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Surfing the Web Haptically
Chakat sent us a story about Haptic feedback, a buzzword ready technology where the mouse provides tactile feedback in addition to letting you click on your porn. Seriously I would love a bit of feedback when my mouse moves over a button or a link: Sorta like how modern window managers can snap borders to edges of other windows or the screen when moving or resizing... I think that a similar tactile thing for buttons would ease mouse navigation. Or else I can just continue binding ridiculous things like Ctrl-Alt-Shift-Meta-F8 to every little action.
Can I get haptic feedback on those pictures of blue naked people at Burning Man? I'm not sure that's a good idea after all.
Those X-10 bastards would have a field day with this.
In all seriousness, what's the big deal? Porn's is big business, and it's good money. Just because we could make money off of it doesn't mean we become nasty porn mongers. I mean, look how much money people like Marriot, run by the friggin mormons, makes off of pay per view porn. Doesn't make them a porn company.
I really think we need to develop this market. Maybe then my options could be worth something...
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -- Carl Sagan
Seriously I would love a bit of feedback when my mouse moves over a button or a link: Sorta like how modern window managers can snap borders to edges of other windows or the screen when moving or resizing...
But imagine the virtual "gravity well" sucking your mouse into the ad banners.
Brings a whole new meaning to "real time black hole".
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
This would probably be great for reading braille webpages. Otherwise, it sounds annoying.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
For the 2nd time today.. this HAS been going on for a while. You can make your Windows desktop and website touchy feely using the logitech i-feel mouse. I have one and it actually works okay.
Just improve it a bit and you got it...
"Yes.. no matter what the culture, folk dancing is stupid." -MST3K
END RANT MODE
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance" - Derek Bok
So far today there have been articles on tactile mouse feedback, replicators, and browser spyware that records mouse movements. Of course, we already know that the porn industry will be the first to utilize these things to full effect, but can you imagine what it would be like to use all three? Imagine images the react to your mouse movement and give you tactile feedback, all while replicating on your desk!
I like to play children's songs in minor keys.
"We're all sons of bitches now." --J. Robert Oppenheimer
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
"On Wednesday, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates showed off a handheld computer that understands which way is up and where it's being touched."
His wife was, reportedly, fuming on the sidelines of the press conferance. Apparently, she was mumbling something about the invention resulting in her role being usurped in the couple's sex life.
"Old man yells at systemd"
You can make your Windows desktop and website touchy feely using the logitech i-feel mouse. I have one and it actually works okay.
Got one myself, but there's a drawback: no matter what settings I put it on, it makes my wrists hurt within minutes. I've got the onset symptoms of carpal tunnel syndrome, and it's really getting better, but I had to turn off the iFeel feedback. Weird.
What's your damage, Heather?
I stumbled apon what I now know is a simulation of Haptic feedback several times in the past. To enable this simulation, simply eat corn/potato chips in the general vicinity of your mousepad.
Of course, the bumps don't really correspond to whats on the screen, but every once in a while, damned if it doesn't seem that way!
m00.
I've tried the whole "Immersion" Tech with those Logitech Mice. It kind of feels like a gummed up mouse (rollerball style, not Laser), almost like some forgot to clean the rollers. It get's annoying real fast.
I hope this is more than that, otherwise count me out.
Sean D.
"Hmm. I am to metaphor cheese as metaphor cheese is to transitive verb crackers!"
UNC has been using haptic interfaces, in conjunction with VR technology, to allow [bio]chemists the ability to 'assemble' new compounds at the atomic level. The researchers have grappling arms attached to their hands. The atomic repulsion/attraction is felt by the user, and can be used to figure out how the atoms / molecules should join together.
I think...I think it's in my basement. Let me go upstairs and check. -M.C. Escher (1898-1972)
So this is touch; we've had sound for a good while, and of course sight. Throw in aromatherapy and you've got the whole experience. I seem to recall that about 6 years ago the hot topic was the "3D Virtual Reality" interface, but nothing really came of that. Fundamentally, I don't think these technologies make the computer more productive as a work device - on the contrary, they tend to get in the way. Is there anybody out there that does productive computing that actually uses systems sounds beyond the basic "bell"?
Personally, I prefer fluid motion - I don't want an interface to get in the way. This doesn't mean that I don't think this technology could have an application in the computer as an entertainment device, but I'll believe it when I see it. For my 3D-sense-enabled experiences, I prefer going for a walk.
