Slashdot Mirror
Sega and Sony to Link Game Consoles Via Internet
joestump98 writes: "Yahoo! is running a story about Sony and Sega teaming up to allow their consoles to play nicely with each other over the internet. It also mentions plans with Nintendo and Microsoft." Which should mean more cross-platform games, so perhaps consoles can be bought and sold more on their merits than their stable of games. Update: 06/05 08:11 PM by T : And RimmerExperience writes: "A recent story on Gamespot reports an agreement between Sun Microsystems and Sony to release Java support for Sony's PlayStation 2."
What the hell happened to proper tech speak? Help, help, I'm being invaded by journos.
I used to work as a salesman in an consumer electronic store, and sold consoles for years. I have also owned a couple, the best is still my Atari Lynx!
But I have always felt a bit funny about buying consoles since having a games pc. Sure, the advantages of a console are lower price, and truly plug and play, plus all games work etc. However, finally I see that consoles won't last in their present form. I mean think about it. Consoles reached a plateau with the PS and N64 in terms of playability. All the new features being offered, DVD, online gaming, browsing the net, email, small apps, are complicating matters, so soon you won't just be able to turn the machine on and be rolling, you will need to configure your dialup, connect to net, setup your network settings in a game, etc. etc.. and browsing? Well now you need to download updates, fix bugs, get email. All of these new tasks are a pain to do on a console, so why bother leaving your PC? PC Games hardware has always been better than offered by console in terms of graphics and sound, so the hardcore can stay there, and with the unified net connections being discussed, doesn't this make consoles seems just a bit more silly?
You can upload whatever you want via the Dreamcast BBA. Be it programs you write yourself, or even NetBSD.
Excellent! I will begin porting my enterprise servers and components to the PS2 pronto!
"Doubt your doubts and believe your beliefs." -- Switchfoot, Ode to Chin
Do not read this
Take a look at the JSR 134 for this: http://jcp.org/jsr/detail/134.jsp In combination with this, there is a bunch of work in the JCP wings for dealing with USB devices (based on a pre-existing OSS Java USB API for Linux no less!)
Life is complete only for brief intervals in between toys or projects -- John Dalton
able to waste people using the DC online.
Vermifax
Vermifax
Logout
Right now in Q3A, PC players are killing Dreamcast players.
Vermifax
Vermifax
Logout
Sonic Adventure.
They are currently working on the sequel.
Vermifax
Vermifax
Logout
For someone who has neither...
PS One ($99)
Mid-range DVD player ($150)
Switchbox ($20) (waive if lucky enough to have a tv with 2 seperate line-in ports instead of the standard 1)
Total: $270
PS2 ($279) (I've seen it slightly cheaper, and slightly more expensive, but this seems to be a mid-range price right now)
Total: $279
For $10 more, they get everything in one unit, no switchbox required, and the ability to play PSX as well as PS2 games.
It's not a bad deal for someone with neither one.
For someone who already has one or the other...it's less of a deal.
Internet protocol is Internet protocol, no matter what platform is spitting out the bits. Thus, you don't need "cooperation" among the console vendors to achieve compatibility. As long as the publisher hasn't made gratuitous changes to the game's protocol when porting to different platforms, it should all Just Work. It's therefore an issue amongst game publishers, not the console vendors.
The only thing I can think of that might be an issue is if what they're really trying to build is a "portal-based" gaming infrastructure, where you have to log into a Web page before you can launch the game proper (rather like Microsoft's Gaming Zone). This is, of course, nonsense, as has been proved by Quake. While a central catalog of running game servers is nice, you don't need a central server arbitrating gaming sessions; the server in question can handle it all. And, frankly, it's none of Nintendo's/Sega's/Microsoft's damn business which game I'm playing right now, and with whom.
What am I missing here?
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
I am at JavaOne, and it is true... Sony announced in the keynotes yesterday that there is java support on the PS2
I don't listen to CDs on my PS2, but I've been watching DVD movies on it for some time now, and love it. No need to waste money on a DVD player, when I already have a game machine that does that.
- sigs are for wimps.
And who says emulators should be free? Other than you?
:-)
? Where did I claim to be the representative of all opinions on planet earth.
