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Loki Speaks up on Chapter 11
The following is an email sent by Scott Draeker of Loki
Dear Friend of Loki:
As you may know, on August 3, 2001, Loki filed a Chapter 11 reorganization. As our valued customer, we wanted to let you know why we have elected to reorganize and how, if at all, it will impact our ongoing business.
Under US law there are two kinds of bankruptcy:
- Chapter 7 is a liquidation. We have not filed a Chapter 7 and have no intention of doing so.
- Chapter 11 is a reorganization. This will allow us to deal with our creditors fairly and equitably and at the same time continue to operate the company. We are still shipping products and porting new games and expect to be doing so for a long, long time.
Most of the debts we are restructuring through the Chapter 11 are well over a year old. They represent mistakes made by a young company. We've learned from our mistakes and become cash positive. Going forward we have every confidence that Loki will continue to be successful and grow.
We cannot say for certain how long Loki will remain in Chapter 11. It depends on many factors. However we do intend to bring the process to a conclusion as quickly as possible. Once our plan of reorganization is accepted by the court, our creditors will receive an agreed upon settlement and all other prepetition obligations will be fully and finally discharged.
During and after the reorganization your orders will continue to be honored. We will continue to provide end user support, bug fixes and new products. Negotiations are in progress to guarantee Loki a steady stream of additional AAA games to bring to Linux.
Most importantly, we'd like to thank each of you for your support over the years. Without our customers, we are nothing. The outpouring of support we have received in the last few days has been overwhelming, and we will continue to do everything we can to merit that support.
Kind regards,
Scott Draeker
President, Loki Software
Neverwinter Nights is supposed to be released for Windows, Mac, and Linux at the same time, but with module creation tools only available for Windows. I was hoping Loki might be able to port the tools to Linux. Looks like the chances of that are extremely slim now. They seem to be trying to say that things aren't so bad, but it sounds like they're a lot worse than they are letting on.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Given what I know now, I'd say wait to buy Loki products until someone other than Scott Draeker is in charge there.
Why? Does it matter if they are still funcitoning or doing well for their product to be useful to someone?
If they have developed a game you want to play, there's no reason not to buy it dispite the condition they happen to be in. At best, in the long run it won't matter, at worse, there won't be any more patches for your software. You'll still have the game you purchased.
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
However, this poster is correct in his guess that it is the exception rather than the rule. I can't vouch for this statistic but according to this article
http://www.nmbiz.com/issues/00/Jan/Orion.htm
Only 8% of companies that file from Chapter 11 emerge. Other articles I've read have executives stating that being in Chapter 11 is like having the courts run your company. Agressively attacking debts (chapter 11 essentially protects you from having creditors shut down your company) and emerging quickly seems to be a key to success.
In the meantime, what the hell do you all know, yah nay-saying twerps. Of course Loki is going to put the best possible spin on what is obviously a life-support measure. They wouldn't be filing if they weren't about to be shredded by their creditors otherwise. But in the meantime, other than simply disappearing in a puff of venture capital like most of the ill-conceived and overextended startups of the last 5 years, they are working to pay off as much of their debts as possible on a sustainable schedule. In the meantime, they keep contributing to the economy, their employees still ahve a job, and they still have a chance. Whether they manage to be one of the 8% is up to their customers and how wise the choices they make going forward are.
Well, Loki could make contracts that would allow simply selling patches. Hopefully they could arrange that by paying little to no royalties -- after all it would result in more sales for the original 'doze game.
According to the article on Linux Today, the "employee" in question was also effectively a huge investor as well. He couldn't just "pack up and leave" because he'd already sunk large amounts of money into the company (including - again according to the claims in the article - paying for Loki's payroll off of his personal credit card! I'd say that, foolish or not, sinking over $100,000 into a company you work for is pretty strong incentive to hang around trying to get it profitable as long as possible...)
Personally, it's starting to sound like the best thing for Loki is to move on, either as a different "legal entity" or not (i.e. have Loki liquidate its assets and have the remaining employees and other interested parties start a new company, buying Loki's liquidated assets) or still as Loki, but with somebody besides Draeker running it.
