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TiVo Introduces Series2
KMFMS writes "Yesterday, TiVo introduced their Series2 line of TiVo DVRs. The TiVo web page for the Series2 states that it will have "2 USB expansion ports to connect to peripheral devices like... network adaptors..." " Presumably
this will mean Tivo will have Broadband support to compete with the new ReplayTV 4000's.
It also claims to support music and stuff too.
How much more expansion and networkability are the MPAA and TV networks going to "allow" in these sorts of things? I keep wondering when the "other shoe is going to drop" and Tivo is either sued out of existance or DRM'd out of usefulness...
The Free desktop that Just Works
I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to know if there's going to be an upgrade program/discount for owners of the now old school original Tivo boxes?
:)
I guess now that the Series1 prices are going to probably go into a freefall soon I can pick up an extra and finally for the 100gig drive upgrade.
It's unclear on that little blurb whether it will have HDTV outputs... anyone have any more information on this? It would be great to have the outputs so that I could use the empty component in on my TV.
WWJD? JWRTFM!!!
When I install a USB device usually I have to add some software driver of some sort. How will this work? It would be cool to be able to support things like webcams, the new creative labs sound system, PCTiVo cable and more. I use USB for most all of my stuff on my PC and would love to see this capability on a set top box.
"If you are on fire you can just stop, drop, and roll. If you fall into Lava you are just dead." - my 5yr old daughter
So if you plug in a USB modem/broadband adaptor, you'd then be able to stream Real content onto a TiVO. It all makes sense now...
-Corvidae
...and they're still going to charge ten clams a month for guide data that's freely available on the web? I'm willing to bet, the answer is yes.
This is the ONLY reason I'm not a Tivo user. Sure, the hardware is cool and it would be great to set something to record Battlebots, the Crocodile Hunter and a few other *special* shows... But for $119.88 a year for freely available data? I think not.
Oh well, maybe if the new features work without a subscription, I'll take a look.... But wait, didn't the release of extractstream (can't find link at the moment, I'll leave this up to you link-finders out there) make Tivo respond by saying the next version of the Tivo hardware would use millitary-grade crypto? So much for hackability.
---
Siggy, siggy, siggy, can't you see? Sometimes your puns just irritate me.
It will have built in support for several types of USB devices. The kernel in the only "series 2" device out there (the AT&T Tivo, availble right now thru Tivo's web page) appears to have compiled-in support for a few types of USB ethernet adapters, but it may not be enabled as of yet. In any case, so software drivers will be required, you just have to use the list of "compatible hardware" that they give. That list will likely be long, as it's just a matter of having the unit detect and load the necessary kernel modules (it's running Linux 2.4.something).
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Why not firewire? It's a LOT faster, and besides, intel wants the market to move in this direction.
And, for god sakes, why not have ethernet, or wireless ethernet build in? My television is nowhere near a phone line, which is part of the reason for not getting a tivo. Although the prices for series one will probably drop now.
As a Tivo owner (and modifier), I can say that it's exciting that there will be an improved Tivo hitting the stores soon. I'm a little disappointed in a few things, though:
The announcement doesn't indicate what, if any, connectivity options they intend to use by default for the Tivo2. USB ports are great and everything, but if it still requires a modem line to get guide data and uses the USB network adapter for its "extended services"... Yuck.
And about the extended services: Why do I suspect that it'll be an extra charge for those?
I'm also a bit put out that Tivo isn't doing anything to announce improvements in the following areas:
- Show Send (a la ReplayTV)
- Archival of recorded shows to media or PC
- Show scheduling via Web page
- Management of recorded items via Web
- "Self-upgrade" capability via removable media
These, given the platform it's based on, would be simple to achieve. In fact, some of the same things are out there now that others outside of Tivo have created! Why not rely on the experiences of the power users, and be a truly hip company by adopting and supporting some of their work? Isn't that how the Open Source model is supposed to work -- the Adoption of What Works?
Or maybe I'm just mad that I spent all that time modifying my Tivo to add the above features and wish that I had the obviously superior Tivo2 hardware at the time.
:)
I have had a TiVo for about a year now, and I love it! The only complaint I have about it is the inability to record two shows at once. Never have I said I would love to stream MP3s to my TiVo. Over and over I have cursed West Wing for overlaping with Enterprise, and Friends for coming on at the same time as Survivor. I want both! I know they already have this ability in the DirecTiVo, but not in the Stand Alone TiVos. This seems like the next logical evolution of their product, but alas TiVo is yet another company that has placed strategic partnerships above features.
