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X-server for PS2
PineGreen writes: "Alllinuxdevices.com has a story
today about Metrolink porting their Micro-X server to Playstation2. Sony still refuses to sell their Linux kit outside Japan, and the Blockman Trading version works on PSOne only. Now, when will I have an excuse to buy a PS2?"
Of course, having an X server for PS/2 is nice, but it's not exactly crucial. Price is also an issue, so I hope that the XF86 team would produce something free if the need arises.
One thing that people seldom realise is that there are numerous ways to use even the oddest devices. But considering the PS/2, an elaborate GUI (that could result from putting a desktop environment on top of X) will not be so useful because of the TV display issues.
Naturally, this could change by the time when HDTV comes, but then from the other point of view, we shall have had a PS/3 by that time.
I've been reading about the PS2 Linux on some Japanese sites and find the whole thing leaving a bad taste in my mouth. This version on Linux is not free (as in freedom) as you think. 1) First and foremost you have to sign a Non-Discosure agreement when you purchase the system. Because the PS2 is a closed system, Sony will like to keep it that way. 2) You have no access to the CD/DVD-ROM, firmware drivers, or bootsystem. Making a stand-alone app is impossable. 3) Anything that uses sound/graphics/BIOS routines but be done through a closed source staticly-linked lib. It is illigal to redistibute this. 4) The system requres a boot CD-ROM which you also cannot redistibute. 5) The video out reqires a moniter that can use video sync pulses only from the green channel. The PS2 does not use a normal RGB out as it will cause the DVD Macrovision not to work. 6) Odds are Sony will not release this in America beacuse America is too friendly to hackers that like to reverse-engineer things. (Sony v. Bleem & Sony v. Connectix)
Hi Daryll,
Could you give more details about the Linux with PS2? impression, speed, stability, apps etc please?
Thanks
Hetz (Heunique)
The main difference between the Jap version is that everything is in Japanese. The other big thing is that some Jap versions come with a Type III PCMCIA slot, which Sony had scrapped in favor of some proprietary interface long before the PS2 began selling in the US.
There is a Linux Based PDA.
It's called Agenda
Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
You have to buy the PS2 devel kit (only if you are in .jp) - $250
You have to buy this X server which you know isn't going to come cheap. - $$$
Now, explain to me how the PS2 (which is already a computer that carries a decent price) would be a viable platform for home Internet/set-top box technology..
I still feel that a computer w/a small size and Linux/Windows would still be less money than a PS2+goodies.
The PS2 has a 256-bit pipeline, a specialized graphics CPU, and basically enough bandwidth to make your PC look like a gameboy. You could "cobble together" one of these as a Linux workstation for $500 ($300 PS2, $200 linux kit, including hdd, eth, Linux, X, GL and everything you need to program it, including the bare specialized hardware... and that's before any rumored price drop). The system would rival a SGI workstation for realtime graphics processing power. For $500. (Of course, you need to throw in some software, but you need to do that with the SGI's, too.) You could barely buy a GeForce3 for that. The PC solution would cost at least a grand, and wouldn't be nearly as powerful.
Sony is already making high end boxes using 8x of the CPUs in a PS2. Licensing the CPU technology. Just think of the PS2 + Linux as the "low end" graphics workstation, perfect for hobbiests, small businesses, etc.
It's not a toy by any means. Just because they market it to play games, doesn't mean there's not some serious technology in this box.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
Have you played NBA Street? :)
Q: Now, when will I have an excuse to buy a PS2?"
When Metal Gear Solid 2 comes out! everyone knows that.
BOSTON SUCKS!
Consoles are very standardised. This means you slap in a CD and *it just works*. They all behave the same too, no performance surprises. Now imagine a postscript RIP and print server that *just works* with cheap USB printers. Imagine a fileserver that *just works*, doing RAID on firewire disks. imagine all these one-function CDs that can be made !
The Linux PS2 is not a great computer, but you can be sure you will have *zilch* install problems. I took 3 days of typing strange hex numbers to install my latest server with redhat (ultra 66 problems). And another 2 hours to get X up. I would gladly hav bought a PS2 in it place, just for the time savings.
This is not a signature.
Not everything has to `make sense`.
Sometimes it`s just out of fun.
Another thing on my wish-list is a Linux based PDA.
__________________________________
Free your mind - Flush your toilet
main(O){10<putchar(4^--O?77-(15&5128 >>4*O):10)&&main(2+O);}
yeah, I've done m68k, PPC, x86 (and er... 6502) asm coding, and with x86 you spend a fair amount of time wasting instructions fighting with register starving and stack operations.
People who learn x86 asm first do this automatically and think it's normal. Then there's a cognitive dissonance effect whereby they have spent so much time learning the messy intricacies of the x86 architecture, that when someone disses it, to agree with them that it sucks would be to devalue the investment of time and effort they spent learning it, so they defend it in spite of the evidence. A similar effect happens with most things people take time+effort to learn. The trick is to be aware of it and catch yourself at it.
Programming the m68k and PPC in macro assembler is reasonably painless and not that hard.
Programming the x86 is a bit of a pain in the arse compared to them, and feels much more like 6502 programming....
All in all, the x86 is pretty much the suckiest mainstream architecture still around today. It's funny, that - both the most common CPU (x86) and Operating system ( windos ) suck. My theory is that this is because most people are stupid.
Choice of masters is not freedom.
It has top secret military uses. . . Saddham would love it!
If you want to tinker with Linux on a game set-top box, get a Dreamcast. Althought the PS2 is a cool thing, use it for games. That's what it's made for. --Ted
I'm curious.. maybe I missed it someplace, but why are they refusing to sell the linux kit outside of japan? Is there some sort of thing in it that makes it so that its not distributable or something?
I'd buy one for GT3 and ZOE, but that's me.
All right...
Why on earth would anyone buy a PS2, plus the Linux kit? You can cobble together a PC out of used parts that will perform at LEAST as well as the PS2 linux box for a lot less. And if you arent already technically proficient with PC hardware, building a machine will help you learn those skills rather than just plugging together the PS2 black boxes.
Just because something can be doen, doesn't mean that it makes sense to do it.
Or is this one of the He who has the most toys wins' sort of things? Sometimes it makes me want to cry...
I'd install a PSX emulator on it so I could play the games that the PS2's built-in emulator has problems with (like, say, Final Fantasy Anthology).
seconded.
-- Another senseless waste of fine bytes.
make sense does not exist. All I know is make install, make clean, make bzImage, make dep, make zImage, and make menuconfig.
--
Error 500: Internal sig error
Metrolink is selling their Micro-X product. That's based on XFree 4.0 and runs in a much smaller footprint. You don't need it, but with the memory limits of the PS2 it's not a bad idea.
I've got a Japanese PS2 running Linux, so if people have questions, maybe I should do a more complete piece on Slashdot. I did a presentation for my local users group not long ago that could be adapted.
ps: If the answer involves a part of the Sony distro that is closed, please tell me to shut up.(don't forget reverse engineering!)
BOSTON SUCKS!
So if you want to see Linux on PS2 outside Japan, do your share and register here for European version or here for American version. And remember, this is only to see if there's interest, so the registrations don't commit either side to anything.