McAfee Will Ignore FBI Spyware

Drew writes: "The Washington Post is reporting on the FBI's new spyware called 'Magic Lantern.' According to their article, 'At least one antivirus software company, McAfee Corp., contacted the FBI on Wednesday to ensure its software wouldn't inadvertently detect the bureau's snooping software and alert a criminal suspect.' It is ridiculous that the software companies that are supposed to help us protect computers purposefully leave in loopholes for the FBI to operate their spyware."

Comments

Fucking Great

[Breakfast Pants]

Now anyone can craft their virii to look like the FBI's brood and avoid detection alltogether.

Fabulous, I hope everyone feels safer already.

Magic Lantern benefits crackers!

[rice_burners_suck]

The point is, these aren't loopholes for the FBI. McAfee will ignore this loophole, and that will allow CRACKERS to get into your system. This program, which is intended to prevent people from getting into your computer, will happily ignore all cracking that takes place through the same loopholes as this so-called Magic Lantern.

Oh well... Next time, use OpenBSD.

What about linux users?

[Griim]

In contrast, Magic Lantern could be installed over the Internet by tricking a person into double-clicking an e-mail attachment

So I guess for linux users, the email would probably look like the following:

Dear Sir or Madam,
Please make sure you are root when you execute this file.

Thanks,
The FBI

Re:What about linux users?

[cperciva]

So I guess for linux users, the email would probably look like the following:

I think it is more likely that the trojan would look like:

if(uptime()>3500000) {
ExploitLocalRootHole();
DoEvilStuff();
} else {
WaitUntilNextLocalRootHoleDiscovered();
ExploitNewLocalRootHole();
DoEvilStuff();
};

Re:McAffee

[rice_burners_suck]

The problem, in my opinion, is that sales of McAfee's products will NOT drop because of this. You're forgetting that 99% of the people who buy that product do so because of FUD--Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. These are people who do not understand computers, viruses, bugs, worms and all kinds of other "marketing" names. They buy McAfee because it will prevent "hackers" (who should be called "crackers") from entering their system and causing their CPU to melt. These people will say, "Well of course McAfee shouldn't detect the FBI's crimefighting behavior." They simply don't know that this is a loophole for crackers (the "hackers" they're afraid of) to take advantage of. And they'll never consider that a possibility.

THAT is the problem with things like this. Just wait a few more days and we'll probably get a Slashdot story about a press release by the FBI telling of a new "technology" (a 4KB program that plugs this loophole) that empowers criminals to rub the Magic Lantern and make a wish that the FBI will leave them alone.

Here's McAfee's contact page

[Anonymous DWord]

In case you want to shout at them about how you'll not buy any more of their products. Maybe if McAfee understands how stupid this is, they'll change their minds (hahaha, right).

http://www.mcafee.com/aboutus/contact_us.asp?

McAfee.com Corporate Headquarters
McAfee.com
535 Oakmead Parkway
Sunnyvale, CA 94085
USA

Telephone: (408) 992-8100
Fax: (408) 720-8450

Is There a Difference?

[Knunov]

"McAfee Will Ignore FBI Spyware"

They've been ignoring viruses for years. Why change now?

;)

Knunov

FBI - Classic magician's trick?

[rice_burners_suck]

It just may be that the FBI's so-called "Magic Lantern" is a classic magician's trick. They are telling the whole world that this Magic Lantern is a technology that will seek out and destroy every dangerous criminal on the face of the planet. They're marketing it as an unbeatable technology that works on EVERY SINGLE COMPUTER IN THE WORLD (that is, every one that's running Windows). They're causing lusers to think that there really is some kind of crimefighting technology when it's really nothing more than a bug which allows crackers to compromise Windows.

Then, the criminals who are trying to avoid the FBI see this and talk to someone who understands computers. That person tells them how to patch their system to remove the vulnerability.

Here's where the classic trick takes place. The criminal thinks he's immune from the Lantern, so he goes on with business as usual. He writes down his drug trafficking records or whatever, and then the FBI goes in behind his back, using some other system that nobody knows about, and gets the information.

I'm not saying this is what's going on. On the contrary--government people are really stupid, and even more so when it comes to computers. But I'm saying this is a possibility, and I'll try not to discount the FBI's intelligence just yet.

Oh well.

Interesting Situation

[gibara]

This creates an interesting situation. As I understand it, virus detection programs use:

1) signatures -specific byte patterns which are searched for in files, and

2) heuristics - in this case algorithms which seek unlikely looking data to determine whether the user should be alerted to a possible intrusion attempt.

McAfee can of course omit signatures for this 'Magic Lantern' (ML) software from their database. However, in the case of the heuristics, avoiding user notification of ML requires either:

a) a weakening of the heuristic(s), presumably to such an extent that other viruses may penetrate the system or

b) the presence of a special signature in the McAfee software which (on recognizing ML) can 'override' the heuristic

Case (b) is interesting. If McAfee do this with a simple byte pattern search this will immediately provide viruses with a neat little 'binary tag' which permits them to evade McAfee's software

The alternative must be to use a cryptographic hash which can be used to identify ML but which cannot be readily forged by other virus code. Using this checksum technique also demands that the ML 'payload' remain unchanged. Very restrictive for code which needs to be stealthy.

But the most important side-effect of both of these techniques - and any others McAfee might choose to use, would be that it provides an easy route for developers to produce software which can check for ML.

In other words, McAfee cannot both provide useful levels of virus detection and avoid alerting the user to Magic Lantern without giving other developers a blueprint to locate it.

I'm going to vote with my dollars....

