Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

XOSL, an alternative to Lilo and Grub

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the booting-in-style dept.

WhyPanic writes "XOSL, the Extended Operating System Loader, is a free (as in beer and as in GPL), full featured, graphical boot loader that can work in conjunction with Lilo or separately to boot all varieties of Windows, Linux, and many other OS's." Nifty looking.

60 of 328 comments (clear)

  1. LILO amd Grub by jeeryg_flashaccess · · Score: 2, Informative

    Since I noticed it i'll mention it. The topic should be LILO and Grub. Not LILO amd Grub! Meh...

    --
    Life is like pants... fit in or you don't fit in.
  2. Ok, by MxTxL · · Score: 2
    Who needs a graphical boot loader?

    Then again, the 24 boot items and a few other features aren't bad.

    1. Re:Ok, by VFVTHUNTER · · Score: 2

      I agree.

      The best feature of Linux is its stability; considering my uptime is 134 days, I could care less about the boot process. I could care less about it on my laptop too. Were I running an OS that required rebooting every half hour, I would probably give a damn.

      Trivia question: how long can you keep a 32-bit Linux box up and running?

    2. Re:Ok, by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 2
      The best feature of Linux is its stability; considering my uptime is 134 days, I could care less about the boot process


      The first word that comes to mind when I see a system with a 134 day uptime is not "stability". The word that comes to mind is "insecure", from the patches you've had to skip to get that uptime.

    3. Re:Ok, by VFVTHUNTER · · Score: 2

      You're quite correct. This box is behind my 133MHz/32MB RAM POS NetBSD firewall. There's no sendmail, no bind, no NFS etc. The only manner in which it touches the internet is thru galeon and mutt.

      Even if it were a Linux direct-net box, the only thing I think I would have needed to patch here lately is that pre-2.4.12 symlink bug. But since I'm the only user on this box, its sorta moot. Other than that, I would have just NOHUP'ed the patched TCPIP stuffs.

      For the record, I could care less about uptime, I was just making the point that bootloaders are kind of moot for me since the only time this box goes thru its POST is when the power goes out. However, were I doing kernel dev, or multibooting, this thing is quite cool.

      And I do agree with the other posters' remark that maybe I do need it since I boot so infrequently, but my self-compiled kernel is the only one in my lilo.conf. If that gets corrupted, its back to the install CD's...

    4. Re:Ok, by VFVTHUNTER · · Score: 2

      This is the funniest post I've seen in a while. If you're a programmer, kudos to you for following Knuth's advice and perfecting your grammar.

      PS - It's HARD to care so much!

  3. Windows Boot Laoder by JohnHegarty · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why is Windows the only operating system that comes without any type of multiple boot loaded. All the other seem to have one. Install 95/98/ME and it just sets its self as the only os , and thats the end of that.

    --
    Cruise TT
    1. Re:Windows Boot Laoder by BradleyUffner · · Score: 2

      Windows NT, 2000, and XP have multiboot loaders. windows 95,98 and ME were meant for people with home systems before multi-booting was more common.

  4. Some crossed wires here by fobbman · · Score: 4, Funny

    This isn't a new development, so did Slashdot and Freshmeat somehow swap queues? Should I be checking Freshmeat for Katz submissions?

  5. But you still need Lilo... by sultanoslack · · Score: 3, Informative

    XOSL won't load your kernel. You still need a Linux boot loader to do that. So, no, XOSL isn't an alternative to Lilo and Grub. I tried it a long time ago hoping to oust Lilo.

    Thier website still says:
    XOSL is known to support
    [...]
    Linux (with Lilo)

    1. Re:But you still need Lilo... by krmt · · Score: 2

      Yeah, I saw this too. It's too bad, but maybe one day they'll actually put lilo's functionality in to this. Lilo has definitely gotten better as of late, but it's one of those continual-thorn-in-the-sides of the whole linux experience. This would definitely help matters, especially with newbies.

      --

      "I may not have morals, but I have standards."

