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Jon Johansen Indicted by Norwegian Authorities

phlawed writes: "This story (norwegian) states that the authorities responsible for investigating economic crime in Norway today (after 2 years of "investigation") charged JLJ for violating a law regarding computer "break-ins", commonly known as the "hacker paragraph". This is for distributing the DeCSS sourcecode. The analysis so far (by media) is that the authorities not necessarily thinks JLJ is guilty, but due to unclear wording in the relevant law they seem to think that the courts should have a look at it... It is worth noting that JLJ has *not* been charged for violating any law regarding IP, piracy or such." I've only found one story in English, which is quite vague. Hopefully the above poster is correct in summarizing the situation.

331 comments

  1. The English story is correctly translated. by bodin · · Score: 4, Informative

    The norwegian version here is identical to the English one.

    The motivation is that Jan has broken the crypto. "When you buy the disc, you buy the rights to play the movie, not to copy it".

    They just don't get it. You have to be able to decode the data to play it.

    It has NOTHING to do with copying.

    1. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by wo1verin3 · · Score: 1

      I've finally figured out what Gov't reminds me off.

      Imagine working at a HUGE international company, and your dept. provides technical support. Now, out of these 200 people providing technical support, 198 of them are none technical and 2 of them read /.

      The past is due to repeat itself, they fear what they don't understand, and they don't want to understand.

      Salem.

    2. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by kisak · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Here is the same story translated to english.

      --

      --- guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people ---

    3. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Hater's+Leaving,+The · · Score: 5, Informative

      Add to that the fact that it wasn't even Jon (not Jan) that broke the crypto, he merely hosted the source code files. The actual reverse engineer who wrote the original code was allegendly German, and as far as I know to this day remains anonymous (though pseudonyms, and the name of the cracker group they belonged to are known).

      I was thinking that maybe I could pack up my "Got DeCSS" T-shirts for posterity just last week, but hell no. The world is still full of shite and nonsense, and _we_ are still a tiny minority.

      THL.

      --
      Keeping /. cynic density high since the fscking Kwhores/trolls arrived.
    4. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Flower · · Score: 1
      Now, out of these 200 people providing technical support, 198 of them are none technical and 2 of them read /.

      Someone hasn't read most of the comments in the -1 sewer I see.

      --
      I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
    5. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by /ASCII · · Score: 2, Funny
      Guns don't kill people. Kids who play videogames kill people!

      --
      Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
    6. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by yggdrazil · · Score: 1

      Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people

      People without guns don't kill that many people by far, which leads to a much lower crime and murder rate in society as a whole.

    7. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by TheTomcat · · Score: 5, Informative

      [note: this is not going to be a popular opinion, but, please, think before slapping]

      It has NOTHING to do with copying.
      Originally, you are correct. DeCSS was built to decode discs without using one of the proprietary (and unavailable) players.

      BUT, unfortunately, it has opened the door to DVD copyright infringement ("piracy"), like it or not.

      You don't have to go far to find DeCSS being used in "shady" ways:
      http://www.dvd-copy.com/
      http://www.dvdcopycentral.com/
      http://www.howtocopydvds.com/
      http://www.dvdcopypro.com/
      .. I could go on.

      While it shouldn't be inherently illegal to decode and copy discs for legitimate purposes, that's not how DeCSS is being used, the majority of the time. It sucks, but it's true.

      To many people, it has EVERYTHING to do with copying (or decoding and re-encoding to other media, distributing, etc).

    8. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by ethereal · · Score: 3, Informative

      Guns don't kill people, the Government does :)

      --

      Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and

    9. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is the name of the town where you live Utopia by any chance?

      You must be very lonely, because the rest of humanity lives in another town called Reality.

    10. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guns don't kill people. Kids who play videogames kill people!

      Gawd, I hope you're joking. I'm pretty sure you are.

      But just in case you're not:

      <rant>It's not guns, it's not video games, knives, movies, the news nor anything else. It's piss-ass poor parenting skills. There are people out there today doing nothing more than raising the next batch of psychopaths. It's abhorrable that anyone on this goddamned earth would have the slightest notion that anything but the fucking irresponsible slobs raising children today is responsible for the mess they created.</rant>

      Okay... Now I feel better. Back to the topic at hand.

    11. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by dachshund · · Score: 1
      BUT, unfortunately, it has opened the door to DVD copyright infringement ("piracy"), like it or not.

      Although those products may incorporate DeCSS, I see no reason why a DVD copy program couldn't just do a bit-copy from one disk to another without breaking the crypto. As has been said a million times, DeCSS is not an anti-copying system. It's an anti-playing tool.

      Certain applications, like re-encoding a DVD onto a CD-R would definitely require DeCSS or something of the sort. But with the attendant quality loss, you might as while be making VHS copies (which as far as I know is legal and accepted-- not at all considered piracy.)

    12. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by /ASCII · · Score: 1

      Moderators: This is a good link, please mod it up.

      --
      Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
    13. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by dachshund · · Score: 1
      As has been said a million times, DeCSS is not an anti-copying system. It's an anti-playing tool.

      Sorry, I meant to say CSS, not DeCSS.

    14. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Paul+the+Bold · · Score: 3, Insightful
      While it shouldn't be inherently illegal to decode and copy discs for legitimate purposes, that's not how DeCSS is being used, the majority of the time.

      Do you have some evidence of this? Some data? I could claim that Americans use guns to protect their homes, but most often guns are used to kill people. Is this because we always hear about it when somebody is murdered, but rarely hear about it when somebody repels a burgler by threatening with a gun?

      I can tell you that 100% of the people I know who use LINUX and own a DVD drive do not copy DVDs.

      The point is that you should not make these unproven claims. It strengthens the case of those who want to steal our fair use rights.

    15. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I will remember that as I get bashed by a tire iron or stabbed to death. I could just see criminals saying to themselves - Oh no! I can't mug that person. I don't have a gun and this large slab of concrete in my hand won't help.

    16. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by TheTomcat · · Score: 1

      Because a lot of DVD copy programs allow downsampling to Div X ;) or equivalent, and allow copying to CD.. cheap -- that's why they need DeCSS.

    17. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by /ASCII · · Score: 1
      Yeah, I was ironic. It was a quote from PA.

      You should check out this article. It's about a 12-year-old who kills his brother while pretending to play a videogame. The article focuses on the danger of videogames and barely mentions that it might be a bad thing for a parent to leave a loaded handgun laying around where kids can find it.

      --
      Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
    18. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by TheTomcat · · Score: 2

      You're right. I don't have hard data..
      Think about it though..

      That's like saying "sure, napster wasn't used for illegitimate purposes.. most people _I_ know used it for getting indie music".

      I'm unfounded, but I'm prolly still right. (-:

    19. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Danse · · Score: 3, Informative

      I see no reason why a DVD copy program couldn't just do a bit-copy from one disk to another without breaking the crypto.


      Because consumer DVD writers will not burn them correctly. They will not burn the key sector of the DVD, which makes it unplayable in a DVD player. You have to decode the DVD and convert it to Divx to get something useable.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    20. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Shimmer · · Score: 1

      It has NOTHING to do with copying.

      I think that's going a bit far. However passionately we may feel about it, we must admit that the intended purpose of the encryption is deter copying.

      -- Brian

      --
      The most rabid believers in American Exceptionalism are the exact same people whose policies are destroying it.
    21. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      People without guns don't kill that many people by far...
      Cars. Next?
    22. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      the first thing to remember and to yell louder than everything else you say needs to be, DeCSS is not needed nor aids in copying DVD movies. DVD movies can easily be copied without DeCSS and were being copied without it easily before DeCSS existed. DeCSS does nothing to aid DVD copying, it was happening already.

      That needs to be the soundbite that every lay-person needs to hear fors and at at least 15 decibels louder than the rest of the explination.

      and I would add at the end how most every tool has a dark use.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    23. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Oztun · · Score: 2

      Where I live they just end up getting shot.

    24. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by RickHunter · · Score: 2

      "While it shouldn't be inherently illegal to slice and dice vegitables for legitimate purposes, that's not how kitchen knives are being used, the majority of the time. It sucks, but it's true. To many people, it has EVERYTHING to do with killing. Thus, kitchen knives should be banned and those who make them locked away."

      Now, does that argument make any sense for banning kitchen knives? No. The creator of something should not be held legally accountable for what people twist their creation to do. If a terrorist uses a VISA credit card to slit someone's throat, should VISA be punished for the murder? No. Are manufacturers of CD-ROM drives punished for the copyright infringement committed by people who read CDs with their drives?

      JLJ did not create DeCSS for the purposes of copyright infringement. While some people may have twisted it to that purpose, JLJ should not be punished for their actions.

      Never mind that the entire argument being used for this case is void. When you buy a DVD, you buy the DVD - the disk, the packaging, and a copy of the work. In Norway, at least, where they do not yet have an equivalen to the DMCA, you are still allowed to do anything you want with your property. (Except distribute copies)

    25. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by JanHolbo · · Score: 1
      To many people, it has EVERYTHING to do with copying (or decoding and re-encoding to other media, distributing, etc).

      Maybe so. But the same could be said about crowbars and Breaking&Entering.

      The problem IMHO with using the laws in this way is that it is turning the burden of proof upside-down.

      If it is made precedence, then anybody doing anything similar in the future would have to proove his innocense of having illegal plans. Which is near-impossible to do.

      If this use of the law was turned to hardware stores (low-tech ones, selling screw-drivers, hammers, etc), then they could get slapped for (solicitating (hope it is spelled correctly) breaking'n'entering, murder and a host of other crimes.

      The interesting part is that they are not trying the case on Intellectual Property issues.

      I do not know Norwegian law and I am not a lawyer. But in my (lay) opinion, the defense should be able to refute the conviction unless the DA can prove intent of or soliciting of copyright infringement. Or if the DA can prove, that the defendant used DeCSS for copyright infringement.

    26. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you're probably wrong. It's probably used simply to play DVDs under Linux 99% of the time.

    27. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I could claim that Americans use guns to protect their homes, but most often guns are used to kill people. Is this because we always hear about it when somebody is murdered, but rarely hear about it when somebody repels a burgler by threatening with a gun?

      You give this example as if you are giving an absurd extreme, as if the rest is open and shut... dude, your example better for the other side.

      you make a good point about evidence, but another good point is that the evidence wouldn't settle the question anyway. Let's say that 90% of the time guns are used to scare off burglars and 10% of the time used for murder... so what, it's apples and oranges. Balancing burglary against murder is, believe it or not, a personal taste issue. Some people might wish a ratio of 100 to 1, and some (like certain gun toting perl authors) 1 to 2 (with all the other factors of deterence, disproportion, etc. thrown into the mix).

      DeCSS, primarily by then allowing divx compression, creates many new opportunities for copying and distribution. Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of it, and not because it would let me sample things that I would race out and buy.

      You're right to point out the distinction, and you're right to point out the uses and purposes. But you're dishonest to pretend the other uses don't exist too.

    28. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by drsquare · · Score: 0

      That explains why England, with its Draconian laws against gun ownership is a peaceful, crime-free haven, and why Switzerland, with every household owning a gun, is a violent, crime-ridden hellhole.

    29. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I see no reason why a DVD copy program couldn't just do a bit-copy from one disk to another without breaking the crypto.

      with audio discs, there is some amount of disc to disc copying, maybe even a lot. but MP3 encoding allows for another large "industry" to spring up copying another way.

      with current DVD technology, home copying is not feasible. but DeCSS and divx allow something similar to MP3 exchange.

      do you have an inkling yet what the controversy is about?

    30. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by arkanes · · Score: 2

      No, it's really not - the intended purpose of the encryption is to restrict PLAYING. The content industry has said more than once that it really wants to move to a subscription model, where it has total or near-total control over when and where you can play the content they provide. This is a profit thing.

    31. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It's piss-ass poor parenting skills.

      this is a bit of an oversimplification.

      free speech is considered important. why? because speech is important, exchange of ideas is important.

      bad repressive people like Nazis, Communists, and religious dictatorships censor ideas and make heavy use of propaganda for the same reasons. speech and ideas are important.

      grownup Catholics are Catholic because they learned it as kids. grownups in Brazil play soccer because they did when they were kids. women are treated differently in different cultures dependent on how the kids were raised.

      if your task were to design a program of socialization explicitly intendeded to raise a generation of killers, might you include violent video games because they would be helpful toward that goal?

      How do you know that "regular" violent video games don't contribute to pushing some members of society toward or over an anti-social line? You don't know it. You just assume it.

      I'm not saying they do, but I am saying that everything we know about ideas and speech and raising children indicates that what people are taught and learn does make a difference.

      In instances where it does turn out there's a problem, Permissive Pollyannas like you are much more dangerous than Conservative Cassandras.

    32. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It all depends on the type of crime (I'm guessing that there aren't all that many people being shot to death in the UK...)

    33. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2

      That explains why England, with its Draconian laws against gun ownership is a peaceful, crime-free haven, and why Switzerland, with every household owning a gun, is a violent, crime-ridden hellhole.

      How many times do you have to be told? "Britain" is not "England". That's like saying "America" is "Texas".

      Incidentally, it's pretty easy to get guns in the UK. You just need to get a licence, which is easier and cheaper to get than a driver's licence. The big difference is that in the UK, you can't get guns in corner newspaper shops.

    34. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by edbarrett · · Score: 1
      Now, out of these 200 people providing technical support, 198 of them are none technical and 2 of them read /.
      Someone hasn't read most of the comments in the -1 sewer I see.

      No, he's saying there are 200 typewriters in the support dept.

    35. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by monkeydo · · Score: 2
      Please explain how a DVD is copied without DeCSS. Are you claiming that I can make a bitwise copy of a DVD with consumer equipment, and that I will be able to play the copy in my DVD player?

      I didn't think this was possible using current _consumer_ equipment due to special sectors of the disk, media capacity, etc.

      The fact that commercial production houses can copy DVDs with their DVD mastering equipment is not relevant to any discussion of DeCSS since DeCSS makes _widespread_consumer_ copying possible.

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    36. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You'd guess wrong. While the actual number of gun crimes is lower in the UK gun crime is actually becoming a big problem. In London in particular gun crimes have risen steadily since handguns were banned. During the same time period gun crimes in the US have dramatically decreased.

    37. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by mpe · · Score: 2

      The motivation is that Jan has broken the crypto. "When you buy the disc, you buy the rights to play the movie, not to copy it".

      Remember that the software industry, in combination with the likes of the MPAA and RIAA, have pushed the view of using "equating" to "copying" WRT to anything "digital".

      They just don't get it. You have to be able to decode the data to play it.

      "They" most definitly do "get it", in terms of wanting to control the paying of the media. Even to the point of getting new laws created to give this kind of control a legal basis...

    38. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by mpe · · Score: 2

      JLJ did not create DeCSS for the purposes of copyright infringement. While some people may have twisted it to that purpose, JLJ should not be punished for their actions.

      IIRC the likes of the DMCA deliberatly ignores the issue of intent. (With many laws intent is the primary, possibly only, issue.)
      Also the determination of "primary usage" appears to be up to the plaintiff.

    39. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please explain how a DVD is copied without DeCSS

      You use a modified video driver.

