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MSN Buys 500,000 Qwest.Net Customers
SEWilco writes: "MSN is expecting to increase its users by 10% in a deal with Baby Bell Qwest. Although the MSFT press release does not specifically state it, according to Mercury News and Reuters/Yahoo a later conference call confirmed that Qwest.Net will be replaced by MSN service.
MSN said
it will 'strike deals with companies that own their own infrastructure rather than wholesalers'
in a PC World article pointed at by a recent DSL discussion. You can't strike a much bigger deal than this, unless you get all of a Baby Bell's voice customers too." A few readers have written in unhappy that they're about to become MSN customers, too.
Our testing indicates XML to be slower by a factor of about 10x over Java binary equivalents. It only makes sense if you think about byte count, parsing, etc. A whole infrastructure built around XML will indeed require lots of bandwidth. A better choice is negotiated, escalating protocols; think modem protocol handshake. Some ORB vendors (e.g. IONA) supported both IIOP and proprietary protocols and/or transports. Handshaking is then used to select the most appropriate choice between partners and network topology. The results are astounding, like 10 to 100x (for ANYs). So, count on .NET to be very slow and require lots of bandwidth.
yes, one of those monolithic Linux ISP's, oh wait, there are none.
I was never very impressed with Qwest.net anyway, but now that it's going to be part of MSN, it's _really_ time to switch ISPs. The part of the press release that scares me is the line about how Qwest and Microsoft share a common vision .
A little more info. Not all DSL customers were sold. It seems they only sold their personal customers not the business customers.
Here is an excerpt from an email I received from Qwest.
Qwest Internet Solutions Technical Support wrote:
Hello,
Thank you for contacting QWEST Internet Services Technical Support.
You are inquiring about MSN and Qwest partnership.
On April 26, 2001, Qwest and Microsoft announced an agreement, which will soon offer the benefits of MSN to Qwest's In-Region (14 state) customers.
Details of this arrangement are still being worked out.
All existing Qwest.net customers will receive e-mail notification about the agreement in approximately 30 to 60 days. Full implementation is not expected for 60-90 days.
Qwest.net Internet Access Analog, DSL Select and DSL Deluxe customers are included in the agreement.
Qwest.net OfficeWorks and OfficeWorks LAN, and DSL Professional customers are not included in the agreement.
Our relationship with MSN will enhance our ability to provide Internet access to our customers.
Thank you,
Qwest Internet Services Technical Support
This isn't the first time Microsoft has bought a competitor and "SLAMMED" users to their MSN service. Anybody who bought a DELL computer in the last year or so with DELLNET ISP option was switched to MSN without recourse this past January. Branding is so important to Microsoft that they wouldn't even let people preserve their "dellnet.com" email addresses. They forced all users to adopt MSN account names.
Everybody I know who was slammed by this switched to other service providers, as they hated their MSN service.
Here are your recent submissions to Slashdot, and their status within the system:
When did they become a Baby Bell?
The revolution will NOT be televised.
I work for a company that buys and sells mortgages.
:)
I don't see anything odd about that.
Ack, that came out wrong. I meant to say they bought U.S. West which was a Baby Bell.
Qwest is not a Baby Bell. Qwest bought U.S. West to become a Baby Bell.
Do what I said in another post: if you don't like it, leave the company and get service elsewhere.
And pray that they don't sell you out to Microsoft as well.
Jay (=
Let the Microsoft bashing begin..
Sometimes I think it would be interesting if Slashdot would post a Microsoft (bashing) story with Microsoft's name omitted ("An Unknown Company" or something less suspicious) initially, let the posts roll in, then reveal the truth and see how quickly opinions change.
I'm guessing that if some large Linux based ISP picked up the entire userbase of another (NT based, perhaps?) ISP it would be declared a "Victory for Linux" etc., etc.
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Hey I guess if your service is not good enough to attract customers; buying customers is an option??
Somehow that does not sound right, how much did they pay and how long will X number of customers have to stay to pay back the investment?
