Slashdot Mirror
Death of a Rebel
jwunderl writes: "Just a quick word to let you know that Rebel, who took over the NetWinder line from Corel has gone the way of the dodo. Claining a failed partnership with Fuji, the company informed it's creditors it could no longer continue. The full story is available at the Ottawa Citizen's page." Linux appliances don't seem to be the sure-sell that everyone thought they would be.
The problem was for private companies like mine. Call for a quote? Never call you back. Call again for a quote? Send you a quote for the wrong items. Call for service? "Call the manufacturer, it's not our problem". I did manage to drop a few tens of thousands into them over the years because they did have good prices (over say... Sun Canada, which wasn't saying much). They were the quintessential canadian business: buy something from someone else, and sell it for a higher price, and offer nothing added.
Then they did this whole $5million for James Dean and scribbling "LINUX LINUX LINUX" over everything. I could never get a quote out of them again. I will not miss them.
1- They paid a fortune for the 'James Dean' image and the Rebel.com domain. .com heyday) Flush with Corel money, they went on a 'branding' and 'mindshare' quest. woohoo.
I remember hearing $6 million at the time. I could be wrong (especially since I thought it was way too much money, even in the
2- The hardware remained essentially the same years after its introduction.
(Since Rebel.com is down, I can't verify though) Why would I pay a premium price for a 266Mhz StrongARM, when I can get a crazy PIII Celeron system for cheaper. At the time it was introduced, the NetWinder was a decent price point (as a dedicated web server), but not now.
3- Out of their league.
Hardware Computer Canada (HCC) was a small reseller before becoming Rebel.com, and trying to compete with the likes of VA Linux, Sun, and whoever else. They also lost sight of the fact that NetWinders appealed to geeks, and they tried to reposition it as an workgroup office server (an underpowered office server, that is)
Anyway, take what I say with a grain of salt, since they haven't been on my radar screen for a while, and since the site is down, I can't verify what I'm stating based upon today's information. And you can't trust AC's. *wink*
The hardware (at least from outside) looks very cool
Hetz (Heunique)
Linux appliances are a good idea, but thee needs to be some serious inroads into making them affordable, or you might as well not even start.
Too bad they couldn't have died in a blaze of glory like their namesake.
Explain why Wal-Mart can't sell them (There seems to be a LOT of them in their clearance areas- all models including the newest top of the line with the HD...) and they've reached the saturation point such that places like Big Lots and MacFrugal's (closeout stores) are trying to move them now.
WebTV's interface stinks and for many TV's it's painful to use because the NTSC set doesn't have the requisite sharpness to even do 60dpi.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Okay, dildos aside, how many of those actually are going to happen?
Yes, I'm still a junky. Are you still a bitch?
Incorporate your home as a non-profit shelter for orphaned hardware and take the write-offs.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Some folks seem to confuse the way Netwinders were first used (as development desktops for the eventual product) with what they really were: appliance servers.
I saw their latest model a couple of weeks ago at PC Expo. It was a nice iteration of the Cobalt Qube/Whistler InterJet concept: a small-office smail/print/gateway/firewall/file/web server. It had a nice interface and a bit more flexibility in the web GUI than a Qube. The RISC processor was traded in for a Transmeta chip, and the OS was a 2.4.x kernel and a lot of recent package revs on top of a stable RedHat 6.2 base.
But the Qube isn't what made Cobalt the big success it is. Cobalt made (and makes) its money from selling the RaQ series: turnkey virtual-hosting servers to web hosting providers. Same hardware, different enclosure, but a different software mix and a different customer. The Qube sells, and they continue to make them because it's cheap to do as long as the hardware is taken care of by the RaQ R+D. But it's not their core business.
Rebel also had products closer to the RaQ model, but where they arguably had a nicer Qube than the Qube, their other products were inferior to the competition on the software side. You can do batch configuration of dozens or hundreds of RaQs out of the box. Corel and Rebel didn't get that far.
