Posted by
michael
on from the buffer-overflow dept.
tuiterwyk writes: "There's an article here on Techweb about manufacturers plans to give pacemakers and defibrillation devices internet capabilities. BSOD takes on a whole new meaning...." And so does 'denial of service attack'.
McHealthCare (tm)
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2
So now if I have a pacemaker or other implant, and I feel chest pain, I can go to some website which will tell me I'm just fine.... great, another way for doctors to evade any contact with their patients.
This whole "healthcare-as-big-business" mentality is really terrible.
When the revolution comes, only Libertarians and Randites will have to use HMO's.
I guess it helps the patient rather than disturbing them; monitoring data can be accessed both by the patient and the doctor, at the end it means that one just goes to the doctor when it is necessary, and that the doctor has much more data available in case that it is needed.
The last thing I would like to do in case of a long-term illness is to go periodically to the doctor if I can prevent it by some kind of remote diagnosis.
Re:Article scores -1, Flamebait
by
maggard
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· Score: 5
Pacemakers generally maintain logs & are externally programmable, heve been so for years. This is used to fine tune their responses, to check the battery state, etc. They don't run an OS, at least not in the sense of Win/Mac/'nix, they're dedicated purpose devices.
There is no wire protruding out of a person's body, all communication is done via a small radio transmitter/reciever and a dedicated piece of hardware (though doubtless this could be duplicated on a PC.)
The pacemaker would presumably report in a two-stage process. Either a dedicated-purpose device or a reciever/transmitter (possibly connected serially/USB) would use a coded signal to cue the pacemaker to broadcast it's logs. These would be recorded on the dedicated device or a home PC and then transmitted online to the central site.
There the records (I'm guessing here) could be analyzed for warnnig signs, dangerous trends, etc. Likely if they exceed some threshold a flag will be set and a specialist will review the information.
I can't imagine any scenario where the pace-maker would ever transmit directly to an online site; there simply isn't the power available for that sort of direct telemetry. Therefore no sort of direct atttack, DOS or otherwise would be possible.
On the outside chance that remote reprogramming of the pacemaker were allowed I would be concerned, and of course there should be concerns over the security of one's uploaded logs, but from what's reported the whole situation seems very safe if possibly not entirely private.
Frankly I think you would do well to invest the 5 minutes to do a search, read a pacemaker FAQ & answer the rest of your own questions on your own.
-- I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
As someone who has a pacemaker...
by
DavidTC
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· Score: 5
...let me tell you a little about them.
Many people don't know how they transmit and receive data. They use magnets. (Which, BTW, was the whole point behind the microwave prohibition, cause early microwaves spun off magnetic fields like crazy. Nowdays, microwaves have stopped that, and pacemakers only respond to very strong magnets. Still can't go inside power planets with big generators.)
Anyway, they have a little handheld device used to program the pacemakers using magnetic fields. They can send and receive data, obviously using some sort of modulation.
Now, pacemakers have all sorts of data that can programmed, like 'threshholds', which is how small a voltage in the patient's heart triggers a real voltage, and various other stuff, and they give out all sorts of data like how much battery life they have and how often they get triggered, and even patient's average heartbeat.
Now, all this data is completely unaccessable to me. Forget reprogramming, I can't even check the batteries. It would be nice to be able to access this information, but I have a few questions...first of all...WHAT THE HELL TOOK THEM SO LONG? Seriously. They go from no access at all to remote telemetry? Sheesh.
How about just giving me a handheld device to access it? Or a dialup phone access. I mean, we'd need a handheld device to hold against it anyway. Why haven't they come out with the thing earlier, to let us read it, without a computer link? Wouldn't have to be much, simply a 'magnetic modulator' and a tiny LED screen.
-David T. C.
-- If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Seriously, this is just ridiculously stupid. There are some applications where a dedicated device is the most ideal device. Simple tools for a simple job, and there is much less chance of system failure.
Re:Article scores -1, Flamebait
by
sharkey
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· Score: 2
Gives a whole new meaning to, "Just finger me to get my.plan!"
