Digitally Notarized Documents in Brazil

Remote writes: "As of next year, Brazilians will be able to obtain notary-authenticated digital documents and have them sent over the Internet (English) . You can also obtain a CD or floppy from a notary office, containing your document encrypted with an assymetric key. The key generation, though, demands that one shows up in person at the notary office for ID verification. This was made possible by legislation that recognises public-key encrypted documents and signatures as legally valid. This is one first step, and I don't see why this wouldn't be applied to things like contracts, invoices, wills, etc. Brazilian Notary and Register Association claims that one can even print as many copies of, say, your driver license as desired, though I don't see how this part would work..."

Comments

With all these

[nervlord1]

With all these laws being passed left and right towards internet and computer related technologys, i cannot work out which bloody country is the most technology and freedom with technology friendly of them all. Germany used to be my favorite, but with the recent DNS mess, i really dont know Anyone have any comments on this?

Ummm...

[Anonymous Coward]

Turkey!

Re:Ummm...

[The Real Andrew]

You must have missed the First Turkey post but mere seconds. Try again next year, thank you for playing.

Re:Ummm...

[Anonymous Coward]

I got it. Thank you for meaningless comment. Try again next year.

Third Post

[Anonymous Coward]

But first Digital Brazilian !

froth pist

[Anonymous Coward]

I think I ate too much food... I'm going to hurl....

Anyone got any Alka Seltzer...?

URRRRRRRP.

Interesting topic

[Anonymous Coward]

..actually, on a second thought, who gives a fuck ?
You are being slashdottized, stop caring about bullshit !!

We started

[C0vardeAn0nim0]

discussing this technology almost 5 years ago.

unfortunatly we have here in brasil some of the best cracker in the world. sooner or later one of them will find a way to crack the digatal signatures.

The bad point is that the press don't know the diffence between "crackers" and "hackers", so as soon as the first digitaly signed forgery shows up, the brasilian press will start mudslinging hackers as the culprits.

it's about time we start a PR campaign to teach the public and the press about the diference.

Re:We started

[carlosjordao]

Yeah, of course... as if this tecnology _need_ to be used in Brazil to be cracked...

Worried

[Ricardo Lima]

I don't know, but as a brazilian, I'm quite worried about this. One thing is to digitally sign digital documents, but to sign digitally sign real documents and allow anyone to print them as authentic copies! This opens a large space to fraud! If I'm able to print a document, why couldn't I change it before I print it, for instance? And what would make this document that I printed in my computer a really authenticated copy? I sense a lot of frauds coming...

Re:Worried

[ralmeida]

If I'm able to print a document, why couldn't I change it before I print it, for instance?

I haven' read the article, because it's currently down. But I believe it works like this: you take your documents and they will be signed by the notary office -- you will receive a digitally signed document in a floppy or CD.

You can then send that copy through e-mail, e.g., or print it. You can still change it and print it, but the digital signature will be ruined. If a police officer check the validity of the document, he will se that it was changed.

Re:Worried

[jfonseca]

Os dois discutindo em inglês....

Re:Worried

[Ricardo Lima]

And how could the police officer validate the digital signature? He would only look at the printed paper and it would seem all right to him.

Digital signatures only work with digital documents. A digital signature is a hash of the entire document signed with a private key ( in this case the notary's key ). When you print the document, how could you check the signature? Should you scan it back so a computer could validate it again? How could you be sure that what I scanned would generate the same bits of the original? Actually, you can't! So we would always have a bad signature!

Re:Worried

[Ricardo Lima]

Pois é, né? Mas a "linguagem universal" do site é inglês. Se escrevermos em português, só nós nos entenderíamos.

(Translating)
Last message:
And both are arguing in english....

My message:
Indeed. But the site's "universal language" is english. If we wrote in portuguese, only we could understand.

Re:Worried

[Brazilian Geek]

Don't forget that we - 'zilians - are a society based on paper. I work for a bunch of burocreaps and despite my futile attempts at introducing them to the wonders of sending memos to other sectors via email or our intranet BBS those f*cks preffer to print the stuff out and hand them out.

This law won't work - it may have passed but it'll be ignored as most of our other laws are by TPTB. That's my prediction.

Re:Worried

[Ricardo Lima]

This is not a law, but a service that the notarians will provide.

Re:Worried

[ralmeida]

Perhaps the "printed" copy will be only a bar-coded document. All the "gambé" (police officer) has to do is scan the document. A display in the bar-code scanner could show your information and check the signature.

Anyway, just the possibility of sending documents in digital form through the internet makes it worth, IMO.

Re:Worried

[vidarh]

The signature can be made from the text of the document with whitespace removed. It can trivially be entered back into a computer and verified.

Obviously this wouldn't work anywhere where you would need to have a picture, or a representation of a handwritten signature. In that case you would need to be able to present a digital version of the document.

Re:Worried

[Ricardo Lima]

It would be a big barcode to keep all the info that we keep in a driver's license ( we should include the photo as well ). If you mean a bar code of the digital signature, than I could print the document, create a fake ID, cut the barcode from the original, paste in the fake ID ( that's physically cut & pasting! ), and make a copy of the new I.D. Voilà! A fraud!

As I said, digital signatures are for digital documents. The ability to be able to have my digital signature public and a way to represent me is nice, but this notarys should be REALLY SECURE to make this system work and I don't believe that they will be.

Re:Worried

[Ricardo Lima]

Like an id card or a driver's license. It would work for an elector's id, or the CPF ( note: it is a kind of IRS id, the closest we have for a Social Security Number ). Not very useful, IMHO.

My point is:

Digital signatures are designed to be used with digital documents. They do not work with printed ones. Period.

Re:Worried

[Deadplant]

I don't think they actually meant "print". It's an automated translation of a brazilian document.

It actually says "...will be able to print how many electronic copies to want of the document."
'print electronic copies' probably just means copy.
Micheal mis-interpreted it, and you guys probably didn't actually read it did you?

Re:Worried

[Ricardo Lima]

I am brazilian. I went to the site. They mean it when they say "print".

Re:Worried

[hotsauce]

Don't forget that we - 'zilians - are a society based on paper. I work for a bunch of burocreaps and despite my futile attempts at introducing them to the wonders of sending memos to other sectors via email or our intranet BBS those f*cks preffer to print the stuff out and hand them out.

I'm in the US and it's the same story. The number of trees we kill because of useless memos is unbelievable. To the Training Department: printing memos and schedules for Word and Excel training on brightly colored paper only lets me know which mail to throw away without looking.

Re:Worried

[swillden]

but this notarys should be REALLY SECURE to make this system work

Nah, the whole notion of notaries is quite bad from a security standpoint, whether the signatures are digital or not. Nearly anyone can become a notary, the only verification the notary verifies is your ID and the only thing he or she does is place a stamp and a signature on a piece of paper. Each step is vulnerable to fraud and forgery.

However, that's okay, because the purpose of a notary isn't to provide absolute, ironclad proof. The purpose is to provide evidence that can be weighed in court against all the other bits and pieces of evidence, including the sworn testimony of the notary. For example, by itself, a notarized will making you the sole heir of the Howard Hughes fortune would obviously get you nothing except maybe an indictment for forgery. Add to that the testimony of the notary and some evidence to show that you were in fact Howard's best buddy and that he'd often talked of giving his fortune to you and you might begin to have a case. OTOH, a notarized bill of sale showing that you paid your brother $1000 for his old stereo would be all a small claims judge would need to make your (now-estranged) brother hand over the JVC.

The notary system sucks from a security standpoint, but it works quite well in the real world. I suspect this digital notary thing would work the same, but that no one will use it.

Re:Worried

[drinkypoo]

And how could the police officer validate the digital signature? He would only look at the printed paper and it would seem all right to him.

Basically the only way to do this would be to have a sufficiently dense barcode which contained a signed ID number, and have a computer which the barcode was read with which would print out a picture of their ID for comparison, or at least their picture.