If you're not in the know, Real and TiVo are in bed with one another which struck me as odd seeing as how Real isn't exactly known for being a champion of the Linux cause and that's TiVo's blood 'n guts.
At any rate, I'm glad to see that non-standard, non-open digital "rights" management fomats are no longer solely the domain of Windows *cough* WMA/V *cough*.
Easy does it!
This comment has been submitted already, 276865 hours , 59 minutes ago. No need to try again.
My main gripe about Tivo right now is that I can't record one program and watch another at the same time. UltimateTV and even DirecTivo have this capability, or alternately the ability to record two shows at the same time.
The specs for the new Tivo make no mention of this.
If it could do what the Turtle Beach Audiotron is doing and be my PVR too, that would be way cool. I view this with guarded optimism, they don't actually mention attaching broadband via USB. They just mention video on demand via broadband. Those could be seriously different things the the final shakedown. Still, its cool to see.
JVC, Panasonic, and Sony all make these, just look around.
I've bought 3 TiVo's in the last year. One for me, one for my parents, and one for my brother. All three were the cheap 20-hour units, upgraded with a 3rd party hard-drive.
... it says they have a new graphics engine)
I sure as hell am not going through this again until they add HDTV support and dual tuners.
I would also love to see:
- 802.11b options, not only for downloading the updates via your local LAN, but also for streaming MPEG to other PC's and wireless devices on your LAN.
- Optical digital audio outputs (to go with the HDTV support).
- Newer video codecs with better quality (maybe they have added this in the latest release
- Firewire output would be nice, also.
Of course, my dream unit would be one that is integrated with TimeWarner's digital cable box, so that it can take advantage of the digital channels, much like DirecTiVo does. The integration with TW's channel guide alone would be awesome...
"And like that
The new features are all well and good, but I think the key to TiVo's long term success will continue to lie in its simplicity. Right now, it's something that your grandmother can use. It's simple, intuitive, and useful. While adding ports may up the "geek factor" to compete with ReplayTV, it really adds very little in the long run.
If you really want a whiz-bang system with home networking and other features built in, the way to get that NOW is to roll your own PC based system. There's plenty of software available.
If TiVo makes the mistake of over complicating their product and bogging it down with vaporware (see previous RealNetworks article), then they may have problems. Ask yourself what level of technology your non-technical friends and relatives are comfortable dealing with. Most can't even hook up their VCR correctly.
I love my TiVo. It's easy to use and simply works great. I don't ever see myself being without some sort of PVR.
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
While it's true that for streaming over the internet directly from a Tivo it wouldn't matter, but it's pretty crazy to go around transferring full bitrate MPEG encoded movies - what most people want to be able to do is download video to their computer and re-encode or shrink it down to a reasonable archiveable size.
This sketches me out - I have a strange feeling that something is going on behind the scenes here - remember the flap over the ReplayTV that could "share movies with your friends". Tivo is a saavy company when it comes to placating the media world. I have a feeling there is a reason they are putting USB on it rather than ethernet directly. But it doesn't quite click to me what it could be - other than that this allows them to assess the industry response to it, and choose to release or not release official ethernet-USB support at a later date without endangering the product itself, and surely some hackers will make ethernet work anyway to appeal to the gear head crowd.
So I think this is a carefully considered business decision. I also know a lot of folks in the Tivo community and have no doubt that within weeks of these things hitting the stores all sorts of cool unintended uses for these USB ports will be thought up. I'll be first in line to buy one, as soon as the DirecTV-integrated version is out.
After reading this article i think ill stick to alternative devices, im not into paying someone to sell my viewing habits to advertisers if they are strapped for cash,
im suprised so many pgp military encryption loving
"2 USB expansion ports to connect to peripheral devices like digital cameras, network adaptors, MP3 and CD players, etc."
Etc. could be a USB CD burner, perhaps? That popping sound was the MPAA's aneurism.
Umm, so you think they should follow the philosophy of all of the 'internet appliance' companies that sold the PC at under cost expecting users to not hack it? Where are they today? Or do you think that Tivo should give away their monthly service? It does cost them something (admittedly not much) to keep that service going. Eventually they would go out of business.