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
Also, LinuxGames did a retrospective article the night that the Loki news first broke. It covers history, achievements, difficulties, and the possible future of Loki. Read it here
Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy
Loki's whole goal is very laudable (making Windows games available natively for Linux.) However, as experience has shown, it isn't the most profitable venture in the world. Linux users are accustomed to getting their software for free, not paying for it. It therefore stands to reason that you cannot expect to make pots of money by taking software from a group of people who are used to paying for it (Windows users) and re-releasing it for those who are accustomed to downloading source tarballs (Linux users.)
/bin/ls to Windows users if we put it in a slick enough package and bought up enough ad space ("The Ultimate File Listing Tool for Windows!")
It seems to me that wealth creation could be maximized by doing the exact opposite thing: taking free games for Linux, packaging them, and then selling then to Windows users. What Windows user wouldn't purchase a copy of TuxRacer if he saw it on sale at Best Buy? XBill 2 would likely be a big hit. And think about it: the initial capital outlay is minimal (after all, the games are all free.) I'm willing to bet that we could sell
Loki's heart is in the right place, but if they want to dig themselves out of the hole that they have found themselves in, the best thing that they could possibly do is reverse their name to Ikol and start doing the exact opposite of what they're doing now.
We're going down, in a spiral to the ground
Well, this happened in the past to DigiCash as many of you might remember. The point there was not that the company was really out of money, the point was to get rid of Dr. David Chaum. Look here for details. Today eCash Technologies is a successful company with continuing support from the PREVIOUS Investors (the ones that pulled the plug). So, I do not think that this is the end for Loki. If they focus on their successful business and have patient Investors PLUS MANY customers. But that shouldn't be a problem, should it?
Yo, read the letter! They ARE making money now. Loki is very high class; there is no reason they shouldn't make money.
ZERO ZERO ONE ZERO ONE ZERO ONE ONE! Just brushing up for my next big invention: Ethernet over Voice (EoV)
Who's right?
The more you know, the less you understand.
Ahahahaha! I never thought of it that way, least I didn't pay money for my copy, but I feel, its a legal copy, someone else paid for it. :-(
--Nuintari
slashdot : where an opinion can be wrong.
...They represent mistakes made by a young company...
:)
Like a chair budget of $1000 per employee??
---- I made the Kessel Run in under 11 parsecs.
I enjoy an occasional game and REALLY don't want to keep a Windows box around just for that...
So go grab a Playstation 2 or Nintendo Gamecube when their prices drop. I've found it's more fun to play games that I can play with up to three of my friends in the same room than it is to play multiplayer over the 'net anyhow. It's also nice to be able to play on a big-screen TV set.
Another neat thing about consoles is that they're easy to pack up and take to a friend's place as well.
I also considered moving from Windows to Linux for many of my gaming needs. I, however, payed attention to the information regarding the Linux Tribes 2 port and was well aware that the Windows CD would not be patchable and that a seperate Linux specific version would need to be purchased, so I waited. I also understood the reason: Loki doesn't work for free, and they won't make money if people buy the Windows versions and just slap a patch to make them run under Linux. It was somewhat irritating that the Windows version was released several weeks earlier than the Linux version, though I did try the Windows version (borrowed a CD) under Windows 2000. The game, after three patches, would always crash with the oft-seen 'Unhandled Exception' error before I could play it. The Linux version, after installation, has played without a hitch every time.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
What does it matter how they "end up" anyway? You'd still own the game (<nitpick> the license </nitpick>), so what would it matter anyway?
Almost all companies in the world started on money financed by personal debt. It would only be stupid if they didn't file for chapter 11 protection before they got in too deep.
NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
Scot mentions that most of the debts are over a year old. yeah, they have debts to activision from a while ago, but anything recent has been either paid off, or they could pay off easily, if they didn't have these few bigs one from the past on them. They probably have a few debts all over the place, but their really seeking an extension on one or two big ones that are bringing them down. That's what I got out of it at least. If they could cover their asses for a little longer, they'd be looking good. I could be wrong. *Shrugs*
--Nuintari
slashdot : where an opinion can be wrong.
Some of the executive will be spending a lot of time satisfying the courts and creditors. Most of the programmers and and game designers (those who don't have executive duties) will remained focused on doing game work.
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
You try to make it in this world, you work hard, you put out good products that people enjoy, and what comes of it? Some older God, snobby old economy type, chains you to a rock bed and drips acid on your face for eternity.
