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Interesting Keyboard/Mouse Combo
Rimmel sent us a fairly hacked up keyboard/mouse combo. It's only a prototype, and the guy actually claims a patent on it (it's a split keyboard with a joystick. Let's not get full of ourselves ;) but he does have a lot of interesting notes on it, including timing notes to demonstrate that integrating the mouse this way is a speed gain. I'd tend to agree since I use a thinkpad with a mouse nipple half the time. Reaching for a mouse sucks, but the other half of that is playing a video game with anything besides a mouse is impossible.
Read the article, the inventor here managed to keep the weight down to that of an Intellimouse (granted, the Intellimouse is easily the heavist mouse I've ever used). He didn't address my #2 concern (after the weight one of course): This looks a lot more fragile than your average mouse. Mice take quite of bit of punishment over their lifetime, and now this guy is attaching half of an ultralight keyboard to the nose of it and we are supposed to avoid banging it on every other thing littering our desks. Worse, he used a laptop keyboard, and laptop keyboards generally have terrible tactile feedback.
Down that path lies madness. On the other hand, the road to hell is paved with melting snowballs.
I read the internet for the articles.
I know this will probably get modded down to where no one will see it, but I don't see why this guy doesn't deserve a patent. Yes, it's a split keyboard, but one of the split parts actually IS the mouse, a really bright (IMHO) idea that deserves to be rewarded. More importantly, this isn't a software patent, but an actual physical invention that has to be built and manufactured, and therefore, an exclusive right to distribute and/or license its design seems appropriate.
Don't get me wrong, I think a lot of patents these days are pretty bad, but this thing actually seems fairly inventive and worthy of the rights.
In 1992 - 1993 I was involved in an ergonomics experiment sponsored by the Bank of America New Technology Centre. The experiment gauged, among other things, how much time it took for people to reach for the mouse from their keyboard.
The results were very surprising: Right-handed people who train themselves to use the mouse with their left hand were 40% faster at completing tasks under Windows and OS/2. This had to do with the following:
For those of you too young to remember this, Presentation Manager was the user interface standard proposed by IBM and implemented by OS/2 and Windows 3.x. Many of its ugly recommendations are still enforced in Microsoft systems.
It was measured that many tasks were accomplished faster by navigating with the mouse (left hand) to a given screen area, then using the cursor, Enter, or control keys to perform an action, or use the numeric keys for data capture, etc.
I still use my mouse with the left hand. You may wish to try it! It only takes about a day or so to get used to the new position. No, I didn't change the buttons' configuration. Left button is still left button even though I use the mouse with the left hand. It's a lot easier to move the mouse to the left of the keyboard on a system that doesn't belong to you than to re-map the buttons ::wink::.
I will ask if they ever published this research; if they did, I'll post back a follow up comment with the link to it.
Cheers!
Ehttp://eugeneciurana.com | http://ciurana.eu
Heh - if they made those keyboards with the old-style springs rather than cheapo rubber domes, I'd order one. As it is, I have a retro IBM keyboard I use with my laptop when I'm at home. It's big, heavy, and makes VERY loud clicking while typing. In short, it's wonderful to type with it on my lap - if it had a built-in trackpoint (nipple) or even a micro-trackball on the right-hand side, it'd be perfect. A lot moreso than the keyboard/trackpad on my laptop, where my palms always seem to activate the trackpad at inopportune times while I'm typing...
How about putting the cpu/memory in the stand for the monitor, and putting the heavy drives into the left-hand piece, leaving the right-hand one light enough to easily mouse with?
That way, you can throw a (small) fan into the base to dissipate heat from the cpu/memory, keep the drives in the stable left-hand portion, and the right-hand portion becomes the mouse.
Of course, if you start moving all the heavier parts (drives, etc...) into the base, you end up with something similar to the slim desktop Vaios...
Okay, a guy from Oz has a US Patent on his invention. Good for him, good for the USPTO.
