The History Of FreeCiv

dizzyPhoenix writes: "O'reilly net is running an article on FreeCiv and how the game came about." As is often true on O'Reillynet, the article's well-thought and interesting reading.

Comments

1p!

[Anonymous Coward]

If clear thinking created sparks, we could safely store dynamite in Jon Katz's office.

JTFTR

[Anonymous Coward]

Just Trolling For Teryl Rothery

Re:JTFTR

[Anonymous Coward]

wow! that chick is the B movie queen!
And good-looking too. I'd love to stick my tongue up her butthole.

Re:JTFTR

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you dare speak ill of my sweet Teryl! She is a gorgeous goddess of the screen, and the foxiest lady on the hit sci-fi show Stargate SG-1. Your tongue does nto DESERVE her butthole!

Re:JTFTR

[Anonymous Coward]

Pffff

Re:JTFTR

[Anonymous Coward]

blasphemer!! There is noone before Teryl!!!!

The REAL history of Freeciv

[autocracy]

It came with my Mandrake distro. I played it. Then I went online, and played against other people. I got my ass whooped. Then I got beat again (and again, and again, and again). That's the history of Freeciv (from where I'm sitting).

Re:The REAL history of Freeciv

[TomK32]

That's why I played it only once (that and the bad graphics), I prefer to play with my Railroad (Tycoon) or TEG (Risc clone)

Re:The REAL history of Freeciv

[kimihia]

And you know what is most embarassing? You can get a log of your ass getting whooped at civserver.freeciv.org. With crunchy graphs, and meaty maps.

Better art?

[Chardish]

The game's "wish list" includes "better art."

When are people going to learn that it's not art that makes the game? And sometimes it's what slows down the game? Freeciv is a marvelous program with art comparable to Civ2. Why do we need better?

Is it because we've become too eyecandyish of a gaming society?

-Chardish

Re:Better art?

[Wonda]

If you are displaying pictures anyway (which they do) putting better images in will not slow it down, and better looking games do sell better, so i guess it matters to some people. I think game play is more important, but they did that part first, so they're doing things in the right order :)

Re:Better art?

[yobbo]

yes it's not art that makes the game.

but why play a crap looking game when you can play a beautiful looking one?

Re:Better art?

[kafka93]

If Linux is ever going compete with Windows on the desktop (don't laugh), then attention to eye-candy is essential. While it's doubtless true that great gameplay doesn't necessarily demand great graphics, it's also true that many games benefit a great deal from them. The whole "gameplay vs. bells-and-whistles" debate has raged ever since computer games first started to appear; in the meantime, computer games have continued to advance in terms of visuals and sound. And the situation right now is that there are a number of very good games for Windows that _do_ have fantastic graphics; given that, why would anybody choose to play more rudimentary Linux-based games?

The great thing about Linux is that the options are always going to exist: a parallel with this issue is the desktop, which continues to become more sophisticated (via KDE/Gnome/etc.) - but where it's still entirely possible to run older setups, modify/roll your own desktop, or do away with an X environment entirely. Equally, the appearance of graphically impressive games isn't going to take anything away from the games that already exist; it's only going to provide the user with more oprions.

Re:Better art?

[Yokaze]

Because some like playing a crap looking game with a good gameplay more than playing a beautiful looking one with a crappy gameplay.

Limited (human) resources given, you usually have to choose between those two.

Why not have money and free time? :)

Re:Better art?

[Lars T.]

Did anybody read the article? They have an abundance of programmers, but hardly any artists. The two groups are mostly disjunct. Adding "art" would not make the game worse. Hell, they have two almost finished sound systems but no sounds.

Re:Better art?

[gedanken]

I haven't seen the code but I am willing to bet that the game's graphics can be upgraded without changing the gameplay.

Art may not make the game but it does play a significant part in the total expierence. Why do we need better you ask? Simple - because we can have better.

This isn't an instance where we have a game where its graphics were made first and the game was designed around it. On the contrary we already have an established game where we have the option of improving its visual appeal.

What makes you so special as to prevent people from wanting better than what they have?

Re:Better art?

[wrinkledshirt]

While I agree that gameplay is key, if you want to truly immerse a player you've got to give them a complete experience, and that means everything, gameplay, art, sound, story, etc. Immersion means overwhelming the player with just enough believable details and giving payoffs at the right time, while making sure that none of this detracts from gameplay.

If other commercial developers were as willing to face their own shortcomings (ie: gameplay & story) the way these guys are willing to face theirs (art & sound), we'd all be singing about what a wonderful world this was.

Re:Better art?

[thue]

I haven't seen the code but I am willing to bet that the game's graphics can be upgraded without changing the gameplay.

The isometric engine is compatible with the civ II one. We got the current isometric graphics from a civ II mod pack. You can pretty easily convert the civ II standard gfx (which people seem to like) for use with freeciv. Of course those can't be distributed due to copyright.

freeciv with civ II gfx

(I coded the Freeciv isometric view.)
Note how Freeciv has goto lines and Fog of War displayed, unlike civ II. :)

Re:Better art?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you.

Most programmers are not artists (of the traditional sort.)

They will not suddenly drop their coding and take up addressing the art... and it certainly will not make the gameplay suffer.

It is another ELEMENT that needs work.

Re:Better art?

[Jacek Poplawski]

but why play a crap looking game when you can play a beautiful looking one?
Sometime adding graphics is hard, becouse it needs a lot of work, so you have to choose - write better code or spend time creating graphics, sounds, and music.
Please look at nethack - it's awesome, with no gfx/sound at all, now compare it with fallout or diablo - and remember, that nethack is opensource .
You can also try other roguelike games. Yes - there are frontends, but they appear long after games were playable.

Re:Better art?

[wheany]

How in the hell does adding better art to freeciv suddenly make the gameplay crappy? "Hey I know, while we're at it, let's remove all the keyboard shortcuts, and make the units go into random directions when moving"

Re:Better art?

[Cheetah86]

What about quake3? Its gameplay is basicly a cookiecutter deathmatch fps(run around, kill, pick up powerups/ammo/weapons, repeat), but its still an incredible game due to its graphics.

Re:Better art?

[Yokaze]

No, it wouldn't make it (necessarily) worse.
Better artwork would surely be positive.
But better graphics usually doesn't mean better artwork alone. Changes might include a new graphics engine, or generally a new UI, a.s.o.
This could _potentially_ lead to worse gameplay.

Re:Better art?

[Salamander]

When are people going to learn that it's not art that makes the game?

Did anybody say that it was art that made the game? No. Hell, I've been playing Slime Volleyball recently. It has some of the lamest, most childish graphics I've ever seen, but it also has very engaging game play. Nonetheless, better graphics in both SV and FC would be nice, and their implementation needn't affect the game play one bit.

Re:Better art?

[Rogerborg]

• Hell, I've been playing Slime Volleyball

You bastard! I thought I was doing great when I finally won - then I realised there was a level 2... Can I sue to to get my life back?

Re:Better art?

[Patrix]

hi thue! long-time no see!

as for Freeciv having stuff civII doesn't have, sure, but civIII's out now,and it just rocks :P)

Re:Better art?

[redcliffe]

What is needed is a group of open source artists. They don't need to be attached to any given project, but as a team, they would move from project to project to work on artistic stuff on each. Musicians, sound people, and graphical artists would be needed. If such a team could be formed it would be a boon for open source development.

Re:Better art?

[mgblst]

You are one of those people that try to deliberately NOT understand someone. In designing a game you have a limited number of resources, do you spend it on graphics or gameplay.

Of course, perhape artists dont view the world like programmers, and dont like to give things away for free!

Re:Better art?

[Anonymous Coward]

First, define what is meant by better art, ok?

Would it be wrong for the art to be more clear, more distinctive, or less jarring? My answer is no. It's stupid to assume that better must equal more bloated.

Re:Better art?

[Lars T.]

I can see this being a problem for commercial games, but an Open Source game's resources are only limited by the interest from contributors - and maybe by management issues (IOW "This is too much for me to handle"). The problem is that you have too little of a specific kind of resource.

Re:Better art?

[wheany]

Parent is at 0, so:

You are one of those people that try to deliberately NOT understand someone. In designing a game you have a limited number of resources, do you spend it on graphics or gameplay.

Well, if the programming has already been done, how would adding better graphics suddenly make the gameplay worse?

Re:Better art?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, the art looks as if a programmer made it and not a professional artist. You can make better looking art and keep the same image size and bit depth.

Re:Better art?

[FauxPasIII]

>> Is it because we've become too eyecandyish of a gaming society?

Witness DoA3

Re:Better art?

[thue]

I will try civ II when they release the linux version :P.

Re:Better art?

[thue]

I meant civ III, not civ II...

Re:Better art?

[Anonymous Coward]

Free Xbox at www.mygamer.com

A civ game is being run right now for /.ers

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's do some stress test on freeciv server :-P

Hey there

[Anonymous Coward]

Just trolling in the name of Julien Garneau-Proulx!

Behold! The Taco-snotting FAQ 1.11!!

[George WIPO Bush]

THE OFFICIAL TACO-SNOTTING FAQ
By The WIPO Troll, $Revision: 1.11 $

Why have I been receiving emails from CmdrTaco, in which he seems to be speaking in some kind of code language?

Whenever Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda gets bored (and who wouldn't, running a site like Slashdot all day), he roams through the Slashdot database, penis in hand, looking for people who might enjoy engaging in homosexual orgies with him. How he determines this is anyone's guess; but if you have a homosexual-sounding nickname, or a nick with the letter P in it, you're in trouble.

So this time, he found you. Lucky you.

CmdrTaco's code language is relatively easy to decipher. He prefers to speak in thinly-veiled sexual innuendo to evade the watchful (but relatively stupid) eye of Slashdot's parent corporation, VA Software. CmdrTaco's "Commander" is, of course, his penis -- a small, withered little thing that lives in his pants that only comes out in the presence of other men or at the beck and call of CmdrTaco's own right hand. His "Taco bells" are the shriveled testes that droop beneath his Commander, and his "Taco sauce" is his, well, jizz. It should be more than obvious to you now what he means when he asks you to "ring his Taco bells" or "taste his gourmet Taco sauce."

Lastly, there is a practice he refers to as "Taco-snotting" and the more shocking "circle-snot."

Good Lord. What is "Taco-snotting?"

"Taco-snotting" is the term used by CmdrTaco to refer to the practice of sucking the penis of a homosexual man (or unwilling heterosexual; CmdrTaco is rumored to prefer rape), then blowing the semen out his nose onto his partner's (victim's) face and body. A long, bubbly stream of milky-white semen is left on CmdrTaco's face, dribbling out of his nose and down his cheek: hence the term, "Taco-snotting."

A "circle-snot" is a Taco-snotting circle-jerk, another practice common among the Slashdot crew. CmdrTaco, CowboiKneel, and Homos get together and Taco-snot each other with their gooey, sticky cum -- spooging their jizz-snot all over each other's faces and pasty, white bodies, until they're covered head to toe with each other's man juice. This can go on for hours. For the homosexual penetration that follows this lengthy foreplay, Roblowme is usually there to provide plenty of anal lubricant; he owns a limo service and has ample supplies of motor oil and axle grease ready to go.

To complete this perverted orgy, fellow geeks Michael, Timothy, and Jamie will usually join in, dressed in tight leather mock-S.S. uniforms, jack boots, and leather gloves. The whole group then proceeds to snot each other's spunk and whip each other's pudgy asses with riding crops and chains until their pale, white geek bodies are exhausted and soaked in stinking sweat from the hours of passionate, homosexual revelry.

