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MandrakeSoft Going Public In France July 30
LiteForce writes: "MandrakeSoft are going public on July 30th on the European Stock Exchange. U.S. residents are not currently eligible to take part (only French residents are permitted). You can read the scoop on MandrakeSoft's site here." This is the IPO (then in progress) mentioned here shortly ago, but now they have the go-ahead; there's also an exchange on Mandrake's discussion forum. Congratulations over there!
And as Yahoo! proved, just because you're in the US doesn't mean the French won't bust you.
To be fair, the FBI will try to get you wherever you are from as well. In conclusion, it sucks to be the little guy. Thank you.
Tthe largest installed base of Mandrake users(and the largest number of developers who contribute to Mandrake's product) are NOT French.
Visions of the whole RedHat IPO scandal, floatin' through my mind...nothin' like excluding your user base and most of your developers!
The Button has "Press if you have read this information". Doesn't say anything about whether it applies to you.
Here's a tidbit of information: Australia != New Zealand
Anyone other than me a little confused at the regulations that require this webpage not to be distributed or viewed in the US? If France can put a tiny disclaimer on a webpage that demands that noone in the US read the remainder of the site, and that somehow fullfils some legal responsibility, why can't Yahoo do exactly the same with their Nazi oriented auctions and whatever else France deems worthy of filing an international lawsuit over? Stupid frogs.
When IPOs go to the nouveau marche or second marche, for which you have more conditions to fulfill, and where most mid and small caps go, anyone can subscribe.
Anyone know what the legalise is? Appearently Canadians, Americans, Austrillians, and a few other cannot invest in this.
Now I can understand their IPO might not be legal in those countries, and I can understand that they might have decided not to allocate pre-IPO stock to anyone from those countries. I'm fairly sure however that once they IPO there is nothing to prevent people from those countries from investing in the stock if they want to.
Still, it is fairly easy to agree that you are not a US citician and get the information, such as it is. (not much)
So is there a french law in effect here?
We got the statue in 1886, which if math still works, was well before two wars.
:)
So either our help in the wars was a thank you for it, or they still owe us
-- "It's a sad day for American capitalism when a man can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park" - Jim Moran
watch this IPO go down like the cleavage of a French maid. Looks like they missed the dot com bust-nobody is interested in companies that try to make money selling stuff anyone can get for free.
---
If they really did intend that only French residents should read the information, as the legalese states, do you really think they'd bother putting up a copy in English?
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
This IPO will be a very interesting indication of the "true" value of Linux in the market. Previously we watched stocks of other linux based IPOs rocket up when they opened only to crash and then crash further as the dot.comedies failed. I guess this is only applicable for frenchies but still it should give us a little more insight into linux from the stance of the business/market world.
Watch this one closely...
prosebeforehos.com
Well, after they go public you'll be able to find out what their financial status is, instead of using rumors. My impression was that they were trying to get profitable quickly. Now I think I know why.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Well, to many of us it appearently doesn't matter anyway, so humor is, perhaps, the best approach.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Or perhaps Monica Lewinski?
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Now go away, or I will rm -rf / you a second time.
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
The Euronext stock exchange where the other reply to this post says that Mandrakesoft will IPO is the merger of only 3 of Europe's stock exchanges.
And of course:
"They even have Groundskeeper Willie teaching French."
"Bonjourrrrrr, ya cheese eatin surrrender-monkies!"
if ($it != $onething) {$it = $another;}
I meant no offence. Its just a quote from The Simpsons (one of the finest satirical shows ever made, IMHO). Its not intended as a statement of policy.
And I do know that the French helped us out in the Revolution. Baron DeKalb, a Frenchman killed at the Battle of Camden (my home town) is the only person buried on the grounds of the church I went to as a kid.
France and the US make jokes about each other, but I really think it doesn't mean any more than two rival schools making jokes about each other. Its usually pretty childish, but its also usually pretty harmless.
if ($it != $onething) {$it = $another;}
True, but Gen. Pershing, upon arriving in France to help them out in the War to End All Wars, declared something along the lines of, 'Lafayette, we have come to repay our debt!' I can't remember the exact phrasing, but the gist was that he was expressing his gratitude to Lafayette and the French for their help in the American Revolution.