About the design, Ive often wondered if a Theremin effect could be used for a 3D spacial
controller. Maybe even 4D. Ideas?
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
I have seen SGI workstations that have a bank of 6 dials/knobs for doing similar things. They are for XYZ Rotate and XYZ Translate. I imagine they are serial devices, so you can probably use them on just about anything as long as you have software support. Anyone know where to get them?
~GoRK
Remember the old Tektonix 4010 graphics terminals of the 70's who had just that for the graphics cursor: two thumbwheels on the right side of the keyboard?
But the best BM (before mouse) user-interface I've seen was on a Hewlett-Packard 9836 series desktop computer. It had a single thumbwheel on the left of the keyboard that sent the cursor in the direction of the last cursor key pressed.
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My favorite is the contraction of "Joystick" and "Nipple"...Leading to the...
JOYNIPPLE!
C-X C-S
Just what the world needs - a mouse you can never find when your computer really wants you to... :)
Caution: contents may be quarrelsome and meticulous!
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Had you actually read the article, you'd see he went you one better. The right kb rocks forward onto high-friction rubber feet when typing, then rocks back onto teflon feet when mousing. There's also a contact switch on the left side of the mouse that activates mouse mode. You won't get your pointer moving without your permission.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Look, the guy went to the trouble of showing you how his design works on his web site. You really ought to look it over before criticising. The kb is balanced on rubber feet. When you press the heel of your hand onto your mouse, it rocks towards you and glides on teflon feet just like the mouse you're using now. So, no, the kb isn't going to be skating around on you.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Then this would probably have given you an aneurism.
(It's amazing etch-a-sketch art, not Mr. Goatsex)
-B
>Sigh. Another neophyte gamer who thinks Quake
>is the end-all be-all of video games.
I've been playing computer games since the early 80's. I hardly think that makes me a neophyte.
>The mouse is good for SOME video games
Which was exactly my point. There are some (I would say quite a few) computer games that are difficult to use without a mouse.
do it right. This guy certainly put the legwork into researching his plan, and his comparisons of weight and center of gravity with the Microsoft Intellimouse are brilliant.
When I first saw the device, I thought, "Nah, it's going to be way too heavy and awkward." He's already got the research done to make sure it isn't, and he does a great job of disproving a lot of problems that users like me would consider. In fact, his product demo on that page is better than the documentation that comes with a lot of the products I've purchased.
Even if the mouse/kb combo concept doesn't take off, this guy deserves a great project management job somewhere. I'd love to write code for somebody who puts this kind of thought into their work.
What's your damage, Heather?
I yearn for the good old days when if you were talking about a keyboard and mouse, it meant Tom was trying to kill Jerry, who had hidden inside a piano. And Tom would play a damn good bit of Liszt trying to do it!
no no no....
its the g-spot.
you see, it's right next to the g key....
-- Segmentaion Fault (core dumped)
A combination of a regular keyboard and a *foot mouse* would probably be more idea. Hands constantly stay on the keyboard, so there's no penalty for "context-switching" between mousing and typing. And you get a small multitasking bonus (typing while mouse moving).
If they were CHEAPER, I'd see a lot of people getting one.
YOU didn't think of it did you?
Actually, I did. And if I had written it up in a print article, it would be prior art. Instead, I just thought "Now that's a stupid idea," and went on with my life.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
--
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
You normally use both thumbs for spaces. At the very least put it on the stationary side since is a very common key used.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
I thought it would be neat to put a trackball into a mouse for 4 degrees of movement, but recently I saw an IBM mouse with the little stick on it and thought that would actually be better!
I only saw it in a picture though, and couldn't find it on IBM's web site. Anyone know anything else? It would be great for a first person shooter if you put an additional wheel and a few more buttons on it...
-Adam
---Looking for people to market my in-home, do it yourself root canal kit---
This sig 80% recycled bits, 20% post user.