Ewwwwww. So, can I stop receiving these emails?

Hopefully.

You most likely forgot to uncheck the "Willing to Taco-snot" checkbox in your account preferences. CmdrTaco has probably already got the hots for your wad, and he's probably already been lurking outside your bathroom window for weeks with a camera, some tissues and lube. There's no escaping a geek in heat, so it's probably too late for you, but you can possibly rectify this situation. To remove yourself from CmdrTaco's sights, log into your Slashdot account, go to your user page, click on Messages, and uncheck the box next to "Willing to Taco-snot." Maybe he'll ignore you. Probably not.

I can't stop receiving these emails from CmdrTaco!?

If you indulge him in a Taco-snot or two, he might leave you alone. You might also want to look into mail filtering, restraining orders, or purchasing a heavy, blunt object capable of warding off rampaging homosexual geeks in heat. Trust me, when they charge... oh, the humanity. If he gets you, and you let him Taco-snot you, you will most likely end up tied up in his basement to be used as his sex slave for the rest of your life (or until he accidentally drowns you in spunk in a circle-snot).

Have you ever been Taco-Snotted?

Unfortunately, yes. I first met CmdrTaco at an Open Source Convention. He invited me back to his room for a game of Quake and some "gourmet Tacos," but when I got there, he jumped me and tied me to his bed, stripping me. After taking his "Commander" out of his pants, Mr. Taco made me suck the withered thing six times. He then performed his vile Taco-snotting ritual on me three times over the next two hours, bringing me to orgasm after sweaty, mind-numbing orgasm... then he snotted my own milky-white jizz back onto my face, into my mouth, then again on my exposed belly.

CmdrTaco invited several of his Open Source (or rather, "Open Sauce" -- man sauce) buddies over to continue the twisted snotfest. Linux Torvalds raped my ass with his "monolithic kernel," and Anal Cox used his "network stack" in a multitude of unspeakable ways on and in every orifice in my defenseless body. Michael was there in his leather Nazi uniform, caning my ass with a bamboo pole and ranting about "all those Censorware freaks out to get him."

How did you finally escape, you ask? After about 16 hours of countless homosexual atrocities perpetrated against my restrained body, they all finally went to sleep on top of me, sweat-soaked and exhausted. I was left there, covered in bubbly, translucent jizz-snot, chained to the bed, with half a dozen fat, pasty-white fags lying around and on top of me. Fortunately the spooge coating my flesh worked wonderfully as a lubricant; I was able to squirm my way out of the handcuffs and slip out the back door. I'm just glad I survived the ordeal. These geeks had a lot of built-up spunk in their wads -- I could've easily been drowned!

That's horrible. Does "Taco-snotting" have anything to do with CmdrTaco's "special taco"?

No, that's a different disgusting perversion CmdrTaco indulges himself in. CmdrTaco is usually not satisfied with merely snotting your own jizz back onto your face, he most often enjoys involving his own bodily fluids in his twisted games. WeatherTroll has spent some time trying to educate the Slashdot readership about this vile practice (emphasis added):

You may be wondering what CmdrTaco's "special taco" is. You will be wishing that you hadn't been wondering after you finish reading this post. To make his "special taco", CmdrTaco takes a taco shell and shits on it. He then adds lettuce, jacks off on the taco, and adds a compound to make the person who eats the taco unconscious. Of course, the compound does not make the person unconscious until the taco is fully eaten. Thus CmdrTaco force-feeds the taco to the unsuspecting victim.

After the victim is unconscious, he is held against his will and used for CmdrTaco's nefarious sexual purposes. This includes shoving taco shells up the victim's ass, Taco-snotting, and getting Jon Katz involved.

Completely different, yet no less revolting. It should be clear to you now that CmdrTaco is a very, very sick individual, as are most of the Slashdot editors.

Does Jon Katz get involved in any of this? I thought he was a paedophile, not a homosexual.

Actually, Jon Katz is a homosexual paedophile. He's also a coprophiliac, and, many suspect, a zoophile. Jon Katz is somewhat of a loner and doesn't involve himself in circle-snots. Mr. Katz usually engages in a game called " Katz juicy-douching" with his harem of little-boy slaves: a vile practice which involves administering an enema to himself of the little boy's urine (forced out of them with a pair of pliers), spooging the vile muck from his ass back into the enema bag, then squirting and slathering the goo all over himself, and the little boy's chained-up and naked bodies. If he's in the mood, he will sometimes skip refilling the enema bag and just squirt it from his ass onto his boys. Unwilling boys are further tortured with the pliers until they comply and allow Mr. Katz to juicy-douche them for the rest of their lives.

As I already said, Mr. Katz is also a zoophile. As if the sexual escapades with the helpless little boys aren't enough, Jon usually enjoys his juicy-douches best when his penis is firmly planted in a female goat's anus. He is also rumoured to get off on watching his little boys eat the goat's small, bean-like turds.

...Are you getting hard writing this?

Why, yes. :) Join me in a WIPO-snot?

No, thanks. I'm already CmdrTaco's boi toi.

________________________________________
READER COMMENTS

1. Re:The Taco-Snotting FAQ Rides Again!! (Updated so (Score:0)
   by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.25 9:14 (#2609574)
   
   try to find a pic of actual "taco-snotting"! fucking funny it would be! so go to gay porn sites day in and day out until you find a man giving another man a blowjob that has jizz coming out of his nose and mouth. by the way, keep up the good work

2. Re:Snotting another first!! (Score:0)
   by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.23 12:18 (#2603370)
   
   WIPO, this is getting waaaay old, either drop it or revise it.... there've been no updates for days now...
   
   CmdrTaco

3. Re:It's Taco SPAM!!! (Score:0)
   by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.22 17:28 (#2600815)
   
   A truly excellent and very humourous troll indeed!
   However...
   
   To complete this perverted orgy, fellow geeks Michael, Timothy, and Jamie often join in, dressed in black Gestapo uniforms, jack boots, and leather gloves.
   
   Black GeStaPo uniforms? The GeStaPo (Geheime Staatspolizei - Secret State Police) wore civilian clothes (although there are reports on them occasionally using Allgemeine SS uniforms in occupied territories).
   
   I seriously doubt that perverted individuals like CmdrTaco et al would have the good taste to ever wear the outstandingly beautiful black Waffen SS uniforms! Please update the FAQ accordingly.
   • Re:It's Taco SPAM!!! (Score:0)
     by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.23 4:06 (#2602610)
     
     Actually, it appears you are both wrong!! Ah ha!! I think our boy WIPO was thinking of the Allgemeine SS uniforms. Waffen SS were grey.

4. Re:Microsoft's Taco-Snotting Connection (Score:-1, Troll)
   by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.21 4:49 (#2594325)
   
   oh yeah, you say you have masturbated only 2 times to this post. well, by the time it takes for me to get through reading it, i usually end up masturbated 5 to 6 times, 10 to 12 if i have the goatse.cx homepage loaded up and am looking at it side by side with the slashdot page. my keyboard, hands, mouse, monitor, the underside of my desk and around the floor under my desk are cum soaked and sticky with the man smell i know and love.

5. Re:Microsoft's Taco-Snotting Connection (Score:0)
   by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.21 4:41 (#2594311)
   
   for version 2 you should make a total re-write of the cod...errr...text and add some details about cmdrtaco and the homo-gang's happenings with their coworkers (osdn?) and all of the gay revelry they enjoy and promote. by the way, did i just see cmdrtaco on television promoting the nax hair removal system? i guess after using vaseline in and around his ass he grew quite a ponytail and it had to be removed somehow...ouch!

6. Re:Microsoft's Taco-Snotting Connection (Score:-1, Troll)
   by TRoLLaXoR on 2001.11.21 3:59 (#2594191)
   
   WIPO, do you notice how few comments you get for anything you write/post/spam nowadays?
   
   -Trollaxor

7. Jon-Katz docking (Score:-1)
   by sales_worldwide on 2001.11.20 11:53 (#2588488)
   
   You forgot to mention Jon Katz's "docking" games, where he places his chopper head to head with another chap, and rolls the other guys foreskin over his own circumcised end ("docking"), providing him with fantasies of actually having his own forskin ...
   "Making linux GPL was the best thing I ever did" - Torvalds. I'd hate to see the worst thing...

8. Re:Snotting a first! (Score:-1)
   by Fucky the troll on 2001.11.20 11:28 (#2588446)
   
   Woah! When did the WIPO troll get freed? And how the fuck did I miss it?
   
   Excellent FP, sir.
   
   This is a sig virus. Please put me in your sig

9. Re:Snotting a first! (Score:-1, Troll)
   by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.20 11:04 (#2588407)
   
   omg that is crapflooding material if i ever saw it!!!!!! and u got a first post!!!! whoot to the wipo troll!!!

10. GW, please.... (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.19 9:03 (#2583756)
    
    GW...you know we love every hair on your 27 acre ass... and I, for one, would never do anything untowards your graceful demeanor. And you probably have several friends that would love to help you do the bear dance all over my face if I so much as spelled your name wrong. And you know I'd defend your Constitutional right to defame God in heaven. I'd even help fund your education, should you ever decide to take that route. Hell, I'd buy you a tall tepid bear-whiz beer if you were here with me, right now!
    
    But. ...if you can't find another topic, I'm gonna step over your dead mother's grave and kick your assuredly anesthetitized butt clear across the playground.
    
    Now go stick your shaved head back down inside the woman's toilet, and just to show there's no hard feelings, I'll jump in the tow-truck and drive right over to help you pull it right out...ok?
    
    thanks

11. Re:Help me Taco-Snotters!! (Score:-1)
    by mark knopfler 69 on 2001.11.19 8:25 (#2583695)
    
    I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU SIR. FOR ONE THING, THE E-MAIL FROM CMDRTACO DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH GRAMMATICAL AND SPELLING MISTAKES. Let's be realistic here, CmdrTaco usually types with one hand, and since he is shaking from jacking off his aim on the keyboard isn't too good. Those e-mails were a little too well written. Sorry boy, you'll have to do better.

12. Re: What the hell is "taco snotting"? (Score:-1)
    by WeatherTroll on 2001.11.19 8:14 (#2583667)
    
    You should update this to say VA Software instead of VA Linux.

13. YOU ARE WINNER (Score:1)
    by smackmonkey on 2001.11.19 7:06 (#2583510)
    
    Crackhead moderators: this is +5, Hilarious material.
    
    --
    CNN declares War on Islam!
    Left-wing America declares War on its Civil Liberties!

14. Re:On Taco-Snotting 1.9 (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.19 5:40 (#2583336)
    
    This was funny the first 100 times. Now it is getting boring!

15. Digusting and Shameful (Score:-1)
    by egg troll on 2001.11.18 22:27 (#2582054)
    
    Having masturbated *twice* to this post, I'm still incredibly aroused! Come over for a Taco Snot. I'll be wearing my crotchless Clifford the Big Red Dog outfit!!
    