    2. Re:But you still need Lilo... by rkent · · Score: 2

      yes, but at least this works around the worst part of LILO on the MBR: the stupid cylinder limit. At least that's my biggest complaint. Of course, since I dual-boot NT, I can use the NT loader with no problems. But this MIGHT be a nice way to avoid the need to reboot into NT to properly place the bootsect.lnx, at least...

    3. Re:But you still need Lilo... by CyberKnet · · Score: 2

      great way to fubar your linux system with a bad kernel. Always leave two options available in lilo: Current and Test. Install a new (unknown) kernel to test, and leave your current (known good) kernel in Current. When you are satisfied that the new kernel is good, then move it to Current and Test.

      --
      Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius
  6. Requirements by scott1853 · · Score: 2

    As long as it doesn't REQUIRE a Linux partition, I'd be happy to use it.

    1. Re:Requirements by scott1853 · · Score: 2

      Not sure that I'd want a boot loaded requiring ANY partition. I'd want something that would fit in the first track of the HD, which is where bootloaders should go.
      Ideally, the bootloader itself should still work even if I decide to remove all my partitions.

  7. Suspicious Title by Cylix · · Score: 2, Funny

    Although I'm certain it should read 'and' and not 'amd', it brings up certain other questions.

    I'm wondering Rob's true intentions. I believe he might be trying to send subliminal messages to buy AMD chips.

    Rather quite SLACKWARE mischievious LINUX if you ask me.

    --
    "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
  8. Appears to need Lilo by SiliconJesus · · Score: 4, Interesting
    According to the page...
    XOSL is known to support
    • BeOS
    • MS-DOS
    • FreeDOS
    • Linux (with Lilo)
    • Solaris
    • VxWorks 5.x
    • Windows 95/98/Me
    • Windows NT/2000
    • ...and others...
    I read that as meaning it just boots up lilo, it still needs it to run Linux. Presumably, you'd install lilo on the partition, instead of the MBR.
    --
    Clinton made me a Republican. Bush made me a Libertarian. Trump is making me question reality.
    1. Re:Appears to need Lilo by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 2

      Yes, XOSL is not a LILO replacement. All it does to boot an OS is call that particular OS's bootloader (which must be installed on the OS's partition), which then does all the hard work itself. It's a nice way to select your OS if nothing else.

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    2. Re:Appears to need Lilo by zaius · · Score: 3, Informative
      Correct. It doesn't replace LILO, but sits above it in the booting hierarchy.

      I stumbled across it while trying to put NT (not my decision) onto a machine that had previously had Linux and LILO on it. For some reason, NT wouldn't install it's bootloader over LILO, and LILO wouldn't boot to NT, because I couldn't configure it because Linux was no longer on the machine. So I installed XOSL, and everything worked.

    3. Re:Appears to need Lilo by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 2

      It looks like a replacement for the commercial program "System Commander", which runs for around $75 last I checked.

      (Although, System Commander does other neat things like remapping drives, multiple DOS/Win installs, and boot support for some obscure OSes.)

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
  9. Please enlighten me by RelliK · · Score: 2

    Besides graphial boot screen, what else does it offer that LILO and Grub do not? (btw, it's already possible to have graphical boot screen even without it). And while we are on the subject, what does Grub have that LILO doesn't? What's the point of switching the boot loader?

    --
    ___
    If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
    1. Re:Please enlighten me by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 2

      GRUB understands filesystems. This means you can drop into a simple GRUB shell and poke around your partitions looking for a kernel to boot. It's really a lifesaver if you mess some stuff up by accident. You can also change kernel boot parameters and do other stuff all from within the bootloader before your OS is loaded, making it much nicer than LILO.

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    2. Re:Please enlighten me by redhog · · Score: 2

      In addition, GRUB supports several ways of booting an OS, in addition to loading a (possibly compressed) Linux kernel. This includes the OpenBoot specification, supported by some of *BSD, and some other (native) ways of booting several BSDs. And as you said, it understunds filesystems. You can even do a find to find a file with a particular name on any partition, from within its shell. It understunds ext2fs and fat, and some other. And it understunds netbooting using BOOTP and TFTP. And, on top of it all, it feels like the real boot monitor of a workstation! You can even install it from within itself (when booting from a floppy)!

