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Compaq's Laptop/Desktop Concepts
g8oz writes "Compaq is trying to 'visioneer' its way to the future. Cringe-worthy buzzword, yes, but check out how they've combined the notebook/desktop computer into one.
Lick your lips here." Some of the ultra-thin laptop designs look interesting to me, but as to the others, there's no accounting for taste, I guess;)
This is exactly why I use the laptop more. It's a PowerBook, so can drive both the LCD and an external monitor out of the box.
Hold down the T key when you restart, and the PowerBook goes into "FireWire Target Disk Mode". Run a FireWire cable between the PowerBook and a desktop (or another PowerBook), and the PowerBook disk appears as a regular FireWire drive on the other machine. It's also got an auto-sensing ethernet port, so you can plug it directly into the ethernet port of another machine without a cross-over cable.
At $3,499 it's not cheap, but I've found it's definitely a desktop replacement. In fact the only reason I keep the desktop machine around is for the odd game - laptop 3D hardware is still lagging behind a bit.
-dair
It appears that none of the designs of these "laptops of the future" offer ergonomic keyboards. Go figure.
Alex Bischoff
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
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If this is their business plan, it's time to get your money out of Compact and into Kenmore, Sylvania, and Pioneer.
Interestingly enough, these designs bear a striking similarity to Apple's 'Pomona' prototypes from 1993.
Pomona saw the light of day as the Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh, but the prototypes are where the real similarity lies.
"brand name" manufacturers are looking for ways of differentiating themselves from mom&pop computer store-style computers as they can't compete on the very thin margins of PCs (well under 5%). they need to make something sufficiently different from the do-it-yourself computer world so they can extract higher margins for their computers
I am not an economist, but I would have to think that there's nothing guarenteed about that 5% profit margin, and it has in fact been dropping over the years. In a slow-growth market where you have an infinate number of suppliers with identical products, my guess is that the both the profit margin and the quality will go radically down over time.
To argue with the AC below, "open" hardware might be a good thing in the short term due to lower prices, but in the long term, you might not necessarily like the resulting product. Having your favorite vendors delve into a pricewar when you want a stable server is not necessarily a good thing.
Name brand makes like Compaq and Dell used to be able to demand a premium based on the fact they were better engineered (more stable, more compatible, etc). However, this hasn't been especially true for many years. In fact, Compaq doesn't even really make (personal) computers anymore -- that's Intel and AMD's job, and Compaq functions as what used to be called an "integrator" -- someone who installs the OS and various add-on boards and makes sure that it ships on time. In short, nothing but a well capitalized salesman for Intel and Microsoft's warez.
But, none of this is rocket-science, which is why the automobile industry doesn't have the same Soviet-style organization as the computer industry. Oh, what? It turns out style sells just as it sells cars? I guess I've committed Slashdot heresy and will go to the corner and administer myself lashes. Meanwhile, here's to your Turbo buttons.
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Ok I didn't like it when computers went from the el-cheapo not so expandable console style computer (Commodore 64) to the bulky expandable not so cheap computer (PC)
I came to like it becouse it's easy to expand. The price is good etc.
Today most users aren't so worryed about price.
They don't often expand. For them upgrade is toss old computer buy new.
Dear god no.. yes that may be where we are going.
But I don't see us compleatly abandoning the upgrades. No off the shelf will satify the gamers and the gammers drive a huge wave of sales. They blow up computers overclocking them and buy new systems to overclock again. They DO upgrade and do so fanaticly. They buy the midrange low end and high end depending on where they are in life. But none are satisfyed with the off the shelf.
So expect upgrades to remain. Cheap upgrades.
I expect the wearable plug board standard 401 or 104? I forget.. Those things will become the foundation. This compaq case design will also.
But expect more inovation...
The keyboard mouse monitor and CPU will be standard eventually. Don't like the touch mouse? Buy an expensive trackball. Don't like the keyboard? Buy the new happy hacker for squish tops.
