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Red Hat , 3G Lab to Make 'Wireless Linux'
An Anonymous Coward writes: "U.S. software and services company Red Hat and Britain's closely held 3G Lab said on Monday they will develop a 'Linux for the wireless world' as they team up to write an operating system for Web phones." The hypothetical "cell phone running Linux" might not stay hypothetical very long.
So you can play Minesweeper while driving to work.
This could answer your question:
http://sources.redhat.com/ecos/,
http://sources.redhat.com/elix/.
Imagine it? You obviously weren't using word processors back in the eighties, when things were exactly like this. Save varied from things like
+k - g, - transfer - file, and depending on what word processor/text editor you used.
Big thanks to Apple there. It was Apple mandating a common look and feel, and especially common controls on all applications developed for the Macintosh that started the whole standardisation of user interface push.
Even if Macs do suck.
Politas
That'll teach me to preview. Those options were
<Ctrl> + k - g, <esc> - transfer - file, and <F3>
Politas
it is eCos-not linux.
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Why do you call it wireless linux when it's not linux! It's eCos. So misleading. So because it's open source does that mean it's related to linux? Why not call it wireless bsd or some other open source OS. Or why not just call it what it is. Anyway, symbian is the kernel for cellphones and I assume it will be part of PalmOS 5 because of the nokia deal. So that's going to be ubiquitous.
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Nokia alone is going to ship 100 million Java phones by end 2003 - Java midlets enable a lot of interactivity, local data storage, etc, useful for games, portfolio tracking, location-based information (like Vindigo), etc. Midlets are Java programs running on the phone and conforming to Sun's MIDP profile on top of Java 2 Micro Edition.
:)
This means that phone makers need a good platform for Java, and for advanced applications depending on IP, multithreading, multitasking, etc. The API visible to the customer will not be Linux, it will be Java MIDP in most cases (though some may enable a Linux API as well). The benefit of Linux is the same as for any other IP-connected device - open source, Unix compatible, good TCP/IP stack, huge set of developers, active community, etc.
Most phones from 2002 onwards (whether GPRS/3G in Europe and Asia, or CDMA2000 in North America) will have a built-in IP stack and will need to run Java midlets. Hence Linux has a good chance of being the underlying OS, even if it isn't visible to the end user. Much as I like Linux, I don't really want to fire up bash on a tiny screen and type a long command line on the number pad
This is definitely going to be an issue as phones start to support Java apps (midlets) and full IP functionality. The average mobile operator will have to provide firewalling, mobile virus/worm scanning, and so on - most likely in the network so it can be easily updated for new attacks. WAP 1.2 also makes it possible for a WAP script to look up phone numbers, make phone calls, and send SMSs.
Having said that, attacks on the wireless application servers are probably more likely in the short term.
Nobody knows what applications will really take off - personally, I think that a Java-enabled frontend to 'find me an X' type services would be great. This would be location-enabled, so you can say 'where is the nearest pharmacy/chemist?' and it will show you on a map as well as giving directions. It can also direct you to local cinemas, giving reviews of films, and local restaurants, etc. Great if you travel a lot to various different cities. Vindigo have a Palm-based prototype of this that is already quite useful - you have to tell it where you are in the town, but that part will disappear on IP/Java-ena bled phones.
...according to the article, it's going to be running eCos, not Linux. eCos is another one of RH's acquisitions, and the article says that it's open source too. Can anyone comment on developing for eCos?
Remember: it's a "Microsoft virus", not an "email virus",
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
it is not quite full JVM it is the personal java which is java 1.1 / security from 1.2
the reason is they could not do the peers to well
really I dont know why you would want a full JVM or how you would fit it on its all marketing speak
what you want is midlets and such with nice graphics thats all
a full JVM aka jdk1.3 would include SWING wich is huge and I dont see that going on a phone with limited memory !
