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Human Powered Paper Airplane
gilgsn writes: "The Raven is a honeycomb paper, foam and graphite-fibre tape, human powered airplane designed to beat the current record held by MIT's Daedalus . The plane is also powered by a 16MHz Motorola 68332. The technical specifications of the onboard computer are pretty interesting. Unfortunately, as reported on Ananova, the Raven recently crashed a mere 100 feet after taking off, causing some damage to its fragile structure. Maybe they could upgrade to a Pentium and convinced Lance Armstrong to give it a try..."
This post in a space of indeterminate time.
Is your company running tools written by ma
-F
So, maybe the article is about a full-size airplane made of paper that is powered by a human being who also happens to be onboard ?
The last thing you want is an application to slow down when you're up in the air.... Maybe they should switch to Embedded Linux!
Pentiums consume ~50watts or more in most situations. A human can only output just about that much, consistently over an extended time. The rider would spend all their energy simply keeping the Pentium running...
Perhaps these people can succeed where Da Vinci failed. The amount of human power necessary to drive a plane is insanely great. See his journals for sketchings of his ideas... they are actually remarkably similar to this... only now, we're "cheating" by using a microchip and high-tech fibers. I'll believe it when I see it in this Raven.
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HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
Reading the title, I thought the entire thing was going to be made of paper. A paper airplane which could be controlled in flight by an onboard human would be a remarkable feat of engineering. I would even allow them to use paperclips.
I don't care too much for all this "cheating" (processor, etc.). What's the point even? It's not a paper airplane anymore.
"I feel great that it flew"
I would be pissed!
Maybe they could upgrade to a Pentium
:)
Uh, hello? This plane is made out of paper! Paper is flammable!
To recap: Paper Airplane + Pentium = Flaming Paper Airplane.
Given two equally equipped airplanes, it's kinda common sense that the one that isn't on fire will fly longer and farther.
SIGFEH
Oddly enough, Slashdot's very own Jeff Bates was involved in the engineering of the Megway. You can see a photo of his prototype here. Obviously the chassis was greatly improved for the final version... the prototype is rather ugly. The steering mechanism was also changed. (Those of you who watch South Park will understand!)
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I like to watch.
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As one of the control engineers who worked on this project, I can tell you there is no need to upgrade to a Pentium. The customized Tattletale system we were using had more than enough power.
The problems that I saw with this project had less to do with the control system and more to do with the airframe. The airframe was damaged a number of times and was extremely fragile. Damage probably occured during every flight test.
For those who are interested, I worked with the RAVEN team 2 years ago. I was resposible for getting an ultrasonic altitude sensor (primary) and a barometric altitude sensor (backup) to co-operate. The idea was that if the ultrasonic device failed the barometric would take over. The reason the barometric device wasn't the primary sensor was because of drift due to weather changes. Accuracy was important because the pilot was not a pilot, but rather an engine. The control system was in charge of maintaining altitude and heading.
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I like to watch.
It seems relevant that this link should be noted. Seems like the project's run out of funding?
The inept Taliban "military strategic masterminds" couldn't shoot a pigeon at 30 yards, but they managed to shoot down this paper airplane which was just taking off and moving about 25 kp/h.
Good one on the Taliban!
It's New Years, and you're sitting talking about stuff on the net.
GET A FUCKING LIFE!
Why do Italians put their garbage in clear plastic bags? So the Hispanics can go window-shopping!
People in paper planes shouldn't start fires
(pentium=overheat=fire harde-har-har)
Paine Field is about 3 miles away from my house, if that. It's right across the 'street' from the Boeing 747/767 assembly plant -- you know, the "world's largest building"? (Largest, I suppose, in that it covers more land than any other building -- it's not particularly tall.)
I saw a news bit recently (last night?) about the crash... looked like one of those 'impending doom' situations, where you know things are going badly, and there's nothing you can do to stop it. Unwieldy looking landing gear, but necessary for the size of the prop the fellow is turning. I'm amazed there was as little damage -- it looked worse.
Here are some links from local news:
- Human-powered plane crashes on first flight
- Test flight for the human-powered Raven
- (includes post-crash picture)
- 'Raven' debuts at Museum of Flight (includes pre-crash picture)
Doesn't look like the pilot has much for visibility. It's one of the most recumbant positions I've seen for human-powered flight. When they were pulling him out, it looked like he's almost strapped to the underside of the spar!Incidentally, the Boeing hangar (the 747 assembly building) is where some of the human-powered helicopter (!!!) tests have been conducted. It's the only indoor place large enough, and the tests have to be indoors because they need absolutely calm air.
"...America's great minds of today, teaching America's great minds of tomorrow. Poor bastards." -- A Beautiful Min
Maybe they could upgrade to a Pentium and convinced Lance Armstrong to give it a try...
Yeah! I'm sure that Lance Armstrong has the balls to do this!
Hey Taco! Looks like you're using the "infinite monkeys and typewriters" scheme to generate Ask Slashdots again...
I found in my aerospace testing that adding a paper clip to the front of the airframe adds a great deal of stability.
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A human could produce that much, and probably much more; if and only if they (most anyways) weren't fat sacks of lard. Maybe a CS person couldnt. Average Joe shure could. Whilst cycling, an average person could train to produce 300 watts over an hour easily. If you have some dedication, and are fit otherwise, you could probably do 500-700 watts. I don't know alot about Lance Armstrong, but I bet he (and no doubt many ohter cyclists) could do that 500-700 watts for a very (relatively, anyway) long time.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that it is best to keep the power requirement of the electronics down to minimal, for many reasons. Maybe they could have used a transmeta or something, but who cares. If a 16Mhz dragon ball was all they needed, then that's what they should use. Hell, I'd let them use my Handspring Visor if it made the job any easier (it can run for a freakin long time on a single charge) --though I suspect that it is well in their budget, given all the composite work.