[Lawmeister]

and not purchase, nor recommend to anybody including my employer (2000+ PCs) McAfee's products. Or any other product that doesn't jive with what I want it to do.

Will be interesting to see what the marketplace thinks of this move when their stocks start trading again on Monday.

F-Prot isn't based in the States, and maybe they will provide the protection users want.

Trust is absolutely necessary to have democracy.

[Futurepower(tm)]

We need to protect ourselves vigorously from crime. However, creating secret agencies who are able to commit crimes themselves is not the way to protect ourselves.

Already there is a serious problem with people committing some destructive act and claiming it was done by the CIA or other U.S. government secret agency. There is no good defense against this, because people worldwide know that the U.S. government secret agencies routinely break the law. How could it be proven that the FBI, CIA, or NSA, or some other secret agency didn't do a particular crime?

The U.S. FBI, CIA, and NSA are now worldwide surveillance agencies. They are supported by Americans who are not allowed to know how much of their money is spent on surveillance. United States citizens are not allowed to know what the U.S. government secret agencies are doing, so they don't know if the agencies are doing things they would now support.

The people who work for the FBI are often not smart people. They don't realize that trust is absolutely necessary in a democracy. They have often in the past not shown understanding of the other needs of democracy. They have often acted like secret police. They often believe in killing or other ways of being destructive as a way of curing some ill in society.

Now they will be attacking computers like the criminals. They will say that they are doing it only to solve crimes, but it is socially impossible to control this kind of thing. Once the principle is established that a secret agency can break the law, there is in practice no limit to what some people in that agency might feel "justified" in doing. Consider your own experience. When has the boss had complete knowledge and complete control over the actions of employees? Never. A company's only good policy is to hire open and honest people and to encourage honesty and genuine caring.

The FBI's influence will mean that the U.S. taxpayer's money will become a powerful force in preserving security holes, instead of closing them. Generally, this kind of software has had holes of its own. You may be attacked by a cracker exploiting a security hole created by FBI software. Governments will detect FBI snooping software and feed the FBI erroneous information.

This is all support for people who like snooping and sneaking. It is not actually a way to reduce crime. It is for adults who like to treat the whole world as a video game. It is for the kind of people who think of themselves as James Bond, who like the idea of being able to kill other people legally.


How U.S. government policy contributed to terrorism: What should be the Response to Violence?

Remember the Constitution!

[ZosX]

Do our constitutional rights even exist anymore?

Owning a weapon is a priviledge, let alone owning a weapon and carrying it on your person. "The right to bear arms." You need specific reason now to carry a concealed weapon, why is that? I'm an american citizen, if I want to carry a .45 in my pocket, the constitution says I can, the government tells me I'm breaking the law......

Sorry using an example of the breakdown of our constitutional rights.

This really disturbs me. Between Carnivore and now Magic Lantern, we have pretty much given up all rights to privacy on the internet. I know that most of you will say that its been likely that the government has been monitoring traffic for some time anyways secretly, now we are publically accepting this as "ok in the name of our safety." Don't think they monitor your cell phone calls? Explain how they got voice recordings of the conversations of the doomed flight to Sommerset, PA.

This is disgusting. We are just handing over our freedom and very few people are saying a word. Funny how not all that long ago, the Supreme court ruled that aquiring search warrants based upon thermal readings from a house was illegal and yet they haven't said a word about anything the FBI has been doing.

Its really fscking sad that the alleged "war on terrorism" is really just a lame excuse to quickly remove a good deal of our rights. People in New York City are being searched randomly in Manhattan. What the hell is that? In 10 years can I expected to be searched if I walk down my street? If I have something illegal, is the search unreasonable, or does the court care more about me just having something illegal? If our phones and computers are tapped (lets assume for the moment that they are for the most part) where does the government stop? They can see what I am writing and talking about....why shouldn't they be allowed to see what I am doing in my home without a search warrant? The best part of it is, nobody would even know if they were being watched. I know this has been something people have complained about over the years (as the government has slowly crept into their privacy), but now its really in our faces. 1984 is not very far away indeed.

Let's take Magic Lantern for instance. If one were to disassemble it, it would violate the DMCA ruling. If one were to circumvent it (which likely anyone in their right mind will), the techniques used would likely violate DMCA. (Remember Skylarov?.....)
Can anyone think of software they might use that might possibly violate the DMCA ruling? I can think of a few, and I am not talking about cracking software. Also this makes me wonder about Windows....does DMCA make WINE illegal?

Indeed, the whole issue is a lot like a runaway train coming down the hill. People see it from the distance and don't realize how dire their situation is and eventually the train comes pummeling down into their sleepy little town and destroys it. I wonder how long before we lose all faith in the government entirely. Too bad we decided that we are too weak and lazy to take the government back into our own hands. What's so sad is that the more disillusioned we become with our government the more likely we will feel that it is out of our control. Judging by the recent elections and the completely disgusting turnout, it seems we are just about there. What do we do in 10 years when we don't even have enough voters voting to elect an official?

Its really time to either:

A) Do something about the slippery path we have slid on

or

B) Walk away from it, buy a huge ranch/estate/tract of land, start a community of like minded individuals, and ignore what the government does. I suggest some western states that do not tax their land so you can totally live government free. :)

Just some random infuriating thoughts I've had lately.....

Zos/Xavius.23
zos[@]winwood.net

Art is the realization of truth - AOS

Logical

[heikkile]

Of course McAffee et al wanted a signature for the thing, and this was the best way to formulate the question. Besides, now they can produce a spevif Lantern-detector, and sell under the counter for a high price - and sell the names of the buyers to FBI. Ah the beauty of the free market...