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Gamecube Hits US Early
semaj writes "It looks like retailers are being told they can sell them as they come in instead of waiting for the November 18 offical release date. PlanetGameCube has the story. Go!" So, anyone want to get us a review unit or two?
looks liek i know where i'm going on my lunch break......
-shpoffo
...of Nintendo, in the attempt to get a jump on the xbox.
Of course, they might have been planning this all along.
I wonder what other interesting marketing tricks msft and nintendo have in store for each other.
Looks like someone is a little scared of coming out after the XBOX on Thursday. Will be interesting to see which ends up with a larger q4 sales.
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
The games are from $5 to $25 on Ebay.
I called Wal-mart, KayBee Toys, Media Play, and K-Mart, and they're all sticking to the November 18 date. Some retailers don't even know about the "early release" part.
:P
Shall we slashdot the stores that have them, in meatspace? Post one here and start a rush!
-- http://frobnosticate.com
It has much better features
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Moderator's essentials
Please people - remember be kind to your local software/electronics store employees. This is likely to be a long week for quite a few of them with unaware management.
:^)
Ryan Fenton
I just don't understand the appeal of these dinguses
The appeal is simple. It's a dedicated box that you don't have to worry about drivers or hardware conflicts with. True Plug and Play, just set it up and go. Load times are usually much less, and errors are not tolerated. So, when you get a console game, you expect it to work right the first time, no tweaks needed. Great for the non-technically inclined who doesn't understand how all the components in a computer work. Plus, if you have a PC already, you don't have to worry about a gamer monopolizing the computer when you have work to do.
Electronic Frontier Foundation for online civil rights information
I called all around, and not a single retailer had any idea what I was talking about. They all planned to stick to the 18th, and found it amusing that I was even asking if they would be selling early.
This seems to be the case pretty much everywhere, as I've been surfing Usenet and various message boards trying to find out where these alleged stores are. As far as I can tell, they don't exist -- not one person has posted credible information about a store selling GameCubes *anywhere*. Not one.
I have a feeling the date will get broken, but it hasn't been so far. I would love to be proven wrong -- if anybody knows of a store in the SF Bay Area which is selling GameCubes, speak up!
ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck
Simple:
1. I run linux on all my computers. There aren't a lot of games availible for linux (although I do play a bit of the Loki Quake 3 port from time to time).
2. No hardware incompatibilies or driver problems. A console is a fixed hardware platform, so you never have problems endemic to PC systems
3. Games come out finished. No downloading a huge patch of bugfixes after a game is releaed. It just works, the first time.
4. I can play on my big TV. (well, with TV out on most video cards, this isn't as much of an issue anymore)
5. The games are different. I like Japanese created RPGS. None are avilible for PC (unless they're ports of console games). This is mainly a matter of taste - If I was into FPS games, I'd definitely choose a PC.
BBK
I went to a cube club and played a few. My favorite was Star Wars, I'm a big fan of the movies and the game was just unbeleivable. I also like the Madden Football series, and as expected Madden 2002 kicks ass. All of the games look really good, I didn't play the others all that much. There was a huge line for Luigi's Mansion and SSBM. All in all, this thing rocks.
~ now you know
That I run my vid games into the s-video input of my wintv pvr and set the tv tuner app to tune to the aux input of the device and play my console games through my computer monitor basically...
Sorry, but I still think nothing quite beats the originalRoad Rash on my 3D0. Primitive graphicis by today's standards, but oh my, what great game play and great music to go with it. I tried a later rev of Road Rash on N64 and DAMN it sucked... Better eye candy but it just wasn't right...
Does anyone else think that this might just be a little preemptive strike against x-box??
;-)
The X-Box comes out this Thursday November 15th. Even if the Gamecubes are in stores today that is only 2 days before the x-box. What kind of idiot makes their buying decision on which console comes out first? If that were the case they'd all be playing on PS2s. I think I'll stick with my PC games and let the console gamers battle it out.
The console industry has always been about closed up boxen. Well, since the NES...
The bitter irony is, in 1983 the Wall Street Journal wrote a report on the kinds of predatory practices that TI was engaging in by charging exorbitant sums for the right to develop game ROMS for their 99/4A computer. These days, that's not only standard industry practice, with the way they undersell consoles the market would collapse totally without it!
Sony is headed in the right direction with PS2 Linux (which AFAIK contains an OpenGL driver for their high-speed graphics thingy).
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
PC's are still too complicated for games. To run most games on PC's, you still have to use a DOS-based OS, (Win 95/98/ME) and deal with all of the headaches that that brings. If I want to play a game, I want to have FUN. Configuring memory access or video drivers, etc. i snot my idea of fun. I like the idea of putting a CD/DVD in the game box, and pressing one buttton. It works first time, every time.
Also, game boxes are MUCH cheaper. I paid $300 for a PS/2. To get the same quality games on a PC, I'd have to buy a P3 something, an expensive video card, a large monitor, a joystick, etc.
And, even better, the new consoles are also DVD players, so with one box in your living room, you can play games, watch movies, and listen to music, and none of the boxes are more complicated than having a "power" and a "reset" button.
Sure, I may get one of these newer consoles eventually. But who can deny the coolness of the Dreamcast. There is so much outside development going on for the little machine (emulation, linux, BSD, etc.) that there is still a lot going on for it. Before I buy any new consoles, I need to finish playing my 50+ Dreamcast games. Retail stores are closing out on Dreamcast software. Some of it is so/so, but most of it is great. There is something out there for all gamers and the prices are just right. It's too bad that little box didn't last, as the hardware abd games are still awesome. It's time for me to pick up a second machine for my computer desk.
Or who spends more on marketing. Microsoft: $500 million for demo units, Taco Bell tie-ins (every fucking employee wearing an X-Box Tee), and a payola system to retailers to pump up X-box and not mention Gamecube vs. $60 million for a quiet rollout. As much as I love the Gamecube so far I think it's clear who will win the console wars. PlayStation 2 first, with X-Box close behind and the Gamecube faithfully bringing up the rear.
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
cygnuhchur
ive yet to play a game that does not run on win2k. Even older games who I thought might have troubles work fine.
-
I wish I could mod you up instead.
This is exactly the path we'll be adopting. We bought a Nintendo 64 which my wife is perfectly happy with (when she gets the time to play it anyway). I would have to talk her into buying a new console. But, why the hell would I buy one? The PC *is* a better gaming platform (expecially with my Athlon 1.2Ghz + GeForce 2 GTS rig + CABLE connection + ad nauseum). So that means I don't want a new console, my wife isn't ready for one, and our children are too young still to even care (if they ever do).
I love the look of Halo and other games coming out, but they're just not worth the $$$ of new hardware. Also, it seems wasteful to buy yet another console while we've still got a perfectly good and under-utilized one already. Combine that with a decent PC and no console for us.
Also - Is is just me, or are there just too many damn games coming out (PC and otherwise)???!!! I mean, I barely have time to finish the games I already have. I can ill afford the time spent on new ones. Maybe I should just crawl under a rock until I finish the ones I have. When I come out again, there should be a whole new lineup about 2 generations in quality further along.
Now, if Halo comes out in regular PC format, I may just jump at that. But that's the last one. Really..
I'm serious.
Really.
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
Sometimes, I just want to play an arcade like game; lots of randomness, but little time investiment.
The games typically made for consoles are along these lines, though certainly need not be limited to these. I've been OD'ing on Crazy Taxi 1/2 of late :-), because 1) it's fast to get into, 2) short time investment for amount of fun, and 3) sufficiently random and fixed to be enjoyable. Many of the sports games for consoles are like this (I understand that this is one reason why Tony Hawk's game is hot).
There are few, if any, comparable games on the PC. The closest that seems to come this direction are games like Bejeweled, but that's less dexterity than brain power. I'd love to see more games like this on the PC, but I believe the problem is that they don't sell well because of the apparent competition from the console market.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
Seeing as both the PS2 and X-box are DVD players, I still don't understand why Nintendo elected to go with the 3 inch disc instead. If/when I decide to buy one of them, it'll definitely have an impact on my choice.
uh, i read somewhere Nintendo was having a combined $450 million dollar campaign for gamecube and gameboy advance ... marketing them together, so to speak.
Based on MS history, the X-Box will flop...
Nosce te Ipsum
The reason that I've stuck with my PC is the feeling that if I bought a console, I'd be getting ripped off at every turn. It's like the razors vs. razor blades theorem that every business class teaches ad nauseum. I can get a console for $200-300 -- great! But then I'm stuck spending $60 on each additional game I want to play. That's where the console people make their momey, and that's where I'd feel like I was getting ripped off.
A PC requires a larger initial investment, but most people already have one for Internet access. For $300, you can add in: a GeForce 2 MX, two force feedback game pads, a high-end steering wheel, and a good FF joystick. You'd probably have some money left over for games, too!
The downside is that you have to deal with drivers, incompatibilities, patches, etc. The upside is that you have access to online play, *mods*, and patches that redefine the game, thereby adding many hours of gameplay to a game you already paid for.
I also find that the hard drive allows for deeper, more intense gaming experiences. Career mode is standard in PC games. Between broadband access and hard drives, I think that consoles are just playing catch-up right now.