To recoup those costs, they have to make money. That's a simple fact of life of the capitalist society in which we live.
I believe in making money for software, I just prefer emulators to be free, like the dozens of emulators out there for machines like Atari, Coleco, Apple II, etc.
All I said was they get no symphaty from me, not that there should be a law against what they're doing. Geez !
They have costs involved in coding them
MAME team does too, and theirs is a more robust and complicated product. Bleem must be doing something wrong !
- sigs are for wimps.
You can even get a cheaper PSOne, but the point is, I wanted to get a PS2 anyways, so it's a good thing for me.
- sigs are for wimps.
They get no sympathy from me.
I'm all for emulators, if they're free, as they should be.
Bye, bye Bleem !
- sigs are for wimps.
If i wanted JAVA on the PS2 i'd buy a PC. Hell, i have one.
You do that, I for one, can't wait make some cool games for it and play it on my TV while showing off to friends. I'm hoping they port the 1.4 VM which has better J2D support and fullscreen mode.
This is going to be too cool !
- sigs are for wimps.
All of the activity that's been going on in the PS2 camp of late has me sort of wondering... We've seen Linux support released, and read about Real Player, Netscape, Java and AOL coming to PS2.
So the question is this: What market is the PS2 in really? It's expanding well outside of the realm of our classic definition of a game console, deep into the territory of our PC's. But, OTOH, it doesn't suffer the clunky UI problems that our classic PC's face either. Is it a PC without the baggage of backward compatibility? Many people have thought about redesigning the PC's hardware and software from scratch to take full advantage of current technology; is the PS2 the fulfillment of that goal? If... no, when the PS2 is capable of all of the entertainment functions that we currently use our PC's for, what will the average family need a computer for?
Now, consider that this is the reason that MS is throwing in its Xbox...
That is to say, after losing in court three times, Sony has been pressuring retailers not to stock Bleemcast--and that could drive Bleem right out of business. This is something Slashdot people need to know--it affects your freedom to play the games you want how you want.
The above link includes contact information for most major retailers. Happy Slashdot-effecting.
--
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Now.
Who moderated this meaningless, off-topic, drivel to (2: Informative)? I hate getting moderated up for this kinda thing.
Brought to you by Frobozz Magic Penguin Fodder.
I would go ahead and prove you wrong but...
we have both spent WAY too much time on a subject that I only introduced to (sucessfully) bring me back down from the karma ceiling of 50.
Oh, damn it, I love a good argument. You say stable, I say potato.
Later.
Brought to you by Frobozz Magic Penguin Fodder.
That...
Was...
Funny. Thanks.
Brought to you by Frobozz Magic Penguin Fodder.
What I'd prefer to see is everyone EXCEPT Microsoft in on this in an attempt to finally beat the giant at one of its markets. We all know that no matter what courts say Microsoft is gonna be around for a looong time. If the other companies recognize this, perhaps we can finally get a little fair play.
If you think you know what the hell is going on you're probably full of shit. -- Robert Anton Wilson
If you think you know what the hell is going on you're probably full of shit. -- Robert Anton Wilson
jdube is who
Todays PC operating systems already isolate the programmer from the hardware so much that this is no longer an option.
Using querks works great for the Commodore 64. Every machine is identical.
But this can hold a game console maker back.
Some times game consoles have small improvments over time to keep up with compeating machines. Games that use querks may no longer work on the updated machines.
It is generally clear what they did when they do it. A plug in module into an existing game console. If some games don't work you can unplug the module.
I suspect they are looking at making the game consoles even more expandable so they can keep up with the ever improving console market.
Also most games today are made to be easy to move from platform to platform. Querks are a make or break issue when porting software.
I've writen a lot of games for the C64.. all for personal use. I never did make much use of querks. I did use a few.
I don't actually exist.
They'll have no social lives and never go outside.
IRC and Slashdot...
Back in the 1980s it was FidoNet and local chat BBSes.
Tomarow it'll be VR worlds and VR games...
My mother knew I wasn't out parting getting hooked on drugs...
She was worryed about the phone bill.
I don't actually exist.
Hopefully Sega and Sony will spend a hell of a lot of effort debugging this and not rush it out to market.