Re:Worried

[Anonymous Coward]

vôce porra

Others?

[imrdkl]

like contracts, invoices, wills, etc

Music files?

Re:Others?

[Twylite]

This technology allows for authentication. Given a file and a registry of public keys, you can be certain that the file is an identical copy of the one reviewed by the notary represented by the public key.

In the case of music, you could be certain that you have a copy of the genuine original, not a track modified by someone else. Artists and/or record companies could sign digital music files so that you know you aren't getting a modified version.

But this technology doesn't extend to copy control / protection. It does not consider the viewer/user at all, only the originator.

Re:Others?

[imrdkl]

this technology doesn't extend to copy control / protection

I realize that, but I think it's fair to say that there are those who wish that it could. (extend) Watermarking and device-based protections are the (insert "lame" here for karma) attempts that have been made. But I suspect there may also be chaffing and winnowing possibilities. (This was pointed out to me the other night in a different thread)

They will not stop trying until this works, imho.

Eat crackers

[Anonymous Coward]

And your point is??
I mean, whatever yoou call them, if someone breaks the law, he/she will have to deal with it.

I doubt police will blast into your house because you once wrote an email saying that you are an hacker.

Nobody outside slashdot really gives a damn about the difference about hacker and cracker. Just stop calling yourself hacker and you won't have to feel half as concerned.

Why do people have to go around telling that they are hackers, geeks, nerds anyway?

Stupid vanity, get busy with your code instead!!

Already doing that for edifact.

[leuk_he]

This is really nothing new. we already use digitally signed and encrypted EDIFACT messages (Invoices) where a notary is used to give out the keys. The messages are then send over internet (unreliable ) but much cheaper then X-400 (now over 5.000 euro per month)

Taco-Snotting Mary-Kate and Ashley

[George WIPO Bush]

I should be posting Taco-snotting stories, but I'm just too busy masturbating under my desk to pictures of these little cuties! Mmmmmm, look at their under-age little bodies... don't you want a piece of that??? Mmmm, feet...

*wanks*
*spooges on their feet*

THE OFFICIAL TACO-SNOTTING FAQ
By The WIPO Troll, $Revision: 1.10 $

What is "Taco-snotting?"

"Taco-snotting" is a term used by one Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda, owner of the popular technology website Slashdot, to refer to the practice of sucking the penis of a homosexual man (or unwilling heterosexual; CmdrTaco doesn't care, and is rumored to actually prefer rape) and blowing the semen back out his nose onto his partner's (or victim's) face or body. Usually a long, bubbly stream of milky-white semen is left on CmdrTaco's face, dribbling out of his nose, down his cheek: hence the term, "Taco-snotting."

Good Lord. And what is a "Circle-snot"?

A "circle-snot" is a Taco-snotting circle-jerk, another practice common among homosexual geeks. This is when CmdrTaco, CowboiKneel, and Homos get together and Taco-snot each other repeatedly with their gooey, hot, and sticky cum -- spooging their dicks all over each other's faces and pasty-white bodies until they're all covered head to toe with man juice. Roblowme usually provides plenty of extra lubricant; he owns a limo service and has ample supplies of motor oil and axle grease.

To complete this perverted orgy, fellow geeks Michael, Timothy, and Jamie often join in, dressed in black Gestapo uniforms, jack boots, and leather gloves. The whole group then proceeds to snot each other's spunk and whip each other's pudgy asses with riding crops and chains until their pasty-white geek bodies are sweaty and exhausted from all the passionate, homosexual revelry.

Ewwwww. Why have I been receiving emails from CmdrTaco asking me if he can Taco-snot me?

I'm guessing you've received an email similar to the following:

From: malda@slashdot.org
To: wipotroll@hotmail.com
Subject: Hey, baby - jion me in a taco-snott! :)

Hey, baby!

Ever done a taco-snotting with anothar fellow geek? Its more fun then trolling Slashdot, trust me! all that talk you troll with about homasexual incest and stuff got me all horny and hot for you! Is it serius? Please tell me that itt is! If you want to get with me and my Slashdot bois, drop me an emale!

ps- Please replie to me at horny_rob_6969@hotmail.com. I'd rather the guys at VA Linux are not seen this. :) :)

--
CmdrTaco (malda@slashdot.org)

You most likely forgot to uncheck the "Willing to Taco-snot" checkbox in your account preferences. Whenever CmdrTaco gets bored (and who wouldn't, running a site like Slashdot all day), he roams through the Slashdot database, penis in hand, looking for people who might enjoy being Taco-snotted. How he determines this is anyone's guess; but if you have a homosexual-sounding nickname, you're in trouble. So this time, he found you. Lucky you.

CmdrTaco has probably already got the hots for your wad, and he's probably already been lurking outside your bathroom window for weeks with a camera, some tissues and lube. There's no escaping a geek in heat, so it's probably too late for you, but you can possibly rectify this situation. To remove yourself from CmdrTaco's sights, log into your Slashdot account, go to your user page, click on Messages, and uncheck the box next to "Willing to Taco-snot." Maybe he'll ignore you. Probably not.

I can't stop receiving these emails from CmdrTaco!?

Probably not. If you indulge him in a Taco-snot or two, he might leave you alone. You might also want to look into mail filtering, restraining orders, or purchasing a heavy, blunt object capable of warding off rampaging homosexual geeks in heat. Trust me, when they charge... oh, the humanity. If he gets you, and you let him Taco-snot you, he might end up tying you up in his basement to use you as his sex slave for the rest of your life (or until he accidentally drowns you in spunk in a circle-snot).

Have you ever been Taco-Snotted?

Unfortunately, yes. I first met CmdrTaco at an Open Source Convention. He invited me back to his room for a game of Quake, but when I got to there, he jumped me and tied me to his bed, stripping me. After taking his "Commander" out of his pants, Mr. Taco made me suck the withered, little thing several times. He then performed his vile Taco-snotting ritual on me three times over the next two hours, bringing me to orgasm after sweaty, mind-numbing orgasm... then he snotted my own milky-white jizz back onto my face, into my mouth, then again on my exposed belly.

CmdrTaco invited several of his Open Source (or rather, "Open Sauce" -- man sauce) buddies over to continue the twisted snotfest. Linux Torvalds raped my ass with his "monolithic kernel," and Anal Cox used his "network stack" in a multitude of unspeakable ways on and in every orifice in my defenseless body.

How did you finally escape, you ask? After about 16 hours of countless homosexual atrocities perpetrated against my restrained body, they all finally went to sleep on top of me, sweat-soaked and exhausted. I was left there, covered in bubbly, translucent jizz-snot, chained to the bed, with half a dozen fat, pasty-white fags lying around and on top of me. Fortunately the spooge coating my flesh worked wonderfully as a lubricant; I was able to squirm my way out of the handcuffs and slip out the back door. I'm just glad I survived the ordeal. These geeks had a lot of built-up spunk in their wads -- I could've easily been drowned!

That's horrible. Does "Taco-snotting" have anything to do with CmdrTaco's "special taco"?

No, that's a different disgusting perversion CmdrTaco indulges himself in. CmdrTaco is usually not satisfied with merely snotting your own jizz back onto your face, he most often enjoys involving his own bodily fluids in his twisted games. WeatherTroll has spent some time trying to educate the Slashdot readership about this vile practice (emphasis added):

You may be wondering what CmdrTaco's "special taco" is. You will be wishing that you hadn't been wondering after you finish reading this post. To make his "special taco", CmdrTaco takes a taco shell and shits on it. He then adds lettuce, jacks off on the taco, and adds a compound to make the person who eats the taco unconscious. Of course, the compound does not make the person unconscious until the taco is fully eaten. Thus CmdrTaco force-feeds the taco to the unsuspecting victim.

After the victim is unconscious, he is held against his will and used for CmdrTaco's nefarious sexual purposes. This includes shoving taco shells up the victim's ass, Taco-snotting, and getting Jon Katz involved.