Also, let's not forget an important point. If you ever spent money on a Dreamcast, Jaguar, Saturn, or 3DO system, you'll know what I'm talking about. There's NO chance that the PC will bust. 18 months ago, who would have thought that Dreamcast would be dead right now? Who's to say that in 18 months from now, we won't be joking about the great Microsoft X-failure?!
For these reasons, the PC is the best gaming machine available.
Great for the non-technically inclined who doesn't understand how all the components in a computer work.
That's not how I look at it at all. I program computers for a living, and I still prefer console games to PC games.
Reason #1: Controls
The main issue is the controller. PC gamepads are inferior to console controllers and very few people have them in the first place. So, PC games can all be played with the keyboard/mouse. A game like Mario 64 simply doesn't translate to the keyboard, so game manufacturers just don't make games like that for the PC -- most people wouldn't have a suitable controller.
Reason #2: Gameplay
This is a correllary to Reason #1. Console games have controllers more suited to action gaming, and therefore end up with more action games. If you like action games (as opposed to FPS games or RTS games, which are easier to control on the PC), you'll do better on a console. If you like FPSs or strategy games, stick to the PC.
Reason #3: Audience
Consoles are cheap and easy to use. PCs aren't. Because of that, there are at least ten times as many console gamers as PC gamers, and therefore console games tend to be higher budget and have higher production values. Only a few PC game companies, like Blizzard, have a large enough audience to justify multi-million-dollar budgets. Tons of console games have budgets that big.
Reason #4: Graphics
Console games look better, despite the fact that PCs are more powerful. This is due to the fact that developers know the exact capabilities of the console, and can tweak and optimize to their heart's content, while in PC gaming they have to run on everything from a PII-400 to a P4-2000, with every video card you can think of as well. You usually end up with better-looking console games as a result. Console games also tend to be smoother -- even high-end PCs stutter now and then, and anything running Windows is more infinitely more likely to crash than a console.
Reason #5: Experience
My PC is up in my office. My consoles are down in my living room, hooked up to my entertainment center. This is the case for everybody else I know, as well. Given the choice, I'd rather kick back on my couch and let the surround sound wash over me while watching the action on my TV than sit at my keyboard.
Reason #6: Party Gaming
The PC rules the online world, no question. However, many of us find multiplayer gaming a lot more fun when your friends are in the same room, because trash talking and beer passing are a lot easier. Having four people hooked up to a GameCube, all playing the same game, doesn't sound at all weird. The only PC equivalent is a LAN party, but those are a very niche gathering.
It's not just about tech savvyness, folks -- consoles have a lot of advantages over PCs.
ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck
Also, you have the 'sold out of Xbox, but still have cubes left' syndrome, where people may go looking for an X-box, only to be told 'we don't have any left, but we have a few gamecubes', its unlikely to happen, since IIRC Xbox has a slightly larger initial unit allocation, but again, it might happen.
Also, its no big deal for nintendo to do this really, its not like they need to ship out the cubes on a different schedule, they're just telling retailers to ignore the release date when they receive them and sell them as soon as they want.
And last, but not least, it generates a little extra press attention, much like when Sega started selling the saturn 3 months early back in '95.
Maybe this is more of an Ask Slashdot question...
I still enjoy the Mario worlds, havent played in a while (havent has a ninendo in a while).
they are just plain fun...
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
one other thing about release dates, you have a crapload of stuff sitting around in a warehouse taking up space, it was really bad when the "next generation" of computers rolled out...
"we have 50 computers that just came into our recieving dock and they have to sit here for a week?!?"
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
- Even if the hardware is good :
- you don't know if the development will be good (remember the first PS2 games),
- you don't know if its presence on the market will be sufficient to have a good game offer
I'd rather prefer to wait some weeks after its diffusion to know if it's good enough to spend my money in (of course if everybody is doing like that it will never happenMaybe I'm paranoid or "geeky-minded" enough, but at least I'm really happy with my choices doing it this way.
The word at EB is that if we break street date on ANY new product (not just GCN, but MGS2, X-Box, or the like) we (the company, and most likely the individual store) get fined $100K. The reason for this is that when you spend millions on an ad crusade fixated on one date and the (game/machine/widget) comes out early, the campaign is immediately wasted. (Nintendo/Microsoft/Konami) doesn't want their entire ad budget to go down the toilet all at once, so they impose these fines. It may be strongarm tactics, but hell, it's not like it's price fixing or something worse. I say if they want to build suspense-- and that's exactly the reason for street dates-- then let them.
Besides, it's not like there're really going to be any left for walk-in sales anyway...
"Why Subscribe?" Good question...
Its all about the games. The GameCube is a TV Game - it says so on the box. Its built to enable Nintendo style games to be written easily. This - to me - makes it a thousand times more attractive than the PS2 or Xbox, both of which are pretty much PCs with bits missing. CPU speed etc doesn't come into it - give it 6 months and the PS2 / Xbox 'numbers' will be laughable compared to a £800 PC from PC World - the GameCube will still rock! Why?
Ah - the warm feeling looking forward to Mario Kart Cubed! Show me a PC game that comes CLOSE to the purity of Mario Kart and I'll sell my Nintendo shares - until that far distant day there'll be a nintendo cluttering up my living room floor!
And yes, I am a grown adult, and yes I did play Mario 64 all the way through, and I did love it.
This is the worst sig ever.
The argument that the reason PC games look inferior to console games because of the different systems... I don't believe it. The sole reason: PC games are scaleable. High end systems can be cranked up to maximum detail settings. Slower computers can tune them down. Yet PC games on max detail still don't look as good. It's either a general lack of skill on part of PC developers or just that PCs in general are not designed well for games.
Men believe what they want. - Caesar
I agree with you on many of those counts, but the issue is still you or me.
I don't have driver problems all the time, and I don't get error messages when I install my games. I too, like to play games sometimes for only 5 or 10 minutes, so I play:
Quake 3 Arena
CounterStrike
Ghost Recon
And for the kids we like:
Nick Jr.
PBS
Now I can image when my son outgrows those sites, he might be ready for a console. No one has really made that point here- they all cite drivers issues, error messages, etc. But my point is that many people may be buying into marketing and thinking they somehow need a console.
Sure, Hemos, I'll get you a test unit. Just mail me a check for $225, and I'll run right out and get one for you. Heck, for an extra $50, I'll even keep it for a few weeks and do all of the testing for you.
hey, when you look at the 3D0 and then look at today's consols, don't you think the 3D0 was about 10 years to early? tobad, it was a realy good console/famly entertainment center
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
erm... two computers on a network so you dont have to crowd around one split screen TV?
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
- You can now hook up a USB ethernet/modem device to a PS2 and play Tony Hawk 3 online.
o duct.asp?pf_id=210436
- Sony's official modem/ethernet accessory and 40 GB hard drive are both out in Japan.
- You can get a Zip Drive for PS2
http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/pr
Men believe what they want. - Caesar
Try playing PowerStone 2 on your PC. You can't because:
1. The game will never be available for the PC.
2. Virtually no PC game allows head-to-head play without everyone owning their own PC and then networking them together.
3. Even if all of the above were satisfied you can't crowd 6 people around a 17" monitor.
4. Even if you could, most people don't have couches and tables around their computer for spectators to watch them game.
The PC may have more titles but consoles have different titles. When are you going to see Gran Turismo 3 on a PC? How about Shen Mue? Crazy Taxi? Dead or Alive 3? Devil May Cry? Metal Gear Solid 2? Mario Party 3?
Most of those games don't have any comparable counterpart on the PC platform.
You buy a console because you want to play the kinds of games that come out for consoles. Just like I don't buy a console because I want to play a good RPG...those are usually only available on a PC.
It depends on what you look for in a game. If you consider yourself mature because you like "incredibly graphic, violent, adult games" (although I think that would classify you as immature in most people's books) then you are correct in Nintendo not designing its games that way.
:)
But there are 3rd party games. You do know that Resident Evil is a game cube exclusive now?
Nintendo's games are aimed at kids because kids play games for a different reason than teenagers (or adults as they like to be called in marketing; I don't know how many adults really find being a zombie hunting vampire in a dark game with cheesy blood splatters all that appealing, but the 12-20year old
"adults" sure love it). Kids want a fun game and Nintendo games, if you can get passed the cartoon kiddie graphics are generally fundementally fun. Mario Golf and Mario Tennis may have artwork that appeals to pre teens instead of teens, but they are damn fun.
Teenagers seem to have to show they are more mature than younger kids and gooble up games that feature undead mutant aliens instead of Mario just because of the theme, even if the game is actually pretty bad. Now there are lots of good games that feature violence like MGS, I'm not saying they are all bad. I'm saying teenagers are much more forgiving about the game itself if it has a mature theme.
Pokemon is one of the best RPGs of all time. Its a shame that most adults miss out on it because they're worried they'd sound silly telling their friends at work they stayed up all night playing Pokemon. They'd certainly have their work cut out for them to explain that its actually a good game, not just a cute mascot.