      Are you claiming that I can make a bitwise copy of a DVD with consumer equipment, and that I will be able to play the copy in my DVD player?

      I don't know whether he thinks that or not but I'm sure he didn't claim it. He claimed that DVDs were being copied prior to DeCSS. They were. People used modified video drivers. I assume you had realised that any DVD player software does in fact decode the disk?

      The fact that commercial production houses can copy DVDs with their DVD mastering equipment is not relevant to any discussion of DeCSS since DeCSS makes _widespread_consumer_ copying possible.

      So what you're saying is that you brought up the subject of commerical production equipment purely to say that it was irrelevant to the discussion? Next time if it's not relevant, please don't bring it up. Thanks.

    40. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by linuxpng · · Score: 2

      why can't you pass all the vob's through a decrypter then pass the unencrypted vobs to a blank dvd disc? Any dvd player will play unencrypted dvd's such as Army of Darkness. I don't think the alarm is for nothing.

    41. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by RickHunter · · Score: 2

      Also the determination of "primary usage" appears to be up to the plaintiff.

      Well, that's stupid. I hereby declare that the primary usege of all computing equipment is to perpetrate crimes against me, and therefore, it must all now be turned over to my control. More legislation from those who bought us the laws/regulations that say that the litigator in a domain name dispute gets to choose where the case is tried.

      In the case of the DMCA, this is especially dangerous. Why? Because it says that making, distributing, or describing a device whose primary usage is to circumvent copy control technologies is illegal. So the plaintiff gets to say what is and is not primarily used as a circumvention device. And can thus make any technology illegal.

      Also note that, as I said above, Norway has no DMCA-like law. Since JLJ is a Norwegian citizen, applying an American law to him (which is what the MPAA tried to do when they ordered him arrested two years ago) is Just Plain Stupid.

    42. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Danse · · Score: 2

      The previous poster was claiming that DeCSS was unnecessary for creating DVD copies. I was just stating that it was necessary since consumer DVD writers can't do a bit-for-bit copy. What you're suggesting also requires DeCSS, so it's just another variation of using DeCSS to get the DVD into an easily readable format.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    43. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by lunatik17 · · Score: 1

      I do that with DVDs I own all the time. What's the problem?

      --

      Here's my DeCSS mirror, where's yours?

    44. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by lunatik17 · · Score: 1

      The single biggest reason I miss Napster is because it was a great resource to me for getting foreign music that isn't available in the states. Nowadays it's much harder to find that kind of thing.

      --

      Here's my DeCSS mirror, where's yours?

    45. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by lunatik17 · · Score: 1

      DVD copying programs have been in existence since 1997, well before DeCSS was written. It was done mostly by hacking a Windows driver or otherwise capturing the decrypted video.

      --

      Here's my DeCSS mirror, where's yours?

    46. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by ichimunki · · Score: 1

      Who is this "we"? Certainly not the Slashdot community. The average Slashbot *loves* DVDs and can't wait to rush out and buy LotR and Star Wars on DVD as soon as they hit the shelves, never mind that they are financing the loss of freedom they're going to come back here and whine about tomorrow.

      --
      I do not have a signature
    47. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by dachshund · · Score: 1
      do you have an inkling yet what the controversy is about?

      I was always told that it had to do with the right to play DVDs on Linux boxes. I'm shocked and dismayed to learn that it really is all about copying :)

      On a more serious note, I don't have a DVD-R, and wasn't aware that they had such limitations until just now. Thanks for letting me know.

    48. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by yggdrazil · · Score: 1

      That explains why England, with its Draconian laws against gun ownership is a peaceful, crime-free haven

      Standard NRA propaganda...

      Uhem...

      And in Switzerland, a large bulk of the weapons are military ones, for use in case of a war only, not guns purchased individually by gun-crazed loonies...

      This little snippet is also interesting: "Reuters reports the head of the UN mission in Kosovo, Bernard Kouchner, said on Monday that UN police and KFOR had improved security in Kosovo to the point where the murder rate was lower than that in Washington and the South African capital Pretoria. Kouchner showed reporters charts which plotted Kosovo's rapidly declining murder rate and showed that Moscow and Kosovo now had roughly the same murder count, the dispatch adds, quoting him saying: "The rate of criminality is down--look at where we are and where we were just two months ago."

      (We should really be sending peace-keeping forces to the US to calm their near civil-war like tendencies down.)

    49. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      first off what you get out of DeCSS will not play in any DVD player ever created,invented,or dreamed of. therefore DeCSS is useless in creating a consumer copy of a DVD. Yes the only way to create a real DVD bootleg is to use commercial duplication equipment but that isnt an issue, or even relevent to DeCSS or any copying case on the planet. as the other's here have stated, a modified video driver is the simplest way to get around the silly encryption/content control system that DeCSS is. take that rip to Divix or SVCD and give to your friends, put on Vid-napster, use to overthrow a small governemt or destroy society.if you believe what the MPAA tells everyone.

      The only way you can use DeCSS to make anything that play's in your DVD player is to downgrade it so badly that it becomes a VCD. you cannot make it into the DVD that you copied it from (that might change when we actually get a DVD writer that can write a decent disk... right now you have to buy a $1500.00 professional burner to do it... I have access to the one at work and it is cool.)

      So basically, if anyone says that DeCSS helps to copy the DVD, they are flat wrong, and are either completely clueless (as is every journalist and judge) or stupid (as are 50% of the judges and government officials)

    50. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This looks like it could be a good case. Norweigian law doesn't properly cover what he did as illegal, and they're trying to prosecute under something only tenuously relevant (and fairly inaccurate).

      It would seem to be a case he should win, and set a nice precedent too.

    51. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They'd better not be saying it too loudly, because in countries where the DMCA doesn't render decryption illegal by default, it's only the fact that the encrpytion is for 'copyright protection' that is keeping some nasty issues from coming up.

      Even more enlightened countries have no trouble recognising that CSS and region coding need not be inextricably linked, and are therefore questioning the legality of region codes anyway.

    52. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by morgue-ann · · Score: 1
      Whether or not the DMCA considers intent is still a matter of debate. Ashcroft, in his department's reply brief in the Felten v. RIAA case said that intent was paramount- Felten didn't hack SDMI to copy some Britney toons, but for research, so it wasn't actionable (& I guess the warning letter was just bad advice). There is also a specific provision for research, but the Justice Department specifically mentioned intent.

      Here's 1201a2


      (2) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that -

      (A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;

      (B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or

      (C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person's knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.


      This, to me, looks kind of like the four tests of fair use. Unfortunately, it's not the intention of whether the device was intended for infringing use, but whether it was intended for use in circumvention (even if otherwise legal) at all that's tested.

      This looks like a pretty awful contradiction. 1201c1 says "(c) Other Rights, Etc., Not Affected. - (1) Nothing in this section shall affect rights, remedies, limitations, or defenses to copyright infringement, including fair use, under this title." so you're supposedly still entitled to fair use, but there's no way to exercise that right.
    53. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Hater's+Leaving,+The · · Score: 1

      Very good comment indeed.

      I'll 'fess up - I have 2 DVDs (/Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels/ bought for 5UKP second hand, and /Falling Down/, bought for 70FIM from a bargain bucket.)

      By 'we' I meant the geeks who go to work wearing "Got DeCSS" T-shirts.

      THL

      --
      Keeping /. cynic density high since the fscking Kwhores/trolls arrived.
    54. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by -brazil- · · Score: 1

      Nope, the majority of humanity lives in countries that are not called "United States of America" and where the above generally proves to be true.

      --

      The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
      --Henry Kissinger

    55. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Grasshopper · · Score: 1

      What is the difference between the terms Britain, Great Britain, and England then, if I may ask?

      I always thought the United Kingdom was Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales, and England (Great Britain), and the Republic of Ireland was a separate entity. Now you're telling me England isn't Great Britain?

      --
      Source code is a lot like a parachute; it needs to be open in order to function properly.
    56. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2

      Nope, England is *part of* Great Britain. It's all terribly complicated, but I'll have a go (and probably *still* be wrong).

      UK = Scotland, England, NI, Wales, Channel Islands, IOM et al

      GB = Scotland, England and Wales (ie. the biggest bit)

      At least, according to my old geography teacher. It does become a PITA when you live on one of the smaller islands like Skye or Lewis, because these are partly considered mainland GB, partly "offshore". It makes getting big heavy servers delivered awkward and expensive...

    57. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Pootie+Tang · · Score: 1
      DeCSS is not needed nor aids in copying DVD movies

      As the replies to your message and many other similar threads on slashdot indicate, it's quite clear that this is widely believed here. I just don't get it. It's quite clear that while DeCSS is not needed it most definately does aid in copying DVD movies.

      Why the furious attempt to deny that by such a large part of the slashdot crowd?

      That needs to be the soundbite that every lay-person needs to hear

      You don't need to (falsely) deny that it aids in DVD piracy to construct a compelling, understandable arguement against outlawing DeCSS. Doing so only hurts your credability.

    58. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok show me the steps to use DeCSS to create an exact copy of the DVD. you cant. DeCSS cannot create or extract the menuing, or "features" .

      again, you CANNOT create an exact copy of a DVD with DeCSS. you can extract the video/audio content and convert it to another format, yes. but it cannot copy the DVD. (let alone have any DVD player play the output of DeCSS

    59. Re:The English story is correctly translated. by Pootie+Tang · · Score: 1
      you CANNOT create an exact copy of a DVD

      True, however you invented this "exact copy" constraint to strengthen your position (which is my point, that /. can't just be honest about this). It doesn't negate the fact that DeCSS can be used to aid piracy. MP3s aren't exact copies of CDs either, doesn't mean mp3 isn't convenient for pirates (of course, that doesn't mean mp3s [or DeCSS] should be outlawed).

  2. This is great by bryan1945 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Now that we have these super-encompassing, yet vague laws regarding computers, data, and the Internet, the authorities have to go and arrest (you'd figure after 2 years of investigations they would have a good idea if he was guilty or not!) people just to "try out the ideas in court"!

    "Hey you, come over here. I've been watching your for 2 hours, and I'm not sure if picking your nose is illegal, but let's see if the courts think that is obscene" (yeah, bad analogy)

    --
    Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
    1. Re:This is great by KenRH · · Score: 2, Informative

      He has not been arrested, under Norwegian law you go free until such time as the court has found you guilty, unless there can be shown a risk for him destroying evidence, repeat offence or trying to run away.

    2. Re:This is great by M_Talon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Hey you, come over here. I've been watching your for 2 hours, and I'm not sure if picking your nose is illegal, but let's see if the courts think that is obscene" (yeah, bad analogy)

      I don't think that's a bad analogy. That's just about what's happening with the copyright vs. fair use issues in America and apparently the world. The real problem is that too many times the person under indictment doesn't have the same financial (and thus legal) power to prove the law is flawed as say a mega corporation who has near endless resources to "prove" the law is correct.

      To extend your analogy, you've been arrested because nose-picking is obscene, but AOL-Time Warner helped put that law into place and they can spend $15 million on lawyers and lobbying to make sure the law is proved right. You can't afford that much, so you're already fighting on a non-level field. Most likely, you'll settle for a small fine or sentence, and now the law has been "proven" to work...even though no good argument against it has been presented in court.

      And that, my fellow /.ers, is the real obscenity.

      --
      Electronic Frontier Foundation for online civil rights information
    3. Re:This is great by ymgve · · Score: 3, Insightful

      a better analogy:

      "Hey you, come over here. I've been watching your for 2 hours, and I'm not sure if picking your nose is illegal, but since it's illegal in Bigcountryia and they feel offended by it, you'll be charged with obscenity. Come now..."

    4. Re:This is great by bbqBrain · · Score: 1

      In the absence of precedent, however, this is required. In addition, this sometimes slow, arduous process results in a law being ruled unconstitutional (in the US, anyway--I don't pretend to know much of the Norwegian justice system). Anyway, the important thing to remember is that untested laws are in a nascent sort of state--sure, they've made it through the legislative approval process, but until a judge has enforced a law, it isn't as "permanent" or binding (I'm not expressing this well; please excuse me :-) ) as a tried-and-true law that has been enforced in multiple cases.

      Chances are, there is very little legal precedent established with this "hacker paragraph." Therefore, this could be a very important case as far as the preservation (or dismissal) of Norway's reverse engineering, fair use, etc., rights. Let's hope Norwegian authorities aren't easily swayed by crates of free DVD's. :-)

      --

      One of the reasons that I became a lawyer was to avoid ever having to hire one. -SPYvSPY
    5. Re:This is great by Isle · · Score: 1

      That is what would happen in America.. In Europe a "settlement" is akind to bribery. So the AOL lawyer would go to jail for a few years and the state would take over the case.

    6. Re:This is great by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2
      To extend your analogy, you've been arrested because nose-picking is obscene, but AOL-Time Warner helped put that law into place and they can spend $15 million on lawyers and lobbying to make sure the law is proved right.
      Back in 1985, in Outremont, Québec, hassidic jews (the jewish equivalent of the taliban) were offended that people would sunbathe in public parks, since the display of human flesh is prohibited by their stupid religion. So, those first-class bigoted assholes pressured the mayor, Jérôme Choquette (whose fantastic human-rights track record includes a suspension of basic human-rights in 1970, when he was minister of justice, and invoked martial law, just to scare some political opponents). He obliginly passed a bylaw prohibiting bathing-suits within the municipality, since the jews have so much money and corrupt laywers (as Choquette is) really love money. (After stunts like that, the jews wonder why everybone hate them to guts...) Anyway, the happy ending is that the bylaw did not last 6 months, it was stuck down by the provincial court as inconstitutional, as only the federal government has the power to regulate, through the criminal code, how people should dress...

      To celebrate, the local newspaper had a picture of Santa-Claus in the park in question, wearing a red bathing suit with white fur edges...

    7. Re:This is great by Niflar · · Score: 1

      the authorities have to go and arrest ... people just to "try out the ideas in court"!

      More accurate:
      The authorities does not say they want to "try out the ideas in court". It is the reporter and Jon Bing (a "cyber-philospher") who are talking about it.

  3. VG Nett has the same story by hajejan · · Score: 2, Informative

    It might be worth noting that VG Nett has the same story here.

    --
    The Mini Repository - more links
  4. The whole case is pretty vague by GauteL · · Score: 5, Insightful

    .. and even though IANAL, I think the whole thing is pretty weak. He seems to be charged with paragraphs mostly used for cracking computers.

    The norwegian article states that the same laws were used to prosecute people cracking TV-coding so that they could watch TV-signals without paying. The norwegian supreme court concluded that those paragraphs could not be used to punish this incident.

    The weakest part to me seems to be the prosecutors words on buying a DVD:
    "When you buy a DVD, you buy the right to view it, but not to copy it".
    This is blatantly false, as people in Norway also have fair use rights to their purchases.

    I was actually a bit shocked to see that he was prosecuted. I would understand it under the DMCA, but Norway does not have these kind of laws.