    For more info check out this /. article

16. IMPROVE THE FAQ (Score:-1, Flamebait)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.18 12:03 (#2580822)
    
    add more links to goatse and to cowboineal's site to make it better. a link to rotten.com would be nice too
    • Re:IMPROVE THE FAQ (Score:0)
      by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.18 12:18 (#2580832)
      
      and a link to michael's site and to jon katz's site if he has one and homo's site. i dont know what else to say. maybe a few links to phallic.org they have nice penis pictures! a link to the planet quake site or whatever. really make the reader feel this faq really answers their questions. oh yeah, and when you talk about cmdrtaco snotting you, say he brought you to "orgasm after sweaty orgasm". describe it more is all i'm saying. and use more italics and bolding! and when you talk about jon katz shitting or whatever have a link to fecal japan on rotten.com
      
      other wise a great job wipo troll! keep up the good work!

17. Re:CmdrTaco's filthy secret! (Score:-1)
    by Wil Wheaton on 2001.11.18 6:41 (#2580438)
    
    Hi. Let's be buddies.. butt buddies.
    --
    WIL WHEATON DOT NET

18. WIPO speaks the truth (Score:-1)
    by dead_puppy on 2001.11.18 5:33 (#2580342)
    
    Here is an e-mail I received a week ago:
    
    From: malda@slashdot.org
    To: puppy_dead@hotmail.com
    Subject: were where you last friday? :(
    
    I thought we where supposed to meet at Backdoor's at 8-ish, sugar-lips? You could've at least told me that you could'nt make it! I was even in my favorite pink skirt for you, honey-cup... next time, you could be more considarite and tell me you cant come... bastard.
    
    --
    CmdrTaco (malda@slashdot.org)
    
    You finding Ling-Ling's head?

19. Taco snotting is WRONG!!! (Score:-1)
    by Big_Ass_Spork on 2001.11.18 4:53 (#2580300)
    
    I do it wrong
    
    Laying here in the shadows of my room, I squint up at my love. My Ms. Portman. I am sore and tired after fucking her for eight solid hours. My chapped and aching dick is soaking in grits to relieve the pain. She gets on her knees and starts lapping the grits up out of the bowl. She places her beautiful hands on my penis and starts to lick the grits off my achy piece.
    
    Massaging my nutsack she....
    
    WAIT, I DO IT WRONG!!!!
    
    Yanking my dick out of her mouth I throw her to the ground and shove it in to her gaping freshly fisted ass. [goatse.cx]
    
    "OH BIG ASS SPORK!! Fuck my ass, fuck my ass good. DEEPER, my stallion, deeper!! Make a Beowulf cluster of sperm on my back!!"
    
    "Imagine a Beowulf cluster of this baby!"
    
    I DO IT WRONG!!!!
    
    ---
    All your Sporks are belong to Big_Ass_Spork! What you say?! All your Sporks are belo... forget it...

20. Rob Malda Dead at age 25! (Score:-1)
    by j0nkatz on 2001.11.17 22:54 (#2579596)
    
    I just heard some sad news on the radio -- famous queerbait Rob Malda was found dead in his Holland home this morning. The details were a bit hazy, but it seems that he drowned in jizz while Taco Snotting his friend Hemos. I'm sure everyone in the /. community will miss him -- even if you didn't enjoy his queer antics and boring ass website, there's no denying his contributions to the homosesual cultural development, particularly in the areas of Taco snotting. Truly an American icon.
    
    I wanna Open Source sex so it won't be worth a shit either.

21. TACO-SNOTTING is really Donkey-Punching (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.15 6:38 (#2567601)
    
    No no no, the correct term for that is "donkey-punch". I have eye-witnessed this amazing eye-popping event demonstrated on unsuspecting hose-monsters by my frat brothers in the past.. . :-)

22. Re:the effect of knowlege laws... (Score:1)
    by AbsoluteRelativity on 2001.11.15 5:31 (#2567457)
    
    The WIPO Troll
    Slashdot and the Karma Lottery - News for uber monkeys, by uber monkeys.

23. Re:Taco-Snotting (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.13 9:27 (#2557632)
    
    Oh, man that's just sick !

24. HOW DO I GET AN ANONYMOUS PROXY? (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.13 9:03 (#2557604)
    
    TELL ME WHERE I CAN GET AN ANONYMOUS proxy please WIPO Troll. Maybe later i will join you in a snotting at my place. ;P

25. Re:Taco-Snottage!?!?!? (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by vikool on 2001.11.13 7:43 (#2557495)
    
    what is this bull shit,i feel offened that some people feel so so senseless to post stuff like these esp when such a tragic incident has occured

26. Re:Taco-felching!! (Score:-1)
    by I.T.R.A.R.K. on 2001.11.11 22:38 (#2551890)
    
    Where the fuck do I sign up?!
    
    - I throw rocks at retarded kids
    
    "Adequacy.org: Where congenital stupidity is not an option, but a requirement."

27. Re:Taco-felching!! (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 21:53 (#2551753)
    
    this shit is hilarious..keep up the good work.

28. Re:Taco-felching!! (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by rockwood on 2001.11.11 21:49 (#2551746)
    
    OMG! That is the most disgusting thing I have ever heard! WHo in their right mind would sit down and waste the time to construct such a replusive story. I guess I'll be skipping lunch and dinner today.. and possibly tomorrow also. The game doesn't affect reality. Reality affects the game.

29. Re:Ban this! It's disgusting!! (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 14:43 (#2550701)
    
    dude, this is crap-flood material if i ever saw it.
    duuuuuuuuudddddddddddddeeeeeeeee.

30. Re:Taco-Snotting = HATE SPEECH (Score:-1, Flamebait)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 8:16 (#2550266)
    
    horny_rob_6969@hotmail.com
    
    Ah, so that's what the alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.horny-rob newsgroup is about!

31. MOD THIS UP PLEASE!!! (Score:-1)
    by egg troll on 2001.11.11 5:34 (#2550024)
    
    +5, Arousing
    
    For more info check out this /. article

32. Re:Taco-Snotting = HATE SPEECH (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 4:39 (#2549891)
    
    WINNER>

33. Re:Taco-Snotting = HATE SPEECH (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 4:37 (#2549887)
    
    I love you. Why do you use your bitchslapped account, rather than signing up for a new account to post at +1 before getting bitchslapped by the censors here? I guess I should speak for myself, but I don't want to log out and lose all my slashdot customization properties, nor do I want to lose my 50 karma yet.

34. Re:On Taco-Snotting (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.09 9:19 (#2542412)
    
    you fucking rock! right down to the expanded cvs id!
    
    WIPO trolls > linux

________________________________________

• The URL of this document is http://slashdot.org/journal.pl? op=display &uid=267426 &id=2346.
• Previous revisions are maintained at http://slashdot.org/journal.pl? op=display &uid=308209.

$Id: tacosnotting.html,v 1.11 2001/11/25 15:40:22 wipo Exp $

Ringing CmdrTaco's TACO BELLS

[George WIPO Bush]

THE OFFICIAL TACO-SNOTTING FAQ
By The WIPO Troll, $Revision: 1.11 $

Why have I been receiving emails from CmdrTaco, in which he seems to be speaking in some kind of code language?

Whenever Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda gets bored (and who wouldn't, running a site like Slashdot all day), he roams through the Slashdot database, penis in hand, looking for people who might enjoy engaging in homosexual orgies with him. How he determines this is anyone's guess; but if you have a homosexual-sounding nickname, or a nick with the letter P in it, you're in trouble.

So this time, he found you. Lucky you.

CmdrTaco's code language is relatively easy to decipher. He prefers to speak in thinly-veiled sexual innuendo to evade the watchful (but relatively stupid) eye of Slashdot's parent corporation, VA Software. CmdrTaco's "Commander" is, of course, his penis -- a small, withered little thing that lives in his pants that only comes out in the presence of other men or at the beck and call of CmdrTaco's own right hand. His "Taco bells" are the shriveled testes that droop beneath his Commander, and his "Taco sauce" is his, well, jizz. It should be more than obvious to you now what he means when he asks you to "ring his Taco bells" or "taste his gourmet Taco sauce."

Lastly, there is a practice he refers to as "Taco-snotting" and the more shocking "circle-snot."

Good Lord. What is "Taco-snotting?"

"Taco-snotting" is the term used by CmdrTaco to refer to the practice of sucking the penis of a homosexual man (or unwilling heterosexual; CmdrTaco is rumored to prefer rape), then blowing the semen out his nose onto his partner's (victim's) face and body. A long, bubbly stream of milky-white semen is left on CmdrTaco's face, dribbling out of his nose and down his cheek: hence the term, "Taco-snotting."

A "circle-snot" is a Taco-snotting circle-jerk, another practice common among the Slashdot crew. CmdrTaco, CowboiKneel, and Homos get together and Taco-snot each other with their gooey, sticky cum -- spooging their jizz-snot all over each other's faces and pasty, white bodies, until they're covered head to toe with each other's man juice. This can go on for hours. For the homosexual penetration that follows this lengthy foreplay, Roblowme is usually there to provide plenty of anal lubricant; he owns a limo service and has ample supplies of motor oil and axle grease ready to go.

To complete this perverted orgy, fellow geeks Michael, Timothy, and Jamie will usually join in, dressed in tight leather mock-S.S. uniforms, jack boots, and leather gloves. The whole group then proceeds to snot each other's spunk and whip each other's pudgy asses with riding crops and chains until their pale, white geek bodies are exhausted and soaked in stinking sweat from the hours of passionate, homosexual revelry.

Ewwwwww. So, can I stop receiving these emails?

Hopefully.

You most likely forgot to uncheck the "Willing to Taco-snot" checkbox in your account preferences. CmdrTaco has probably already got the hots for your wad, and he's probably already been lurking outside your bathroom window for weeks with a camera, some tissues and lube. There's no escaping a geek in heat, so it's probably too late for you, but you can possibly rectify this situation. To remove yourself from CmdrTaco's sights, log into your Slashdot account, go to your user page, click on Messages, and uncheck the box next to "Willing to Taco-snot." Maybe he'll ignore you. Probably not.

I can't stop receiving these emails from CmdrTaco!?

If you indulge him in a Taco-snot or two, he might leave you alone. You might also want to look into mail filtering, restraining orders, or purchasing a heavy, blunt object capable of warding off rampaging homosexual geeks in heat. Trust me, when they charge... oh, the humanity. If he gets you, and you let him Taco-snot you, you will most likely end up tied up in his basement to be used as his sex slave for the rest of your life (or until he accidentally drowns you in spunk in a circle-snot).

Have you ever been Taco-Snotted?

Unfortunately, yes. I first met CmdrTaco at an Open Source Convention. He invited me back to his room for a game of Quake and some "gourmet Tacos," but when I got there, he jumped me and tied me to his bed, stripping me. After taking his "Commander" out of his pants, Mr. Taco made me suck the withered thing six times. He then performed his vile Taco-snotting ritual on me three times over the next two hours, bringing me to orgasm after sweaty, mind-numbing orgasm... then he snotted my own milky-white jizz back onto my face, into my mouth, then again on my exposed belly.

CmdrTaco invited several of his Open Source (or rather, "Open Sauce" -- man sauce) buddies over to continue the twisted snotfest. Linux Torvalds raped my ass with his "monolithic kernel," and Anal Cox used his "network stack" in a multitude of unspeakable ways on and in every orifice in my defenseless body. Michael was there in his leather Nazi uniform, caning my ass with a bamboo pole and ranting about "all those Censorware freaks out to get him."

How did you finally escape, you ask? After about 16 hours of countless homosexual atrocities perpetrated against my restrained body, they all finally went to sleep on top of me, sweat-soaked and exhausted. I was left there, covered in bubbly, translucent jizz-snot, chained to the bed, with half a dozen fat, pasty-white fags lying around and on top of me. Fortunately the spooge coating my flesh worked wonderfully as a lubricant; I was able to squirm my way out of the handcuffs and slip out the back door. I'm just glad I survived the ordeal. These geeks had a lot of built-up spunk in their wads -- I could've easily been drowned!