As a teenager I too rejected Nintendo for Sega and then for the PS1. But now, looking back, Nintendo had some great games that I wish I had played. I'll be getting a Game Cube this era for sure because I don't want to miss out on Nintendo's *fun* games, even if they aren't *cool*. Does this mean I'm now actually an adult?
You want the Panasonic version due out in a few months in Japan, and probably sometime next year in North America.
From employees in two different chains in Salem, NH: They are not allowed to sell early. in fact, Nintendo has a special hotline set up to report stores that are selling early, and the sales reps for those stores will get fired if the thing is sold early.
Dunno if this is out-of-date bullshit or up-to-the-minute rumor-quashing... doesn't mean I won't check the stores at my local mall when I get home.
for Halo on the mac.
Until then I'll have to (here it comes) console myself until then.
(grin)
If it is not on fire, it is a software problem.
$60? For Console games? US sugested price for gamecube games are 50$ (ebgames.com), and then it comes down as the game gets older. Looking at ebgames, new PC games are /exactly/ the same cost.
.. some games you may not be able to play on a PC
.. it's just where you're priorities lie.
.. sure, they both do the same things at their core, but depending on your environment and demands on the technology, you will choose the approrpriate weapon.
Oh wait, I forgot that you could copy PC games. How silly of me not to realize that the cost in savings on the PC is due to the fact that its easy to steal games! (I do this myself, but I'm playing devils advocate here.) Throw in:
- comp management
- different hardware standards
- shorter upgrade cycles (although at the benifit of games that can drive the hardware adoption, not vice versa)
But really, its apples and oranges. If you like to drive, SUVs and MGs are both legitimate means of getting around
Console vs. PC is about as useless as arguing Pad of Paper VS Word
"Old man yells at systemd"
Its just you.
Nintendo has consistently shown that they know how to make great games. Their first party games always have the best gameplay dynamics and replay value. Resident Evil is a great example of a horrible "game" with great graphics and shock value. When you watch it, it looks cool. When you play it, it feels like you are playing Dragon's Lair from a past decade.
Get over the bright colors and cute characters and actually play one of the Mario games, or Waverace, or any other Nintendo 1st party game. You will never play any other game with such tight control and attention to design.
Maybe your prefer violent games because you want to look cool and grownup. You're right that a lot of nintendo games look childish, and they are. It actually makes them playable by people at all ages. It's all about gameplay, and some violent games like those you mentioned aren't always very fun to play. Still, teenagers like you play them because they're adults' games and it's cool to play them. I know a lot of adults who play nintendo-games, myself being one of them.
To answer your question: there are also some non-kiddie games comming out for the GC, Metroid being one of them. Now, if Square made some cool RPGs for gamecube, maybe even I would buy one :)
On the other hand, in 16 years of owning various console systems (NES, SNES, PSX, DC, N64, GB, even a secondhand Atari 2600) I have never, ever seen a single game crash. Also, I have only once had to upgrade any console (the $20 video upgrade for the N64).
The only games on my PC are Subspace, Tachyon and X-Wing Alliance.
Oh, and Nethack of course. But Nethack hardly requires much in the way of CPU resources or graphics cards. :)
Here's how I look at it:
Games on the PC are easy to make - anyone with a graphics toolkit and a few thousand dollars can make one, and just because you have big names behind it (John Romero) doesn't mean it'll be any good (Daikatana).
Games on PC are also repetetive, for the most part. Once I'm bored of Quake III (which I never liked anyway), I can move on to Unreal Tournament, and then Wolfenstein 3D, and then..... But it's all the same! Sure, they're fun, but sometimes I want something different.
Games on Nintendo systems usually tend to be two things: well done, and fun. Maybe the graphics aren't killer (usually they're great if not awesome though), and maybe it's not eye candy, but at least it's not ONLY eye candy. Most of the other systems I've seen have awesome looking games that suck. The controls (game-side) are often totally pathetic, the games are repetetive, and they're just plain boring.
Nintendo is FUN. Mario Kart is FUN, Mario Brothers is FUN, Smash Brothers is FUN. And most of all, with a TV system, you can crowd people around and everyone can play/watch. You can have parties and people will play the GameCube, because it's a group activity. As another poster mentioned, you can't crowd 10 people around a 17" monitor, or a 21" for that matter.
Computers are a one-person thing. Two people is sometimes possible, but usually a stretch. Three is often nearly impossible. With a TV, this is no problem. Party entertainment, family entertainment, it all works.
And best of all, you won't have to buy $250 in new hardware every year and waste your time fixing driver installations just to keep the latest games playable.
That's how I see it, anyway.
--Dan
No, I disagree. For my wife and I, games aren't all about gameplay. If they were, then I'd have a Gameboy with a few pixellated colors moving rapidly around the screen. I actually enjoy a good story, good characters, good scenery, etc. What's the story behind Mario Kart, or hell, Mario*? I guess that the Nintendo games tend to be more pure hand-eye-coordination than have any real depth to them. Or look at the Pokemon stuff. From what I can tell, it's a massive list of made up anime characters that have numerical characteristics. Where's the fun in that? That's the kind of things that younger kids generally go for. I'm just really curoius as to how many grown men really enjoy Nintendo. Or maybe it's just a geek thing, I don't know.
No, it's going to be settled by parents looking to buy a new video game system for their kids.
The Gamecube is almost half the price, has Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, and all the other standard kid's games. It's also brightly coloured. Believe it or not, parents have mentioned to me how "cute" the thing looks. I work in electronics at Walmart, so I know a teeny tiny bit about what parents are really looking for.
The X-box is almost double the price of the Gamecube and has absolutely no kid's games.Apparently, it also looks "ugly".
If you were a parent looking for a big christmas gift, which one would you get for your kids? Later on, maybe other factors will come into play, but the first round in this war will be won by parents looking to placate their kids. And if the Gamecube crushes the Xbox early on, which one do you think developers will flock to?
First off, let me tell you that I am biased, I have a PS2 and about 15 games (and about 30 or so PS1 games). That said, I am not looking to buy either a X-Box or Gamecube.
Ok, now that I have that off my chest, I would like to declare the current state of affairs in the gaming world:
The lineup.
- PS2 has already won among those 16+ (adult gamers).
- Nintendo will always win with kids under 16 because it's their parents who buy it for them. Nintendo is going to trounce X-Box in X-mas sales.
- MS has a place, but it's a shame that for now it's going to be last. X-box reminds me of Nader, because you know he's not going to win, but he's going to take votes away from someone else. in this case, taking sales away from PS2. X-Box is the other console geared at 16+ crowds.
For the sake of brevity, I'm going to leave Gamecube out of the rest of this discussion, Nintendo knows their target audience and how to market to them, bravo for them, they aren't going out of business anytime soon. X-Box however has a LONG road to travel, uphill, in snow. The PS2 is already beginning to release 2nd generation titles and is slated to release additional hardware/mods to their console soon (I believe it was Q1 2002, if anyone knows the exact timing, let me know). X-Box has still yet to prove itself as a worthy contendor to any console.
Christmas shoppers and Terrorists.
Another blow to the X-Box is also their strong selling point, games geared towards adults. Well, a year ago, many parents might have turned a blind eye to video game violence that their kids ingested, but now we have evil terrorists and we have to protect the children. Chalk that round up to Gamecube and their family oriented games.
The conclusion.
Gamecube will take the sales lead this season, with *gasp* X-Box right behind them. Sales of games for PS2 will be astronomical though as many buyers are now asking for titles instead of units.
Hammer of Truth
It's hard to beat the Mario Party series for multiplayer fun. The fact that each turn has different people on different teams, or against each other help make it so that no one person gets too upset at another.
-no broken link
What kind of idiot makes their buying decision on which console comes out first?
Much of our consumer market is based on the "impulse buy." Products are priced and marketed in such a way to incourage this. Granted the price of the GameCube may bring it out of impulse buy range for some, but I've personally bought things more expensive than that in less than 2 days thought, even 2 hours...I may be an idiot, according to you, but who cares, sometimes you just have to get IT right now.
"Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos." -Homer Simpson
Holy shit. If we all lived in the bourgeois luxury that you do, sure consoles would be better, and we'd buy a new system every freakin' year. However, even though computers are getting faster all the time, generally computers, and computer games last a lot longer than console games...so those that can afford to have a computer go with computer games instead of burning money for a whole new console system they'll throw away in a year.
Man, I just can't believe some techies out there. WTF do you do to have such disposable incomes? Or are you still burning through some foolish VCs wad?
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
I'm the kind of person who didn't believe Episode I was coming out until I purchased a ticket, so I'm not holding my breath.
After calling some local places and a Nintendo rep, I'm not so sure of this rumor either. As near as anyone I can talk to, it appears as though this is a rumor *only*. Most stores I've talked to *do* have Luigi's Mansion in, but they aren't allowed to sell them until the 18th.
If this does turn out to be true, I'd like someone to post a copy of the receipt/image of the box somewhere for proof. As near as I can determine...not yet.
Of course, I could be wrong.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
They threw every ship they had at them in the Wolf 359 region. It barely worked.