    1. Re:The whole case is pretty vague by ymgve · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The real reason that they're prosecuting him is that Økokrim (The department responsible for investigating computer crimes here in Norway) and their state prosecutor Inger Marie Sunde are dreaming about a police state where they have absolute control. A week or so ago, she said she wanted to outlaw the use of anonymous email. Normally, one would just ignore such a person, but her high position makes her really dangerous if she ever manage to pass the laws she want to.

    2. Re:The whole case is pretty vague by KeyserDK · · Score: 1, Interesting

      It looks very odd indeed, maybe they are covering up their mistakes by charging him.

      2 years investigation costs alot of money, and if they dont charge him it might not look that good.

      Another motive could be political, i.e. they arent satisfied with the current law. It does seems rather useless in most cases.

      Lets not forget that they dont write anything about norwegian laws ala. 'fair use' in the US. They might not have the right to copy a dvd, and only view it. Depends on the norwegian laws.

      In denmark it's legal to copy for your own use. So it wouldn't be a problem. I think they law the used to charge him is quite rare(one of those new computer laws that are different for each country) besides that it looks as an extremely vague case, allthough as the guy above IANAL.

      --
      still reading?
    3. Re:The whole case is pretty vague by imrdkl · · Score: 1
      The paragraph with which he is charged does not specify computers only, but any data or computer. Any protection on data which is broken for the purpose of gaining un-approved (uberettighet) access to the data might cover the usage of DeCSS, although not necessarily the development or distribution of DeCSS, imho.

      It is my understanding that the court ruled against the attempt to prosecute pirating of TV signals because the signal is not specifically data.

    4. Re:The whole case is pretty vague by GauteL · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Lets not forget that they dont write anything about norwegian laws ala. 'fair use' in the US. They might not have the right to copy a dvd, and only view it. Depends on the norwegian laws. "

      Actually I made a point out of mentioning that we DO. I am norwegian, and we certainly do have fair use rights. Copying for backups (or similiar) is perfectly legal.

    5. Re:The whole case is pretty vague by JCCyC · · Score: 2

      If this is correct, you're saying Norway already has a (half-assed attempt at a) DMCA.

    6. Re:The whole case is pretty vague by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She have had worse ideas than that. At the same time as she wanted to outlaw anonymous email she also wanted to make credit card company's responsible for the goods paid with their services. I wonder how Happy Visa and Mastercard would be to be prosecuted when child molesters bought child pornography with their credit cards?

    7. Re:The whole case is pretty vague by nordicfrost · · Score: 3, Informative
      Well, he did break the law. Me, I think Jon is a talentless semi-cracker that bragged about his efforts (He said first that he did the cracking, but later said the code was from a German guy and he only did the GUI and decrypting.


      here's the Norwegian law he broke:

      145. 1)Den som uberettiget bryter brev eller annet lukket skrift eller på liknende måte skaffer seg adgang til innholdet, eller baner seg adgang til en annens låste gjemmer, straffes med bøter eller med fengsel inntil 6 måneder.

      2)Det samme gjelder den som ved å bryte en beskyttelse eller på lignende måte uberettiget skaffer seg adgang til data eller programutrustning som er lagret eller som overføres ved elektroniske eller andre tekniske midler.

      3)Voldes skade ved erverv eller bruk av slik uberettiget kunnskap, eller er forbrytelsen forøvet i hensikt å skaffe noen en uberettiget vinning, kan fengsel inntil 2 år anvendes.

      4)Medvirkning straffes på samme måte.
      Offentlig påtale finner bare sted når allmenne hensyn krever det.


      What applies to this case is the second and fourth paragraph. The secon says that an attempt or breach of any security measure in a computer system or stored data is punishable. The fourth paragraph says that assisting to do this is equally punishable.


      OK, let's see how Jon can get out of this mess. If he has a decent lawyer, the third paragraph would come in to play. It says that damage has to occur before the law can punish him (With up to two years in jail) or it has to be a profitable crime . What damage has he done, exactly? Making more people able to watch DVDs? Hardly.


      Disclaimer: IAALS (I am a law student).

    8. Re:The whole case is pretty vague by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Decss allows you to copy it , but you still cannot play it outright. (without a little more effort, like drag/drop the files into powerdvd), but who has a dvd burner too?

    9. Re:The whole case is pretty vague by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Man I wish someone like that could have been my aunty or mother so I could tell her what a bitch of a scum she is. I would violate the law in front of her daily.

    10. Re:The whole case is pretty vague by vegardolsen · · Score: 1

      He is indicted for "opening a letter". at least thats the law they use against him. The weakest part to me seems to be the prosecutors words on buying a DVD: "When you buy a DVD, you buy the right to view it, but not to copy it". This is blatantly false, as people in Norway also have fair use rights to their purchases. Didn't he make a program (DeCSS) that allowed him to watch DVD's in Linux? He didn't even crack te crypto.

      --
      Sig e godt =)
    11. Re:The whole case is pretty vague by LarsG · · Score: 2

      Copying for backups (or similiar) is perfectly legal.

      We have - in general - better 'Fair Use' rights in Norway. (Fair Use in quotes, because the US and NO/EU legal traditions regarding copyright exemptions are different - US Fair Use is a legal defence if you break copyright law. NO 'Fair Use' is a set of exemptions enumerated in our copyright law).

      In Norway, you have a carte blanche exemption for creating personal copies. If you own a copy of a work (say, an audio CD), you have the right to take as many copies as you like in any format you like for personal use. So, DivX'ing a DVD to play it on your laptop, or rip and mp3 a CD to listen to it on your MP3 player is perfectly legal.

      --
      If J.K.R wrote Windows: Puteulanus fenestra mortalis!
    12. Re:The whole case is pretty vague by Happy+go+Lucky · · Score: 1
      The real reason that they're prosecuting him is that Økokrim (The department responsible for investigating computer crimes here in Norway) and their state prosecutor Inger Marie Sunde are dreaming about a police state where they have absolute control. A week or so ago, she said she wanted to outlaw the use of anonymous email. Normally, one would just ignore such a person, but her high position makes her really dangerous if she ever manage to pass the laws she want to.

      I'm going to guess that that's just how senior prosecutors behave.

      I don't know how Okokrim is structured or if it's anything like the US Dep't of Justice, under the US Attorney General. DOJ employs all of the US' federal prosecutors, who hold the job title of United States Attorney. There's one for each of 90-odd Federal judicial districts, and each and every one of them is a political appointee with ambitions of high elective office.

      If Norway is similar, then Sunde is just preparing to run for Congress/Parliament/whatever-Norway-calls-it in a few years. Just think-if you're Norwegian, then you'll be able to vote against her soon enough.

  5. Ahhh the journalistic credibility! by Christianfreak · · Score: 3, Funny

    Hopefully the above poster is correct in summarizing the situation.

    I love /.! :)

    1. Re:Ahhh the journalistic credibility! by stripes · · Score: 2

      I donno, saying "I hope it is right" has a lot more credibility then just reading off the teleprompter and sitting above the logo. Real news agencies get stuff wrong too, in fact they almost always get technical stories wrong, but they almost never warn you ahead of time that they are a bunch of cluebags...

    2. Re:Ahhh the journalistic credibility! by Christianfreak · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Mods on CRACK! My original post is flamebait, maybe with a slight bit of troll. It is not offtopic. I even quoted the article! This post however is a perfect example of being offtopic :)

      Long live Dimitry... oh wait I mean Long live Jon!

      Hehehe.

  6. Just another... by cez · · Score: 0, Redundant

    excuse to use vague laws in the hopes that the person under the cracklight...err spotlight would crack. If it happened in the us him, his isp, family, friends and local grocer would be test subjects for the fbis newest violations of the civil liberties.

    --
    Walk with Music;
  7. What the hell.. by InfinityWpi · · Score: 2, Funny

    I've got fifty karma, let's play devil's advocate and see how many people I can get torqued at me.

    When you purchase a DVD, you are paying for the ability to play it on players approved by the people who made the disc. As much as everyone hates to admit it, there is nothing illegal about this. You can buy a DVD without owning a player, and if you do you can't sue about not being able to watch it. Likewise, you can't write a program that lets you watch it on something the makers don't want you to watch it on. Because if they knew you were doing that, they wouldn't sell you the movie.

    We have no 'rights' to view any movie, really. If we did, theaters couldn't make a profit off of tickets, and DVDs would only be priced high enough to cover costs.

    If you want to watch a movie, get a real DVD player. Don't complain because you can't do it on your Linux box. Don't write software that does something illegal. Just like you shouldn't sell de-scrambler kits for cable TV. Same thing, only software.

    1. Re:What the hell.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Yes you do have a right to view it on players unapproved by the content owner.

      It's called 'fair use'. Absent an explicit contract, that's the law. Not even the MPAA is making the argument you are.

      The MPAA has attempted to bypass fair use with CSS and the DMCA. The issue is whether the DMCA can be upheld over fair use rights, not whether fair use rights exist.

    2. Re:What the hell.. by smileyy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      When you purchase a DVD, you are paying for the ability to play it on players approved by the people who made the disc.

      Under the DMCA this is true. The question is whether this will hold up under existing copyright laws.

      Your cable descrambler analogy is invalid, as in that case, the "pirate" has not paid for the content. In the DVD case, the user *has* paid for the content, and, (wholly IMO) has a right to use that content for personal use in whatever way they see fit.

      --
      pooptruck
    3. Re:What the hell.. by YouAreFatMan · · Score: 2
      "When you purchase a DVD, you are paying for the ability to play it on players approved by the people who made the disc. As much as everyone hates to admit it, there is nothing illegal about this. You can buy a DVD without owning a player, and if you do you can't sue about not being able to watch it."

      All true

      "Likewise, you can't write a program that lets you watch it on something the makers don't want you to watch it on."

      Here's the problem. In fact, you can write a program for that purpose. Reverse-engineering is allowed for the purposes of interoperability (at least at the moment in the USA). And I have the right to do whatever I want with that disc as long as I do not violate the copyright -- which means I cannot distribute, publicly broadcast/show the content, etc. Watching it on a linux player in my home, ripping it and converting it to Divx or a VCD, taping it onto VHS, none of these activities are illegal, because they do not violate the copyright.

      --
      Robotiq.com is heavily tested on animals
    4. Re:What the hell.. by klaun · · Score: 3, Interesting
      We have no 'rights' to view any movie, really. If we did, theaters couldn't make a profit off of tickets, and DVDs would only be priced high enough to cover costs.

      The problem with this line of argument is that when you go to a theatre, it doesn't look like you are buying anything. The transaction doesn't make you believe that you are buying the theatre or the spool of film. When you buy a DVD the transaction does look like you are purchasing something, not like you are entering into a contract, or licensing agreement. There has been strong legal precedent that if a transaction looks like you are buying something then you are.

      Elsewhere the poster said: When you purchase a DVD, you are paying for the ability to play it on players approved by the people who made the disc. As much as everyone hates to admit it, there is nothing illegal about this. You can buy a DVD without owning a player, and if you do you can't sue about not being able to watch it.

      How did you get to be the arbiter of this? I'm sorry but the courts disagree. If it looks like a purchase then it is. Basically, you are saying that DVD purchase is a privelege of "club members" and that you get to be part of the club by purchasing an approved DVD player. Most states have laws governing how such clubs operate that as far as I know are being ignored by DVD player manufacturers and retailers.

      P.S. I have moderator points, but I replied to this post rather than mod-ing it down, so all you people that bitch about that should mod me up!

    5. Re:What the hell.. by pmc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm bored, so I'll bite. I'll stop at your first error.

      When you purchase a DVD, you are paying for the ability to play it...

      When you purchase a DVD then you can do anything you want with it - except distribute copies of it. Manufacturers may try to contrain your use to uses that they approve of, but none of these are enforcable.

      Your argument falls to bits after this cornerstone is removed.

      3/10 - Must Try Harder.

    6. Re:What the hell.. by smileyy · · Score: 1
      I have moderator points, but I replied to this post rather than mod-ing it down, so all you people that bitch about that should mod me up!

      I'm glad you did what you did. The post, as it clearly states, is a devil's advocate positions. It outlines what the DVD consortium's position is, and provides a framework for discussion of why that position is not tenable.

      --
      pooptruck
    7. Re:What the hell.. by PoiBoy · · Score: 1
      I'm not torqued at you; I agree with your argument, even if you meant it in jest.

      Entertainment companies sell movies on DVD so that people may watch them at home on DVD players produced by consumer electronics companies.

      If the DVD format is not suitable for you, don't buy it.

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
    8. Re:What the hell.. by Hater's+Leaving,+The · · Score: 1

      The biggest problem is the following scenario:
      - The libertarian holds up the new law and says "this contradicts the good old law".
      - The guys with funny wigs (who are still wondering whether they should upgrade from an AM to an FM radio) say "you're right - we must change the old law".
      - We all say "Ooops".

      There's nothing carved in stone that says that the older law is the less changable one.

      THL.

      --
      Keeping /. cynic density high since the fscking Kwhores/trolls arrived.
    9. Re:What the hell.. by eris_crow · · Score: 1

      OK, I'll bite.

      The reason your argument fails is that we are not, as you claim, buying the right to play the DVD on approved players. We are in fact buying the DVD itself and, just like a book, we may use it in any way that does not infringe copyright. I.e. we may not distribute pure or modified copies to others, nor make such copies available in any way, and we may not put it on public performance for a fee. We can copy it for our own use, show it to our friends, modify it (did you ever write notes in a book?), draw on it with crayons, put Tinky-Winky stickers on it, and play it.

      And we may play it on any device we have since (here's the kicker) there is no license agreement prohibiting us from doing otherwise. We've purchased that disc, and it's ours. For this very reason I expect that in the future we will see media formats be licensed much like software.

    10. Re:What the hell.. by rongage · · Score: 1

      Um, I hate to disagree with you, but...

      When you purchase a product, ANY product, you are purchasing the right to do with that product as you wish within the confines of the law. This means that you are free to take your DVD and use it for skeet practice, glue it to the rear bumper of your car, or play it in any device that can interpret it. There is no license, there is no condition of sale, and I really doubt that the clerks at Best Buy really care what you are going to do with it after you hand them your credit card. Since there is no specific law outlawing the playing of DVD's on "unlicensed players", there is nothing directly to stop you from doing so.

      Your analogy about rights to view a movie don't hold. You aren't purchasing a product when you go to a theatre, you are purchasing a service.

      I have a real DVD player - built into my laptop. It refuses to work under Windows. It works flawlessly under Linux. And yes, I have a set-top box too. It doesn't work that well on airplanes though...

      BTW: this is NOT like cable descramblers. Cable descramblers exist for the sole purpose of theft of service. Since I paid for the DVD, there is no theft.

      --
      Ron Gage - Westland, MI
    11. Re:What the hell.. by Genom · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When you purchase a DVD, you are paying for the ability to play it

      When I purchase a DVD, I'm paying for a plastic or cardboard clamshell-style box, (with accompanying boxart, liner notes, etc...) containing a DVD disc - a physical object - that contains data which, under the right circumstances, can be converted to a viewable picture and accompanying sound.

      If I only wanted to purchase the right to watch the movie, I'd go to a theatre, use Pay-Per-View, or go rent the movie.

      Purchasing the DVD allows me to own a physical object, in the same way that purchasing a hammer, book, or notebook computer allows me to own a physical object.