(Why Squish top? Lets cram all the PC into a laptop... SQUISH.. ewww)
Until everything is plugable standard and you are not trapped onto one vender don't expect this to fly byond CEOs, CFOs and other business executives. But business executives are the target market for laptops. For now they'll tolerate this for the cost savings of not needing a full PC at the office and the added benifits of a not quite full PC where ever they go.
Some will eventually carry a happy hacker or a trackball and other hardware to compleate the experence. They don't need the ultra neat added hardware. But some do and so the desktop remains.
Upgrading becomes an issue. Once video board upgrades become standard the lan gammer will want them.
But the upgrades won't be as cheap as we'd like.
PCs will surive. upgrades are cheaper on PCs and it's easyer to build cutting edge systems on PCs.
So expect the hacker/geek to keep his PC style case while the "avrage user" slips to the "cheaper" squish tops.
Cheaper not becouse they are easyer to make. But becouse they are made at sevral levels BELOW the PC. We get the Intel Quadomatic 25e chip while they get Intel Celeron 5.. the gammers will grab the side market Quadomatic 24e upgrade module.
Us first, gammers second, CEOs next then avrage users. Thats how the technology will trickle down.
The side effect of this...
Linux drivers...
This becouse the old PC desktop will become the exclusive domain of Linux.
Windows will move on to the squish tops.
(Linux will run on those also)
The basics of Squish tops will also find there way into full service PDAs and wearables.
But wearables will be used by gamers, collage students, sysadm and government agentcys. (Usually police).
Anywho.. Thies will go to CEOs.. future generations will be in your kid sisters hands.
I don't actually exist.
Call me crazy (you wouldn't be the first) , but shouldn't we really be spending our time on thinking up new designs instead of re-hashing old ones? I mean, everyone and their mom thinks of computers the same way -- three piece units -- A monitor , a keyboard, and a beige box. There's really nothing wrong with the traditional three-piece idea, but if you really want to be unique, think up something different.
How's this: Stackable cube computers. You start with one cube. The cubes are build to be interconnectable in a cluster environment, something that is easilly do-able with low end parts right now. Put high-speed IR transcievers on the sides, and make the side panels of the cube out of translucent plastic, like the same plastic that sits infront of the emitter on a remote control. Put two of the cubes near eachother and they establish a connection, and become a node on the cluster. You could stack and arrange these cubes in any sort of shape or fashion, so long as at least one side faces a side of another cube. You could build rings of them, walls of them, or giant 3x3x3 Rubik's Cube clusters out of them.
Better still, how about modular computers that are meant to physically connect? Have a standard where everything you build has to fit within a 4x4x1" brick. You could multiply the computing power of your cluster just by going out, buying more bricks, and stacking them up. The topology of your stacking would depend upon the type of computing being done -- A linear 1D stack of bricks would be good for horsepower, but a 2D stack would be more efficient at message-passing.
Lots of things to think about instead of "Duh, here's another 3-piece. Its shiny!!"...God gave us brains, and Autodesk gave us CAD. Get to work.
Bowie
Bowie J. Poag
Of course if you are a techie, then you will opt to put the stuff inside the box where you know you are going to get the most performance.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Considering that my need for a desktop comes from an overriding desire for expandability using cheap parts, I would never buy one of these. From the JPEGs on the site it looks like they think the big win for desktops is the higher elevation of the monitor/bigger angle between monitor and keyboard. Never mind that it's still not a full sized keyboard - it's just the same keyboard detached from the laptop and placed on the desk. And it's still using that horrific touchpad as a mouse. Don't get me started.
So let's see... I keep all of the disadvantages of a laptop - proprietary design, expensive parts, and lack of expandabilty - and add several new opportunities for mechanical failure? I don't think so. I'll reccommend it to my CEO - his friends might be impressed.
"Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
Notebook computers traditionally trade a certain amount of performance and expandability for portability. Which is fine, when you get a notebook, you expect upgrades to be expensive but you know you're gaining mobility.