I always make a point of differentiating between the French of the 1770s and the French of the 1930s when making retreat&surrender jokes. There is a French officer, Baron DeKalb, buried in the churchyard of the church I went to as a kid. He was killed at the Battle of Camden (where Cornwalis was headquartered for most of the war), and the main drag where US1 goes through town, is named DeKalb street. One of the main town parks is Lafayette Square.
Some Americans know our history.
if ($it != $onething) {$it = $another;}
Pardon my historical failings, but weren't you guys already fighting the Brits when the (American) war of 1812 broke out? I thought the whole war started over the British impressing American sailors into their navy to fight Napolean and the French. France is defeated in 1814, before the war in the New World is over, with Napolean exiled to Elba. And the war ended in 1815, roughly contemporaneously with the return of Napolean and his subsequent defeat at Waterloo. I'm not denying that there may have been French help in the war (I don't know of it, but its possible), but it would certainly have been more as a part of your own pre-existing war.
Protectionism was rampant throughout the Western world in the 19th century, and the American South was opposed to it, to the point where South Carolina drew up articles of nullification, nullifying two federal tarrif acts, in the 1840s prompting President Jackson to draw up articles of force authorizing the use of the US Army to prevent South Carolina from ceceding from the Union. This is 15 years before the start of the civil war. After the civil war the political power of the south is of course almost nil, and the protectionism by the industrialists of the north goes unchallenged for most of the rest of the century.
Much of my fact checking and timeline checking was done using The History Channel's website, with the remainder being filled in from my high school and college history courses over a decade ago, so there may be mistakes and distortions here.
if ($it != $onething) {$it = $another;}
Yes - the French helped the colonists - quite a bit actually. Not because they believed in freedom or that there should be no king - since it was king Louis XVI offering the help - but simply because the king hated the British... his grandfather having lost the Seven Years War and most of their foreign possessions he was pissed off. By helping the colonists he was having his army fight a proxy war -- trying to indirectly get back at those who had beaten them. And it gets worse -- if it weren't for the vengfulness a French king, the Americans may not have won their freedom and inspired the French citizens to oust that very same king (and execute him). Funny how things turn out.
Well, most nations who had to fight Germany in the early WWII got all crushed and overwhelmed. It is not so much a matter of size but that Germany was using modern weapons with modern tactics. On the other side France for example was still into the WWI-style wars, with long endless fights and fixed positions. The Maginot line of defense was made for a WWI type of fight. When the Nazi tanks and bombers came along, this type of defense was totally inadequate (but when they found out, it was way too late).
This is due to laws in the countries mentioned about their citizens investing in foriegn IPOs.
Don't whine about how this guarantees the destruction of Mandrakesoft.
BUY SOME MANDRAKESOFT STOCK!!
Get your own voice in the company and be heard. The company goes the way the stockholders say, and if the stockholders say "go for the long term," then they'll go for the long term.
The problem is with the stock holders and their new "more more more now now now" approach. If you think you'd be better, then buy your way into mandrakesoft BEFORE they do.
Not everyone who would like to has that option. I don't understand why this is. Why would even an,at best, socialist democracy-like country such as France want to inhibit the growth of their companies? Or perhaps they are trying to protect them from a relentless US market... Or perhaps Mandrake made this decision all by themselves? Don't know...
Russian Russian Russian RussianDollSig DollSig DollSig DollSig
PETA - People for the Eating of Tasty Animals
This is not the sig line you are looking for... -- Old Jedi Sig Line Trick
Here is the email sent out from mandrake with the announcement:
Subject:
Linux-Mandrake Community Newsletter - special flash
Date:
Thu, 19 Jul 2001 22:33:04 +0200 (CEST)
From:
Mandrake Team
Mandrakesoft yesterday got the formal approval from the COB (Commission
des Operations en Bourse - the french regulatory organisation) to be
listed on the Euronext european stock market "Marché Libre". The listing
should start on the 3rd of August.