Or do you just think that any business model that would require both that you own a piece of hardware, and that you pay for a subscription to get useful information for that hardware, should be outlawed?
Didn't you use the internet to post that comment? Didn't you pay for a PC, then pay a monthly fee for your internet access? Are you an idiot?
Unless you have digital cable or HDTV, the TV Programs will be far from 'perfect'. Why does it matter anyway? You are already making 'copies' on the TIVO hard drive. A person could do this with any cature software and a capture card hooked up to a PC. It would be a hell of a lot easier than doing a USB CD-R(w) mod.
This relationship was born more out of fellow feeling (the architecture of the Tivo is very hackerish) than of any practical value. But Tivo's business model is based on a close relationship with the Entertainment Industry. Not just to keep from getting sued, but to generate revenue by selling services to them. (Notice the "record this" option for some network promos. And I don't suppose logo insertion is free either.) That means they really can't afford to tolerate hacking, which will inevitably introduce features the Industry won't tolerate. Hence the disappearnce of backdoors. Expect Tivo to jump on the DMCA bandwagon soon.
Moxi presented their media center at the CES 2002 in Las Vegas on monday. Oh wait, it has already made slashdot headlines !
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel
The system has been functioning perfectly well with the non-existent (in comparison!) bandwidth of Plain Old Telephone Modems; there's no reason for the product they're selling to need Firewire.
Doubtless the MPAA and related folks would be aghast at the thought of having fast interfacing to disk; that's just "piracy" asking to happen.
If they can get USB cheaply on the motherboard, and that allows hooking up a number of cheap USB devices, that's quite enough enhancement for now.
As for Ethernet, I agree that it would be pretty slick to throw that in. It would seem to me that dropping an Ethernet chip onto the motherboard and a port out the back would be a pretty good way to go, and would offer the merit that folks with ADSL or "cable modems" could then get their TV guide updates faster without needing the ISP service. (That saves TiVO some Actual Dollars, no doubt!)
However, there are some technical hurdles to get thru in supporting the Ethernet-to-Some-ISP-connection strategy; it means:
I'd be comfortable with all this, but then, I've got a hub, firewall, and have my own 10BaseT cable-building equipment. I'm hardly the "appliance user" they're mostly selling to.
Colour me unsurprised that they didn't want to just leap into that...
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
As I understand it, the subscription can be transferred only once, and only for warranty repair.
If I upgrade to a new TiVo, am I screwed out of my lifetime subscription?
Mainly it's because I like using a remote on my couch to list through the TV shows I want to watch. I don't feel like continually standing up to go to the computer to watch a different show.
And on that note, my computer is nowhere near my TV, so that'd be a lot of cabling to run through the house.
And, for me at least, the composite out on my video card leaves a little black border and isn't as sharp as normal TV, however I have an old card (voodoo3 3500 TV) though, and it's been replaced already, so I don't know how the composite out on my new card is.
You don't even need the IR blaster, really.
The IR emitter is on the front panel of the TiVo. I have my AT&T Broadband Digital Cable box sitting on top of the TiVo, so what it does is blast the IR out, bounces off the wall, and comes back and hits the digital cable box - and it acts just like you used the remote control. (It has a bunch of remote control codes built into the TiVo already.)
It takes about 3 seconds to change a channel (a second between each number just to be safe, I have it in slow mode) and it only drops a number if I'm standing in front of the TiVo at a weird angle where the IR bounces off of me and goes a different direction than the Digital Cable box.
What kind of bitrates does it support, what does it really save, what kind of quality, and why should I ever want to see anytyhing compressed with anything from real.*?\? And why can't I connect it to my computer and won't all nice satelite recievers have this from the beginning anyways?
The idea is really great, but we all knew that since before;)
I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE to have a Tivo, WITH SERVICE. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! Bell just introduced PVR capability in their satellite receivers, so get ahold of Rogers and put out a digital cable terminal with a tivo built in! PLEASE!
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
I noticed that a few people were talking about how USB is so slow. What if they were including a USB 2.0 controller? Theoretical speeds for 2.0 are above that of IEE1394.
On the other hand, for the features that I'd love to see you may not need anything faster then 12Mbs. Personaly I would love to be able to use my cable modem connection to be able to update my show listings and maybe (I wish) be able to do some remote control from the Internet.