Desktops usually are easily upgraded, and fairly modular. You can just take the box out and pop in a new one, leaving the monitor/keyboard/mouse/speakers intact.
I think making a hybrid is an inherently flaky concept. It's a bit like Microsoft wanting to merge the server and the client into a single OS - the two modules are simply SPECIALIZED and are best at their particular environments. Trying to "homogenize" is a bad idea. When the system doesn't need to move, desktops are cheaper and easier to upgrade. This won't change.
It's not all bad though. There's a great idea hidden in there too - having a notebook where could could keep your monitor and keyboard during upgrades (just buy the "back" of the book for a new system) is TERRIFIC! It could be the answer to cheaper notebook upgrades, provided it doesn't fall apart too easily!
<TROLL MODE="apple zealot">
this would only be cool if Apple did it using tranlucent plastics!
</TROLL>
<TROLL MODE="linux zealot">
this would only be cool if the pointing device had three buttons!
</TROLL>
<TROLL MODE="windows luser" LEVEL="clueless">
these are going to rock so hard they'll wipe those Apple losers and those Linux geeks right off the planet! Dude!
</TROLL>
Seriously, Compaq has been making some good looking hardware for some time now (the old 3050 series desktops with the integrated LCD and cordless mouse were works of art, though a bit pricey for the day) but, as an Apple zealot, I can't get too enthused about PC hardware, even when it looks this cool. As a Linux geek, however, I'll have to give one of these babies serious consideration as my next Linux box. It'd be nice to get some of the desk space back, and get a portable machine in the bargain as well.
Well, this is purely subjective; I've been using a laptop as my main PC for >2 yrs now. And yes, I am a programmer and yes I spend >>8 hrs in front of a PC. The reason? I spend >>8 hrs in front of a PC: which means, I would like to be in control of my environment during that time, not the PC. I can work on my laptop at work, at home, on the road in an airplane, out in the balcony in this awesome weather we've been having, on my couch, etc, etc.
:-)...
Yes, laptops are more cramped (I have a MS Natural Keyboard hooked up to mine right now), but they are not necessarily slower than a desktop if they're beefy enough (RAM is important as the minute they hit a slow-ass 2.5" HD they slow down a lot) and an LCD screen is easier on the eyes for long periods of time, than even a kick ass CRT.
However, you're right, I too would like a VGA-in port. I have a coupla small boxes doing server work (NAT, etc) and having those ugly old CRTs around cramps my style
Their laptops are intentionally damaged during the design phase; I have a Compaq Presario something or another that has its bios more or less wired to work only with Compaq's version on Win98. Installing Win2k, Linux, QNX, or anything else on it may result in the hard drive being overwritten by the "hibernate" feature, which is impossible to disable in the BIOS. Apparently if it doesn't find its special file in its special place, it just starts writing somewhere on the disk. I called Compaq Tech Support and spoke with them at length, and they finally just admitted that this model was designed to work only with '98 as supplied on their Recovery CD. "So you took this hardware and froze it in time?" I asked. "Yes," tech support said. "I'll not be buying a Compaq laptop again," I said. "That's probably a good idea, but you didn't hear me say it," tech support said.
Plus, the battery doesn't work well, and the (internal) charger quit working after a few months.
Don't buy a compaq, no matter how cool the blurry PR photos from that VP look.
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Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Well it certainly looks nice, but nice looks does not make for a good laptop. I've had crappy experiences with their server line (Proliant's) which would make me think 3 times before personally buying anything for myself from Compaq. I do however wonder how this will stand up to CEO types who like the VAIO, certainly this is a better looking laptop than Sony.
Damnit I wish they'd bring back the good old Tadpoles to whip some ass on the market. It's a shame they were so expensive =[ I've used one for a few months as a job requirement some while back and feel in love with it.