That's horrible. Does "Taco-snotting" have anything to do with CmdrTaco's "special taco"?

No, that's a different disgusting perversion CmdrTaco indulges himself in. CmdrTaco is usually not satisfied with merely snotting your own jizz back onto your face, he most often enjoys involving his own bodily fluids in his twisted games. WeatherTroll has spent some time trying to educate the Slashdot readership about this vile practice (emphasis added):

You may be wondering what CmdrTaco's "special taco" is. You will be wishing that you hadn't been wondering after you finish reading this post. To make his "special taco", CmdrTaco takes a taco shell and shits on it. He then adds lettuce, jacks off on the taco, and adds a compound to make the person who eats the taco unconscious. Of course, the compound does not make the person unconscious until the taco is fully eaten. Thus CmdrTaco force-feeds the taco to the unsuspecting victim.

After the victim is unconscious, he is held against his will and used for CmdrTaco's nefarious sexual purposes. This includes shoving taco shells up the victim's ass, Taco-snotting, and getting Jon Katz involved.

Completely different, yet no less revolting. It should be clear to you now that CmdrTaco is a very, very sick individual, as are most of the Slashdot editors.

Does Jon Katz get involved in any of this? I thought he was a paedophile, not a homosexual.

Actually, Jon Katz is a homosexual paedophile. He's also a coprophiliac, and, many suspect, a zoophile. Jon Katz is somewhat of a loner and doesn't involve himself in circle-snots. Mr. Katz usually engages in a game called " Katz juicy-douching" with his harem of little-boy slaves: a vile practice which involves administering an enema to himself of the little boy's urine (forced out of them with a pair of pliers), spooging the vile muck from his ass back into the enema bag, then squirting and slathering the goo all over himself, and the little boy's chained-up and naked bodies. If he's in the mood, he will sometimes skip refilling the enema bag and just squirt it from his ass onto his boys. Unwilling boys are further tortured with the pliers until they comply and allow Mr. Katz to juicy-douche them for the rest of their lives.

As I already said, Mr. Katz is also a zoophile. As if the sexual escapades with the helpless little boys aren't enough, Jon usually enjoys his juicy-douches best when his penis is firmly planted in a female goat's anus. He is also rumoured to get off on watching his little boys eat the goat's small, bean-like turds.

...Are you getting hard writing this?

Why, yes. :) Join me in a WIPO-snot?

No, thanks. I'm already CmdrTaco's boi toi.

________________________________________
READER COMMENTS

1. Re:The Taco-Snotting FAQ Rides Again!! (Updated so (Score:0)
   by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.25 9:14 (#2609574)
   
   try to find a pic of actual "taco-snotting"! fucking funny it would be! so go to gay porn sites day in and day out until you find a man giving another man a blowjob that has jizz coming out of his nose and mouth. by the way, keep up the good work

2. Re:Snotting another first!! (Score:0)
   by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.23 12:18 (#2603370)
   
   WIPO, this is getting waaaay old, either drop it or revise it.... there've been no updates for days now...
   
   CmdrTaco

3. Re:It's Taco SPAM!!! (Score:0)
   by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.22 17:28 (#2600815)
   
   A truly excellent and very humourous troll indeed!
   However...
   
   To complete this perverted orgy, fellow geeks Michael, Timothy, and Jamie often join in, dressed in black Gestapo uniforms, jack boots, and leather gloves.
   
   Black GeStaPo uniforms? The GeStaPo (Geheime Staatspolizei - Secret State Police) wore civilian clothes (although there are reports on them occasionally using Allgemeine SS uniforms in occupied territories).
   
   I seriously doubt that perverted individuals like CmdrTaco et al would have the good taste to ever wear the outstandingly beautiful black Waffen SS uniforms! Please update the FAQ accordingly.
   • Re:It's Taco SPAM!!! (Score:0)
     by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.23 4:06 (#2602610)
     
     Actually, it appears you are both wrong!! Ah ha!! I think our boy WIPO was thinking of the Allgemeine SS uniforms. Waffen SS were grey.

4. Re:Microsoft's Taco-Snotting Connection (Score:-1, Troll)
   by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.21 4:49 (#2594325)
   
   oh yeah, you say you have masturbated only 2 times to this post. well, by the time it takes for me to get through reading it, i usually end up masturbated 5 to 6 times, 10 to 12 if i have the goatse.cx homepage loaded up and am looking at it side by side with the slashdot page. my keyboard, hands, mouse, monitor, the underside of my desk and around the floor under my desk are cum soaked and sticky with the man smell i know and love.

5. Re:Microsoft's Taco-Snotting Connection (Score:0)
   by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.21 4:41 (#2594311)
   
   for version 2 you should make a total re-write of the cod...errr...text and add some details about cmdrtaco and the homo-gang's happenings with their coworkers (osdn?) and all of the gay revelry they enjoy and promote. by the way, did i just see cmdrtaco on television promoting the nax hair removal system? i guess after using vaseline in and around his ass he grew quite a ponytail and it had to be removed somehow...ouch!

6. Re:Microsoft's Taco-Snotting Connection (Score:-1, Troll)
   by TRoLLaXoR on 2001.11.21 3:59 (#2594191)
   
   WIPO, do you notice how few comments you get for anything you write/post/spam nowadays?
   
   -Trollaxor

7. Jon-Katz docking (Score:-1)
   by sales_worldwide on 2001.11.20 11:53 (#2588488)
   
   You forgot to mention Jon Katz's "docking" games, where he places his chopper head to head with another chap, and rolls the other guys foreskin over his own circumcised end ("docking"), providing him with fantasies of actually having his own forskin ...
   "Making linux GPL was the best thing I ever did" - Torvalds. I'd hate to see the worst thing...

8. Re:Snotting a first! (Score:-1)
   by Fucky the troll on 2001.11.20 11:28 (#2588446)
   
   Woah! When did the WIPO troll get freed? And how the fuck did I miss it?
   
   Excellent FP, sir.
   
   This is a sig virus. Please put me in your sig

9. Re:Snotting a first! (Score:-1, Troll)
   by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.20 11:04 (#2588407)
   
   omg that is crapflooding material if i ever saw it!!!!!! and u got a first post!!!! whoot to the wipo troll!!!

10. GW, please.... (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.19 9:03 (#2583756)
    
    GW...you know we love every hair on your 27 acre ass... and I, for one, would never do anything untowards your graceful demeanor. And you probably have several friends that would love to help you do the bear dance all over my face if I so much as spelled your name wrong. And you know I'd defend your Constitutional right to defame God in heaven. I'd even help fund your education, should you ever decide to take that route. Hell, I'd buy you a tall tepid bear-whiz beer if you were here with me, right now!
    
    But. ...if you can't find another topic, I'm gonna step over your dead mother's grave and kick your assuredly anesthetitized butt clear across the playground.
    
    Now go stick your shaved head back down inside the woman's toilet, and just to show there's no hard feelings, I'll jump in the tow-truck and drive right over to help you pull it right out...ok?
    
    thanks

11. Re:Help me Taco-Snotters!! (Score:-1)
    by mark knopfler 69 on 2001.11.19 8:25 (#2583695)
    
    I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU SIR. FOR ONE THING, THE E-MAIL FROM CMDRTACO DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH GRAMMATICAL AND SPELLING MISTAKES. Let's be realistic here, CmdrTaco usually types with one hand, and since he is shaking from jacking off his aim on the keyboard isn't too good. Those e-mails were a little too well written. Sorry boy, you'll have to do better.

12. Re: What the hell is "taco snotting"? (Score:-1)
    by WeatherTroll on 2001.11.19 8:14 (#2583667)
    
    You should update this to say VA Software instead of VA Linux.

13. YOU ARE WINNER (Score:1)
    by smackmonkey on 2001.11.19 7:06 (#2583510)
    
    Crackhead moderators: this is +5, Hilarious material.
    
    --
    CNN declares War on Islam!
    Left-wing America declares War on its Civil Liberties!

14. Re:On Taco-Snotting 1.9 (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.19 5:40 (#2583336)
    
    This was funny the first 100 times. Now it is getting boring!

15. Digusting and Shameful (Score:-1)
    by egg troll on 2001.11.18 22:27 (#2582054)
    
    Having masturbated *twice* to this post, I'm still incredibly aroused! Come over for a Taco Snot. I'll be wearing my crotchless Clifford the Big Red Dog outfit!!
    
    For more info check out this /. article

16. IMPROVE THE FAQ (Score:-1, Flamebait)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.18 12:03 (#2580822)
    
    add more links to goatse and to cowboineal's site to make it better. a link to rotten.com would be nice too
    • Re:IMPROVE THE FAQ (Score:0)
      by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.18 12:18 (#2580832)
      
      and a link to michael's site and to jon katz's site if he has one and homo's site. i dont know what else to say. maybe a few links to phallic.org they have nice penis pictures! a link to the planet quake site or whatever. really make the reader feel this faq really answers their questions. oh yeah, and when you talk about cmdrtaco snotting you, say he brought you to "orgasm after sweaty orgasm". describe it more is all i'm saying. and use more italics and bolding! and when you talk about jon katz shitting or whatever have a link to fecal japan on rotten.com
      
      other wise a great job wipo troll! keep up the good work!

17. Re:CmdrTaco's filthy secret! (Score:-1)
    by Wil Wheaton on 2001.11.18 6:41 (#2580438)
    
    Hi. Let's be buddies.. butt buddies.
    --
    WIL WHEATON DOT NET

18. WIPO speaks the truth (Score:-1)
    by dead_puppy on 2001.11.18 5:33 (#2580342)
    
    Here is an e-mail I received a week ago:
    
    From: malda@slashdot.org
    To: puppy_dead@hotmail.com
    Subject: were where you last friday? :(
    
    I thought we where supposed to meet at Backdoor's at 8-ish, sugar-lips? You could've at least told me that you could'nt make it! I was even in my favorite pink skirt for you, honey-cup... next time, you could be more considarite and tell me you cant come... bastard.
    
    --
    CmdrTaco (malda@slashdot.org)
    
    You finding Ling-Ling's head?

19. Taco snotting is WRONG!!! (Score:-1)
    by Big_Ass_Spork on 2001.11.18 4:53 (#2580300)
    
    I do it wrong
    
    Laying here in the shadows of my room, I squint up at my love. My Ms. Portman. I am sore and tired after fucking her for eight solid hours. My chapped and aching dick is soaking in grits to relieve the pain. She gets on her knees and starts lapping the grits up out of the bowl. She places her beautiful hands on my penis and starts to lick the grits off my achy piece.
    
    Massaging my nutsack she....
    
    WAIT, I DO IT WRONG!!!!
    
    Yanking my dick out of her mouth I throw her to the ground and shove it in to her gaping freshly fisted ass. [goatse.cx]
    
    "OH BIG ASS SPORK!! Fuck my ass, fuck my ass good. DEEPER, my stallion, deeper!! Make a Beowulf cluster of sperm on my back!!"
    
    "Imagine a Beowulf cluster of this baby!"
    
    I DO IT WRONG!!!!
    
    ---
    All your Sporks are belong to Big_Ass_Spork! What you say?! All your Sporks are belo... forget it...