regards
john jones
ok most phones run VX works from Wind (wrs)
that ericsson + MOT + Nokia + panasonic all own Symbian and ericsson. are shipping phones built on symbian it will take a bit of a blunder on symbians part
BUT
the way Symbian has to do a custom GUI for each for factor i.e. recode all UE code + libs then recode apps mean that they are not starting that far behind although they have quartz + Peal + crystal, the point is that they have to do a GUI well symbian have done this for a while and have a good lib
IF and ONLY if they present a good GUI which can integrate JAVA well then they may well be onto a winner
the whole platform is changeing and now people are looking for a good solution where JAVA and native programing with JAVA looks good and is CHEAP
good luck to them
regards
john jones
p.s. please DONT use microgui or X but use a vector based solution with Fast Java (-;
But if we're just talking about the kernel, then the answer is pretty simple -- because it's already done, stable, configurable and Free. They don't have to reinvent all the core OS stuff, they can just use the Linux kernel, which has already been adapted to run in low disk/ram/etc. environments that aren't that different from phones.
Once you're using Linux, then you can get benefits of advances in the voice shell or other stuff like that (which other people are working on for its own sake). And since it's Free, they can make whatever changes they want to add the features they need or make the adaptations that are good for phones.
--Esme
Actually, it's "WHY are you busting me - go after the fscking script kiddiez that rooted my phone and turned the blasted Barney ring (I love you, you love me..)on full at full volume!"
Soko
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
As many people have already pointed out, it's not running Linux but Cynus' eCos. The Register has a good article about it, and speculates on how it will compete against other products already in the marketplace (e.g. Symbian).
john
http://www.redhat.com/embedded/technologies/ecos/
-- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20010730/tc/red_ha t_3g_lab_design_wireless_os_1.html
It no longer suggests that this will be "Wireless Linux" and now calls it just "Wireless OS"
-- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
The rich interaction problem isn't that hard. All I want is a 10" 800X600 display that can run for 18 hours on one battery and fit in my front pants pocket. If they can also put a full size keyboard and mouse in the same pocket, I would be willing to pay 6 or 7 more dollars.
The Samsung 3500 in my pocket has all the features I need. 1) Clear phone calls 2) Good address book 3) Integrated vibrating ringer. That's it.
-B
End of the month. Gotta make that mortgage/Porsche payment before the repo man comes along (Yeah, I bet I could get modded +1 funny if I included a link to the /. article about the modern day repo guy, but I'm just too damned lazy)
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Don't sue me for not knowing the name of the male host
;-)
Ok, now be honest, how many people thought that was a typo...?
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Aaron Sherman (ajs@ajs.com)
Linux is an ideal solution for embedded OSes, since you can 'flatten' it yourself (ie, not wait for M$ or who ever to scale the product down depending on your needs).
And, you know it scales up to full featured PCs, so in the next few years, as phone displays and bandwidth grows, your OS grows with it, until you no longer have a phone with an OS but rather a PC with the size and functionality of a phone.
"Old man yells at systemd"
eCOS, which Red Hat also licenses and sells, has a slightly more developer-friendly license, but the full implications of the license are difficult to determine because it is so verbose and its requirements are very complex.
The best licensing -- the type that will let embedded developers rest easy at night without fear of lawsuits or unexpected repercussions -- is the simplest: a truly free license such as the Apache or MIT X license. A truly free license does not place any constraints on how you may use the code; the only constraints are on what you can do to the originator (e.g. you cannot sue him or her for bugs). Wasabi Systems (http://www.wasabisystems.com) adapts NetBSD, which uses a simple, truly free license, for embedded systems. FreeBSD and OpenBSD are also easily embeddable. These are the operating systems of choice for embedded work; they're high quality code and the license will not come back to bite you. Ever.
--Brett Glass
Because there's a stock trading window. If they don't sell now, they can't sell for quite a while.
IANAL, so I don't know the specifics on why.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
TimepassTown is still down, but thanx to the wireless box, the radio is still alive....
I swear, officer, I'm not drunk! I was just trying to recompile the kernel on my cell phone!
--SC
You read fiction? I write it! Lemme know what you th
I think this is interesting.