Lowmag.net
For example, the CPU in the Playstation2 is 300mhz and the graphics chip ~150mhz. The internal bus (inside the two processors) is 4096bits. The problem is that the overall PS2 bus is only 128bits, so you have a bottleneck which restricts performance. Dispite this, creative programming has shown that the PS2 is still very powerful and quite capable of delivering high-quality graphcs with only 4megs of video ram.
The Xbox CPU (which is a tweaked Pentium3 733) is faster than its 128bit counterpart (namely the GameCube's 128bit 485Mhz Gekko CPU) due to one factor: BRUTE FORCE.
One cpu is Risc and the other Cisc. While the P3's Cisc archetecture isn't nearly as efficient as the Gekko's Risc, it's been so heavily optimized over the last 20 years that it still performs quite well.
Also keep in mind that the Xbox has a 233mhz GeForce graphics chip.. while the GameCube has a 162mhz ATI "Flipper" chip (which is similar to the ATI Radeon). Benchmarks and software have proven that the GeForce is superior is most every way to the Radeon.
Thus one could surmise that the Xbox is indeed more powerful than the GameCube. However, the same could be said that both are more powerful than the PS2, yet PS2 games continue to get more and more impressive as the programmers push the hardware.
My feeling is this... we're going to see the performance limitations of the Xbox and GameCube much sooner in their lifespans than the PS2. Yes, the GC and Xbox will show their superiority (over PS2) in a year or so.. but I feel that you aren't going to see the big improvements from first, to second, to third generation software on GC and Xbox that has been witnessed on PS2.
In the end, however, all the benchmarks and numbers don't mean jack if the games suck.
Don't judge each console soely on numbers.. buy the one that has the games you like most.
Microsoft has never released a successful product on the try.
On the other hand, they are remarkable capable of throwing money at a bad solutions endlessly so that by about version 3, they have a successful (not necessarily a high-quality) product that gives them a monopoly.
Nosce te Ipsum
you also forgot one really important thing.
Console games NEVER run at higher resolutions than 724X468 at 16 bit color.
The television cannot display anything higher than that resolution. So take that Old ATI Rage pro 128 and it now has a screaming performance at that tiny resolution... Many gamers set their PC to 1600X1200 for display size causing the video card to strain to display the 5X more information for no reason.
when you can keep people from changing settings that only impact performance for no real benifit you can really squeeze some amazing things out of the machine.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
You can do splitscreen mulitplayer on a computer too.. it just isn't as commonly done, why? because it SUCKS. Who wants to squint to see a tiny corner of a screen? At least on a computer, your little corder can be at high resolution.. I can't understand how anyone can deal with using a television for anything.. especially games.
TI was being nasty relative to their competitors, most of whom had open systems.
But, I suspect it's only a matter of a year or two until you see real $300 "Wintendo" boxes based on the IBM AT architecture that hook up to your TV. That is, unless Microsoft plays some nasty OEM tricks.
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Loki didn't port Quake3, they only distribute it. ID Software did the linux port.
;)
Games on console don't always come out as finished as you may think. They are certainly playable, but there are sometimes games with bugfixes and revisions of games you are just not aware of.. of course they are not patchable, you need to purchase a new copy. If you look on rom/emulation pages you may notice that some games have 4-5 versions due to bug fixes or additional features.
TV big, XGA screen better. Televisions suck, they may be big.. but it is very difficult to stare at.
It isn't the computer's fault that there aren't more RPGs for them
Please explain to us how violence makes a game "adult" or mature. Seriously, I truly want to know. I suppose that if you're with the MPAA or ESRB, then violence makes a work of entertainment mature, but otherwise I don't get it. To me, the "adult gamer" brand of bloodthirstiness is a mark of the kind of "maturity" that begins and ends at age 14.
-jacob
Computer hardware is cheaper then consoles these days.. well, the monitors are expensive.. but not much more then televisions are. Sure, you need twice the equipment so it may be a little more.. but at least you don't go blind trying to play a game existing in an extremely low resolution screen corner.
After playing Quake on the internet, I am unable to play any split-screen game existing on a low resolution television. This isn't even getting into the fact that a FPS game on a console is completely impossible (no mice)
Console game are free too if you steal them.
What's the difference?
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
The Gamecube's CPU is only 64-bit, not 128-bit, but has a 128-bit wide internal bus to allow all internal processing units full access to the RAM simultaneously, so you can claim 128-bit.
Gamecube's CPU also has single-cycle execution of all functions, meaning that every cycle, one instruction is being finished. The Pentium 3, on the other hand, does not have guaranteed cycle-execution, and typically can have 12 or more cycles.
It's like people touting off horsepower for a cars performance. Well, a Semi truck has more horsepower than my friends RX-7, but I'd wager that the RX-7 can beat a stock tractor-trailer truck in a drag race.
Now, someone else said that the Art-X GPU in the Gamecube is similar to the ATI Raedon. BZT! It was designed by Art-X, which was later purchased by ATI. It has zero, nada, nothing in common, since Art-X had no knowledge of the internals of the Raedon. I've used Art-X's PC chipset before, it's not great IMHO, but it did have more features than GeForce *and* Raedon.
(and can someone please sue nVidia for false advertising that they created the concept of a GPU, as the Atari Jaguar had a GPU a full 3 years before the nVidia company was even formed!)
PS2 has some incredible graphic, violent, adult games
A have always thought the concept of graphic violence as an "adult" theme way laughable. That seems more like a concept teenage boys would like. If you really are mature, do you *actually* play video games rated "M for mature"?
I (as an adult) enjoy the flavor of Nintendo games as inoffensive escapism. Mario and Zelda are safe enough that me, my mom, and my kids can play together. Software shouldn't have to contain copious amounts of blood and nudity to escape the "just a kids game" label.
I have crashed Gauntlet Legends on the N64, repeatedly and reliably. I can reproduce the bug at will. Just throw a potion on a screen where there is already a potion and you get some kind of divide by 0 error or something and the game crashes. I've done it dozens of times.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
Just the opposite, in fact. It's since become abandonware, server programs are freely available, and some smart folks have created a new freeware client called Continuum. It's still going strong. :)
much like when Sega started selling the saturn 3 months early back in '95.
:)
We all saw how well THAT worked!
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
I just came back from a spree of hitting all of the stores nearby (I work near a major mall in Atlanta, so I was able to hit them all on my lunch break.) Most of them laughed at me when I asked, except for the Walmart. Now, I'm not too sure if the guy was BS'ing me or not, but he said they were selling some (it was rumored they were at another store) but once they heard the story was posted here they stopped selling them voluntarily, so they would still have some leftover for the official launch on Sunday.
First time I've ever heard of the Slashdot Effect on a brick and mortor store, that's for sure.
The PC makes a great platform
Speaking as a game programmer, I have a great sympathy for people who buy a PC for home use and want to play games on it. It's tough just to figure out which games will work on your machine, then you have to deal with patches, video driver updates, video bios updates, and so on. And even then you can end up with a game with serious graphic glitches. Tech support responds with "Do you have the latest video drivers?" but you already do. It turns out that there's only a problem with a certain video/sound/motherboard combo which your PC happens to have. And this is _typical_. Then six months later a game comes out that you have to upgrade your video card for, but when you do some of your old games stop working.
I don't know how people deal with this, I really don't.
I agree with your post except for this point:
Games on the PC are easy to make - anyone with a graphics toolkit and a few thousand dollars can make one, and just because you have big names behind it (John Romero) doesn't mean it'll be any good (Daikatana).
The average budget for a PC game is well over a million dollars. Probably over two million. Games like Daikatana, games that disappoint horribly, cost *millions* to make. So you're wrong on this point.
I dunno. Maybe it's just me. Maybe it's because I'm older than 12. But do gorwn adults actually enjoy playing all of the damned Mario/Luigi, and Pokemon games that are produced for Nintendo? It seems like all of the games are designed for little kids.
Well duh. That's Nintendo's market, and it always has been. More specifically, Nintendo's market is everyone *except* for teenagers going through the "I don't want none of that kiddie stuff; I want dark and edgy with lots of gore" phase. It is always amusing to hear kids who spent years playing Nintendo games suddely start berating them when they turn 14. Then when they hit 25 or so they realize "Hey, those games really *were* pretty fun after all."
To them, XBox might look "cool" rather than "ugly", and the games are certainly more oriented their way. Have you seen the recent ads for Dead or Alive 3?
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
I already have the two (actually I have 6) computers, so buying a console would be wasting my money...