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When all of us unfortunate enough to have to deal with their corporate client machines (desktops, laptops) know that all of their laptops are designed (exclusively) for and built for Compaq by some of the same no-name-brand cheapo asian manufacturers that bring you those "anonymous brand" laptops you see advertised in the backs of computer magazines. No saavy geek would buy one of those mystery machines, yet corporations buy they compaq-branded ones. You'll find that compaq laptops are some of the worst quality laptops on the corporate market, with failure rates several times higher than their competitors. My previous (work-assigned) Compaq laptop (4130t) had to have 3 new keyboards, one new display, one hew HDD, one new system board, and was also TOTALLY replaced one other time during its life with me. My current one (3500) has caused all sorts of consternation with those people involved with developing the OS images for our machines due to their quirks and hardware bugs, and is on its second display in 4 months (this one is shot now too).
So if you want to congratulate a company for Visioneering a new Compaq portable, look no further than some of the "cheapest bid" Chinese and Taiwanese companies that anonymously supply them.
On the bright side, Compaq lays a thick warranty on the things. If they sell a laptop for $3000 I'm convincec it could cost them no more than $1300 to make. Else the economics of having to replace so many parts on so many in warranty-covered repairs just would make no sense.
But, none of this is rocket-science, which is why the automobile industry doesn't have the same Soviet-style organization as the computer industry. Oh, what? It turns out style sells just as it sells cars? I guess I've committed Slashdot heresy and will go to the corner and administer myself lashes. Meanwhile, here's to your Turbo buttons.
sure, it's all pretty obvious that the computer market will eventually be like the automotive market and these compaq designs are just the first step in that direction. i also believe that computers are going to move away from the quantitative component model to a solution-style sell. people will buy x "computer" that lets them do a, b & c. Mhz, processor, RAM and everything else will be nothing more than a footnote at the end of the user's manual.
Apple has already started along this path with their recent move into retail, and i don't think they'll be alone for long. the slashdot crew is going to have to get used to the fact that computers are not going to be like they are now for much longer, and the idea of the beige box under the desk and "built it yourself" computers will be a very antiquated idea for only old people (us) (kinda like the way we look at old mainframes today).
all in all i think it's for the best, but it's funny to watch all the long-time computer geeks fight it as much as possible. i wonder if a similar thing happened with automotive "gear heads" back many years ago? "bah, who's going to buy a car for that much when it only has x horsepower? leather seats? fancy colours? nobody's going to buy that!" ;)
- j
i believe that a lot of these PC manufacturers are going to move to designs such as this. the PC market has become a commodity of "cheap parts" that can be slapped together easily. "brand name" manufacturers are looking for ways of differentiating themselves from mom&pop computer store-style computers as they can't compete on the very thin margins of PCs (well under 5%). they need to make something sufficiently different from the do-it-yourself computer world so they can extract higher margins for their computers.
Apple has 5% of the desktop market for personal computers yet they make more money than PC manufacturers with double that marketshare. this is because they've differentiated themselves enough to extract up to a 25% margin on their personal computers. in a market slowdown like we're seeing, Compaq and the likes can't help but be jealous with their measly margins. they like their server or laptop business where they too extract margins around 20% (note how even Apple can be very price competitive in the laptop market).
as long as the computer companies can sufficiently differentiate their product they'll be able to charge higher margins, period. that's why you'll see a lot more of these non-upgradeable proprietary computers. very few people here like that idea, but then most of the people here are concerned with cost above all, regardless of form. i think you'll find most people with a fair amount of disposable income will go with these new Compaq boxes, for better or for worse. i like them personally, but then i'm a Mac user too ;).
- j
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Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Like many folks, I spend hours a day on a laptop. The big problem is posture--because the screen should be higher. I think that this is great.
I seem to be the only one here that thinks different when it comes to looks. I'm sorry, but to me, looks are TOO important.
Sure, I still do some coding now and then. Sure I write all my own business plans and financial reports and analisys, and sure it's important for my PC to function properly, but that's not hard to do anymore. I can use pretty much any computer and fix whatever problems I have on them on the fly, and as long as I have enough RAM and HDD, i don't care about the rest (not even the CPU as long as it's at least a PII or more). I don't even care if it runs windows or linux, as long as I can get the job done, and I usually can.