After the recent big success of its Mandrake Linux operating system in
terms of market penetration, MandrakeSoft's listing is an important step
for the company to gain still more exposure and more credibility on the
corporate IT markets.
We will soon provide more informations on our web site
(http://www.mandrakesoft.com).
MandrakeSoft's President Jacques Le Marois would like to thank everyone
who helped make this listing possible:
- all the Mandrakesoft team that helped to build the company
- the shareholders who funded it
- the contributors who helped to improve the product
- the users who helped by spreading the good word about our products
------------
Wheeeee
After all, softie probably has a copyright on the word "soft".
Unfortunately, the Germans had their attack so precisely planned against France in the event of a European war that by the time Kaiser Wilhelm was made aware of this, and attempted to call off the preemptive invasion of France, his generals were fully in control and would allow no interference.
This fact, combined with Kaiser Wilhelm's intentional arms race with Britain, does place a fair amount of responsibility on Germany's shoulders. Russia's government probably would have fallen almost instantly in the force of a combined Austria-Hungary and German assault.
Oh, and the Ottoman Empire, my understanding is, never wanted to be in the war in the first place, but were persuaded by German economic pressure. I don't blame them for not wanting in, they ended up being something of a testbed for risky, experimental military strategies (Lawrence of Arabia doing nationalist guerilla warfare, and the Australia/New Zealand amphibious assault at Galipoli coming immediately to mind), and what was left of their country was dismantled after the war, as with Austria-Hungary.
In some ways, Germany got off pretty easy, at least they got to keep their country, no one tried to split them back up into Holy Roman Empire states!
The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
So are there legal rammifacations in this forum for all the people distrubting info on the page cause god knows I'm a US person and I can read this forum? Seems like a stupid stipulation to have on a page publically available on the web and written in english and not the native language of the country that the IPO is directed at (as was mentioned earlier in a different post).
"You can now flame me, I am full of love,"
U.S. residents are not currently eligible to take part (only French residents are permitted).
that is odd, although i am not doubting it, but i got an email from Mandrakesoft asking me to fill out an html form for my personal information as i was a "Community Member/Contributor" (i am a credited linux kernel contributor).
i assumed this was for IPO (or other stock) access, but the CREDITS file clearly lists me as a US resident -- so, if the stock is French-only, why did they bother? i questioned originally why i received the notice because i assumed the stock would be in a french market and thus off-limits to me.
perhaps there are some other benefits? did anyone else receive the email? i was not planning taking advantage of the offer, but it was interesting nonetheless.
-- Robert
This is a country that thinks Jerry Lewis and David Hasselhof is quality entertainment.
I'm not sure how this would affect the Mandrake IPO, but it will either be REALLY good or REALLY bad.
Good luck Mandrake - I hope you know what you're doing...
[Connection closed by foreign host]
I think a lot of the bitterness arises from how quickly France fell to Germany; the maginot line was specifically designed to resist any sort of German attack, and the French army at the time was considered more than a match for Germany, yet they still crumbled in a few hours. Of course the Brits didn't exactly cover themselves with glory in the early part of the war, either.
--
Actually, I read somewhere that French tanks of the time were superior to the German ones, though admittedly the German tactics were pretty effective against an enemy used to trench warfare.
--
You can buy MandrakeSoft's shares if you're American, you fucking moron. This stuff is just legalese put there by lawyers because of complex regulations, but of course that does not prevent you from buying shares on the French stockmarket.
By the way, please allow me to be as stupid and nationalist as you are: we bailed your ass twice (independence and 1812) against the Brits, and that did not prevent you from adopting a fully protectionist trade policy against us during the whole 19th century, until 1914. So I really don't see your point.
> I'm not denying that there may have been French
:-) ?
> help in the war (I don't know of it, but its
> possible)
Does "marquis de Lafayette" sound familiar to you
Actually the French had quite modern weapons and could have used modern tactics too: De Gaulle, among others, had advocated them, but had not been taken seriously.