Who owns your data?
.Net will require TONS of bandwidth. Microsoft seems to expect that MSN will be the primary carrier for thier vision of the future. Not only will you pay them for the hotel (.Net), you'll be paying them for the trip (MSN) too.
No one can accuse them of not being shrewd.
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
I currently use Qwest.net, being the LEC I figured they would be around. I switched after Reflex Communications ended up exploding in chapter 7 flaming death. This will probably make me switch my domain, internet service, etc. to another DSL provider. I have problems with this, and will not give any money to "that company".
I surpised no-one has mentioned this, but doesn't anyone think this purchase was made to help boost the XBox?
I'm sure when it comes out, all MSN customers will received plenty of advertising about the XBox, and how great life will be with an XBox and a DSL line. I'm sure MSN will be tuned to work really well with the XBox (or vice versa).
A darker side to that theory is that MSN customers mighthave a rough time connecting a PS2 through the MSN network.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
For one thing, the XBox probably will work best with MSN as I imagine they'll host a lot of XBox related servers there. That's the kind of tuning I was imagining, I described that badly. So, yes, you'll get lower ping times because most servers you use will probably be MSN hosted.
One of the big selling points of the XBox is that it has a built in ethernet connection, so to help it be successful they need as many high speed customers as possible. By buying Qwest.net customers, you also get most Qwest DSL subscribers who in turn will be told the XBox is built and supported to work under MSN (who is now their ISP).
As for the PS2 scenario, I don't think it likley either. It is a possibility though to deprioritize traffice going to PS2 specific game servers or at the very least not caring much about how traffic routes outside MSN. Who knows, perhaps that's SOP there anyway.
I didn't mean to make it sound so conspiritorial, I just wanted to point out that the XBox to succeed would like to have a lot of high bandwith users and this is one way to get closer to them.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You're thinking of SPRINT -- SP:"Southern Pacific", a railroad.
I really hope that I am avoiding the usual MS bashing but aren't they suspiciously getting into everything?
Operatings systems, peripherals, TV networks, ISPs, Gaming consoles....
I think that this is all kind of scary. It's bad enough that they have the desktop OS market in their pocket but now they are trying to get everything in thir control.
I can't believe that the majority of people haven't yet become distrustful of MS. The average person doesn't trust the government, or the company that they work for or even friends and neighbors, but they blindly follow wherever microsoft leads them.
My faith in humanity is decreasing everyday.
Just so no one is confused about this, you do not have to use Qwest.net as your ISP just because you have a Qwest DSL line. You can pick from a myriad of other providers. Check here for a list of other providers.
What bothers me about this is that there's no info from Qwest as to what's happening except for a press release and no info on what's going to change (pricing, policies, etc.) People on the qwest newsgroups have to sit there speculating as to what the wording of the press release means, since no one in the company will answer any customer questions.
Don't you realize, though, that roadrunner is owned by aol now?
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
I am Locutus of Borg. Resistance is Futile. Your life, as it has been, is over. From this time forward, you will service us.
--
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
I have Qwest DSL/ISP for about a year now, and for the past 2 months I've been getting a staggering amount of DNS errors. I often have to click on a link twice(once for DNS error, twice to get the connection).
My work uses Qwest too for internet access, and the same problem exists. Argh.
How much does an internet customer go for these days?
:-)
That depends. What do you have in mind?
A dingo ate my sig...
Anyone have any good reccommendations for DSL ISP service in Denver? I'm thinking of Front Range Internet or someone, but I'm not sure who to go to. Who do you reccommend?
Hope some of those customers aren't in Maryland, doesn't MSN use Passport? Guess they are SOL
:)
Quest has already screwed us. We noticed that they were over-charging us for long distance, so we switched to ATT. Next month we get slapped with a $20 "disconnect" fee. Boycott Qwest, they deserve it
bash-2.04$
bash-2.04$
bash-2.04$yes "Don't you hate dialup connections?"| write USERNAME
Phone companies are not allowed to "buy out customers" and inform them that they have to conform to the new bell. ISPs shouldn't follow suit.
What, you didn't notice Qwest buying out US West last year? Funny, seemed like you were familiar with Qwest there for a second. My mistake.
Apparently you're not noticing the difference. Qwest bought USWest. They bought the whole company. One company bought another company.
This deal isn't Qwest's deal with USWest. MSN bought THE CUSTOMERS, not the business.
Alright, here's a Qwest.net customer for you.
We've been with them for a year and a half for dial-up. They've been GREAT in being a reliable dial-up ISP (49 out of 50 calls go through, have averaged a 45.6 kbps connection, never a busy signal), and payment's cheap ($15 flat).
We finally decided to go broadband...640k ADSL line, and service has been just fine (aside from no support for Linux with their internal modem). As for support, they suck (not even their managers know what G.Lite is, and it took the head manager to diagnose a problem that a line technician could have fixed in two minutes, or so he said). But the line's just been fine.
But I'm sorry, I'm not going to be dragged around like some schmuk who's forced to go where they drag us. It is completely bogus that they feel that because they have a regional monopoly, they can do crap like this. I'm not a cable fan, and quite frankly, I don't want to have to dish out $220 for a bloody cable modem, but I don't want to be a corporate pawn either (besides, I'm sure the cable company here would love to offer a "anti-Microsoft" deal for about 1,000 DSL customers who don't want to be pulled around in such a way...the regional guys will actually go out of their way to do stuff like that).
Phone companies are not allowed to "buy out customers" and inform them that they have to conform to the new bell. ISPs shouldn't follow suit.
I don't know what city you live in, but apparenlty you think that, like where you probably live, the places Qwest services have broadband "options."
Sorry, but Qwest services the upper-midwest. Do you know what broadband options are up here? Qwest. That's it. If you wanted broadband (and it was a pretty good deal too), you had to go with Qwest. North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, South Dakota, Nebraska, Colorado...there aren't any other options for most of this region.
MSN and Qwest are taking advantage of a regional monopoly. Don't get me wrong, this isn't hate mail towards Microsoft...I think that it's absolutely bogus that AOL and Time Warner are trying to do the same crap.
Here's the problem: Big Businesses KNOW that broadband IS the future. The internet is the future, and the faster the internet, the larger business potential. Just like the telco back in the 1930's, businesses ARE TRYING TO MAKE A MONOPOLY out of broadband. That's what wrong. That's what I want stopped.
That is an excellent point, my friend, and rings the bell of my following contention: if you ever let yourself be serviced, either dail-up or dsl, by USWorst or its happy owner, you're a patsy deserving little sympathy. Its one thing to be forced to use their plumbing....
Although, to be honest, dude, one wonders what part of the twentieth century one would have had to sleep through to be surprised that consumers and a commodity. Been to any movies lately?
illegitimii non ingravare
I switched from AOL to MSN in a rebate deal buying a computer almost 2 years ago. The MSN service has been decent, and quite frankly, it has its benefits.
You're not tied to a Proprietary software connection as intrusive as AOL's software (read all the "if you have AOL or WEBTV, click here for your page") and you can finally use Internet Explorer's most recent edition to browse, plus something AOL won't offer: POP3 mail. The automation brought by outlook or your own choice of mail client is noticeable, though getting a virus through Outlook is easier than through AOL's HTML implementation of email.
The connections are stable but I was outraged to find only 2 lines for all of us 7 million users in New York City. They added about 5 more in December but I'm still a little worried about people from small towns getting local lines.
Like AOL, MSN uses a proprietary dialer, so my windows scripting functionality is a little struck. I don't know why you can't just use the system dialer but must monitor the user's every move and send in ads and things through proprietary and unbreakable programs. But almost every company big enough for me to have heard of it in the NorthEast has more and more of the qualities of MSN and AOL. So the choices aren't any better. I'd just wish MSN didn't charge the same rate as AOL since I get a few more busy lines with them.
PS: For the love of God, don't use the new MSN explorer! There's a reason why MSN version number jumped from v2.6 to v6.0 in the blink of an eye, and some of the features MSN used to have are killed. Grab your old MSN 2 CD and install that to use my features. You probably won't know anyone on your block with MSN anyway, so you don't need MSN's IM program or other time killers that [young] people have grown used to.
I hope this is helpful. If you don't currently have a large ISP, then a lot of what I said about MSN you might already be enjoying.
"Wireless : LAN
I was so shocked when I read this, that I spewed Mountain Dew all over my monitor. I've been a reasonably content Qwest DSL customer for over a year now. The service has been pretty reliable, and I've had only a few minor complaints. The possibility that MSN (or any company for that matter) could buy my internet subscription without my consent is both chilling and infuriating. I'm also a former MSN internet help desk employee, and I couldn't get out of the job fast enough. I got fed up with the "Support Boundaries" that prevented me from going out of my to help a customer. It was the only job I've had that actually made me feel dirty. Slashdot's Bill-of-Borg icon is all to close to the truth sometimes.
"I'm making perfect sense, you're just not keeping up."
First off, you're not tied to using Qwest as the ISP service. You can choose any DSL compatible ISP with Qwest DSL. So if you really dislike Qwest then check for a local ISP and switch. If they tell you switching ISPs is going to cost you then go to your local Public Utilities Commision. Get enough people going there and you won't have to worry. Qwest was sued and settled out of court with most ISPs over marketing and lead time practices for DSL. The ILEC is supposed to give all unregulated companies an equal standing and oppertunity. Generally speaking Qwest does an Fair (C+ work at best) job at it.
Where Qwest does have to worry is combined billing. The Mercury news reports indicated they could be putting the MSN bill in the phone bill. For those who don't follow these things, U S West before the merger told all the ISPs and Web Hosting Companies that they had 30 days to get their customers off combined billing. By letting MSN do this they now are offering an exclusive unbundled service to someone. My guess is they will get sued over this.
No, they're not. I work for a medium sized ISP, and we frequently buy smaller ISPs that can't make it on their own. We already have the infrastructure so assimilating them won't cost us as much as staying in business separately would cost them. But the deal is just like a company buying any other company. If you buy something from one company and another company buys them, you call the new company for warranty issues. It's definitely less odd than banks selling peoples' mortgages to each other.
Are you kidding? MSN has excellent customer service. After calling their support number, I found the touch-tone service menu easy to navigate. Would you believe they have an option specifically for quitting their service? It only took me a few minutes.
Qwest (the phone company) is currently one of the worlds largest DSL providers. Qwest (in a move that is of questionable legality) use their government regulated monopoly on phone services to push their non-regulated ISP business.
One of the big reasons that customers choose Qwest as an ISP for DSL is that they are told, either explicitly, or implicitly, by sales people, that this combinations of services is neccesary (which of course it is not).
With Qwest.net soon being part of MSN, it will lose one of its big selling points for DSL.
Also, DSL customers who were Qwest ISP customers will have to go back to making twice as many phone calls to get their DSL installed...both to Qwest to get the hardware installed, and to MSN to get the ISP side. In other words, Qwest is losing one of its big selling point (actually maybe the only one) - the ease of use from "bundled" services.
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
C'mon, no one's going to complain about how FreeBSD isn't free?! Let's get a big GPL rant going, it'll be fun.
They then slashed prices to approximentally HALF of what local ISPs were charing, which then seriously hurt local businesses. We have around a half-dozen local ISPs that support the San Joaquin Valley. The university has little cost to run the ISP as local university support staff ran the network. A real David and Goliath saga.
So much for getting decent service for the mom-and-pop shops that can offer other features, like static IPs, dedicated and leased lines. They've just been quashed by a low-margin high profit university.
-Pat
Microsoft makes world domination push with China partnership
.Net strategy, the Xbox video game console and the wired home, require them to have lots of citizens to buy them without qustion. For competitive reasons, it's in Microsoft's interest to do it quickly.
Original Mong: JON FORTT/Mercury News
Microsoft will soon make another big push into the world domination business, after a five-year deal struck with China. Microsoft and China announced Thursday that Microsoft will be the exclusive everything provider to China's citizens. China is home to serves more than 5 billion citizens, roughy 30% of the world's population.
China will discontinue its own political domination. About 5,000 of China's citizens get direct access to this domination through fear every day, either through subjugation or spying.
Specific terms of the deal were not disclosed. But as part of the deal, China promised to do away with the Tebitian problem. Microsoft also gets first crack at invading Taiwan next quarter, who will have the option of switching over to MSDN (Microsoft Domination Network) or finding a new ally. China projects that the deal could bring the country as much as $31.5 billion over five years.
So far Microsoft's efforts in the world domination arena have fallen flat. Former partner North Korea has filed for protection from the United States, and Microsoft's co-branded MS-Cuba program has not done much business. All together, said Expansion and Marketing Manager Bob Visse, Microsoft has fewer than two billion customers acquired through world domination.
The deal with China, which could turn out to be the largest an country has made with a company, could be the beginning of a larger trend. Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer said he is eager to strike similar deals with other countries, he also went on to state that Russia is pretty close to China, although he declined to comment on any plans to buy Russia.
Plus, Microsoft has to plan ahead. AOL Time Warner, which is both the biggest media companies with a large user base, has a clearer path to domintating the rest of the world, with their recent acquisitions of Canada and South America.
For other reasons, it is in Microsoft's interest to push the adoption of it's agenda. Many of Microsoft's plans, including the consumer segment of its
``We think this is going to be just a super-attractive opportunity for us to switch the disenfranchised Chinese citizens who are in a evil beurocratic communist country, to one that is owned by Microsoft,'' Visse said.
China's territory includes more than 20 miles out to sea, but not according to the United States.
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Hammer of Truth
How can a company buy customers? It's a strange world we're living in...
Qwest's customers who do not wish to be MSN's customers should demand full refund of the equipment and/or remainder of lease contract, or a no-cost (to the user) transfer to another provider.
MSN should learn how to obtain and maintain a clientelle of their own and not resort to buying them off the market, like some comodity.
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Not only is this a reduction in choice for users, but it's also a probable rollback of free software. As this Slashdot story mentioned, USWest.net presented slides showing thier extensive use of FreeBSD.
Of course, this is embarassing stuff to Microsoft, especially on their own systems.
Even though here in AZ uunet seemed to service the MSN dial-ups, I can't help but wonder if MS won't wipe out the FreeBSD infrastructure USWest.net (Qwest.net) has in place.
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In a hundred-mile march,
Those of you in other Qwest cities, there's a good chance that there is somebody like that where you live. Look around a little, and post it here if you find one. :)
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Big fucking deal. Switch providers. I was unhappy when Time Warner (my cable provider) merged with AOL, but I didn't complain. I switched to Comcast (and got a nice cable modem deal in the process.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
linkage from the horse's mouth.
But hey - at least AOL is planning to stop using Internet Explorer and instead use their own product, Codename: Komodo/AOL 7.0 (no relation to ActiveState's Mozilla IDE). They may even decide to release an 'official' Linux product at the same time.
I think this is good news for everybody.
*** I am the real stylewagon
for the static IP address you can get with a DSL connection. I'm not sure why it matters what DNS name your ISP uses if you run your own mail / web server...
Yes, I know about TZO as well, but come on - I'm only 14,000 feet from the CO! A static IP is one of the main reasons for buying a house so close to my mother in law...
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Never mind, you're coming with us.
"Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental." -Slashdot
As a forced-customer of MSN(I can't really change what my Dad does can I?), here is some useful information if you are forced to use full-fledged MSN Username != Username . Username = MSN/username they want you to use the special client software for windows, and are reluctant to share this News and Email are unreadable in non-outlook environments as far as i know. this is due to lack of NTLM/SPA support which is required.
I don't think takeover by MSN is anywhere near as scary as being taken over by AOL. MSN gives clean IP dialtone, AOL locks you into their own private prison and bombards you with pop up ads. There may be an MSN for morons to compete with AOL these days, but at least you get the choice.
What I am worried about is if my AT&T cable modem goes AOL. I can't get DSL at the moment in my neighbourhood - otherwise I would have hooked that up and got a static IP address. I guess that if I get AOL'ed I will simply have to pay for a T1 and see if I can rent my basement space out to folk who want to co-loc.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
I wonder how this will affect Qwest overall. For those that don't know the story about Qwest, if I'm not mistaken, the company was working with a railraod company, and laying fiber alongside the tracks of the railroad, when the internet was in its infancy stage.
;\
Anyways one thing I know is Qwest owns a hell of a lot of dark fiber, and I know MS would love to get their hands on some of it for their MS.NET world. I wonder if Qwest unloaded because they were losing money, or could this be the staging for a future rival to AOL-TW. Qwest is pumping out about 15+ billion $ so I can't see them needing money that bad now.
3 days till launch
360 degrees of Karma
I've never used MSN, nor have I known anyone who's used it. I realize it is a MS product, but can anyone give me an unbiased opinion on MSN? Does it suck or is it decent?
Since they *did* buy Qwest, the service can't really get shittier...
Dragging people kicking and screaming into reality since 1996.
1) I think MS is going to more or less leave the service unchanged, they'd be foolish not to. Remember, home users aren't the only ones on Qwest DSL, there's plenty of bussiness class lines too. I'm guessing that when you subscribe to qwest.net residential service it will now come with a warm and fuzzy MSN welcome CD that will setup and configure it all for you and install all the silly MS features like MSN mesanger if you like, but nothing will change other than that. As is, they send you a CD with a customized version of netscape and so on, but you don't have to install it, I never did. The hardware is just a plain Cisco 678 DSL router,it doesn't care what's on your system.
2) If the MSN service sucks, we can just switch over. Qwest.net is not mandidated with a Qwest DSL line (that would break regulations), you are free to choose other ISPs and there are around 15 others in Tucson where I live. I'm with qwest.net because I feel they do the best job but The River or Dakotacom would be more than happy to take my bussiness if Qwest/MSN start doing a bad job.
3) Supposing the whole thing really goes to hell, we can always just switch off to another kind of broadband. Cox (or whomever your local cable provider is ) offers cable modems, Sprint offers wireless, and so on. Supposing the overall service gets real bad, it's real easy to jump ship.
Basically, I think this move is more centred around the technophobe/AOL type person. Qwest DSL never was very friendly, and MSN will help that image. However, I seriously doubt they'll do anything silly to harm power users/bussinesses.
OH and for those of you that think Microsoft will spy on it's customers, get real. IF you're really worried go get a copy of Tiny Personal Firewall and it'll verify it.
I see.
[Okay boys, they want to go that-a-way, so that's where to install the curving runway to herd them into our pen.]
--
No disagreement here, but things do get to be a tad predictable on /. at times, with me sharing some of the guilt.
"Anonymous Coward" is for whistleblowers, not unpopular opinions.
I mean I sign up with ISP. Don't I have a contract to stay with that ISP.
But that ISP is allowed to "sell" me to another ISP.
One day we will either be Microsoft or AOL. I am so unhappy about the lack of choices NOW. A company that big, very often, gives BAD service and even worse support. Joy.
The internet is no longer enjoyable; it's depressing.
I use verizon as my DSL provider, and when you sign up, you choose a "GSP," which is either qwest or some other company I don't remember. I recall at the time being told by someone that it didn't matter which one I chose, so I think I chose qwest. Anyone know what kind of impact this deal will have on someone in my situation?