      --
      --The knowledge that you are an idiot, is what distinguishes you from one.
  10. Re:Wishlist... by jandrese · · Score: 3, Informative
    Um, Xosl is configurable from the boot screen (IIRC, it's been a year since I used it last).
    Lets see what I can remember about this.
    1. It is very nice looking, and even has optional fading effets
    2. It is easy to install
    3. It comes with a partition manager (Ranish Partition Manager)
    4. It's quite configurable, you can do pretty much anything with it that you can do with any other first stage boot loader
    5. It requires a FAT parition on your hard drive. This is bad for people who want to dual boot between Linux/FreeBSD and Win2k, and doubly bad if your FAT partition gets corrupted.
    6. It tends to mark things "unavailable" if they disappear temporarily and never brings them back (you have to delete and recreate the partition). This was a big annoyance when I had a flaky SCSI card.
    7. Ranish Parition Manager is not exactly pretty or easy to use
    8. It's not so good for systems with fixed frequncy monitors, fortunatly this isn't a big deal anymore, but I used to have a 1280x1024 ONLY monitor attached to my system (not even a text mode) and my video card's best VESA mode was 800x600.
    9. Despite what the docs say, you pretty much need a mouse to use it. I was never able to get the keyboard shortcuts working correctly for the configuration screens.

    That's pretty much all I remember about it... I hope that gives you and idea of what Xosl is like.
    --

    I read the internet for the articles.
  11. Yes, it needs LILO by C0vardeAn0nim0 · · Score: 3, Informative

    from their FAQ:

    "Installing GNU/Linux

    If you're installing Linux, install LILO in the Linux partition's boot sector (superblock). You can safely ignore the warning that says you won't be able to boot Linux. XOSL can do the job."

    this mean the hassle of running lilo everytime you recompile the kernel still exists with XOSL.

    I rather use grub. don't need to rerun it every new kernel and it allows me to edit entries in the menu during boot...

    --
    What ? Me, worry ?
    1. Re:Yes, it needs LILO by C0vardeAn0nim0 · · Score: 2

      hmmmmmmm... probably yes. I'm not as familiar with it as I am with LILO (never hacked it's config files and never used it to dual boot with win... linux only machine :-) ), but I spose if you use it, you'll end up with two subsequent graphic menus to chose OS.

      If you use XOSL, I think LILO would a smarter choice to load linux kernel. Imagine a situation with 1 copy of windows and 2 linux distros in the same drive. you can use only one XOSL menu to chose OS.

      If you choose win, it'll boot the FAT partition and you'll be in billOS, but if you choose one of the linux distros, it'll load the LILO copy of that specific partition and load that distro.

      Why is better to have two LILOs in this sistuation ? easy. no typing to select the distro once "LILO boot:" shows up.

      --
      What ? Me, worry ?
  12. XOSL is nice, but not perfect by delay · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The perfect bootloader would be a combination of Grub and XOSL.

    I used XOSL in the past: while I think that it's nice, it's not perfect. What it lacks are some Unix/Linux-specific functions:

    It should be possible to browse a filesystem and to select a kernel on it to boot. It should be possible to pass "command line parameters" to the kernel (like mem=256...). It also would be cool, if XOSL had the option to set the textmode, one wants to boot an operating system in (like dos...). It would be necessary to have an Unix/Linux-based install to be attractive to Unix/Linux-people, booting from an dos-bootdisk just isn't sexy...

    All in all, XOSL is nice but not perfect. I'll stick to grub, until XOSL matures...

    --
    What do you do when you see an endangered animal eating an endangered plant?
  13. Different? by interiot · · Score: 2

    XOSL gets installed on its own partition, since it's so large. How is this different from installing a mini-linux distro on its own partition, and then doing some smart booting from there?