The Maginot line made more sense than it is thought today. Many people think that it was designed to stop the Germans, which is not the case: it was designed to make sure that the Germans would have to go around (via the North and a more difficult natural environment), so that the French would know where to wait for them. Indeed, they did go around, but not exactly where expected, and the French did not stop them anyway.
To me, the key mistake in French's strategy has been to send large, mediocre, non-professional troops, while the Germans had sent small, elite, highly professional units. Sending professional units was the right strategy because neither the German nor the French populace were motivated and willing to fight: the memories of WWI (read: by far the most horrible butchery in the history of the world) were fresh.
On a side note, this kind of situation is typical of a fight between a democratic country and a despotic country; the first battles, as Tocqueville predicted, are always lost by the democratic country. And then the democratic country can win if the conflict lasts. But, well, because the memories of WWI were too fresh, almost nobody in France wanted the conflict to last: peace was all what mattered, whatever the cost.
The elements of the Versailles treaty which specifically originated from the French were the huge amounts of reparations. Otherwise, you're right, the rest of the treaty was the work of the allies. It is taught in French schools that the Versailles treaty was considered as an excessively harsh "diktat" by the Germans, and this, in part, fueled German frustration and Hitler's rise. That is correct, but I really think that the Versailles treaty was just a medium among others for Hitler's rise, which would have happened anyway. The point on which I disagreed with the poster above was not the fact that the Versailles treaty fueled, in the long run, Hitler's rise, but that, more specifically, the amount of reparations did: the impact of the reparations was really strong no later than 10 years before Hitler seized power. It is reasonable to consider that the two things are only very loosely connected.
Otherwise, on the respective responsibilities for WWI... you're right of course, that all the belligerents have a significant share of responsibility. Still, the Austrian empire and Russia are more responsible than others. For years, there had been numerous Balkan crises in which the Austrian empire was involved, and the Austrian empire (and to, a lesser extent, the Ottoman empire and Russia) was for a large part responsible for the constant instabilities in this area.
When the Austrian empire declared war on Serbia, this crisis looked no different than the previous ones. But this is where Russia plays a key role: in the name of "Slavic solidarity" with Serbia, it declared war to the Austrian Empire without consulting its British and French allies. Then, because of the two alliance systems which had been put in place, the generalized war becomes unavoidable: Germany has to declare war to Russia, and in turn France and Britain have to declare war to Germany.
So, to put it short: the Austrian Empire was the main responsible for the constant regional instability, and Russia pulled the trigger that transformed this instability into WWI.
On your aside #2: I disagree that the Versailles treaty (which specified the amount of German reparations) is what led Hitler to power. It's a myth popular among francophobic, but it's just a myth.
Granted, the Versailles treaty is for a large part responsible for the collapse of the German economy and the hyperinflation of the early 20s. But these problems were basically solved in 1923-1924. Hitler came to power ten years later, and would have come to power anyway, with or without a Versailles treaty. Germany had been on an "experimental" mood for 130 years (i.e. since Fichte's speeches on the German nation) on how far it could push the idea of "one people, one nation" (and later "one people, one race, one nation"), and HAD TO, at some point, try an extreme experience.
The French behavior in 1919 is indeed shameful and revenge-inspired; Germany was not the real responsible for WWI; the Austrian empire and Russia were. But the Austrian empire had been destroyed, and the Communist Russia of 1918 was not the Tsarist Russia of 1914; Germany was the only one left, and somebody had to pay... The French behavior in the 30s, after Hitler seized power is also pathetic. Not to mention the absolute incompetence of its military leadership in 1940. But, still, the French cannot be considered responsible for the election of Hitler. The Germans were deeply antisemitic, even more than the rest of Europe (France included), obsessed with their vision of "one nation, one people, one race, one culture" and were doomed to put Hitler's vision in practice one way or another.