I hope she doesn't live in California. one mild earthquake and all her work would be ruined!
I always wanted to take apart an old mouse, and mount two dials on the front end of the keyboard.
That way, you could have perfect orthogonal motion when doing CAD or drawing work. Doing diagonals will take some skill.
The inspiration? The Etch-A-Sketch. I dunno, call it the Etch-A-Mouse.
I love this idea. I don't know how practical it is until I have one 'in hand', so to speak but It would go a ong way to help something that's been driving me nuts for a while. It was pointed out in Dilbert as a joke, but its the absolute truth:
We have designed the modern PC for people with three hands.
This becomes most apparent when you're working in 3d apps, like Lightwave, 3d Studio, Truespace, or the like. You've got one hand working the controls, one hand on the mouse and you wish you could have a third hand on the number pad.
The other thing that drives me nuts on mice is the wheel. So my mouse maps X and Y axes to the standard motion of the mouse. Why can't I map the wheel to a Z axis? The best example of this is the Kensington TurboRing trackball. The 'wheel' is actually a ring set into the top of the trackball and indeed rotates about the Z-axis. Why don't 3d apps allow for this?
Ignore the craze ravings of a 3d geek.
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404 Error:
I can't believe he moved the backspace key. I know that proper typing technique is to use your right thumb for the space bar, but since I had surgery on my right thumb while learning to type, it's been left thumb spacing for me. I could *never* use this keyboard layout. I'm sure that other people use the left thumb for the space as well. Grrrr...
I would give this guy a million dollars if he would put the function keys back on the left side of the keyboard where they belong. This would surely save the world countless seconds by allowing programmers to once again touch type these keys, just like in the "good ol' days."
No hurry. I still have enough IBM PC-AT keyboards to last me a hundred years.
I agree with you that this is definitely an innovation that deserves some recognition. However, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "appropriate". Just because it's not software does not mean that a patent that ensures "exclusive right ot distribute" is good. I believe that open hardware is just as important -- the same sort of advances that are possible in a software world free of patents are also possible in a hardware world free of patents.
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A waterproof/foodproof keyboard -- been done
- A keyboard that rolls up -- been done
On top of that it's cumbersome to use, you have to push the keys extra hard to make them work, making it anything but ergonomic.The web site mentions that the future plans for the device call for the mouse section to be wireless. The strap minght actually be a good idea, but a pin if you have to scratch your nose quick. I could really see people gouging thier eyes out if it's strapped to thier hand when they go to pick thier nose.= \=\=\=\
=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\
I don't want to seem to be a troll here. But I've had experiences with the small company that has a patent trying to get money out of a large company that is producing a knock off.
Here's how it goes down. You serve them with papers. You meet and say "You're stealing my idea." They respond "We've looked at your finacial standing, you don't have the means to defend your patent. Good day."
Patents protect large companies, and pad lawyers pockets, they do nothing to protect the small inventor.
To each his (ambiguous masculine third person pronoun includes both genders...and transgenders, I suppose) own.
BTW, I'm the kind that loves the point-stick (I'm not using the N-word in my posts!) to the extent that I only consider laptops with the point-stick as an option. Kinda narrows down the choices, but at least I can choose between IBM and Toshiba models. (I've owned the Workpad z50 and, currently, a Toshiba Satellite 2805).
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-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
The really amusing part is watching the counter at the top of the guy's site. When I first hit it, it was at 27. I reloaded about ten seconds later, and it was at 99.
It's like watching a Slashdotting in action...
--
Feminism is the wild notion that women are human beings.
now not only I'll bang my mouse when I'll be pissed getting fragged in quake, I'll bang the keyboard at the same time, double the frustration releive in one single shot, the one who claims that isn't worth a patent is a complete idiot
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
I am, however, pretty accustomed to the old Compaq laptops that had the trackball in the LCD display. I'd take that over a damn touch-pad any day.
