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TiVo Introduces Series2
KMFMS writes "Yesterday, TiVo introduced their Series2 line of TiVo DVRs. The TiVo web page for the Series2 states that it will have "2 USB expansion ports to connect to peripheral devices like... network adaptors..." " Presumably
this will mean Tivo will have Broadband support to compete with the new ReplayTV 4000's.
It also claims to support music and stuff too.
How much more expansion and networkability are the MPAA and TV networks going to "allow" in these sorts of things? I keep wondering when the "other shoe is going to drop" and Tivo is either sued out of existance or DRM'd out of usefulness...
The Free desktop that Just Works
I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to know if there's going to be an upgrade program/discount for owners of the now old school original Tivo boxes?
:)
I guess now that the Series1 prices are going to probably go into a freefall soon I can pick up an extra and finally for the 100gig drive upgrade.
When I install a USB device usually I have to add some software driver of some sort. How will this work? It would be cool to be able to support things like webcams, the new creative labs sound system, PCTiVo cable and more. I use USB for most all of my stuff on my PC and would love to see this capability on a set top box.
"If you are on fire you can just stop, drop, and roll. If you fall into Lava you are just dead." - my 5yr old daughter
So if you plug in a USB modem/broadband adaptor, you'd then be able to stream Real content onto a TiVO. It all makes sense now...
-Corvidae
It will have built in support for several types of USB devices. The kernel in the only "series 2" device out there (the AT&T Tivo, availble right now thru Tivo's web page) appears to have compiled-in support for a few types of USB ethernet adapters, but it may not be enabled as of yet. In any case, so software drivers will be required, you just have to use the list of "compatible hardware" that they give. That list will likely be long, as it's just a matter of having the unit detect and load the necessary kernel modules (it's running Linux 2.4.something).
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Why not firewire? It's a LOT faster, and besides, intel wants the market to move in this direction.
And, for god sakes, why not have ethernet, or wireless ethernet build in? My television is nowhere near a phone line, which is part of the reason for not getting a tivo. Although the prices for series one will probably drop now.
As a Tivo owner (and modifier), I can say that it's exciting that there will be an improved Tivo hitting the stores soon. I'm a little disappointed in a few things, though:
The announcement doesn't indicate what, if any, connectivity options they intend to use by default for the Tivo2. USB ports are great and everything, but if it still requires a modem line to get guide data and uses the USB network adapter for its "extended services"... Yuck.
And about the extended services: Why do I suspect that it'll be an extra charge for those?
I'm also a bit put out that Tivo isn't doing anything to announce improvements in the following areas:
- Show Send (a la ReplayTV)
- Archival of recorded shows to media or PC
- Show scheduling via Web page
- Management of recorded items via Web
- "Self-upgrade" capability via removable media
These, given the platform it's based on, would be simple to achieve. In fact, some of the same things are out there now that others outside of Tivo have created! Why not rely on the experiences of the power users, and be a truly hip company by adopting and supporting some of their work? Isn't that how the Open Source model is supposed to work -- the Adoption of What Works?
Or maybe I'm just mad that I spent all that time modifying my Tivo to add the above features and wish that I had the obviously superior Tivo2 hardware at the time.
:)
They're not selling the data. They're selling the format and convenience of the data.
You can buy a sunday paper and get the TV listings. Somehow TV Guide stays in business selling the same "data" to people, but usually in a better format.
Not that i wouldn't love to be able to get all the stuff for free, but the key to tivo staying in business and making cool boxes is for them to make money somehow. If it would just go over my DSL IP connection I'd be happier than the whole dialing-in thing.
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
Agreed, they're not just selling the data. Add to that the fact that the subscriptions are really the only thing that make TiVo a decent business model (the only things that come to mind from which TiVo might profit is (1) licensing the TiVo technology to box makers like Sony and Philips, (2) the subscription fees, and (3) content deals with big networks), I'm happy to fork over the cash in hopes that it might help a company succeed which deserves to succeed.