Otherwise, I do think that the USSR would have crushed nazi Germany even without the USA. But that's exactly the reason why I'm even more grateful to Americans to have invaded Normandy: at the end of the day, the US did not really save my country from Hitler, but it saved my country from Stalin. Hitler would not have lasted for long anyway, but the USSR did. Had France been part of the Soviet block, its "decline" and sufferings would have been much, much worse than what it endured during WWII.
And they helped out in our revolution, but then they invaded Mexico so they could align with the Southern States in our Civil War. I guess they wanted the Louisiana Purchase back.
Hey Austrailians.....
If you reported your religion as "Jedi" in the last census, you can access this information.
"By clicking on "I have read this important information" below,
if you are a physical person you hereby guarantee that:
1) You are residing in France
2) You are not a US resident nor a "US Person"
3) You are not an Australian nor a Canadian resident "
Well, Yoda said, "We are luminous beings, not this crude matter", so you're in, since you're not really a physical person!
Only residents of France, eh?
Hank Scorpio (getting ready to target the big laser): "By the way, Homer, what's your least favorite country, Italy or France?"
Homer: "France."
Scorpio: "Hah hah. Nobody ever says Italy."
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
From a people that venerate Jerry Lewis...
A Linux IPO.
Be afraid...be very very afraid!!
The latest conflict that can be considered a "civil war" in France would be the religious wars in the late 15th early 16th centuries... No Americans to help the French out then. Or maybe you are refering to uprisings during the 1789 Revolution ? Sorry, no Americans helped out then. Or the 1830 Revolution ? Sorry, it lasted only three days. Or 1848 ? even shorter ? Or was it the war with Prussia in 1870 ? still no US help, sorry.
So if your broker don't have any problem to access to the IPO nobody will forbid you to subscribe.
If your broker don't allow you to access to the IPO you can open an account in a french broker like Startfinance
Of course - it will be probably easyer to buy share after the IPO.
When you look at the balance sheet it looks pretty even to me. I think the Normandy invasion and freeing the whole country should balance one big statue and a century or two of protectionism. They don't call it the longest day for nothing. Especially considering that we could have skipped the entire invasion and just waited until we had enough nukes and B36s to turn Germany into a waste land.
And if that doesn't balance things then trying to help France reclaim its empire in southeast asia certainly does.
So why don't we just call it even and get on with finding new reasons to hate each other? Honestly, I've never understood why we Americans love the British and hate the French it should be the other way around. (See what I said about Americans and rationality.)
StoneWolf
If you have an EU passport, this would be easy to get in on. Hence the English (for all the Brits and Irish) does make sense.
Amusing IPO restrictions about Americans. Do you think it's possibly due to Red Hat's IPO being restricted to US citizens?
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Too bad US citizen don't have first dibs. Get in on it when the gettin is good, and the bail out before it goes down like a bad habit, like Redhat.
Either give it away or get top dollar, but never sell yourself cheap.
You're right there are always negitive aspects to an IPO but the big plus is the sudden rise of capital. The question is what does Mandrake have planned that they suddenly need a huge amount of capital and are will to make sacrifices to get it. Althought it seems like it most companies do not IPO because it sounds like fun.
1) You are residing in France 2) You are not a US resident nor a "US Person" 3) You are not an Australian nor a Canadian resident 4) You are not a Japanese resident, nor a person residing in Japan 5) You commit to not distribute nor make available in any way, any of the information contained in this Web site to all persons living outside of France or to "US Persons" 6) You have never participated in the sale or exchange of Nazi memorabilia on eBay.
'Same speed C but faster'
The line, if you are a physical person you hereby guarantee that:, made me believe that I had to be a big burly man in order to qualify for the exceptions. Since I have never been a really physical person I decided it was ok for me to click the big button.
'Same speed C but faster'
Please read
For legal reasons, the information contained in this site is exclusively aimed at, on the one hand, interested persons residing in France and, on the other hand, at interested non-US, Japanese, Australian and Canadian based institutional investors, nor at any institutional investors head quartered in any of the territories, possessions, protectorates under these countries' jurisdiction. If you do not reside in France, or if you are a "US Person" (as defined under Regulation S of the Securities Act 1933 of the USA, as modified) wherever you reside, you should not access this site's content. This Web site as well as all information contained therein must not be published nor distributed in the United States, Canada, Australia and Japan, nor distributed to any "US Person".
