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The Upcoming Corel-Based Distro From Xandros
mutantcamel writes: "Michael A. Bego, the CEO of Xandros Corporation has given an interview
with Consulting Times. Xandros recently signed a license agreement with Corel that gave them access to Corel Linux." Bego holds off on a lot of specifics here, but says that what Xandros inherits from Corel includes a lot of improvements that never made it to Corel's since-abandoned boxed desktop distributions, and since it's Debian-based, will "automatically" run on several platforms.
it hurts and stuff.
I'm pretty sure Corel released all of the software that they wrote under the GPL. What is there to license?
Like Windows 98 Automatically Installs perfectly.
.... (j/k)
Sounds a bit optomistic... Corel's box went down and now we'll just wrap it up with a Debian distrib and make it all work.
Oh, and, btw.... it's only $19.99
[root@osama]# rm /bin/laden
I like Anti-Aliasing with my fonts.
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To paraphrase OPP...
OK, many of you have probably noticed a lot of ascii art flooding this board lately. You're no doubt wondering why CmdrTaco's much encountered "lameness filters" are ineffective against it. To answer that question, I'm going to take you on a Perl journey, deep into slashcode. Think of it as being a bit like "Heart of Darkness", or if you're a typical slashdot pleb, "Apocalypse Now!"
The first files we'll be looking at are the infamous "bitchslap" and "modslap". I think these are a pretty decent introduction to how Rob's mind works when he's coding angry: Here's bitchslap [slashcode.com]. Scroll down to the section labelled "main program logic". BTW. "main program logic" is a ridiculously grandiloquent phrase for what we are seeing here.
Note how draconian this is. I like to think of this code as a memorial to slashdot-terminal, it's first victim. You can see how Malda deliberately broke his "self-regulating" moderation system, to give the admins of slashdot dictatorial powers. This code allows any admin using it to drop a user's default threshold to -1 instantly, and drop his karma down to a level from which it is unlikely to recover. I've heard that this script has been used on slashdot in a modified form, with the -defaultpoints set to less than -1, completely eliminating a user's post from normal viewing, unless people edit their query string manually.
On to modslap [slashcode.com]. Scroll down to "main program logic" again.
OK, what you're seeing here is Taco's method of restricting the flow of crack to moderators, to keep them nice and jumpy. If you don't mod the way he likes, you're moderating days are over, and your karma plummets to bitchslap levels. An ugly tool.
To recap, the man we are dealing with here is obviously an anti-democratic tyrant. Censorship is his weapon, and he is vigilantly watching his censors, to ensure that no freedom is allowed to enter his domain. I believe he also lives in a hut with a man driven crazy by his proximity. The hut is surrounded by skulls on poles, but the skulls face inward. Remember that.
We're nearing the locus of my investigation now. You've heard the legends, now gaze into the face of comments.pl's so-called "troll detection code!"
comments.pl [slashcode.com]: Scroll down to the section under "here begins the troll detection code".
You may be wondering why it's such an ungodly piece of crap. I feel that we are seeing evidence of an ingrained unwillingness to think before coding.
The first few tests are fairly simple, based on regexps and length. They're pretty laughable, from an information theory perspective. If you don't believe me, the parent of this post should supply adequate evidence of what I'm talking about. Language is a complex thing, and a few simple tests are insufficient to distinguish English from ascii art, especially when the ascii artists are willing to take extreme measures to see their work posted. Regular posters do not have the patience for such chicanery.
The final test is my favourite, though. It begins under the comment ending with this charming sentence: "These ratios are _very_ conservative a comment has to be absolute shit to trip this off". An interesting claim. Considering the number of posts I've tripped this filter on, without doing anything out of the ordinary, I'd say "conservative" means the same thing to Taco as it means to George W. Bush, nb. "nazi". What we are talking about here, is the postercomment compression test. (The horror! The horror!) "postercomment" is just the name of the field your comments are sent in, by the way. It isn't cool top secret slashspeak. It's just a variable name.
What this does is, it actually compresses you're comment using zlib, then checks the change in size to decide if you are a troll or not! Furthermore, the code comments indicate that if you trip this test, slashcode thinks you are a "luser". Code like this makes it pretty clear that it takes one to know one, Rob!
As someone who as actually seen Rob Malda use the phrase "it won't scale" to dismiss questions about why parts of the moderation system weren't done in a more equitable fshion, I'd like to take this opportunity to laugh until I give myself a hernia.
Anyone who has studied information theory knows that the redundancy of english is estimated at about 50%. This value is fairly key in what we are seeing here, it determines a fair estimate of how effective compression of english text can be before we start to lose information. Taco's estimates were based, in his words, on "...testing out several paragraphs of text...". Doesn't sound like a particularly large sample group. What's more, it's indicative of poor software engineering practice. As is the recent bout of outages.