20. Rob Malda Dead at age 25! (Score:-1)
    by j0nkatz on 2001.11.17 22:54 (#2579596)
    
    I just heard some sad news on the radio -- famous queerbait Rob Malda was found dead in his Holland home this morning. The details were a bit hazy, but it seems that he drowned in jizz while Taco Snotting his friend Hemos. I'm sure everyone in the /. community will miss him -- even if you didn't enjoy his queer antics and boring ass website, there's no denying his contributions to the homosesual cultural development, particularly in the areas of Taco snotting. Truly an American icon.
    
    I wanna Open Source sex so it won't be worth a shit either.

21. TACO-SNOTTING is really Donkey-Punching (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.15 6:38 (#2567601)
    
    No no no, the correct term for that is "donkey-punch". I have eye-witnessed this amazing eye-popping event demonstrated on unsuspecting hose-monsters by my frat brothers in the past.. . :-)

22. Re:the effect of knowlege laws... (Score:1)
    by AbsoluteRelativity on 2001.11.15 5:31 (#2567457)
    
    The WIPO Troll
    Slashdot and the Karma Lottery - News for uber monkeys, by uber monkeys.

23. Re:Taco-Snotting (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.13 9:27 (#2557632)
    
    Oh, man that's just sick !

24. HOW DO I GET AN ANONYMOUS PROXY? (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.13 9:03 (#2557604)
    
    TELL ME WHERE I CAN GET AN ANONYMOUS proxy please WIPO Troll. Maybe later i will join you in a snotting at my place. ;P

25. Re:Taco-Snottage!?!?!? (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by vikool on 2001.11.13 7:43 (#2557495)
    
    what is this bull shit,i feel offened that some people feel so so senseless to post stuff like these esp when such a tragic incident has occured

26. Re:Taco-felching!! (Score:-1)
    by I.T.R.A.R.K. on 2001.11.11 22:38 (#2551890)
    
    Where the fuck do I sign up?!
    
    - I throw rocks at retarded kids
    
    "Adequacy.org: Where congenital stupidity is not an option, but a requirement."

27. Re:Taco-felching!! (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 21:53 (#2551753)
    
    this shit is hilarious..keep up the good work.

28. Re:Taco-felching!! (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by rockwood on 2001.11.11 21:49 (#2551746)
    
    OMG! That is the most disgusting thing I have ever heard! WHo in their right mind would sit down and waste the time to construct such a replusive story. I guess I'll be skipping lunch and dinner today.. and possibly tomorrow also. The game doesn't affect reality. Reality affects the game.

29. Re:Ban this! It's disgusting!! (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 14:43 (#2550701)
    
    dude, this is crap-flood material if i ever saw it.
    duuuuuuuuudddddddddddddeeeeeeeee.

30. Re:Taco-Snotting = HATE SPEECH (Score:-1, Flamebait)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 8:16 (#2550266)
    
    horny_rob_6969@hotmail.com
    
    Ah, so that's what the alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.horny-rob newsgroup is about!

31. MOD THIS UP PLEASE!!! (Score:-1)
    by egg troll on 2001.11.11 5:34 (#2550024)
    
    +5, Arousing
    
    For more info check out this /. article

32. Re:Taco-Snotting = HATE SPEECH (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 4:39 (#2549891)
    
    WINNER>

33. Re:Taco-Snotting = HATE SPEECH (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.11 4:37 (#2549887)
    
    I love you. Why do you use your bitchslapped account, rather than signing up for a new account to post at +1 before getting bitchslapped by the censors here? I guess I should speak for myself, but I don't want to log out and lose all my slashdot customization properties, nor do I want to lose my 50 karma yet.

34. Re:On Taco-Snotting (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on 2001.11.09 9:19 (#2542412)
    
    you fucking rock! right down to the expanded cvs id!
    
    WIPO trolls > linux

________________________________________

• The URL of this document is http://slashdot.org/journal.pl? op=display &uid=267426 &id=2346.
• Previous revisions are maintained at http://slashdot.org/journal.pl? op=display &uid=308209.

$Id: tacosnotting.html,v 1.11 2001/11/25 15:40:22 wipo Exp $

2nd attempt to post - thanks invalid formkey!

[Anonymous Coward]

I couldn't pass up this obvious error in the article:

It being one of the more successful projects in the open source community, one would think after being in such active development for so long that Freeciv might rival its commercially-sold counterparts in quality and features. It does not, and similar strategy titles like Civilization II and Alpha Centauri clearly have slicker user interfaces, smarter AI, and generally better gameplay overall.

As anyone who was played Civilization III can tell you, FreeCiv is far superior to its commercial counterparts when it comes to quality. It may be behind in graphics, but most serious players aren't going to care about eye candy. When it comes to music, I think I prefer FreeCiv's silence over Civ3's awful music. The Civ3 sound effects are okay, but some of them are really annoying (some of the ships are too loud).

Two bugs in Civ3 that come to mind immediately are the fact that civilizations on the world map can not be made to start in their historic locations, instead you have stupid stuff like Japan starting in Africa, and Russia starting in California. Just plain stupid. The other bug that has given me problems is corruption is laughably unrealistic in Civ3. A city just one screen away will be practically unusable because of corruption -- a city two screens away is totally useless, even under Democracy. How is this realistic, or fun? It isn't. It's just plain stupid. You can tell that Civ3 is another game that the manufacturer decided to sell while it was still a beta test, rather than a 1.0 release.

So what is my point in all of this? My point is that instead of going to the store and spend $50 to beta test Civilization 3, instead we should help the community effort of FreeCiv. With Civilization 3 the entire user community is stuck with an unplayable game while we patiently wait for Firaxis to release a 1.0-quality version. But with FreeCiv we have the source code so we are not held at mercy to a company that couldn't care less. This is the strength of the GPL and why we should support FreeCiv.

Re:2nd attempt to post - thanks invalid formkey!

[Anonymous Coward]

Civ I, II, and III are all pretty much for faggots anyway. The problem is that the game is WAY too complex. They need to make it more simpler, expecially if they want to port it to PS2 or XBox.

Anyway, here is the simplest computer around, and the interface is perfect because we are all born with it - the interface is human DRIVE. The computer works like this: I stick my pee sprout in your mom's poop chute for 1, and I stick it in her pee hole for 0.

poop chute = 1
pee hole = 0

Sometimes I stick it in her mouth, but that is for parity.

Sometimes complex operations can take a long time to complete, but that's okay! We're looking for simplicity here, not speed. And waiting for this interface isn't that bad.

This simple computer is very susceptable to visuses. In fact, it comes pre-loaded with several.

For review:

poop chute = 1
pee hole = 0

This computer also fits into Microsoft's .Net strategy - namely, pay per use. It costs $10 per computation, or 15 minutes, whichever comes first.

poop chute = 1
pee hole = 0

Re:2nd attempt to post - thanks invalid formkey!

[Anonymous Coward]

FreeCiv is behind Civ2 in the quality of its AIs -- FreeCiv's AIs are in a constant state of war and don't have any real understanding of territory or aviation, so they're generally easy to dupe.

Re:2nd attempt to post - thanks invalid formkey!

[godscent]

There is a check box that lets you turn the music in Civ3 on or off.

Are you saying choice is bad?

Re:2nd attempt to post - thanks invalid formkey!

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe people are comparing FreeCiv to _authentic_ Sid Meier games like 'Alpha centari'

the Civilization 'franchise' was sold off for cash, which is why the 'civilization' branded games suck so much.

Alpha Centauri has made lightyear leaps in AI sophistication, unfortunately the AI is easier to fool, because you can 'negotiate' with it. EG:
"AI I would like to be your friend, let us declare war on those vile people to the north of you" If the AI hates them you'll be on good terms with them for 10 turns, be able to trade tech etc... and all this while instead of building up military you instead expand your population center and double-cross and kill off the 'former' allies because they Were fighting a war instead of expanding.

Stephen King, author, dead at 55

[Anonymous Coward]

I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Horror/Sci Fi writer Stephen King was found dead in his Maine home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.

Why freeciv?

[Naum]

I recently bought Civ3 but I still find myself playing freeciv as much if not more. Civ3 is a "pretty" game as far as graphics go (with the animations and all, though I still have a hard time distiniguishing gold from barbarian villages and a few other nuances) and there's been some nice improvements strategy wise. OTOH, Civ3 has evolved into "Civ for the masses" and to me thus far, there seems to be less variation in strategy (Age of Empires style tech tree, corruption, unforgivable bugs like tech trade exploits, air superiority bugs, etc. ...).

Anyway, here is a list of reasons why I'm still playing freeciv over civ3.

• Performance - my box is well above the "recommended" civ3 requirements and it generally runs good UNTIL the map is loaded up with units. Then it is a dog and I really miss the rapid keystroke progression possible with freeciv. I can complete a game in freeciv in the fraction of a time of a similar civ3 game.
  
• Superior user interface - I'll probaly get flamed here, but I prefer the freeciv interface. The civ3 GUI is "pretty", but civ style games are all about information. I hit F1 in freeciv, it pulls up a city report where I can easily examine and edit worklists, center on any city, sort by any possible report category and customize report, briefly scan for cities in state of disorder, instantly pop in the help browser informing me of what benefits of potential city improvments or what unit stats are for build consideration. Yes, it's sort of there in civ3 - but a lot of space is devoted to giving rows of bread icons instead of giving me a simple readout. And finding cities in civil disorder is a challenge - especially when I have a message log in freeciv, but that's all gone in civ3. And the civlopedia deal is nice in civ3, but it hits the CD drive and there is a second or two delay - not a lot but not the instant retrieval I'm accustomed to in freeciv. And not all of the unit commands are even labeled in freeciv or on the civlopedia. I guess it's a part of "safecopy" protection or something, but a lot of the unit commands are only available in the manual.
  
• Infinite customization - 61 civs to play with (current count), and you can easily add any tileset, ruleset, techset desired. The graphics are not the greatest, but you can easily change them and there are a variety of tilesets available now - and you can go with the isometric view or the old-style civ1 flat view. Instead of selecting from a general parameter palette (60%, 70%, 80% ocean coverage), you can set whatever generator percentages you desire - sure, some of the settings might be really wacky, but hey, it makes for much more replay value. And if you don't like something that can't be changed or added on by creating a new unit, building, tech ruleset, then you have the source so you can dive in and change however the game works for yourself.
• It runs on Linux - I usually am in Linux but reboot into Win-doze (like many others) for games - however, with freeciv available it allows me to play without rebooting. Freeciv is also available for a bunch of other platforms (Windows, BeOS, etc.), though I've not had experience with them.
  
• Improved multiplayer - freeciv was setup to be multiplayer. The AI is good - the "easy" AI is probaly too good - will smack down the inexperienced player, and the "hard" AI probaly isn't enough of a challenge for the expert player. Only negative is that the AI doesn't do diplomacy so it's either conquest victory or race to space (if enough map space for the number of opponents).
  

If I had the time, I would love to contribute to the freeciv project (I don't know current state of developers - I know that it is a dynamic deal, with new developers joining and old ones departing ), so I'm not sure if there is enough dedicated enthusiasm for development of a civ3 ruleset and/or revising the AI.

Re:Why freeciv?

[Salamander]

I'll probaly get flamed here, but I prefer the freeciv interface. The civ3 GUI is "pretty", but civ style games are all about information.