On another note, Rebel was an outgrowth of HCC, a Canadian VAR. They had a sales team that was no doubt good at doing direct sales to Canadian companies and government agencies, but probably not as good at getting things into the mainstream corporate sales channels: the catalog vendors. Rebel machines, like Cobalts,a are appliances. They generally get installed and configured by the customer, not by a consultant from a VAR.
Ever seen CDW or Insight or PC Mall selling Rebels? They sure as heck sell Cobalts, and keep them on hand. Anyone know if Rebel machines are available through Ingram? Were they widely available from any major disttributors in the US and Europe? Were the distributors and large corporate resellers educated on it and get the collateral and training necessary to sell it effectively? Call some web hosting providers and see if they had a Rebel rep calling them to sell them on their RaQ-ish machines. Bet they didn't.
My guess is HCC misjudged the product when they bought it from Corel and didn't know how to sell it properly. And that they also lacked the marketing and sales skills in the markets it belonged in, which were different from HCC's core.
Damn, I wish hardware vendors would get this through their heads. Repeat after me: Special-purpose "information appliances" don't sell. No one wants them. Pundits have been running at the mouth about information appliances and digital convergence and the death of the PC since the 80's and it just isn't happening. I can't think of a single dumb idea that's been "the next big thing" for nearly as long. How many times does this crap have to crash and burn before VCs stop pouring money into it?
--
Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
All these Linux-based appliances are failing for one reason:
They're Linux-based appliances first, appliances second.
Come in with a sound business plan and a device that fills a niche, and happen to use Linux on it, and you'll clean up.
Come in with Linux in your head and try to build a "cool" device, then try and graft on a half-ass business plan, and you'll fail.
Duh.
-
Linux appliances don't seem to be the sure-sell that everyone thought they would be.
It doesn't matter if they're running Linux, BeOS or WinCE. No Internet appliances have taken off they way they were predicted. Paying $300 for an appliance when you can get a full featured computer for $400 is a really hard sell.
F.O. Dobbs
The problem with netwinders is that they were overpriced, underpowered, and too loud (!) for the home hobbyist market.
Speaking of being loud, have a look at these fan modifications to make it quiet enough to leave on all the time.
There's also a good series of NetWinder internalspictures. It's a great little machine for hacking on.
Enjoy your job, make lots of money, work within the law. Choose any two.
Yesterday Andrew E. Mileski, a senior software developer at Rebel.com, posted the following to the netwinder.announce newsgroup on netwinder.org:
Enjoy your job, make lots of money, work within the law. Choose any two.
That's a pretty dumb statement to make. Linux is doing very well in the small "appliance" space. All of the handheld makers except for MS are looking to run linux on their devices, all of the TV set to box makers are looking to run linux, and everywhere else I look besides the desktop, companies are falling over themselves to draw up a business plan for linux in their small devices. You must not read the same press releases I do. More and more if its a samll multifunction device especially for the home, we are seeing linux inside. Keep in mind many of the people who read Slash daily these days are PHB's and for them to hear one of the "linux community" doubt linux in an area were it is doing well is needless FUD.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
No, the number reported to the SEC includes stuff like past losses (their purchase of Cygnus) amortized over time for tax purposes - it's money they've already paid, but that they're just now reporting. The adjusted (that is, not munged for tax purposes) numbers are the ones you want to look at. See the previous slashdot article for details.
Become a FSF associate member before the low #s are used
Rebels were never competing for the $500 bracket. Try three times that. The problem with netwinders is that they were overpriced, underpowered, and too loud (!) for the home hobbyist market.
I seriously looked into getting one, but the 275 Mhz strongarm, single-digit GB HD and double digit MB RAM just couldn't justify the ~ $1500 pricetag, esp as lower end AMDs easily outclassed them in pretty much all regards other than form factor.
The form factor would have been cool (as would the second eth port) if it weren't for the fact that the fan by accounts was quite loud, meaning that the lack of a power switch became a liability.
For the same price as a rebel, I could (and did) just as well buy a nonname laptop, be generous with RAM+HD, get more processor power, silent operation, and get an LCD and a battery (albeit a crap battery life, but more than adequate as a 30 min UPS) for free. AND the ability to dual boot into windows for the occasional game.