A few final criticisms. Firstly, there are far better, less memory intensive, and above all, less stupid methods of performing textual analysis than checking it's compression ratio. If Taco had any idea about computer science, he might have investigated a few before making a fool of himself in public like this. It's pretty clear that he's getting more and more frustrated with the situation on slashdot, and doesn't realise that if he ruled with an even hand, rather than a bitchslapping script and an army of trained thought police, the problems would not be so grave.
Secondly, I thought of a much more effective method of eliminating asci art posts, and it will never cause problems for genuine posters. What's more, it's extremely compact and doesn't even require regexps. I won't reveal it here, as I am not willing to assist in a reign of terror that I find to be reprehensible.
As further evidence of the lengths Malda and Co. may be willing to go to, you can find a commented out section that enables the deletion of posts and their descendant threads. We have no reason to believe that this will not be employed on slashdot.
Editorial notes: I don't use Perl and this is really the first time I've examined it closely. It's pretty much convinced me that I'm not missing much. I use real languages such as C and C++ and occasionaly asm to do most of my work, and I, along with 95% of the enterprise world, find Java to be the best solution for web programming. For most scripting tasks, shell script suffices. For more complicated scripting tasks, Python provides a more sensibly designed scripting environment. Additionally, as if to provide further evidence of Malda's incompetence as a programmer, I've hit the junk character post every single time I've previewed this comment, and am now forced to resort to edit it. Regretfully, I have been forced to replace the Perl fragments I was using with hyperlinks. Very unsatisfactory.
The whole idea is to kill as many Arabs as you can. Got it?
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When I ran Corel Linux.... it wasn't necessarily a bad distro. Sure It has some security problems right off the bat from its original release... but what I liked most was that if you did actually pay for it.. and payed $80 you got a nice piece of swag in the form of a penguin that said corel on it. It was about 3" tall and made out of that stuff you squeez when you are stressed. Hope this new distro will do something similar ;)
I am Jack's HTTP Server
The whole idea is to suck as many cocks as you can. Got it?
Slow Down Cocksucking Cowboy!
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http://www.markvd.net/
This site is awesome.
The installation and text-based maintanance of Debian has always kept some of my friends away from it. Progeny and other companies seem to be stepping up to the plate to make Debian a more user-friendly distro and I hope this one continues what Corel started.
Why didn't they just download it like the rest of us? Are they trying to trick us into paying for it when they release it?
Slow Down CowboyNeal!
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I'm really looking forward to this. Way back when, we evaluated various linux distros as desktop replacements for our sales staff. Corel Linux was way ahead of the curve (about 18 months ago) in terms of out of the box usability for the usual office drone. I had high hopes for version 2, but ...
you guys suck! I bet you're too busy suckin cock to actually do any moderation! You haven't moderated a single post in this thread!
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There are two ways of disliking art. One is to dislike it. The other is to like it rationally. -- Oscar Wilde
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Corel, the Canadian superpower in the Imaging and Paint software long ago, has yet to put out anything that resembled making money. It has been nothing but a blight on the computer community since those great days of yore. Anything that they tried to take from the computer world in general, and the GPL et al. specifically, has become an abomination on computing and economics alike.
Does anyone remember Mr. Cowpland's promise of a platform written in Java for Java by Java? Or the utter failure of Corel Linux (mostly due to its concentration on marketability)? Gentlemen, I do believe that anything that the Corel corporation has touched has turned to festering putresence, and even though I believe that Linux's sustainability means the desktop of the every-day user, I don't think that Linux is ready for the world. I simply do not think that an everyday user or (shudder) management is ready for the power it wields, and a server based on an essentially userless installation is ready for the Internet.
Oh wait, what about NT?
Angry White Guy
You think that I'm crazy, you should see this guy!
if you resist, we will rape you
There are two ways of sucking cock. One is to suck it. The other is to suck it rationally.
+1 Insightful
windows users don't think about their operating system.
linux users do.
most linux users have a windows box or access to one when they want to do something with the great mass of consumers which use the internet, like playing video games, watching movies or multimedia, etc.
linux users use the linux box for many of the un-sexy things like operating a database or serving web pages, something which your average windows user, who is looking for Minesweeper or a DVD player, would consider "nothing to do."
It will be interesting to see a linux system meant to appeal to the Windows user. Perhaps it will be a bargain basement version of what Windows already provides, without the powerful, world-changing tools that make Linux already useful in its own niche.
I remember all the knockoff Gameboys that come out of import shops and Dollar stores after they failed in the mainstream consumer market, and I hope these will serve as a word of warning to Xandros.