The interface in Civ3 is notably bad, so I doubt you'll find many people disagreeing with you. Some of my favorite gripes:

• Inability to use screen resolutions greater than (or less than) 1024x768, compounded by the availability of only two zoom levels.
• General visual sloppiness, making it hard to distinguish units (e.g. workers/spearmen, riflemen/infantry) or determine where cultural-influence borders are on some terrain.
• Lack of facilities to get information in the middle of a decision process, e.g. on an improvement/wonder/unit when choosing what to build from the city-management screen.
• Production menus that include dozens of items in a single non-hierarchical list, which is bad enough but gets worse when obsolete units (e.g. archers in the modern age) are included.
• Way too many poorly-documented command keys, especially for workers.
• Generally, way too many holes in the documentation - formulae (e.g. corruption, resistance) not specified, unit capabilities (e.g. precision bombing) never mentioned, visual items (e.g. red/yellow/white for city growth) and preferences (e.g. "city governor is default") never mentioned.
• A crappy AI, for which the game compensates by giving AI players huge production bonuses and you huge corruption.

I still love the game, I'm still hooked, there are some things - e.g. culture/trade/diplomacy - that have improved, but...but, overall, I think Civ2 might still be a better game. I haven't tried FreeCiv but, to the extent that it seems to resemble Civ2 quite closely, it seems like it might well be a better game than Civ3 too.

Re:Why freeciv?

[jsoderba]

* Inability to use screen resolutions greater than (or less than) 1024x768, compounded by the availability of only two zoom levels.

Read readme.txt:

• Ini file tweaks: The first time Civilization III is run, it will create a file called 'civilization3.ini'. The following lines can be added and allow you to tweak the game:
  • KeepRes=1 - When set to 1, your desktop resolution will be what the game uses. 1024x768 screens will be centered, but you will be able to see much more of the map on one screen.
  • Video Mode=1792 / Video Mode=1600 / Video Mode=1280 / Video Mode=1152 - Force screen resolution to one of these settings.

I agree with you on a lot of the other stuff. They should probably have waited until they had finished the game to print the manuals. But then, the Civ2 manual had errors too...

It would be nice to be able to mark units obsolete, like in SMAC.

There's supposed to be a patch before Christmas. Not that that's an excuse to ship a shoddy game.

Re:Why freeciv?

[joshsisk]

I have to admit, though I am playing it, Civ 3 is a disappointment. On many levels, it is inferior to SMAC or even Civ 2. I strongly get the impression they wanted to make it more mass-market friendly by simplifying everything... But it irks me they didn't allow the option of setting it to "Advanced" or something, for people who like more micromanagement.

Another annoying thing about it is they way that SOMETIMES, the game pops up a window to tell you when a city completes construction, and sometimes it just starts the next item for you... This, combined with the fact that only one city can build a wonder at a time, has caused me to lose out on a wonder when I realized that a population 2 city has been trying to build it for 20 turns when I have plenty of larger cities available.

Re:Why freeciv?

[Salamander]

Inability to use screen resolutions greater than (or less than) 1024x768...

Video Mode=1792 / Video Mode=1600 / Video Mode=1280 / Video Mode=1152

Cool, thanks!

It would be nice to be able to mark units obsolete, like in SMAC.

In a similar vein, it would be nice if they'd document the unit-upgrade paths and costs. Maybe they're mentioned somewhere, but not where they should be.

There's supposed to be a patch before Christmas. Not that that's an excuse to ship a shoddy game.

I agree. It's good to hear there'll be a patch soon, though, because there are many aspects of the interface that are just too bogus for a shipping product.

Re:Why freeciv?

[WWWWolf]

* Superior user interface - I'll probaly get flamed here, but I prefer the freeciv interface.

Hey, one of the local gaming mags reviewed Freeciv in May, and they too said that in some respects Freeciv's interface rocks when compared to Civ2 and CTP series.

Why? Civ1-style top-down view is very clear and unambiguous way of displaying the map, compared to the isometric maps in Civ2. (They actually complained about the screenshots of some development version that had an isometric view...)

And one of the biggest things I needed to get used to when I got Civ2 was the isometric map...

Re:Why freeciv?

[WWWWolf]

...and to correct myself: Yeah, the Freeciv client I just tried now has an isometric view. Curses! Now they ruined the game!

Re:Why freeciv?

[erlando]

Another annoying thing about it is they way that SOMETIMES, the game pops up a window to tell you when a city completes construction, and sometimes it just starts the next item for you...

This is not a bug. It's a feature. RTFM "City govenors". They sometimes have agendas of their own.

This, combined with the fact that only one city can build a wonder at a time, has caused me to lose out on a wonder when I realized that a population 2 city has been trying to build it for 20 turns when I have plenty of larger cities available.

Again RTFM. You can exclude a city from building wonders (great and small) on their own by adjusting the city-govenor settings.

Re:Why freeciv?

[joshsisk]

See, I find this to be a game design problem. I've never read a game manual and don't plan on starting. You shouldn't have to read a manual to play a video game. Everything you need should be in the UI.

Also, things like that should be able to be set in the main options screen. Upon first starting the game, I deselected the option "use default govenor", I assummed taht would let my micro-manage.

Re:Why freeciv?

[joshsisk]

Ugh, just fired it up to check out the govenor settings... Badly implemented. Why, oh why did they choose to have so many things accessable only by right clicking cities (this includes the fact that you can't see what's in a city without right-clicking now)?

To change these settings I have to go to each city and right click on it? By the end of a game, I might have over a hundred cities, I want my cities' vital info in the city screen. That way I can zip through them all in a quick fashion. At least give me the ability to skip to the next or previous city on any city-related screen.

The old system, where you could get to pretty much every piece of data or control via the function keys was worlds above this one, IMHO. I like to fly through the game, and having access to EVERYTHING via a few keys is important to me.

Re:Why freeciv?

[5KVGhost]

"I have to admit, though I am playing it, Civ 3 is a disappointment. On many levels, it is inferior to SMAC or even Civ 2."

Agreed. SMAC isn't perfect and did have some annoying bugs, but even in that state it was, IMHO, a much more polished product (interface, gameplay, and AI) than Civ III currently is.

As many have already said, Civ III has the feel of a game that just isn't quite done.

Re:Why freeciv?

[thue]

Start the client as "civclient --tiles trident" to use the old view.

Re:Why freeciv?

[nath_de]

But that's not really a problem as you can easily start with the old view...

Is FreeCiv historically accurate?

[Anonymous Coward]

HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF

+MONDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+MONDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*

+TUESDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+TUESDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*

+WEDNESDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+WEDNESDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*

+THURSDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+THURSDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*

+FRIDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+FRIDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*

+SATURDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+SATURDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*

+SUNDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: Today is the Lord's day.
+SUNDAY AFTERNOON+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*

Simultaneous Moves

[thue]

Another multiplayer issue stems from the fact that players makes their moves simultaneously. A battle unit in Freeciv has both an attack strength and a defense strength. During a multiplayer game, when two opposing units are placed close to each other at the end of a round, the game turns into an action game at the beginning of the next round, since each player wants to either attack or run away as quickly as possible. The only good solution to prevent this would be to disallow simultaneous movements. This, however, says Unold, "would turn the game into a boring waiting game."

If it was possible to manage your cities while the other players moved their units you might be able to minimize the waiting, while still having non-simultaneous moves.

A 2-player game could then go like this:
-player 1 moves his units.
-player 1 finished moving, and passes the control. The production in player 1's cities is updated, new structures build etc.
-player 2 moves his units. (player 1 can still manage his cities, and assign orders to his units, though move or attack orders will not take effect until it is his turn)
-player 2 finished moving, and passes the control. The production in player 2's cities is updated, new structures build etc.

etc.

Freeciv is long-term fun...

[DocSnyder]

Freeciv was the project to teach me how free-software development works, especially in a quite complex piece of software.

I remember playing Freeciv about three or four years ago: the client was based on libXaw, which is far from the GTK+ eye candy, and the AI was uncomparable to what it is today (yet still being improved). It even crashed and behaved obscurily. Since there wasn't any game of this kind running on GNU/Linux, I gave it a try. Nonetheless it was fun to play, and I was really happy when I won in a 100x60 map against three AI players for the first time, after playing for two weekends.

Some time later, the client has been ported to GTK+, matching my desktop theme and looking like most other applications. The AI became better (and harder to beat, as it behaved differently after a major upgrade), worklists and some other useful stuff went in. Freeciv got the space race and finally the isometric tiles.

The special fun on Freeciv is seeing it evolving over several years, getting a new version and see the differences, following the discussions on the developer mailinglist, even just "playing Lego" in single player mode with a 200x100 map is really fascinating.

It is rather wrong comparing Freeciv to any closed-source Civilization-like game, as most of the fun with Freeciv isn't available on proprietary games. If all you want is eye-candy, go with one of the eat-or-die Civ* variants. If you want to be in between the "making of" a great, complex and fascinating game, you're welcome to give it a try. :-)

gameplay, ui

[Anonymous Coward]

At the end of the article it says:

"It being one of the more successful projects in the open source community, one would think after being in such active development for so long that Freeciv might rival its commercially-sold counterparts in quality and features. It does not, and similar strategy titles like Civilization II and Alpha Centauri clearly have slicker user interfaces, smarter AI, and generally better gameplay overall."

The author doesn't mean quite what he says.

By 'slicker user interfaces', he means 'better graphics'.

By 'better gameplay overall', he means 'better graphics and sound' (Freeciv has no sound, so SMAC and Civ:CTP have better sound, unless you think that their sound is worse than no sound... which is a valid point of view)

Actually, I think FreeCiv has a much better user interface than old Civ games (certainly CivI/CivII and arguably SMAC) -- it just hasn't been rendered in pseudo-3D ;-(

The gameplay is, AFAICT, identical. And FreeCiv's AI isn't that bad - though it lacks diplomacy and doesn't handle air/missile. units yet.

FreeCiv

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't you homos get out of your houses and experience RealCiv?

Civ3 Ripped Off FreeCiv!

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't believe that in what is essentially a valentine written to FreeCiv, the author didn't mention the fact that Civ3 stole multiple innovations from FreeCiv. These include things like city production queues and the ability to trade non-like items (e.g. cities for technology) during negotation with other players. The latter improvement is really trumpeted in the Civ3 manual , so us open-source supporters should get some satisfcation from the fact that it has been available in FreeCiv for almsot a year now :)

Re:Civ3 Ripped Off FreeCiv!

[chazzf]

Be this as it may, Civilization II Multiplayer Gold Edition also featured trading cities for technology, and Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri featured production queues. These ideas are nothing new.

Re:Civ3 Ripped Off FreeCiv!

[Anonymous Coward]

what part of clone of civilization do you not understand?

Re:Civ3 Ripped Off FreeCiv!

[5KVGhost]

While nice, I'd say those innovations are fairly obvious improvements that would eventually be independently implemented by any such game. FreeCiv just had the advantage of being able to slipstream the new features in a bit faster.

Just an observation.

[rice_burners_suck]

Isn't it amazing that so many programmers gladly give away their hard work in free software, while so few artists, musicians, and writers do? Like the article says, it's a shame that there aren't any (or enough) contributers in areas such as sound. (The programming is there--it's the actual sounds that are missing.)

Re:Just an observation.

[Make]

You might be interested in the OpenMusic project - it's a project of the LinuxTag and already has a few artists who contributed free music.

Re:Just an observation.

[john@iastate.edu]

It's probably because, generally speaking, programmers can make a more than adequate income at their 'day job', while artists and musicians are, well, starving.

After all, 'free time' is basically how all the comforts of life came about in the first place! :)

Re:Just an observation.