It would be great to feel the mouse actully give back when you cross over something or near it. Sometimes I have trouble finding where the dang pointer is when I'm working on people's computers. Mostly when their screen is all white with the default pointer in windows. But just think about it when playing games too. Imagine taking a rocket in quake and actually having your hand pushed back a little. Or if you run into a wall and it won't let you push it anymore. Of course it could work for any game out there.
%blow
%blow: No such job
^how did the sex change go?
Modifier failed
I wouldn't mind a mouse where there is a tactile surface where the buttons are today. There would have to be several configuration options.
- tactile graphics, turn on/off
- Tactile text turn on/off
- tactile intensity adjustment, similar to sharpness - brightness - contrast in monitors
- Scale adjustments for buttons, etc.
I wouldn't mind having tactile for buttons, table edges, lines, etc.although I wonder what the best way for to enable your right/secondary click options would be.
- - -
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"If You have a Story, We have a Soap Box"
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I'm not arguing against the technology, not at all. I'm just wondering where we draw the line, when things come to a point where we step back and take a look at ourselves and say "wtf?".
Or else I can just continue binding ridiculous things like Ctrl-Alt-Shift-Meta-F8 to every little action.
Yikes, a quintiple-bucky...
I meant we as individuals. These two comments lead me to me believe I misrepresented what I intended to say in the original comment. I'll have to try it again if I can think of a better way to explain it.
In David Brin's "Sundiver" they administered a test, where they studied a person's eyeball movements as they were shown a picture. The objects of focus, lingering time, and relative timing of noticing those objects in the first second or two were construed to have deep psychological meaning. The test results were used to determine who was a rightful member of society, and who bore 'watching'.
Obviously haptics is less sophisticated than eyeball tracking, but perhaps not really. Eyeball tracking is straightforward once you have the sensor. Inferring the same type of information from mouse movements seems in some ways more sophisticated to me.
So put on your Gibsonian hats for a moment, and imagine an Echelon/Carnivore-type backdoor *required* in haptic feedback systems. Then have data-mining of that information looking for criminal or terrorist tendancies. Unlikely? Yep. But compared to Strategic Missile Defense?
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
15 years ago, when the Atari 2600 ruled the roost and Ms. Pacman came out for it (what a great game given the console's limitations), my mother (who was very good at it) claimed that the game would sometimes physically drag her down tunnels to her demise. She *swore* she could feel the joystick tugging in the wrong direction, despite her best efforts to go elsewhere. Having opened the joysticks several times, I tried my best to convince her that this was *not* possible, but she refused to believe me. So my mother would really rather not have anything to do with any *more* haptic input, thank you very much.
this is something i'd been contemplating for a while, then i saw the logitech iFeel mouse. i wanted to try one in an everyday/productivity environment, but all i could find was their cheezy store display that made the mouse 'buzz' when you scrolled over a dot.
my goal is to find an other-than-visual feedback mechanism for everyday UI controls; i.e. being able to locate/confirm buttons, menu items, without relying soley on visual input to do so.
the goal is simple: to get faster. i already use the Finder sounds on my MacOS machine, the audible feedback allows me to already be retraining my visual focus on the next task position even before i click to complete the current one - i know to click when i hear the blip. it allows you to lead with your eyes; you spend less time pondering the next task.
audio, however, is not the most convenient feedback mechanism. in noisy office environments you either have to wear headphones and be in a cocoon, or turn your speakers up, and the constant bleeps will probably annoy your cubicle neighbors enough that they plot some sort of revenge.
so, does anyone own one of the logitechs? pity it's such a simple/flat mouse, i don't think the company has really explored this as a productivity enhancing tool, so it would seem that this one is the litmus test to see if the market embraces it or dismisses it as a novelty.
www.pixelectric.com
the mouse-watching tech and we'll really be on to something!
sulli
RTFJ.
Certianly there will be some use for some people, but overall they will be a small percentage.
General browsing(what most people do) will only be handicapped as webwienies..er webmasters, find ways to use this for everything on the site they master..er maintain.
short of wiring the actual tactile sense into your brain, this will never be tactile enough to judge textile products with.
and of course gamers will claim that there is an 'unfair' advantge to this as some people download driver that lets them 'feel' when there on target. Which will allow people who MIGHT have that ability to be banned from certain server(like having a driver which gives you the ability to see through walls, even though your not using it).
basically its another really cool technology with very limited real world use.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
That being said, it is really sad to think that there have been few really innovative and memorable improvements to the human-computer interface since the original Macintosh in 1984. (Yes I know Messr. Jobs got it from Xerox - cool your jets flamers. The Mac was the first widely available GUI system. Facts are facts.)