      If I want to use that hammer to pound nails, I can. I don't have to buy a specific brand of nails, or buy them from a specific store. I can buy any nails I want, from wherever I want, and pound them with the hammer. I can even forego the nails alltogether, and use the hammer in a manner that doesn't involve pounding anything, if I can find a use for it. I own the object.

      If I want to read the book, I can. If I want to photocopy or transcribe parts of it for use in a review, educational work, etc... I can. I can even rip out all the pages of the book and use them as toilet paper if I want. I can burn all the pages of the book (as long as the resultant fire doesn't set the house alight, of course) as kindling to start a fire in the fireplace. I can put the book under a table leg to even out a wobbly table. I can make photocopies of the pages, and plaster my walls with them if I so desire. I can run the pages of the book through OCR software and a text-to-speech program to listen to it (I might be blind) I own the object.

      I can disassemble the notebook computer (voiding the warranty, most likely) and put it's parts back together into a completely different machine - or mix and match parts to build a better machine. I can install any software or operating system I want. I own the object.

      Yet, the argument with DVDs is that you're ot buying the object, that you're instead licensing the content on the disc. What a load of bullshit. I see no "licensing agreement" plastered on the outside of the clamshell case. Yet, if I legally purchase a notebook computer with a DVD drive (blessed by the DVD-CCA, as it's illegal to sell one that isn't) and legally purchase a DVD, unless I'm also running a blessed PLAYER, I can't play it? Bull.

      In addition, if you buy a DVD player, you can (generally) only buy DVDs in the same country as the player. Unlike the hammer, where you could buy your nails in Urugway, China, or England, and still use them, with DVDs, your'e forced to only buy from the country you bought the player in. They do this so they can charge different prices in different areas of the world. This is also called price fixing, and is VERY illegal - yet because the DVD consortium is a giant monied cartel, they are able to simply buy their way around these international laws that would normally prohibit such actions.

    12. Re:What the hell.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      We have no 'rights' to view any movie, really. If we did, theaters couldn't make a profit off of tickets, and DVDs would only be priced high enough to cover costs.


      I do if i've purchased a copy of the movie on physical media.


      There's something called the "doctrine of first sale". There were a series of cases revolving people trying to put wierd restrictions on books they sold at the beginning of the century that the supreme court eventually ruled were not anything that a copyright holder had a right to place on the texts under the copyright given in the constitution. Go look them up.

    13. Re:What the hell.. by Howie · · Score: 1

      There's nothing carved in stone that says that the older law is the less changable one.

      Well, the original 'old law' is Article I of the Constitution, which I suspect takes a little more changing than the average law. (actually - does it? I don't remember from my American Studies class, but I assume that's the case)

      To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

      --
      "don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
    14. Re:What the hell.. by sql*kitten · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When you purchase a DVD, you are paying for the ability to play it on players approved by the people who made the disc.

      If that's true, and I subsequently damage the physical DVD in a way that's no-one's fault but my own, I should be able to get a replacement from the publisher for no more than the cost of the media, duplication and shipping. The fact that this isn't the case suggests that there's little legal precedent for your point.

      Obviously, accidental damage may be covered by insurance, and a faulty DVD has to be replaced for no extra charge because it's not fit for the purpose for which it was sold.

      The argument that you're paying for the right to listen to a piece of music too falls apart, because if that's what you'd bought, then everyone should have been able to upgrade from vinyl to CD for cost of media and distribution. That wasn't the case either.

      So, the media conglomerates are trying to have their cake and eat it, selling you a piece of commodity property and a contractual obligation in one go. The free market is in the process of solving this by disintermediating them. It will just take a while to get the technology out there for musicians and fans to interact directly.

    15. Re:What the hell.. by Maddog+Batty · · Score: 1
      When you purchase a DVD then you can do anything you want with it - except distribute copies of it.

      I read recently, somewhere, I can't find it, that in the UK this is not true. A law has been passed that denies you the right to make a backup copies even if you have not, and have made no attempts to distribute it. (I believe this was with reference to CD's but I'm not sure)

      This worried me a lot. Does anyone else know if this is true or not?

      --
      wot no sig
    16. Re:What the hell.. by Eugene+O'Neil · · Score: 1


      You can buy a DVD without owning a player, and if you do you can't sue about not being able to watch it.


      In other words, you are saying that the manufacturers are ultimatly not responsible for seeing that the interests of the consumers are met: the consumer bears this responsibility. I can agree with that, so far...

      Likewise, you can't write a program that lets you watch it on something the makers don't want you to watch it on. Because if they knew you were doing that, they wouldn't sell you the movie.


      Now you are saying that "likewise", consumers ARE responsible for seeing that the interests of the manufacturer are satisfied. Manufacturers don't have to make something we can use, but they CAN keep us from using the products we paid for in ways they didn't intend or approve of.

      Well, screw you. If manufacturers are not obliged to consider my interests, why should I be obliged to consider theirs? I will use any product I buy any damned way I please, and if that makes their business plan unprofitable, they can go ahead and go out of business. I would no sooner feel sorry for them than they would feel sorry for me buying a DVD without something to play it on: That's what you get for being an idiot.

      Capitalism is supposed to be about mutually benificial transactions between self-interested parties: if an industry cannot survive without artificial legal obligations placed apon the consumer, it does not deserve to exist. In any case, I think that is an empty threat: I have faith that millions of people who have money and want movies will find some way to satisfy their desires. You don't need laws to enforce supply and demand.

    17. Re:What the hell.. by DarenN · · Score: 1


      I don't think you're right. In that case, unless SPECIFICALLY stated in VISIBLE terms all over the DVD, you have bought a physical product. Just like a tape, a VHS video or a CD. Under the 'fair use' precedent, you are even entitled to a backup copy!
      The problem here is to do with the challenge to the control of the viewing. Their encryption was broken, and an unlicensed player was developed. It wuold probably be possible to buy a license for a CSS player for Linux and distribute it. They just don't like their control being removed.

      --
      Rational thought is the only true freedom
    18. Re:What the hell.. by pmc · · Score: 2

      Being based in the UK myself I must say I haven't heard of this, or anything like it.

      The only mutterings I've heard that could be related is to do with region encoding, but that was the EU commission debating the legality of region encoding. In this case they decided not to act. This does not mean that they have decided if they are legal or illegal - just that regional encoding is not anticompetitive and therefore permissible at the moment. But, on the other hand, unlocked players are also permissible.

    19. Re:What the hell.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mod this up, he makes an exellent point

    20. Re:What the hell.. by wurp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are arguing about what is legal, with the tacit assumption that what is legal is right. This is not the case. It is our obligation to try to ensure that what is right is legal. If something that is wrong is legally mandated, or if something that is right is illegal, it is our obligation to break the law.

      As an extreme case, I would imagine that one was legally obligated to turn in your Jewish neighbors in Nazi Germany. It doesn't take too much thought to recognize the fallacy of confusing morality with legality in this instance.

      There are rules that are good for everyone if everyone follows them, but it's beneficial for the individual to break them. Everyone benefits if there is some entity there to enforce everyone behaving that way. That's what government is for. Anything that the government does beyond that is tyranny, and don't let them fool you into thinking that legality == morality. We give great power to the government, and if they can trick you into thinking that anything they use it for is by definition right, they will abuse it hideously.

      So, to bring this back on-topic: Decide for yourself if it is beneficial for everyone overall to allow decrypting DVDs. Then try to make the government do what's right. Personally, I think that restricting reverse engineering, restricting people from reporting security flaws, and the lot of other restrictions that come with the DMCA is tragically imbalanced with the 'benefit' that it theoretically gives (helping put our money in the pockets of some already filthy-rich media executives).

    21. Re:What the hell.. by Hater's+Leaving,+The · · Score: 1

      Argh, I'm not American, and it's a while since I chatted about the guts of US constitutional law with an expert. However, you're probably right, I seem to remember that changes to the constitution need a different process to that of the simple repealing of other laws.

      What you cite upholds the MPAA's view more than the EFF's view, for reference. (To my mind, that is, as they are the self-appointed promoters of the "useful arts", and upholders of the "exclusive rights".)

      I think we've drifted off the precise Norwegian-law-oriented topic back onto the well-trodden DVD-cases path! Ooops!

      THL.

      --
      Keeping /. cynic density high since the fscking Kwhores/trolls arrived.
    22. Re:What the hell.. by Flower · · Score: 2
      Nope. Read the recent court decision in the 2600 case. The Appellate court dismantles the defence's right to view argument and specifically states that with the DMCA it is the right to decrypt the work that is at issue.

      Furthermore, it is the copyright holder who retains the right to give permission to decrypt. So if the MPAA thinks their isn't a legitimate DVD player for linux they are perfectly in their rights to say you can't play a CSS encrypted DVD using software like LiViD.

      --
      I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
    23. Re:What the hell.. by 2Bits · · Score: 2

      ..., and if you do you can't sue about not being able to watch it.

      Yeah, maybe. But I can put the disc under my ass and fart on it, can't I?

      But then again, I wouldn't do that, as that's a waste of my energy on something I disdain. Well, even farting requires energy, so...

    24. Re:What the hell.. by Flower · · Score: 2
      From the MPAA v. 2600 Court of Appeals decision:
      Third, the Appellants argue that an individual who buys a DVD has the "authority of the copyright owner" to view the DVD, and therefore is exempted from the DMCA pursuant to subsection 1201(a)(3)(A) when the buyer circumvents an encryption technology in order to view the DVD on a competing platform (such as Linux). The basic flaw in this argument is that it misreads subsection 1201(a)(3)(A). That provision exempts from liability those who would "decrypt" an encrypted DVD with the authority of a copyright owner, not those who would "view" a DVD with the authority of a copyright owner.15 In any event, the Defendants offered no evidence that the Plaintiffs have either explicitly or implicitly authorized DVD buyers to circumvent encryption technology to support use on multiple platforms.16

      While it is obvious that the disc is owed by the consumer it seems that the encrypted data is not and providing a license for the work is not required. IMHO, accepting the fact that I am not a legal expert, this is the second most damning paragraph in the entire decision with the opinion on Fair Use being the first.

      While this may not be applicable in other countries at the moment I do see it as something to look out for down the road. People really should read the decision.

      --
      I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
    25. Re:What the hell.. by seer · · Score: 1

      Hmm. Makes me think: You need a DVD-ROM to read the data off the disc, right? So you already _have_ a player, just not the software the goes with the player. The player I have even has the "DVD Video" symbol on it. Doesn't that make it closer to being legit?

    26. Re:What the hell.. by mpe · · Score: 2

      When you purchase a DVD, you are paying for the ability to play it on players approved by the people who made the disc.BR>
      This is stated exactly where?

      As much as everyone hates to admit it, there is nothing illegal about this.

      Nor is there anything legal about it either.

    27. Re:What the hell.. by stapedium · · Score: 1

      Woah...there is a lot to respond to.
      Purchasing the DVD allows me to own a physical object, in the same way that purchasing a hammer, book, or notebook computer allows me to own a physical object.

      Yes you own the physical media, but the physical media is not the content. It contains a copy of the content, but you do not own the content.

      On to your hammer analogy

      I can even forego the nails alltogether, and use the hammer in a manner that doesn't involve pounding anything, if I can find a use for it. I own the object.

      You cannot however do illegal things with it like break the lock to the back door of a movie theatre so you and your friends can watch the movie for free.

      Finally...

      They do this so they can charge different prices in different areas of the world. This is also called price fixing, and is VERY illegal

      Charging different prices in different parts of the world for the same or similar products is NOT illegal. It is not even illegal to charge different prices for the same or similar products in the U.S. (Other countries like Germany may have some different laws...). There are lots of industries that charge vastly different prices for the same product depending on the market (drugs companies, car companies, etc ). Most countris go along with this because it makes long-term economic makes sense. There are exceptions (India (drugs), South Africa (drugs), Austrailia (DVDs) ), that happen when a country feels these agreements are not in the best intrest of its citizens.

    28. Re:What the hell.. by AKAJack · · Score: 1

      If you throw your hammer through someones window (a use it wasn't designed for) you might be caught and punished. If everyone in your neighborhood puts in Lexan (polycarbonate) windows because they're tired of your childish displays, you do NOT have a right for redress because you can no longer do "whatever you want" with the hammer. You're trying to do something that isn't legal anyway.

      Whether you like it or not "using" a DVD anyway you want is not legal either. Lobby your American congress to change the laws if you don't like it. You can't legally show your DVD to a paying audience either. Does that bother you?

      Price fixing requires the *different* manufacturers or distributors in a region to conspire to set the price for their products. If one manufacturer on their own sells the same product for different prices in different regions that is not price fixing. It's called marketing. As an aside price fixing is NOT illegal in most countries. Given that the government is usually the benneficiary of the price fixing (tobacco and telephone monoplies are examples) this doesn't really hurt your basic argument, but the fact is you are incorrect that price fixing is illegal.

      The conclusion is that in the U.S. you don't have the right to break the law to use a product anyway you want. If that means breaking the DMCA (by reverse engineering crypto or outright breaking it) so you can play DVDs on you Linux system, BeBox, OS2, VAX/VMS, etc. then it's an illegal use of the product. Period.

      There are numerous laws that restrict the use of hammers and books (banning) in the U.S.A. so I'm not sure what the problem is with restricting how DVDs can be used, watched, etc.

      It's exactly the "I can do anything I want" mentality that makes these big companies uncomfortable and eventually act with draconian laws.

      Remember the entire U.S. economy, culture, and history is built upon Commerce and if you think the government is going to side with something that inhibits business making more money you are saddly mistaken. Check out how many of the first ten admendments to the Constitution have yet to be shreaded by the courts.

      Do what you want, but at least face the fact that the business now has more *RIGHTS* to do what they want than you do.

    29. Re:What the hell.. by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 2

      Theoretically, DVDs are sold with the understanding that compatibility is only assured if the player displays the appropriate logos-- specifically the region code symbol (a world map with a number stamped on it), and the DVD-Video logo.

      DVD-ROM drives, of course display the DVD-Rom logo--the player application provides the DVD-Video logo.

      All of these logos are protected by trademark laws--if a manufacturer wants to stamp their product with this logo, they must pay fees, royalties, and sign over their first born.

      Thus, DVD's are incompatible with your linux machine. Look! does your debian system documentation use those logos? Of course not.

      No, I have not overdosed on 'shrooms. It has, in fact, been a long time since I "touched the face of god." In fact, Sega (IIRC) tried to use the trademark laws in a similar manner to preempt third party games.

      1. System would not boot game unless special loader code was presesnt.
      2. Loader code would (as a side effect) display Sega logo on screen.
      3. Consequently, any third party game for the system would be liable for trademark infringement.

    30. Re:What the hell.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps because the DMCA allows them to prosecute for decryption...

      But surely there's a major concern here if a closed format is used to enforce such close controls between the discs and the players. It starts to look anticompetitive...

    31. Re:What the hell.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You cannot however do illegal things with it like break the lock to the back door of a movie theatre so you and your friends can watch the movie for free.

