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American Gods
The note that Gaiman makes on the cover of my book regarding the difference between this book and Neverwhere, his book about Underground London, is a good one.
"If Neverwhere was about the London underneath, this would be about the America between, and on-top-of, and around. It's an America with strange mythic depths. Ones that can hurt you. Or kill you. Or make you mad.American Gods is about the mythology of America, but also about its relationship with gods, stories and what America is about. I think that's the story of this book; the story of what America is and what it is about.American Gods will be a big book, I hope. A sort of weird, sprawling picaresque epic, which starts out relatively small and gets larger. Not horror, although I plan a few moments that are up there with anything I did in Sandman, and not strictly fantasy either. I see it as a distorting mirror, a book of danger and secrets, of romance and magic.
It's about the soul of America, really. What people brought to America; what found them when they came; and the things that lie sleeping beneath it all."
The characters, mainly, are Shadow and Odin. Odin has been an frequent character throughout Gaiman's works, and as someone who memorized Odin's stats in Legends and Lore, I've always enjoyed Odin, and think that Old One Eye is an interesting historical figure -- and one who is interesting to get to know a bit more intimately, albeit through a writer's eyes. Shadow's character, is the one character I liked the least. Well, that's not quite how I mean it -- I did like Shadow the character, and I think I'd like him as a person. But it feels sometimes like the Shadow's actions and dialogue are a bit stilted, but that's only a slight flaw in an overall wonderland of reading.
The two relationships I glommed most on to are the ones between Shadow and Odin, and (in a very different way) between Shadow and the other gods and goddesses that he meets. The other curious relationship, if it can be called that, is the one between Shadow and his dead wife. Trust me. It sounds wierd, but it works really well.
In a nutshell, this is the tale of what happens to old gods when they are brought, sometimes without the believers even knowing it, to a country that doesn't really hold a belief in gods - or rather, a belief in traditions. One of the most interesting parts about America, to be nationcentric for a moment, is the lack of traditions in things, compared to the rest of the world. But America has created its own gods, of a sort, and the main plot point is about the intersection of the old gods and new gods. And the most interesting part of the story is there, I think. Because that's where the meat of the book is, and where it transcends being just a story about "god hangs out with guy, creates havoc, guy has dead wife who talks to him, old & new gods want to fight, guy solves problems." (Well, I suppose that is a pretty cool story.)
American Gods delves into larger issues of what it means to hold on to our traditions and beliefs in a world that has dramatically changed, and in which our relationships with each other and what's around us has In summary, this is a book with a good story. More then that, it's a story about relationship to the world around us, and what being human means. It's good. Really good. If you've got even a [metatarsal] of philosphy, or a modicum of interest in reading good stories, buy it.
You can purchase this book at Fatbrain.
From Amazon, Neverwhere was out in hard cover in 1997. From the IMBD, Neverwhere was on TV in 1996. That would seem to support your statement. This page tracks some of his work and pretty much says the same thing.
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-- "Ever wonder why the SAME PEOPLE make up ALL the conspiracy theories?"
Confirming the report of the other two posters, Neverwhere was originally written as a six-episode miniseries for the BBC. It's not without its charm, but the book is better. (The effects for Islington were good, but the Beast was a bit of a let down.)
I saw it at a local authorless book signing to promote Neverwhere's release. (And I still got an autographed copy.)
There's been a persistent rumor of a Neverwhere movie, but it seems to be overdue...
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how to invest, a novice's guide
Ok, that's not quite true, but U.S. public transportation really is in a sad state.
The English however have been everywhere and know where it is, but still dislike everything that is not British.
Ok, but we dislike everything that's not American even if we don't know where it is.
Neil Gaiman has a weblog at http://www.americangods.com/journal.html where he's documenting the trials and tribulations of writing and getting American Gods published. I haven't read the book, but if it's as good as his funny & informative off-the-cuff stuff on the weblog, I'll be at the bookstore early on the release date.
It was about principles. But since we ignored history, we forgot why we cared about them, and felt no fear or hesitation when we were asked to sacrifice them.
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Odin seems to be a popular figure for modern day mythology. Tom Holt wrote in my opinion an extremely funny book called Expecting Someone Taller; a synopsis of which is that a guy called Malcomn discovers the ring forged by Alberich (from Wagners Ring Cycle) and the gods, lead by Odin and his trickster sidekick Loki, try to convince him that a mortal is not a suitable recipient for a ring which provides unlimited power.
Well worth a read.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
I enjoyed Neverwhere, which describes an alternative London, containing magical, strange historical people and animals, existing between the cracks of the real London. I think the ending is a little "and they all lived happily ever after" though.
