Netscape 6.1

max2010 writes: "Netscape Browser Version 6.1 is released. Give it a try, grab the 25MByte junk of code for MAC, Unix and Windows at ftp.netscape.com." MSNBC has a brief story about the release.

Comments

Re:Why?

[DrXym]

The advantages are these:

• Greater quality control. The commercial version is beat on a lot more than any Mozilla milestone meaning it should be more robust.
• Some limited support. Netscape will more than likely release another minor update in a few months to catch any top crashers. It will also release updates for any security issues that arise. With Mozilla you must apply a patch or wait for the next milestone.
• Instant messenger.. Netscape has AIM built in. Clever people may even figure out how to remove the advert from the bottom by editting the chrome.
• Spell checker.. Moz doesn't have one of these due to the fact that the dictionary is licenced.
• Bundled crap/goodies.. The installer can download and install RealPlayer, Shockwave, Net2Phone, WinAmp and some other stuff if you let it.
• Netscape branding and version. Believe it or not but some people trust something more when its called 6.1 than 0.9.3.
• Netscape Netcentre integration. Register when you open a new profile and the instance messenger, side panels and home page are all customised to your taste.

Obviously some people may not be perceive some of these things as advantages, but that is why Mozilla exists. You're free to choose either. Mozilla is free of the commercialism and out on the cutting edge but you will experience more crashes as a result of that.

notoriously buggy?

[byoung]

No "editorial bias" here:

AOL Time Warner released the first final upgrade to its notoriously buggy Netscape 6 browser, promising a smoother and faster ride for Netscape loyalists.

netscape loyalists?

Are they trying to position Netscape users as a bunch of militia members or something? Wait'll we see Rosie attacking Tom Sellick saying we have no right to keep using Netscape.

Beautiful example of objective reporting there.

Re:notoriously buggy?

[benedict]

MSNBC didn't write the article, they got it from syndication.

I have detected no editorial bias towards Microsoft at MSNBC, and I think I'd notice, since I'm quite biased *against* Microsoft.

Re:notoriously buggy?

[Gleef]

The Dev asks:

Um, what exactly don't you like about Netscape 4.x (now 4.78)? It's stable (as least on windows and FreeBSD), fast and a nice integrated mail client (sucky for newsgroups though).

(Note: I am not an IE fan, in fact I use Mozilla as my main browser; also note: most of my Netscape 4.x experience is with the Linux version, your mileage may vary).

Here's a quick, of the top of my head, list of some things I don't like about Netscape 4.x
* Pathetically non-standard CSS implementation
* Annoyingly quirky DOM implementation
* Crashes more than Mozilla 0.9.2 and above (at least for me)
* Mail client can't handle multiple accounts
* Does not properly handle being executed more than once at a time
* Pointless HTML editor that just takes up space
* Awkward rendering; particularly bad handling of fonts and text placement
* Badly chosen or missing keyboard shortcuts
* Occasionally corrupts downloaded binaries

Yes, some of these gripes also carry over to Mozilla (eg integrated HTML editor), but it's already pretty much surpassed 4.x in features (it's missing a few, but has many that 4.x couldn't even think about), and blown way past it in standards compliance and ease to develop for.

IE 5.x is (mostly) more standards compliant than Netscape 4.x, but at the expense of security (on windows) or performance (on unix). It is also, in my experience, far less stable than Netscape 4.x.

I'm looking forward to the day when I can focus my website development on looking good on IE 5.0+, Netscape 6.1+ (6.0 is best forgotten) and Mozilla 1.0+, and dump support for both Netscape and IE's obnoxious 4.x browsers.

Netscape 6.1 = (Mozilla 0.9.3 + branding)

[BroadbandBradley]

Branding = AOL/Netscape inspired bookmarks and messenger.
add the AOL messenger in the sidebar, and a dictionary.
oh, and don't forget the product registration and mynetscape account setup. You can bypass the registration, but the myNetscape portal is a nice addition to the browser if only to backup bookmarks and adress book.

Please cite authorship correctly

[Jeremy Erwin]

This is not a MSNBC story. It's a CNET authored story-- the original of which is here. It is inaccurate and short sighted to continue to give credit to a Microsoft owned network, but even more so in this particular case, where a conflict of interest might reasonably be suspected.

great features, too late

[fetta]

If Microsoft had ever released IE for Linux, this would be even more of a dead issue.