Not only is it time to start thinking more seriously about using the 4 other senses besides sight to enhance the human-computer interface (no pr0n jokes, please - I'm serious) but it is also high time to realize that not everyone has the use of their eyes. This type of interface improvement can do wonders for the visually impaired computer users among us. I'd like to see more improvements of this type.
Laws affecting technology will always be bad until enough techies become lawyers.
"On Wednesday, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates showed off a handheld computer that understands which way is up and where it's being touched."
Why do I get the feeling this is the only reason why this new technology was reported?
"Oh, wow, Bill Gates said it, so it must be true..."
*fumes*
is what you'll most likely do should you come accross the only piece of equipment in existence today that actually uses this technology: the force feedback mouse. If you haven't tried it: it vibrates if you place the mousepointer on something that can be clicked. If you run into the edge of a window, it, well, also vibrates.
hardly the most exciting "user experience".
somehow, I don't see them get from "vibrate" to "within 10 years, shoppers will be able to "feel" a piece of silk or other fabric simply by rubbing their finger over a computer screen" (article). if we're supposed to be able to mimic "the feel of silk" in ten years, right now we should've been able to "feel the shape of a woman's tits", i should think. and i'm pretty sure the porn industry would've picked up on this if it were possible.
i wouldn't expect this technology to come into existence within the next ten years if i were you. nor twenty or thirty.
News and bla for computer musicians: http://lomechanik.net/
How about instead of Haptic feedback, someone invents slapstick feedback!
When you click on an banner ad, you get a pie in the face!
Not only is it time to start thinking more seriously about using the 4 other senses...
My computer already makes use of the sense of smell...
"My processor's melting, my processor's melting!!"
I am the hub of Jack's digital lifestyle.
Well taco, the Logitech iFeel mouse has been out for several months and is already able to do that. I have one. It is usb-only (which is a pain to set up sometimes even with the latest kernel) and there are no drivers for linux that allow it to use the vibration, though. With the windows drivers, it vibrates whenever you move it over a link in IE, but it is not that helpful, because it doesn't keep vibrating. You feel the same then whether you move it past the link or not. Not very helpful. And it only works in Internet Explorer, not Netscape or Opera (which is by far the best-engineered browser of them all). All in all the mouse is neat but the tactile feedback is not useful. So, in my opinion, this "feedback" techonology is not the next big thing, and will be almost unheard of in a few years except in specialized tasks.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Along the same lines, computers and monitors should include small explosive charges that could be detonated in the same circumstances.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
hubbabubba
I yam a proud and happy
Fried ice cream is a reality. - George Clinton
One word: Prozac.
Explanation: Do you know what a car looks like when it's stored in thousands of little ziplock baggies? Every nut, bolt, screw, and washer labelled as to where it came from?
I bought so many Ziplock baggies from my local warehouse-style super-saver grocery store that they had the cops meet me outside. They thought I was a big-time drug trafficker. When I invited them to my house to show they my car, they couldn't stop laughing and shaking their heads.
That was when I got help.
OTOH, it's very easy to find a water pump pulley bolt as I reassemble the engine.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
(Humor, not flamebait. Please mod accordingly.)
Even the simple iFeel is a *little* more than just "shaking or not" -- it does have "varying degrees of vibration" and the frequency of shaking can be chosen too as indicated (http://moore.cx/dan/out/ifeel/). Irregular patterns of vibration can be handled by just timing individual pulses in software. The Immersion software simulates textures by triggering pulses of various intensities that correspond to the mouse position/movement. It isn't spectacular, but is a much better effect than I anticipated. There are pointing devices that do actually restrict movement, in particular I've seen at least one that is a mouse, but they're much more expensive. The nice thing about the iFeel is that it gives another non-intrusive way to indicate something to the user at very low cost. The bad thing is that no one really uses it well right now.
This seems to rate right up there with speech recognition as one of those technologies whose advent has been only 5 years away for the past 15 years.
Speech recognition is here. It works. It works very well. And it doesn't take a ton of resources.
But no one wants it! Except for a few specialty uses, people simply do not want to talk to their computer. It's embarassing.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Again, making the virtual world more like the real world. Anyone remember the Simpsons' episode where Marge could get the kids to do yard work, but as soon as they saw the yard work simulator they wanted to do that?
She sat at the window watching the evening invade the avenue.
Then again, the novelty will probably wear off after 10 minutes and I'll be back to console lynx style...
Serious question: is there a window manager that will let me do X mouse operations using user definable keyboard commands? E.g. I'd really like to replace the "middle-click" with, say, the F12 key.