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
Well, I for one am a very good programmer, worth what I earn, working for a company that does quality work and is in the black, because I bothered to make myself into an intelligent, highly skilled person instead of riding the dot-com bubble and hyping low-value skills to pipe-dreaming idiots. I avoided the dot-com gold rush, stuck to a sensible, though high, salary, and haven't spent huge amounts of money on unneeded luxuries. I have computers and consoles and a (27 inch) nice TV in the middle of a decent entertainment center and a living room equipped with surround sound, the cost of which is offset by the fact that some components are the property of my two roomies, who, like me, are young and college educated and have a realistic world view... I have a few other luxuries, which I only indulge in with forethought toward the costs. My kitchen is well equipped, as I am an amateur chef who could have gone pro if I wasn't a techie, and my bedroom has an assortment of very nice rosewood and mohagany furniture that I have purchased from estate sales and painstakingly restored, something I take great pleasure in. A tall chest contains a (very modest) collection of comics... I spend less than ten dollars a week on that habit... and there are two shelves (hand made, and shaped on my lathe) of books going around the top eighteen inches of my room. Most, though not all, of the books were purchased used, as I wear them out rereading them anyway. One wall only has one shelf, twice as tall, and it is stocked with hardcovers, programming references, and physics texts, which I do bother to read and reread to keep my skills from going stale. I keep other such "luxuries" around... a good set of weights and bench (and a gym membership, lifetime, 24 hour fitness), blades and outrigger canoeing gear and mountainclimbing gear, a cartoonist's drafting board (I used to be an editorial cartoonist) and artist's easel (hand carved, because they overcharge for the things otherwise), all of which I've made sure paid for themselves, one way or another... and I save away a lot of my income for the future. I don't buy sports cars or the latest fastest computer. I even take public transit as much as is reasonably convenient. My computers are good enough for my needs... ViaVoice and the latest Codewarrior and Office and Painter on the mac, which handles OS X just fine, and has benefited from a few upgrades using bare parts, and MSVS on the PC (Win2K), which is pretty low end, relatively, because it's not a primary machine, and a well souped up Linux box, without anything fancy for graphics, because I use it mostly for testing server apps... but most things I buy, I use for something that covers the cost, and then feel no guilt for hobby use in the aftermath. So what use the consoles? Not much, but someday I'm planning on entering the MMPOG development world with my own company (and ask the industry folks, my email will be familiar), and I like to know the capacities of potential target platforms. And besides, I've managed my life well, I have no debts and a good income, and I don't ever spend money I can't easilly afford. So in a few months, I may spend $200 on a Game Cube (no X-Box for now, not at $300) and a bit on some games...
And it won't come out of the money I'm slowly putting away to buy a property and build a house on it (or to build a house on the property that my grandfather owns on the north shore of oahu, and has told me he wants me to build on), or the money that I'm putting into retirement funds, or the emergency fund, or the emergency (for my family, eg parents and brother) fund, or the auto repair fund... no, it's coming out of the (much smaller) luxury fund. And that's WTF I have such disposable income. And you know what? If I ever decide that there's a woman worth partnering with, I'm prepared for the expenses that will entail. Not that I expect to find someone worthy who isn't as prepared for life as I am, but I take no chances. Why? I was a boy scout. I'm a skilled techie, and I'm very, very intelligent. I don't really care about being rich, just prepared. And my parents have set up a very decent life on much less income than I have, bought their own property and turned it from a baren plot of dirt and rock and scrubgrass to a seven figure valued estate on Maui, and provided well enough for my brother and myself (I paid for my own college, but they prepared me for life well enough that I could do so and succeed, and they, and I, are helping my brother through his), and I was fortunate enough to have their example to work from. And most of all, I'm sensible about life. I like to think that I picked up a bit of my grandparents' practicality, that got my mom's parents out of the third world plantations of Haleiwa and my dad's father through the pogroms of russia and his mother through a military career in the second world war. I like to think that I wasn't seduced by the empty dreams and easy promises of the me too credit card generation. Whatever the case, I also like to think that any competant programmer with a little restraint and a practical worldview could do the same... because whatever else you say about me, trust me, I did not "get lucky". I've dodged more bullets, by the skin of my teeth and the strength of my brains and body, than I care to think about, and not a one by luck alone. I've had nothing handed to me, inherited no money, fleeced no fools, and slept with no sugar mommies. I've given back, to my family, my communities, my friends, my teachers, in energy, in time, in money, in care. And when I choose to get a console or two as well as a computer, it is not a light whim to blow more cash, but it is not the heaviest decision I will make that day, either, because by not making such choices lightly, without thinking ahead, I've ensured that I can make them without significant consequence, save perhaps one less extravagant dinner party that month (so I'll prepare an indian or indonesian feast instead of french or pacific rim this friday... and the next few, why not? I learn as much practicing thai as tahitian, and the ingredients are cheaper... not that I don't find the best rates on even the highest quality ingredients, but still, foie gras and truffles or fresh vanilla beans and conch cost more than holy basil and kafir limes) and a little more time before my next luxury purchase, which I would probably have postponed anyway... actually, I think I've got five or six months worth of luxury fund sitting untouched right now, though I might use some of it for a trip to visit this girl I met (why are all the really interesting ones so far from home?) and possibly postpone the console (or not, I'd have plenty of money left in that fund...) for a few more months. Not like I'd play it that much (but an hour of unwinding a week is certainly worth a few hundred dollars...) with all the things I'm doing.
-- Still waiting for the Nike endorsement
The two points were separate, I should have made that more clear.
The average budget is well over a million, but there's lots of low-budget crap out there (and low-budget quality, to be fair).
I suppose the point of my post was that console gaming (at least, for most consoles) is more 'elitest', at least in the case of Nintendo. There aren't as many 'Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen' and 'Spice World' games on the N64 as there are on the Playstation or PC. At least, if there are, I haven't seen them.
--Dan
The bottom line is that Nintendo themselves has always been able to dish out at least one or two EXCELLENT games which are CLASSICS with each system. This can be directly attributed to the gameplay. Ignore the 'bloopy shit'. It doesn't matter. It's better than playing with a bunch of bounding boxes. :)
Actually, I think the consumer OEM Windows licence is something like $50 in volume. (Your UID is low enough that you might remember the Windows Refund hullabaloo that netted eMachines owners something like $29.)
It's only a matter of time until decent hardware is cheap enough - I'm just afraid that the OEMs would be scared that MS would cut their air supply for going up against the XBox. There's also the issue of customizing the desktop for TV displays and so on (which would be prohibited by MS's OEM terms).
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Yeah, right. Microsoft will put those other tiny companies right out of business. Which would be bad because, you know, Sony would never try to be a huge control-freak media monopoly.
By the way, where did you hear that Microsoft isn't getting royalties from third-party Xbox games? Or is that just your own conspiracy theory?
You're PC doesn't support racing a Nissan Skyline on a 16:9 TV in anamorphic widescreen mode. Nor does it support snowboarding in Alaska in DTS 5.1 surround sound in anamorphic widescreen.
My PS2 does!
PS - Plus, I don't have to worry about upgrading. But, I still have my PC for Wolfenstein.
I have a website. It's about Macs.
I dunno. Maybe it's just me. Maybe it's because I'm older than 12. But do gorwn adults actually enjoy playing all of the damned Mario/Luigi, and Pokemon games that are produced for Nintendo?
YES! Damnit! I'm a 23 year-old male and I love Pokemon, Mario, Luigi, and all these other "little kids" games.
I played the first Resident Evil, and it sucked on toast. Horrible gameplay, awful voice acting, and infurriating cut scenes while opening every fucking door showed me how little graphics mattered. Hell while I'm at it I'll say that I thought most of the games for the PS1 were fucking horrible and unplayable with few, notable exceptions ("Wipeout"). That is the reason I never purchased one.
And won't buy the PS2.
Faster CPU does not a better game system make.
Remember that. Who cares about cycles per second if you aren't having fun?
I am buying the GameCube for the games, because that's what it is designed to do. It's not just a PC in cool wrapping. I really think the harddrive in the XBox is going to be its downfall, because that allows sloppy programming that has gotten Microsoft into so much trouble; release it quickly and just patch it later...
Nintendo knows you cannot do that, so the games have to be perfect before they ship. Much better eye towards QA, IMHO.
--- witty signature
I like the idea of putting a CD/DVD in the game box, and pressing one buttton. It works first time, every time.
Well, most of the time. The first time you play DOA3 on the XBox, you'll have to wait 5 to 10 minutes for it to copy drivers (I assume for the controller) and some other files over to a cache on the hard drive. Then you actually have to reboot the thing. No joke.
All of that is 100% fact. I also heard (but am not entirely sure about) that the XBox cache can hold "up to" 20 games. So if you buy a lot of games and a year from now decide to play DOA3, which you haven't played in months, you may have to go through that install again.
Keep in mind that not all games do this, and I'm not really sure about the cache, but still, a five to ten minute install and a reboot on a console kinda blows. I suppose MS would claim that it's innovation, though.
My other
That is a very good question. I think that it will moderately hurt nintendo's sales, but I think it will improve their software per system sales. If every system is sold at a loss that may be more important. Also I think you will find more developers siding with the GC if they think it will be less pirateable.
I think it will be a give and a take.
Well, I got a bet going on how fast I can burn off karma. I did pretty good on this one.
--Charlie
Um, I suspect most of these "cheap and small" things are more expensive than any two nodes on my network. I can get PC-compatible hardware cheap or free (all my hubs were free, most of my monitors under $20) and they all run FreeCiv just fine.
--Charlie
IIRC, Sega began selling its ill-fated Saturn in a surprise, early release before the PlayStation debuted in the U.S. They did this at least in selected markets, because I bought one in Philadelphia the day they went on sale (I really liked Virtua Fighter). It could be argued that Sega, then a reigning home-system champ with the Genesis, was nervous about a newcomer and wanted to grab a market foothold.
