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New Joystick Style Ergo Mouse
Mr_Perl writes "For those of us who love to use a mouse to play games, except for the wrist pain after too much of it, 3M has come up with a joystick-mouse type thing that is in my opinion very comfortable to use." I'd love to try one of these out. Not available yet tho. update my bad, it is out. Now I gotta find one.
I can't remember who made it, but I distinctly remember owning a mouse like this.
It was mostly likely one of those really cheaply made jobbies, but if I recall it was awful experience. I never got the pinpoint accuracy I could with a regular mouse.
Anir has been manufacturing these for a while.
http://www.animax.no/anirmousepro.html
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My roommate bought one because it was different, but it's not as easy to use as you'd figure. To get an idea, try writing with a pen like you did when you were in kindergarten (thumb on top).
Incidentally, shortly afterward, it became apparent that I tend to use my fingertips to control a regular mouse with greater precision. Perhaps you may find the same thing.
"They said I probly shouldn't fly with just one eye," "I am Bender. Please insert girder."
It's a shame it isn't an optical mouse, I doubt I'm the only one who hates the 'jumping' effect of ball mice when they get a little dust in them.
I would have thought smooth running would have been essential for game players
I keep wondering why anyone would introduce a new high-end mouse with a ball. The new breed of track-on-any-surface opticals are far superior to anything mechanical, especially if you work in a dirty (or dusty, or cat-infested) environment.
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
Huh? Not available yet? The article says available form 4th quarter 2000. My sister has been using one of these for several months, as she had to leave her cold fusion programming job 'caus of a severe autonomic nerve condition that developed from computer related RSI. she finds this 3M device to be good, in conjunction with Dragon Naturally Speaking to avoid using the keyboard.
Its not really that joystick like though since it is the whole base that moves.
The reason it is better for RSI is that the thumb nerves are supposed to be far less fragile
Using a mouse has several distinct advantages in gaming. One of which is a nasty little response time that can be accomplished by simply "flicking" your wrist. This becomes an invaluable skill in fast-paced, high action games (Q3). With the Renaissance Mouse, your wrist becomes immobile so the mouse movement will be dictated by moving your arm.
I understand that immobilization the wrist will combat wrist pain, but there will be significant gaming trade-offs... Most hard core gamers I know would rather deal with wrist pain than become considerably slower at their favorite games.
"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." - Jack Nicholson
Why isn't it available yet, CmdrTaco? Don't you read your own linked pages ? there it says:
Compatible with PC's, Macintosh, and iMac computers with USB ports. PC's- operate using WIN 95, 98 and NT4.0. Win 2000 available 4th quarter 2000. Macintosh/iMac/iBook-operate using Apple O/S 8.1 or higher with USB upgrades. Plug and play only, no software.So it should be available for more than 9 months. Also look for the Where to buy button at the bottom of the page.
... whenever a text is transmitted, variation occurs. This is because human beings are careless, fallible, and occasiona
I'm left handed, but I was forced into using a mouse with my right hand during my time at University.
I find it easier this way, and it has the added bonus of being able to write while using the mouse.
from Misco (http://www.misco.ca) for $94.95 and is available in 2 sizes.
:)
- No I dont work there, I just have a catalog in front of me.
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...only right-handed people get wrist problems or want nice mice. This has been an annoyance to me for quite a while. While I can use the mouse on the right side, it feels more comforatble for me to use it on the left. I cannot find even one nice, three button wheel mouse designed specifically for lefties and yet I find scads of nice ones for righties. I am so tired of this (admittedly minor) discrimination and it's not even just WRT mice. I see it with other products too, but mice seem to hit closest to home.
Everyone needs to make a conscious effort to finding a mouse and mouse usage technique that minimizes the effort and stress on their body.
How I avoid pain when using mice:
Find a mouse that you can move with your fingers alone.
I use the Logitech Mouseman 3-button mouse at work and at home. I grip the mouse body between my thumb and my last two fingers. Usually, my pinky is actually touching the mousepad, and my wrist is resting on the desk. As a result, the majority of my hand and arm never move.
I can move the mouse from the bottom of the screen to the top of the screen by simply ensuring my pinky is anchored on the mousepand and flexing my thumb. And I'm usually off a straight vertical from where I started (judging by window borders) by fewer than 10 pixels.
Finally, turn mouse acceleration/speed way up. Smaller movements yield the cross-screen movement I need.
Finding a mouse that requires fingers only and finding the techniques to use with that shape of mouse are the keys in my mind.
I haven't used it, but I suspect I'd really dislike this joystick mouse....way to much muscle required.