Completely different, yet no less revolting. It should be clear to you now that CmdrTaco is a very, very sick individual, as are most of the Slashdot editors.

Does Jon Katz get involved in any of this? I thought he was a paedophile, not a homosexual.

Actually, Jon Katz is a homosexual paedophile. He's also a coprophiliac, and, many suspect, a zoophile. Jon Katz is somewhat of a loner and doesn't involve himself in circle-snots. Mr. Katz usually engages in a game called " Katz juicy-douching" with his harem of little-boy slaves: a vile practice which involves administering an enema to himself of the little boy's urine (forced out of them with a pair of pliers), spooging the vile muck from his ass back into the enema bag, then squirting and slathering the goo all over himself, and the little boy's chained-up and naked bodies. If he's in the mood, he will sometimes skip refilling the enema bag and just squirt it from his ass onto his boys. Unwilling boys are further tortured with the pliers until they comply and allow Mr. Katz to juicy-douche them for the rest of their lives.

As I already said, Mr. Katz is also a zoophile. As if the sexual escapades with the helpless little boys aren't enough, Jon usually enjoys his juicy-douches best when his penis is firmly planted in a female goat's anus. He is also rumoured to get off on watching his little boys eat the goat's small, bean-like turds.

...Are you getting hard writing this?

Why, yes. :) Join me in a WIPO-snot? I promise I won't try and rape you or kidnap you and make you my sex slave or anything. I'm not like CmdrTaco or Mr. Katz; I only enjoy snotting on willing partners.

What's that screaming I hear coming from your basement?

Oh, that's just my little sister; I got her chained up down there. In fact, I just finished snotting all over her body. You should see her squirm when I spooge on her belly, lick it up, and snot it all over her face! She's such a feisty little 14 year-old bitch. Of course she's my sex slave, she's my sister. What else would she be good for? So, join me in a WIPO-snot?

No, thanks. I'm already CmdrTaco's boi toi.

________________________________________
READER COMMENTS

1. Re:Microsoft's Taco-Snotting Connection (Score:-1, Troll)
   by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.21 4:49 (#2594325)
   
   oh yeah, you say you have masturbated only 2 times to this post. well, by the time it takes for me to get through reading it, i usually end up masturbated 5 to 6 times, 10 to 12 if i have the goatse.cx homepage loaded up and am looking at it side by side with the slashdot page. my keyboard, hands, mouse, monitor, the underside of my desk and around the floor under my desk are cum soaked and sticky with the man smell i know and love.

2. Re:Microsoft's Taco-Snotting Connection (Score:0)
   by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.21 4:41 (#2594311)
   
   for version 2 you should make a total re-write of the cod...errr...text and add some details about cmdrtaco and the homo-gang's happenings with their coworkers (osdn?) and all of the gay revelry they enjoy and promote. by the way, did i just see cmdrtaco on television promoting the nax hair removal system? i guess after using vaseline in and around his ass he grew quite a ponytail and it had to be removed somehow...ouch!

3. Re:Microsoft's Taco-Snotting Connection (Score:-1, Troll)
   by TRoLLaXoR on 2001.11.21 3:59 (#2594191)
   
   WIPO, do you notice how few comments you get for anything you write/post/spam nowadays?
   
   -Trollaxor

4. Jon-Katz docking (Score:-1)
   by sales_worldwide on 2001.11.20 11:53 (#2588488)
   
   You forgot to mention Jon Katz's "docking" games, where he places his chopper head to head with another chap, and rolls the other guys foreskin over his own circumcised end ("docking"), providing him with fantasies of actually having his own forskin ...
   "Making linux GPL was the best thing I ever did" - Torvalds. I'd hate to see the worst thing...

5. Re:Snotting a first! (Score:-1)
   by Fucky the troll on 2001.11.20 11:28 (#2588446)
   
   Woah! When did the WIPO troll get freed? And how the fuck did I miss it?
   
   Excellent FP, sir.
   
   This is a sig virus. Please put me in your sig

6. Re:Snotting a first! (Score:-1, Troll)
   by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.20 11:04 (#2588407)
   
   omg that is crapflooding material if i ever saw it!!!!!! and u got a first post!!!! whoot to the wipo troll!!!

7. GW, please.... (Score:0)
   by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.19 9:03 (#2583756)
   
   GW...you know we love every hair on your 27 acre ass... and I, for one, would never do anything untowards your graceful demeanor. And you probably have several friends that would love to help you do the bear dance all over my face if I so much as spelled your name wrong. And you know I'd defend your Constitutional right to defame God in heaven. I'd even help fund your education, should you ever decide to take that route. Hell, I'd buy you a tall tepid bear-whiz beer if you were here with me, right now!
   
   But. ...if you can't find another topic, I'm gonna step over your dead mother's grave and kick your assuredly anesthetitized butt clear across the playground.
   
   Now go stick your shaved head back down inside the woman's toilet, and just to show there's no hard feelings, I'll jump in the tow-truck and drive right over to help you pull it right out...ok?
   
   thanks

8. Re:Help me Taco-Snotters!! (Score:-1)
   by mark knopfler 69 on 2001.11.19 8:25 (#2583695)
   
   I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU SIR. FOR ONE THING, THE E-MAIL FROM CMDRTACO DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH GRAMMATICAL AND SPELLING MISTAKES. Let's be realistic here, CmdrTaco usually types with one hand, and since he is shaking from jacking off his aim on the keyboard isn't too good. Those e-mails were a little too well written. Sorry boy, you'll have to do better.

9. Re: What the hell is "taco snotting"? (Score:-1)
   by WeatherTroll on 2001.11.19 8:14 (#2583667)
   
   You should update this to say VA Software instead of VA Linux.

10. YOU ARE WINNER (Score:1)
    by smackmonkey on 2001.11.19 7:06 (#2583510)
    
    Crackhead moderators: this is +5, Hilarious material.
    
    --
    CNN declares War on Islam!
    Left-wing America declares War on its Civil Liberties!

11. Re:On Taco-Snotting 1.9 (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.19 5:40 (#2583336)
    
    This was funny the first 100 times. Now it is getting boring!

12. Digusting and Shameful (Score:-1)
    by egg troll on 2001.11.18 22:27 (#2582054)
    
    Having masturbated *twice* to this post, I'm still incredibly aroused! Come over for a Taco Snot. I'll be wearing my crotchless Clifford the Big Red Dog outfit!!
    
    For more info check out this /. article

13. IMPROVE THE FAQ (Score:-1, Flamebait)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.18 12:03 (#2580822)
    
    add more links to goatse and to cowboineal's site to make it better. a link to rotten.com would be nice too
    • Re:IMPROVE THE FAQ (Score:0)
      by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.18 12:18 (#2580832)
      
      and a link to michael's site and to jon katz's site if he has one and homo's site. i dont know what else to say. maybe a few links to phallic.org they have nice penis pictures! a link to the planet quake site or whatever. really make the reader feel this faq really answers their questions. oh yeah, and when you talk about cmdrtaco snotting you, say he brought you to "orgasm after sweaty orgasm". describe it more is all i'm saying. and use more italics and bolding! and when you talk about jon katz shitting or whatever have a link to fecal japan on rotten.com
      
      other wise a great job wipo troll! keep up the good work!

14. Re:CmdrTaco's filthy secret! (Score:-1)
    by Wil Wheaton on 2001.11.18 6:41 (#2580438)
    
    Hi. Let's be buddies.. butt buddies.
    --
    WIL WHEATON DOT NET

15. WIPO speaks the truth (Score:-1)
    by dead_puppy on 2001.11.18 5:33 (#2580342)
    
    Here is an e-mail I received a week ago:
    
    From: malda@slashdot.org
    To: puppy_dead@hotmail.com
    Subject: were where you last friday? :(
    
    I thought we where supposed to meet at Backdoor's at 8-ish, sugar-lips? You could've at least told me that you could'nt make it! I was even in my favorite pink skirt for you, honey-cup... next time, you could be more considarite and tell me you cant come... bastard.
    
    --
    CmdrTaco (malda@slashdot.org)
    
    You finding Ling-Ling's head?

16. Taco snotting is WRONG!!! (Score:-1)
    by Big_Ass_Spork on 2001.11.18 4:53 (#2580300)
    
    I do it wrong
    
    Laying here in the shadows of my room, I squint up at my love. My Ms. Portman. I am sore and tired after fucking her for eight solid hours. My chapped and aching dick is soaking in grits to relieve the pain. She gets on her knees and starts lapping the grits up out of the bowl. She places her beautiful hands on my penis and starts to lick the grits off my achy piece.
    
    Massaging my nutsack she....
    
    WAIT, I DO IT WRONG!!!!
    
    Yanking my dick out of her mouth I throw her to the ground and shove it in to her gaping freshly fisted ass. [goatse.cx]
    
    "OH BIG ASS SPORK!! Fuck my ass, fuck my ass good. DEEPER, my stallion, deeper!! Make a Beowulf cluster of sperm on my back!!"
    
    "Imagine a Beowulf cluster of this baby!"
    
    I DO IT WRONG!!!!
    
    ---
    All your Sporks are belong to Big_Ass_Spork! What you say?! All your Sporks are belo... forget it...

17. Rob Malda Dead at age 25! (Score:-1)
    by j0nkatz on 2001.11.17 22:54 (#2579596)
    
    I just heard some sad news on the radio -- famous queerbait Rob Malda was found dead in his Holland home this morning. The details were a bit hazy, but it seems that he drowned in jizz while Taco Snotting his friend Hemos. I'm sure everyone in the /. community will miss him -- even if you didn't enjoy his queer antics and boring ass website, there's no denying his contributions to the homosesual cultural development, particularly in the areas of Taco snotting. Truly an American icon.
    
    I wanna Open Source sex so it won't be worth a shit either.

18. TACO-SNOTTING is really Donkey-Punching (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.15 6:38 (#2567601)
    
    No no no, the correct term for that is "donkey-punch". I have eye-witnessed this amazing eye-popping event demonstrated on unsuspecting hose-monsters by my frat brothers in the past.. . :-)

19. Re:the effect of knowlege laws... (Score:1)
    by AbsoluteRelativity on 2001.11.15 5:31 (#2567457)
    
    The WIPO Troll
    Slashdot and the Karma Lottery - News for uber monkeys, by uber monkeys.

20. Re:Taco-Snotting (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.13 9:27 (#2557632)
    
    Oh, man that's just sick !

21. HOW DO I GET AN ANONYMOUS PROXY? (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.13 9:03 (#2557604)
    
    TELL ME WHERE I CAN GET AN ANONYMOUS proxy please WIPO Troll. Maybe later i will join you in a snotting at my place. ;P

22. Re:Taco-Snottage!?!?!? (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by vikool on 2001.11.13 7:43 (#2557495)
    
    what is this bull shit,i feel offened that some people feel so so senseless to post stuff like these esp when such a tragic incident has occured

23. Re:Taco-felching!! (Score:-1)
    by I.T.R.A.R.K. on 2001.11.11 22:38 (#2551890)
    
    Where the fuck do I sign up?!
    
    - I throw rocks at retarded kids
    
    "Adequacy.org: Where congenital stupidity is not an option, but a requirement."

24. Re:Taco-felching!! (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 21:53 (#2551753)
    
    this shit is hilarious..keep up the good work.

25. Re:Taco-felching!! (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by rockwood on 2001.11.11 21:49 (#2551746)
    
    OMG! That is the most disgusting thing I have ever heard! WHo in their right mind would sit down and waste the time to construct such a replusive story. I guess I'll be skipping lunch and dinner today.. and possibly tomorrow also. The game doesn't affect reality. Reality affects the game.

26. Re:Ban this! It's disgusting!! (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 14:43 (#2550701)
    
    dude, this is crap-flood material if i ever saw it.
    duuuuuuuuudddddddddddddeeeeeeeee.

27. Re:Taco-Snotting = HATE SPEECH (Score:-1, Flamebait)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 8:16 (#2550266)
    
    horny_rob_6969@hotmail.com
    
    Ah, so that's what the alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.horny-rob newsgroup is about!

28. MOD THIS UP PLEASE!!! (Score:-1)
    by egg troll on 2001.11.11 5:34 (#2550024)
    
    +5, Arousing
    
    For more info check out this /. article

29. Re:Taco-Snotting = HATE SPEECH (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 4:39 (#2549891)
    
    WINNER>

30. Re:Taco-Snotting = HATE SPEECH (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 4:37 (#2549887)
    
    I love you. Why do you use your bitchslapped account, rather than signing up for a new account to post at +1 before getting bitchslapped by the censors here? I guess I should speak for myself, but I don't want to log out and lose all my slashdot customization properties, nor do I want to lose my 50 karma yet.

31. Re:On Taco-Snotting (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.09 9:19 (#2542412)
    
    you fucking rock! right down to the expanded cvs id!
    
    WIPO trolls > linux

________________________________________

• The URL of this document is http://slashdot.org/journal.pl? op=display &uid=267426 &id=2346.
• Previous revisions are maintained at http://slashdot.org/journal.pl? op=display &uid=308209.

$Id: tacosnotting.html,v 1.10 2001/11/21 05:16:58 wipo Exp $

Doubtful...

[ebbomega]

Highly...

The reason stuff like this would work on stuff like official documents but not on stuff like music is because if one country imposed legislation on it, there would always be another country without it. And since filesharing expands beyond patrial (is that a word?) borders, all the music that supposedly gets encrypted would just be worked around by another country. It works on official documents because... well, there's no real public demand for online official documents because they don't exist yet. And since the media and the demand for the media isn't already in place, it's not uncontrollable.

Also, people are going to spend hour upon hour of playing with music files trying to crack the encryption because, well, people are more than happy to redistribute the music they own, as opposed to say their driver's license, which I don't think they really want to hand out to some guy on the street.

At least, that's how I see it.

This system has a back door !!!

[Anonymous Coward]

My boyfriend had been going on at me for a long time about wanting anal sex with me. Initially I was quite shocked, but perhaps not surprised as he had gone to a well known public school, and I knew what they got up to!

I started to look up websites and read articles about anal sex on the Internet, and I was surprised how interesting I found the subject - I was even intrigued that the Americans call the women 'back door girls'.

One evening, after a few too many glasses of wine, I said that I would agree to it, on the condition that if it hurt or I did not like it he would stop immediately. My boyfriend is very considerate and he fully agreed to my demands. I said that I would have a bath, and see him in the bedroom.

I made sure that I carefully scrubbed my bottom in readiness, and with some trepidation walked into the bedroom. My boyfriend did nothing to hide his erection and he said that he was getting really excited at the prospect of taking me from the rear. He gave me a long and passionate kiss, his tongue probing deep into my mouth. He then cupped my breasts and started to lick and suck my nipples, which made them stand out like stalks. I could feel the moisture starting to flow from my pussy. He then got me to kneel on the carpet with my bottom sticking straight up at him. I am rather proud of my bottom, and he praised its plump roundness.

His tongue started to lick up and down my crack, I could feel his saliva dribbling down over my gaping pussy lips. My hand went to seek out my clit, and I rubbed it hard. Then he eased his cock to my puckered little hole, and ever so gently pushed it in. I let out a gasp, and tried to relax my muscles he slid further inside me. It was an incredible sensation, feeling his stiff cock gliding in and out of my bottom as my finger masturbated my clit.

Soon he cried out that he was going to cum, and my hand was in a frenzy rubbing my swollen bud, as I too felt my orgasm start. He groaned as with a final thrust up my bottom he spurted his delicious hot cream deep inside me. That was enough to send me over the top and I came with a violent shuddering spasm.

As a thank you to me, he gave my juicy pussy a good licking, and I had another lovely orgasm. I am now a fully paid up 'back door girl'!

The question of validity

[imrdkl]

An encrypted document is not valid except to the person(s) who hold the key to decrypt it. In this case, thats the owner and the notary. It also makes sense that notaries would be the first group to have signing rights for electronic documents which are owned by people that dont have their own key. Of course, it would be better to have one's own key for signing, then use the symmetric key which is agreed by both parties only for the encryption.

Alternatively, the document could be signed by both parties, but that kinda reduces the value of an individuals signature key, imho. In any case, a shared symmetric encryption key seems to me to be much like a notary stamp.

Disclaimer: the above may be a load of bunk. The site is slashdotted right now.

First big step

[carlosjordao]

Digital Documents will be a big step in Brazil administration. In a near future this could be possible voting from home, through internet.

In a short ranged time period, we won't need any more travel to other cities to sell houses, or anything else that needs assign any kind of paper. You can do it from home!

I guess all brazilians thanks our governments efforts to come that true, because if you past all your entire life dealing with dozens of documents Brazil uses a lot of differents documents independently, as ID and Driver's license.

This action can too improve sells through Internet, because government supports security to the citizen.

This law can push the present situation to a step further in simplifying all transactions and accelerating selling/buying through Internet even of houses.

Swiss Cheese...

[Knunov]

...has fewer holes.

Brazil has historically been the country of choice for international criminals due to their exportation laws. If you can make it to Brazilian soil, it's like crossing home plate. SAFE!

Don't believe me? Just ask Ronnie Biggs who after helping commit The Great Train Robbery in England, fled to and lived out his life in Brazi.

When international criminals need plastic surgery to change their appearance, more often than not it is performed by Brazilian doctors.

And the latest entry into Brazil's loooong list of indiscretions is the existence of large terrorist populations operating on their soil. Perhaps it isn't their fault the terrorists setup shop there, but they're still there.

Slashdot had an article about Brazil a couple months ago explaining about how their government was planning to break the patent on an AIDS drug because they couldn't agree with the manufacturer on a price.

And before you pipe up and say, "B..b..but the U.S. did the same thing with Cipro!" let me remind you that the patent on Cipro is nearly expired and we only threatened to hasten the bargaining game; not to actually do it. It was in very poor taste, but in the end, we paid for the medicine. Brazil won't.

So now Brazil is offering 'secure' documents, eh? HA! There are so many ways to exploit this it's sick.

Even in the U.S. you can be Joe Anyone and be certified as a notary. So if you want to falsify a will or business agreement, all you have to do is bribe one of your friends that is a notary and make the desired changes.

Or, you could even do it the right way and simply create a person. You can buy identities cheaply in Brazil. Make a false person, make that false person a notary, and have them change documents at will. Then, they simply disappear.

Total bullshit. Brazil creating and implementing a security scheme is like Ethiopia setting up culinary schools.

Knunov

Re:Swiss Cheese...

[Tim C]

Slashdot had an article about Brazil a couple months ago explaining about how their government was planning to break the patent on an AIDS drug because they couldn't agree with the manufacturer on a price.

Here are a few statistics for you:

• Brazil has the highest number of people with AIDS in Latin America, at around 200,000
  
• a quarter of Brazil's annual AIDS treatment budget of $300m is spent on the drug in question (nelfinavir)
  
• breaking the patent would allow them to save $34.8m per year, and so improve the level of care provided
  

(Sources: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1 505000/1505163.stm and http://asia.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/americas/08/22/aids .drug/)

Your comparison with Cipro is, imho, spurious. There have been what, a dozen cases of anthrax in the US since 11/9, which have lead to about 4 fatalities? On the other hand, Brazil is facing an AIDS problem of epidemic proportions. Yes, I realise that anthrax could have been a real problem, and so in the face of this potential problem the US government started making threats. Well, Brazil's problem is very real, and only going to get worse. The length of time remaining on the patent is immaterial.

I'm not against patents, just their misuse, and in my opinion charging too much for a drug that is so vitally needed is immoral and an abuse of the patent system.

Cheers,

Tim

Re:Swiss Cheese...

[Knunov]

AIDS is one of the few diseases that can be controlled simply by modifying behavior. It's difficult to contract AIDS.

So, here you have Brazil, a country full of people that won't stop carelessly fucking, breaking a patent for a medicine that someone else spent 10's if not 100's of millions of dollars developing, simply because they don't have the will to NOT FUCK, or at least use protection.

We had Anthrax mailed to us. It's not even close to being the same scenario. And the bottom line is, we paid. They won't.

Knunov

Re:Swiss Cheese...

[vidarh]

This is bullshit. Brazils laws allow the government to use compulsory licensing in the face of a medical emergency. Notice: Compulsory licensing, not "breaking" the patent. What this means is that they can force the manufcaturer to license a product at a reasonable price if they refuse to do so by their own choice in the case where the country faces a medical emergency.

This is legal in Brazil, and a part of the terms you enter into when applying for a patent.

A patent isn't some god-given right, but a privilege granted by a country for a limited period of time, provided that you fulfill whatever restrictions the particular country has placed on patents. In this case: They have to be prepared to accept compulsory licensing.

Now, perhaps you believe that hundreds of thousands of people dying of AIDS doesn't constitute a medical emergency... In that case I'll just think you're an asshole.

Either way, you are wrong that Brazil won't pay for the drugs - under the terms of their compulsory licensing law still pay licensing fees.

Re:Swiss Cheese...

[vidarh]

"Simply by modifying behaviour"?

Talk about being a complete idiot.

You obviously don't realize how difficult it is to get an entire country to change behaviour. ANY country.

Do you realize the cost of giving enough information to a population the size of Brazils that is thorough enough that people will change their behaviour?

Can you show me any country that has managed to get rid of HIV and AIDS by getting people to change behaviour? Let alone any country as poor as Brazil.

And I've already replied to the bullshit about "breaking" a patent before, and your lies about Brazil not paying.

Further, even if you do use protection, you don't have 100% protection against HIV. And even if you stick with only one partner, you have no guarantee that your partner does the same.

Re:Swiss Cheese...

[apow]

You should do better your homework...

Ronald Biggs wasn't sent back to England, because there is no extradition treaty between Brazil and England, and they refuse to sign one...

When international criminals need plastic surgery, they don't go to the surgeon's office, knock on the door and say "hey! how r u doing? My name is Osama and I'm in need of a facelift!", Surgeons who actually know they are international criminals are a few, and that happens everywhere. If you wanna talk about how the criminals get into the country, now yes, it's a diferent story.

I won't even get to the patent stuff, since WTO already agreed with it. (Just as a sidenote, if u consider this as being so wrong, how does it become right just cause you "only threatened to haste the bargain"? Get serious.)

And, some years ago, one could easily buy an identity here in Brazil, cause our information systems were not centralized. In fact, they weren't even informatized, so yes, it was easy, not anymore. But every country has its flaws, like US,where ppl still vote on paper and for that CNN declared a new president 2 or 3 times in a few hours :^O

Bottom line: If all you have to do is spot problems and call things bullshit, that's cause u got nothing to do.

Re:Swiss Cheese...

[ChiPHeaD23]

Now that you mentioned changing behavior... Stop opening your mail, silly.

Bleh.

Re:Swiss Cheese...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, say that.

We here neve got a nut exploding our federal buil
dings (indeed, some of it DESERVE it), and, by
what I got when there on USA, any kid can prove
be at 21, even with 15...

Hey, look at YOUR back before talking of the
Brazilians.

We should be not so technical, but mentally sane
surely..

Ahn, and about Kyoto?

Re:Swiss Cheese...

[radja]

so the brazilian population will either die because of no children, or because of AIDS.. nice choice. All cases of anthrax could have been prevented by a simple change in behaviour. Simply by using email and fax instead of physical letters. Besides.. humanity will survive if we all stop using physical letters, humanity will die if we all stop fucking.

You're right.. the situation is not even close: 1 is an epidemy with millions of infected people, and there is no cure yet. the other is a few separate cases, with 5 deaths up to now for a disease with a cure.

//rdj

Re:Swiss Cheese...

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you ever even BEEN to brasil? I guess you just park your pretty ass in front of CNN and sprout out crap that you recieved?

Sorry for the abrasiveness, because you do have a few valid arguements there.

Re:Swiss Cheese...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait a minute. What are you saying? You should be carefull where you throw your poison. Brazil has many problems as all countries do, but let's keep things in perspective here.

You say Brazil left a criminal be free? That was a time when Brazil was a military dictatorship sponsored by your good old USA.

You say there are terrorists in Brazilian soil? So what? There are also terrorists on American soil as well. Or where do you think these bastards responsible for Sep. 11 lived for years before. And how about Oklahoma? We use to say in Brazil that people who have glass ceilings should not throw stones at neighbors...

You talk about your uninformed AIDS patent theory. You should know that in the end, Brazil and Bayer did reach an agreement, so that the patent was not broken and it was exactly the same as happened with Cipro in the US. The difference is that the US complained against Brazil when we did it, and then you did exactly the same. "Do as I say and not as I do!". That's how bad your country looks in the international comunity.

If you want to criticize Brazil, at least criticize the really important things and help us in our important battles. Like the battle for FUST, the billion dolar project to put computers and Internet in schools that originated with a proposal for cheap computers using LINUX and became a MS Windows inforced project ( sorry, link in portuguese ) on 240000 computers ( the government claims that the schools will still be allowed to use LINUX on 50000 remaining computers ).

Let's be constructive for once...

Re:Swiss Cheese...

[fokfok]

yeah... I live in Brazil. Fuck you. And your terrorists too.

Re:Swiss Cheese...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is such bullshit. You completely ignore what he was saying, and go off on some fucking strawman tangent. Here's a hint: YOU ARE A FUCKING RETARD. No one is talking about the dumb Brazilian sluts, we're talking about the postives and negatives of Brazil using digitally notarized documents.

Re:Swiss Cheese...

[Anonymous Coward]

He didn't say it became right for the US to do it, he said that it was right because we DIDN'T do it. Empty threats are in bad taste (as he said), but at least we didn't do it.

CNN never called 2 or 3 presidents. Their predictions changed, because the election was close. Their predictions had nothing to do with the voting system.

As for your "bottom line", are you saying that everyone who responds to a /. story has nothing to do? Or just people who respond with anything less than naive optimism? And if he's wasting his time, what do you think you're doing?

Re:Swiss Cheese...

[Anonymous Coward]

You obviously don't realize how difficult it is to get an entire country to change behaviour.

Raimunda, Raimunda.
Feia da cara, mas boa da bunda.

Why Digital Signatures Aren't Signatures

[fhwang]

Everyone interested in this subject should read Bruce Schneier's piece on the subject: Why Digital Signatures Aren't Signatures. The gist of his article is that although cryptography came verify that a document can from a given computer, it cannot verify that it came from a given person, or even that that person intended to sign that document. "The mathematics of cryptography, no matter how strong," he writes, "cannot bridge the gap between me and my computer."

Re:Why Digital Signatures Aren't Signatures

[leuk_he]

The article is not that good, but there are many many userful links below the article.

A lot of security is based on thrust. This is the main thing. Same thing goes for signatures. You can sign a paper but they thrust you that you did read (an can) the paper. Signatures can be faked as well.

And of course you can bridge the gap between you and the computer with biometric autorisation.

Re:Why Digital Signatures Aren't Signatures

[swillden]

And of course you can bridge the gap between you and the computer with biometric autorisation.

I don't think you read Schneier's article. The point is that you, the putative signer, never know what the computer, the real signer, is actually signing. How you authenticate yourself to the computer to unlock the signing key is irrelevant, and biometrics aren't really any better than other authentication mechanisms (from a security point of view, biometrics are actually very poor authentication mechanisms).

lot of security is based on thrust.

All security is based on controlling, quantifying and limiting trust. Schneier's point is that the trustworthiness of digital signatures depend absolutely on the trustworthiness of the software and hardware performing the signing operation. You have to trust that the key is stored securely, authentication of the user is performed securely (and correctly), that the signing operation is performed correctly and that the correct document (and *only* the correct document is signed. And if the computer in question is a standard, easily hackable PC running, such trust is almost impossible to justify.

I started to implement a secure digital signature system based (mostly) on commodity hardware a while back. Unfortunately the project was cancelled before it was finished, but here's what we had to do:

• Use a secure crypto card for key generation, storage and access control (the IBM 4758 (don't let the recent bad press fool you, it's an extremely secure device)). A naive person would think we're done here, and then some.
• Use a stripped-down version of an open source operating system, thoroughly reviewed. We were going to use an old Linux kernel (from the days when it was smaller and simpler). The source had to be reviewed line by line, and the policies and procedures that had to be set up around how this code was stored and how modifications were tracked were very onerous.
• Write and thoroughly review the document display and signing software.
• Build the OS and software on a secure build server and burn it onto a CD. Run an MD5 hash of the CD contents and burn a few copies of another bootable CD whose only function is to verify the first CD (using the hash). Distribute the verification CDs to appropriate, trusted, people, who store them in personal safes. Put the first CD in a lockbox in a vault. Distribute keys to the lockbox to appropriate, trusted, people who don't have verification CDs.
• Remove all drives from the PC except for one CD-ROM drive and one floppy drive, configure the BIOS to boot only from the CD-ROM drive and set a BIOS password. Lose the password.
• Place the entire PC in a custom-built, TEMPEST-shielded, lockable cabinet, with only the CD-rom drive, floppy drive, keyboard and LCD display (not CRT) exposed. The keyboard must be entirely inside the cabinet except for the keys. No cabling can be exposed, except the power cord. Put the cabinet in a secure room and tightly control access to it.
• When you want to sign something, write the document on a floppy in ASCII text, find someone with a lockbox key and someone with a verification CD.
• Retrieve the system CD. Boot the secure PC off the verification CD. Insert the system CD for verification. Assuming it verifies correctly, unplug the PC, insert the system CD and your floppy and power the PC back on. The system will read your document, display it on-screen, then ask you to identify yourself. You specify your username and passcode, which are passed to the 4758 along with the document. The 4758 checks your credentials, hashes and signs the document and passes the signature back to the PC, which writes it to the floppy.
• Return the system CD to the vault.

There are obviously a lot of other issues I didn't mention, such as the policies and procedures around key generation, who is given signing privileges, how public keys are distributed to relying parties, how certification is done, etc., etc., etc.

Of course, very few situations require this level of security. But there are also fairly few situations where there's any point in using software-based signing on a general-purpose PC.

And biometrics make absolutely no difference to any of this. Biometrics are to security like syntactic sugar is to a programming language.

Re:Why Digital Signatures Aren't Signatures

[leuk_he]

Unfortunately the project was cancelled before it was finished, but here's what we had to do:...

How far did you get.. and what kind of organisations is this?

(from a security point of view, biometrics are actually very poor authentication mechanisms.)

Could you explain this? Because biometics are going to be a very important issue to prove you are you.

In my opinion it proves the point "Person A" was behind this device at that time. If fixes the gap between the PC and person. I do understand it does not yet prove that person did read the document he signed. (And the pc can be hacked, and a standard pc is much more hackable than your solution)

Re:Why Digital Signatures Aren't Signatures

[rthille]

The trouble is, even with a 'real' signature on a piece of paper, the document can be altered post-signature. Which is why for some very important documents, you sign very large over the top of the doucument so that the ink will be below the alterations if any are made.

I think going with a Handspring Visor with an iButton imbedded (and being careful about what software you install) will be 'safe enough' for most cases.

Re:Why Digital Signatures Aren't Signatures

[swillden]

How far did you get.. and what kind of organisations is this?

Sorry, can't tell you.

Could you explain this? Because biometics are going to be a very important issue to prove you are you.

But they don't.

If you look closely at the processes involved in biometric authentication you see there are many points where they're vulnerable to attack. I won't go into all of the details, but I'll try to give you an overview.

• Capture. To begin with we have to capture your biometric scan initially, associate it with you and get it into the database. This is pretty easy to secure, but it has to be done.
• Template storage. That biometric scan has to be stored somewhere. An attacker who can gain access to the database can insert his own template. Less obviously, he can do a denial-of-service attack by corrupting yours, which can open up a whole range of new social attacks. Also, templates can't be stored in hashed form like passwords, because template matching is fuzzy.
• Scanning. When you authenticate yourself, a scanner grabs biometric information via some sort of scanner and converts it to a string of bits. If compromised, the scanner can mess with it in all sorts of ways.
• Transmission. In many cases the scanner must transfer the biometric data to another system for comparison (this other system may be directly attached to the scanner, but it's still a separate unit). It can be modified, or, far worse, copied. Once the attacker has a copy of your scan data he can replay it at will to impersonate you. It's important to realize that he doesn't need to make a phone finger or retina. It's much easier to bypass the scanner and just send the bit string in directly. A scanner that timestamps and digitally signs and encrypts the data would help.
• Comparison. Some system must compare the scan with the template. Another good place to attack, particularly since this system must have access to the template database.
• Other compromise. Your body is a rather visible and accessible thing, which makes it a bad thing to use as a password. Your fingerprints are left everywhere, you can be tricked into allowing an attacker to scan your retinas in a variety of ways.

So you see, from a security point of view, a biometric scan is just a password that's not well-secured, is complicated to use (technically complicated, not complicated to the user) and can't really be replaced once compromised (you only have ten fingers, two eyes, etc.) Most of the above compromise points apply to passwords as well, and most can be adequately closed, but, overall, a well-chosen passphrase, never written down and only entered into a secured terminal is more secure than biometric authentication.

Of course, the best authentication is three-factor (something you have, something you know, something you are).

good thing?

[brianr]

The slashdot spin on this seems to be that it's a good thing.

How is this a good thing? Sure it may make being able to notarize things more convenient. And having it recognized as 'official' may be beneficial for many people. Especially businesses and other types of organizations who often need something to be canonized before they can embrace it.

What does this really mean though? If my key is compromised and someone uses it to 'sign' a contract, does that mean I'm bound by it?

Or will duress-like provisions apply?

Print your own driving licence

[Cardinal Biggles]

Brazilian Notary and Register Association claims that one can even print as many copies of, say, your driver license as desired, though I don't see how this part would work..."

Well, if you have an image containing a bar code that is a digital signature of the data (name,date of birth,expiry date etc) on the licence, made by the government's secret key, anyone with a barcode scanner and a palmtop that can run PGP or something can validate the document. All you need is the government's public key.

I think that would be a very elegant way to save money, while making the production of false documents more difficult.

Re:Print your own driving licence

[yivi]

Validating the signature wouln't validate the document.

The signature is valid only with the matching document. He should need to scan the full document to see if the signature is OK.

And that would be a little harder.

Re:Swiss Cheese... OUCH

[apow]

Is it dificult to contract AIDS? Now you're getting stupid. A beautiful day, a beautiful girl, nice family etc, she is so serious bla bla bla you are seeing her for 3 months now, you get laid, and the condom blows. But hey, no problem, she's nice, she's not a whore, she couldn't probably have aids, no big deal... till 6 months later when u do your blood test and it hits positive for HIV. And again, as a sidenote, Brazil has the best anti-AIDS propaganda in the whole fscking world. Everyone uses the damn condoms.

There is no risk group when you're talking about AIDS. By the way, how the hell do you think that all ppl who have AIDS were contaminated in the first place? Maybe you're not getting laid too much heheheh :)

How ppl who have AIDS were contaminated...

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe by trying to give some pleasure to a Nerd like you are ?

+ If you make bllod test every 6 month, maybe YOU are the one that doesn't get laid often enough...

Well, just my .02 :)

Security of the notary

[sporty]

We all do relalize, that if the security of the notary is compromised, it is easy to generate digital signatures. What makes it worse, is if the key is secretly compromised (i.e. downloaded)

off topic

[Anonymous Coward]

someone please mod this down to offtopic.

There is a current infrastructure shortage...

[Curt Cox]

Internet based services are way behind where they should be. Something as basic as timestamping is still having trouble getting of the ground after several years. Think of all the things that you should be able to accomplish, simply (although not necessarily freely) but just can't yet.

That Translation Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

Brazilians will be able to digitalize any certified document and can make as many copies they want

Brazilian citizens, starting next year, will be able to get in a notary's office a floppy disk, or a CD-ROM, containing driver and identity cards, birth certificate and property deeds, guaranteed to be authentic, secure and legal. With the disk the citizen will be able to print as many electronic copies as many times as wanted, in the house, the office, or to send them over the Internet, respecting legal restrictions.

This is one of the simplifications that will be at the disposal of the Brazilian citizens in the contract that the Association of the Notaries and Registers of Brazil (ANOREG-BR) signs today, Monday, at 3:00, with the SERPRO (Federal Job of Data Processing), SGAN-Document 601-Section V, here in Brasilia (the Capital). To make a long story short, digital certificates could be distributed so that the notaries and registers will allow the electronic sending of any document, that will have the same attributes as the normal document. The trial version will have initial implantation in 10 notary's offices in Rio De Janeiro.

The information is from the president of Association of the Notaries and Registrations of Brazil (ANOREG-BR), clarifying that such modernization now is possible after the passing of the Provisional remedy that instituted Infrastructure of Brazilian Public Keys (ICP-Brazil), giving to legal validity digital documents and signatures.

According to the contract, it legalizes, the ANOREG-BR as the Authority Certifier of the notaries and Registers (notary's offices). SERPRO will initialize the creation of the digital certificates, giving the encrypted electronic form of documents, through a combination of numbers, letters and symbols, a guarantee (haha) that the source will be secure and bad guys cant crack into it.

For the creation of the Digital Certificate, the bearer generates two encrypted keys (a public and private one). The private key, used to sign documents digitally, will remain exclusively under control of the bearer of the certificate. The public key and the identification of the bearer define the content of the Digital Certificate. This, in turn, digitally is signed by the Authority Certifier, with process of identification for the bearer of the key will ALWAYS be made in notary's office.

Still according to Léa Portugal, the Digital Certificates sent by the ANOREG-BR will contain extensions that aim at to extend the degree of security and the reliability of the procedure practiced for the notary jobs and of the register. These extensions will allow, among other things, the users of the procedure to verify if the bearer of the certificate possess delegation of the public power to guarantee the act in question.

Innumerable advantages

With the implanted system, Luiz explains Gustavo Leão Ribeiro, president of the ANOREG-DF, a real estate deal will be able to be received from the notary's offices, through the Internet, and all at one time, all the necessary certificates to the finish the deal, with the documents that proves the inexistence of restrictions to the property, such as mortgage, non-availability, distrainment etc. will be available. In the same way, a bank that negotiates a loan with a customer will prove, electronically, the validity and the availability to guarantee the loan.

Says Luiz Gustavo: the advantage of the contract with the SERPRO is that the agency uses the "digital language" of the government and that the digital documents generated by the notary jobs and registrars will enjoy of the same level of acceptance that the normal documents generated for the public management (the paper kind). Securitywise, it definitively guarantees that any attempt to alter the text or signature of the digital certificates will invalidate the document. Moreover, the SERPRO will always guarantee, to the notary acts and of public registers, the same technology, security and reliability supplied the diverse organizations of the public management, from the Presidency of the Republic.

The private keys, clarified the president of the ANOREG-DF, remains exclusively under control of the bearer of the certificate, and its security can be magnified with the use of intelligent cards (smart cards), that still can be improved with diverse biological-related readers (fingerprint, voice, retina etc.).

For more information:
Assessorship of the Press of the ANOREG-BR - Luis Joca (Texto and Cia - Consultant in Communication: (61) 322.1675/1408 and 9983.3589)
Assessorship Technique - Arnaldo Viegas de Lima: (21) 9874,4997
Dra. Léa Portugal, president of the ANOREG-BR: (61) 9984-5554
Dr. Luiz Gustavo Leão Ribeiro: (61) 9985.2396

possible in any part of U.S.?

[shibboleth]

Is anyone doing online notarization in the U.S. anyone know? Is it even possible under any U.S state's current law?

I've been thinking it'd be nice if webmasters had a way to notarize information and then point to that notarization (on the notary's website, for credibility). This would a way to backup certain claims in a way easy for people to verify. Good idea?

quick thing about US notaries...

[JimBobJoe]

Do be careful when you see the word "notary" in reference to a foreign country. I guess for the purposes of what you said up there and what the article is about, you can sorta use it in the same way.

49 states are "common law" states. A notary public in these states doesn't do anything else except notarize (certify) documents (that the person is whom they claim to be and that they sign the document intentionally and not under duress...etc.)

Brazil, most foreign countries, and Lousiana are "civil law" jurisdictions. Notaries in those places do a lot more than just certify documents. They are actually lawyers who have quite a lot of interesting powers and duties. For instance, a Lousiana notary is involved in the buying/selling of a home (in the other 49 states, we use "title agencies.)

My point is, in the 49 states, notaries don't really do all that much...whereas notaries in civil law countries are quite a part of everday life--so there may not be all that much of a reason for notaries to go online here--but notarial services in civil law countries is quite a convenience.

Re:quick thing about US notaries...

[shibboleth]

good info, thanks.

Notaries may not do much in 49 states but it'd be a good start to putting Clinton's digital signature law to use if one could, with a few clicks, legally certify it's you intentionally signing a document. Example: I submitted a spam to SpamCop.net recently and got back a notice from the spammer's ISP saying that they are being sued for damages and to restore service by the spammer and that they need people (the more, the better) to send them a notarized statement (that what they had received was spam and that their complaint/email to SpamCop was not simply a request to opt-out of a mailing list they'ed opted-into blah blah). It was a bit of a hassle getting to a notary for that, i'd rather have just digitally signed the boilerplate document they provided with my PGP private key or one from a Thawte personal certificate and forwarded it to an online notary who notarized, printed, and snail mailed it.

Once digital signatures and other aspects of cryptographic techniques are well accepted and integrated, everyone is wired with their little bioauthentication scanners, and all newly published info is available (for a price) online, we can get more creative. Example: it should go a long way to combatting ignorance and uncertainty based on credibility gaps when reporters can back up statements not just by citing references as at present but by linking to a statement, from a notary, that all their citations have been verified to have come from the sources claimed. (Further details and any provisos available at a click.)

As this fiction fades to fact, see them rendered twain.

solving the wrong problem?

[zatz]

If you are only trying to make it possible for one person to digitally sign documents with their own key, it can be much simpler than all that. Just write a module for a PDA that generates the key internally and can sign documents on it, and wave lots of warning signs at the user when they do something that would copy their private key off the PDA. If you never run the PDA software on anything you don't read first (or put any untrusted software on it), how can you screw up? Obviously you need a PDA where the data transfer can be adminstered from the PDA side, not the random-untrusted-PC side, but the software work for this seems like a lot less than custom-tailoring and auditing an entire linux kernel. You could even physically mangle the communication link so that it works in one direction only, and when you sign something, manually transcribe the result, which should be a reasonably short hex string. Or only sign hashes of documents (which is typical anyway) and also input the hash by hand, but then you have to trust the computer generating the hash, since you don't get to inspect the plaintext on the PDA as you sign it.

What are you concerned about Tempest radiation for, anyway? Maybe the system bus would leak information about the private key, but the _monitor_? All it should be doing is displaying the contract, and the contract doesn't need to be secret... indeed, it will not remain so if there is ever a dispute about the signers.

Re:solving the wrong problem?

[swillden]

Just write a module for a PDA that generates the key internally and can sign documents on it, and wave lots of warning signs at the user when they do something that would copy their private key off the PDA.

The system was going to be used for signing documents with extremely high value. A PDA-based solution could not have offered adequate security.

Obviously you need a PDA where the data transfer can be adminstered from the PDA side, not the random-untrusted-PC side, but the software work for this seems like a lot less than custom-tailoring and auditing an entire linux kernel.

Two things: First, you'd be surprised how small a Linux kernel can be. Second, we were doing the Linux kernel audit for another project anyway.

What are you concerned about Tempest radiation for, anyway?

I neglected to mention that digital signatures were not the only purpose of this system. It was also to be used for secure imports of symmetric key parts. The key parts were to be displayed on-screen.

Re:solving the wrong problem?

[zatz]

How does high value make a PDA inadequate? Just treat the PDA like something valuable, as valuable as the contracts it can potentially sign. Put it in a safe when you aren't using it, for example. Were you going to sign things more valuable than a PDA's weight of gold? Probably, OK then, a PDA's weight of cashier's checks with lots of zeroes on them? Exactly.

And if you need multiple parties to sign a document before it is valid, you can either just put multiple locks on the safe, or use multiple safes and use an appropriate multiparty signature protocol.

oops, I feel redundant

[zatz]

Schneier actually suggests using a handheld in the article.

At least that means this solution is obvious. Generate your keypair on your PDA, and then secure it physically.

Re:Worried (for different reasons)

[rfz]

This is a national PKI, guys. They are not just playing around. The Federal government will run a root CA, regional CAs and RAs will be established, and every citizen will have the right to use the system. Everyone will be able to get a key pair.

There are clear rules in Brazil which distinguish the applicability of an authenticated copy and an original document. You can get a physical, authenticated copy of your driver's license and use it for a zillion things, but you must drive with your original driver's license. The digital copies will be just as good as authenticated copies.

I have not had access to the actual documents that explain the notarization system, but I am quite sure that you will need to notorize (get a timestamp and a signature from a digital notary) each printed copy of the documents.

The BIG issue here is whether we want the Federal Governmente to operate the Root CA. Among other powers, it will hold a backup copy of each private key in the national system.

On the other hand, there is no point in discussing this, since the Federal Government has established the national PKI already. The rules are set, and they are reasonable.

What really worries me is that the government and media have made no effort to explain any of this to the people of this very poor and ignorant country.

Heh heh....

[wadetemp]

He said assymetric. Heh heh.

Digital Signatures vs. Digital Notarization

[XNormal]

Digital Signatures as a direct replacement for pen signatures is really a bad idea. Basically, what an X.509 certificate says is "On [date] a public key [hash] was held by [individual or orgnaization] and I have absolutely no idea what hardware, software and security procedues [individual or organization] uses to protect it. Signed by [issuer]".

Digital Notarization is a much better idea. It's the equivalent of a notarization seal, not a pen signature. Digital Notaries are required to employ certain security measures or else they could lose their license and have their certificates revoked. A Notarized Digital Signature says "On [date], I have verified the identity of [individual or authorized representative of organization] and obtained their informed consent of the content of the following document [hash]. If necessary, I will testify to this fact in court. Signed [notary]".

Ronald Biggs

[Anonymous Coward]

Ronald Biggs wasn't sent back to GB because he is married to a brazilian woman AND has a brazilian son. This situation is protected under brazilian law.

If any foreign criminal is jailed in Brazil, it will be extractided to any country with a extratition treaty.

Please, do your homework first, then post the FACTS.