Seems like Nintendo is now the nervous incumbent, trying to grab the bucks of people dying for a next-gen system and willing to buy the first one that comes out, and who will be unable to afford to buy a competitor's subsequently-released system.
~Philly
* "lite" as in diet. As in, you're not going to use your xBOx to create your own mods. You're not going to set up your own xBOx server for public deathmatches. etc.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Reason #1: Controls
... and on and on. These are all games from genres that still have not translated well over to the console. You can't pull off something on a console that requires any kind of controls more complex than up, down, left right, b, a, start. Keyboards and mice (!) are so much more condusive to ease of use and intuitivity of interface.
The reason most PC gamers don't own joypads is because PC gamers have long since matured past the simple platform jumper game style that consoles are so condusive to. The reason you don't see Mario64 on the PC isn't because of the lack of controlers to support it, but rather because most PC gamers have no interest in mindless platform-jumping games any more. Besides, speaking from experience, I use Project64 to emulate my old N64 games at higher resolutions and higher framerates on my PC, and the controls (keyboard) have never been a problem for me.
When I want to play a game, I want the most intuitive, powerful controls I can get. Thus far, the keyboard (100 or more buttons!) + mouse combination seems to work best.
Reason #2: Gameplay
If you like FPSs or strategy games, stick to the PC.
While console games do offer more choices than just simple platform-jumpers and fighting games, the range of genres simply isn't there. And when other genres try to move to the console, the control issue pops up. FPS, RPGs (Final Fantasy is not an RPG), MMORPGs, MUD/MUCK/MUSH/MOOs, RTS, TBS, sports games, puzzle games, and yes, even platform-jumpers are all available to PC gamers. On a computer you can play the Quake series, the Need for Speed series, the Diablo series, the Baldur's Gate series, the Myth series, the Rainbow Six series, the Unreal series, the Descent series (Freespace, too), the Myst series, the Tribes series, MS Flight Simulator, the Ultima Series, Elite Force, Half-Life, Deus Ex, Age of Empires, Homeworld, Starcraft
Reason #3: Audience
Only a few PC game companies, like Blizzard, have a large enough audience to justify multi-million-dollar budgets.
One of the things my English teacher always stated was that when you assert something you need to answer the question "So what?"
So what? So, as you say "only a few PC game companies" have huge budgets (somehow I doubt that's true). So what? What does that mean? Are you implying that low-budget operations can't produce hugely wonderful games? Well, since there are quite a few very great games out for the PC that come from various great companies (Bioware, Raven, id, Blizzard, Ion Storm, Monolith, Red Storm, Lucasarts, Gearbox, Legend, Croteam, Bethesda, etc) and by your statement "only a few" developement houses can afford to spend lots of money on games, one of two things has to be true: either you're wrong, and great number of companies DO have multi-million dollar budgets to spend on game developement; or you're wrong in your implication, and having a large budget has nothing to do with making a great game. Either way, you're still wrong.
Reason #4: Graphics
Console games look better, despite the fact that PCs are more powerful.
When they first come out, yes. This is true. (PC gamers who disagree, shut up, you know it's true; the XBox is glorious). But what happens when 6-12 months from now graphics on computers are on par or better than these presently new consoles? Unless you're a Playstation gamer who upgraded to a PS2, none of your old games carry over to a new system, so when M$ releases the XBox^2 in 2-3 years, you may not have a library of games ready for you yet. But PC games always look and play better on a new system. That's the rule. So while PCs are upgrading (I upgrade mine twice a year, usually at $100 a pop, but see my Counterpoint #1 for an explaination of why this is a justifiable expense for me. Either way, 6 months from now the PC will be on par with the XBox. Gawd help us a year from now.
Furthermore, graphics are a subjective thing... but when I run Zelda64 at 1024x768 @ 60FPS in 32 bit colour on my 21 inch monitor, I get goosebumps. Quake III STILL sends shivers down my spine. And the new games coming out for Christmas are even scarier in their detail. Try that with your TV and its pithy resolutions and low colour depths.
Reason #5: Experience
Most people I know don't have surround sound systems. Most people I know only have a DVD player for their computer. Most people I know have 19" monitors or larger.
I have a highback, Italian-leather executive chair that I got when I first built my PC. I have an Ottoman beside me right now. I have a Soundblaster audio card and two sets of speakers (two subs, for satellites) that give me over 700 watts of sound, 200 of which is bass. Yes, I get true surround sound. I have a DVD player. I also download DivX movies. I have a 21" monitor. My roomate and I are going to bring a couch down next quarter. My multi-media experience is excessive (and probably every bit as nice as what you can get with your own setup).
Reason #6: Party Gaming
Both console "parties" and LAN parties are niche events. But answer me this: when have you ever had a console party where more than 4 people played at once? Ever been to one with, I don't know, say 200 people playing all at once? Or even just 64? 32? LAN parties are insane, just because of the number of people playing at once. Even with 32 people in one game, you've exceded the console potential by 8 times. LAN parties are an experience. And the nice thing about multi-play (which you conveniently glossed over) on a PC is that you don't have to have your friends in the room to play. If I feel like playing a little Tribes 2 at 3am on a Monday night I can usually find a match online. It's not the same as playing in person, but it's better than playing by yourself. Try THAT with a console.
PC Counterpoint #1: Multipurpose Machine
PCs are not just designed for one purpose. They have MANY purposes. One of which is video games. Another of which is Internet browsing. Another of which is art work. Yes, the wonderful PC, which so many people in America own (it has a broader installed user base than any console you can name). Well, for the price of a relatively cheap upgrade, you can be set to play games on your system for the next 2 or 3 years. And since this cheap upgrade will increase the performance of other applications you run, you're obviously getting more bang for your buck. If I'm going to spend $1800 on a system for Internet access and word processing and such, why not spend $2100 or $2200 and get a sweet gaming system? Don't tell me it doesn't happen every day.
Also, I'm an artist. I'm an art student, learning 3D animation and film/video work. Why in the world would I want to spend an extra $300 on a console? I've spent the last 3 years tweaking my machine to perfection; I've spent nearly $4000 and hundreds of man hours on this bad boy. Why whore myself out to Ninetendo or Microsoft? I'm sticking with what I have and what will play my old (and new) games.
PC Counterpoint #2: Demoing Games
www.fileplanet.com
www.download.com
www.gamespot.com
Any game company with common sense offers a free demo of its game. I can procure any one of these, for free, over the internet. That way I get to sample the game and decide if it is for me. Try getting that for your console.
Oh, and don't tell me you need high speed net access. I still, to this day, download that stuff using Getright on a 56k connection.
PC Counterpoint #3: Replay Value
I just beat Quake III on the hardest difficulty. I know all the maps that shipped with the game by heart. I guess I'll just have to buy a new game.
Half-Life is almost 3 years old. No one plays that any more!
Is there ANY quality content out there for Star Craft?
Serious Sam is SOOOO hard to make levels for!
PC game companies are SOOO closed, they NEVER release developement kits or anything! What? No, I don't have a copy of the Half-Life SDK in my hand! No, Valve never mailed that to me personally when they first released it! No, I've NEVER had any contact with the developers!
/me switches out of sarcasm mode.
Face it. PC games are the king of replay value. You just can't beat them. Once you buy a PC game, you are (usually) buying several years of entertainment. And, if you're like me, you're also buying the right to make mods and levels for your favourite games in this bunch. I used to design sequels to Mega Man when I was 10, just because I loved that so much. But now I actually CAN make things for my games. You just simply can't top that.
Conclusion:
Both of the solutions (PCs, consoles) have their strengths, but for me, PCs simply can't be beat. There is almost nothing a console can do that a PC can't do as well or better. It's a personal choice, but for me there are too many more reasons to go PC than console, so in the end, PC gaming rules the day.
I'm not buying an XBox, or a Gamecube, or a PS2. The only situation that MIGHT cause me to buy an XBox is a pricetag of $200 that comes bundled with HALO. That, I would consider buying, and only if they DO NOT release HALO for the PC. =)
And that's all I have to say about that.
~Aaron
student of animation and the fine arts
In that case that makes the X-Box try #2. Microsoft's first shot at the console market was the MSX machine from the 80's... which was somewhat successful everywhere except the US, oddly enough.
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
I will buy a gamecube the very day that a street date for a Conker game is announced.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Don't you know what an XBOX is?
It is an at based computer, fool! Geforce 3 (approximately), hard drive, P3 733mhz processor.
And it runs DirectX!
It's basically the Wintendo, and everybody knows it and is fine with it. Certainly it must be easier for developers...
Did you buy the PlayStation? It supported LAN parties with it's link cable.
The model of PlayStation being sold today (PSone, the one that looks like the console a Precious Moments person would use) lacks a link port. Even then, the old PlayStation link cable supported only two players.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I think it is just you. Graphic and violent games are for my little brother -- I've outgrown that now and I want to play games that are fun, thoughtful, and beautifully designed. Hell, I don't even care about polygon count if the games are fun. I'm currently having a blast with my GBA and I can't wait for the GameCube...