    1. Re:Different? by DickBreath · · Score: 3, Funny
      How is [XOSL on own partition] different from installing a mini-linux distro on its own partition, and then doing some smart booting from there?

      Because at the present time, XOSL is still limited by the fact that it doesn't yet have:
      • Device drivers for good 3D support on suitable hardware
      • Good themes with animation and translucency
      • Good screensavers
      • A good web browser
      • An office suite and productivity software
      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  14. Not new at all. by booch · · Score: 3, Informative

    There hasn't even been a new version released since December 2000. (Which happens to be when I looked at it and realized how cool it is.) Not only is this the wrong kind of news for Slashdot, it's not even news.

    --
    Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
  15. new product! by kypper · · Score: 2

    Lilo amd Grub...

    Wow... didn't know AMD made Grub...

    That company's just full of surprises!

  16. Smart Boot Manager. by SubtleNuance · · Score: 2

    Ive got the GPLed Smart Boot Manager in my bootsector, and LILO in my /boot. Its sub-30k and lives in the first sector of your disk.

    Check it out, small, easy, quick and allows you to boot from CDROM where you may not be able to normally.

    Thanks to "James Su (suzhe@gnuchina.org), Lonius (november@video.mdc.tsinghua.edu.cn) and Christopher Li (chrisl@gnuchina.org)"

  17. What about my usb mouse?!? by blonde+rser · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I was already to give XOSL a test spin when I noticed it doesn't support usb mouses. That's when it occured to me that I don't really want a boot loader that needs its own set up device drivers.

    1. Re:What about my usb mouse?!? by swillden · · Score: 2

      I was already to give XOSL a test spin when I noticed it doesn't support usb mouses. That's when it occured to me that I don't really want a boot loader that needs its own set up device drivers.

      I suggest you give it a spin. If your BIOS supports USB mouses and keyboards, I'm pretty sure XOSL won't see any difference between USB and traditional devices. That's the purpose of the USB mouse and keyboard settings in BIOSes; to tell the BIOS to present your input devices to the operating system as though they were ordinary.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  18. Flamebait.... Windows can boot multiple OSes fine by devphil · · Score: 5, Informative


    If there's only a single OS listed in boot.ini, then no boot menu is given. (What would be the point?) The bootloader just boots it without prompting.

    By default, Windows is the only one it lists. (No surprise there.) I copied my Linux bootsector to BOOTSECT.LNX, added another line to boot.ini, and then I had a choice at boot time: Windows 2000, or Linux. To do all this I followed the mini-HOWTO at linuxdoc.org; that HOWTO is now several years old, I believe. It was originally written for NT 4.something.

    Your article is complete uninformed flamebait.

    --
    You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
  19. Re:Can someone enlighten me? by Darth+RadaR · · Score: 2

    Why do we need yet another bootloader?

    [aol]
    Me too!
    [/aol]

    I'm also thinking, "Great. Now I have to figure out how to configure Yet Another Bootloader."

    One problem with Linux is that you often get 50 different development projects that all end up trying to do the same thing. Don't get me wrong, choice is good. but fer cryin' out loud do we *really* need 20 or so different boot-loaders? Why not just improve on something existing that is proven and people are more familiar with. It's not like you can't get the sources for Lilo.

    But, I digress....

    --
    /*drunk.. fix later*/
  20. Re:War stories? by Saint+Aardvark · · Score: 2

    I wish I'd known about this earlier. I've been trying to install Win98, Solaris, Linux and FreeBSD on one 40gb hard drive, following installation instructions I found in this month's SysAdmin magazine. The trouble came afterward: the Solaris partition was past cyl. 1023, so LILO couldn't boot it. And I couldn't figure out how to get Grub to boot a Solaris partition; the usual rootnoverify() and chainloader +1() didn't work. Sez here that XOSL supports Solaris; very nice. But after my sixth re-install of Debian and FreeBSD, I'm getting a little sick of it all...