Looks like they are starting up some sort of developer program as well. You can sign up for it at the bottom of this page. Anybody know anything more about this program?
I am not a deveoper my self I am just curious what it is about.
Q.
But then you pointed out that among other things, you're another one of those Maxim readers. :)
Seriously though, I'm all for value-added services - but only when the value part is really valuable. I guess it depends largely on how valuable your TV watching is to you?
Myself, I find TV serves only as a temporary break in my schedule. Sometimes, I just want to be passively entertained for a little while, as I sit on my couch after work. Most often, I'd rather actively participate in something else (like maybe even Slashdot).
Even if TiVo does an outstanding job of locating TV content that's of interest to me - I'm not sure I care. I'd still prefer to actively seek out content that interests me using a resource like the web, as opposed to being spoon-fed the content on TV programs. TV caters to the lowest-common denominator most of the time.
(EG. Say I'm interested in cellphones, and want to buy a new one soon. My TiVo finds me several news stories on new cellphones, and a big program about the production of them. Fine, but it's still mostly marketing hype and watered-down facts that I have to now sit through 2+ hours of. In 10 minutes, I can go to the manufacturer web sites instead, and get complete technical specs on whatever new models they have out. Give me another hour, and I can read actual reviews from users of most of the choices to see which phones are best, and why.)
Au contraire!
I'd say Real Networks is one of the minority of companies that gives a nod to Linux on a regular basis. They had a streaming server that ran under Linux, and their player works in Linux.
As someone else said, compare this to any of their competitors (MS and Apple) and see what kind of Linux support you get for their media formats.
...I care about disk-size and tuners. Wheny they make a 7 tuner model with hot-swappable 80 gig drives I will be ever so happy.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
this link on CNN has a little more info on what will be "new" for Series2.
look for online games from the Jellyvision, maker of You Don't Know Jack and Smush.
also look for some sort of video on demand by Radiance Technologies Inc.
this is in addition to the Real Networks partnering and the USB support.
not quite the networking capability that i was hoping for but something nonetheless that might be interesting.
/* Half alive and half dead too, work is for suckers and the sucker is you. - "Half-life" by Local H*/
I guess I'm an idiot for buying a vcr that finds out what I want to watch, and not paying 10.00 a month.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I'm as cynical as the next guy, but this is simply wrong. I have a brand new Sony SVR-2000 with the 2.5 code and it's fully hackable. Backdoors are on and I've enabled numerous hacks. For further info see Almost Complete Codes List. Now, what happens in the future is anybody's guess. However, based on the fact that the 30 sec. jump hack was removed in 2.0, then added back in 2.5, I'd say Tivo is still more sensitive to customer demand than anything else.
Understandably we have been spoiled with the 24x internal CD burners, but when you are backing up a 30 minute show on highest-quality settings (~450 megs) it would take a 4x external burner probabably 30 minutes top to burn that 30 minute show.
What's your hurry? I was in heaven when I got my 2x2x6 CDRW a couple years ago. Thirty minutes to record a 30 minute show is plenty acceptable.
Kids these days...
I've been waiting to get a MP3 player for quite a while now because I want something that can hold a large collection, but not require me to navigate an 8 character display. It sounds like this new Tivo will one day have this feature.
I know it doesn't seem like much, but that kind of integration and ease of use is what made Tivo so popular in the first place. I could really see these things beating out game consoles as the first major entertainment "center piece".
Enabling Backdoor Mode
The Backdoor mode can be entered using the remote by doing a "Browse By Name" for "0v1t" (TiVo spelled backwards with zero and one instead of "O" and "I") followed by the "Thumbs-Up" key. The only known way of exiting Backdoor mode is to reboot the TiVo (see "C-E-C Fast-Forward" below).
The backdoor code for 2.0 systems is done the same way, except the code is "2 0 TCD". There is one space between the "2" and the "0", and another space between the 0 and the TCD".
The backdoor code for 2.5 systems is done the same way, except the code is "B D 2 5". There is one space between each character.
The backdoor code for V1.5.2 UK (latest) is: 10J0M (thats zeros and ones).
Almost Complete Codes List
I really doubt it. It would be nice, but when was the last time you heard of a DVD player or television coming with an upgrade discount.
As long as they keep providing service for the S1 TiVos, I don't see any reason to expect a discount on the new ones.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
...and they're still going to charge ten clams a month for guide data that's freely available on the web? I'm willing to bet, the answer is yes.