--
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Re:look at the applications...
by
CokeBear
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· Score: 3
I can personally see where this has huge benefits. For example, if my Grandmother was in the hospital in critical condition, I would feel alot easier knowing I can check that she's OK anytime during the day by simply going to a web site. This frees up time for families with sick relatives and allows them to do such things as go to work to pay for the bills.
But what is the corrolary to this? When grandma is dead, do you want to learn about it from a website?
-- Reality has a liberal bias
Re:This stuff isn't funny
by
tomreagan
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· Score: 2
I don't disagree with the idea that death needs a degree of lightening up, but that wasn't what this was. Many of these comments were directed squarely at the people who have these devices. That isn't funny - the circumstances which led to the implantation of the device were beyond their control.
Further, death as an abstract concept is funny. But in general, I don't think that the death of specific people in sad circumstances beyond their control is funny.
Regardless, these jokes weren't that funny anyways, and were more rude than anything else.
My father has one of these devices, and being able to have the cardiologists monitor and check the status of his ICD after or immediately before an event would be a godsend.
These stupid jokes about "fat slobs" and "people having crash carts in their chests" and "rebooting someone's heart" and "ping grandma" are all really funny, until you realize that these devices save people's lives, and people really die without them. I'm really disgusted that people find this stuff so funny. Though I generally consider my taste in humor to be pretty wide and esoteric, this is sick shit. That's like making fun of people with Alzheimer's or cancer - imagine a remote chemo device, leading to "haha, reboot his tumor!"
I am just disgusted, and I feel the need to go wash my hands.
I agree. God forbid that anyone would ever make fun of something serious.
</sarcasm>
The sad part with people being offended by others' jokes is that they usually don't understand that the jokes are in fact... jokes. That somebody's saying something funny about something is not an indication that he does not understand, or care about it. It's just an indication that he's trying to brighten up your day, and you should be fortunate to be able to hear it.
If death is beyond your sense of humour, I feel sad for you, because it is indeed a topic horrible enough to need some brightening up every now and then.
Re:Article scores -1, Flamebait
by
Godeke
·
· Score: 2
Other than being a flippant remark, remember that data is transmitted to a server on the internet, and *that* point is vulnerable to an attack, or spoofing of data from the device, etc. The only life threating thing about that is that it defeats the intent of tranmitting the data in the first place.
Just think, UCITA give companies the right to remotely disable software, I don't want Microsoft or SUN remotely disabling my grandfather's pacemaker because he forgot to pay for his daily licensing fee!!!!
-- Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Contrary to Smartass opinion, this is a good thing
by
BierGuzzl
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· Score: 2
As for security, the data goes to "secured" websites, meaning we've got some sort of encryption going on, and really, who's going to spy on a pacemaker site to see if grandpa Joe's pacemaker is malfunctioning? (RESIST the urge to make a smartass remark here) The pacemaker passes info on to medical professionals who can determine if there's anything wrong with it. This is not a replacement for visiting your doctor, nor is it being presented as such -- it's something that supplements existing tools and is for certain cases only. The article seems to imply that this might be good for people who constantly worry that their pacemaker is broken. This will free up doctor time, reducing medical care costs as well as increasing quality of service that would not have been possible otherwise.
Re:they are out of their fucking minds!
by
sigwinch
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· Score: 2
Is it? If the device communicates on "The Internet" then it has a TCP/IP stack.
If the life critical component is not totally isolated from Internet influences, they are idiots. The only signal going back into the medical equipment should be "please dump data". The engineers who design things like pacemakers are totally in tune with the KISS principle, so this shouldn't be a problem.
and shortly thereafter the deaths when someone ownz the system and turns the cities light system all green simultaneously.
Not a worry: they have relays that pretty much guarantee that 4-way green can never happen. Otherwise people would be killed everytime the timer loses its mind. Of course, an attacker could still screw with the timing and cause gridlock, which means you still need security.
Your message sounds like the beginnings to so many ridiculously unsecure/vulnerable systems out there.