I also have to wonder wether he read the short story "Crouch End" by Stephen King before he wrote it. The short story is about a small section of London where dark creatures occasionally break through from other dimensions (bit like Buffy The Vampire Slayer ! )
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
Witty, but hardly true - you forget that the English were masters of 25% of the world at one time, and endured extreme hardship to get there [those of you who have endured the English public transport system would say we STILL endure extreme hardship to get anywhere!!].
In actual fact the very size of America often means that a large number of Americans have a very limited knowledge of the outside world, so long distances are only valid to Americans if both endpoints are within the US. I seem to remember that a significant percentage of Americans didn't have a clue where Iraq was when they were fighting a war there! The English however have been everywhere and know where it is, but still dislike everything that is not British. You only have to see our disagreements over Europe to see that.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
So the question is: does the culture of the united states cause this sense of little history, or does the lack of history cause the restless culture?
I tend to think that it's a bit of both of course, but lately I've been thinking about how cultural values actually reinforce the lack of history. Our culture doesn't encourage people to cultivate a sense of home or of belonging to a place much. The archetype is that you have to leave home to grow up.
(That shouldn't be too surprising considering that we consist of a nation of immigrants... to some degree, that has to exist.)
Still, there are pockets of culture in the US that encourage settling, and it would seem that in some of those communities, there IS a sense of history established. Reading Wendell Berry is one way to start thinking about this closely... he's interested in this sort of thing and documents where he's seen it (and also, somewhat antagonistically, where he doesn't).
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Tweet, tweet.
I think he's a true hero. :)
"It's here, but no one wants it." - The Sugar Speaker
-jon
Remember Amalek.
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Victor Danilchenko
I don't think so. Yes, one could make a case for Constitution being an important part of american cultural identity (although one could probably make an even stronger case for coca-cola and Hollywood). However, this sort of identity is artificial, and comparing it to the real thing -- organic cultural identity that arises over centuries -- is like comparing Esperanto to some natural language.
Such artificial constructs usually don't take root, and to be honest, I doubt that a true organic american cultural identity, should it ever emerge, will be based on Constitution to any significant extent.
Don't take me wrong, I think US Constitution to be a great thing, and I regard its de-facto deterioration as a terrible loss; but cultural identity is not usually based around formal principles, just as most people aren't defined by the principles they hold.
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Victor Danilchenko
In any causal event, multiple factors have to be present for the result to occur; however, one has to distinguish between the degrees of contributions from each factor, and also between the degrees of relevance of the said contributions.
It's very likely that without the support from the Spanish crown, Columbus would not have discovered America (whether he actually "discovered" it and what that event meant, is a separate topic). He also would not have discovered it if any of his parents didn't meet any other of his parents, because then he wouldn't have been born. Does that mean that you grant the credit for the outcome to all of the abovementioned entities?
Yes, America helped -- in a small way -- in the WWII war effort. The contribution from many other countries was far, far more significant, both in absolute and in relative terms. To give US credit for winning WWII is like to give Columbus's grandparents credit for discovering America, or like to give the Geneva patent office credit for discovering relativity, or like to give Mendel's abbey credit for discovery of mendelian genetics.
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Victor Danilchenko
US didn't enter the European front until 1944, by which time Germnany's defeat was inevitable. the purpose of the US military participation was not to help defeat Germany, but to prevent USSR from taking over entire Europe.
US did help economically, but that's little compared to the contribution of USSR, that being most of the war materials, manpower, and equipment. US contribution was minuscule compared to what USSR put into it.
Ah yes, the infamous American highscool education in action. <shakes his head>--
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Victor Danilchenko
...or at least wiothout a significant past for the majority of population, amerindians excluded.
I was born in Ukraine. The thing that struck me most about USA when I moved here, is the lack of history. A couple of centuries is all there is -- the country feels to me to be almost rootless, just sprawling on the surface, without a deep connection to history. There is very little here-ness in USA, a distinct lack of historical and cultural sense of emplacement. This to me seems to be an almost tangible hole in the cultural farbic of USA, a rather nagging sense of absence.
It's a strange feeling. Where americans do feel as if they possess an american identity (as opposed to the old-world national identity), it tends to appear almost artificial -- such people seem to be working very hard on figuring out what being an American is, culturally, instead of just being one.
Oh well... give it a few more centuries, perhaps a few more wars and revolutions, and this will change.
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Victor Danilchenko
> from the fiction dept.
I wasn't aware Slashdot had one-word, non-hyphenated departments anymore!