      The problem here is that the 'illegal thing' has become any and all use of a hammer. A government with a few more brains might recognise that the illegal activity is the one that is against the law, not the one that might eventually lead to doing something naughty. Copyright infringement is already illegal, it makes no sense to also overprotect the ways they try to stop it (along with a swag of legal activities that don't benefit the publishers).

      Charging different prices in different parts of the world for the same or similar products is NOT illegal. It is not even illegal to charge different prices for the same or similar products in the U.S. (Other countries like Germany may have some different laws...). There are lots of industries that charge vastly different prices for the same product depending on the market (drugs companies, car companies, etc ). Most countris go along with this because it makes long-term economic makes sense. There are exceptions (India (drugs), South Africa (drugs), Austrailia (DVDs) ), that happen when a country feels these agreements are not in the best intrest of its citizens.

      Being from Australia, we actually have a government considering some of these things, since we do tend to get screwed out of releases and cop high prices on many things. Price fixing is illegal. The movie studios are free to charge lower prices in India if the people don't have as much money for luxuries, but they cannot collude to set an artificially high price for products here compared to the rest of the world, nor can they prevent users here from importing the product from another cheaper source if they want. Only retailers are restricted to selling only local versions of the product (where one is available). The only thing that is saving the movie companies from hefty fines at the moment is that multiregion and region free players are legal (the govt. recognises that region coding is NOT copyright protection so not covered by anti-cirumvention laws), and can be used to get around these technologies (it will be interesting to see what happens as RCE is used more).

    32. Re:What the hell.. by Jebediah21 · · Score: 2

      If that were true the RIAA would probably take 25 cents off the price every CD you want to upgrade to.

      --

      Everytime you look at porn a devil gets their horns.
    33. Re:What the hell.. by clare-ents · · Score: 2

      If I only purchase the right to play it on approved players does that mean throwing it in the bin is illegal, or did I purchase that right too?

      Can I hang it on my wall? Can I enlarge the cover to use a poster in my house? Can I play it with the video switched off so I only get the audio? Can I image it with a scanning electron microscope to get a picture of the pits? Can I pass it through a hash function to generate random data? Can I use it as a one time pad for my encryption system? Can I give it to a friend? Can I use it as a drinks mat? Can I use it as a frisbee? Can I remove the disk from the packaging and post it to a friend? Can I use it as a mirror? Can I build an ornament out of it?

      I know I can't copy the data on it - thats copyright law, but what else is forbidden? Don't you think they should tell you on the pack?

      --
      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. (Einstein)
    34. Re:What the hell.. by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2
      "When you purchase a DVD, you are paying for the ability to play it on players approved by the people who made the disc"



      Really? Where is the EULA your signed and your lawyer or notary to make sure your legally binding agreement is official?



      First off the EULA's for software programs has never even been tested in US courts and is actually illegal in Germany and a few other countries. Why? No notary or lawyer and fair use issues made the governments make laws agaisn't them or the courts ruled that the hidden EULA's are bullshit. Second not only was there no offical notary at your dvd store but you didn't even sign an agreement or even seen one. The fact of the matter is that your dvd's are YOURS. Infact if the court system ever finds EULA's non binding then even your copy of Windows is your as well. Microsoft would be terrified of any such event but facts are facts. Third you also have the right to do whatever you want with your product except under copyright laws. You can make copies of it and even rip it(if no circumvention technology is in it). The only thing you can't do is distribute the movie because the content is copyrighted but not owned by the major studio's. THats right! A patent is ownership of a product or idea but a copyright is just to guaruntee credit of a work to an individual and to prevent counterfiting. They only own the copyright and content on the disc but not the disc itself! The DMCA is total bullshit because it gives patent like and almost god like powers to the studio's and software companies. Even though they only own the copyright of the product but not the product itself, they now have the power of really owning it. They can say don't rip this or else like they own it and be the judge and jury of how you use your own dvd's. EVEN UNDER FAIR USE. With CPRM in scsi and soon to be in eide hard drives, expect to have your own computer be the judge and jury for some movie executives in hollywood who now have ownership rights of how you use your hard drive as well as your dvd player.

    35. Re:What the hell.. by werdna · · Score: 2

      When you purchase a DVD, you are paying for the ability to play it on players approved by the people who made the disc

      Not close. You are just making this up as you go along. As owner of title in and to the copy of the work I purchased, I am free to exercise any right in the work not contracted away, subject to the limitations of the Copyright Act. "Playing on players approved by the Copyright Owner" is not one of the exclusive rights provided in 17 USC section 106.

      In short, if that were the basis for the argument, MPAA would be out of luck. This is why MPAA needed the DMCA to shut down DeCSS -- the copyright Act expressly permits creation of and most uses of the software.

      I obtained title to my DVD's by paying for them. That title was the consideration for my yankee dollars. The only way they could change the deal after the fact was to change the law -- so they did, circumventing the copyright act with anticircumvention laws. But that has nothing whatsoever to do with the above-quoted suggestion, which isn't the law anywhere.

  8. The wording of the law in question... by yggdrazil · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A quick translation of the law in question: "To break a protection mechanism or otherwise getting unauthorized access to data which is stored or transmitted electronically or by other technical means, and cause damage by gaining or using such unwarranted knowledge." (Copied from story in Aftenposten in Norwegian.)

    Aftenposten also has a story in English.

    This is the exact same paragraph which is used to convict hackers in Norway.

    He might very well get convicted, I'm sad to say. He did break a protection mechanism, or distribute a means to break a protection mechanism. Although that mechanism was severely flawed.

    1. Re:The wording of the law in question... by well_jung · · Score: 2
      A quick translation of the law in question: "To break a protection mechanism or otherwise getting unauthorized access to data which is stored or transmitted electronically or by other technical means, and cause damage by gaining or using such unwarranted knowledge."

      But what about the ", and cause damage by gaining or using such unwarrented knowledge" bit? It's not illegal to break in, it's illegal to break in and cause damage. At least, that's how I read it.

      --
      Carl G. Jung
      --
      "With one breath, with one flow, You will know Synchronicity" -La Policia
    2. Re:The wording of the law in question... by gaijin_ · · Score: 1

      But he did have authorized access to the data on the DVD's he has. He probably already had accessed it before the DeCSS was made.

      You don't punish a data security responible in a company for breaking through their firewall. But you would punish someone else who did the same.

    3. Re:The wording of the law in question... by KjetilK · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I'm Norwegian too, and I think actually the law is pretty clear, and I really can't understand how they can indict him after this wording.

      The encryption isn't protected, the movie is. So, if he hadn't bought the movie but grabbed without having bought it, he would have broken the law. But he didn't do that. The movie was his. He bought it. He has the right to access it, according to the law.

      Even Jon Bing, a law professor and a huge authority in Norway, and well, I guess I should refrain from any characterizations of him, even said that he thought JLJ didn't break the law.

      I don't think they can win this case.

      --
      Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
    4. Re:The wording of the law in question... by Rupert · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But the access was authorized. He bought the DVD. There is no law I am aware of that says you can't minutley examine your own possessions.

      --

      --
      E_NOSIG
    5. Re:The wording of the law in question... by ukryule · · Score: 2

      From the law you describe, the courts would have to prove that he got "unauthorized access to data ... and cause damage by gaining or using such ...".

      If he bought the DVDs that he used to break the encoding, then does he have the right to access the data? If so he hasn't gained 'unauthorized access' so hasn't broken the law.

      And even if he doesn't have the right to break the encryption on his own DVD, they still have to prove he caused damage because of the unencrypted data. The law is protecting the data on the disks he decrypted, not the encryption. Thus, I would have thought he is pretty safe.

      Oh, and by the way, I guess the Slashdot interview with him may be of interest again.

    6. Re:The wording of the law in question... by Ioldanach · · Score: 1

      But what about the ", and cause damage by gaining or using such unwarrented knowledge" bit? It's not illegal to break in, it's illegal to break in and cause damage. At least, that's how I read it.

      Sure, but its easy for a company to say, "and since he distributed this, our profits were impacted due to fewer dvd player sales and fewer dvd sales since people could now copy dvd's." And yes, I know DeCSS is irrelevant for dvd copying, and allowing more users access to view dvd's can do nothing but increase dvd's usefulness. A judge, however, might be convinced otherwise.

    7. Re:The wording of the law in question... by yggdrazil · · Score: 1

      The prosecution will probably emphasize the following:

      1. He did break (or assist in breaking) a protection mechanism.

      2. He did cause economical damage to movie industry.

      And the law might be broad enough convict him for that.

    8. Re:The wording of the law in question... by well_jung · · Score: 2

      While it is true that the MPAA or whatever Evil manifests itself as in Scandanavia could show harm or damage done to them. however, I for one would welcome the opportunity to force them to demonstrate this harm.

      We all know that most DVD pirating goes on in Asia, with stamping machines that make exact copies of the physical media. I sincerely doubt much of anything has been lost due to DeCSS, save lawyer fees. I say "Bring it on."

      --
      Carl G. Jung
      --
      "With one breath, with one flow, You will know Synchronicity" -La Policia
  9. Clueless authorities by hasse · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The national norwegian authorities for economic crime, that have indicted Jon Johansen, are genrally known to be clueless when it comes to technology. Their latest move in this regard was to reccomend outlawing anonymous email.

    When it comes to Jon Johansen, he was initially quoted saying that he only made the gui for DeCSS and that the program itself was made by som german in his group. Only later did he claim to be the author of the entire program.

    He was hired for his "skillz" by some startup norwegian dotcom, but was soon sacked.

    1. Re:Clueless authorities by arcade · · Score: 2

      Bullshit, he has never claimed to be the author of the entire program.

      --
      "Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
    2. Re:Clueless authorities by francofil · · Score: 1

      He was not sacked but headhunted by another company

  10. Taste of our own medicine (tongue in cheek) by InterruptDescriptorT · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hey, if the Norwegian authorities determine that it is indeed illegal to distribute the DeCSS source code, does that mean that the Norwegian authorities will call the FBI to have US citizens arrested, detained and then extradited to stand trial in Norway?

    I mean, after all, isn't that what the FBI does now? When a foreign national breaks a US law but is not currently in the country, we have foreign law enforcement authorities extradite them to the US to stand trial. The US government has been doing this for years--imagine if the Norwegian government began to do that same? The country would be devoid of DVD-owning Linux users. :-(

    --
    Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
    1. Re:Taste of our own medicine (tongue in cheek) by vidarh · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's not the same. He has been indicted in Norway, because they claim he has broken Norwegian law. Besides, there is no extradition treaty between Norway and the US, and Norwegian courts are in general careful about extraditing anyone to the US due to a general scepticism of the US court system.

    2. Re:Taste of our own medicine (tongue in cheek) by mpe · · Score: 2

      He has been indicted in Norway, because they claim he has broken Norwegian law. Besides, there is no extradition treaty between Norway and the US, and Norwegian courts are in general careful about extraditing anyone to the US due to a general scepticism of the US court system.

      Many countries refuse to extradition to countries who fail various human rights criteria. Most obviously through use of capital punishment, though there is a rather long list which applies to the USA.

  11. From norwegian newspaper Dagbladet by bob@dB.org · · Score: 5, Informative
    My translation of the Dagbladet (norwegian newspaper) article. Spelling and gramatical errors are mine, factual errors are those of Dagbladet and the norwegian Police.

    The 18 year only Jon Lech Johansen has been indicted for breaking the "computer trespasing" paragraph of the norwegian criminal code.

    Thursday January 10, 2002 14:02, updated 14:53.

    This is confirmed to NTB by attorney Inger Marie Sunde. Johansen has since January 2000 been charged by the norwegian financial crimes unit (Økokrim) after being reported by the american movie- and entertainment organization Movie Picture Association (MPA).

    The background is that Johansen in 1999 participated in creating a program, DeCSS, that make it possible to play back DVD movie under the Linux operating system, and made it available on the internet. The program can also be used to decrypt the content of DVD-disks and makes it possible to copy the movie.

    Johansen is indicted for participating in breaking the protection system Content Scrambling System (CSS), that protects the content of DVD-disks from copying.

    Johansen is indicted based on the criminal code paragraph 145, parts two and tree Sunde informs the NTB.

    From the inditement:

    "- For by breaking a protection scheme, of by similar activities unjustly having gained access to data stored of transmitted by electronic or other technical means and by having caused damage by gaining or using such unjustly obtained knowledge."

    The charged offense carries a maximum sentence of 6 months in prison.

    --
    Acts@core.mailboks.com Acrux@core.mailboks.com Adam@core.mailboks.com Adar@core.mailboks.com Ada@core.mailboks.com
    1. Re:From norwegian newspaper Dagbladet by sql*kitten · · Score: 2

      My translation of the Dagbladet (norwegian newspaper) article. Spelling and gramatical errors are mine, factual errors are those of Dagbladet and the norwegian Police.

      Doh! Now they'll be after you for abusing the intellectual property rights of Dagbladet!

    2. Re:From norwegian newspaper Dagbladet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and by having caused damage by gaining or using such unjustly obtained knowledge.

      IANAL and I know they'll probably try to argue that damage is from lost revenue, but what damage has been caused by the breaking of CSS?
      Wasn't it stated in the 2600 case that not a single case of DVD piracy could be linked with DeCSS? and even if they could, I would've thought that the damage rests with the person who misused DeCSS to illegally copy the DVD.

  12. Re:I'm not a troll... by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

    The problem is that this site relies on the editors and readers to submit stories. If they don't find any good stories, then they submit 2nd rate ones.

    If you have no news, you have to put something there, or you'd have /. not change for a couple of days sometimes.

    Also, there is a group of people on /. who are privacy/legal/freedom freaks (I use that term affectionately). They _do_ care about this type of story.

    Question- what kind of stuff would you like to see?

    As for this story, as I stated above, the governments of this world are really ratcheting up the vice-grips of content protection. At this rate, it will be illegal for you to even watch a DVD you bought because you are decoding the damn thing! (Ok, that's a bit over the top.)

    --
    Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
  13. Surely it's irrelevant now? by kaiidth · · Score: 5, Informative

    DeCSS isn't a trade secret any longer, according to this kuro5hin story from November, and also according to the story linked to from the Norwegian site... According to the EFF even the DVD CCA have stopped attempting to limit its distribution.

    Also, according to this, the DVD CCA claimed at least once that reverse engineering the CSS code was 'in principal lawful', and that the illegal part of it was from the fact that the reverse engineering was done from a piece of software which required you to click through a contract that said you agreed not to do so.

    All of which makes me wonder why the Norwegians have decided to make a fuss about it now. Just when I thought we'd finally heard the last of CSS lawsuits.

    Added to which, I have no idea about the Norwegian law but surely the kid was a minor at the time? He's only 18 now! Maybe it's different in Norway but most countries seem to relax laws somewhat for children...?

    1. Re:Surely it's irrelevant now? by GauteL · · Score: 3, Informative

      I know why "the Norwegians" have decided to make a fuss about it.

      It all comes down to parts of the prosecution and government in Norway, trying to be soooo concious about their "international responsibility".

      The Norwegian prosecutors have blindly followed the US without questioning if this is actually is even remotely illegal in Norway. Trying a case "just to see if it is illegal" is just BS.