Rebel going under isn't a shame, it's just plain common sense. They had pretty much ZERO advantage with which to compete. And I DID try hard to justify getting one, as they were so damn cool, but just couldn't.
In this case, Rebel is was in my opinion having problems because they were unable to carry through their promise of "total network management". Their service was supposed to totally manage a network for a small company from ground 0 ... they would handle any problem and necessary network reconfigurations.
In practice their techs have proven to be less than knowledgeable and incapable of trouble shooting problems. In the end, our marketing guy knew more about trouble shooting the network then they did.
The problem was not the technology. It was 100% an execution problem.
Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
They're still working on an assumption that the majority of potential customers are PC illiterates who prefer limited-tasking, ease of use systems to full-featured, flexible computers.
Granted, there was a time when this held true. Look at the popularity of the electronic "word processors" from companies like Brother in the late 80's to early 90's. Where are they all now?
The fact is, the world is becoming more computer literate all the time. The current generation has grown up with the PC, and learned all the basics of using it in gradeschool.
Just the other day, I met a couple who live in a very poor part of town. They live in the upstairs bedrooms of a burnt-out house, with only 2 working electrical outlets and questionable plumbing (hot water runs to the toilet, and their sink only runs cold water). They can't afford a vehicle, so they both take the bus to work each day. Still, they own 2 computers and have a DSL Inet connection. They told me "We find the Internet and computers more fun and more useful than something like owning a car - so that's why we spent our money where we did."
They were selling SERVERS!
This was not a "Linux" company. They could have used anyting they wanted to on their servers. They were selling little plug-n-play boxes that served files, printers, web access, ect...
Where the hell do you get off bashing the commercial viability of Linux? They were not "giving away software", they were selling hardware. If they had used software that thay had to licence from some huge redmond corp, they would have gone belly up faster becouse their costs would be even higher for boxes that do the exact same thing.
1 company that makes money and uses Linux?
Easy! TIVO.
Rebel's problem was they they were to busy trying to brag about the fact that they used Linux instead of braging about how they fixed customers problems.
When was the last time you heard a Tivo commercial that said "Our product is great becouse we use Linux. So buy it!"
Duh.
Why is it so hot? Where am I going? What am I doing in this handbasket?
I like how, for most Americans, only poor people ride the bus. After all, if someone had the money, they'd surely purchase an automobile (hopefully an SUV or some sports car) so they could show everyone!
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
The netwider was a nice little box... It would be nice if they just released all the plans for it - (open source hardware) but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
BlackNova Traders
Again, Netwinders were not intended as computer replacements. They are for an office environment. You can use them as file/print/web servers, if you have two branches, you can use them to VPN your lans together. They are not a mass market type of product. They also have lots of problems and are too expensive, which is why Rebel.com went out of business. I would definitely buy a Netwinder-type product for my office, if the price was right. It wasn't.
Josh Sisk
First of all Rebel was not selling the OS they where selling hardware.
1. The Tivo line which is just what Rebel was a box with Linux inside.
2. Cheapbytes.com keep in mind profitable does not mean huge.
3. My consulting side job. I make a tidy profit using and giving away Linux.
3. Sun with the whole qube thing.
4. IBM with all the hardware with Linux on it that they sell.
5. I would assume most of these people (http://www.linuxports.com/guide/consultants/)
6. I have not looked in a while but I think Loki is also.
You are right selling Linux is most likely not a good idea but selling hardware and servicing that hardware is a *very* good idea. The basic concept behind the Netwinder was not flawed. It would seem the implementation was though.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
You assume I'm Canadian living in Canada and voting in Canada. Wrong.
--- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
RE: It's remarks like that that undermine the success of Canada as a world leader in industry and commerce.
Yeah, that Canada. A huge juggernaut economically, whoo-ee. But with an economy smaller than Indonesia's. By the way.
RE: It is also a false statement. You would have readers believing that Canada does not subsidize (through investments)
You meant to say TAXES. When's tax freedom day? July 15th? Work hard, young Canadian. We've got Quebecois and Atlantic Canadians to subsidise and tons and tons of HDRC and other Liberal slush funds to feed, never mind the shady loans to golf courses the PM part-owned.