--
Wooden armaments to battle your imaginary foes!
Look on eBay for an "IBM TrackPoint II" keyboard, which is an old skool clickity Model M keyboard with a clit. Comes in white and black.
(I highly recommend it because it's helped my wrists a ton, primarily due to the mechanical action, but also because the trackpoint is good enough for minor web mousing without moving your hand. Only problem is that scroll mice don't work with the PS/2 passthru, so if you want both a trackpoint and a fancy mouse, make sure the mouse is USB.)
When I hear the word 'innovation', I reach for my pistol.
More and more people are getting fysical injuries when sitting in front of a computer. Is that because they stretch for the mouse, and then back to the keyboard ? (ie _moves_)... no its all the static movement... yes!
Furthermore, what kind of mouse do you perfer to use ? What kind of keyboard ? I personly fancy those "broken" keyboards form MS and Logitech, since they relax both hands, neck and shoulders. The same goes for the mouse. I use a logitech mouseman wheel simply because it supports the hand and gives a very relaxing working position. Any ordinary plain simple mouse gives me the creeps in less then 10 minutes.
We need to move more, not less...
Probable impossibilities are to be preferred to improbable possibilities.
Aristotele
How young do you have to be to think this way? The only decent video game I've ever played with a mouse was Arkanoid-- and then only because a mouse is basically an inverted trackball. For anything else I'd rather have a regular old keyboard or a joystick (and in some cases two joysticks). Maybe a steering wheel for racing games, but those play fine with joysticks too.
I do not have a signature
An innovative idea, not an algorithmic patent... as far as Im concerned this deserves a patent.
The inventor has solved this problem by making it so that the right handed side of the keyboard acts like a mouse only when a contact switch is pressed. (Check out this Overview sketch.)
YOU didn't think of it did you? How bout anyone else here. Go look at the page, look at his designs, look at the consideration he's put into this and come back and tell me its not an invention. It is. Not calling this an invention is like calling a light bulb "just a piece of wire headed by electricity...for peats sake haven't you seen lightning light up the sky".
Burn Hollywood Burn
I think it's true that it's hard to convert the mainstream user - I would still be typing on my old klik-klak IBM keyboard if it wasn't for my CTS.
However, from what I heard, it can be damn expensive, if one or more of your employees get wrist problems from typing - they can't continue work, and demand insurance or compensation. One of my friends worked for the the Danish railway system, doing some slave typing tasks, got CTS and ended up getting over three times as much in compensation as he got in wages, the three months he was there... and he's still getting money coming in every month (ok, that's Denmark).
I use a Datahand, and they claim that some companies have experienced increased productivity (up to 13% gain) on heavy duty typing tasks from using their keyboard. Ie. more productivity, less chance of employees getting wrist problems from investing in an alternative input device. If employers aren't insisting on their typers/coders using ergonomic input devices, it can cost them money AND the employees their health (and yes, CTS does suck).
-Kraft
-Kraft
Live and let live
Is it just me, or does anyone else think it's strange that out of the hundreds of Wintel mouse/keyboard combinations on the market, none of them combine the keyboard and mouse data into a single stream? Is it really that hard to embed mouse movement into the keyboard serial port?
Interesting, but nothing new really. Just like all other 'inovative' keyboards, this one will be useful for the carpal tunnel folk, but won't convert the mainstream user. The keyboard is about the least improved part of a computer ever, so I doubt anything will change until we get telepathy-enabled computers. In fact, the keyboard has been around since typewriters, so why would we ever change the design? The only really innovative keyboard design I have seen has been the Plycon Flex Keyboard as reviewed in this VH Review.
In my book, for efficiency and compactness, the IBM Trackpoint is still the best way to go. It takes a while to become good at using it and feel comfortable with it (and many users give up before then), but once you are used to it, it's great. Note that the Trackpoint is different from the pointing sticks found on Toshiba machines and some other imitators; those are really awful.