      Electronic "shrink wrap"-contracts isn't even VALID in Norway. Not in the least, so this argument cannot even be used.

      The courts should just dismiss this case, and give a warning to the prosecutors that the next time they try a case without a clear notion that something illegal has happened, they would be in contempt (is that spelled correctly?) of the court.

    2. Re:Surely it's irrelevant now? by gmhowell · · Score: 2

      IANAL, but looking at the k5 link, it seems that distributing the key is only legal in CA. And that only for the time being. The decision(s) of the CA Supreme Ct. are only binding there, not over the rest of the US. And certainly not the rest of the world.

      Although, it is not unusual for the US to demand that other countries prosecute foreign citizens for breaking US law, even though the US doesn't always do the same (ie, prosecute USians for breaking the same law in the US)

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    3. Re:Surely it's irrelevant now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      in norway you are legally considered an adult when you're 16

    4. Re:Surely it's irrelevant now? by Kaira · · Score: 1

      In Norway you can be prosecuted - ie. held responsible for your own actions in a court of law - when you are 14. You are not legally an adult until you are 18.

      --
      DTD did the job on me // now I am a real sickie // guess I have to break the news
    5. Re:Surely it's irrelevant now? by dhamsaic · · Score: 2

      I don't think it's irrelevant at all. I got a site pulled earlier this month (not the one I have linked, but a private site) for having DeCSS mirrored. Not the DeContents Scrambling System, but the DeCascading Style Sheets version. Of course, that didn't stop the MPAA's lawyers from sending a letter to my provider. I found out after my site wouldn't come up, throwing a "403 - Forbidden". A number of emails and a day later, I found out that the MPAA had contacted the provider and demanded that the domain be disabled. Of course, I fired a letter back at my provider *and* at the MPAA, and the site was back online within an hour. Still, this matter is not closed to the MPAA.

      --
      Every once in a while I like to masturbate a new word into my vocabulary, even if I don't know what it means.
  14. When you buy a VHS-tape..... by gaijin_ · · Score: 1

    When you buy a VHS-tape they can punish you for *building* your own VCR and playing it, just as they can't punish you for building your own DVD-player to play your DVD's.

    This is about building a DVD player.

  15. Let's all give up and open our wallets by f00zbll · · Score: 2, Funny

    Better yet, just have everyone's pay check automatically deduct 30% and send it to RIAA/MPAA. Since everyone is a crook including every executive at RIAA/MPAA, we should all just give in.

  16. I might be wrong but... by leroy152 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    are they indicting him just to get a judge to make a ruling about the law? Isn't the adgenda of prosecutor to put criminals away and not to try potentially innocent (they're not even sure) with an intrusive court case just to find out a judges interpretation of an ambigious law.

    Next thing ye know, they'll have prosecutors setting up people just to see if a new law can be applied, wait for a conviciton, then if the innocent can be bothered with an appeal, add in a statement such as "Oh, it was kinda entrapment, it just didn't seem relevant to tell the court at the trial *shrug*, but at least we know how the law should be interpreted!".

    Then again, I might be completely wrong, and if that's the case then ... mookle.

    Cheers,

    leroy.

    1. Re:I might be wrong but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IANAEL (I am not an Europeen lawyer) but it seems that in Europe, you are guilty until proven innocent, not like in the USA where it's you are innnocent until proven guilty...

  17. MPAA's Logic of CSS by Catiline · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm not associated with the MPAA, but after some thought on this I came up with the only reasonable explanation for their behavior.

    They (of course) don't want to ever lose control of their works. Their ideal world would be one with no public domain at all, no fair use, and every time you sang "Happy Birthday" you made a mircopayment.

    So here's what they do. First they need to get total control of their current works, so they create a "copy control scheme"- yes, CSS. But wait, CSS doesn't stop copying- pirates can copy a DVD and the CSS layer (with the right equipment; almost certainly possible with the same used by the studios to make the DVDs to start with, or such with small modifications). So CSS won't effectivly stop copying, just "unauthorized" access.

    Step two in this nefarious scheme is to make it illegal to break this protection scheme (vis a vis the DMCA). And now, the perpetrators rest assured that (barring any bumps) they can now gain income on their works forever. Why? Because I can't try to de-CSS (or if you prefer DeCSS) a DVD movie (even one that has passed into public domain) without doing something illegal. So whoever CSS'd the movie in the first place becomes the only legal distributor, even though the content may (technically) be in the public domain.

    Yes, even I recognize this as being overtly paranoid, but I challenge you to come up with a better alternative explanation of recent events.

    1. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS by /ASCII · · Score: 1

      Not 100% sure about this, but I belive thet DVDs dont have to be encrypted at all.

      --
      Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
    2. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh yes I'm sure that Disney doesn't need to access control their dvds but then tell me how many you think they release that aren't?

    3. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS by blakestah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You missed step three.

      After decryption is broken, get in bed with Microsoft. Have Microsoft patent the use of trusted RAM and trusted operating systems (already done) so that only Microsoft and its licensees (MacOS) will be able to play encrypted movies. The next generation of encryption will include decryption devices in the playback hardware - the monitors, and the speakers. These will become industry defaults, and will apply not only to movies by the MPAA, but also to streamed media delivered via the Internet (which is then rendered uncopyable, principally because it cannot even be played on an open source OS). Hardware makers go along because all computer users have to upgrade again, and unless you can force another upgrade cycle, everyone already has a computer powerful enough to do what they use it for.

      Microsoft and MacOS thus become the only viable operating systems for playing movies, music, and streamed media via the internet (which can then be sold viably because it cannot be copied). Think I am kidding - come back in two years when this is happening.

      As for Johansen, the MPAA is simply making him suffer a little. They want nothing more than to prevent anyone else from becoming a Jon Johansen. So, they dug for months to find any law that could be used to even indict him. This will not be the end, either, I suspect civil charges will be next. The MPAA is protecting the crown jewels, the IP law it bought from Congress, and it has a LOT of value at stake.

    4. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS by /ASCII · · Score: 1

      You're missing the point. If a public domain DVD can be unencrypted, then it is legal to make copies of it. The issue here is about public domain footage, not about stealing from Disney.

      --
      Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
    5. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's about what happens when Disney's content goes public domain and we don't have the right to copy the movie 'cause they put CSS on it and the DMCA (or its successor) won't let you crack the access control

    6. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS by /ASCII · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ho hum, that is a good point.

      Whenever the copyright of Snowwhite expires, we'll only have the right to copy and give away the VHS version. Sinister.

      --
      Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
    7. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS by Catiline · · Score: 1

      Okay, okay so I simplified a little. I didn't want to lose anyone with my arguments- though you sure have added a few things I hadn't thought about.

      What the argument really comes down to though is that the content companies (MPAA, RIAA) want the access to their materials to be controlled, so that eventually I make a micropayment each time I listen to a CD, watch a movie, and so forth. And to do this, they need to control the access and to do that they need to make it illegal for alternatives to exist.

      I don't like this vision of the future. That's why I use Linux- I want my freedoms. The case against Johansen boils down to seeing if intelectual ideas behind laws written to exclude people from breaking & entering computer networks are extendible to exclude people from breaking access controls and getting at your IP (never mind that you want them to do that anyway; "straining at gnats and swallowing camels are required courses at any law school" (R.A. Heinlien).

      If this thinly veiled lawsuit wins, I'm chucking my computer into the nearest river and going total Luddite. I'd much rather face a daily stuggle for survival than a daily struggle for my basic freedoms.

    8. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS by cpuffer_hammer · · Score: 3

      There is another step (call it 3 or 4)

      Do not let artists or other content creatores distribute products without paying the studio or label.
      If they control the press than artiests will only be able to say what the studios and labels will let them. At the price the studios want to pay.

      Artists will not get payed and audance will pay more.

      Freedom of Speach is at at stake here.

    9. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS by blakestah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If this thinly veiled lawsuit wins, I'm chucking my computer into the nearest river and going total Luddite. I'd much rather face a daily stuggle for survival than a daily struggle for my basic freedoms.

      The point is not to win. The MPAA would probably like to win because it would send a stronger message, but the real point is making Johansen's life a living hell so that no sane person wants to be the next Jon Johansen. The MPAA feels threatened in its ability to use IP laws to protect its copyrights - its crown jewels. It has billions of dollars at stake, and the payment to its lawyers to make JJ suffer will easily be worth it if the next hacker thinks long and hard before making decryption software publicly available.

      This is also why this criminal case is not the end. The civil cases come next, because no amount of suffering is enough for the goals of the MPAA.

    10. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS by Legion303 · · Score: 4, Informative
      They (of course) don't want to ever lose control of their works. Their ideal world would be one with no public domain at all, no fair use, and every time you sang "Happy Birthday" you made a mircopayment.

      They're already getting that world. http://eon.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/golanvashcroft/ discusses a challenge to two copyright act amendments which effectively hose PD (namely, the Sonny Bono CTEA act and the URAA, which allows companies to retroactively reassign copyright to works already in the public domain). Predictably, the Crackdot editors were so busy hitting "reject" that they missed the submission. That or they didn't think it was important that PD works are being raped by media corporations.

      You touched upon the apparent real reason the MPAA is pushing so hard for these types of laws: they don't care if the work is copied, they just want to have absolute control over its distribution. It would be nice if the courts started looking more closely at region encoding.

      -Legion

    11. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS by stapedium · · Score: 1

      Except that there is a little something called live performance that will prevent this from happening.

      It's all cyclical. Once the RIAA and MPAA or whoever make it overly difficult or expensive to view content I will simply go watch someone in a live play.

    12. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS by mikethegeek · · Score: 2

      " You touched upon the apparent real reason the MPAA is pushing so hard for these types of laws: they don't care if the work is copied, they just want to have absolute control over its distribution. It would be nice if the courts started looking more closely at region encoding."

      It would be nice if the DOJ and the courts would start looking at industry groups like the MPAA and RIAA as monopoly cartels, and a violation of the Sherman antitrust act.

      --
      === The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
    13. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS by Legion303 · · Score: 2
      It would be nice if the DOJ and the courts would start looking at industry groups like the MPAA and RIAA as monopoly cartels, and a violation of the Sherman antitrust act.

      That would be great, but after the DoJ's wishy-washy handling of Microsoft I don't expect it to happen within my lifetime.

      -Legion

    14. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS by HiThere · · Score: 2

      So clearly if you are going to do something like that, you'd better not use your right name. And distribute it from someone else's computer. (Without their knowledge.)

      War driving may have a brand new purpose!
      .

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    15. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS by mikethegeek · · Score: 2

      "That would be great, but after the DoJ's wishy-washy handling of Microsoft I don't expect it to happen within my lifetime."

      We are all fooling ourselves if we think any meaningful reform will EVER happen unless we quit voting for our 2 party one party system...

      When it comes to business interests vs. cilil liberty, guess what loses, every time, regardless of the party in power?

      --
      === The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
    16. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS by Legion303 · · Score: 2
      We are all fooling ourselves if we think any meaningful reform will EVER happen unless we quit voting for our 2 party one party system...

      I understand what you're saying, but "one party" isn't what you meant, is it?

      Anyway (edging ever farther from the topic), a two-party (or even multiple party) system isn't the problem, the problem is that the two parties are pretty much identical. :)

      -Legion

    17. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS by mikethegeek · · Score: 2

      " Anyway (edging ever farther from the topic), a two-party (or even multiple party) system isn't the problem, the problem is that the two parties are pretty much identical. :)"

      That was my point. When it comes to giving the IP cartel what it wants, BOTH parties are quick to put their hands out and give their vote.

      The DMCA passed 536-0 (House, Senate, and President), by a voice vote, with no floor debate.

      That's says it all, really.

      --
      === The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
  18. Could someone explain how... by wo1verin3 · · Score: 2

    ...he is being charged with this here and now?

    According to this article he was charged around Jan 2000?

    What happened?

    1. Re:Could someone explain how... by arcade · · Score: 2

      No, in Jan 2000 all his computers and stuff was confiscated as evidence, he was questioned and so forth. He was not charged with anything - but he was placed 'under investigation'.

      The investigation took two fucking years.

      --
      "Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
  19. Europe: Stop acting so damned superior. by supabeast! · · Score: 1, Funny

    Well, given that he was indicted by Norwegian authorities, at least now the European Slashdotters can stop acting so damned superior and complaining about America running this whole mess, because now we know that your leaders are sleazy coporate puppets, just like ours.

    Of course, were I Norwegian I would be burning up the phone lines with calls to said leaders right now, but I don't live there, so knock yourselves out.

    1. Re:Europe: Stop acting so damned superior. by /ASCII · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, we europeans are all alike. All europeans where Nazis during WWII, and you americans kicked all of our collective asses. Alone. The american way.

      The swedish minister of commerce referred to Norway as 'The last soviet state' last year. This was obviously not true, and a really stupid thing to say, but the point is that there is a large gap between the politics of different european countries.

      --
      Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
    2. Re:Europe: Stop acting so damned superior. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Well, our problem isn't the law, our problem is that there is a small number of people who doesn't get it, and the attorney who did this is one of them.

      She's an extremist, people are holding off on reporting computer crimes because of her, because they don't want to lend any legitimacy to her work. I certainly wouldn't report a l33t h4X0r breaking into my computer to the police.

      But that is not to say that we haven't got a lot of trouble, but that it is still possible to get through to some people and make an impact.

      There are a few clued people working for the government too, for example Norway's anti-spam law is a very good piece of work.

    3. Re:Europe: Stop acting so damned superior. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? In Europe it isn't illegal to play a video you've bought. Wasn't that the whole point of this story?

    4. Re:Europe: Stop acting so damned superior. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People are represented by a smaller amount of people in some kind of parliament. Those people write laws. The laws are interpreted by the court.

      They're just doing this to check _how_ the laws will be interpreted.

      This is the way this power-triangle or whatever it's called. If I had paid more attention in social science classes I could tell you the names of those three french guys creating this system. M* something :)

      Now, this system was under the french liberation, and if I remember correctly, the american liberation was based on the french.

  20. Here's why you're wrong by Sloppy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When you purchase a DVD, you are paying for the ability to play it on players approved by the people who made the disc.

    Nowhere on the packaging does it say this. There isn't any indication, prior to the sale, that the usage of the DVD is so unusually restricted.

    Just as when I purchase a book, I am not just paying for the ability to read it by the light of some particular manufacturer's lamp.

    When you buy something, you're paying for what you expect. Sometimes when you buy something, there is a detailed contract that actually spells it out explicitly. In the case of most "consumer" things, it is not explicitly spelled out, and it's just common sense.

    Also, keep in mind that when DIVX was still around, people who promoted DVDs said that one of the advantages of DVD over DIVX was that DVD was a real standard. Calling something a standard has huge implications about what you can do with it. Now that DIVX is dead, they're trying to take back what they said? Sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want the larger marketshare and competitive advantages that come with adhering to a standard, then you accept that your product will be used in a manner where it interoperates with other parties that you have no relationship with. You can't have standards and monopolies at the same time. It is too late for MPAA or DVDCCA or whoever it is, to redefine what the customer's expectations are. That would be fraud.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    1. Re:Here's why you're wrong by wo1verin3 · · Score: 1

      True, I can't remember being presented with a license agreement, and the FBI warning only comes up AFTER i've hacked it for 3 years to get it to play in my toast.