I've just returned from a trip to Europe, and I've gotten a chance to play with some of the phones there (not all, but most of the models available). And I've also used plenty of phones in Canada. And I must say one thing: the phones in Europe are so confuzing, it's unbelievable! The worse in my opinion are the Alcatels, which not only are different in setup, buttons and menus from any other manufacturer, but also among themselves. I got one to use for free (I only paid for the card and calls) there from a friend, and it took me about a week to figure out everything the damn thing could do! It was so counter-intuitive, it was unbelievable! (For those who have one, can anyone explain why is it that the smily button will exit any menu, cancel any action or abort anything, while the "NO" button won't do a thing?!?!?)
And belive me, I'm definitely not a techology impaired guy, alfter all, I'm a CS major and I've been using computers and electronic gadgets for about half of my life. The phones I did like were the Nokias (which are the same on both sides of the pond), Ericssons and Samsungs (I own a Samsung in Canada).
The point I'm trying to make, having each phone use the same OS (or 2 or 3 but not many more) is a good thing. Be they as customizable as they might be, it would still maintain a certain level of compatibility between models from the same company and from different companies. I could pick up a phone from one manufacturer and not waste an entire day trying to figure out how to send an SMS or an email. I mean those things should be useable without reading the manual which I didn't have.
Believe me, I'm all for variety, but not when it comes to something as basic as a menu or the buttons on a phone. Imagine is MS Word's menu would be 100% different from KOffice, which in turn would be 100% different from WordPerfect and so on? If the "Save" option would be under "File" in one app, but under "Edit" in another one and under "Help" in another one.
In conclusion, I'm all for RH's initiative in the mobile market.
Finally, I don't have to deal with wires attached to my kernel.
One question, though: will the new "wireless linux" be radio controlled or infrared?
Some terms are just retarded.
The article mention the benefits of using OSS for the makers of the cell phone. Each company will be able to "tweak" the kernal to their needs without having to: cunsult software makers(faster turn around), pay for tweak(cheaper), pay liscensing(cheaper). that means cheaper phones for the consumers.
since Red Hat is in on it, then Linux is the natural choice.
the Linux kernel has been ported to many small devices, this should be no different. What I like best about this is having a base OS(whether or not they use Linux)that is open.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
On the other hand... consider how much other people like the people who yell at their cell phones. Then try to guess how much they'll love the idea of people having discussion with similar devices. Oh boy.
--
I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
Whether OS should be visible to end user is completely different issue of course. Usually user doesn't (and needn't) care about which OS is in there, Symbian, QNX, Linux or some home-grown mini-OS (like the ones Nokia and Ericsson used to have). But OS is there; it makes no sense to write all the h/w management stuff from scratch for each new device.
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I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
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I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
Ah, those lil bastards! Wonder where I could order more of them? :-)
(yes, you got me, my native language has no articles... tricky bastards I'll tell you!)
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I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
So you mean it is almost as reliable as my Nextel i1000 plus . . . . . ?
-1, Stupid
I'm sure you were half kidding, but you're about a year too late. We've only seen the beginning of virus (virii?) now that everything is going to be interconnected in some way.
there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots
As someone steeped in the embedded memory market, I know that memory sizes like 2MB tend to be considered big and expensive to place into the single chip that would be needed to cram into the phone. Wafer errors are much more common with larger memories, so more chips are discarded, raising the price. This is why WinCE (gobs of mem) prices tend to be prohibitively expensive and Palms (relatively smaller gobs) are much more affordable (not counting inventory dumps).
The last Linux kernel I built was about 800k with k6 support, video, networking, SCSI disk and tape, IDE storage, serial, parallel port (should have left it out), floppy, iso9660 and ext2fs filesystems. I'm betting there's enough cruft in there to bring that down to about 200k of kernel, leaving plenty of space for mini-programs that at 100k would be large and for memory structures such as buffers, a large address book, and a pseudo-filesystem. What is the smallest that kernel has been whittled down to in other applications, such as the Agenda? Now, how small could Xfree get?
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
imagine the internet ... but wireless.
each machine in the system can act as a node, passing on info for others in a way that's secure for the sender and intended recipient. this'll only work well if there are many in the area with this technology. imagine being in an area that's not directly servised by a cellular service provider, but getting through because there are a string of users in the area who'll pass on the signal to a service provider. this will help lead to such a situation.
A few months ago, I slapped a "Powered by Red Hat" sticker on the outside of my silver Motorola Timeport cell phone. Everywhere I go, it seems, someone asks me about my LinuxPhone(tm). Sadly, I have to reply that "No, it's not really powered by RedHat, but maybe someday!"
It's ok, though. I figure if I'd put a "Windows 98 Ready" sticker on it, I'd have to endure people laughing and pointing at me as I walk through airports... Moreso than usual, that is.
"Because I love Pat Benatar." -- Britney Spears, when asked why she covered Joan Jett's "I Love Rock 'n' Roll"
The hypothetical "cell phone running Linux" might not stay hypothetical very long.
No, but the "Linux spreads a virus" will become true as soon as soon as the companies admit that cell phones cause brain cancer.
It's a conpiracy, I tell ya!
If it's supposed to be so successful, then why are all the company insiders selling the stock like there is no tommorrow?
It has been asked before, but it begs asking again. Why would such a thing be even desirable ? If anyone is really trying to suggest Linux is a half-way suitable OS for a cell phone, they have to be crazy or a zealot or both. Come on guys, the right tools for the right jobs, not the same tool everywhere at any cost.
Or, more precisely, if Linux makes it onto a cell-phone it may well prove to be cancer-causing. Guess the guys at MS will be rubbing their hands in glee at the press-hay they could make on this one. You see, Win CE wouldn't stay up long enough to irradiate your brain cells enough to cause mutations.
So much for Bluetooth, eh?
It shoudl be interesting to see what RedHat brings to the table for EMbedded Linux.
Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
Sorry this VBS-Telefonica worm is not a GSM virus. It is a standard computer virus with a twist: it uses Internet-SMS gateways to spam random GSM users. It can't spread from phone to phone and it can't harm the phone.
Phone-based viruses are a possibility. Just use a Java-enabled and you will be (almost) safe.
Nobox: Only simple products.
Uhh, didn't know about that.
I think they'll have to put A LOT of money into their routers to deal with upcoming spam...
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and when you'll yell "shut up" through the line if somebody pisses you off, your mobile will do a shutdown -h now and they can yell at your mailbox
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I wonder how long it's going to take before the first GSM-Worm spreads over the world. When software gets smart, *some* ppl will try to exploit it ;)
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So what actually will that software be like? I mean... storing numbers, storing call lists etc., maybe GPRS-Access and a mail client is all I need at the time.
/. on my 20x4 char digit.. ;)
So d'you think they'll gonna put a neat P4 in it? Will you be able to run processes (like GSM-flooding etc.)?
But as long as I'll be able to read through
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Red Hat has recently turned its first profit, which came a year earlier then anticipated. Now we see Red Hat striking deals with other major companies in an attempt to expand itself beyond the server/desktop market. Red Hat has really become a serious company with long term potential, and is the force that is pushing open source into wider acceptance in more markets. Perhaps Mandrake will be doing something similar in 5 years now that they are an IPO.
Open source cell phones sounds like a really good idea. There has got to be a hundred different manufactures of cell phones, and a hundred more people who sell cell phone. Each seller can customize his or her OS without having to beg someone else to do it. The distributors of cell phones will have power to customize their "client." Consumers will have power to insert a different distribution (perhaps) then the one they were given. Linux seems like an ideal OS choice for cell phone makers.
Hats off to Red Hat! I hope they are successful with this project and get open source widely accepted by a wider range of companies.
Lawrence Lessig is my personal hero.
I'm sorry, but we must see a dozen of these a month. It's a wonderful testament to the versatility of linux, but don't some of you wish that instead of wasting time on fringe projects that probably never go anywhere these resources could be better spent funding mainstream kernel development and/or the FSF?
But then any platform can crash. I saw my old Erricson A1018s crash on me a couple of times when sending a text message!!
But if any company was dumb enough to release something that was as unstable as the average Windows PC they would be committing ritual suicide. I dont think any of the mobile phone manufacturers are really *that* thick...
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Win98: eye fatigue and nausea during install program.
Itellimouse: blindness by nifty looking red-led
1st generation force feedback joysticks: Impact injury(wrist)
Win2000 install:Depression
click..click..click..:Impact injury(index finger)
slamming skull into moniter everytime you relize you just bought crappy overpriced software from a monopoly:Impact Injury(head)
"Get them before they get....
