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Virtual Reality With Unreal Tournament

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the well-kinda-anyway dept.

thegrommit writes: "It seems someone has been hacking the UT OpenGL driver to produce a relatively cheap VR environment. " It's really just another Cave thing, but it's still something to lust after. Imagine using a treadmill instead of pushing the up arrow. If only I was attached to my general pear-like shape.

60 of 165 comments (clear)

  1. Get in shape! by ARColeslaw · · Score: 5, Funny

    All of those FPS addicts would finally get a decent workout (not just their wrists) if they had to use a treadmill. Nice concept!

    --
    ...would you like coleslaw with that?
    1. Re:Get in shape! by Mr_Matt · · Score: 5, Funny

      Heh...and all those Tomb Raider addicts would get to see what it really takes to jump twice your body height while carrying a shotgun, two Uzis, a priceless and magic gold artifact, and two cantaloupes in your shirt. Does the word "oof" come to mind? :)

      --


      But what does my opinion matter, I just vote here. It's not like I have any money or anything.
    2. Re:Get in shape! by InnereNacht · · Score: 5, Funny

      "..finally get a decent workout (not just their wrists).."

      Nevermind, I'm not even going to say it.

    3. Re:Get in shape! by fobbman · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wouldn't be much different for me. I'm such a camper...

    4. Re:Get in shape! by abe+ferlman · · Score: 5, Funny

      Heh...and all those Tomb Raider addicts would get to see what it really takes to jump twice your body height while carrying a shotgun, two Uzis, a priceless and magic gold artifact, and two cantaloupes in your shirt. Does the word "oof" come to mind? :)

      Good one - very funny. I mean, where would she put canteloupes with those enormous breasts?

      :)

      --
      microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
    5. Re:Get in shape! by sharkey · · Score: 2

      Actually, the phrase "black eyes" comes to mind.

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
    6. Re:Get in shape! by achurch · · Score: 3, Funny

      Good one - very funny. I mean, where would she put canteloupes with those enormous breasts?

      I've never played Tomb Raider, but I'm not so sure I'd be all that thrilled about seeing cantaloupes with breasts...

      (:

  2. Waste of Time by Murdock037 · · Score: 5, Funny

    This isn't going to be particularly interesting until somebody figures out how to stick themselves into a game of Leisure Suit Larry...

    1. Re:Waste of Time by sharkey · · Score: 2

      Or Virtual Valerie.

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
  3. real FPShooter simulation by SirSlud · · Score: 5, Interesting

    VR can only take you so far.

    I am curious about extending 'laser tag' like games to include splash damage capabilities, wide beam fire .. basically, to facilitate all the features of modern FPS games into a laser tag like game, including a visor that projects a 3d world exacly the same as your physical 'arena'.

    I'd imagine your walls, floors, etc would have to be set up to instruct your base computer when and where they were hit, and then distribute damage if players are within a blast radius set for the 'weapon' being used by the shooter ... but can anyone divine whether this is technically feasible? Or has anyone attempted something like this?

    I know it sounds like laser tag deluxe, but I'm thinking deluxe deluxe deluxe ... laser tag taken to its utter extreme technological limits. I think that would be cool. Ideas? Comments? Anyone wanna work with me on just laying what this would require, technically, by catalog surfing or whathaveyou?

    --
    "Old man yells at systemd"
    1. Re:real FPShooter simulation by crawling_chaos · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I think you'd have to look at some of the stuff the U.S. Army's been working on for training. It's probably partially hype, but some infatrymen came out of the Gulf War claiming that the training was more difficult than actual combat. Of course, the training probably assumed competent leadership on both sides of the conflict.

      Anyway, my point (I did have a point when I started this post, I think) is that since most modern casualties are caused by "splash" damage from arty and whatnot, the Army's training program has probably worked out some of what you're after. The rest of it might come from some of the "smart" infantry weapons they've been working on, since they incorporate some VR and heads-up tech. I don't think any of that stuff is production grade yet. At any rate, it will be used to really kill people a long time before you and I can use it to play games.

      --
      You can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of beer a day, no matter how rich you are.
      -- Colonel Adolphus Busch
    2. Re:real FPShooter simulation by bhsx · · Score: 4, Interesting

      One of my first jobs, when I was sixteen, was working at the first lazer arena(in the midwest anyway), Lazer Zone. It was fun and the owner built all the equipment himself; they had reset machines that were really just electric magnets that created a 'circuit' of sorts when you placed the gun between them, generating a point for the other team. There were light sensors on the front of the gun, a small one on the battery pack (which you wore on your hip), and a ton of sensors on your little electro-yamaka... which had no functionallity besides being a good target. Of course, the die hard players had all the cheats/hacks just like today, only then it took some imagination.

      They would come in with pen-lights, electric tape to cover the sensors, and the best team (their name now escapes me, it was a long time ago... oh wait, Team Wild) even came in with speaker magnets to reset their guns(which went dead after you got shot, until you hit aforementioned reset booth) and a hacked electric key to restart the timed battery packs.

      Having it be a sole-proprietorship was great for him too, it gave him the ability to do whatever he wanted. It was all black-lit with flourescent tape around the edges of the 'shields' and ramps, with white lite projected as the 'laser.' By the time we closed the place down we had nerf footballs hacked into flash grenades and huge burst cannons on the ramps for each team. He had some really good ideas, and testing/implementing them was always fun. That was 1987 or so, but what the hell, the impetus to shoot people hasn't left me, count me in... :)

      --
      put the what in the where?
    3. Re:real FPShooter simulation by CaseyB · · Score: 2
      laser tag taken to its utter extreme technological limits

      Wouldn't that be when you just go buy a few real guns and head into the woods with your buddies?

      Anyone wanna work with me on just laying what this would require, technically, by catalog surfing or whathaveyou?

      For sure. All those hundreds of Laser Tag / Photon centers that went bankrupt, must have gone under because they didn't spend enough money to make 'em "utter extreme"! This is sure to be a success!

    4. Re:real FPShooter simulation by Pxtl · · Score: 2

      I'm afraid I haven't got a link on this, but a Japanese firm is working on an impressive system that is classified as "augmented reality". The VR goggles are transparent, but can display images over the real ones, so it could be used to display non-existant sprites and characters in the real world. With a good model of the environment it is being done in, they can cas shadows and use realistic lightsourcing. It currently requires some very expensive hardware, has some bad lag, and is ludicrously expensive, but the tech's there. On of the first demonstration was an FPS where they shot at little flying sharks.

      Now, imagine UT's weapon spread used with equipment like that in your favourite lasertag hangout.

      Why stop there? Think gameshows.

    5. Re:real FPShooter simulation by praedor · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Can't recall the link but do a search for "tetanizing laser". COOL! It shoots an electric bolt, of sorts, for hundreds of meters. Using twin UV laser beams to ionize an airpath between you and your target, a very high voltage (user-settable and with enough power behind it you could dial in anything from stun to kill) is sent down the ionized path.


      It is, in principle, even able to shoot around corners with appropriate mirrors properly situated.


      I want one.

      --
      In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
    6. Re:real FPShooter simulation by _ph1ux_ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have thought about this as well. When I was at Intel - I was thinking it would be great to have levels that are designed exactly as the physical environ that you are in - and that you view it from a visor so that you can see all the effect etc, plus have the walls have much more awesome detail.

      but there are a couple of problems:

      1. death. when you die in Qx - you return to a spawn spot, but if you get fragged in a meat-space-quake - you would still be standing in the same physical loc that you perished in. So you would have to have your visor turned off for 5 seconds or so so that you cant see the play field - and you would disappear from other peoples display so taht they knew that you were fragged - but this brings us to problem 2.

      2. COLLISION DETECTION! you would have to wear a helmet and football pads to play this - as you get fragged and disappear off the playfield for a short time, somebody might run into you - and hard. The other thing is that all players would be used to the fact that you can run through other players - and may forget that in this version you cannot. Maybe when a char gets fragged the system would place a false wall around them - that all other players would see - and try to avoid running into?

      3. terrain: sadly most geeks cant run for more than 10 feet at top speed - and let alone the jumping factor that was already mentioned.... so the levels might end up being rather bland. No falling into lava pits, hyper jumping between platforms suspended in nothing etc...

      4. you would want some sort of feedback - so maybe paintballs would be the best method - so that you *knew* when you got hit... but you would have to wear a vest that was able to sense each hit and deduct the damage from your overall health. which relates to 5.

      5. ammo - if you had to use paintball etc... then you would be required to physically reload the weapons. unless they were like 500 shots only - and when you ran out of ammo - you had to drop it off at an ammo station and pick up a new one - and there would be a gun-monkey behind the wall reloading the guns for everyone?

      anyway - it would still be fun no matter what - but until we have direct synaptic interfaces, we will have to address the challenges of getting meat space fragging on par with what Q3 can offer. Or maybe we just have to drop the whole comparison altogether - and accept that they are two separate stimuli.

    7. Re:real FPShooter simulation by oni · · Score: 2

      The grenades sound cool. The problem I always had with lasertag-like games was that, since the shots didn't actually hurt, there was too little incentive to avoid being hit. Paintball on the other hand >:-)

    8. Re:real FPShooter simulation by Saeger · · Score: 2, Informative
      Oh yeah? Well, an American company (Microvision) has been working on something even more impressive than standard LCD VR goggles: retinal displays.

      I expect these babies to be a must-have when they're ready for the mass market in a few years; especially since the #1 "augmented reality" app is likely to be naked 3D babes "on" your real bed. :)

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
    9. Re:real FPShooter simulation by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2
      It's probably partially hype, but some infatrymen came out of the Gulf War claiming that the training was more difficult than actual combat
      As the Roman Legions used to say, Training should be bloodless battles and battles should be bloody training. For example, the Roman 'practice sword' was made of wood, and weight twice as much as an actual Gladius. Thus, during combat, the actual sword seemed light as a feather....
      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    10. Re:real FPShooter simulation by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2
      Do you have any sources to back that up?
      Oh, for Christ's sake. I hope, for your own sake, that before you hit high school, or should you make it that far, college or university, that you learn how to do basic research. Typing 'roman practice sword' into Google returns, for example, this:
      Roman soldiers practiced sword combat with wooden swords that were twice as heavy as common ones. The reason for this was that when they started to carry the common swords they were much lighter and this helped them to act with greater precision and force at times of action.
      Further examination of the google results for the above mentioned search even reveal that the Romans had a word for it:
      RUDIS - A practice sword made of wood
      But, no, of course not. It's a VERY bad idea. After all, what did the Romans know? It's not like they conquered the world, or influenced the organization and training of pretty much any successful professional army since, right? Nope, nosirree Bob. Thanks for clearing that up. By the way, if you're looking for a wonderful primer on Roman life and military, not to mention history, but in a fun to read format, assuming you like to read, try The Dream of Eagles cycle (or, for you Americans, The Camulod Chronicles by Jack Whyte.
      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    11. Re:real FPShooter simulation by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2
      Personal homepage, of
      I'm an Assistant Professor of Classics at Bates College in Lewiston, Me. and teach in the Department of Classical and Romance Languages and the Program in Classical and Medieval Studies.
      Offhand, I tend to put a LOT of trust into the homepages of UNIVERSITY PROFESSORS as written on UNIVERSITY WEBSITES with what look to be COURSE NOTES on the subject. Fine, a little more research. Adding the word 'heavy' to the original google search returns this:
      Next in line, after the training for marching and fitness, came the training of handling weapons. For this they primarily used wickerwork shields and wooden swords. Both the shields and the swords were made to standards which made them twice as heavy as the original weapons. Evidently it was thought, that if a soldier could fight with these heavy dummy weapons, he would be twice as effective with the proper ones.
      Emphasis mine. But don't take my word for it. Go find a real, live professor, or somebody with a degree in military history.
      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    12. Re:real FPShooter simulation by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2

      Not really, when you think about it. The Roman Army was trained to do one of two things in battle; stab forwards, or adopt a shield formation. Their battle tactics didn't involve a whole lot of personal weapon finesse; thier advantage lay in their tactics. So all the Roman soldier needed to be able to do in battle was hold up his shield and wield his sword for a long time. Using a heavier sheild and sword in training was for stamina. Read the afore mentioned books by Jack Whyte, especially the first two or three, for an incredibly good grounding in Roman history. Fascinating stuff.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    13. Re:real FPShooter simulation by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2

      Oh. Well, in that case, let me give you a quick primer on Roman legion battle tactics. The legions were broken up into 'cohorts' which were supposed to hold, as I recall, 100 men a piece, broken up into 'maniples' of ten men each. The numbers changed at various times during Roman rule. This did, however, mean that a soldier always knew where he was supposed to be, and had buddies around. This, as we know now, greatly multiplies the battle ability of a human being. Each soldier carried the following weaponry: A gladius, or short sword; a scutum, or heavy rectangular curved sheield, about shins to chin tall, IIRC, and two pilum, or spears with soft iron heads. The idea was to throw the two pilum at the enemy in mass vollies. The pilums would stick in the enemy shields, then the head would bend, and the weight and shaft would trip up the enemy, hopefully causing them to drop their shields. The legion would then advance, line abreast, in three rows, veterans in the back, to spur on the recruits. Every legionairre would hold scutum in left hand, and gladius in right (left handed legionairres would have their left hands tied to their sides during training until they figured it out.) Thus each soldier would be protected by the sheild of the man to his right, and would protect the man to his left. They'd march forwards, bash the opponents with the shields, then stab out. They could, and did, also adopt some interesting formations with their sheilds, such as the anti-arrow formation, called the turtle, I think, that involved the first row hunkering down behind their scutums, and the second and third rows holding their shields overhead. There was also an anti-calvary/chariot formation that involved forming a circle, putting your sheilds out at angles, and sticking spears or swords out of the cracks. The legions, in their heyday, were also expected, each night on the march, to build a full blown fortress, complete with wooden pallisades and earthworks, before bedding down for the night. The only defeats of the Roman legions came when they ignored their own tactics. I'd go into more detail, but there are sources much better than myself. Oh, and if I recall correctly, bokken are made of bamboo. :-)

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  4. Sketchy VR by Angry+Black+Man · · Score: 5, Interesting

    While it is "Virtual Reality" none the less the design is very sketchy. To get CaveUT working right you have to do a LOT of tweaking. You will want to have the view rotations and axis in the exact right place. I've seen this in action and it really is not worth the trouble it took to get it working. To tell you the truth it is cool to look at for a little bit but not all that much more fun to play with.

    The mouse/keyboard is really not a good setup for such an immersive environment. Real VR can map the movement of the head to look around and control movement etc with some other mechanism (usually either a handheld device or foot controls). CaveUT doesn't have real time head tracking. To get a real VR experience out of UT would be cool but it would not be cheap and that would defeat the whole purpose of this project (keep in mind it is developed to be an interesting alternative to real virtual reality gaming). The VR games out there now are pretty lame and I admit it would be very cool if they got games like UT and Quake III working very well in VR.

    None the less, the OpenGL code is made for MS Windows only. However it would not be difficult for it to be recompiled for Linux and there is still no version of the driver for the Mac.

    --
    the byproduct of years of oppression by the white man
    1. Re:Sketchy VR by Elazro · · Score: 2, Informative
      Actually, we have a couple of versions of CAVE Quake running at NCSA, with full head and wand(gun) tracking. I believe that the QIII game engine is limited to scenery, but it is being worked on. QII is pretty fully functional.

      I'm sorry that I can't post the link - we are all getting ready for SuperComputing '01, and I don't want to /. his machine. If someone else posts the link, please be considerate - we are on a very tight schedule and I don't know the capacity of the machine serving the page.

      There is no treadmill (currently) hooked up, but since you are head tracked, dodging, stepping out behind corners, etc works. To get into some spaces you actually have to duck down. Jumping is a bit of a chore though. Really. :)

  5. i-Glasses!!! by dazedNconfuzed · · Score: 3, Informative
    Virtual I-O's "i-Glasses" have stereo vision and head tracking - why haven't any first-person games been tweaked to support this???

    --
    Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
    1. Re:i-Glasses!!! by drivers · · Score: 2

      Virtual I-O's "i-Glasses" have stereo vision and head tracking - why haven't any first-person games been tweaked to support this???

      You mean like these?

    2. Re:i-Glasses!!! by Pxtl · · Score: 2

      Rise of the Triad did. Nobody cared. Hence, noone bothers. I believe a little-known game called Locus uses head tracking for turret control in a sort of tank-soccer game.

    3. Re:i-Glasses!!! by rschwa · · Score: 2, Funny

      "You mean like these? "

      Woo. support for Quake II - 'TBA'

      I'm running right out to get a pair.

  6. this is why Open Source rules by Frothy+Walrus · · Score: 2, Informative

    To get the perspective correction right, we subverted the OpenGL code in the open-source portion of UT's C++ code.

    this is why Open Source is so cool. this doesn't hurt sales of Unreal Tournament in any way, and hackers can still build cool things with it. incidentally, they have open-sourced CaveUT.

    way to go, guys!

  7. Retrofitting workout equiptment for VR.... by Nijika · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How damn hard would it REALLY be to hook a cheap exercise bike to something like an optical mouse? I'd love to try it if I ever got the time. I always thought the only thing missing in 3D shooters was the stabbing lung and heart pain from running around at like 25MPH. I sorta miss it after playing sports in "real life".

    --
    Luck favors the prepared, darling.
    1. Re:Retrofitting workout equiptment for VR.... by Animats · · Score: 2
      There's an arcade game called "sky cycle" that works that way. Pedal faster to climb, slower to descend. I want something like that at the gym, tied into an aerial combat simulator.

      For a while, the gym I go to had NetPulse, which provided web browsing (with extra ads) on exercise machines. The machines were popular, but NetPulse went bankrupt.

  8. Cool, but not enough. by zarathustra93 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hmmmm, However cool I think this is, it just doesn't seem to me that VR will really realize its' potential until we can wire the system directly to the brain.

    I know, I can already hear a whole bunch of Neuromancer groans, but some goggles and a treadmill really doesn't cut it.

    Full on, full imersion reality will happen sooner or later. Anyone researching holodeck tech? :-)

    1. Re:Cool, but not enough. by praedor · · Score: 2

      No thanks to that sort of wiring. I would rather see LARGE warehouses partitioned off appropriately, with multiple floors and neutral covers on a lot of moveable and unmoveable objects and barriers. These would serve only for basic tactile effect tools. Players would wear googles through which they see projected into real space, and appropriate to the current layout of a given warehouse, a virtual scene and "augmented" other players and even computer-generated players.


      After a while, the interior would be remodeled and the game world modified to fit properly with the new layout and go on from there. Multiple HUGE rooms, multiple floors, real objects visually altered via the goggles, fully virtual objects and creatures that fit into the real/virtual world. You get full movement and a decent virtual world to play in.

      --
      In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
    2. Re:Cool, but not enough. by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      I cant remember where I saw it, but there's a guy on the web that designed a mod for Quake III to shock the player every time they got hit. (Zzzzap!)

      that's a closer step to immersion... actual pain in sync with the virtual pain.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:Cool, but not enough. by praedor · · Score: 2

      I would think that in the scheme I mentioned, you would have to forgoe the unreality of Quake, vis a vis, physics and physical capability, and accept actual physics and real personal physical capabilities.


      What you lose in the long jumps and long falls, etc, you gain by almost really being there in the flesh.


      I simply see this as virtually enhanced reality rather than classic VR. Using what is really there to build on to create the illusion of a place/world, subject to your actual physical capabilities.


      Good, cool fun plus exercise/physical activity. What more could you want?

      --
      In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
  9. VR experience by Man+of+E · · Score: 2, Interesting
    When I was in Korea some time ago, I ran across a multiplayer Unreal Tournament VR setup in an arcade. Basically, we would wear goggles and hold gun-shaped gamepads while standing in little pods. I played "Fractal" deathmatch against three other guys, and ended up incredibly dizzy five minutes later. The only VR feature that was really available was aiming by head-movements - jumping, running, firing, etc, were all controlled from the game pad.

    This cave system would be a cool improvement, since it would probably be much less dizzying than wearing goggles. Running and jumping might be fun as well, but your range and of movement in real life would be much restricted compared to the things that can be done with a gamepad. I'd like to see it though.

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une sig
    1. Re:VR experience by Pxtl · · Score: 2

      I find the head-tracking to be often the worst flaw - the gun should be used for aiming, the head for looking. Otherwise you keep thinking you have eye-beams. This is why the best VR FPS is still that dumb-old "Dactyl Terror" game where you fight a pteridactyl - you have a hand-held gun you aim with. No eye-beams.

  10. Errm slight problem with this as a UT environment by ZaneMcAuley · · Score: 2, Funny

    erm Physical objects ie., WALLS. :)

    Gotta hurt :)

    How about making it into a Hampster ball that u can run or walk in with the image superimposed on the walls of the ball.

    Fun without the fear of running into walls :)

    --
    ----- Whats wrong with this picture? http://www.revoh.org:1234/whatswrong
  11. We've got something sorta similar... by mikeage · · Score: 3, Interesting

    well... not quite. Using WireGL from stanford, we've had great success running UT on 12 computers at a resolution of 4096x2304 (16:9 widescreen), with a physical screen that's over 13 feet wide, and 7.5 feet tall (15+ feet diagonal), which is something like 100 square feet of violent blood and guts. Quite cool to see. No UT hacking required. The only bad part is that the game assumes you're just using a monitor, which takes up maybe 15-30 degrees of your view, so when it becomes a full 90 degree view, it gets a little overwhelming, but hey, that's half the fun. Anyone ever in the princeton plasma physics lab, stop in to the high res wall and check out quake3 or our VR walkthrough using UT.

    --
    -- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
  12. This is cool... by cr0sh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    But way out of reach for the average /.'er - these kinds of mods seem to be the only thing happening anymore in "homebrew" VR (and I use the term "homebrew" here in a very loose sense - there is nothing "home" nor "brew" about this mod, other than tweaking the UT software - everything else is closer to the high-end "commercial" realm of things).

    Which is very sad, considering today's "state-of-the-art"...

    The site I run (see my URL) has a ton of links and info on homebrew VR - but I receive little comment on it. I would love to hear about someone homebrewing a CAVE of their own using a few 100 inch TV projectors, a set of SEGA stereo glasses (or similar), and a PowerGlove. I know it can be done - but nobody is tackling it. If I could ever find the time, I would tackle it myself - but I already have too many projects on back burners (which is why the site hasn't been updated in so long).

    Hey, /.'ers! You see this stuff, drool over it, and want it for yourself? BUILD IT! PLEASE! It can be done, and cheaply - hell, a cheesy TORUS-style screen CAVE could be done using all off-the-shelf equipment for under $2500 (including projector!) - it could be done cheaper using homebrew projectors. Or, if your want an HMD, hack a StuntMaster or VFX-1 off Ebay, or build one yourself using cheap LCD TVs from Frys.

    For a long time, I have expected an "explosion" in homebrew VR - a lot of people "oohhh and ahhh" over it whenever demos like this are shown, but everyone seems to think it is impossible to play with anymore - that you have to have big $$$ to do anything - UNTRUE! REND386 and AVRIL were born out of this falacy, and used modest and cheap hardware of the time to do a whole heck of a bunch - PCVR (the magazine) was born, and for a while, it seemed like VR was the next "thing" - then the bottom seemed to fall out, the internet became "big" and VR has been nearly forgotten...

    Sad...

    --
    Reason is the Path to God - Anon
    1. Re:This is cool... by SethJohnson · · Score: 2


      cheap LCD TVs from Frys.

      I must give you credit for maintaining a site about vr technology. But when I read this line, I noticed some pretty ferocious clipping occuring within the VR world you live in and are trying to project. "cheap LCD TVs from Frys" is as unrealistic as you can possibly get.

      But I didn't want to just criticize. I do agree with you that it doesn't take a LOT to get some homebrew VR stuff going.

      As a matter of fact, I think one of these UTcave systems could be cobbled together from projectors like they always use at work to show powerpoint presentations. The tricky stuff is that trigonometry that the guy who built this was talking about on his page....
      --
      $5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
  13. Re:Errm slight problem with this as a UT environme by praedor · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That would be about the best option, though expensive. Full movement in all directions...but momentum would be a problem without expensive correction. You start moving (in your hamster ball) in one direction and then suddenly stop...but the ball's momentum carries on and you end up face-planted on the floor.


    More expense: use computer control and drive motors to work with you. You stop suddenly and the controller actively brakes the ball to match your movement.


    The ball would have to be reasonably large, I would think, to reduce what would otherwise be REALLY substantial spherical error and distortion.

    --
    In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
  14. Re:This is slick but... by geomcbay · · Score: 2

    It really really sucks. Don't go looking for it with high hopes.

    I played it at the GameWorks in Las Vegas a year ago. The moves you make don't really translate to moves on the screen except in a very generic way (high moves make the guy punch, low ones make him kick) to do special moves you need to kick and punch simultanously, which pretty much makes you look like a complete ass. The motion detection is extremely sketchy.

  15. Like Ender's Game? by maddogsparky · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I kinda like the idea of flash suits that freeze the appendage that has been hit. I don't know what could do that though...maybe some fluid between two membranes that solidifies in an electric field? Of course, motion feedback would be even better.

    --
    science is a religion
  16. VR = R? by Arkhan · · Score: 5, Funny

    So, not to be a smart-ass, but...

    "a visor that projects a 3d world exactly the same as your physical arena".

    If it's exactly the same as your physical arena, what are you gaining? And how do you know when it's broken?

  17. hey guys, by cosmo7 · · Score: 4, Funny

    haven't these people ever watched sci-fi movies? obviously, anyone who gets killed in a virtual reality game will be killed in real life. messing around with this stuff is suicide.

  18. Re:Wrong Map? by JeffreyJacobson · · Score: 2, Informative

    D'oh! Yes, it is LavaGiant. I just fixed the web page. Thanks!

  19. Re:Errm slight problem with this as a UT environme by esper · · Score: 2, Informative

    Low-mass ball floating in a viscous liquid. Low mass = low inertia, viscous liquid = significant drag. Cheap and it will stop the ball very quickly when you stop, plus I would expect it to feel more realistic to have to push off against the ground with every step instead of letting the ball spin freely.

    I'd argue for a smaller ball, to keep the mass down (as well as making it easier to find a place to put one). The spherical error and distortion could be corrected for fairly easily in the control software, provided that it has a way to track the location of your head, such as with a head-mounted transmitter or a sonar system.

  20. Another idea... by neema · · Score: 4, Funny

    Keep the treadmill moving fast, so if someone decides to stand still to spawn camp, they get thrown to the floor.

  21. This wouldn't be an issue... by cr0sh · · Score: 2

    If everyone playing was using a similar setup, we would have a virtual form of paintball, in a way. That, and if nobody would cheat (something I hate about online and network play - it seems like everyone and their brother uses cheats and bots, rather than relying on true skill - and to make things worse, those with true skill invariably get accused of cheating! Why not a little honesty, for f--k's sake?)...

    But FPS's are one thing - and even if it were done, it would be nice to see it done homebrew style, even if it didn't help, and perhaps hindered (due to the reasons you specify). I would just simply love to see a complete homebrew VR CAVE setup, or similar (heh, it would be fun to see a homebrew version of Dactyl Nightmare, using PCs, hacked powergloves, hacked stuntmasters, etc - man, what I would give to play that game again)...

    Anyhow, that is how I see it - there are a lot of applications for VR, and not much has been explored in the homebrew arena...

    --
    Reason is the Path to God - Anon
    1. Re:This wouldn't be an issue... by arkanes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While on the train this morning (:P) I realized that a REALLY great game for this sort of application would be Black & White - all the interaction is already done via a single "hand" and gestures anyway. Other 3-D, RTS games like Populous or Sacrifice would work, too, but they rely more on keyboard shortcuts.

  22. Fry's, and cheap LCD TV's by cr0sh · · Score: 2

    What I was meaning by cheap LCD TV's, are the portable ones, you know - like the small 1 and 2 inch Casio and Sony portables - it used to cost (back in the PCVR days) around $200.00 for one of these things - something that would then need to be taken apart, and good luck if you screwed up.

    Today, such TV's can be had for well under $100.00 - I saw at Fry's one day a whole end-cap full being sold for $80.00 each - much more cost effective.

    Now, personally, I don't really like Fry's - they screwed with me one too many times. But, to each his own - I mentioned them because a lot of /.'ers know about them, and have one close by. If it was me, I would look into portable TVs online or something.

    You are right about the geometry aspect of a CAVE - I wasn't trying to invalidate this individual's work or anything - I was just bemoaning the fact that people look at this, and think wow! I want that - but then never realize that it is possible to do something like it on the cheap - it is almost like the early 90's never happened (in regard to homebrew VR, REND386, and the like).

    --
    Reason is the Path to God - Anon
  23. PowerGloves by cr0sh · · Score: 3, Informative

    Agreed - PowerGloves are not what they are all cracked up to be, but they are easy to hack for a PC. Your comments and ideas are all valid (in fact, look around my site, and you will find an old "issue" of an online "zine" I wrote for VR called "Cheap VR" - issue 2 deals with building your own homemade glove and wireless tracker.

    The issue of tactile feedback is an appropriate issue, which is something I have considered. Using an object to represent what you are using or navigating with can be more "intuitive" and understandable. I suppose that is why there is a prevalance of "wand" type devices used in CAVES. One thing I have thought about playing with is this small "off-table" trackball, that you fit one finger through trigger style, and the other goes around the front - there is a trigger button, and two front buttons. The thumb controls the trackball - this would allow navigation as well as manipulation in a 3D environment. Coupled with a chorded keyboard, it could be a useful system.

    --
    Reason is the Path to God - Anon
  24. Bicycle Quake! by Mandelbrute · · Score: 2

    Ripping apart an old keyboard should do the job.

  25. Inexpensive Cave UT by InferiorFloater · · Score: 3, Funny

    "or, if you want a dirt cheap Cave setup, simply get 3 PCs, two LCD projectors, and an empty white corner"

    Come on, man! What kind of UT fanatic has these kind of resources? I mean, a blank corner?

    My low budget suggestion? Take your laptop to a real cave, play UT, and have your buddy throw a rock at your head every time you get fragged.

    --

    ---------
    Get back to me when my brain starts working.
  26. Re:Not lag - support, then resolution. by dbowden · · Score: 2
    Nah - I never had much complaint about the lag on my i-glasses!, my biggest complaint was the lack of support (actual 3D games to play), and the second was the resolution. Try playing your favorite game in 320x200 resolution for a while, and see how realistic it looks.

    Better yet, try and read anything on the screen at that resolution.

    They're still cool toys, but I haven't used them nearly as much as I thought I would.

    --
    Help find a cure for Gidget.
  27. Descent by dbowden · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I have a pair of the original i-glasses!, and the only game I ever enjoyed playing with them was Descent. The resolution (320x200) pretty much bites, and the head tracking is useless for aiming.

    It was always fun letting friends use the system though, because anyone who wears the glasses while playing a game inevitably ends up looking like Stevie Wonder, turning their heads around at wildly exaggerated angles, trying to control the game.

    I used to have to stop and reorient myself every so often or I'd end up with my head between my legs staring at the ground, or straining to try and turn my head around backwards, just to go straight ahead.

    --
    Help find a cure for Gidget.
  28. Re:Cave Quake with i-glasses!? by dbowden · · Score: 2

    Cool.

    Can I use Cave Quake 3 with my i-glasses!? I haven't found anything new to play on them in years.

    --
    Help find a cure for Gidget.
  29. Re:VR 1990's? by dazedNconfuzed · · Score: 2
    Agreed, bigtime. I've got i-Glasses with stereo vision & head tracking - and nothing to run on it.
    My guess is that the VR fad of the '90s ran so far ahead of the technology, most people looked at the state of the art and said "if I can't have full-body immersion (a la "Lawnmower Man" or "Disclosure") with infinite resolution and zero lag for $50, forget it."


    Another great technology bites the big one.

    --
    Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?