      Stupid toaster.

    2. Re:Here's why you're wrong by /ASCII · · Score: 1

      You've gotten your toaster to play DVDs? Cool. I've been experimenting with the same thing, but it just keeps melting the stupid discs! Any tips?

      --
      Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
    3. Re:Here's why you're wrong by wo1verin3 · · Score: 1

      ahhh...

      You need the heating component from Hitachi so it will fail. :)

    4. Re:Here's why you're wrong by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      Did you call Newtek tech support?

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    5. Re:Here's why you're wrong by mpe · · Score: 2

      When you buy something, you're paying for what you expect. Sometimes when you buy something, there is a detailed contract that actually spells it out explicitly. In the case of most "consumer" things, it is not explicitly spelled out, and it's just common sense.

      Even where these are specifically spelled out they can't rewrite regular statute and case law. Indeed the legal status of shrink/click-wrap contracts was unclear enough to prompt the invention of UCITA.

      Sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want the larger marketshare and competitive advantages that come with adhering to a standard, then you accept that your product will be used in a manner where it interoperates with other parties that you have no relationship with.

      There is also another way in which, especially proprietary software, trys to "have it's cake and eat it". That is by attempting to apply the kind of contract which would be applicable if the customer had specifically contracted the producer to make the product whilst at the same time selling the product like a tin of beans...

    6. Re:Here's why you're wrong by mikethegeek · · Score: 2

      "Even where these are specifically spelled out they can't rewrite regular statute and case law. Indeed the legal status of shrink/click-wrap contracts was unclear enough to prompt the invention of UCITA."

      The UCITA also hasn't been established as Constitutional. There is a chance that blind, shrinkwrap contracts will be found to be a violation of civil rights.

      --
      === The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
    7. Re:Here's why you're wrong by mpe · · Score: 2

      The UCITA also hasn't been established as Constitutional. There is a chance that blind, shrinkwrap contracts will be found to be a violation of civil rights.

      UCITA is interesting in that it is being pushed as state legislation. Even though the US has all sorts of strange federal laws passed through using the commerece clause to overrule the 10th ammendment.
      It's also hard to see how you can have a law which will legalise shrinkwrap contracts, which won't also legalise "envelope opening" contracts.

    8. Re:Here's why you're wrong by mikethegeek · · Score: 2

      "UCITA is interesting in that it is being pushed as state legislation. Even though the US has all sorts of strange federal laws passed through using the commerece clause to overrule the 10th ammendment.
      It's also hard to see how you can have a law which will legalise shrinkwrap contracts, which won't also legalise "envelope opening" contracts."

      A uniform multi-state law should be considered a federal law by the courts. It won't be, but I could see where the 10th Amendment can apply.

      --
      === The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
  21. Re:The root of the problem is Right Here(tm) by YouAreFatMan · · Score: 2
    "We are partially responsible for every Brian West [slashdot.org], Eric Corley [2600.com], Dmitri Skylarov, Ted Felten, Randal Schwartz, [slashdot.org], and DrinkOrDie member."

    I shall take that as a compliment. Thank you for your kind words.

    --
    Robotiq.com is heavily tested on animals
  22. Two Things by xonker · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One: is there a fund for Jon that we can contribute to?

    Two: I wonder if the MPAA or movie studios could be sued for false advertising? If you notice, all advertisements for DVDs like "Shrek" or whatever scream "own this DVD NOW!" Yet, the studios emphatically deny that customers actually own the DVD or the right to do anything with it other than play it on an officially sanctioned player. If you "own" the DVD doesn't that imply the right to play it in any way you want, or can do with it as you will? Obviously, you don't own the rights to the content, so re-distribution is out -- but I'd think ownership should require the right to decode the content for personal use.

    Class action suit, anyone?

    1. Re:Two Things by bstadil · · Score: 1

      "own this DVD NOW!"
      Interesting point,but I think they will argue that you do "own" the DVD as in the physical piece of glass you get, not the content embedded on it.

      --
      Help fight continental drift.
    2. Re:Two Things by xonker · · Score: 1

      Yes, they would, but... would a court agree with their argument, or the argument that a person should be able to do anything with that piece of plastic that doesn't violate copyright law? (I'm pretty sure it's not actually glass...) DMCA aside, I'm pretty sure fair use overshadows any objections the MPAA has to decoding the data for personal use -- whether that's playback or archival. I mean, the commercials heavily feature cuts from the movie, not a family prancing around tossing DVD back and forth. I believe it's strongly implied that by buying a DVD you get to watch the content and no restrictions on the viewing platform are mentioned in the commercials.

      At a bare minimum, I bet a really good lawyer could force the studios to refund the purchase price of DVDs already bought under that promise if not actually setting a precedent that explicitly allows decoding for personal use.

    3. Re:Two Things by cecil36 · · Score: 2, Informative

      You could send off a donation to the EFF. I'm not sure if the EFF will be able to set up a legal defense fund in Norway to assist DVD-Jon in his pending case. Regardless, the donation can always be used in case the MPAA and/or RIAA makes a bigger mess out of access control or copyright issues in the US.

    4. Re:Two Things by xonker · · Score: 1

      Thanks, done that already. I'm sure that the MPAA and RIAA will continue to attack our rights if they offer the appearance of conflicting with their profit motive...

      However, I also want to donate specifically to Jon -- he's going to need every cent, I'm sure.

    5. Re:Two Things by BobSutan · · Score: 1

      I've been wondering the same thing for quite some time now. Didn't their mammas ever tell them they can't have their cake and eat it too?

      In all honesty, I think a class action suit is only a matter of time. Its getting to the point now where people are saying enough is enough.

      --
      "On a scale from 1 to 10, people are stupid"
    6. Re:Two Things by cecil36 · · Score: 1

      Any Norweigan /.ers want to spearhead the defense fund? As polar_bear` said above, Jon is going to need every cent he can get.

    7. Re:Two Things by nordicfrost · · Score: 1

      Jon doesn't need a fund. This is Norway, he is free to chose whatever lawyer he wants and that lawyer will get his fee from the state. Of course, the more popular lawyers are busy with high-profile cases but this is one (high profile case) so he will get proper representation. Start a letter writing campaign to get Jon back to school or something.

    8. Re:Two Things by xonker · · Score: 1

      That's interesting, I did not know this. Is this the case for all participants in the Norweigan (sp?) legal system, or just defendants? I shudder to think what life would be like here if everyone had a right to a free lawyer in order to sue people...

      Does the legal system operate on the same adversarial principle as it does here, or...?

      Thanks for the information, I can actually say reading Slashdot was a learning experience today. :)

    9. Re:Two Things by a_n_d_e_r_s · · Score: 1

      All civilized countries have the strange idea that people accused of a crime should have legal representation in court.

      In some countries that are done by public defendant lawyers. In others one can select any lawyer one want, that wants to represent you on the standard fee the court will give the lawyer.

      Since he is accused of a crime he has the rights to a lawyer.

      This is a criminal case - you don't get a free lawyer if you want to sue someone.

      --
      Just saying it like it are.
    10. Re:Two Things by xonker · · Score: 1

      All civilized countries have the strange idea that people accused of a crime should have legal representation in court.

      Obviously the subtle nuances of the conversation were lost on you. The poster indicated that Jon can choose ANY lawyer, not just a court-appointed lawyer who probably isn't that experienced, and the state will pay for it. That's different from the system in the US, and I asked if there were other differences because I was genuinely interested.

      Instead of contributing valuable information, you chose to be a sarcastic asshole instead by repeating what everyone already knows and acting like I didn't understand the idea of right to representation.

      Jerk.

  23. Re:The root of the problem is Right Here(tm) by /ASCII · · Score: 1

    What you're saying is that the only way we are going to keep our rights is by shutting up, sitting down and silently hoping that if we don't make any noises, the government will reward us by not putting us in jail. Yeah, that sounds like a bright idea.

    The price of freedom is eternal vigilance?

    --
    Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
  24. Authorized? by friartux · · Score: 3, Interesting


    I suspect someone's going to have a field day talking about the word "authorized" in that law.

    Obviously access is authorized, otherwise no one could play the movie on *anything*.

    And who gets to "authorize" the access? Does Norway permit companies to write their own little bits of legislation defining "authorization"? And to "authorize" helping themselves to more money by creating more middleware (pay for the disc with the movie, pay for the decoder, pay for the displayer, pay for a chair to park your ass in while you watch it)? Is building your own furniture now illegal, too? :)

    Alternatively, are those who write versions of "login" equally culpable under this misbegotten law? After all, it permits access to systems and data, and might conceivably be misused to gain "unauthorized" access.

    Hopefully Afterposten will continue with English translations on this story...

    1. Re:Authorized? by st0rmshad0w · · Score: 1

      Worst case scenario as I see it is that the legal authorities conclude that the individual who purchases encrypted media (like DVD) does not actually have authorized access, only the officially licensed player does. And if something like that comes about, we're all basically screwed.

    2. Re: Authorized? by friartux · · Score: 1

      If that's the case, then, what is it exactly that you're paying for when you buy a movie on DVD? What, given any ads for the DVD, do you expect to be buying?

      And I'll have to send a note to the Norwegian goverment asking if I can write myself some nice Norwegian law to guarantee myself some extra income, while I'm at it :-) I think I'd like to produce chairs from which movies can be watched, and make some bucks not only from the chairs, but from those who wanted to use or build their own.

    3. Re:Authorized? by sqlrob · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Wouldn't that result in a ban of any DVD players that aren't licensed (are there any? The ones that come with the ability to play multiple zones probably fall under that). They couldn't sport the DVD symbol, but they can say DVD compatible.

    4. Re:Authorized? by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2
      (pay for the disc with the movie, pay for the decoder, pay for the displayer, pay for a chair to park your ass in while you watch it)?
      Actually, until about 25-35 years ago in France, whenever you went in a park and sat on a loose chair (loose chairs were provided in the parks and squares), a lady would come and collect a minimal fee from you... At least, you had a comfortable chair your could put wherever it suited you (shade/sun). Just as whenever you went in a public loo, you'd have to pay a pittance to the dame pipi that kept the premises spotless...
    5. Re:Authorized? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AFAIK, all DVD players currently made are licenced. The multi-zone ones just ignore some of the licencing provisions and hope they don't get caught.

      However, the real MPAA fear about DeCSS is not really home copying. It's that someone will use the code to make unlicenced players by the millions, thus depriving them of income.

  25. Jon Johansen's own words on DeCSS code by Seth+Finkelstein · · Score: 5, Informative
    As Jon Johansen put it himself in an old interview:

    http://www.linuxworld.com/linuxworld/lw-2000-01/lw -01-dvd-interview.html

    Jon Johansen: I'm 16 now, I was 15 when it happened ... and the encryption code wasn't in fact written by me, but written by the German member. There seems to be a bit of confusion about that part.

    LinuxWorld: The other two people that you had worked with to make the player are remaining anonymous -- is that right?

    Jon Johansen: Yes, that is correct.

    ...

    LinuxWorld: Do you know why they want to remain anonymous?

    Jon Johansen: They are both a lot older than me, and they are employed. So I guess they just didn't want the publicity, and they were perhaps afraid of getting fired.

    He's a wonderfully plain-spoken person. My other favorite Jon Johansen quote is from when he was responding to reporter Declan McCullagh, and Declan was arrogantly giving Jon a hard time for not immediate returning Declan's request for comment:

    Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 21:26:23 +0100
    From: Jon Johansen (Micro Media ADB)
    Subject: [Livid-dev] Wired article on legal threats

    I assume you've read a great deal of articles on the subject? If you have, you might have noticed that I'm only 15 years old; which means I go to school. Norway is GMT+01. You should be able to figure out the time difference, and when I would be available for comment :)

    Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project (censorware.org)
    1. Re:Jon Johansen's own words on DeCSS code by deathcubek · · Score: 1

      He's a wonderfully plain-spoken person. My other favorite Jon Johansen quote is from when he was responding to reporter Declan McCullagh, and Declan was arrogantly giving Jon a hard time for not immediate returning Declan's request for comment:

      Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 21:26:23 +0100
      From: Jon Johansen (Micro Media ADB)
      Subject: [Livid-dev] Wired article on legal threats

      I assume you've read a great deal of articles on the subject? If you have, you might have noticed that I'm only 15 years old; which means I go to school. Norway is GMT+01. You should be able to figure out the time difference, and when I would be available for comment :)


      Yeah, and I think at least everyone on the LiViD list knows what kind of person Declan is. Highly amusing that his first article on DeCSS was just about calling for the head Jon, and yet he was at the protest outside the 2600 court case in NYC.

      --

      New worlds are not born in the vacuum of abstract
      ideas, but in the fight for daily bread
      --Rudolf Rocke
  26. That damn media... by Uttles · · Score: 1

    You're right, it is false advertising. Unfortunately, the media doesn't really give a rat's ass about false advertising, and it's virtually impossible to punish them for it.

    --

    ~ now you know
  27. Not only that... by schon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But what about the ", and cause damage by gaining or using such unwarrented knowledge" bit? It's not illegal to break in, it's illegal to break in and cause damage.

    Not only that, but unwarranted knowledge is the kicker - it says that you can't break in to something you don't have the rights to

    Since you've already purchased the DVD, you have the rights to view it.

    The previous posts about this being applied to TV descramblers makes sense - you don't have the right to view the scambled signal, because you haven't subscribed.. but since you can already legally view (you have "warranted knowledge") the disc, the whole thing goes out the window.

  28. Americans: Stop acting so damn superior by el_nino · · Score: 1

    Since you damn (North, South, what's the difference?) Americans in Argentina can't keep your economy functioning, all of you (no matter if you live in Argentina or the US or wherever) should stop acting so superior and blah blah blah.

    Repeat after me: Europe is not one country.

    Of course, the EU will probably create it's own EU-wide DMCA soon bought to you by the usual suspects, but that's neither here nor there.

    1. Re:Americans: Stop acting so damn superior by supabeast! · · Score: 2, Troll

      "Repeat after me: Europe is not one country.

      Of course, the EU will probably create it's own EU-wide DMCA soon bought to you by the usual suspects, but that's neither here nor there."

      Europe is not one country yet. Europe does not have its own continent-wide DMCA yet. The point I was trying to make is that if Europeans do not start paying some more attention to the awful shit their own leaders do, you are all eventually going to end up living in states that are just as corporatized as the US has become, and many of you don't have nearly as many constitutionally guaranteed rights to things like freedom of religion, speech, and assembly that the US does.

      I am warning the Europeans: letting Johansen be indicted like this is a very, very bad thing. It starts in Norway, it will spread out across Europe and eventually your human rights will be given away to protect the profits of multinational corporations, all in the name of protecting IP rights of corporations that cooperate to scam artists out of the rights to content they created in the first place.

      I say all this because over and over again I see Europeans on the internet complaining about American companies being behind all of this, and commenting about the US government as some far reaching arm of corporate power. But I rarely see Europeans complaining about their own leaders being coerced into working against them for these corporations, most of which operate in far too many countries to really be considered American (And many of the companies involved, like Sony or Virgin were never American in the first place.). Right now you all have a very good chance make some noise and get your leaders in line. Don't blow it.