Goat sex free since 2001
Sung to the tune of the Village People song "Macho Man". Italicized parentetical statements should be spoken in between sung parts of the chorus. "Goatse" should be pronounced "goatsay" or "goatseh". Ready? Here we go.
Ev'ryone you know has seen that goatse-goatse man,
Stretchin' out his anus as wide as he can!
Prolapsin' that rectum, go man go!
Showin the whole world his giant butt hole!
Ev'rybody wants to meet the goatse-goatse man,
He's been grossin' out web surfers from Maine to Pakistan!
You can see his picture on goatse dot c-x,
But who can say they've met him in the flesh?
Hey, Hey, Hey-Hey-Hey-Hey!
Goatse-goatse man!)
(Doesn't that hurt?)
I want to meet the goatse man!
Goatse-goatse man!
(What's the biggest object you ever fit in there?)
Where are you goatse man?!?!
(four-to-the-three-to-the-two-to-the-one-and...
Goatse-goatse man!
(Can I have your autograph?)
I want to meet the goatse man!
Goatse-goatse man!
(So, what are some of your other hobbies?)
WHERE ARE YOU GOATSE MAN?!?!
Lyrics are freely distributable under the GPL, the Goatse Public License.
Corel Linux when it first came out was great in that it straight off worked with windows networking, was easy to use for someone who's never touched linux, and the install went smoothly and perfectly. Also, i've just recently switched to debian, from slack, and apt-get is just amazing. My mom last week told me she wanted to install linux, and wanted to know the easiest way. I was forced to reccommend Mandrake, but I didn't feel good about it. Right now, there is no good, consumer-oriented linux distro, and this could be what we need. Of course, someone huge (hp/compaq anyone?) putting a lot of money into getting linux systems on the shelf in every Best Buy, and commercials in prime-time TV, would be a great thing too. And more consultants talking *small* businesses into using linux for their networks. I have a lot more ideas floating through my head, but since none of it's going to happen, i'll quit ranting now...
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$ - $$$ MOD DOWN PARENT POST TO OBLIVION
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I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
My first reaction is, "why would anybody care?" There are a lot of Linx distributions out there, so we're hardly hurting for choice at the moment. Why would we need another one?
But, reading the intereview, where they say they intend to contribute back to the community, I saw why I should care. Perhaps, just perhaps these folks will appeal to somebody that no current Linux distro does. If they succeed, and they're another company employing Linux hackers to hack Linux, then that's a good thing.
And, unlike Red Hat, VA, and a number of others, since they're based in Canada their business won't be outlawed after the US Government finishes passing its defense-of-copyright laws.
-Rob
The interesting thing is that their business model is practically identical to the standard distribution company (Mandrake, Red Hat especially before the acquisitions, maybe Ximian, probably SuSE): sell physical boxes, sell professional services, and sell access to an apt-get server (or whatever we want to call it).
There is also the issue of the proprietary value-adds - I don't personally think this is bad, but it can be tricky to make sure that they actually end up being (and staying) better than the open source stuff (e.g. Metrolink vs. XFree86, Samba versus forgotton packages the names of which I don't even remember, &c).
Professional services is the hardest for a distribution company - to a certain extent, doing it requires a whole different mindset. And there is also the question of identifying customers who find it worth the money - many companies who have done Linux have, or end up acquiring, in-house Linux expertise.
Anyway, maybe with the shakeout of Caldera and Linuxcare and so on, there is some room for these guys. I certainly hope so - there are plenty of corporate markets which Linux companies haven't really made much progress in, so there is no shortage of things to accomplish.
To steal it's oil, and claim oneself some fucking "Super-power". You got something to say? See you in the battlefield... gays.
LINUS SUCKS COCKS!
oh and so does alan cox
and richard stallman
Bruce, I'm sure it's you, but I am not sure that the level of venom in your original post is seemly for a person in your position. You could have just presented what you perceive as the facts and let people draw their own conclusions.
Although I verbaly agreed to advise them more than a year ago, nothing exists on paper...
A verbal agreement is no less an agreement than a paper agreement. Paper and signatures are simply evidence of an agreement, not the agreement itself. That was one of the points you made, another had to do with term sheets. Are you sure that the term sheets had no provision for adverse market conditions? It is typical that they do. Finally, you suggested that Xandro's investor, LGP, entered into negotiations with Genome simply to discover their business plan. I find that something of a stretch, really I do.
I am completely impartial in this, though I admit I want to believe in Xandros. My impression of their intent is that they want to put out a "Corel but done right" distribution, correcting Corel's mistake where some parts of the distribution were closed source. Personally , I believe there is room for a Debian-based KDE-oriented commercially supported distribution and I am relieved to see someone stepping in to fill the market position so recently vacated by Storm Linux. I do not believe that Xandros simply imitating of Genome.