Finally, think of it this way. Subscription fees are a way of subsidizing the cost of the set-top box. If you don't like that idea, you can just pay the extra $250 (it was $200 when I bought my TiVo) for lifetime service, and then you're essentially paying TiVo what it should cost to buy the box. Otherwise you can do that in monthly or annual increments down the line, but since I planned (and still do plan) on keeping my TiVo for many years to come when I bought it in June of 2000, I bought the lifetime, which, as of something like this March, will have paid for itself.
-mikey
I've bought 3 TiVo's in the last year. One for me, one for my parents, and one for my brother. All three were the cheap 20-hour units, upgraded with a 3rd party hard-drive.
... it says they have a new graphics engine)
I sure as hell am not going through this again until they add HDTV support and dual tuners.
I would also love to see:
- 802.11b options, not only for downloading the updates via your local LAN, but also for streaming MPEG to other PC's and wireless devices on your LAN.
- Optical digital audio outputs (to go with the HDTV support).
- Newer video codecs with better quality (maybe they have added this in the latest release
- Firewire output would be nice, also.
Of course, my dream unit would be one that is integrated with TimeWarner's digital cable box, so that it can take advantage of the digital channels, much like DirecTiVo does. The integration with TW's channel guide alone would be awesome...
"And like that
The new features are all well and good, but I think the key to TiVo's long term success will continue to lie in its simplicity. Right now, it's something that your grandmother can use. It's simple, intuitive, and useful. While adding ports may up the "geek factor" to compete with ReplayTV, it really adds very little in the long run.
If you really want a whiz-bang system with home networking and other features built in, the way to get that NOW is to roll your own PC based system. There's plenty of software available.
If TiVo makes the mistake of over complicating their product and bogging it down with vaporware (see previous RealNetworks article), then they may have problems. Ask yourself what level of technology your non-technical friends and relatives are comfortable dealing with. Most can't even hook up their VCR correctly.
I love my TiVo. It's easy to use and simply works great. I don't ever see myself being without some sort of PVR.
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
While it's true that for streaming over the internet directly from a Tivo it wouldn't matter, but it's pretty crazy to go around transferring full bitrate MPEG encoded movies - what most people want to be able to do is download video to their computer and re-encode or shrink it down to a reasonable archiveable size.
This sketches me out - I have a strange feeling that something is going on behind the scenes here - remember the flap over the ReplayTV that could "share movies with your friends". Tivo is a saavy company when it comes to placating the media world. I have a feeling there is a reason they are putting USB on it rather than ethernet directly. But it doesn't quite click to me what it could be - other than that this allows them to assess the industry response to it, and choose to release or not release official ethernet-USB support at a later date without endangering the product itself, and surely some hackers will make ethernet work anyway to appeal to the gear head crowd.
So I think this is a carefully considered business decision. I also know a lot of folks in the Tivo community and have no doubt that within weeks of these things hitting the stores all sorts of cool unintended uses for these USB ports will be thought up. I'll be first in line to buy one, as soon as the DirecTV-integrated version is out.
After reading this article i think ill stick to alternative devices, im not into paying someone to sell my viewing habits to advertisers if they are strapped for cash,
im suprised so many pgp military encryption loving
Yeah I had the same attitude until I bought one. When you realize the power the guide data gives Tivo. you can easily appreciate paying $10 a month. Sure the data is free, but programming the Tivo is not. If you had to manually program the guide data every two weeks, I think that would suck. Otherwise, the Tivo is just a digital VCR. You can easily use your computer to just record tv shows digitally. The fact that the system keeps itself updated, tracks shows that you like, automatically record a show if it moves, etc. etc etc. Its more than just the fact you are getting free data. You are getting to use the power of Tivo with that data. It takes a lot of effort to make the data useful, and that is what you are paying for.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
"2 USB expansion ports to connect to peripheral devices like digital cameras, network adaptors, MP3 and CD players, etc."