    --
    Carousel is a lie!
  21. boot loader? by Lxy · · Score: 2

    I know there are some features that make certain bootloaders better for certain things. I use LILO, the latest build is pretty nice. GUI if you want it, no GUI if you don't. Grub has some decent features, most notibly being able to pass it kernel options at boot time. But what the heck does this offer? Mouse drivers? 1600x1200 resolution? Will it run on my Pentium or do I need to upgrade?

    I may be cynical, but this is just a little too weird....

    --

    There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
    :wq
  22. Looks a bit TOO nice for me. by archen · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'll stick with the Free BSD boot loader. It looks sufficiently evil enough so that people don't touch my computer.

  23. Re:Can someone enlighten me? by Prior+Restraint · · Score: 2

    Why not just improve on something existing that is proven and people are more familiar with. It's not like you can't get the sources for Lilo.

    It was my understanding that lilo is free, but not Free.

  24. Good idea, wrong implementaion? by Lxy · · Score: 2

    Why anyone would need a GUI driven bootloader is beyond me. They even recommend a Pentium 100, which seems a little hefty to BOOT AN OS.

    What they do have is an incredibly lightweight GUI with mouse support and a res of up to 1600x1200. They boast a 300K footprint, which is really impressive! Screw the bootloader idea, run this puppy on top of the linux kernel and you have an open source QNX type product. That to me seems like a much better implementation. Run this on a Palm with memory to spare! Lots of potential, why'd they waste it on a bootloader?

    --

    There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
    :wq
    1. Re:Good idea, wrong implementaion? by infiniti99 · · Score: 2

      Seriously. It looks like it could be a normal desktop windowing system. As it stands, you're right it looks like a total waste of effort for a bootloader, especially if they coded their own widgets.

      Why are there options like "show window contents while dragging" ? This looks like the coders were having way too much fun. Currently, my bootloader (LILO) shows no more than a single line of text. It wouldn't surprise me if in the near future XOSL gets a tetris game.

      Does anyone know where their widgets came from?

  25. Damnit. Port this to PPC. by torpor · · Score: 2

    What my tiBook needs is a good quality graphical bootloader so that I can choose OS9/OSX from *the same partition*.

    Yeah, I know I could do this if I put OS9/OSX each on their own separate partitions. But I don't wanna do that.

    Guess I'll quit bitching and go download the code, and see what its gonna take to make a PPC-friendly bootsector ...

    --
    ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
  26. Somebody needs beginners discrete math lessons by Ogerman · · Score: 2

    "free (as in beer and as in GPL)"

    A and (A and B) = (A and B)

    Therefore "free as in GPL" would suffice. (-:

  27. Re:nice, but... by Pedersen · · Score: 2
    was that too sarcastic?

    Considering that you can find adapters to convert USB to PS/2 all day long (and I'm using one here at work to convert my USB to PS/2 for NT4.0), I'd say yes, you were too sarcastic.

    --

    GPL made simple: What was my stuff is now our stuff. If you improve our stuff, please keep it our stuff.
  28. Huh? by pete-classic · · Score: 2

    From the FAQ/HOWTO
    also make sure, you install LILO to the boot sector of the linux partition. do NOT install it to the MBR. otherwise it will conflict with XOSL.

    From the story
    XOSL, an alternative to Lilo amd Grub

    Clearly this is a usage of the word "alternative" whith which I wasn't previously familiar.

    -Peter

  29. Re:Can someone enlighten me? by Pedersen · · Score: 2

    From the file COPYING, included in lilo 21.4.3:

    LILO program code, documentation and auxiliary programs are
    Copyright 1992-1998 Werner Almesberger.
    All rights reserved.

    Redistribution and use in source and binary forms of parts of or the
    whole original or derived work are permitted provided that the
    original work is properly attributed to the author. The name of the
    author may not be used to endorse or promote products derived from
    this software without specific prior written permission. This work
    is provided "as is" and without any express or implied warranties.

    Seems, to me, to be both free and Free.

    --

    GPL made simple: What was my stuff is now our stuff. If you improve our stuff, please keep it our stuff.
  30. Re:Flamebait.... Windows can boot multiple OSes fi by devphil · · Score: 2

    Uh, dude, I'm not replying to the main article. I'm replying to another comment. Care to check again?