Maybe this will increase RedHat's profit, which was/in rather of a slump, increasing jobs to the Research Triangle Park area (where RedHat is based) in NC.
but, Linus didn't have a PDA/web tablet/cell phone to develop for, so how could you say that it was developed only for desktops?
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
I know her name. She is more than cute, she is nearly smokin'. Anyway, I was talking about the male host. I have no clue what his name is.
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If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
There are three listings for the word host. The term in use was the 3rd one. Hostess is also listed in the dictionary elsewhere.
host(3) n [ME hoste, host, quest, fr. OF, fr. L hospit-, hospes, fr. hostis] (13c) 1 a: ONE that recieves or entertains quests socially, commercially or officially.
The rest of the meanings are irrelevant to this. While it is common to use Hostess to denote a female host it is also fine to use the word host interchangably while adding male or female before it. Hostess, on the other hand only refers to a female that entertains socially, commercially or officially.
My use of the word was correct and far from improper. Thank you for noticing my use of the inexplicably complex English language.
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
Don't sue me for not knowing the name of the male host. Anyway, he was showing off one of those new style mobiles phones and mentioned that they have a reset button akin to what desktop PCs have on them. While he was demonstrating the mobile phone it did indeed lock-up on him.
He brushed it off, saying that the technology is still rather new and that is obviously had some way to go. Personally, I would expect that from an Alpha or Beta product. The phone he was showing was a production model.
Why is everyone okay with production systems and equipment that crash and fail when it comes to information technology? BTW, I believe the phone was running WinCE.
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If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
As I see it, a Linux'ish OSS OS(!) on a cell phone would be a godsend - for us geeks. Just imagine: You think that the menu system on your Ericsson R520m sucks; you re-write it. You don't use bluetooth | IR | voice command; you re-compile with those features disabled. Your kernel only supports WAP 1.2.1; you add the 1.3 features. Really cool stuff, like I said - for us geeks.
/. readers are gonna think this is the best thing since Kernel 2.4.6, but face it - we are a minority. A very proud and savvy minority, but nevertheless a minority. The average user will not care at all.
But I'd have a hard time imagining Joe 6-pack seeing any advantages with this. He is happy with his WinXP activation scheme, and has no idea whether his cell phone uses CDMA, natural gas or an antenna. Nor does he care - as long as he can call home from the supermarket, the underlying technology isn't important to him at all.
So the bottom line is: a lot of
...where the hardware is more or less directly tied to the service provider.
... what's the name of the third one ... oh yes, Siemens, is not going to appear overnight. But don't confuse service providers and manufacturers, 'cause that's so TDMA.
Just a little comment here... If you open up your North American eyes and look beyond the pond, you'll see a world where the hardware is not directly tied to a service provider. It's called the Wonderful World of GSM, where the same phone works more or less everywhere (with the obvious exception of NA unless your phone can do 1900 MHz).
Granted, the hardware is still directly tied to the manufacturer (surprise?!), so the universal OSS cell phone OS that runs on both Nokias, Ericssons and
How will this work with current technology? The idea of open source software doesn't seem to mean much in the arena of cell phones where the hardware is more or less directly tied to the service provider. OSS is awesome, but what is the benefit to consumers unless they can load their own software into their cellphone. It will be interesting to see where companies go with this, because it seems to me business models would have to change. At any rate, I'm glad that OSS is trying to get a foothold in this market early.
It seems that you answered your own question: MicroSoft's fine family of stable, reliable products. M$ has lowered the bar so low that it seems that most users will accept a fairly large amount of trouble from their software.
By the way, the female host would be known as a 'hostess'. This eliminates the need for the male/female denotation.
slashdot: A failed experiment.
... voice recognition and voice emulation software so it can listen and talk to you, the UI will still suck (it will probably still suck even if you do have the forementioned technologies). The UI is going to look like a cell phone UI. Who cares what the underlying substrate is! Sheesh, some people have little to do with their time if they get excited over something like this...
That is all.
I wonder if I could play XTux on my Nokia...