My fingers are agile, I'll let them do the walking.
This doesn't look comfortable at all. Movement would seem to require moving your whole arm. I haven't used one, but it looks like it would be really clunky to use.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
We've had this availble in the UK since around the end of 1999! A couple of people where I work have had it and we also certainly didn't get it from 3M!
Although it's a little weird at first and you look at it and can't imagine how it could be comfortable. It is acutally quite nice to use. But unlike a mouse which you can use standing, this is pretty useless if you doing anything but sitting.
The mouse mentioned in the article is called "the RenMouse".
Does anybody else feel the need to protect his new mouse with a rubber walrus protector?
Of course, when it stops working you can always shout "YOU BLOATED SACK OF PROTOPLASM!" at it.
I also suppose they will be bringing out the StimpyPedals as an accessory.
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Coworkers tried it out, theyre ordering them now. ALL wrist sorness and tiredness went away. I love it. Its awkward for the first day or two till you get the hang of it, but its perfect after that.
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..looking at the pics, reading text phrases like "Available in two sizes - small/medium or large - for optimal ergonomic fit" and the "Vertical Grips"-bla etc., i thought you link to some kind of pr0n-Shop
;)
I'm right handed but when I started using a mouse, a co-worker advised me to use my left hand for the mouse.
His reasoning were that it is equally awkward whichever hand you use when you're a beginner. Moreover, you can not only write with your right hand but also use the arrow keys and the number-pad and the mouse simultaneously. And yes, I often find that I have the left hand on the mouse and the right hand on the arrow keys.
And yes, I can use a mouse with my right hand but it works better when I use my left.
My opinion? See above.
Looks more comfortable than a mouse but I think I'd prefer trigger buttons instead of a thumb control. It's just too awkward. Even in games, nobody maps the thumb buttons to the most actively used action control. I'd suggest that going vertically down the front of the joystick would be: trigger - scroll wheel - trigger. One control for each finger.
I'm sure 3M was making a mouse exactly like this one that was on the .au market years ago.
Try moving your mouse around by resting your semi closed hand on it. Notice how much more effort that is required and what an uncomfortable method this would be. I don't move my mouse with my arm, I flick it around the entire screen, and have done so for more than 10 years starting with the original MS mouse (the pregnant ergo MS mouse is horrible for this though, the bump gets in the way), with three fingers moving with my wrist stationary on the mouse pad.
This 3M joy-mouse is not even optical! I rather love my Logitech Optical Mouseman Wheel, I don't even wish it were a wireless one, as I have the mouse cable, cable-tied with enough slack in a loop, to my keyboard cable where it enters the keyboard case, this way, it never gets caught or drags on anything (on a keyboard/mouse slide drawer). It may as well be wireless, since the days of feeling the cable rub and catch on things are gone.
I only wish it had a much higher sampling rate, so as to avoid what seems to be phasing effects that cause the opposite movement of what is done, when moved quickly and suddenly. It anoys me in Starcraft games sometimes!
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And didn't like it at all! The problem is the weight of the hand rests on top of the mouse. In order to move it even on a good mousepad, you need to apply a lot of force. This makes precision clicking much harder to do than with the usual wrist-action mouse. Several other people at the same company tried it too and didn't like it.
:P
And that's so old tech too, it was available last year.
The best mouse wristwise that I've found is the tiny small model from Logitech.
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
I've used on of those made by 3M. a few users at our site are using them as we speak. As I couldnt stand it and have to bring my own mouse with me everytime I go to work on one of those system. I'm not sure how many ppl will like it.. Very hard to get used it.. and took some of our users a very long time. but one you go there.. you'll never beable to go back.. kinda like Mico$oft if you ask me.
Can't see how that's gonna work for gaming, moving your whole arm is much less accurate and slower than just twitching your wrist and fingers alittle, of course I'm talking about Q3 and CS, where speed and accuracy is everything... well I actually wouldn't recomend that thing for any games I can think of atm, if they make a vibrating version you can allways give it to your gf when you go away for the weekend though :P
What's all the fuss about? Turkeys? They're just fat bastard chickens!
HardwareZone did a review of this a couple of days ago. They weren't too happy about it.
Their study states "There was, however, a slight difference in movement times with the new design about 16 hundredths of a second slower. "
160 ms! Slight?
I just tested my stimulus-response time (visual cue until key press). In ten trials, my average reaction time was 261 ms. That 160 ms represents a very dramatic slowdown.
I doubt my r/t is very special. I imagine a die-hard gamer would be faster than me, either through training or innate ability.