The huge difference I see is that to me, looks are VERY VERY important. I want my computer to look cool, my cars to look impressive and my women to be pretty (and to me my wife is). Why? i don't know. I'm not insecure at all. I don't have a problem with my penis size, I'm not a show off and I'm usually a very idealistic guy (instead of materialistic), but there's nothing like a good design. To me, it's inspirational. If I love the way my computer looks, it makes me want to spend more time on it, and probably I'll feel more motivated. It's like a house. I don't just want four walls, a place to sit and a net jack every few feet, I want a good looking house, with pilars, a patio, good lighting, cool plants, lots of maps and that sort of excentric stuff.
Maybe it's because I really do love art, or maybe it's because i'm just human. Even the software my company develops has to be pretty, even if we still have to iron out some bugs. And i know this would make a lot of people unconfortable, but a system that looks good sells easily, because it looks polished, even if it's a piece of crap on the inside (and no, we don't develop pieces of crap, really!), but a system that does EVERYTHING, but looks like one of those casio electronic agendas of the 80's is less likely to succeed. That's just how humans work. It's all about perception, no matter how hard we try here to make everyone believe that function is more important. And if I have to mention our holy war just to connect (i'm reading too much katz, sorry), that's why linux is not very popular as a desktop OS for the masses, and windows with all it's bugs and BSOD's is.
Heck, in our experience, if the software looks good, people are more likely to use and enjoy it and less likely to complain about any faults, even if it's a fault in the system (which creates a different set of problems, especially related to feedback)
so if this line of computers offers nothing new in terms of functionality or practicality, but look cool as hell, when I get the cash I'll buy one of those, an Audi TT convertible and go watch The Matrix with my wife again in a brand new Plasma screen. Trust me, I'll be inspired. Maybe that day i'll finish my novel....
There are two kinds of people in the world: Those with good memory.
Now Compaq has some nice designs, some of them almost Applesque.
But some of their marketing strikes me as being similar to the above, sort of trying intimidate the competition. This will probably work to some degree, although most folks here probably won't fall for it.
Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Now, if they could make that removable 'touchpad' you see in a couple of there designs a PDA... Id be first in line. When removed; flip a switch its an RF mouse for the Laptop. Put it in the dock and it runs as your laptop's touchpad && a seperate host (ssh/xwindows the PDA). Remove it from the laptop and its a PDA...
That would be terrific - thanks. Im sure the 'visioneers' could manage that eh?
The link is seriously lacking in information. I'd like to see some technical specs before drawing any conclusions. It looks good, but does it deliver in other areas (battery life, performance, quality, etc.). At the moment this looks like pure hype.
I don't know, BUT compaq could be onto something.
Computers that transform. I mean we have all seen trucks that transform(optimus prime), planes that transform(starscream), or even dinosaurs(grimlock).
Though I wonder if they would make that cool noise when they transform.
hehe
I'd like to see laptops with VGA-in ports.
I like that idea. If the new Powerbook had a VGA-in port, I might very well get one and use that as my only screen :)
-- If no truths are spoken then no lies can hide --
While I agree with you that we need some good alternatives to the plain old beige cases, I don't see what that has to do with this.
You're saying the point of those Compaq designs are to be visually pleasing, but it seems fairly obvious that their main goal is in the portability department. The word you may be looking for is "novelty", not "design". Compaq is trying to be unique, and they've probably succeeded (at least for now), but unique in itself is pointless.
If you want interesting designs, look to Apple. I'm seriously considering getting a G4 Cube; with those looks, that size, and the virtually silent operation, it'll make a perfect 24-hour Linux box for my room. But now we're getting off topic.. :)
-- If no truths are spoken then no lies can hide --
I don't see the point of the two first designs on that page at all. I mean, fine, the screen elevates a bit, and the keyboard comes loose, but looking like a desktop doesn't make it a desktop. It'll still have all the problems normally associated with laptops; low performance, cramped keyboard, and a low-contrast low-brightness screen. The added mechanics of those designs will just add to the price and complexity of the product.