A valuable lesson here - it doesn't matter how good the technology is if you take too long to produce it and don't market it well. (of course, that same principle could be applied to almost any product.)

Re:Paul Festa -- not MSNBC

[DrXym]

Paul Festa has to be one of the most misinformed, biased reporters I have ever read.

I've seen numerous pieces he's written about Mozilla or Netscape where the facts have been grossly distorted and crucial details have been omitted or the wrong emphasis has been place. And all of this with large amounts of negative spin and sometimes even going as far as to accuse AOL of some major conspiracy or other.

Personally I think he's been slighted by Netscape in the dim and distant past and now he has an axe to grind. Certainly it's not about browsers because I get the distinct impression he would print the same mulch even if Mozilla was by far and away the better browser.

Re:sweet god in heaven

[sharkey]

25 megs? What the hell did they put in it? Why can't they just release the damn browser by itself?

8.2 MBs of browser, 6.8 MBs of Java and 10 MBs of a video clip of Steve Case jumping around like a monkey, screaming, "WOO! HOO! WAA! HAA! Look at me, I'm Steve Ballmer! HEE HEE!"

Re:No it's not...

[visualight]

Step one - clear your cache
Step two - load up the biggest waste of bandwidth page you can find in IE. Make a mental note of the time it took to load the page.
Step three - repeat with Mozilla.

Even with my cable modem there's a marked difference. When I load /.'s front page IE takes about two seconds to get from the top banner ad to the bottom of the page. With Mozilla I can't time it. The whole page just pops up.

And besides, I think Mozilla looks real cool with the Aqua theme I downloaded. Only problem I have is that it freezes when I try to download 78,000 headers from alt.binaries.images.

Brilliant lead writing...

[wrinkledshirt]

AOL Time Warner released the first final upgrade...

If it's the first one, doesn't that preclude the possibility of it being the final one?

I'm so confused.

MSNBC headline is biased/inaccurate

[John Harrison]

AOL releases new Netscape beta
Final upgrade to buggy version 6

The release isn't a beta. The article itself mentions that the beta came out in June. Strange that MSNBC would miss a tiny detail like that. :)

Re:Misc Icons

[nomadic]

I've been using Opera for the past few days, and it seems pretty good. More stable than either IE or NS on W98, and it seems to support just about everything I've run into.

Freudian slip?

[sheetsda]

25MByte junk of code

Doesn't he mean "chunk" of code? Little Freudian slip there? :)

Re:Freudian slip?

[BZ]

Actually, 6.1 is based on 0.9.2. After some stabilization and major crash fixes, of course. :)

Re:sweet god in heaven

[Tumbleweed]

25 Megs _is_ rather amazing, especially considering the Mozilla release it's based on (v0.9.2) is only 8.32Meg in size (for the Windows version).

Weird.

I'll be sticking with Mozilla v0.9.3 for now, thanks, though I _do_ wish they'd speed up the bookmarks manager by at _least_ an order of magnitude (at _least_!). Definite bookmark weirdness in v0.9.3 for me (on Windows).

Paul Festa -- not MSNBC

[tswinzig]

No "editorial bias" here

Note that the article was written by Paul Festa of CNET News.com. As soon as I read that article yesterday on CNET (about the upcoming release, with the same wording), I sent him a letter and CC'd Jai Singh (Editor-in-Chief) about it.

Paul Festa has been, throughout the browser wars, firmly on the side of Microsoft. At least, that's the opinion you tend to get after reading his articles.

He also has no memory of history. Here is an excerpt from my letter to him:

Paul writes, "Whether Netscape 6.1 can rally the Netscape faithful remains to be seen. While Netscape 6 encountered first delays and then scathing reviews, Microsoft assembled an overwhelming lead in the browser market."

You know Paul, that sounds strangely familiar. Those that forget history are "doomed" to repeat it. To add a little integrity to your article, you might also point out that the same was true in reverse when Microsoft started out with MSIE: Their first versions received scathing reviews (was usually LAUGHED at), while Netscape
assembled an overwhelming lead in the browser market.

Let CNET know you don't like his biased reporting by emailing their editors.

And just so you don't think I'm some crazy, "Netscape loyalist," I actually use MSIE throughout the day and like it.