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Paul MacCready had the Gossamer Condor and then the Gossamer Albatross -- two famous aircraft, to be sure.
A group at MIT built the Light Eagle and Daedalus.
In both cases, the pilot was in as complete control of the craft as I can imagine; providing both power and control input. Daedalus had a... problem... I believe it was a gust of wind that put it in the surf off Santorini beach. Perhaps, if the pilot had not been so exhausted from being the engine as well, that might not have happened. Good argument for flight controls that don't get tired.
Then there are people like me (an occasional sailplane pilot, more seldom than I'd like), who would rather not have something else be in control of a craft that is so vulnerable to the whims of the wind.
You mentioned the pilot "most of the time" is the electronics. How much control does the human engine actually have? (Just curious...) Granted, it'd be rather nice to have the 'highway in the sky' that NASA and Paul Moller keep crowing about...
It's rather ironic, actually, that this testing is happening on Boeing's home turf. The attitudes of Boeing vs. Airbus with regard to computer control used to be 180 apart: Boeing's computer systems would default to what the human pilot believed was necessary, while Airbus had a system that limited what the pilot was able to do. In effect, Airbus' computer design had final authority. I believe this changed after the A3xx airshow crash (when the pilot tried to apply power and ended up in the trees anyway), but I haven't heard anything about this for several years.
I hope more enlightened attitudes have prevailed.
"...America's great minds of today, teaching America's great minds of tomorrow. Poor bastards." -- A Beautiful Min
Truly worthy of a +5 funny!
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I hope they are better at designing the plane than they are at designing the website...what a piece of shit.
...not too much to ask for in a website, right? Wrong.
All I wanted was to see a picture (or two), of the complete airplane
The 'tour' is a tour of nothing. The 'photobase' has no index whatsoever (I'm supposed to read the designers mind to come up with a 'search' word?), and the actual photos, (when you finally find them) are thumbnails. When you click on the thumbnail for a larger image, you are instead taken back to the original photobase search page.
I'll reiterate, what a load of shit.
I guess they shot their intellectual 'wad' designing the logo.
Speaking as a CS person and a bike racer: your estimates are pretty good but a bit optimistic. I actually have a bike computer that measures power output, so my numbers are pretty good. I can produce 300W for an hour during the racing season, and I'm pretty average... but I wouldn't say it was easy (I did over 5000 training miles this year). Lance can keep up about 450W for an hour (which I can keep up for about one minute), and he's about the limit. To do 700W would require something other than blood to be pumping in your arteries.
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Come on, moderators, don't hit this down! Celebrate with some cheer! Happy New Year everyone! God Bless America, and the world!
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In related news, FBI agents have arrested several muslims in various areas of the U.S. for conspiring to crash paper airplanes into strategic targets in the U.S. and abroad.
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The dog got loose on my computer, and now there's XP all over the screen. -Paul www.ploeb.net
Refresh my memory, which cpu caught fire when the heatsink was removed? Oh wait it was the athlon.
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Freedos requires less resources.
then some wax, but just don't fly to close to the sun....
Seriously, Paper? seems a little over the top. You're totally screwed if it gets wet, your insurance will be outragous, and there's alway the wife or girlfriend might clean out the hanger and through away all of that "old cardboard" setting around. And lets not forget, that turbulence that springs up at the worst possible moment..
I'm totally naive about human-powered airplanes, so flame me if necessary, but: has anyone tried to make human-powered aircraft that uses multiple "human engines"? i.e. would a "twin" with two people pedalling, or even a "slave galley" plane with 10 or 20 people pedalling have more or less trouble staying aloft?
Or, to put it another way, are there any economies of scale to be exploited by adding people to the engine?
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
I also have a watch that does this. The answer is yes the fluctuations are large. That is why it is necessary to calibrate the watch at a known altitude before every significant use.
Maybe they could upgrade to a Pentium and convinced Lance Armstrong to give it a try...
I know this is a joke, but just for your information, their pilot Mike Eddy is an excellent choice. He is shorter than average, and built of muscle, and a world-class cyclist. I don't think Lance Armstrong is shorter than average, so I don't think he would work as well as Mike Eddy!
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...next time anyone tells a "joke" as bad as the "upgrade to a pentium and convince lance armstrong to try it" joke, can we take them 'round back and shoot them?
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The joke is that AMD chips overheat.
After surfing the site a little more, I ran across this news item, which was the most recent one on the site and seems to me to be of some significance to this story:
Wednesday, December 12, 2001
RAVEN Project closing - Paul
Raven team members,
It is with great regret that I must announce that the RAVEN Project is
shutting down. The numbers have caught up to the project. There just
aren't anymore resources available to for us to continue. At the end of the
year our lease expires and there is just enough money to cover that debt.
My financial position does not allow me the option of continuing any
further.
This is getting ridiculous. It's bad enough saying a server is "powered by Apache", or "powered by Linux." Now we have a paper airplane "powered by a cpu".
Goodness gracious, is everyone afraid to say "controlled by"?
Infuriate left and right
Upgrade to a pentium? Please. I don't care what the clock speeds are, it could be a million to one in favor of Pentium, going from a Motorola chip to a Pentium is no upgrade.
~ now you know
In the case of jet-powered or rocket-powered airplanes (think Nebelwurfer) it's the one not on fire which falls out of the sky.
Elastic bands are the only safe way. (-:
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Shouldn't 'human powered' mean the guy pedaling has to do the calculations by hand too?