Poor Loki. Poor, poor Loki.
Boycott Odin!
Dan
How does anyone come to a substansial conclusion from that email? Everyone is talking about how Chapter 11 means death but that is far from the truth if you don't know the specifics. Just because a company files for Chapter 11 doesn't mean it's anywhere near going out of business and since we don't know the specifics what's the FUD all about?
I think what happened was Loki was having a difficult time starting up. They finally started going and gaining income and either:
1. Neglected to pay some creditors.
2. Weren't in a position to pay creditors at the time.
3. Accountant totally forgot about it.
There are too many "ifs" to even speculate. So don't it makes you look like a jackass and in the mean time.. Play a game.
Nerds around the world will stand in line for warcraft 3 based on the stuff I've seen so far.
Port away!
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
The only difference is whether or not you want to wait 1 year or so for the port, or 8 years.
Funny.
Back at LWE in NYC this Spring, Loki approached the now defunct Chilliware, looking for a buyout.
Many phone calls and meetings later, a sum of $250,000 was reached; this would give Chilliware 100% rights to Loki software.
$250k aint alot of cash folks. Any company that can go under for that small an amount, well. Sheesh...
BTW, other companies that almost sold out to Chilliware:
*GNUCash (Houston, we have a problem...)
*Hancom
*EasyLinux (Hi Hans!)
Luckily, Chilliware imploded, thanks to the CEO's wandering eye and hands.
-----------------
Oh yeah, I have the source for iceSculptor, Mentor and Mohawk, if anyone wants to buy it...Chilliware owes me some big cash, and since none of the 'principals' will respond, I'll take it this way instead.
-----------------
The purpose of a Chapter 11 is to re-establish a relationship with your creditors so you can start getting your business setup again.
You file because of bad times, bad decisions, bad whatever. Hopefully it goes good, and it fades into history.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Oh come on, if everything was champagne and lollipops, they wouldn't have filed in the first place.
Given the history of VA, Penguin, and other pure linux companies, Loki will be reduced to the equivalent of loan sharking to finance the place in the long run. Reputable creditors will keep a safe distance.
I'd suggest instead buying the games you think you'd like to play, and not buying the ones you won't.
I don't fully understand the idea of supporting a company on principle, or based on who is in charge. If they produce quality product that I want, I'll buy it.
I can see arguments for not buying from companies whose owners have political or ethical stances you disagree with, like Dave Thomas of Wendy's (outspoken anti-homosexual). But because their president has poor business sense? That's the sort of thing that either they'll straigten out, or the market will straighten out for them, but doesn't seem like a worthwhile use of, effectively, a boycott. But hey, if you have moral and ethical issues with people who can't manage a company and its debts, knock yourself out.
-- Kate
Good luck to 'em.
Mordred
Seriously, I own a lot of Loki products and hope they stay around... I enjoy an occasional game and REALLY don't want to keep a Windows box around just for that...
.technomancer
I don't see how you can realistically operate a company with no line of credit. Loki will be sold, its almost certain.
So YOU'RE the one who's been breaking into my boxen...
You unwittingly provided the counter-example to your own argument. Classic!
Had Loki been able to release Linux ports of games at the same time as the Windows versions, things may have been very different. I'd certainly have bought some of the games if I didn't have to wait.
Tribes 2 was released at just about the same time for Windows and Linux. As they work more with different game producers, the time difference between the windows and linux versions will most likely decrease.
I remember when I was interviewing at Montgomery Ward in 97 for a network design engineer position. I didn't follow the news, so I didn't know MW had just filed ch. 11 the day before the interview. The director who interviewed me brought up the issue as soon as we sit down. It sounded almost exactly like this.
Ch. 11 gave them almost 4 years, but it still went down.
08/15/2001: Wednesday Loki Is Dead ... Score: -1 Insightful
Loki, a company devoted to porting popular Windows games to the Linux platform, filed for bankruptcy protection early this week. Although this may look like the official death of Linux as desktop alternative, posters on Slashdot insist that this is all "good news" for Linux enthusiasts.
Owing millions of dollars in licensing fees to various game developers, Loki failed to find a market selling games to people who are not used to paying for software. It seems the company could not convince enough game enthusiasts to shell out another fifty bucks for a Linux version of a game they already own for Windows.