RE: other industries outside of Quebec. What about the oil and gas exploration industries (offshore and in the west),
Ask Albertans how much they ended up seeing of that money once the NEP kicked into effect, coincidentally so Quebec and Ontario wouldn't be TOO overburdened paying market rates, and so Westerners wouldn't get any stupid ideas about being anything other than those that make the money so that Sucking Central can spend it.
--- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
Actually they ship their most talented people out to try and earn a real living in other countries. It's called the brain drain. Which officially doesn't exist. Mind you, 67% of every graduated Comp Sci class going IMMEDIATELY to the US of A would have some people worrying. That is, those who don't vote themselves a 42% pay raise in one year...
--- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
Oh, right, sorry. I forgot (consults Red Book) subsidies other countries make to their industries is UNFAIR, but those Canada makes to selected (read: vote the right way, in the right province) companies is just good public policy, levelling the playing field, right thing to do, no, I never owned no shares in no golf course, etc.
--- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
Reasons?
Let's take the CBC. Ever watched any of its broadcasting? "CANADA: A History - long boring monologues featuring people in period costume ranting at the camera.". The Littlest Hobo. Katts and Dog. Yet Another Anne Murray/Bachman Turner Overdrive/Burton Cummings special. Cooking With Bruno Gerussi. How about some entertainment? Sorry, gotta reflect Canadian values. Right.
And its reporting? "Coming up next: Stockwell Day: How this Christian will Ruin Canada. And after that: Our beloved PM, the tough little guy from Shawinigan, decisively crushed some upstarts. And after that, a panel phone-in show, where we'll subtly dig at right wingers the entire time and then slander everyone we feel like as unCanadian and the spawn of Satan. Coming up next season: Four doumentaries on the SAVIOUR OF CANADA Pierre Trudeau, and a rebroadcast of all 14 days coverage of his funeral."
--- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
No, I wouldn't. Giving tax money to companies doesn't make them competitive. It makes them bloated. Companies that work for what they want to achieve tend to make it. And note: if I tax company A to give money to company B in an effort to make it "more competitive", I bankrupt A, don't help B in any way whatsoever (it papers over its internal problems and has no incentive to improve), and end up screwing up the economy.
Especially if said companies are given grants based on where they are located and the political connections they have.
If I was "in charge" I would neither help the Ontarian nor the Quebecois business. It's up to the ECONOMY to decide. Whichever one is more competitive and the better company will win.
--- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
RE: The great thing about democracy is you get to pick and choose.
If I was still living in Canada, would I still have the right to decide whether or not to be taxed more than 50% to pay for that leftie enclave? No. Thanks for playing. Nice try on the "you get to pick" thing.
RE: Have you heard of Sturgeon's Law.
Damn right - that's the one that says Bruno and Boots had better watch it.
RE: Yes, I recognize some of those shows as week. (Although I don't think Bruno Gerussi's show has been on for over ten years. And this link I dug up makes it look like it would be more correct to characterize the Littlest Hobo as a CTV production.)
I'll correct two typo's. You meant to say "weak" rather than "week" - and you meant to say "all" rather than "some".
RE: As for the subtle digs at right wingers? You know what, if you talk to those on the lunatic fringe of the left they will tell you the CBC has a right wing bias.
I think calling President Bush a "retard-executin' moron" or whatever that fat cow on This Hour Has 22 Minutes called him was overt. Ditto on the Stockwell Day quote unquote humour.
RE: They will point out that between them CBC and CBC Newsworld has something like a dozen hours a week of business oriented programming -- but not one labour oriented show.
And what would they discuss on this labour oriented show? "Work and how to avoid it?" "More pay for less work?" "French - how it can get you promotions you aren't entitled to?"
--- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
The government would have bailed them out with a couple of billion dollar grants *cough BOMBARDIER cough*
--- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
You've got to be kidding me. Have you never used a search engine or heard of these other products? Cobalt Velociraptor NetMAX FireWall Suite GnatBox GB-XXX SonicWALL Not to mention the 100 other ones. -mark