Maybe I should buy that ethernet module after all! What do you think?
Blar.
until($i,$see,$it) {$belief = undef}
People seem to be assuming the mystery game referred to in the article is Phantasy Star Online, but this IGN article says its Guru Guru Onsen 2, a collection of minigames including mahjong and poker. That's not to say PSO won't be multiplatform in the future; after all, it's already been announced for Gamecube, and it'd surely be cheaper for Sega to have GC users connect to the existing PSO servers.
No. You just have fewer friends;)
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
I believe the proper term was, indeed, stable.
Console systems all have a set of games availible on that platform often referred to as their "stable of titles". It is the same way we use the term to describe the group of athletes (or music stars, etc etc) agents represent (I'm thinking boxing agents here more than others..but I belive the argument still stands).
IE: Don King is famous both for his outrageous style and for his incredible stable of talent.
Once, Slashdot was a small, not very well known site which was frequented by technically minded people. Back then, you might have said there was a community. I don't even know if there was a "community" back when I signed up, but now it is certainly just the general public. (Don't be fooled by the marketing machine that is Slashdot, there's nothing particularly 7337 in signing up for a free account on a public message board, and karma is a joke that is easily, and often abused.)
Sony is the worst thing to happen to console gaming since Atari got bought by Time Warner and they forced out Nolan Bushnell. Their domination of the console industry is disgusting and blatantly based on shady practices, but as far as I know they have never played nice with the GPL. I mean heck, Sony practically is the DVD CCA and they are a big chunk of the music industry as well.
If Sony ever does come to monopolize the console industry, PC Gamers can rejoice. For on that day, the console industry will start a tailspin ending with a tremendous crash....
I don't think they will though, both Nintendo and Microsoft are as ruthless than they are, and both have a lot more potential as game console makers.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
One of the best things about programming a console game is that you can use neat little hacks to push the hardware to its limit. Anyone who's ever programmed an Amiga or a C-64 (or pretty much any uniform system) knows this. That's also the same reason why console games don't have operating systems. I think the new trend of cross-platform, OS-sporting consoles will kill the industry, because what's the difference between that and a computer?
------
There are already issues with people tweaking their computers a bit to gain unfair advantages in games like quake, this could lead to some interesting problems.
um. i know it is sorta offtopic, but has anyone like thought anymore about this linux running on an xbox idea? will it still work, or is ms doing something to prevent it... like it blows up or something if you alter the software. (no. wait. that would be a feature by default :)
Nevrar
Don't even send them to school!
---
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
More than ever, games are cross console. Aside from "house" staples like Mario and Final Fantasy. Games tend to come out on Nintendo/Sony/Sega systems simulatenously. Look at EA!
--
OliverWillis.Com
OliverWillis.Com
An Operative with an Agenda
This seems a little unbelievable to me. A console's bread and butter has always been its games. Sony paid a fortune to obtain exclusive rights to Final Fantasy, and a recent Wired article talked about how Nintendo used to bully software designers into not developing for Sega. Cross-console games are something of a rarity these days - Sony and MS both sell their consoles at a loss, making their money from the games. I can see Sega working together with the other companies now that its console is dead, but I can't see Nintendo, MS, and Sony teaming up in this regard.
while(!seen(it));
:)
believe(it);
Try thinking of it as a programming problem than as an English expression.
Hello little man. I will destroy you!
Before people think this means Sega is bringing back the Dreamcast, don't.
All this means is that Sega wan't to get as many people playing Phantasy Online 2 as possible, especially since now Sega is running it on a Pay-per-Play basis, not free as it was before.
The Dreamcast is still in its last days, and the although last few games will be good ones, this is indeed the end.
Just before the big crash of the 1980s, a lot of games were produced for multiple systems (Atari, Colecovision, Intellivision, etc). Companies streamlined the process and didn't take advantage of each system's strengths. The result was was generally crappy games.
Check out the history of Kool-Aid Man from Mattel. It describes the battles between marketing and programmers over developing for multiple systems.
I don't take issue with the article; I don't think that the article is really implying that there will be more cross-platform games. I do, however, take issue with timothy's comment,
"Which should mean more cross-platform games, so perhaps consoles can be bought and sold more on their merits than their stable of games."
More cross-platform games means creating lowest common denominator games, which will actually harm a console's ability to be bought and sold more on their merits, unless you mean those merits having nothing to do with playing games (ie: watching DVDs). If a game is designed to be cross-platform from day one, why spend the time/effort/money to specialize the game for a particular console's features? Look at the pre-Nintendo video game market crash; this was a big contributor.
Now on the other hand, when a game makes its debut on one console and subsequently appears on others, take Tony Hawk Pro Skateboarding for example, it is usually a good thing. The reason being that the game is developed by one group (Neversoft-THPS on PSX) taking full advantage of their chosen console, then handed off to another team (Edge of Reality-THPS on N64) who optimizes the game to take advantage of their console of choice. Many times the ported version doesn't quite live up to the original, but owners of another system get a similar experience. That will simply happen less if the focus is on developing for as many consoles as possible.
"You point your finger at the moon, the fool stares at your finger."
When they demoed this at JavaOne yesterday (which was not a gaming demo at all, but a chat demo), Java was running on top of Linux. At least I think it was Linux, based on the WindowMaker "desktop" in the background. This announcement seems to be closely tied to the Linux announcement made recently.
sadly, most console companies are only looking to allow for this kind of cross-console usability when they have completely control over it.
take a look at the war Sony has launch over the Bleem, hauling them into court on three separate occasions, and finally going after the retailers to prevent distribution of a product that let's you play PS games on a PC or Dreamcast.
yes, it's cool that you can play against other consoles, but these companies need to loosen the reigns a bit.
_f
if ($see_it) {
believe_it();
}
People shape laws. Not the other way around.
Talking between two pieces of hardware is the simplest of problems. Useful communication between applications is *far* more difficult, and will only really happen if the same game exists on both ends.
This is realistically the last summer for the Dreamcast. Not many games at all will come out for it after the Christmas season with MS and Nintendo's game boxes taking up all the attention. I can't imagine PS2 games coming out next year along with a DC "port" just so that a few more people can play online.
So, a few games that are created this summer might play between the PS2 and DC, along with Sega's Phantasy Star Online. Realistically, that's at most 5 games that support this. News, but irrelevant news.
Nathan Mates
News Flash
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
IMO, the key in the console market is getting your games to "play nicely" with pc games. I would hazard a guess that it'll be almost as important that they play nice with windows/DX games.
To be honest, I think the X-box has this covered quite nicely.
Allan
It's not competing platforms. Sadly Dreamcast died a quick death, and Sega are keen to move on.
People already have console wars on forums... now maybe they can be shown that the platform doesn't really matter, it's all about the games. I'm for anything that makes it more likely I'll be able to play the games I want without having to buy 3 different 200-300$ systems.
Its nice to see competeing platforms actually working together on something like this. Of course I can also see complaints that platform X is better at game Y then platform Z becoming the main topic on various forums.
staple (noun) - small metalic object used to hold papers together. Hurts like hell when you get one in your finger. Staple.
there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots
Actually, the original posters usage of "stable" is just fine. It has other definitions besides "where you keep horses".
4.5 years ago I bought a Sony VAIO on the cheap. The damn this came with a TV tuner, video capture, home-movie editing , phone answering machine software, etc. They actually thought their ghetto-ass P200 could replace 4 or 5 different appliances. Considering that the VAIO was slow and crash-prone and that the included software was univerally poor, I was not impressed. Call them visionary for trying, I call them dumb.
Sony's vision of a tightly intergrated digital future doesn't include anyone else's technology. All their devices are in one retarded family, linked by their incomprehensible love for Memory Sticks. Even sadder is the fact that Sony introduced the memory sticks (which still haven't caught on) at the same goddamn time Iomega et al were flodding the market with Zip, Jaz, Clik, Super Disk, and others. But I digress.
Sony's claim that the PS2 will become a whole "home entertainment center" is ludicrous. Yes the thing has pretty graphics and plays DVDs, but it doesn't mean its the greatest thing since DiVX ;-). Its support for DVDs and CDs is inferior to dedicated electronic products. But they're targeting the low end with this crap , you say. Have you looked at the price of VAIOs now? 4 years ago? Sony's attempts to provide an all-in-one deal have historically provided sub-standard equipment at premium prices. Therefore I look upon these claims with skeptism. Messages to Sony: Get A Clue.
Where has this person been living? I haven't seen Sonic for several years now, and frankly, I haven't missed Sonic, his sidekicks, enemies, rivals, or any of the other dorks from his cartoon show.
Systems are going to be so kool in the future that noone will ever leave their homes. My kids will be obese and always playing video games. They'll have no social lives and never go outside. And you know what, I'll be right next to them, fat and jolly eating hot-pockets. hahah Isn't the USA grand.
I don't really see how either definition works.
There are a few reasons why Nintendo, according to all the press releases and annual reports me and my son get, is waiting for Sony and Microsoft to do it first.
The most important reason, and one that has served Nintendo well in the past, is to let the other guys work out the bugs while Nintendo concentrates on getting better games than the other game box makers.
The second reason, and one that also has done well for Nintendo is simple - cost. By waiting for Microsoft, Sony, and their ilk to do all the intro and absorb the development costs, Nintendo can let the dust settle and implement it for a fraction of the cost once workable methods and devices are created. Sure, it misses a quarter or two at intro time, but in return each box makes a profit. And, with proper marketing, e.g. "Pikachu Player-to-Player modules! Buy them now! Trade with your friends!", Nintendo can keep the box price low enough ($200USD) to beat out xBox and the others, and have the players who want the add-on pay a small cost to upgrade; this is only part of the market - cause bad dads like me don't buy stuff that lets their kids play on the Net.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
I read a post-E3 interview with the Nintendo frontman, who said the gamecube wouldn't have any online abilities.
He said Nintendo wasn't convinced they could make money out of it.
I found the link to the original story. I hope they do do it but I'm not getting my hopes up :(
eat shit and die, Bambi!
Actually, Connectix has already formed a partnership with Nintendo and is producing both V.90 modem and Ethernet adapters. If you look at pictures of the back of the console, there's a sort of cut-out portion near the bottom where the adapters will fit. I'm not aware if they've set a price yet.
No, it's "stable" as in the horse stable... a horse stable contains all of your horses, which are there to be ridden and are the whole reason you built the stable in the first place. This software stable is the collection of games which run on your platform, and are the reason that people buy it in the first place.
Which brings me to my second point - there are very few cross platform games for a reason. Unlike the PC/Mac arena, where producing a cross-platform version is purely a function of whether it is worth the time and effort to do so, the console arena is much more competitive. Not only is there all the extra work (and due to fundamentally different and limited hardware, that conversion can be MORE difficult than a Mac/PC issue where graphics card APIs are semi-standardized and differences in cpu performance can be adjusted for by requiring a faster processor), but there are also huge licensing fees which the console maker levys to recoup the loss they take in console sales. Furthermore, the very best of the games are often produced in house, and if not are frequently the subject of exclusive deals.
Hardware specs are great. If Sony/Sega/Nintendo/MS were competing purely on the merits of their hardware it would be a very different world (though probably no less complicated due to differences in design philosophy). But when you get down to business, it's really all about the games. That's why I would never have bought an N64, even though it's graphics were somewhat better than the PS1.
This Dreamcast/PS2 deal is just an exception. It's merely a way for Sega to ease the transition to a software-only company. Sony is agreeing because while hardware Sega was a competitor (whose console/game philosophy was uncomfortably close to sony's), software Sega is a powerful, skilled, and valuable ally and is well worth the small investment.
cryptochrome
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
IGN (*shudder*) already ran a story on "Aero Dancing i" would be playable online between Dreamcasts and PC's...(but only in Japan).
The article can be found here (plain-text link for the goat paranoid):
http://dreamcast.ign.com/news/35465.html
I'd love to see JAVA ported to the GBA. 16Mhz RISC power baby. Reading my e-mails through that nifty cellphone plugin. That would be great.
If i wanted JAVA on the PS2 i'd buy a PC. Hell, i have one.
keep it simple.
Nintendo execs had been in talks with Microsoft's XBox product team to license selections from the back-catalog of Nintendo games for sale as XBox "Arcade Classics" titles, much like Namco, Bally et al. had done for a few Windows entertainment titles.
The first planned release was a Nintendo-branded XBox port of the original NES Super Mario Brothers trilogy.
Apparently, the talks ended when Microsoft insisted on bundling Bowser with the OS.
I saw this article on CNN this morning and was a little confused. Given that Sega had announced Phantasy Star Online for PS2 (and Gamecube) a while back, wasn't it always implied that there would be cross-platform play?
Or was I assuming too much? Was it understood (until today) that each console would have its own servers, with no interaction between the user groups?
Well, great news in any case. My only peeve is that I probably won't be able to transfer my existing PSO chars to the PS2 (Gamecube) version, which will probably probably have nicer graphics. ^_^
It's really nice to see that Sony's going to capitalize on Sega's work and bring good online gaming to the playstation sheep, but where the hell is NINTENDO? gar! Sure the article says Sega is making deals with Nintendo, but look at what Yamauchi is saying! "...online games are only for the hardcore gamer." I'm not sure what I'm supposed to think about that. It's hard not to see it as a middle finger, but maybe I'm overly sensitive :)
Irregardless of this "gesture" from Yamauchi-san, I'm planning on jumping to the Gamecube in the fall (since the life is slowly draining from my beloved Dreamcast) but it's gonna be a real bummer if there's no hope of playing anything online ever... The Xbox is just too expensive (I don't need another DVD player, or that GIGANTIC CONTROLLER... but if Jet Set Radio Future remains an exclusive, I'll probably cave in.
-- neko wa kowai
"Segaony".... but you can only play "Aliens" genre games on it because of the implicit omage to "Segaony Weaver"
--
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
As the arcade scene is dying, I'd hate to see consoles follow. Not that it would happen, as video games are now a major source of entertainment for many Americans, and for many folks outside the US.
But he has a point. If the consoles don't have individual games that sell the system, then consoles could find one company dominating and ruining the market.
For example I bought my Dreamcast specifially for SoulCalibur and I'll probably get the GameCube just for Metroid Prime. Eventually I'll break down and get a PS2 when there's a better selection of good games. Right now I don't like but a few of the games on the PS2, and frankly with Rare and Retro doing 1st party development for Nintendo, I know there will be some good games for the Gamecube.
And to those who think that Nintendo is all about kids, just look at all of the adult games that have come out since the release of the N64, like Duke Nukem, Mortal Kombat, Doom, Quake, GoldenEye, etc.
I'm a gamer at heart and I know that Nintendo will make a come back. And hey, if the games are fun, who cares if they are oriented at kids. Funfactor is way more important than gore or violence.
I think its great that for once some of the gaming companies are finally getting along.. It'll be the day where most games are compatible with most/all systems, and the only reason you'd buy different systems is for the different abilities that the company supplies, such as how powerful the console is or the cost, etc.. that way I won't have to worry about buying one system, but missing out on a third of the new games because the developers all went their seperate ways :) Now the next step.. having all of the boxes run unix variants to make easily portable games.. :) Just a thought..
just a question to the community:
Do you think, as a console maker, it would be more, or less beneficial, to make your system easy to port in and out of? I think it would be good on the side that says that many more developers would consider making their games compatible with your system, but at the same time, since it would easily be a two-way street then (porting usually isn't a one-way street between 2 os's), the same games would be available for other consoles, thus possibly driving some consumers away from your system since the other may be better, etc.. I think this problem would probably have to be solved through testing it, since there's no way to predict what's gonna go on in the minds of people, now is there?
This bit of info was brought to you by the letter Q. Thanks, Q.
Nice to see console developers learning from the PC/Mac world. Gamers will be better off having a larger pool of potential opponents and teammates. I don't see how Sony is involved any more than Microsoft or Apple was involved with Blizzard creating Diablo 2 or Starcraft for PC and Mac.
This makes a lot more sense to the average consumer that just wants to get on the web, have a game console for their kids and not have to worry about device drivers, software upgrades, "is my system compatible with yours" and all of the other B.S. that is associated with having a PC.
The only caveat being that they have to ensure that they're going to have a fast, stable system that is easily maintained (maybe using a broadband connection to do automatic upgrades). And the best part is, you don't have to spend money on a monitor!