    --
    You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
  31. other links since page is down by ejbst25 · · Score: 2

    here are some useful other links (screenshots, downloads, and such) since the page was down (and google cache didn't catch it right)

    http://www.onlythebestfreeware.com/program.asp?pro gram_id=76

    http://home.media-n.de/lug-nb/software/xosl.html (In German for those of you who can't read it...use babelfish)

  32. Been using XOSL forever and love it by Xeger · · Score: 2

    I've been using XOSL for 18 months now; XOSL itself is installed on a DR-DOS 7 partition which is also the first primary partition on my drive. The MBR of the drive contains XOSL. I quad-boot DOS, Windows 2000, Linux and BeOS and have never had any troubles doing so. XOSL really is an amazing tool. I'm glad to see it finally get recognition!

  33. oh good job /. by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 2

    the page is shut down because of us...won't open till midnight.

    --



    I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
  34. Dual boot Linux? by Zeinfeld · · Score: 2
    I used to muck arround setting machines up to dual boot. In the end the best solution I found was to buy removable disk racks so I could simply plug in a disk with the appropriate O/S - much easier than mucking about in loader hell.

    However these days I simply run Linux on one of the older machines and X-Window to it as needed from one of the Windows boxes. My TombRaider box makes a pretty good X-Terminal.

    When a PC has an 18 month life from being bleeding edge to obsolesence the boxes soon start to mount up.

    --
    Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
    Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
  35. Re:Works with USB --- WITH HARDWARE ADAPTOR by AtariDatacenter · · Score: 2

    I think what they're saying and NOT SAYING is that while a USB mouse will work as a PS/2 with an ADAPTOR, this is a hardware adaptor. The problem with mine is that it keeps falling out of the PS2 PLUG, so I've been forced to go USB.

  36. You missed one... by crisco · · Score: 2

    emacs

    --

    Bleh!

  37. Access Denied -- They should move hosting! by dido · · Score: 2

    "The site has exceeded maximum traffic for the day." Jeez, these people ought to get an account on SourceForge for their project. At least SourceForge can weather a semi-decent slashdotting!


    --
    Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
  38. GAG - An alternative to XOSL by chrysalis · · Score: 2

    There's a similar project that I'm using everywhere regardless of operating systems : GAG.
    You can download it from here .
    Gag has no bells and whistles like XOSL, but it does the same thing. You create a little bootable floppy with it, and it's then easy to configure and install anywhere.
    Gag supports multiple languages, it can swap disk ordering, it can protect bootup with a password, and I never had a single trouble with it.


    --
    {{.sig}}
  39. Sourceforge by rafa · · Score: 2
    The author is working an a new version. he's set up a page on sourceforge here. It doesnt' seem to have been updated since Jan 28th this year, but his plans look exciting.

    Personally I run xosl which then runs lilo. It's saved my bacon many times, really a very impressive tool.

    I'm planing on replacing my lilo with grub next time I reboot, but that coudl be a little while ;)

    --
    [Science] is one of the very few things that raises human life a little above farce and gives it the grace of tragedy.
  40. XOSL is more a bootmenu, not a bootloader by DABANSHEE · · Score: 2

    Its akin to BootMagic or BootCommander, rather than a bootloader like lilo, grub, the NT bootloader in W2K & W9X's bootmenu.

    & bloody good bootmenu at that - you can set up both your floppy & CDROM drives as selection entries in the bootmenu, so there's no need to change boot orders in the BIOS when you want to boot off the floppy or CDROM.

    Mind you its a bugger to setup.

  41. Re:Can someone enlighten me? by Prior+Restraint · · Score: 2

    My bad. I use grub, so I didn't have a copy of the license to look at. I always assumed the license was part of the reason the FSF preferred grub. I'll go stand in a corner now.

  42. Re:Not Needed by torpor · · Score: 2

    Doesn't work if you've got both OSX and OS9 on the same partition ...

    --
    ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --