Public Comment Period In MS/DOJ Battle
PacketMaster writes: "Somthing that I didn't know, and perhaps many others didn't know is that now this settlement by the federal government and some of the states will go back before the judge and be opened for a 60 day commentary period by the public as required by the Tunney Act (See Sec 5,USC Sec 16). This is a great opportunity for everyone to send in their intelligent and informed opinions on the matter. If some of the major developer groups (i.e. Samba) would put together a well-thought-out and easy-to-read commentary on their concerns, maybe we as a community can affect the process. See the ZDNet
article for more information." No forum for public comment is up yet (first, the proposed settlement must be published in the Federal Register), but should be in the near future.
First of all, I really hope the slashdot crowd refrains from silly flames and other immature letters, like some unfortunately have resorted to in the past.
Anyways, are there some sort of comprehensive website that explains in lay-man terms what has happened in this case?
Reading court documents and simular isn't too thrilling, especially when I don't understand half of the legal mumbo-jumbo, and I also find that much of the info that I _can_ read is spread across a zillion websites.
We all know that the deal sucks, we all tend to agree that the deal-making process sucks, and most of us think that the deal-makers have serious personal problems.
Don't bother telling the Judge that part.
What we can tell her that the Court might actually listen to is this: how can Microsoft wiggle through loopholes? A consent decree is, when you get down to it, code. Legal rather than computer code, but code nonetheless. Let's apply the famous myriad eyeballs to finding bugs in the code here, and tell the Court in clear terms (as the Samba team have) just how it's broken.
Let's tell the Court what they don't know about this deal.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
Here is a list of states suing microsoft (courtesy of Microsoft's "freedom to Innovate Network"):
California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, North Carolina, New York, Ohio, Utah, Washington, D.C., West Virginia, Wisconsin
Here's what I sent to the Attorney General in my state:
"
I believe that any settlement that would have a chance of restoring competition to the computer industry would require at least the following:
1) All terms must be enforced by a non-Microsoft party with full access to all Microsoft resources, including source code. Microsoft cannot be trusted to voluntarily comply with any agreement.
2) All communication protocols used by all microsoft products must be fully documented. Such documents must be made available to any and all parties for any reason. Microsoft is not allowed to change their protocols until 90 days after documentation of such changes are made available to any parties requesting them.
3) The previous term must also apply to all Microsoft APIs (Application Programming Interfaces).
4) Microsoft may not keep agreements secret. In particular, the terms of the current OEM agreements, currently protected as "trade secrets" must be disclosed.
5) Microsoft may not use agreements with Computer OEMs to restrict in any way the addition of other software to the computers, along with Microsoft products. In particular, OEMs are not to be prohibited from selling "dual-boot" systems,
where the system can be booted into Windows or into some other operating system, such as Linux or a form of BSD or BeOS.
6) Microsoft may not use their licensing terms to stop users or developers from using Open Source software or Free Software.
7) Microsoft may not meddle in the the legislative processes of Fderal, State or local governemnts or bodies that make recommendations to them, with their work on UCITA being a prime model of behaviour that is prohibited to them as a
monopoly.
"
Remember M$ are still being dragged through the courts in Europe so Europeans ought to send some of those intelligent and informed opinions to their representitives too.
What bugs me with the proposed US 'settlement' is all those opt outs - the register eloquently outlines the many flaws . Once again the the excuse of 3v1l h4X0rs is used to allow M$ to hide 'security sensitive' information - who decides what's sensitive? Why M$ of course!
--
Reverse outsourcing: it's the future
So why submit it here? Only 1 post in 100 in a Microsoft thread actually offers anything intelligent to say, with the rest merely about the evils of Redmond and the valiance of those who oppose him, with the general gist being that Microsoft sucks for such and such. This is boring to read. Hell, it must be boring to write. Don't any of you ever get tired of writing the same thing as umpteen other drones every single time Microsoft is mentioned? Posting this here is likely to result in a flood of Microsoft attacks based on poor facts or none at all.
Sure you can, the Chineese certainly do. But seriously, if you can actually get ahold of a senator on the phone, or in person, they typically will listen to about any view point presented by anyone, be it one of thier constituants or not. Remeber, most politicians are actually good people. They got into it to make the world (or at least some specific part of it) a better place. Nobody goes into civil service for the money.
Mod point free since 2001
IMHO The point still being missed by all these settlements is that if everything goes according to microsoft's plan, within 2 years they WON'T GIVE A SHIT anymore about weither or not their protocols are open or closed whatever.
.NET myservices. Microsoft is forcing all IU's (Ignorant Users) passports and microsoft is extremely good at forcing stuff upon people. .NET is free, Myservices not.
What NEEDS to be adressed is the passport system and the
In the end of it, this will mean that we will simply be forced to use Microsoft products because we need a way to authenticate to microsoft servers.
I Really feel that nobody is adressing this problem anywhere, microsoft will just get small tap on hand again but nothing more...
anyone agree or am I just pouring out pure crap?
Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity
This may seem like a really dumb question but does anyone know if
the Tunney Act allows/welcomes commentry from non-US citizens?
While I'm here: how does any legal solution rendered in America
affect Microsoft's offshore activity?
The reason I'm asking is, as a British Subject(sic), I'm becoming
increasingly concerned that if thwarted in it's march across
America, Microsoft will increase it's corporate presence in
Britain. Blair and Gates are already pretty chummy so the idea of
Microsoft seeking political exile is a distict possiblity IMO.
Dave Winer (co-creator of SOAP among other things, so he has dealt and continues to deal with MS on the interoperability front) has a few things to say about what Microsoft stands to gain, what it stood to lose from the settlement but didn't, and a (plausible, and hopefully incorrect) prediction of what the Government stands to gain from Microsoft controlling the greater Internet. (think Hailstorm/XP plus Carnivore)
I think Dave would be a good person to provide suitably knowledgable 'public comment' for this bill. Read his blog; he's a decent guy to boot :)
"Einstein argued that [...] God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such faith comforts the software engineer." ~ Brooks
Has anyone written such a history?
I was reading Antipatterns the other day and ran across the "Vendor Lock-In" anti-pattern. The suggested solution for this anti-pattern was to create an isolation layer on your network, so that interfaces on one side of the layer would not depend on interfaces on the other. Microsoft's behavior with .net, Kerberos and other networking protocols seem aimed at marginalizing the isolation layer that TCP/IP provides.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I don't think anyone (with the capacity for thought) thinks Microsoft should be desolved. The ripple effect on the economy and industry would be horrific. I think the major complaint is that it seems that Microsoft is rewarded for bad behavior more often then not. Microsoft needs to be taught to play well with others.
When we talk of monopolies we do not mean that the consumer has no other choice, which is absurd, but rather the consumer is in a position to be lied to and coerced. IBM might have invented FUD, but Microsoft has made an artform and a successful school of marketing based on it. And to make matters worse they direct it not on enterprise level businesses that should know better. But to John Q public, there should be no expectation that john Q should know better.
Some argue that it is just good business, that Microsoft has 85 percent of the Desktop market and should do everything in it's power to maintain it. But that is not the whole story. The same trite crowd that thinks that Microsoft has earned it's position in the market and thinks that it just "out-businessed" the competition would do well to inspect how Microsoft earned that 85%, how it crushed better technologies with it's FUD+Vaporware campaign of the early to middle nineties. And how the badly consumer was cheated.
As the Microsoft apologists argue that Microsoft brought computers to the masses, that windows 95 allowed the blue collar worker a powerful and intuitive OS on inexpensive harware. A counter argument could be made that the competition, if allowed to compete on a playing field that while not level, was fair by the rules of business as established in a post WWII America, would have brought to market more powerful, more intuitive and more accessible technologies.
The horror stories of Netscape and Apple and Stac electronics... etc. etc... are telling, but it is interesting how most companies have dropped the complaints to a large degree because Microsoft is now so monolithic that it is better (more lucritive and "safe") to just cut deals and work with them to bash ones head against them (Read: Apple)
Microsoft became this monolith by stealing, buying, intimidating and coercing. This is not opinion, this is public record and is in the testimony. The reality of Microsoft is that they are now a cornerstone to the technology industry and perhaps even the American economy. Which is sad only in somuch as they will never be forced to atone for the damage they did to innovation and inspiration that the shops they obliterated could have brought to market.
As i type this, there is a talking head on MSNBC, she is talking about airport security, she has just said, "Bill gates could probably come out with a system where a button is pressed and information is brought up on a screen...". Heh, Bill Gates has somehow marketed his name to be synonymous with applied software solutions... That is what the uneducated public thinks, when they think about computers and technology.
Do an interview, let the /. unwashed mod up the 10 best, or at least 10 lucid, remarks, filter them through the proper suit to correct the general non-command of English you see on here, and submit.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Cheers...
$HOME is where the
-- silver_p
My question to all North Americans: does it bother you that the USA legal system (as this case confirms) seems to consist of nothing more than 'who has more money eventually wins regardless'?
If Microsoft were a small company or individual with no substantial wealth, this case would have been concluded years ago and a more fair and justified judgement would have been in place. Just what is it that makes it possible for Microsoft and other huge companies to effectively stall and convolute the US legal system until the situation becomes favourable to them?
As a European, I practically dismiss the US legal system as merely a tool for large corporate bodies to use in a similar way as they use other available mechanisms for economic jousting. In a similar way, the 'lobbying' system the USA has in politics (we normally call this 'bribery' here) seems to be another fine tool for the comporations to use.
This is a great opportunity for everyone to send in their intelligent and informed opinions on the matter.
If by "intelligent and informed" you mean "half-baked and uninformed", then you've got the right place. Otherwise, you should note that your email was inadvertently posted to Slashdot.
:)
ShoutingMan.com
Female Prison Rape in NY
Any written comments relating to such proposal and any responses by the United States thereto, shall also be filed with such district court and published by the United States in the Federal Register within such sixty-day period.
2) The act does not actually require responses to be listened to. All that is required is that they be published in the Federal Register.
3) The biggest problem with the government case is the behavior of the judge.
4) The second biggest problem is that the case the DoJ made in the trial is not the one made out on Slashdot.
5) The appeals court reversed substantial parts of Jackson's 'findings of fact'. In particular they rejected the view that they were bound to consider a statement to be a statement of fact and not a conclusion. As a result Jackson's findings of fact mean very little because most of the findings slashdotters are enjoying are conclusatory opinions that would not have been binding on the new judge in the retrial.
Somewhere along the line the DoJ was captured by Sun, Netscape et. al. The legitimate case against the MSFT licensing arrangements was not given anywhere near the attention it deserved in the trial. Instead the DoJ case was largely made on the basis of Netscape's view of the injustices Netscape felt had been done to them.
It is not surprising then that the remedy is not what many on Slashdot would want. The DoJ did not bring a case against MSFT integrating the Web browser APIs deep into the operating system. In fact the DoJ explicitly denied that it was doing so because by doing so it could claim that MSFT was lying when it said it could not remove IE from the O/S. As a result we now have a court rulling that requires the user to be able to remove the IE user interface application but not the dlls it calls. The IE platform is absolutely untouched by the settlement.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Here are the good solutions that I have heard so far:
-Free Open File Formats
-Free Open Communication Protocols
-Free Open APIs
-No prorietary 3rd party file formats, API's, and communication protocols.
-60/90 day free an public pre-notice documentation of all changes and additons to Microsoft file formats, communications protocols, and APIs.
-Public Disclosure of OEM agreements
-"Flat rate" OEM agreements, so OEM's can bundle Windows any legal way they want and Microsoft has no recourse.
-Restriction of Licenceing agreements to "Copyright Only"
-Stop all bundleing with the OS. All aplications must be sold as a seperate package, or at least put on a seperate CD.
-Microsoft for a period of 5 years should not be able to invest in/buy out other companies.
-Microsoft must make public all agreements with hardware manufactures.
-The price of Windows must be artificialy price capped using a formula like PRICE = COST_OF_PRODUCTION*1.25 This will ensure that the consumer is paying a true "market" price for the product.
-Auction the rights to develop each Microsoft product for platforms that Microsoft does not support. Microsoft will then give the winner of each auction full acess to the product's source code under a NDA.
-No spinnoff of a Microsoft division can be made into a seperate company for the next 3 years.
bash-2.04$
bash-2.04$yes "Don't you hate dialup connections?"| write USERNAME
First, GPL doesn't allow its technology to be used by vendors who will charge for their wares.
:)
Perhaps I'm misinterpreting your meaning, but you do know that it's is perfectly ok to sell GPL'd software, don't you? After all, that's what SuSE, Red Hat, Mandrake et al do. You just can't use GPL'd code with non-GPL'd code, nor can you take it 'closed' then sell it.
However, regarding your main premise, which seems to be: Linux (and FS in general) present their own boundary to entry due to the fact that you can get the software for no monetary cost, provided you have internet access. This lack of monetary cost precludes a commercial entity from offering an alternative to Microsoft because if someone is going to switch from MS products, why would they pay when there is a (F)(f)ree alternative?
I think this concept is a valid one, but there is a reason why it is so. I think it goes right back to Microsoft in the first place (and other closed/commercial OS vendors to a much lesser extent). Windows (and now Office and Internet Explorer) have such a high monopoly barrier to entry that the only alternative product that could be created and survive is a Free one (or actually several Free ones, if you include the BSD's).
Please recall that there used to be 'traditional' commercial alternatives to Windows: From CP/M to DR-DOS, to OS/2 (and others I'm sure I'm omitting). They were all run out of business by Microsoft's predatory use of its monopoly (this point can obviously be debated, but the Appeals Court agreed with this premise unanimously, 7-0, and this was supposed to be the one court in all the US that was most likely to come down on Microsoft's side) Since there was no more commercail competition (short of $5-10,000+ Unix boxes), the market came up with an alternative that could not be killed or bought out. IMO, Microsoft created this situation by its behavior.
I believe that markets (or any large group of people) react very similarly to biological organisms. In this case, Microsoft is a bad element (I hesitate to use emotionally charged words like cancer or virus that carry their own ulterior connotations) which is controlling an inordinate portion of the market/organism, so the rest of the organism has been trying to take it down a notch or two. Finally, the only choice seems to be to "cut off their air supply" by attempting to kill their 2 main sources of revenue/sustenance: Windows and Office.
If these forces were to succeed absolutely and kill off Microsoft (highly unlikely and certainly not necessarily a good thing), then the mainstream software components we all use every day (OS, word processor, email, browser, etc.) would be Free, commodity products, and commercial vendors could focus on providing something tangible that actually requires true manufacturing: hardware (this is, of course, the main business of many of MS's competitors: IBM, Sun, Apple)
Summation: I think you're basically right, but the situation was created by Microsoft itself. Linux simply grew out of the situation as it existed. Regardless, there's certainly nothing that can be done about it now.
Cheers..............