Most of the posts on Slashdot mourned the loss of a another Linux-friendly company. Although this was one of many Linux bankruptcies in the past few months, users of the operating system maintain that the desktop OS war has already been fought and won ... by Linux ... dammit.
Slashdot prides itself on the open-mindedness of its readership and the lively egalitarian debates held on its pages. For example, in response to one post questioning the need for Linux as a mainstream desktop operating system, a user responded with a mature and reasoned post:
"Fuck the shut up, all of you! I'm writing a bot to make sure that any anti-Linux poster gets banned from /. or at least modded down. All of your negativity is getting in the way of our free and open forum."
It is fortunate that the Linux community has such an open and democratic forum to vent their frustrations [if they were frustrations, which they certainly aren't]. Just as Henry Ford offered the public a panoply of colors for his early automobiles as long as they were black, Slashdot accepts the entire spectrum of opinion on issues of open source and the free software movement.
"You are all a bunch of ridiculous fucktards," wrote a user named Anonymous Coward. "To all of you FUD-mongers who see Linux only as a server OS only, you should troll someplace else. You are not wanted here in our welcoming community. Slashdot is all about freedom of speech. So, shut the hell up before I use my various /. Logins to flame you into oblivion!"
The quality of opinions expressed on Slashdot have remained high even as the quantity of posts grows exponentially. The reason for the sudden rise in traffic may have something to do with the increase in the amount of free time the average dot-com worker has these days.
Since Slashdot as much a game as message board [users are objectively "scored" on every post], some have devised tricks to get their comments moderated up. One of the easiest ways to accomplish this is to pick a random quotation and plug in the appropriate proper nouns for instant wisdom.
"Loki is dead." wrote one poster. "Long live Loki."
"I come here to bury Loki, not to praise them."
"Forst Pist," added another. "All your base are belong to us!"
All told, the Linux community is upbeat [and not at all defensive] about the recent round of set-backs [if you want to call them that, because they're not "set-backs" at all].
In the aftermath of Loki's demise, however, Linux users will always have their old stand-by to fall back on: playing stolen Windows games.
Jim42688: Go ahead, mod me down because I stuck a mirror in front of you...
If anyone from Loki is reading this, are you planning on porting Heroes of Might and Magic IV? It's scheduled to be released next month (although that's not official) and I'm wondering if I should wait to buy the Linux version.
I want to buy the Linux version. I would prefer to buy the Linux version. However, I mostly just want to play the game. I've been playing III since it came out, and am eagerly awaiting IV. The reason I didn't buy III for Linux is that I had already bought it for Windows when it first came out.
What does everyone else here do? Say that the answer is "We're porting it. It will be a few months." What do you do? Buy both? Wait? I can't see waiting more than a couple of weeks. If it's a simultaneous release, I'll buy the Linux version. But if it's not?
Seems like there's no easy answer.
I like to play games, but I don't have a Windows machine[1] so the result is, I haven't played games lately. Dual-booting is not an option because I like to have things like mail, irc, browsers, etc, running all the time, I don't like it when these get interrupted and I don't like it when people can't reach me, even for a short time. So my solution to this: stop playing games. Possibly a good thing because I got more than the usual amount of work done, but the fact is, I enjoy games. A couple weeks ago I downloaded a Loki demo just out of interest - Heros of Might and Magic - had lots of fun, and realized that I really owe it to myself not to cut off this form of enjoyment. Maybe not go overboard like in the past, but just relax and play every now and then.
So ok, next thing, Loki does chapter 11 and I think "hey, it's my fault, I waited too long". Must be lots like me, maybe this is just the wakeup call we need. I'll pick up 2-3 Loki games this week. I mean, what's the downside? It will for sure help Loki in their time of need, and whatever happens, I've still got the game, right? And it's not like I can't afford it.
I guess I'll just make it a regular habit to buy whatever they come out with from now on. I mean, their titles are *great* and I don't give a rats ass how many months they've been out on Windows, because I don't run Windows. Simple.
[1]deleted the last Windows partition a few months ago after not using it for more than a year
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
It can also be good for the creditors, too. You can't get money from a company that's filed for Chapter 7, as that means the company has gone out of business, but generally the payments are rescheduled in a Chapter 11 bankruptcy so the creditors at least have a shot at getting all of what they're owed.
Of course, the folks at Loki probably would rather have not filed for protection, as it is a very public admission of being in over your head, but this doesn't mean that they're going to go under no matter what.
Actually, chapter 11 is used to project a serious debt or can even been use to project against serious (in value) lawsuits claims.
I know that USG (http://www.usg.com) filed for chap 11 (http://www.usg.com/special/) basically as protection for a class action lawsuit against serveral serveral companies (including them) for asbestos-related claims. As they were the only company that had not filed Chap 11, everybody was going have them.
Chap 11 can be used to project a company because of large debt. Allowing them to restructure and the debt and while making sure they don't increase it.
While it is true that those plans may not work. Chap 11 is designed to allow companies to attempt to corrected a large debt problem will still providing to the people we are entailed to the money.
Just because a company files Chap 11 does not mean they are doomed. It means they made stupid mistakes before and hopefully they can correct it.
If Loki is making money (minus of course the debt) then they have a good chance of continuing to move forward.
In the earlier thread, I urged people to help out Loki by buying their games. In light of recent information (both obtained through friends in the biz and various web articles), I have changed my mind.
I've worked for companies where someone held things together using their personal credit. That's a sign of poor management at best, and sheer stupidity at worst.
Given what I know now, I'd say wait to buy Loki products until someone other than Scott Draeker is in charge there. That's what I intend to do, at least. I was going to buy the Linux port of Kohan this weekend (I own the PC version already); now, I think I'll wait and see where Lokie ends up before giving them my money.
All about me
Except for Quake 3 all the porting was done by id Software. Hense it didn't cost anything else extra for Loki to distribute the game under windows. In the case of Tribes 2, the game was ported by Loki, so they have a finicial interest in recouping the costs of the port. When more companies write software for three platforms from the get go, then everyone will be like ID, but until then just don't buy the Windows version if your interested in the Linux one. Best things come to those who wait.
I guess the point of this letter was to try to convince Linux fans that Chapter 11 wasn't the end of the world, that Loki wasn't going under.
I think Loki needs to not only restructure its debts, it needs to restructure its business practice. Instead of paying hefty royalties to produce Linux versions of games that are already released, perhaps Loki could focus on more "timeless" games. You know, the games that aren't based on the latest and greatest graphics (Tribes 2) and aren't any fun after a year. They're expensive to produce, require high-end hardware, and only have a short 1-2 year shelf life before nobody wants it.
I think Loki could make a fair amount of money creating a unique game and producing it for both Windows and Linux. I'm not convinced that money can be made in the porting business, but a well-run game design place can. Focus all of Loki on one good game, of whatever genre, and market it well. Sell both Linux and Windows versions. If you buy one version, you should be able to get a 50% or more off the price of the other version. Sure, Loki can still port a game or two (c'mon, port Civ III - I'll pay $50 for it!). I high-end game companies have a hard time making profits off of games because of expensive development costs. Loki has a solid base of games that work great and can generate some revenue while they develop their own games that have a sensible budget.
Too many game companies are focusing on great graphics and the latest 3D cards. Instead, the focus should be on playability and creativity. If Loki makes a great game and has a version for Linux and Windows, it's sure to make a good chunk of money.
"The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." --Carl Sagan
The reason they filed for chapter 11 is that their business is running well except for financial distress on loans that they've had for a while now. This means that if they can manage to get rid of their loans, the company will be doing fine. It's worth helping any company break out of financial distress as long as the company would be profitable otherwise. This is fairly basic economics.
Phluid!
If you really want to know what happened, check out this Linux Today Story.
Basically, Scott has been screwing his employees over for the last 18 months, and when he was told to pay up, cowardly claimed chapter 11 so that he could continue paying himself, and no-one else.
I think all of this sympathy is misplaced.
Most of the debts we are restructuring through the Chapter 11 are well over a year old.
We've... become cash positive.
It doesn't work that way. You may have income, but you're not positive if you can't pay your debts. Part of a successful reorganization is recognizing the situation you're in so you can fix it.
I wish them the best of luck, but they have some more thinking to do.
I've often wondered what the economics of a porting company like Loki are like. For instance Vendor X sells game Y for $49.95 and there are 100,000 potential customers, only 10,000 of them happen to be running a variant operating system that you aren't targeting. However, under further analysis you learn that 9,000 of them dual-boot to your target environment, so they're actually potential candidates anyways. So company Y comes along and offers to port your software for those 10,000 users. Now really despite the fact that it has a potential market of 10,000 users, really 9,000 were potential users already, so the porting is purely a convenience for them, and the 1,000 are truly bonafide new customers.
Anyways you can see how economically this can get pretty convoluted, and it must be under tight terms that porting contracts written: I would presume that for the majority of the prospective market the original game was a candidate already. Bleh.
I've been dissapointed by Loki once recently. I was thinking of moving from windows to linux on my home gaming system, figured i'd be able to play tribes 2 in linux, since i had heard it was done. I didn't realize the windows cd isn't patchable (like q3a is). To make things worse, Loki only sells complete CDs, not patches. And after spending 70$ on the win version, i figured i may as well say in win than move to linux and pay it again. If he had, for example, been selling a 15 dollar patch, i may have migrated.
You obviously don't hang out on the Loki newsgroups do you? This must be the most asked, most discussed question on those newsgroups.
Simply put, it doesn't make any financial sense for Loki to do this. Selling games on the Linux platform will, at least for the immediate future, be selling to a much smaller market than the Windows platform. Therefore the economies of scale which allow the cost-cutting seen with Windows games are just not an option for Loki - if every Loki game could be run on Linux by buying the Windows version (often more cheaply) and patching it to run on linux, Loki would not have released as many games as it has and it would be filing for Chapter 7. Bust. Finito. Gone.
Even allowing people to pay purely for the patch rather than new physical media would cut any margins they currently enjoy to nothing. Out of the $15 you propose, you can forget about $10 dollars as tax and payment to the original vendor (id software, Dynamix, etc.) and only leave tiny crumbs for Loki. $35 would probably make about the right margin - you can buy most Loki games for that and get a Linux-specific manual as well.
Have I been disappointed with Loki? No - everything I have bought has run straight out of the box. Most problems are fixed promptly and the installation and patching is an easy, trouble free process. And quite frankly, Urban Terror rocks my world :-)
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
Pervert.
Yes, it would be nice to have decent games under Linux, but Loki is a terrible company. The creditor that sued Loki and caused this whole situation with them filing for bankruptcy was a former employee whom Loki (Scott Draeker, specifically) robbed blind! He's just trying to get some of the money he invested in the company (while working there for 19 months and not being paid) back.
Support Loki's former employees (hint: all the good employees left the company already), but don't support the company or Scott Draeker.
No ... that's "if you like to play brand-new computer games". If you've grown up enough to realize that being six months or a year old doesn't make a game suck, then you're perfectly happy playing games that were released for winders earlier.
That said, lots of people do think that anything but the latest and greatest isn't worth playing, and the number of games available for Linux is significantly less than for windows, so people who play a lot of games may choose to have a windows machine. So yes, there's still a place for making more and better games for Linux.
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Thereby actually making it better than the original platform version. Look at UT, a nice 45 second load time under windows and a fraction of that under Linux.
Just because of that the game is better in my opinion. I hate waiting for it to load up under windows.
And under windows, it doesn't properly release my sound card either so I have to reboot right after playing it... dont see that happening under Linux now do ya?
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
IT's for when you owe people money, and you can't pay. The idea is that you can stave off the creditors for a while, deal with them all fairly and evenly, and allow your company to start making some money. This doesn't mean 'making money because they don't have to pay bills'... it is designed to give them breathing room in order to dig their way out.
A *seriously* troubled company wouldn't bother with Chapter 11... they would just dissolve.
Seriously, these are good guys who actually provide quality products at reasonable prices. It would be a shame to see them go.
Buy Hex-Rated Stuff, fight the DMCA!
I sincerly hope that this recent news about loki doesn't mean the end for them. However have you
ever tried convince your local games shop to order in copies. I really hope they review thier distribution channel while restructuring. After all some of us aren't comfortable ordering merchendise from the internet (and is it any wonder with all the news about computer security problems).
This is a completely unreasonable request.
You do realize that Loki has to *pay* companies for the right to port games? And that they front all of the money for the porting? If Loki gave away patches, or sold them for $15, they would lose IMMENSE amounts of cash on every title they ported. The only way they can make money is to sell the game at the normal price.
It isn't their fault that you bought the Windows CD. Would you bitch and moan if you had migrated to a Mac, and needed a new CD?
The only reason Q3A for Linux could use the Windows CDs is because Id made the port themselves, and just contracted Loki to keep it updated and distributed. Loki didn't initially pay to port it.
TINSTAAFL. If you want Linux games, you have to buy Linux games, not buy Windows games with the hope that some company is benevolent enough to front the money to port it, and not get any profits back. Or, you need to convince game shops to make their products cross-platform to begin with, which would negate the need for other companies to port them.
-[Blaine]- "'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic."
1) While I'm not a hardcore gamer, I enjoy playing a game from time to time
2) It makes sense to support a company who makes cool stuff for your platform of choice (similarly, I donated to Mandrake after downloading their latest release). I have a decent job and can afford to miss some cash in exchange for a quality product.
3) Not everything should/can be free. If you want Linux ports of closed source (ie: professional) games, someone will have to pay for them. Otherwise resign yourself to the fact that you'll have to resort to the likes of Tuxracer and Freeciv in terms of games (and I'm not dissing these games, they're written by hobbyists and simply don't compete in the professional game market).
So to sum it up, if you want Loki to be around a year from now, fork over some $ for a game. If you think the price is too steep, team up with your fellow Linux diehards and purchase a game for a few of you. While not exactly right/legal, it's still better if 3 people buy 1 game to share than nobody buying the game at all. Loki makes quality products for our favorite OS; I hope that they'll still be around a few years from now ...
(And leaves my system in a nice, stable state - you may wanna check with your sound card manufactorer and upgrade to the latest drivers - sounds like you've got some issues with the current ones.)
Yeah, I really see the increase of performance under Linux... at least with Linux, I can killall -9 ut to stop it, while under Windows - wait, I've never had a problem under Windows that requires me to kill it. I just choose "Exit."
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
Seriously. Buying the license from EA (or whomever) can't cost that much, it should be possible to make a network/client model, and as we all remember, multi-player on C64 (or Atari x00) was doable.
Hell, I'd pay $20 for that. I'd even buy two copies to play against my wife.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
So, let's say that you buy the right to port title 'A' to Linux for US$200,000 and the right to port a less-popular title 'B' to Linux for US$35,000. You could easily lose money on the first deal and make it back up on the second one, even if it sells fewer copies. Game publishers will charge much more for 'hits' than duds, which is why the ported Linux games are usually pretty good titles, but not the cream of the crop titles (which probably cost much more to port than they could hope to recoup). Certain publishers are very harsh, which is probably why Halflife was never sold at retail....
Basically, the game publishers want money up front and they have no risk. The porting houses take on all the work and risk whenever they port a title; small companies like Loki and Aspyr can be hurt because they have no leverage -- it's a take-it-or-leave-it deal. Also, you probably won't see parity on title releases unless the developers believe in the moral proposition (id and Blizzard seem to be the only companies that do -- and id is the only one that will do it outside of Macintosh), because if the game is wildly successful the pulisher can make more money by squeezing the retail sales than by granting porting rights. After the game's sales dissipate they can get another injection of cash by selling the porting rights to smaller companies and let them assume the risk of sales. Hence, Linux is very tricky to play -- most users can just boot into Windows if they want to play a game badly enough (ahem, CmdrTaco + Diablo).
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
You don't have to have bought into the Linux religeon. You just have to hate Microsoft.
And that is really, really easy for anyone who remembers what personal computers were like 10-15 years ago. Nothing RMS/ESR/LT says is a factor in that.
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FWIW, the last few games I bought from Loki were packaged very efficiently. Just a DVD case and maybe a slip of paper or a tiny book. A great improvement from the early days when they shipped cardboard boxes fiull of air.
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This sounds like a great way to rack up a lot of expenses, followed by a long delay (development time), ending with a totally unpredicable amount of revenue (depending on how popular the game turns out to be). Not the kind of thing I wanna see Loki do.
Let someone else take that kind of risk, and stick to working on existing code and art, on games where the gameplay has already gotten good reviews, and at least a little free marketing research has already been done for you, Loki.
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