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
Sorry Xanex, you're coming in with too little, too late. There are plenty of other easy to install, easy to use distros. Corel would have had something if they could have gotten their full suite of tools ported and stable and bundled the whole thing for under $100.
Instead they gave us a half-baked distro and a half finished office suite. So long, Corel. Remember that Bill likes his shoes really shiny.
Sound great!
I wish you Xandros people all the best and are looking forward to your distribution..
Stig Nielsen
I can't believe it... not _yet another_ debian based distribution! Look around! The only debian based distribution that has even the faintest hope of turning a profit is Progeny. Even then, the only reason is the quality of developers involved. Others who have tried and failed should serve as enough of a warning to newcomers. The only reason I can possibly see for this company to undertake this endeavor is to try to squeeze money out of underinformed venture capitalists to pay their own 6 figure salaries.
A verbal agreement is not worth the paper its written on ;P
Corel is good. It uses Debian. You can use apt-get which is really fine. Highly recommended.
I hope the do well with it... but I have the feeling they won't. Out of any linux distribution I've tried, the Corel distro was by FAR the easiest. I mean even Windows isn't this easy to install! I think the Linux distribution market (at this point) has reached saturation. I mean even SuSE had to be bailed out. I just can't see where this distro is going to find a place.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Need I go into the difficulty of validating your identity via email?
Schoolman Thrumbart
Coordinator-in-Exile
People's Republic of Sealand
We have almost finished all the office apps, and fixed 90% of the problems the older distro had, plus have run an extensive beta test to ensure you get the best for your 580 bucks.
Sincerely, Mike Bouma (Xandros engineer)
I'm not sure what constitutes some of these relationships; I thought Gnucash had been cut loose, but maybe I'm wrong. Does anyone have information about these corporate sponsorships, or what Xandros's acquisition of Corel means for them?
Windows is a vast desert of "nothing to do" when you start off, compared to Debian's teeming, insane hive of fiddlygadgets.
Your concept that "windows users do not think about the OS" is correct- but this is true not because Windows offers so much more to do (it offers less than any Linux I know) but simply because it's the default.
That's all.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
Every programmer who works for this company is one less programmer working for Mandrake.
Community support given to this company is less support given to Mandrake and Redhat.
WE HAVE the two main distros, we dont NEED more choices, we need to enhance what we already have
spreading yourself thin and reinventing the wheel is why linux is behind windows.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
for consideration by linux users.
frankly, with Libranet,progeny, and debian itself,
Corel is late to the game.
they should have concentrated on poting wp
and wp office to linux and not doing their own
distro.
hard to care about corel now.
I bought the original Corel Linux based on its supposed ease on installation.
Well the installation went very well but Corel provided absolutlely no information or support on configuring the system.
After about three days of trying to get printer/sound/networking working I said fuck this and asked for a refund. They actually gave me one!
I'd try the new version if it really was complete and simple.
The subject says it all. Progeny is so lean now that a release > 1.0 is highly unlikely.
Don't get your hopes up for Progeny, you'll only get disappointed.
Maybe you don't understand that many Linux users find Debian based distros to have a stronger foundation when compared to Redhat based distros.
Is anybody else concerned to hear about these "improvements". If this version was so tremendous why did Corel abandon it? I think this really smells like vaporware.
Then buy the damn thing! College students and the un-under employed excluded here, but anyone out there working in IT land can certainly afford to spend a few dollars on their fave distro. I know some of us have the bandwidth to download all day and burn our own, but just how in the hell do you expect these companies to stay in business if everyone does that? Selling services? Give me a break, newbies do not use their "services", most of you don't need them, and most companies either do not need them or the distro makers are incapable of supporting them. Let's see, how many companies do you think Slackware can offer 24/7 support too? Just buy a release every once in a while, it will not kill you and it may help a company you love stay around for a while. Just do it now! I don't even care if you open the damn box, better yet donate the software to someone else. Maybe even a newbie. But whatever you do, do not under any circumstances bitch and moan when your distro is no more and you have never supported them.
A Linux company that apparently doesn't even run its own web site on Linux.
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.xand ros.net
The reason I find it possible is because the same page shows a reference to Linux Utilities (an application similar to Norton Utilities) as being one of the technologies that Xandros claims it will integrate into their new Linux distribution.
~Quid Pro Quo~
The Corel developers won 'Best New Software' in 2000 for their 2.0 release.
The 1999 winner was Linux.
The Corel developers are now at Xandros. Obviously a highly talented team.
Hunger is the best sauce.
I don't get it. Do you have the problem with LGP or Xandros?
Do you also have a problem with Linas and the Gnu-Cash project.
Should I throw away Gnome because they took LGP Money?
Or Linux for that matter?
Money is green.
Hunger is the best sauce.
test