[AnattaRadiate]

Where do we go to help?

I am a musician with entirely too many analog synthesizers, samplers, drum machines, etc., however my coding skills cover HTML and a little JavaScript. I would be very interested in creating sound effects and music for open source games and software, but I don't know where to go in order to offer my services. SourceForge seems to almost never mention musicians or audio techs.

In any case, I would be very interested in helping out, if someone could point me in the right direction for where to go or whom to talk to...

Re:Just an observation.

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't it amazing that so many programmers gladly give away their hard work in free software, while so few artists, musicians, and writers do?

Jon Katz comes to mind here...

Re:Just an observation.

[Sludge]

This most likely happens for a couple of reasons. The first being that joining a project instead of starting your own usually requires a strong purpose. Imagine a world of projects where an entire game idea was set in stone, and three artists and a sound guy collaborated and created everything for a game but the code.

So you have masses of incomplete game projects out there in this scenario (much like real life). It's one thing to come up with an idea to scratch an itch. It's another to join a project when your authority status is 'do what other people say' and work your ass off. Remember, this is a game project and a lot of the creativity is already thought out and completed before you come on board.

The second reason is that Free software doesn't tend to reach an operating system for artists. Get those games ported, and make it super easy to share resources with the developer, and see them in the game. I'm more than fairly convinced artists are out there -- we have four non programmers working at Threewave including one guy who pumps out images all day long. Has any Free software game/multimedia tool team campaigned for artists? As in, really made an effort?

Re:Just an observation.

[falzer]

Talk to the project leaders even if the project's page doesn't mention musicians or audio techs.

Re:Just an observation.

[Hobbex]

Mailing lists. Almost all free software projects revolve around their mailing lists, just join, lurk for a while (listen to the tone, learn the basics) and then start producing sounds.

A thing to consider is that free software projects do not usually have any real management, and posts like "I am really good, how do I join?" or other attempts to offer your services will often be ignored or given a very lukewarm response. In a free software project you need to be self managed, and the only thing that will buy you status in the project is work. So simply start off by finding a set of sounds that are not very good, make new ones, put them on the web, and post about it to the mailing list. If people see that you are actually producing results on your own, you will get accepted very fast.

Re:Just an observation.

[Spy Hunter]

Isn't it amazing that so many programmers gladly give away their hard work in free software, while so few artists, musicians, and writers do?

I think there is a different problem here. I don't think that all artists and musicians are against doing some work for free. Rather, I think that the open-source community doesn't contain that many artists, musicians, and writers. How many artists, musicians, and writers do you know who use Linux? That's what I thought. There are tons of guys out there who would be willing to do this stuff, I'd be willing to bet. However, either they aren't involved with open source, or they don't know how to contribute. There isn't much precedent for artists or musicians contributing to open source projects. It needs to be made easier for non-coders to get involved with open-source projects. Documentation, artwork, sounds, and many other things often lacking in OS software can be done by non-coders (preferably, in fact :-). But there just isn't much of a way for these people to contribute in many cases, and Linux still isn't mainstream enough for non-coders to be using it much.

Re:Just an observation.

[Anonymous Coward]

::groans::

so that is ur experience? I'm in a GPL project right now - no shortage of artists & musicians, but we can't get enough programmers!@!$!#@$!

This is not flamebait

[chazzf]

At the risk of losing any karma that I might have, let me make a few points here:

Freeciv is a very nice game, and very fun to play. However, all things considered, it is nothing more than a souped-up version of Civilization II-minus the graphics, sound, and impressive documentation. Building queues and simultaneous turns are great, but really don't represent evolution.

As far as the eye-candy goes, I consider it to be PART of the gameplay experience. I have played the Heroes of Might and Magic series for a long time not just because the gameplay is good but because the game is visually pleasing.

Finally, I have to ask why the Linux/GNU/FreeBSD/Open Source/Free Software community is so obsessed with trumping the "closed" community by producing open source replicas of hard work. Don't you think that Sid Meier, Brian Reynolds, or Jeff Briggs are geeks, hobbyists, innovaters. They created this game. You've reverse-engineered. The open community ought to dedicate itself to creating something original, something that it can call its own.

Sensible replies please, no flames.

Re:This is not flamebait

[geomcbay]

This complaint is valid not just for FreeCiv, but most Open Source software in general. For all the snickering the OSS crowd does when Microsoft talks about innovation, what exactly has Open Source done in the past 10 years or so that is really original?

I really do support the concepts of OSS in theory, but over the years I've come to see that the vast majority of Open Source projects are poorly implemented, perpetually three-steps-behind, clones of closed source projects.

Re:This is not flamebait

[hypnotik]

Personally I think innovation comes in small steps. Examples:

I can disallow all javascript popups in my web-browser(Konqueror) with a single checkbox, or I can have it ask me before doing so. This is innovative to me because it gives power to me as a user and it stops me from having to chase never-ending popup boxes when surfing. A small detail but one that makes a huge amount of difference in the enjoyment of my computer.

I can browse the MP3 files on my Creative Jukebox using my filemanager (once again, Konqueror) without having to deal with Creative's software interface. This is innovative to me because it's one less interface I have to learn.

Furthermore, I think your post really isn't all that innovative. You bring a tired old argument against open source without adding anthing more to it in the way of evidence or wit.

Score : -1 Non-innovative.

Re:This is not flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

First of all, "innovation" is some crap propaganda word from Microsoft. Stop using it. You say it, they win.

Second, fine grained control of JavaScript is one of those things that people were begging and pleading Netscape and Microsoft for years and years. Even today, this stuff is buried in Mozilla. However, for what ever reason, the big browser companies listened to the users and would NOT provide.

The fact that Konq (and closed source iCab) implemented the feature is not innovative at all. It's just that the developers are not operating under the same political constraints.

Re:This is not flamebait

[Rogerborg]

• The open community ought to dedicate itself to creating something original,

Look over at sourceforge and you'll find pots of games. Most of them die before they flower. I'd suggest it's because the developers would rather work on a clone of something that they already know that they'll like. Sad, but perhaps if that's what open source is good at, maybe that's what we "should" keep doing rather than creating a lot of still born half implemented ideas.

On the other hand... have a look at Netrek. That borrowed the names and some gfx/sfx from Star Trek, but the idea and implementation was truly original. In fact, commercial games can learn a lot from looking at the Netrek client/server model, and a good game of Netrek is still more fun than a barrel full of monkeys.

Re:This is not flamebait

[joshsisk]

Building queues and simultaneous turns are great, but really don't represent evolution.

AFAIK, both these features were in the "Gold" edition of Civ 2, anyway. At least, I KNOW that simultaneous turns were. And Queues were available in SMAC, weren't they?

Not that FreeCiv isn't a cool piece of software- it is, for sure.

Re:This is not flamebait

[joshsisk]

You could turn of Javascript with Netscape 3.x, as I recall... that's one of the things that kept me using it at the time.

Re:This is not flamebait

[erroneous]

IIRC Civilisation was a board game LONG LONG before it got converted to a computer game.

Therefore the use of this is an example of the innovation in commercial software development is a poor choice.

Not that I disagree with the posters sentiments, I'm just being pedantic...

Re:This is not flamebait

[e.a.kendrick]

"innovation" is not a crap propaganda word, and we *should* be using it more often. It is just abused by Microsoft more than anybody. Their strategy is embrace and extend (tm) - they elaborate someone else's idea and call it innovation. Open source is exactly the same, just our motives are nobler. 8)

Innovation is hard. You need an original idea, you need vision, and you need to communicate it. Getting even one stranger to commit time and effort is not easy when you have nothing to show. That is why the call to arms is usually "Let's build a better mousetrap!" rather than "Let's build a reapostum" (what's a reapostum? - dunno, let's help the mousetrap group). This is probably why most Open Source games are never finished - originality is not always rewarded.

You are most likely to see innovation in small applications - built by one person, who can then shout "help me" to the community. The problem is that we expect our software to be "born" in epic proportions. Look at all the people panning freeCiv because it lacks features in the commercial Civ games. How do you expect innovative software to emerge from open source if you dismiss it out of hand? And so you have a clone of something that already exists, it gains a following which then allows real innovation to be added - but by then you are all working on a mousetrap, and nobody is working on a reapostum.

I agree with the earlier posting: "Innovation is in small steps". But I would like to add that, for true innovation, the first step is a big one, and it's taken alone.

Re:This is not flamebait

[edremy]

IIRC Civilisation was a board game LONG LONG before it got converted to a computer game.

Civ the board game and Civ the computer game share the name Civilization. That's it: literally every other thing is different. (Well, they both have a tech tree I suppose, although they're handled very differently.) For example, one of the single biggest management tasks in AH-Civ is making sure you don't tax too much since otherwise you won't get any unit tokens. Not exactly the same as SM-Civ.

Both are awesome games: a 7 player game of real-world Civ is one of the true greats of board gaming, but they couldn't be less alike if they tried.

Re:This is not flamebait

[Eccles]

Finally, I have to ask why the Linux/GNU/FreeBSD/Open Source/Free Software community is so obsessed with trumping the "closed" community by producing open source replicas of hard work?

One issue is immortality. There are a number of fun games from the past that are very hard to obtain now, simply because it is no longer profitable for the companies to provide it or they're out of business. Take X-COM Apocalypse (the first game I thought of), for example. The developer's page is now a porn site, the publisher has no records for it, and I can't find a place to buy it (maybe ebay would work.) But essentially, it no longer exists. Open source games tend to live forever if they reach a certain level of quality.

The second is that it becomes the basis for new and better versions, including ones with better graphics. Perhaps one could create a 3-D model rather than using 2-D tiles, and have much better zooming ability. I think it would be an interesting experiment, and "innovative."

Re:This is not flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

what exactly has Open Source done in the past 10 years or so that is really original?

Put a Lisp interpreter in a Photoshop clone, of course.

Why isn't there...

[Lurkingrue]

A thought keeps occurring to me whenever I see anything about FreeCiv -- why on EARTH hasn't someone set it up for Mac OS X installation?

Admittedly, I'm a medical-geek, and my hobby/interests lie in history and not coding, so I could very easily be overlooking something that most /.'ers would see as an obvious impediment...

...but still -- I was under the distinct impression that OS X/Darwin was very BSD-ish, and that a package allowing easy Mac installation should be easy...Not trivial, but certainly more do-able than the Windows port.

So, I ask again, is there a good reason why I can't install this on my OS X machine?

Re:Why isn't there...

[christurkel]

Both Gnu-Darwin anf Fink have easy to install FreeCiv packages. You need X Windows, too.

Re:Why isn't there...

[Anonymous Coward]

So, I ask again, is there a good reason why I can't install this on my OS X machine?

For the same reason that we don't store diamonds in piles of cow-crap.

Re:Why isn't there...

[kzadot]

I think the source is available.. If you want it to run under the native gui layer instead of the x windows, you make have to hack yourself up some quick gui code, but thats part of the fun.

As often true on slashdot

[asv108]

A sentence is grammatically incorrect.

As is often true on O'Reillynet, the article's well-thought and interesting reading.

This is not flamebait reply

[westcourt_monk]

What is so original about the civ games? I don't believe there was any need to 'reverse engineer' civ. It actaully builds on Sid Meier's game by allowing for online gaming (why oh why doesn't civ3 have that option?) and has many other improvements over the gameplay of Sid's creations.