Etc. could be a USB CD burner, perhaps? That popping sound was the MPAA's aneurism.
I'd love to know the percentage of people who own DirecTiVo units who are actually using the dual tuners. I suspect that as a marketing feature, it was a necessary thing to add to compete against UltimateTV, but I think the reality is that only a small percentage of people are utilizing it.
The added cost to a standalone TiVo of adding a second tuner is probably not trivial. For those systems, the TiVo is doing on-the-fly mpeg compression. Adding another tuner also means adding at least another compression co-processor. For the DirecTiVo versions, the signal is already compressed coming from DirecTV, so those are parts they didn't have to add. For a dual-tuner the thing needs to be able to handle three video streams at once... two recording/compression and one playback. That's a lot of number-crunching. The DirecTiVo only ever has to deal with set of number-crunching (for playback).
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
Anything to let these networks know what I'm interested in seeing, and what they can do with all the crap they stuff down my pipeline.
Looks like they are starting up some sort of developer program as well. You can sign up for it at the bottom of this page. Anybody know anything more about this program?
I am not a deveoper my self I am just curious what it is about.
Q.
Is that baised on any actions taken by TiVo, or anything they have said?
Last I visited the TiVo "underground" forum they were busy finding the AT&T TiVo (the first Series2 TiVo) just as hackable as the old ones. Sure the old tools for the most part didn't "just work", but that is because the CPU in the new one (some MIPS varient, I think at 200Mhz or so vs. the 50Mhz PPC in the old one) was running byte swapped (I assume to make talking to x86 byte order peripherials simpler).
They had adding an extra drive working, and were pretty sure they could get the rest of the stuff working as well. The serial port still give access to a root shell. Nothing blows away your changes (except during an upgrade).
They also had a list of which USB ethernet drivers were compiled in, but oddly nobody had acquired one to see if it "just worked".
If TiVo was going to cut off the hackers why didn't they do it a month ago when they brought out the new hardware?
Er, which ones are gone?
I've watched one thing and recorded something else with my Stand-Alone Tivo plenty of times its all a matter of having this wired up correctly! And I've got a cheap TV with only one input on it, the standard RF cable. If I felt like it I could actually have my Tivo record one show, be recording another show on my VCR and be watching a third on the TV.
Wall Jack Tivo VCR GameCube TV.
If your Tivo is in standby it is still picking the signal up off of the wire and recording the signal, but it also passes the signal on the wire through intact. Its like having your VCR record something and hitting TV/VCR so you can watch something else at the same time.
As many people here have pointed out it would take a lot more then just another tuner to be able to record two shows at once. You'd have to have enough hardware in the system to encode two mpeg2 streams. The DirecTivo's get around this by recording the DirecTv mpeg2 streams without having to encode them.
"You can't fight in here! This is the war room" --Dr. Stra
That would require duplications almost every item the stand alone TiVo has. You need another set of IR blasters to go to another cable box. Another coax in, another antenna in, another RCA in set. You need another tuner (for the antenna in), another NTSC decoder. Another MPEG encoder.
In other words you more or less double the SA TiVo's cost (er, except for the hard disk, and the rather inexpensive CPU).
I would rather see a way to network multiple TiVos and have them seemlessly act as one big TiVo. Need a second tuner? Buy a second TiVo. Need more disk space? Get yet another. All three networks have their one best show at the same time, plus HBO's new series airs then too? Get four TiVos.
That would be a lot more general, and not cost significantly more....
(Why does the DTiVo and UTV have two tuners then? Well they only have one extra sat input, and no extra MPEG encoder, in fact they have zero mpeg encoders. So the extra cost was pretty small.)
this link on CNN has a little more info on what will be "new" for Series2.
look for online games from the Jellyvision, maker of You Don't Know Jack and Smush.
also look for some sort of video on demand by Radiance Technologies Inc.
this is in addition to the Real Networks partnering and the USB support.
not quite the networking capability that i was hoping for but something nonetheless that might be interesting.