Nah. Define it as insecure right from the start and make the absence of encryption conspicuous. That way there's no false sense of security, which is often a worse problem than mere disclosure of information. Ignoring the low-benefit part means you have more resources and fewer distractions for the important part: digital signatures so that the physician can trust the data. You have to fit security to the application, and not just design in every possible security feature simply because you can.
--
-- Kuro5hin.org: where the good times never end.;-)
Re:they are out of their fucking minds!
by
sigwinch
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· Score: 4
... but it is absurd that it will use the internet, and whoever is thinking that is a good idea should be fired and removed from anything even remotely technical.
This is pure uninformed hysteria, just like the/. story itself. Unless you're using physically-secure data links every step of the way (secure as in no wireless data, ciphers on every physical link, guaranteed QoS, and Marines ready to deploy when the intrusion-detection system finds something), then you're at the mercy of the public data networks. The Internet is not much less reliable than the phone system that supplies 911 emergency telephone services, and diagnostic data from cardiac equipment is rarely time critical anyway.
Sure maybe it'd be nice if these devices had an encrypted bluetooth/802.11
This is just pure ignorance. Heart waveforms aren't secrets and don't need encryption. All that is needed is simple authentication.
--
-- Kuro5hin.org: where the good times never end.;-)
New! Enhance your gameplay with the DirectPace API! Experience blackouts and redouts in your favourite flight simulator! Make those heart-stopping moments in your favourite action or adventure come alive!
The Internet is not much less reliable than the phone system that
supplies 911 emergency telephone services
Umm, no. My phone doesn't go down often at all, same with not being able to reach people due to technical problems. However I have dealt with many network failures, both local and remote (host unreachable, connection timed out, routing loops, dropped packets, etc). I have phone problems less than once a month, excluding my Verizon (ugh) cellphone. I deal with Internet failures every WEEK.
Telephony is way more reliable than the net, unless you are using Voice-over-IP, in which case your phone reliability degrades to that of the net, but that is for another debate.
I'd feel much safer having medically critical communications done over the phone, or be able to use the phone as a backup, rather than relying on a *unreliable) packet-switched network such as the Internet.
-- Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
I guess that's when it'd be time to call an ambulance.
--
NO CARRIER
Why Internet Protocol?
by
Glowing+Fish
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· Score: 2
What is the purpose of this device using the Internet (which I assume means it uses IP/TCP)? IP is for one main purpose, and that is to have a device have a unique identity that can be reached by any other device with ip. The purpose of TCP is so that devices with unreliable connections can talk with each other.
It seems to me that a pacemaker, if it were to communicate, does not need to be public, and shouldn't be travelling over the same insecure communication pathways as other devices. For that matter, even at the physical level, I wouldn't suppose a pacemaker would be travelling over the same physical links that TCP\IP usually uses. In other words, if they want to make a pacemaker remotely monitorable, it would seem the best way to do it would be to build it from the physical layer up with it's own protocols.
-- Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
Re:Why Internet Protocol?
by
Glowing+Fish
·
· Score: 2
You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
Thus the question mark in my post's title.
And, yes, the technicalities of TCP\IP are not something I eat breathe and sleep.
TCP\IP sounds better, but more accuratly, it should be IP\TCP, since TCP is a protocol that goes on top of IP. Of course, I wasn't consistent with this or the direction of my slases.
And yes, the purpose of TCP is to make unreliable connections more reliable. A person does not use TCP to handle serial ports in the back of her computer. TCP is used to make a physically (or otherwise) unreliable network theoretically more reliable. It would not seem that someone would design a remotely controlled pacemaker to run over the same phone, or wireless lines, as a normal internet client would, and therefore it is not going to have to use TCP the same way. Instead of making sure that those packets won't get lost in the shuffle, it would make more sense just to escape the shuffle altogether.
And yes, TCP\IP can run over any physical layer it wants to. Including, as was shown recently, carrier pigeons. I suppose someone could design a Internet Pacemaker over Avian Carriers, but it would seem that it would make more sense to use a physical layer designed specifcally for this purpose. Of course, someone could later run TCP\IP over this physical layer, but again, why would they want to?
-- Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
Article scores -1, Flamebait
by
andyh1978
·
· Score: 4
Medtronic Inc., Minneapolis, demonstrated the Chronicle, an implantable heart-monitoring device now being clinically tested by physicians in applications where it
transmits critical patient information to secure Internet sites.
So how exactly do you get a denial of service attack against a system that only transmits and does not receive or process requests?
How about reporting news without inserting redundant pokes at certain software simply for the shock/sarcasm/controversy value?
Do we really need more things dependent on the internet? I mean, so much already is today, if something happenned to the internet, the economy would be a disaster. Do we want grampa to crash cause he's connected through AOL?
"Right now, we have patients who often must travel two hours just to find out that nothing's wrong."
One of the things I remember from a bicycling book I read in high school was that a mirror could be relied on to tell it's user that it was not safe behind, but never that the road is clear. The same would seem to be true here. I'd trust the unit to tell the doctor that there were problems, but I would probably go into the hospital if it said everything okay and I felt otherwise.
I also wonder what sort of security we're talking about. I would hope the encryption is outside the patient, for easy updating in the event of an exploit. I would also hope that the internet related system is completely isolated and unable to interfere with the more critical aspects of the device.
In Finder, there's a part where a kid telnets into his little systers biological interface. I forget if it was telnet, or if he manipulated her through/dev/something. It was rather interesting to see that it was UNIX. The series also includes lots of plausible AI, genetic manipulation, etc., etc.,. One of the smartest series I have read in a long time. Thought I should mention it, since it is a neat comic that includes this idea of telnetting into people's bio systems.
"Let's test our network connection"
"Ok, ping grandma's pacemaker!"
Talk about being worried when the ping times out...
What I wanna know is, how to hack it to add a larger hard drive and load Linux on it;)
-- --The space between my ears was intentionally left blank--
Re:In case you fall, and can't get up!
by
KarmaBlackballed
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· Score: 2
Why not have a computer that constantly monitors all our vital signs?
How about a company sell these things for parents to have their kids wear? I'm a parent and I might buy one.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~ the real world is much simpler ~~
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--- -- - -
Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
Re:look at the applications...
by
corvi42
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· Score: 2
"I can personally see where this has huge benefits. For example, if my Grandmother was in the hospital in critical condition, I would feel alot easier knowing I can check that she's OK anytime during the day by simply going to a web site. This frees up time for families with sick relatives and allows them to do such things as go to work to pay for the bills."
I don't know about anyone else - but personally I think this is the saddest comment on society that I've seen in a long time. Not only are people so disinterested in their older generation that they shove them off into isolated "communities" to whither and descend into dementia and death, but now you're saying you can't even be bothered to take time out of your working schedule to go visit your grandmother as she dies? That's totally sick and demented.
Sorry Granny, but honestly nobody likes you 'cause you're old and no longer a productive member of the tribe - so we're not going to give your dying hours more attention than a few clicks on a website.
Old people don't want to be stuffed off in retirement communities with lots of senile people. They want to be with their families. They want to have meaningful contact with LUCID people - just like everybody else. But how often have we heard the same thing: no time for granny, put her in a home, no time for little billy let the TV or some strangers raise him. Got to be productive, got to work. And then we wonder why kids grow up to kill each other and people generally feel like society is slipping?
In general people in our society work too much. Never before in the history of mankind have people spent so much time working and considered it normal. Even slaves in the Roman empire had more time off than your average worker today. We're amazingly rich as a society, we have technology that even a few decades ago would only have been fanciful stories - and are we enjoying the benefits of any of it?
Something to think about anyway....
--
There are a thousand forms of subversion, but few can equal the convenience and immediacy of a cream pie -Noel Godin
Re:This could seriously save lives.
by
baptiste
·
· Score: 2
But your DSL line went down so the message can't get out and you die. Your family sues the DSL provider for millions. They go under or start charging huge monthly fees just to cover teh cost of insurance.
I think some internet aware devices are a great idea and this is way better than a refrigerator that emails you when the milk goes bad. But the danger of all new technologies like this is having the lawyers ruin it for everybody.
look at the applications...
by
hyrdra
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· Score: 2
I think this is a great idea. Unlike many others here who are afarid of introducing a public network into critical operating devices, I think the article clears this up pretty well. They're not going to be hosting CNN.com, and the only thing they'll probably do is transmit a keep-alive signal (takes a whole new meaning) to a web server and this is then made available on a secure site which family can monitor.