I don't beleive there are any original ideas (in regards to gaming) left, just original ways of presenting those ideas.

Re:This is not flamebait reply

[Anonymous Coward]

What is so original about Civ ?
Please, do you know of any game empire building game before original Civ ?

Re:This is not flamebait reply

[jonabbey]

How about Avalon Hill's Civilization board game, that Sid Meier drew on when making the original Civ?

Or the many empire type games that came out on various computer platforms before Civ? Civilization only came out in 1991, after all.. there were lots of games on the TRS-80 a decade earlier that had similar themes.. remember Santa Paravia & Fiumaccio? Or Populous? Or Seven Cities of Gold?

I remember a multi-user AppleTalk networked Conquest game that involved the exploration and conquest of a large world that was blacked out until you explored it, back in the mid-to-late 80's.. Conquest or some such thing.

Sid Meier's Civilization was a great, innovative game, but that doesn't mean there were no predecessors that were drawn from.

Re:This is not flamebait reply

[big.ears]

I don't know if it was networked, but I used to play a great civ-like game called "Lords of Conquest". on the apple ][ in the mid 80s. I downloaded an emulator and found a copy on an abandonware site, and it was nearly as much fun as I remember.

Re:This is not flamebait reply

[Loligo]

>Please, do you know of any game empire building
>game before original Civ ?

How about 1981's "Utopia" for the Intellivision?

It wasn't networked, and it was much simpler (but what do you expect on that level of machine?), but it had (fairly simple) resource management, various structures, multiplayer...

Fun stuff. YEARS before Civ on the PC.

-l

Re:This is not flamebait reply

[CrazyJoel]

I remember Empire. It was multiplayer by swapping floppies around.

Re:This is not flamebait reply

[Pescatore]

How about "Empire"? (1978)
I recall how, many years later, I sent out my fighterplanes to explore the nearby region
to that extremely annoying, repetitive sound effect.. Aaah, those were the days..

Hey quote whore, how's the whoring?

[jorbettis]

As is often true on O'Reillynet, the article's well-thought and interesting reading.

I don't know what's worse, that Hemos is quote whoring* for O'Reilly now, or that he's so bad at it. I mean, god damn, show some tact man! It's like when Jon Katz tried to claim that an Afgani emaied him from a war zone, everyone knew he was full of it from a mile away. If you're going to be so obvious about blasting away your journalistic integrity (does slashdot have any left?), you might as well get a job reviewing movies for the LA times or something.

*For those who don't know (and will probably moderate me down for using a 'naughty word') a "quote whore" is somone in some imagined place of authority on a subject who is paid by a cooporate entity to say good things about it. Like a film critic being paid off by a movie studio.

Re:Hey quote whore, how's the whoring?

[Anonymous Coward]

+1 funny someone!

FreeCiv on Darwin

[christurkel]

It was great day when FreeCiv was ported to Darwin/Mac OS X. I love FreeCiv; its eye candy lite, solid and playable. The music in Civ III is a Kenny G Greatest Hits parade. I'm sure I'll play Civ III when it comes to the Mac in January but I wont be in a rush to do so.

Re:FreeCiv on Darwin

[Farmer Jimbo]

The songs in CivIII are all in MP3 format. Replace them with the Beatles or Korn or whatever.

Because musicians aren't asked?

[Anonymous Coward]

To be honest I'd be more than happy to contribute sound/music to any opensource project out there. Sourceforge tends to focus purely on technical development. Where are projects putting their ads for musicians?

Freeciv is much worse in single player

[Jacek Poplawski]

It's hard to say, but Freeciv is much worse than any Civilization, when you play in single player mode. Simple reason - there is no diplomacy with AI. So it's war only game. When you play Civilization3 you survive for a long time without single fight. In Freeciv you must fight, you can't trade, you can't share science, you can't have peace, you can only destroy, steal and conquer.

Of course Freeciv is very nice when playing in the Net. Old versions had big problems with lags (one lagged player could destroy whole game!). When you are in multiplayer for a first time - you see that you just can't play - it's completly different game than with AI. And that is bad thing.

Re:Freeciv is much worse in single player

[isorox]

Finally

I've just read every +2 post there is (8:15AM GMT 26/11), only one mentioned diplomacy, and that was in passing.

It is impossible to play a game of freeciv without diplomacy. I dont care if its as complex as civ 3's, or as rudimentry as the originals, if I cant make peace with my neighbour its not civilization, as my empire is not civilized. Even the mongols and huns didnt attack some empires, partly for their own survival. In freeciv you cant, you have no choice, its basicly a bloodlust.

I've played games of civ where I've never built an attacking unit until I roll out 30+ armors in one go, use my rail network to get them to the enemy lines, and take over the empire in an extremely speedy way (10 turns later and I've conquered almost africa and europe from aisa.

Without diplomacy, freeciv is only a curiosity.

Re:Freeciv is much worse in single player

[Jacek Poplawski]

It is impossible to play a game of freeciv without diplomacy.
I hope you understand, that there is no diplomacy only when you are playing with AI. There is very good in multiplayer mode. When I first time saw Civ3 - my first though was "hey! they stolen diplomacy idea from Freeciv!".

Re:Freeciv is much worse in single player

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but the "diplomacy" for AI in Civ2, etc., really freakin' blows. You'd think that a computer player, being invaded by another computer player so many times would just go on permanent war with the other player the way it would with a human player... and then if you have embassies with other countries (either by Wonder or diplomats), you see them swapping tech like bitties sharing gossip, with no way really to intercede or prevent this short of wiping them out...all of them...

well...

Games and time

[Anonymous Coward]

"We soon gave up on the game, as it performed terribly. At that point, the idea was born to write our own version in C," says Peter Unold, now a 30-year-old graduate student in Aarhus, Denmark.

Man... I thought I spent a long time in grad school because I wasted too much time playing Civ... I guess even more time gets sucked up when you write it.

Um...FreeCiv ripped off Civ2...

[bonch]

Just pointing out the obvious. :)

This isn't a troll, but it's interesting that everybody hates Microsoft because, to compete with Netscape, they released a free browser and made it available on the 'net, thereby ruining Netscape's chances for profit. But nobody seems to mind when an open source project writes a free version of a retail project and makes it available. Hell, FreeCiv is probably lucky they never got sued by Microprose. Other game companies have shut down similar projects (even simple conversion mods, like Doom conversions for Quake or Duke3D for Unreal).

Having said that, it's cool that FreeCiv exists, and I still like to play it (though Civ3 is getting more of my time).

- bonch
stay animated

Re:Um...FreeCiv ripped off Civ2...

[HiThere]

But just judging from the comments, most FreeCiv players also play the various versions of Civilization. (I actually prefer the original one. It's nice that the Linux one was different, but it's too bad that the original one wasn't also ported.)

typical geeks

[batmn42]

One of the things I find most interesting about technology is that it's pushed forward by the strangest things-- here's an open source program, the prime example of open source theory, and it's pushed forward why?

Because it's a game. "It's geeky."

Funny.

I'm making a Civ style game

[kiwipeso]

recently, my computer died of memory failure.
My neighbour used his athlon pc here on my cable connection.
He downloaded tons of music videos, movies, episodes of band of brothers & games.

I did try civ3, but it had some problems displaying. Anyway, I was disappointed Civ3 was so simplified.

A Civ game should involve strategic thinking...
So,I've got a Civ style game in progress...

The tech tree is larger, more governments, hex based map, more units, private enterprise, more buildings, more wonders.

Specific governments have special units & wonders only they can build. (Anarchy has Fight Club wonder, can build anarchist)

There are lots more resources, unit orders, diplomatic options and cultural styles.

What I like most about Freeciv...

[mfarah]

... is that is open source.

What really annoyed me about Civ/Civ II was the fact that the nations's cities lists were SMALL (20 names or less) - considering that I like to build large empires (and that I have the nasty habit of renamig the cities I conquer), it was really annoying to have to think of a new name each time. Even nations (my favorite being Spain) with lots of cities available in any decent map were prone to this problem.

In Freeciv, nation rulesets are as open as the source code. So I made LARGE lists of cities for several of my favorite nations (the spanish ruleset's list has 200 entries, thanks to several days worth of work), and now I play happily.

Re:What I like most about Freeciv...

[GenetixSW]

Just to note, both games held their city lists in a completely editable file. Want to add "Anon Town"? Go right ahead! Anything was possible with them, and the games didn't mind the larger file sizes.

Re:What I like most about Freeciv...

[mfarah]

Just to note, both games held their city lists in a completely editable file. Want to add "Anon Town"? Go right ahead! Anything was possible with them, and the games didn't mind the larger file sizes.

What I forgot to say is that after I made those city lists, I submitted them to the freeciv-data mailing list, where they were accepted and incorporated into the Freeciv package: now everyone can benefit from my effort!

Civ 3 songs in MP3 format

[kiwipeso]

That's what I've been doing for my games for a couple of years now, you can just set them to play off a playlist.

Mail freeciv-dev

[deepone]

http://www.freeciv.org/mailinglists.html

Just do it... I can promise you that someone will reply... ;)

/Daniel

legal question

[mitch0]

First of all, kudos to all who participated in FreeCiv. Nice stuff :)

My question is: how does FreeCiv stand on legal grounds? I mean, it's
basically a reimplementation of an existing game (whose owner is Hasbro, at
the moment, if I follow company acquisitions correctly).

I ask this, because some years ago I started implementing
Advanced Civilization (originally a tabletop game by Avalon Hill, now bought
by Hasbro). The server part is 90% finished, and the GUI client could be
ready in 2-3 month if I put some effort in it. Unfortunately I don't have
much time to work on it nowadays, but I'm reluctant to make it available to the
public so that someone could finish it up, 'cos I'm afraid that simply making
it available "free" won't save my hide if Hasbro's lawyers wanted to come
after me.

I tried contacting Hasbro on this matter, but I only got back some sales
brochures.

Could someone with some experience or legal background enlighten me on this
matter?

cheers,
mitch

Re:legal question

[rp]

The answer is that nobody knows.
Hasbro certainly doesn't seem to care.
Freeciv doesn't actually compete with any of the commercial Civs, which have thousands of times as many players.

Heh. "open source artists".

[Anonymous Coward]

That sounds kind-of silly, perhaps "volunteer artists" for the project would be more appropriate.

"Errr, my source was photoshop, the "aged film" plugin, and a picture of my aunt mabel!"

lyx

[hawk]

>what exactly has Open Source done in
>the past 10 years or so that is really original?

LyX. It's only relationship to anything else is its early role as a latex front end.

It's different enough from everything else that it *caused* my switch to full time unix.

hawk

Development

[kimihia]

What can I say? Yes please!. I'm not a developer, but I did contribute screenshots .

The developers are fairly active on #freeciv on Openprojects so drop past. You can probably guess my nick. :-)

FreeCiv AI

[paskie]

Well, the problem is with AI. Not, it doesn't perform very bad, it is quite reasonable and even too difficult for many beginners, even when it lacks features like diplomacy. The problem is that it is coded terribly. The code is covered by the mist and fear, marked as 'hic sunt liones' and things like 'int a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i;' aren't very rare, as opposite to blank lines and spaces, not even mentioning any explaining comments. The AI was generally developed by one man, who disappeared magically around 1998, and we are still trying to clean it up in order to be able to make any changes into it. Diplomacy support is really high in the TODO after the major cleanup then, but still someone has to do the dirty work before... It looks we are speeding that up now and hopefully we will be able to push that forward soon. Let's hope... :)