Thank you for your understanding.
Nobox: Only simple products.
... like earning money thanks to programmers who give their code to the public because they believe in that?
... like backstabbing people who just do something for the community?
... like selling something that is supposed to be free?
V
ummm.. well.. say u're european, but live in france ?
and besides, there's an interesting sentence at the end of the disclaimer:
"if you are an institutional investor, you hereby guarantee that you are not US, Japanese, Australian or Canadian based."
so, say u're a german institutional investor, wouldn't u be happy to have the version in english (instead of french only) ?
right ! but's that a global EU problem (what if u're Danish ?): in what languages should u make european-wide documents available ?
for governments, the use is now to have it translated at least in English, French, German, Spanish and Italian, and optionnaly in any other of the 11 languages of the EU... believe me, i've worked on this, and it's a nightmare: translation of legal texts seems to be a complex speciality, and managing all that stuff synchronously is pure hell !
That's probably why Mandrake only put French (they're French after all), and English versions.
" By clicking on "I have read this important information" below, if you are a physical person you hereby guarantee that:
1) You are residing in France
2) You are not a US resident nor a "US Person"
3) You are not an Australian nor a Canadian resident
4) You are not a Japanese resident, nor a person residing in Japan
5) You commit to not distribute nor make available in any way, any of the information contained in this Web site to all persons living outside of France or to "US Persons"
[Big button begging to get pressed]
Am I the only person here who's extremely tempted to press?
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
The US has laws against its citizens participating in foreign IPO's. I would bet that it is illegal for a foreign firm to distribute information about an IPO to citizens of the US. Once it is listed on their exchange it is legal for US citizens to purchase the stock. That is provided that the French don't have any laws prohibiting it.
"If there is nothing you are willing to die for, then you are not really alive." Myself
you mother was a red hat and your father smelled of debian
Ha! After the disaster with the Maginot Line, do you really think I'll use their distribution for my firewall!?
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
Refer to this one posted by me to see the reason for this reply.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ now you know
Do you people not understand fesicious humor?
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~ now you know
Haha, I was way off, thanks :-)
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~ now you know
So I can't buy in on this IPO on the Euro Stock Exchange eh? Well good, I don't have any monopoly money left anyway...
And I fart in your general direction!
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~ now you know
ze mandrake, she esss publeek! wunderfel!
Congrats!
Going public, to be at the mercy of idiot investors... Something's odd here.
Screw 3...
2)They fired all their American staff, a couple months back...
I'm sure there's a connection here, but I'm just too thick to see it.
On the other hand, I had no problem paying for the boxed distro as long as I felt the money was actually going to the programmers and organization supporting them. I had even pondered buying a few shares for the same reason. Now, I'm more ambivalent. I -- get this: -- feel somewhat singled out because of my nationality.
Maybe it's time to move along to Debian after all...
They're IPOing on the Euronext market.
This is not great news.
Although some folks might (and just might) be able to collect on their options, for the rest of us this is bad news.
Why?
1. Loss of control
This business is currently run by a close-knit team. This is sure to change radically when the bottom line becomes short-term profitability, and when the long-term vision is dropped.
2. Technology Dilution
Technology moves quickly. But in order to keep shareholders happy, it will make sense not to compete head-to-head with the bigger guns such as RedHat.
In addition, partnerships will become more important. These days, partnerships are all about leveraging each other's monopolies. This is a naturally closed world.
So this isn't good stuff folks. SUre, it's great fun for the 17 people who'll be able to retire, but it isn't necessarily good for the industry or the users.
.. Question:
If it's for french people only and you have to click through that crap.. Why is it in english?
...given their use of chevron () instead of quotation mark ("), space before a colon (This page is available in :), misuse of comma (July, 19th 2001), and the fact that they probably haven't had a shower in two months.
Does anybody know if their in the black yet? I couldn't find out the sales numbers on the site?