Cheers,
levine
When I was in the states I took the opportunity to look through American History books. For instance the chapter on WWII. Basically was page after page of "...and then America..." or "...and then Americans..." etc.
/American/ History, you should't begin to believe anything else. If for no other reason you should consider that the European parts of the Alliance had been directly attacked during the war. Economic crisis my ass, when half of your country is either bombed or taken over by the enemy THEN you can start talking about having a friggin crisis.
/is/ true that all countries have rather nationalistic views on history. I doubt that most Europeans history books have the same views on Swedish counqourers in Europe for instance. We do however study other countries as well though. (Mainly Europe and the US.) Sadly nothing about Asia. (Or rather, nothing before Europeans began trading there.)
Not to be rude but what is tought in US High Schools really is
And it
Another great book about divinity in the modern era. In this case, Ballard takes a small-time crook and gives him the powers of a pagan god. Imagine what the author of "Crash" would do with divine powers and you get the idea. Well worth reading.
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"Deep in the ocean are treasures beyond compare,
Deep in the ocean are treasures beyond compare; but if you seek safety, it is on the shore.
One other major difference I've found between the US and the UK is that people born in the US think that death is optional, whereas in the UK, death is just a reality, much like the weather.
When your country has only been around for a little over three lifetimes, it's hard to get perspective on anything important happening before you or after you. --Ringel
There is a list of the booksigning tour dates at http://www.americangods.com/tour.html
Disclaimer: I work for Joseph-Beth Booksellers in Lexington, KY, so I have an interest in getting people out to the signings.
I just got done reading Smoke and Mirrors, an excellent collection of Gaiman's short stories. He has an amazing way of telling stories that are at the same time both familiar and deeply strange. Definitely recommended.
That collection is somewhat focused on English myth, as much as anything. I kept wondering what he would do with American myth -- or the lack thereof. And now he's done just that. It's not like I don't have too much to read already...
KERA, the Dallas PBS station, recently ran a short series called 'Neverwhere.' It was only 12 or so 30-minute episodes. I just happened to catch the first episode, and was so intrigued by the wierd mixture of mundane and fantastic that I kept watching. While the acting was predictably uneven, it nonetheless had a very cool vibe. I hadn't ever figured out where it had come from, since it just showed up one night, ran for its 6 or 12 weeks and then was done, and was never mentioned anywhere. It was about 'Underground London' so I assume it was based on the Gaiman book mentioned above.
Did anybody else see this?
And why the Sam Hell is this under 'Science' anyway?
if ($it != $onething) {$it = $another;}
Little off topic, but Snowcrash delves into a bit of the topic of modern mythology.
And damn is it a good book.
"You worthless post!"
-Shakespeare, 2 Gentlemen of Verona, 1. 1. 147
Well, if anyone's really interested. There's a copy of an uncorrected proof for sale on e-bay. It was at $51 when I last looked. The link is here
In mathematics, one does not understand things, one merely gets used to them.
--VonNeumann
If I remember correctly (and I always do) "Crouch End" is one of King's contributions to the macabre Lovecraft mythos...
This was a pretty uninformative review, and it may have been better done by someone who wasn't a self-described fanboy. I suppose if you're already a Gaiman fan you're already lining up to buy the book, but for my part it said nothing that makes me want to do the same. I read Sandman, which was superb as comic books go, but which sucked as literature. (The series had an ending which wasn't so much foreshadowed as telegraphed, and it took a 20 or so issue story arc to get there. The substandard art for that arc didn't help matters.) I read Good Omens because of Pratchett's name on the cover, and frankly, without his clearly discernable contribution I would have considered it not worth the read.
So why should I read this?
And the brethren went away edified.
I am reminded heavily of Douglas Adams' 'The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul'. Gods are walking among us, wreaking havoc at airports. Ever wondered which god makes those street lamps go out when you walk past them? Adams has the answer.
I thought Snowcrash was about pizza deliveries, VR, 1337 hAXOR5, sk8boards, virii and The Mafia?
Maybe that bit went over my head....
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Moderator's essentials
How am I supposed to get an early post, and thus increase my chances for getting +1ed, if I have to click "Read More" to actually understand what this whole thing is about? The intro text should tell us all we need to know, so that we can commend/criticize/complain/ramble about the topic and be praised as "insightful" and "interesting"
Got Rhinos?
Yes the infamous American education. Just like the biased education of wherever you came from. Every country has it's own version of history deal with it. You have no more grounding in fact than anyone else.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
Just out of idle curiosity, why is /. so cozy with Barnes & Noble (owners of Fatbrain)? Is it just a straight marketing deal, are they the only ones with good prices and not Amazon, or what?