What about Internet gaming? It would be no problem for me to get seven friends with at least a 17" monitor and a permanent Internet connection.
What if you and your friends live in an area that doesn't get cable modem service or DSL service? In that case, you would have to spend upwards of $200,000 per family to pack up and move to an area that offered high-speed connections. I'd rather pay $1000 for two 25" TVs, two N64 systems, six extra controllers, and two copies of Super Smash Bros. than $1.6 million to upgrade everybody to DSL.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I think I'll take a lesson from your English teacher and rebut your rebuttal with a big ol' "So what?"
... why do you have an emulator on your system so that you can play them?
...the range of genres simply isn't there [on consoles].
... what? Are you seriously suggesting that PCs have broader genre support than consoles? Okie dokie. I guess I'll go up to my PC and fire up a game of Dance Dance Revolution, and after that I'll play a good old light gun shooter like House of the Dead. Then, when I get tired of that, I'll play an RPG adventure, maybe something along the lines of Shenmue. Then how about a little old school platforming action like Mario 64 ... or maybe the newer Super Monkey Ball. Luigi's Mansion has a great PC equivalent, too. I just have no idea what it is.
It is a simple fact that consoles are much, much more popular than PCs for games. No amount of argument can change the numbers.
I offered an explanation of why that might be the case. You fire back with a bunch of "Nuh-uh! PCs rulez!"
I answer: "So what?" There are obviously a lot more people that agree with me than agree with you, and in the end it's just a numbers game.
I still can't resist the temptation to counter these points, though...
#1: The reason you don't see Mario64 on the PC isn't because of the lack of controlers to support it, but rather because most PC gamers have no interest in mindless platform-jumping games any more
You damn yourself out of your own mouth. Firstly, Mario 64 was hailed as The Greatest Game of All Time by a number of publications when it was released, which I think speaks to the "mindless platform-jumping" and "no interest" bit. Secondly, if you've outgrown these sorts of games
#2:
Bwuhhh
#3: So, as you say "only a few PC game companies" have huge budgets (somehow I doubt that's true).
No, I'm not 'implying' it, I'm stating it fucking outright. There are a bare handful of PC game companies which make serious money or can afford serious development. Console developing is infinitely more lucrative because the audience is bigger. Sure, I won't argue that games don't always need huge budgets to be successful, but the idea of something like Shenmue or Zelda being developed for the PC instead of a console is laughable. I like having my AAA+ titles, thank you very much, and much as I love Blizzard and Bioware I'd take Nintendo's efforts over theirs most days.
#4: blah blah blah computers are better
I don't know what market you're talking about, but most computers are four or five years old. Real people (i.e. not computer people) don't upgrade twice a year, or even once every two years. They run the old computer into the ground and then buy a new one which is already behind the times. That's just the way it goes. Most people still don't have computers which can render what the Dreamcast can, and that's two years old. Hell, I don't have a single game on my PC which looks as good as Soul Calibur, and I have a GeForce.
#5: Most people I know don't have surround sound systems. Most people I know only have a DVD player for their computer. Most people I know have
19" monitors or larger.
Wow, you must only associate with computer geeks. Every single person I hang out with has a surround sound system and DVD player, nobody but me has DVD on their computer, and fewer than half of them have 19" monitors.
blah blah blah my computer is awesome
Fine and dandy. Do you think that even remotely reflects the average person's experience? I work with computers and pull a six figure salary, and yet my computer only has stereo speakers because I don't really give a crap about it. I sunk the money into my entertainment system instead, and there are a lot more people doing that than adding surround sound to their computers.
Reason #6: Party Gaming
blah blah blah I love PCs
Fine, you're a PC gamer. I never tried to convert you -- I'm merely offering explanations for the fact that consoles are ten times as popular for gaming.
I don't give a rat's ass if you prefer PCs for gaming. Most of the rest of the world doesn't, and it sounds like you have a serious case of denial. I agree that some things about PC games are awesome -- I'm looking forward to Neverwinter Nights and Warcraft III as much as the next guy. However, 90% of the games I buy are for consoles, and that's pretty representative of typical behavior.
ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck
Ah, but the X-box ISN'T Microsoft's first try at putting together graphics development. Talisman immediately comes to mind, for example. And we've all seen how far Direct3D has come in five or six years.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Mario Party 3?
You answered your own question. Sometimes games such as Super Smash Bros. that use proprietary characters create more Fun than games such as q3a.
As for games *never* being available for the PC, that's what MS is trying to do with the Xbox
Will MS make a smash bros. clone? What about a mario party clone? What about multiplayer tetris (no, a port of the old 16-bit Windows Entertainment pack doesn't count) or dr. mario?
As far as head-to-head, uhhh how are you connected and reading slashdot? After all, /. requires readers have a pc and a internet connection too.
Some of us read Slashdot at a public library, and I don't think many libraries would take too kindly to patrons coming in and connecting their Xboxen or bringing q3a CDs.
3. Are the 6 people going to pitch in and help pay for the console?
Yes. Sometimes, especially with the under-18 crowd, four children pool their allowances toward a console and games.
Again, my point is that the console isn't worth one or two games.
Unless the child labor laws mandate that you be poor.
Will I retire or break 10K?
And, even better, the new consoles are also DVD players, so with one box in your living room, you can play games, watch movies, and listen to music, and none of the boxes are more complicated than having a "power" and a "reset" button.
I just purchased an ati all-in-wonder radion card. I pluged a computer into my big screen tv and the cat-5e I ran through my walls during construction. So with one box in my living room, I can play games (mame looks great), watch movies, listen to mp3s, and watch to dvds. Oh, I can also use my machine as a digital vcr, I record tv shows and convert them to divx later. I can surf, burn CDs, schedule things for recording, watch divx movies over the lan, and post to slashdot. All this from a pII-450 with not enough memory which was previously collecting dust.
Oh and by the way, I have the dreamcast version of quake 3. It doesn't have the equivelent of "invert mouse" so the game is basically useless for me. I'd also like to see you play age of empires with your ps2.
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
Unless you're a Playstation gamer who upgraded to a PS2, none of your old games carry over to a new system, so when M$ releases the XBox^2 in 2-3 years, you may not have a library of games ready for you....
You want to play your old games?!?!?
DON"T THROW AWAY YOUR OLD CONSOLE!!!!
Computers are a one-person thing. Two people is sometimes possible, but usually a stretch.
When your living room comprises your entire world, this is true. Those of us that have access to the outside world can use networks to play games on a mind boggling scale. AND we can connect 'em locally from 2 to 200 people.
If you narrow the scenario down to a hypothetical "But what about when you have exactly 3 people, on a couch, in the living room, looking at a TV?", then you can rationalize the console as a better platform. But then you've narrowed yourself down to a rare situation (what percentage of overall console play-time is multiplayer in real life? 5% if you're lucky.), and you've ignored a million greater possibilities.
There are also *NO* Bridge Builders or Elastomanias for the N64, and there will never be. Because it's too risky to bet the up-front cost of console development on an unusual concept.
This is one of the best arguments in favor of buying an X-Box I've heard. The Dreamcast is the only platform where publishers had the balls to release some of the way-out Japanese games in the US (Samba de Amigo, Bangaioh, Rival Schools etc).
The DC was doing very well in the US and Europe (sold more units on launch than the Saturn did in its entire run) but sales were sluggish in Japan.
Although the US and Europe were bringing in all the money, SEGA of Japan was very tight with SEGA of America's purse strings (they were only allowed to do big ad campaigns for 'major games' like Shenmue and Sonic Adventure 2.)
They also wasted a ton of money on licensing Ferarri F355 Challenge for the US market because it was a Yu Suzuki game, although it was such a rigid simulation it was doomed to failure in the US, and everyone knew it. Games like Jet Set Radio, Samba De Amigo, and Phantasy Star Online didn't get the ad space they needed to reach a respectable audience. AFAIK, the only reason SEGA's so chummy with Microso~1 is for free advertising.
So...I hate Microso~1, and I won't be buying an X-box, but it would be nice to have a competitor to Sony and Nintendo that would put pressure on Japanese companies to bring more games over.
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
#1: Mario 64 was hailed as The Greatest Game of All Time ... when it was released ...
... why do you have an emulator on your system so that you can play them?
... the idea of something like Shenmue or Zelda being developed for the PC ... is laughable
... One might sell more, but check the quality. People have a habit of buying an inferior product if it's marketed better (*cough*Windows*cough*)
... However, 90% of the games I buy are for consoles, and that's pretty representative of typical behavior.
;)
Evidence? Nintendo Power? Gamepro? Give me a break. Everyone has learned to take those articles with a brick of salt. Ditto for PC publications, who continue to acclaim Half-Life as The Greatest Game of All Time. Whatever. There is no such thing. Besides, you speak of the days when PCs were coming into their prime.
Secondly, if you've outgrown these sorts of games
Because Miyamoto Shigeru is a god, and because Zelda64 is hands down the best adventure game I've ever played. Also, because my N64 is getting old (blowing on cartridges is a bitch and a half), and the games run better on my PC than they do on my N64.