Yeah yeah yeah. Call us when you've implemented a system that not only downloads that data into a regularized format for PVRs to read, but is smart enough to follow schedule changes on its own.
In the meantime, please look up the definition of "value-add" in your nearest Business 101 textbook.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
If you have both a stand alone and a DirecTiVo, do you pay two TiVo fees, or just one? I have a SA right now, but am considering getting one of those cheap Hughes DirecTiVos. I searched deja for an hour once, but couldn't find clear answers on this. I realize I have to pay DirecTV the second-tuner tax, but what about TiVo?
-
I agree totally -- that's why i refuse to buy a car. They make you buy gas every few weeks just to keep it running, and change the oil and tires and stuff just to keep it doing what it was supposed to do in the first place!
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
- If Ford goes out of business, you can still drive your car.
- There is competition for gas that brings the price down to a reasonable level.
- Ford can't decide that you don't really need a stereo in your car anymore (a feature that you bought the car for) and secretly take it out while filling it up.
If I buy a tivo with service, and then later on they decide they don't like to provide the service anymore, I have a $600 paperweight that's no better than my VCR.Don't get me wrong, they should sell service and make money off it. But you should be able to get the data from a variety of different places. Legally.
I can explanate how to administrate your network. You must configurate and segmentate it, so it can computate.
Not to be rude, but you won't even come close. Sure, you may end up with a pretty cool DVR, but not much more.
;)
I once thought like you do. You have to own a TiVo for awhile to understand the little intricacies of what it does to fully appreciate it. I could type all day trying to convince you of this, but you wouldn't completely understand it until you tried it.
Best of look to you. I'm sure what you come up with will be a great achievement and provide you with lots of entertainment. Just not as much as a TiVo.
load "linux",8,1
First of all, you're not just paying for guide data. You also get free updates to the software that, over the last 3 that I've gotten, have added some major functionality to the unit. You also get excellent customer support if it's ever needed.
The guide data that they provide is not cheap. They have to pay quite a bit for it. Remember, it's not just when shows are airing on the major networks. It has to track every cable company in America. What packages they offer, and what channels are included in each package so they know what is available to you. And when lineup changes occur at each of these cable companies. And all the thousands of local channels they have to know everything about.
It's really not as easy as it may appear.
.
load "linux",8,1
Don't get me wrong, they should sell service and make money off it. But you should be able to get the data from a variety of different places. Legally
I don't disagree at all -- if someone else sets up a network that lets you download the data Tivo shouldn't be able to stop you (although I'm sure they might pull a technical hack to do it if it were really cutting into their finances).
But that's a different thing than saying "I paid $200 and want it to do everything forever". The original complaint was that Tivo users had to pay for the service, not that they were being prevented from using a competing service.
However incidental the costs may be, it is an ongoing cost that Tivo must bear to run a network and do the data management to make all the "magic" work.
If you don't want that ongoing magic (or don't want to pay for it), you've still got a box that is a heck of a lot more feature-rich than a standard VCR. Pausing live TV alone is a killer feature, being able to have it read your mind is just a value-add...
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
And yes! If I pay $200 for some A/V equipment I want to be able to do everything forever (well, until the hardware dies anyway)! What in the world is wrong with that? Do you expect anything else from your VCR or your DVD for example? Why would the Tivo be any different? All the features are self contained - except for the channel guide downloads, and THAT is not worth $10/month or much of anything really.
But the only thing you lose by not subscribing is the download stuff. You lose the auto-scheduling, the suggestions, etc. The box still works fine with all the features that don't require downloading data. All the "self-contained" features do work regardless of you ever giving them another red cent beyond buying it. (the 2.0 boxes are said to be different but no one has seen yet how they will function without a subscription)
And like I said, if someone sets up a competing service to offer the listings (as I understand the network-hacked boxes to use) then you can avoid paying for it. If you just demand that tivo give you the listings forever for free, then the price of the boxes will go up to include the lifetime subscription.
Tivo is a software company, they exist to sell software and sell their listings. If you don't want to buy them, that's fine, but complaining because they won't give them away for free is just rather odd...
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
I won't buy them! That is ALL I said, along with the reason why...
No, you made inaccurate statements that you would own a "$600 paperweight" if you turned off the subscription -- you wouldn't.