The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Um...I didn't think that Norse mythology counted as history, either.
I think the US Constitution is a big part of what makes America what it is. Having Law is neat, but even the Law is made by men, and subject to whims of men, and their short-term (and long-term) insanities.
As a response, everyone seems to want something Above The Law. In some countries, it's a King, in others, religion. These things become a core part of the Tradition of that country, which brings this back to topic.
In the US, as we weaned ourselves from our European traditions, we attached it instead to the Constitution. With that Uber-Law behind the Law, we gained an extra element of faith in ourselves, which perhaps leads to the work ethic mentioned on another response on this subthread.
Unfortunately, of late it seems that even the Uber-Law is powerless against Sufficient Application of Money, witness the RIAA and DMCA. The twisting of 'limited' in the Constitution, where it provides for patents and copyrights, is downright obscene.
It casts a chill on my faith in America.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Um... you do know that "Legends and Lore" is just a D&D game rule-book, and not a historical document, right?
Right?
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
That said, as a result of the last book review I ordered £60 in Diskworld books from Amazon.co.uk. Hopefully this, worthy of getting too, will be far enough down the road for me to accumulate sufficient wealth to buy it.
Summer reading I dreaded in H.S., now it's a long lost dream to sit in a park, under the shade of a tree, and read. Best I can do is 30 minute snatches during lunch. So much good fiction, so little time.
-- .sig are belong to us!
All your
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
"In a nutshell, this is the tale of what happens to old gods when they are brought, sometimes without the believers even knowing it, to a country that doesn't really hold a belief in gods - or rather, a belief in traditions"
Did you not read the review or are you just jumping on the bash-the-editors bandwagon? He said what it was about and he said it was a good book. What more do you want, the plot spelled out for you in explicit detail?
Also, which words did you need a dictionary for? Mythology and Nationcentric are the only two words in there that the average 6th grader shouldn't know, maybe you need to spend more than half an hour with the dictionary.
This is a bowel disruptor, and you are just full of shit. - Spider Jerusalem
...Jack doesn't know Jack about Javascript.
Yes, it's high time we all did a bit of introspection and answered for ourselves what it means to be human.
It's good to flow along with the tide, but you should also know your position vis-a-vis the shore, to reach the shore (unless of course you'd rather drown and never get to know whether there was any shore nearby at all).
There's always sufficient, but not always at the right place nor for the right folks.
While I saw on fatbrain that you can preorder it, does anyone know when the book is actually being released?
So what's this book about? Hemos didn't really provide me with much more insight about what it is, or how good it is, then the blurb at the beginning from the author. I think I'm going to quit reading the book reviews on slashdot. Everyone launches into ranting about their favorite author with big, and I mean really big, words that do nothing but make everyone whip out their dictionaries for a half hour while they try to decode exactly what the reviewer is saying. I'm not reading this book until someone tells me what the heck it's about!
England is where they think 100 miles is a long distance.
The U.S. is where they think 100 years is a long time.
Nope, no sig
America helped in a *small* way? What's that, European revisionist history trying to make up for the actual pathetic performance y'all gave against a *single* nation in dire economic straits? Tell me another. Tell me again how every one of you wankers folded in record time excepting Britain, and that just because the Germans couldn't get to it. If they'd been able to cross the Channel the Brits would've pissed down their leg as fast as the French did. *Americans* won that war. With the help of Russians. The rest of you acted liked victims or bystanders. By the gods, if ever we have have another war I hope we ally with the Germans this time. No pansies for allies and the whole thing'll be over in 6 weeks. Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
two words:
Lend-Lease
Look it up.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
I am not dissing US participation in WWII, but you must be absolutely uninformed if you did not know that the USSR war effort, and casualties were much higher.
Having US in Europe since '44 was a great help though, since it helped the Western European countries from coming under Stalin's control.
Just see what happened with the Checks, Polish, Hungarians, Eastern Germany, Berlin, Rumania, etc.
So the US contribution from '44 was priceless for the western European countries. If US had not helped towards the end, The eastern bloc might have been much bigger, Scandinavia, Italy, Austria. So US didn't as much protect Europe from Hitler, but from Stalin.
Europe is thankful for Russia's war contribution, but happy Stalin didn't win the war alone.
-- Another senseless waste of fine bytes.
Gaiman has been keeping an online journal during the creation of American Gods, it can be found here: http://www.americangods.com/journal.html
What were you expecting?