#2: "... I'll play an RPG adventure, maybe something along the lines of Shenmue."
Yeah, I saw that; it brought back memories of the days of Elderscrolls: Daggerfall or -- more recently -- Ultima IX. Personally, I'm waiting for Elderscrolls III: Morrowwind. That way I can expand on what the game shipped as, by making my own stuff or downloading other people's work.
#3:
You're saying you can't have epics on the PC? Bullshit. Elderscrolls III: Morrowind; Baldur's Gate 2; Neverwinter Nights; Dungeonsiege; Fallout; Deus Ex. Or how about a game recognized by and played by millions? Doom. Microsoft Flight Simulator. Half-Life. Everquest. Myst.
But I'll say this: The idea of something like Asheron's Call or Everquest being developed for the console is laughable. Consoles weren't designed for MMORPGs (which, I admit, I don't play; I prefer their infintely more creative textual ancestors, MUDs/MUCKs/MUSHs/MOOSs that you can play on any PC with a modem, period). Sure, a MMORPG might have been released for a console, but I can't even recall the title, and I don't know anyone who plays it; on the otherhand, millions of people know what Everquest is, and some even play it.
#4: blah blah blah computers are better
Terribly mature.
That's just the way it goes.
My summer job is in a computer shop; I build computers for people who have "run the old computer into the ground" and want a new system. Over the summer we found that: a) most people who were upgrading were doing so because the barebones machine they bought last year isn't up to their standards; b) many of these people were interested in the "phenomenon" of PC gaming; c) most of these people were willing to pay $1500-1700 to get a machine two-three times better than a $1200 machine. 90% of the systems I built had GeForce2's on them.
#5: Wow, you must only associate with computer geeks.
Insults do not an argument make, grasshopper. Ignoring that, most of my associates are fellow college students, like myself. We're real people on real bugdets with real space constraints. And we're also the real people that make up a sizable chuck of the target demographic. If we can purchase computers that essentially do everything, we both: a) save the cost of a TV, DVD player, surround sound system, console game system, cable bill (no one has time for TV), and a stand for all of this. Say that ammounts to $1000, in total. In its place we purchase a $1800 system (and a desk for it) that plays games, has a surround sound system, a DVD player, and all that great stuff (I can name at least 4 people who did this, none of them computer geeks) We spent the extra $700, but we needed to buy the computer anyway (internet access, email, reports, etc), so really we saved a few bucks. Also, we don't have to find spaces to put all of that extra stuff; we have it all in our computer. Floorspace saved. It's practical. It's easy for the average consumer to understand.
blah blah blah my computer is awesome
Relative to my peer's systems, it's actually pretty average (950 Duron, GeForce2, 256MB SDRAM) but it still cranks out sweet graphics. I'm getting a GeForce III this Christmas, bit of a splurge, but I've held out for it. Just wait for HALO; compare the XBox version to the PC version
#6:blah blah blah I love PCs
Gloss over the LAN party argument, don't even grant me a conciet; that's fine, we both know who made the better case.
Most of the rest of the world doesn't [care if you prefer PCs], and it sounds like you have a serious case of denial. I agree that some things about PC games are awesome -- I'm looking forward to Neverwinter Nights and Warcraft III as much as the next guy. However, 90% of the games I buy are for consoles, and that's pretty representative of typical behavior.
I certainly accept that most of the world uses consoles, but I certainly will not grant you that this makes them better. Again, refer to the Windows - Linux duel. Which is a superior product, and why? The same goes for PCs v. consoles. Simply put, the PC offers better opportunities to gamers, but it isn't going to ever be half as successful as consoles. Why? For the same reason Windows always beats Linux. It all comes down to the end user. Arguments like yours, where you ignore, trivialise, or ridicule the points given if they significantly hurt your argument (I notice you essentially ignored my three counterpoints, and made a "blah blah blah" case out of three of my rebuttals to your claims), people who resort to personal insult when they see their insecurities coming forth (I won't beat around the bush: your insecurity = the fact that you know, deep down inside, that I COULD be right; else why resort to personal attacks?) people who blindly accept that "because everyone uses it, it must be good," etc. All of that stuff keeps the gamer in question from experiencing the realisation of true gaming potential.
I'm looking forward to Neverwinter Nights and Warcraft III
No, really most people don't fit into that demographic (upper-middle class? upper class?). Most people fit into my demograpic, the lower-middle class, people with money to spend, but not much. Almost everyone I know puts their money into either consoles or PCs, not both. (side note: Every single Mac user I know is a console gamer) The majourity of these people are PC gamers, as a result.
~Aaron,
Going to play some Counterstrike, or some Threshold MUD, or some Serious Sam, or (most likely) to work on my finals
student of animation and the fine arts
Most of the people I know with Gameboy/GA Advance are adults. Then again, most of them are buying Gamecubes too...
I put it to you that most parents would shop at Walmart/Toys'R'Us & similar department stores, so they'll sell more Cubes, and I'd expect people working there to notice that. But places like EB will sell more XBoxen.
But, in the final analysis, who knows. Cheap & cute vs feature-laden & adult-oriented... still anyone's game, but you can't ignore the half-billion-dollar marketing budget behind the XBox...
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Nintendo designs many games that are fun, and enjoyable for the whole family. I loved playing Mario and Zelda when I was in 2nd. grade, and I still love playing Mario and Zelda.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
They're written for the pre-95 days.
-
Mario. Samus. Link. Falcon. Pikachu.
Sony hasn't won this one yet...
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
I don't know what your philosophy is like, and I'm not one to judge, but I would rather have 1 friend in my home with me than a thousand frag targets online.
Games (for me, anyway, and for others) aren't a friends substitute, they're a group activity. Games are no fun alone, and having someone's comments popping up at the top of the screen aren't the same as actually hearing them scream when you pop them off.
And besides, both the GameCube and the X-Box are internet capable OOB, so you can do BOTH with them - crowd some friends around your TV, and face off against someone else and their group of friends online.
Seems to me like you get the best of both words with the gamecube, but if you prefer sitting online alone to actually interacting with real people, that's your perogative.
--Dan
I've played master of magic for days at a time on Windows 2000, and I have since the day I loaded the first release candidate.
.pif all the way up.
I disabled sound inside the game - figured it'd cause problems - and pushed all the memory settings in the associated
Given the choice between having sound and not having MoM, I'll take the game.
Plays just fine in DOSemu, too (also without sound).
Also, there are a couple of interesting clone projects. See http://www.classicgaming.com/mom/momhack.html for more info.
-- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
Okay! Have a look at http://www.nintendogamecube.com - Nintendo themselves speak about the decision to base the GameCube on technical Requirements, not technical Possibilities.
;-)
The requirements are to provide developers with the tools required to develop gameplay focussed games. The tools required, sadly, by most PC games developers seems to be a huge polygon count and 100+ FPS.
Nintendo style games. I think most gamers will have a notion of what this means. When you play a Nintendo game it somehow feels different. Its like playing something by Sonic Team on Sega.
You may not have played enough Nintendo games to get this... but from NES, Gameboy through to N64 and GameCube there are certain constants which are more improtant than plumbers.
For that to be the dumbest thing you read all day you mustn't read a lot!
I figure, its only a matter of time before some bright monkey figures out the X-Box, and there is a lot of bright hardware monkeys and a lot of bright linux monkeys. Therefore, I'm guessing its just a matter of time before someone figures out how to throw linux on the thing, and do a few hardware upgrades (such as USB).
Once that happens, I have the perfect TV-top box that will support USB controls, run linux and have TV out. Then, I stick a ton of emulators on it (X-Mame, etc). The processor should be beefy enough for all but a few games.
I *really* want an X-box.
Get eight network cards for $30 each plus one hub for $20. Maybe you need some cabling for around $80, but that's it.
Plus $800 for each PC. Not every family can afford to lose use of the family PC for the duration of the LAN party.
That's a total of $340 plus one game (the others can use the spawn version I think)
Not all PC games have a spawn version.
Will I retire or break 10K?
There was a lot of talk about if Bungie would go to xbox only when they were bought by microsoft...
0 0/MacGamesPR.asp
a c.shtml
http://www.microsoft.com/PressPass/press/2000/Jul
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0007/20.halom
Bungie's promised Mac versions of Halo, but I haven't seen any definate promises of a PC version.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
/.
I'm not sure how to write URLs for dumpsters behind hospitals and large corporations. But here, I'll try:
http:://Your.house/like.your.mouth/full.of.crap
Big hospitals periodically throw out vast quantities of useful equipment. Most big corporations have a steady trickle of stuff getting thrown away.
I've occasionally gotten >1 GB HDDs this way, and I have a 3com 100bT hub also, but generally the stuff is a bit less current. Most of my nodes are P166mmx at this point which is fine for running FreeCiv or Civ II gold or Mechwarrior II but not sufficient for later releases of Mechwarrior.
Oh, I also picked up a crate full of unopened copies of Win95 - I still have a dozen or so since I don't use it myself, I just give it away. But usually you don't find software of any value.
This morning I picked up a big piece of ductwork from the side of the road which must've fallen off a truck. I'm going to use it to fix my furnace this weekend.
--Charlie