I can personally see where this has huge benefits. For example, if my Grandmother was in the hospital in critical condition, I would feel alot easier knowing I can check that she's OK anytime during the day by simply going to a web site. This frees up time for families with sick relatives and allows them to do such things as go to work to pay for the bills.
I could also see it being used as a way to rate hospitals. How long has it been since a patient has gone into arrest? How many per day? I could see hospitals advertising their 'uptimes' just as much as is the case with network system stability.
In addition, if the information was de-personalized and made available to the public, researchers and doctors could have access a wealth of data (especially if the devices are trasmitting more than a signal, e.g. heartrate, etc.) to examine regarding conditions, and varying opinions could be generated by many experts by examing data. In a way, you could get a second opinion by just telling your doctor to go look at the log on the web.
I think this is a case where humor got the best of us. Something like this has real possibilities for a wide range of audencies.
--
"I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
Other than the inevitable "Imagine a Beowulf cluster.." jokes, some other fun stuff comes to mind:
Give whole new meaning to "catching a virus".
Easy way to add tons of new nodes to SETI@home.
Would finally make "The Clapper" obsolete ("I've fallen, and I can't get up!")..
Could possibly make a nifty wireless peer-to-peer network at the retirement home.
However, on the downside:
If your ISP goes belly-up, you go belly-up.
-- Torg, come out of the spaceship. Nothing can stop Torg.
Great so ECHELON and Carivore can tell that i look at a lot of porn AND im a lazy slob with have high blood pressure now
-- --rock me like a huricane? NO rock you
This could seriously save lives.
by
metatruk
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· Score: 3
Imagine you have a heart condition. You're at home, and all of a sudden, you have a heart attack. This system notifies your medical care provider, which then instantly relays the information to 911, who then sends paramedics to your house to save you.
Or similar devices could be implanted in patients who have other illnesses, severe epilepsy perhaps? Respitory problems?
We could see a whole new line of devices that would be able to remotely monitor patients' health. Daily data could be compiled into a databse, so doctors can review organ operation when a problem comes up. Not all patients can give reliable information to their doctors either, Espescially the elderly:
"Have you been having problems breathing?"
"I'm not sure, I don't really remember"
could become "I see you've been having problems breathing, here's something I can do to help..."
I hope to see these devices appear more and more, because frankly, I think it's a good idea.
These depend on a server actually being up to trasmit to. I guess someone could DoS attack those servers, affecting patients by doctors not having the critical information in time. Which kinda supports michaels story comment, then again maybe not.
Slashdot Mirror
So now if I have a pacemaker or other implant, and I feel chest pain, I can go to some website which will tell me I'm just fine.... great, another way for doctors to evade any contact with their patients. This whole "healthcare-as-big-business" mentality is really terrible. When the revolution comes, only Libertarians and Randites will have to use HMO's.
There is no wire protruding out of a person's body, all communication is done via a small radio transmitter/reciever and a dedicated piece of hardware (though doubtless this could be duplicated on a PC.)
The pacemaker would presumably report in a two-stage process. Either a dedicated-purpose device or a reciever/transmitter (possibly connected serially/USB) would use a coded signal to cue the pacemaker to broadcast it's logs. These would be recorded on the dedicated device or a home PC and then transmitted online to the central site.
There the records (I'm guessing here) could be analyzed for warnnig signs, dangerous trends, etc. Likely if they exceed some threshold a flag will be set and a specialist will review the information.
I can't imagine any scenario where the pace-maker would ever transmit directly to an online site; there simply isn't the power available for that sort of direct telemetry. Therefore no sort of direct atttack, DOS or otherwise would be possible.
On the outside chance that remote reprogramming of the pacemaker were allowed I would be concerned, and of course there should be concerns over the security of one's uploaded logs, but from what's reported the whole situation seems very safe if possibly not entirely private.
Frankly I think you would do well to invest the 5 minutes to do a search, read a pacemaker FAQ & answer the rest of your own questions on your own.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Anyway, they have a little handheld device used to program the pacemakers using magnetic fields. They can send and receive data, obviously using some sort of modulation.
Now, pacemakers have all sorts of data that can programmed, like 'threshholds', which is how small a voltage in the patient's heart triggers a real voltage, and various other stuff, and they give out all sorts of data like how much battery life they have and how often they get triggered, and even patient's average heartbeat.
Now, all this data is completely unaccessable to me. Forget reprogramming, I can't even check the batteries. It would be nice to be able to access this information, but I have a few questions...first of all...WHAT THE HELL TOOK THEM SO LONG? Seriously. They go from no access at all to remote telemetry? Sheesh.
How about just giving me a handheld device to access it? Or a dialup phone access. I mean, we'd need a handheld device to hold against it anyway. Why haven't they come out with the thing earlier, to let us read it, without a computer link? Wouldn't have to be much, simply a 'magnetic modulator' and a tiny LED screen.
-David T. C.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Didn't we already have an April First this year?
Seriously, this is just ridiculously stupid. There are some applications where a dedicated device is the most ideal device. Simple tools for a simple job, and there is much less chance of system failure.
Gives a whole new meaning to, "Just finger me to get my .plan!"
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Oh my God! They kill -9'ed Kenny!
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
But what is the corrolary to this? When grandma is dead, do you want to learn about it from a website?
Reality has a liberal bias
I don't disagree with the idea that death needs a degree of lightening up, but that wasn't what this was. Many of these comments were directed squarely at the people who have these devices. That isn't funny - the circumstances which led to the implantation of the device were beyond their control.
Further, death as an abstract concept is funny. But in general, I don't think that the death of specific people in sad circumstances beyond their control is funny.
Regardless, these jokes weren't that funny anyways, and were more rude than anything else.
My father has one of these devices, and being able to have the cardiologists monitor and check the status of his ICD after or immediately before an event would be a godsend.
These stupid jokes about "fat slobs" and "people having crash carts in their chests" and "rebooting someone's heart" and "ping grandma" are all really funny, until you realize that these devices save people's lives, and people really die without them. I'm really disgusted that people find this stuff so funny. Though I generally consider my taste in humor to be pretty wide and esoteric, this is sick shit. That's like making fun of people with Alzheimer's or cancer - imagine a remote chemo device, leading to "haha, reboot his tumor!"
I am just disgusted, and I feel the need to go wash my hands.
Other than being a flippant remark, remember that data is transmitted to a server on the internet, and *that* point is vulnerable to an attack, or spoofing of data from the device, etc. The only life threating thing about that is that it defeats the intent of tranmitting the data in the first place.
Sig under construction since 1998.
Where's the any key??? ... What's STL?
------
I'm a C++ guru
Now we'll have an influx of PKI vendors for packemakers. Better yet: pacemaker-incidents@securityfocus.com
Want Root?
joke...
you know, as in, not serious, not to be taken literally, etc...
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Just think, UCITA give companies the right to remotely disable software, I don't want Microsoft or SUN remotely disabling my grandfather's pacemaker because he forgot to pay for his daily licensing fee!!!!
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
As for security, the data goes to "secured" websites, meaning we've got some sort of encryption going on, and really, who's going to spy on a pacemaker site to see if grandpa Joe's pacemaker is malfunctioning? (RESIST the urge to make a smartass remark here) The pacemaker passes info on to medical professionals who can determine if there's anything wrong with it. This is not a replacement for visiting your doctor, nor is it being presented as such -- it's something that supplements existing tools and is for certain cases only. The article seems to imply that this might be good for people who constantly worry that their pacemaker is broken. This will free up doctor time, reducing medical care costs as well as increasing quality of service that would not have been possible otherwise.
I sure hope they won't be using cellphones to upload the data to the website.
Hey, for people who need to be given that electric jolt of life, they can have a built in crash cart!
I forgot to pay my AOL bill.. arghh
-- ;-)
Kuro5hin.org: where the good times never end.
-- ;-)
Kuro5hin.org: where the good times never end.
New! Enhance your gameplay with the DirectPace API!
Experience blackouts and redouts in your favourite flight simulator!
Make those heart-stopping moments in your favourite action or adventure come alive!
(Medical insurance not included.)
Of course! Just watch:
Of course, that's Solaris' output for ping...most OS's don't really make it so obvious whether the patient is doing well.
Umm, no. My phone doesn't go down often at all, same with not being able to reach people due to technical problems. However I have dealt with many network failures, both local and remote (host unreachable, connection timed out, routing loops, dropped packets, etc). I have phone problems less than once a month, excluding my Verizon (ugh) cellphone. I deal with Internet failures every WEEK.
Telephony is way more reliable than the net, unless you are using Voice-over-IP, in which case your phone reliability degrades to that of the net, but that is for another debate.
I'd feel much safer having medically critical communications done over the phone, or be able to use the phone as a backup, rather than relying on a *unreliable) packet-switched network such as the Internet.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
$ ping Kyle
Kyle is alive.
$ ping Stan
Stan is alive.
$ ping Kenny
No response from Kenny.
I guess that's when it'd be time to call an ambulance.
NO CARRIER
What is the purpose of this device using the Internet (which I assume means it uses IP/TCP)? IP is for one main purpose, and that is to have a device have a unique identity that can be reached by any other device with ip. The purpose of TCP is so that devices with unreliable connections can talk with each other.
It seems to me that a pacemaker, if it were to communicate, does not need to be public, and shouldn't be travelling over the same insecure communication pathways as other devices. For that matter, even at the physical level, I wouldn't suppose a pacemaker would be travelling over the same physical links that TCP\IP usually uses. In other words, if they want to make a pacemaker remotely monitorable, it would seem the best way to do it would be to build it from the physical layer up with it's own protocols.
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
How about reporting news without inserting redundant pokes at certain software simply for the shock/sarcasm/controversy value?
Right. And that would happen... when? MS or Sun's OS on a pacemaker? Right....
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Do we really need more things dependent on the internet? I mean, so much already is today, if something happenned to the internet, the economy would be a disaster. Do we want grampa to crash cause he's connected through AOL?
Just a thought.
One of the things I remember from a bicycling book I read in high school was that a mirror could be relied on to tell it's user that it was not safe behind, but never that the road is clear. The same would seem to be true here. I'd trust the unit to tell the doctor that there were problems, but I would probably go into the hospital if it said everything okay and I felt otherwise. I also wonder what sort of security we're talking about. I would hope the encryption is outside the patient, for easy updating in the event of an exploit. I would also hope that the internet related system is completely isolated and unable to interfere with the more critical aspects of the device.
In Finder, there's a part where a kid telnets into his little systers biological interface. I forget if it was telnet, or if he manipulated her through /dev/something. It was rather interesting to see that it was UNIX. The series also includes lots of plausible AI, genetic manipulation, etc., etc.,. One of the smartest series I have read in a long time. Thought I should mention it, since it is a neat comic that includes this idea of telnetting into people's bio systems.
One of the finder issues is free to view online. No, doesn't feature what I was describing.
I'm sure that others have thought of this before, but hey. I think other nerds would like this comic. (News for Nerds, News that Matters.)
Help, help!! This is the big one! The script kiddies are at it again.
(switch to ER scene)
Clear! (ping!) Don't time out on me!!!
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"Remember, your friends will stab you in the back for the price of an Extra Value Meal."
"For success, it is essential you have Thunderball Fists." "I can have such a thing?" "That's right. Thunderball Fists."
"Let's test our network connection" ;)
"Ok, ping grandma's pacemaker!"
Talk about being worried when the ping times out...
What I wanna know is, how to hack it to add a larger hard drive and load Linux on it
--The space between my ears was intentionally left blank--
Why not have a computer that constantly monitors all our vital signs?
How about a company sell these things for parents to have their kids wear? I'm a parent and I might buy one.
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~~ the real world is much simpler ~~
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Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
I don't know about anyone else - but personally I think this is the saddest comment on society that I've seen in a long time. Not only are people so disinterested in their older generation that they shove them off into isolated "communities" to whither and descend into dementia and death, but now you're saying you can't even be bothered to take time out of your working schedule to go visit your grandmother as she dies? That's totally sick and demented.
Sorry Granny, but honestly nobody likes you 'cause you're old and no longer a productive member of the tribe - so we're not going to give your dying hours more attention than a few clicks on a website.
Old people don't want to be stuffed off in retirement communities with lots of senile people. They want to be with their families. They want to have meaningful contact with LUCID people - just like everybody else. But how often have we heard the same thing: no time for granny, put her in a home, no time for little billy let the TV or some strangers raise him. Got to be productive, got to work. And then we wonder why kids grow up to kill each other and people generally feel like society is slipping?
In general people in our society work too much. Never before in the history of mankind have people spent so much time working and considered it normal. Even slaves in the Roman empire had more time off than your average worker today. We're amazingly rich as a society, we have technology that even a few decades ago would only have been fanciful stories - and are we enjoying the benefits of any of it?
Something to think about anyway....
There are a thousand forms of subversion, but few can equal the convenience and immediacy of a cream pie -Noel Godin
I think some internet aware devices are a great idea and this is way better than a refrigerator that emails you when the milk goes bad. But the danger of all new technologies like this is having the lawyers ruin it for everybody.
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Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
I think this is a great idea. Unlike many others here who are afarid of introducing a public network into critical operating devices, I think the article clears this up pretty well. They're not going to be hosting CNN.com, and the only thing they'll probably do is transmit a keep-alive signal (takes a whole new meaning) to a web server and this is then made available on a secure site which family can monitor.
I can personally see where this has huge benefits. For example, if my Grandmother was in the hospital in critical condition, I would feel alot easier knowing I can check that she's OK anytime during the day by simply going to a web site. This frees up time for families with sick relatives and allows them to do such things as go to work to pay for the bills.
I could also see it being used as a way to rate hospitals. How long has it been since a patient has gone into arrest? How many per day? I could see hospitals advertising their 'uptimes' just as much as is the case with network system stability.
In addition, if the information was de-personalized and made available to the public, researchers and doctors could have access a wealth of data (especially if the devices are trasmitting more than a signal, e.g. heartrate, etc.) to examine regarding conditions, and varying opinions could be generated by many experts by examing data. In a way, you could get a second opinion by just telling your doctor to go look at the log on the web.
I think this is a case where humor got the best of us. Something like this has real possibilities for a wide range of audencies.
"I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
Other than the inevitable "Imagine a Beowulf cluster.." jokes, some other fun stuff comes to mind:
Give whole new meaning to "catching a virus".
Easy way to add tons of new nodes to SETI@home.
Would finally make "The Clapper" obsolete ("I've fallen, and I can't get up!")..
Could possibly make a nifty wireless peer-to-peer network at the retirement home.
However, on the downside:
If your ISP goes belly-up, you go belly-up.
Torg, come out of the spaceship. Nothing can stop Torg.
Great so ECHELON and Carivore can tell that i look at a lot of porn AND im a lazy slob with have high blood pressure now
--rock me like a huricane? NO rock you
Imagine you have a heart condition. You're at home, and all of a sudden, you have a heart attack. This system notifies your medical care provider, which then instantly relays the information to 911, who then sends paramedics to your house to save you. Or similar devices could be implanted in patients who have other illnesses, severe epilepsy perhaps? Respitory problems? We could see a whole new line of devices that would be able to remotely monitor patients' health. Daily data could be compiled into a databse, so doctors can review organ operation when a problem comes up. Not all patients can give reliable information to their doctors either, Espescially the elderly: "Have you been having problems breathing?" "I'm not sure, I don't really remember" could become "I see you've been having problems breathing, here's something I can do to help..."
I hope to see these devices appear more and more, because frankly, I think it's a good idea.
These depend on a server actually being up to trasmit to. I guess someone could DoS attack those servers, affecting patients by doctors not having the critical information in time. Which kinda supports michaels story comment, then again maybe not.