If this mouse-stick really makes the user 160ms slower, it will be way too slow for many types of games, regardless of any ergonomic benefits it may have.
You can never equivocate too much.
Right now I'm using the nipple thing on my laptop, and really the only way of accessing the arrow keys at the same time is to use the left hand for the nipple.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Why buy this when there's a hacking solution to the problem? I thought of this years ago.
Case in point: I was suffering from a case of RSI some years ago (before I figured out how the height of my chair and mousepad affected my wrists). My wrists were killing me every time I reached for the mouse.
The solution? A 50-line program written in C that (in Windows, sorry - my OS of choice at the time) polled my joystick, and translated its commands to the mouse pointer. Button 1 became 'click'. Button 2 became the left mouse button, and I linked Button 3 to 'double click'. Took me about an hour to whip up the program, and then I used it for about a month before my injury subsided and I was able to buy a better chair and adjust my desk height properly. It worked well, and it didn't cost me anything other than a smidge of time.
It made everything feel like a video game, though, so that was a bit weird. I've probably still got the program in my archives, but I'm at work and the file's at home somewhere.
You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
Anyone else remember the Windows 3.1 software that let you use a joystick as a mouse?
How is this different?
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You can get it at microwarehouse...
So, yes, it is shipping now... contrary to popular belief...
BlackNova Traders
From my own experience, I found I had shoulder trouble when I was in a really bad ergonomic situation (not directly under my control) and just about everything was wrong. If your forearm is pointing outward when using your mouse, that's bad. If your forearm is tilted upward, that's also bad. Inward and downward (or at least more or less level) is better, I think, although consult an ergonomic guide for expert advice. An armrest that you can actually use, i.e. that's the right height and fit, should also help, since I think part of the problem is simply supporting the weight of your arm.
I have tried it, its just a new flavor in the same old tired mouse design.
I have a few different mice, If I use one for a long time I start getting sick of it. Maybe the shape isn't quite right? but its this way with all my mice plain and ergo!
No 2 people's hands are the same right? Your hand is always moving, when you lock it into a certain position it will always feel uncomfortable after a while.
I am wondering, is there an adjustable mouse out there. One that you can move and tweek to your liking. I think this would be a really interesting device.
2 cents are better than no sense.
Combine with a pair of one-handed keyboards like the BAT and you are well on your way to increased productivity with vastly lower stress on your wrists and arms.
Burris
This is news? The Anir Vertical Mouse has been around for years.
I own both both a Mac version and a PC version and they now have a USB version available. They come in 3 sizes for both left and right-handed people.
My experience has been that it Really does help with carpal tunnel problems. However it requires that your desk be at the proper height - otherwise you end up trasferring some of the strain to your shoulder.
My experience is that it is a bit more difficult to use on the PC than the Mac due to the PC's lack of speed sensitivity. Likewise, the vertical mouse is not the greatest for Gaming.
Nevertheless, its a great alternative to living with a painful disability.
That mouse looks painful to use...
;) Still, I think I might be better off than many touch typers who are often straining their fingers to reach the keys. I know I can type for several hours at a time with no noticeable discomfort. Mousing is what causes me the most trouble, and it's usually pretty minor and comes after many hours of computer use.
I play a lot of games in my spare time. My favorites are NASCAR Heat and various FPS mods. Being poor, I have no steering wheel, so I use a Sidewider Precision Pro for Heat, and I use my trusty Kensington optical mouse for FPS. I can tell you that, after playing Heat for two hours with a Sidewinder, my hand, wrist, and arm hurt a *hell* of a lot worse than they do after two hours of Quake or UT. Most of the strain comes from keeping my arm elevated instead of being able to rest my wrist on the desk and my elbow on the arm of my chair.
I know I'll develop carpal tunnel syndrome eventually, but I'll live with it. I live, work, and breate computers and don't plan to give it up anytime soon, so I guess it's a small price to pay for all the enjoyment I get out of them.
I do have one possible advantage over most other users I know...my odd method of typing. I never learned to touch type. I type with my hands elevated and first two finger joints held vertically, and use a lot more arm and wrist motion while typing than touch typers do. I primarily use my middle fingers to hit keys, though sometimes I use my left index finger when it is convinient. I do type without looking at the keyboard and can average 40-50 WPM, BTW...not bad for just using three fingers.
DennyK
--Bud
We solved the right handed / left handed problem at home by using a PS2 mouse and a USB mouse. If you are a southpaw, find a nice mouse that isn't flavored either way and place it on the left. It's funny when we get visitors. They see two mice and think it adds special functions, especialy if we feed them a line about moving with one mouse and shooting with the other in quake.
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