Why people use Netscape instead of IE or Mozilla

[Guppy06]

First off, let me just say that while "Netscape loyalists" may not be all that much of a misnomer, "computer geeks" aren't the only bunch of people still using Netscape. A big group of people who still use it are those who aren't all that computer literate and wish to continue using Netscape because it's what they started with and what they know. The same reasons why my mother still uses Eudora Lite (or whatever they're calling themselves now) since WFW 3.11 instead of Outlook Express. There are also a lot of corporations that use this kind of mentality when deciding on software. "Netscape still works for us, why bother changing software?"

As for the "Why Netscape instead of Mozilla?" group, there are advantages to using a mildly invasive, "shrink-wrapped" piece of software. The fact that it's official Netscape means that customers have a single and (usually) definative source of help and information in the form of Netscape themselves. While Mozilla has Bugzilla and on-line forums, that's not all that appealing to those who view themselves more as "casual computer users" than "participants in the community." And again, this is something the corporate types prefer.

So before you jump down Netscape's throat for releasing this, remember that not everybody is a Free software junkie. Personally, I wish they released this update sooner, and I think it will be interesting to see how Mozilla vs. Netscape works out. This could be the definative closed-source vs. open-source competition, with about as even a playing field between the two as you're going to get.

No it isn't

[Chuck Chunder]

Netscape 6.1 = (Mozilla 0.9.2 + further tweaking + branding)
Netscape 6.1 comes from the Mozilla 0.9.2 branch, not the 0.9.3 branch.

AOL/Netscape had to release v6.1

[abischof]

In a way, AOL/Netscape had to release v6.1 Right Now (TM), since IE 6 is going to be released next Wednesday This isn't to say that I don't like Netscape, though -- I download the Mozilla daily builds every day..

Re:How much deeper does this hole get?

[TheFrood]

The more Netscape keeps releasing beta code, the more users it's alienating. I know it's tough not having the latest and greatest 5.x (err 6.x) browser to market, but come on. By the time we get to 6.2 (i.e. Mozilla 1.0 stable), there will be five Netscape users left.

Basing 6.0 on Mozilla 0.6 (or whatever it was) was an incredibly stupid idea. But building 6.1 now off the Moz-0.9.2 source is the right thing to do. First, because Moz-0.9.2 is actually very stable -- the Mozilla folks are setting very high standards for Moz-1.0, and Moz-0.9.2 is already better then Netscape 4.x. Second, and more importantly, releasing 6.1 now gets 6.0 off the market and out of sight as soon as possible.

Even if 6.1 isn't a perfect browser yet, it at least gets rid of the abomination that is 6.0.

TheFrood

New Theme!

[TheFrood]

Netscape has released a new Toy Factory theme for Netscape 6.1. Big bright buttons!

TheFrood

Re:Why?

[shepd]

>Someone will have to source a decent GPL spellchecker library or write one and a dictionary before Mozilla will have anything similar.

This was done before Linux even existed (I believe I read about ispell in a book that was printed before the Linux "revolution").

Newer stuff like aspell and pspell would be well suited to Mozilla. It should be in there, and I'd help do it, but my skillset is currently limited to simple TurboC, Assembly, Turing, and Visual Basic (and another language I won't speak of). :-/

Re:Why?

[DennyK]

1) Mozilla's user agent string is easily changed in user.js:

user_pref("general.useragent.override","(insert user agent string here...)");

2) I have never had any problems with the plugins I use. If a plugin doesn't "recognize" Moz, keep an install of Netscape 4 around and copy the plugin files from Communicator/Program/plugins to Mozilla's plugin directory. Works like a charm for QuickTime at least, and I haven't found any other plugins I have a use for yet... ;)

DennyK

I thought they said they were done with browsers?

[Mustang Matt]

Didn't they have a press release about two months ago that said they weren't going to release any more browsers?

Web developers rejoiced across the world on that day.

Netscape 6.1, a few thoughts

[shaji]

I just have a few comments regarding netscape 6.1/mozilla.

Standard compliance : Netscape is the most standard complaint browser out there, even the internet explorer 6.0 beta fails to render pages correcly. For example just go to W3 CSS page and compare the pages rendered my mozilla/ns and ie. Note the position of the toolbar as you scroll down the page in both browsers. Also you can choose alternate stylesheets on that site using View->Use Stylesheet

Speed : Performance is comparable to that of IE now.. If you want faster than IE browsers use Galeon or skipstone which are based on mozilla

UI issues : Unfortunately mozilla/ns does not support some features which used to work in NS4.x. Dynamic Font issues bugs 52746 Ugly list items ON LINUX 91816