You'd still have a functional Tivo with several times more functionality than a normal VCR. The subscription services are icing on the cake -- but the cake is yours to eat with or without it.
I'm not just responding to you personally, I'm also making things clear to the thousands of people who read this thread without posting, so that they don't get an incorrect view of how Tivo works. readers outnumber posters by several orders of magnitude...
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
But I don't expect to pay a fee every month so that the speedometer keeps working past the first few weeks I bought the car (the equivalent of having to pay a fee after the short trial period that comes with it).
they're not selling you a speedometer. they are selling you constantly updated information. if you want to keep the original data on the machine, they won't stop you, but without the new information it can't do a lot of the scheduling stuff.
The data is not free, and it doesn't come out of thin air. Tivo has to pay people for the data. Then they work on that data to make it function in their boxes. They do this every month that there are boxes out there for the data, until the company disappears. You only have to manufacture a speedometer once.
if you went in to the dealer and demanded a tune-up every month they'd charge you, too. Tivo's data stream is a tune-up for the recording schedule.
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
I never watched TV before I got TiVo - when I had time, there was never anything interesting to me on, and I sure as hell am not going to make time for TV watching.
Once I got TiVo, I could watch what I want when I want - it gave me more control of that aspect of my liesure time. In addition to skipping commercials, it has made TV enjoyable for me.
it's like buying a computer and expecting an ISP to give you Internet access for free
Not really. It's more like buying a computer and being told that you can only sign for this one overpriced ISP, and if you don't sign up, your computer can only be used as a calculator.
Or to use your GSM analogy, it's like buying an expensive GSM phone and be told you can only sign up to this one company at some ridiculous rate. Otherwise, all you can do is play "snake" on it.
Historically, when a device is tied to a specific service, one or the other is given away or GREATLY discounted (pennies on the dollar).
Tivo should be making its money from sellings its software to its hardware partners. Just like Microsoft sells Windows to the OEMs, just like Palm sells the PalmOS to Sony. If that's not enough to keep them afloat, they've negociated bad deals.
Well, previous poster wasn't talking about bug fixes but major upgrades to functionality ... i.e., something that was already cool got cooler, blah blak
... contrary to what you suggest, $10/month doesn't just get you listings. It gets you listings PLUS the functionality that comes with having regular listings PLUS the development of new functionality from a company that has been extremely responsive to customer demands/requests.
If you had read the rest of that paragraph, you would have seen that I have addressed that. I'll buy an upgrade if and when I want one. Just like I'll choose to upgrade my Windows box if and when I want to.
Also, context again
No. It gets you the listings. Everything else is software within the TiVo (which I bought- hardware and software) that parses and uses the listings. I refuse to rent software. Again, if they do come up with some amazing new feature that I must have, I would consider paying once for the software upgrade.
I have never said that TiVo should or shouldn't do anything. All I have said, is that I don't like it and I won't buy it. The bottom line, again, is that if I pay big bucks for a piece of hardware I expect to use anyway I see fit.
About the rest of you post - well, fine. It costs them more than I thought for this service. If you have number to back to up, I'd love to see them, however it's largely irrelevant. I don't want to have to use their service. I'd like to be able to use another service (let's call it freelistingsdb.org) or do it myself. This is a chicken and the egg problem here. Their cash burn rate is to maitain the servers, but of course you have no choice but to use their servers.
I could get from the content provider's websites for free for example (right about every TV channel has a website). I doubt very much THEY would care considering it is in their interest that I watch their channels.
Regardless, you're avoiding the central issue. They are not giving anyone a choice. If they did, who knows! Maybe some free provider (a la cddb) would pop up. Maybe the network provider would let the customer pull the info in some sort of XML format. Or maybe me and a bunch of friends would take turn to update our own database running on a home server. With enough people you'd only have to do it every once in a long while. There just is no saying what could happen...
Also the alledged high cost for them to harvest the data is probably in large part due that the network have little interest to help another company make money off their backs. If it was a free service (call it freelistings.org) - who knows, maybe the networks would make it a lot easier.
Bottom line. I won't buy an (expensive) piece of hardware that ties me in a specific service. But they way, what do you plan on doing if TiVo decides that their service is worth $25/month starting next month? Or $45 a year after that?
If their business model is to sell the service, they should give the hardware (even if I have to return it when I cancel - just like a cable box).