One thing that may be of use is what looks like a detachable mouse; I for one don't like having the mouse or equivalent centered in front of me. But the result looks like a tiny little thing which wouldn't be any better. If that's the alternative, I don't mind having to carry around an extra mouse with my laptop at all.
-- If no truths are spoken then no lies can hide --
Like it or not, I think this kind of product is the future of home computing. Microsoft has started giving PC makers suggestions on what their computers should look like, and they look a lot like this. Ultra small form factor, flat panel display, and everything hooking up through USB or Firewire. This particular design might be a bit fanciful for a laptop, but this is probably similar to what desktops will look like in a few years.
Personally, I won't mind. The spec sounds a lot like the Apple G4 Cube, which is what I'm using quite happily right now. Small and quiet == good. What about expansion? Really, you don't need expansion slots anymore. Virtually everything you need can be done through FireWire or USB. If this is the future, then it looks pretty good to me.
This
In fact many startups buy laptops+replicator/docking station to replace normal desktops, to faciliate high mobility and save space.
:)
It also make it easier for them to pack their stuffs when their company go under.
... having them work better together?
I have both a laptop and a desktop. I use my desktop probably 80-90% of the time. The desktop is more configurable, more powerful, and much more comfortable to use. Replacing it with a laptop would be ridiculous.
Meanwhile, my laptop sits around collecting dust, unless I'm travelling or need to transport files to/from work.
Looking at some of those Compaq photos that separated the screen from the keyboard gave me an idea:
I'd like to see laptops with VGA-in ports. It might be kind of cool to use a laptop as an LCD screen (this could be particularly useful as a second monitor). After all, if you spend $2000 on a laptop--a good portion of which covers the cost of the LCD--wouldn't it be nice to get as much use out of its screen as possible?
It might also be interesting if you could hook up a laptop to a desktop so that the desktop sees the laptop as removeable storage, a PCMCIA drive, etc.
It may look good, but I seriously doubt you could bring the durability up to spec. First of all, all those detachable parts (particularly the touchpad) are just begging to be lost, and since they are proprietary designs you won't be able to replace them easily.
More importantly, the way the monitor/base part of the unit is designed looks inherently fragile. There are way too many opportunities and ways to break those two sets of hinges -
1) If they break on their own due to heavy use. Since the hinges flex in opposite directions, it would be too easy to push them the wrong direction.
2) If you push down on top of the screen while it's in desktop mode, you'll put way too much stress on the hinges. Of course, gravity will be doing this all the time.
4) It looks like all it would take is a very small push near the top to knock this expensive piece of hardware over (forwards or backwards), which would be bad enough except that the three parts then have plenty of opportunity to bang against each other. And since the screen, electronics, and drives are all in that unit they could be easily damaged.
Take it from me, broken hinges suck. They shouldn't push their luck.
cryptochrome
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
At first glance, I was reminded of several "alpha" designs at IBM. (Interesting that this comes right after the Ergonomics article)
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What we really need next is: better reliability, better performance, more than the seemingly standard two PCMCIA slots, and less expensive hardware addons. Also, more available hardware would be nice. Manage this while dropping the weight, and you've got a killer machine. I marvel at some of the incredible power management technology that is now available, but when I plug my laptop into an AC outlet, I want full unbridled performance. I think the reliability factor would improve if manufacturers would use less proprietary components and settle on more standards. And give me at least four slots. Cut the prices of cards in half, and give me most of the same choices I have with PCI. After that, then you can worry about proping my display up and making my keyboard detachable.
GreyPoopon
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GreyPoopon
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Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?
Did the Transformers theme song pop into anyone else's head while checking out those pics? If only they could add an automated, voice-command aspect for switching from laptop to desktop mode....
Build boards not bombs
Now secret government agencies can start losing their desktop boxen too
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*plamenessFilter = "Flaming Death!!";