/* Half alive and half dead too, work is for suckers and the sucker is you. - "Half-life" by Local H*/
About the same as the older standalone TiVo (which I think is around 6Mbit/sec for "best" quality, and much lower like 1.5Mbit for "standard"). It is variable bit rate MPEG2 (with an option for CBR). "Best" and "High" both look fine for anything that doesn't have a lot of strobes or super quick cuts one after another. "Standard" works fine for cartoons most of the time. I don't think I ever use medimum.
Ask the MPAA...or head off to the TiVo underground and slap on an Ethernet, just don't let the MPAA know :-)
Enabling Backdoor Mode
The Backdoor mode can be entered using the remote by doing a "Browse By Name" for "0v1t" (TiVo spelled backwards with zero and one instead of "O" and "I") followed by the "Thumbs-Up" key. The only known way of exiting Backdoor mode is to reboot the TiVo (see "C-E-C Fast-Forward" below).
The backdoor code for 2.0 systems is done the same way, except the code is "2 0 TCD". There is one space between the "2" and the "0", and another space between the 0 and the TCD".
The backdoor code for 2.5 systems is done the same way, except the code is "B D 2 5". There is one space between each character.
The backdoor code for V1.5.2 UK (latest) is: 10J0M (thats zeros and ones).
Almost Complete Codes List
I really doubt it. It would be nice, but when was the last time you heard of a DVD player or television coming with an upgrade discount.
As long as they keep providing service for the S1 TiVos, I don't see any reason to expect a discount on the new ones.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
...and they're still going to charge ten clams a month for guide data that's freely available on the web? I'm willing to bet, the answer is yes.
Yeah yeah yeah. Call us when you've implemented a system that not only downloads that data into a regularized format for PVRs to read, but is smart enough to follow schedule changes on its own.
In the meantime, please look up the definition of "value-add" in your nearest Business 101 textbook.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
TiVo does the best it can do with the directory information it is given, and the problems aren't really that bad. There's not a whole lot they can do when a football game runs over, or some breaking news story overrides normal programming. The data is collected weeks before. And what if a station airs a show 5 minutes early each time it plays? They should put that information in their listings. Many already do.
There is no way TiVo or any other company could keep track of the idiosyncrasies of every local channel in America. Want to make the problem a little easier to deal with? Contact the network or station that doesn't keep their times synchronized or publishes incorrect guide data and let them know how you feel about it.
As PVR's become more pervasive, you will find that most broadcasters will pay more attention to detail if they want to keep their viewers happy.
.
load "linux",8,1
Yup have both, and hardware hacking is my hobby. I could say you dont have a life bacause you dont have a digital logic analyzer in your basement next to a 1ghz o-scope and a surface mount rework station. but I dont because I dont judge people's hobbies. AS for the data, it takes me 3.7 seconds to get my local listings for any date up to about 15 days out to be accurate. it's called yahoo or tvguide.com and a little knowl language called perl. hell the modules for that are already written and part of a perl program called misterhouse. all I need to do is monitor for about a month what is being sent and recieved by the TiVo (simple to capture and analyze modem communications.. you can find schematics from many hacker sites.. silicontoad used to have a bunch of this stuff) and i dont doubt that it's cool for you and you will forever pay your 9.95 a month. me? I'm that 3.517% that doesnt want to be relying on their information and their forced software updates. and unless they use pgp encryption for all communications to keep people like me from figuring it out (then I hack the software directly) it will take only a month or so to figure it out. (some people rather figure out a rock face, or build a boat in a bottle, me I like to crack corperate IP)
as for a poor student or starting out... nope I'm an old dude that has a decent paying job, lots of expierience, and a hobby that is pretty darned cool. how about you?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.