    2. Re:Americans: Stop acting so damn superior by bob_dinosaur · · Score: 1

      There's enough law in the UK at the moment to make something like DeCSS quite legal. The notion of an 'unfair' contract is enshrined in (most, possibly all) European countries. You can't limit my statutory rights to an item - and fair use is a statutory right.

    3. Re:Americans: Stop acting so damn superior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "many of you don't have nearly as many constitutionally guaranteed rights to things like freedom of religion, speech, and assembly that the US does." What the hell do you mean? Europe isn't taliban!! In fact you have the right to make copys of DVD's and CD's and such for personal use in Norway by law.

  29. Re:The the problem is in "The Man's" yard(tm) by evilpaul13 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Some website vandals and system crackers lack of moral backbone has little bearing on Law Enforcement toying with people's lives. "Two years, to investigate existing evidence and you don't really know whether a suspect broke the law, which you don't actually even understand, so charge him and let the courts figure it out?" (The jist of the story) Sorry, but that is irresponsible bullshit. It's like charging someone with murder without a victim.

    Slashdot is not encouraging illegal behavior, The US Federal Gov't is making illegal laws.

    The simple fact of the matter is, that the Fed lacks the authority to further several corporation's interests at the expense of inalienable rights of its citizens. The DMCA violates the Free Expression, First Sale Doctrine, and Fair Use rights of the American people. None of those are rights granted by the law, they are simply given legal recognition.

    If the First Amendment was repealed tomorrow, Americans wouldn't lose their right to free expression, their right to free expression would simply lose legal recognition. The Right to Free Speech was never given by the Federal Government, and isn't the Federal Government's to take away.

    All that making DeCSS illegal does is make it so you can't legally watch a DVD on any software or hardware that the creator of didn't pay a $100,000 minimum license fee to the MPAA.

    To **COPY** and **PIRATE** a DVD, you just duplicate it bit-by-bit. You **DO NOT** use DeCSS to decrypt it first, or it will not even work on many DVD players.

    Now, would you please explain what evil behavior the Slashdot community is tolerating here? If I go into DVD-World and buy six movies where does the MPAA get the right to tell me what I can watch them on?

    Civil liberties aren't priviledges that are granted and taken away from bad little boys and bad little girls a the whim of big brother. They are your beating heart in your chest, ripped, still beating, from it by murderous tyrants.

  30. Showing up in court... + MPAA influence by DagSverre · · Score: 2, Informative

    People showed up in the court when Skylarov was charged.

    Should the norwegians able to do so show up (say, with large banners with the DeCSS source code and the proper buttons and slogans) when the case is tried? Would it be a wise thing to do? And anyone with me?

    It also looks like (from NettAvisen) that the authorities are mostly after trying out the hacker paragraph and not necisarrily get him convicted...

    Lastly, I don't think it's been mentioned yet that MPAA is responsible for this...they hired the lawyer that convinced the authorities into charging him (according to www.itavisen.no).

    - Dag Sverre, Bø i Telemark

  31. Ho hum. by jd · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Let's start with some basic maths:


    Insanity x Insanity = Insanity. This proves that insanity is the identity element.


    Having got that out the way, let's look at that quote from the lawyer a bit closer. "You buy the rights to watch the movie, not to copy it."


    Pardon me for not being able to directly teleport the digital signal off the DVD, descramble it in my brain, and view it without the aid of any mechanical device. For, surely, should you require a mechanical device to view the DVD, then you must have two copies at the time of viewing. One on the DVD, and one generated by the device used for viewing.


    Conclusion: To have the right to view a DVD IS to have a limited right to copy the DVD, as many times as you like, so long as the copies are transient, and exist only for the duration of viewing the DVD. (If you want to be absolutely merciless, you could argue that they can only exist for the duration of viewing a frame. But the duration WILL be non-zero, no matter how short you require it to be.)


    So long as DeCSS does not, in and of itself, produce permanent or semi-permanent copies, but rather produces a stream of transient images, then it is not a copying device. It is a viewing device. To produce a copy, you must produce a means of creating a more permanent rendering.


    This reminds me of a "hacking" case in England, back in the 1980's. Someone broke into Prince Philip's private e-mail account. He was accused of counterfeiting the "key", as I recall, as there was no law specifically against computer cracking at the time. The prosecution argued that typing in a password constituted posessing and using a pick-lock, which was illegal.


    The defence argued that the password never actually resided on the alleged system cracker's computer, and therefore posession never occured. (Yes, they accepted, the password was -temporarily- there, but that an instantaneous existance did not qualify as residing.) If there was no posession, then the alleged cracker could not be guilty of the exact crime as charged. They then argued that the courts were there to judge the offence, as stated, not to decide the morality of the defendent.


    Again, as I recall, the defence won, and a whole slew of new laws were rapidly drawin up, in an attempt to fix the mess. (The "Computer Misuse Act" dates from around this time, along with the "Data Protection Act".)


    The same logic would seem to apply to Jon Johansen's case. The courts aren't there to decide if DeCSS is moral or immoral. They are there to decide if it constitutes, in this case, unauthorized access to, or unauthorized use of a computer, through the process of unauthorized duplication.


    The parallels seem clear to me. DeCSS doesn't posess any copies, for the same reason. Each block of data exists instantaneously, and therefore actual posession does not occur. If no copy exists, in a legal sense, then no duplication has occured. If there is no duplication, then there is no unauthorized use - at least, in terms of what is charged. It is irrelevent, for any legal purposes, whether the use was authorized or not for anything other than what is charged. The charge is the sole concern. (At least in theory.)


    Once you go down this path, you can see that the case almost has to collapse, if Jon can get a decent lawyer. Whatever your personal belief, with regards to DeCSS, whether you believe it is right, wrong or indifferent, your beliefs really are irrelevent to what the courts decide. The judge has one decision to make, and one alone: Does the law fit the facts? Yes or no. No twisting, no modifying, no reading between the lines, no adding stuff. If the answer is no, and I can't see how it could be anything else, then Jon Johannsen is innocent of the charge.


    (Personally, I think he's innocent, without qualifiers, that DeCSS is a perfectly legitamate piece of software, and that lobby groups in the US are abusing their power to manipulate overseas authorities. I also think that those lobby groups should be brought to justice for such abuses of power. However, that's another matter altogether, as that's not the matter before the Norwegian courts. Although, I suspect that if such abuses were mentioned and proved by the defence, the judge would be unlikely to be sympathetic to the plaintif. Judges don't usually like being pawns. Especially in public.)

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:Ho hum. by /ASCII · · Score: 1

      Interesting post. But you should keep in mind that the british legal system is very different from anything else in the world. This sort of abstract reasoning is often used in GB, most other countries have laws and stick to them.

      --
      Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
    2. Re:Ho hum. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The correct term is idempotent. Know your rings.

  32. Same old lie... by Cyberdyne · · Score: 2, Interesting
    ...the protection system Content Scrambling System (CSS), that protects the content of DVD-disks from copying.

    Does it hell! Will someone please explain to these reporters that encryption has no effect on copying whatsoever?

    An encrypted block of data is exactly as easy to copy as the plaintext it was made from. All the CSS encryption system does is force those wanting to play a DVD to agree to a license from the DVD CCA (the licensing outfit controlling the encryption keys). Ultimately, I think this is what the MPAA and co want: control. Bit by bit, they build up their control; Macrovision, no skipping the FBI warning, region coding - maybe next you won't be able to skip the trailers, either? Then some sort of pay-per-view version (DiVX tried, but was too early - then. Will it return in another guise?)

    1. Re:Same old lie... by KjetilK · · Score: 1

      Will someone please explain to these reporters that encryption has no effect on copying whatsoever?

      We have... Some gets it, some don't.

      --
      Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
  33. Don't know much Norwegian but... by alsta · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here goes my attempt at a translation, might not be very accurate mind you...:

    Economic Police has decided to seek indictment against Jon Johansen for breaking the Computer/Data Crime Law. Johansen has been indicted for breaking the copy protection on DVD-discs. The indictment is no surprise, says Jon Bing.

    For two years, the Economic Police has investigated the case gainst the young man[?]. Johansen is a member of a computer group which developed the computer program DeCSS. The program can be used to copy the contents of DVD-discs.

    American picture associations cite that Johansen has been part of a breach of copyright law. Economic Police has sought indictment against the 18 year old man[?] for breach against the Crime Law's[?] paragraph 145.2. jfr3.ledd. [?]

    Circumventing protection
    - We have indicted Johansen for having circumvented the copy protection on DVD-discs. He has willfully cracked the protective measures. When you buy a DVD-disc, you buy the right to play it, not copy it, attorney Inger Marie Sunde said.

    In January, two years ago, the police took action and searched the room of Johansen. Among other things they seized large portions of his computer equipment and the 18-year old's mobile telephone.

    The computer community has displayed creat concern that the, then, 16-year old became the target of the Economic Police. This lead to lots of collections of funds for a possible litigation on behalf of the boy. Attorney Cato Schiotz became involved as Johansens defender, but the case was taken over by Terje Svendsen with Schiotz law firm.

    - We would like to have gotten the investigation to end sooner, but it has taken lots of time now. There has been lots of data that needs analyzing and we have used that time with consideration to our resources, says Sunde.

    Natural to try the DVD case
    - It isn't a surprise that there is an indictment against Johansen under the Crime Law[?] paragraph 145. We thought we had a clear case with that law, but the High Court has created doubts. Thus it isn't strange that Economic Police wants to try the matter. It is not said that they want a conviction of Johansen, says a Law Professor, Jon Bing.

    - So Johansen is used as a legal precedent?

    - No, not like that. But it is an unclear situation and we want to be sure to get a resolution to it. The DVD case is a good case to try like that. It is not clear if what he has done is against the law, but I think it is proper to indict, says Bing to Nettavisen.

    Economic Police has not sought indictment against John Johansen for breaching the Descructive[??] Law and it was expected from several parties, said Bing, unsurprisedly.

    - No, I understand that well. If you open the door to a book store, you haven't distributed the books, said the law professor.

    In the Law text which laid ground for the idnictment it says "He who knows to break a protective device or by similar means knowingly obtains access to data or program equipment, stored or electronically transferred, or by other technical means. Causes damage by authoring[?] or use of similar knowledge, or breach by personal gains, can be imprisoned for up to 2 years. Accomplices are punished by similar means."

    Long wait
    Svendsen has previously said that the investigation has been a burden for the young man who was barely 16 years old when he became the suspect for the Economic Police.

    District Attorney Inger marie Sunde has for the past two years spoken to the press that the matter will soon reach conclusion. But no sooner than Thursday, Jan 10, almost two years to the day after Johansen was arrested, the Economic Police made public that they will seek indictment against him.

    The Criminal Law that Johansen is indicted under, has previously been tried twice in the Norwegian Justice System. That time it was about descrambling TV-channels from cable TV. The High Court concluded that time that the law could not be used to punish unlawful access to TV and radio signals.

    Economic Police says that because of the fact that one can't tell different types of data apart and this is because the law can be used to convict Johansen.

    - Data is data, Sunde said.

    The District Attorney says to Nettavisen that the indictment now is ready to be submitted to the court. That means the case against Jon Johansen probably will be tried during this year.

    --
    Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. -Ayn Rand
    1. Re:Don't know much Norwegian but... by Joey7F · · Score: 1

      Out of curiosity, how do you know what you do? I am an american student that is interested in Learning Norwegian. My very limited vocabulary would not have been able to throughly translate, but I wasn't too far off :-)

      --Joey

    2. Re:Don't know much Norwegian but... by alsta · · Score: 2

      I don't know Norwegian very well at all. Lots of stuff in that article that I couldn't figure out what it meant. I spent lots of time in Sweden and the language is similar to Norwegian.

      --
      Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. -Ayn Rand
  34. Previous HighCourt Ruling favorable by bstadil · · Score: 2

    In the published article by NetAvisen it is stated that this law has previously been tried by the Norwegian Suprem Court on descrambling Cable signals.
    The court found that this law could not be used for punishing that act, so I think that the court will find in favor of Johanneson and give us a clear victory.
    I can see little difference between scrabled TVsignals and encrypted Video, both used for same purpose. The encryption is not for any Privacy issue only for restricting useage.

    --
    Help fight continental drift.
  35. Re:I'm not a troll... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In answer to your question, I'd like to see a lot more technology / science / programming news. If I wanted current affairs I'd go to news.bbc.co.uk>

  36. Re:The root of the problem is Right Here(tm) by Sloppy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    We need to lead by example - log off of Gnutella, start paying for software (even Windows), stop cracking your DVDs and eBooks "for fun," and start acting like an upstanding citizen.

    (Damn, this troll pushes just the right buttons.) Fighting usage restrictions (CSS, eBook protection, etc) is not in the same moral domain as pirating stuff with Gnutella/Napster/etc!

    It is only through a hideously twisted set of values (and laws), that wanting to play/read/quotefrom a DVD or eBook, is somehow akin to empathizing with criminals. You're right that we're producing criminals, but the way we're producing criminals is that we're passing legislation that makes morally upstanding acts become illegal.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  37. And the key word is *unjustly* - which it isn't. by Kjella · · Score: 2

    (Norwegian, IANAL) This law is intended to be used against a third party that manages to get information he should not - by breaking encryption, by trojans, by social engineering or any other means. But in this case the data is legally purchased when buying the DVD, with no licence restrictions. It does not provide access to any other data than those you already have access to by playing the disc normally, as you would have to be in possession of the DVD disk to use it. That these data are now without a copyright protection scheme is irrelevant, as we have no DMCA, only actual copyright infringement is illegal. I think it'll be shot down in flames.

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  38. ya know... by pcgamez · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Its all about how DeCSS is being used. There ARE many legitamate people using it for legit reasons. For instance, I own a copy of both the VHS and DVD versions of The Matrix. Why do I not have a right to have a copy of my PC?

    YES, I understand it is not legal, but that is not the issue. What is law and what is moral is always in a struggle.

    1. Re:ya know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What is law and what is moral is always in a struggle.

      ... usually when money is involved.

  39. More translations and other fun opinions :-) by snillfisk · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The vg.no article earlier mentioned has a quote from one of the people working in the norwegian cs community;

    "DVD-Jon won his case in the USA, so its kind of strange that they're starting this here in Norway now. It may be because they want to `put him out there` to scare other people off."


    In another article at dagbladet.no there's a quote from "Økokrim" (which is handling the prosecution).


    "We want a conviction / judgement"


    which may indicate what someone else hinted; that they want a clearification of the law. To quote the indictment (if i got that one right. :); he being prosecuted:

    "for breaking a protection or in other ways unauthorized gaining access to data / information stored or transmitted with electronic or other technical means and for having caused damage by acquisition or by use of such unwarranted knowledge."


    I'd think to get an conviction in this case, they'll have to prove the fact that he produced (as he said it himself) the GUI for the program - and that this in fact has caused a loss for the movie-industry.

    There's a also a quote in the same article from "Jon Bing", which is one of the better known sci-fi writers (well, we really dont have that many) and computer-philosophers in Norway, where he's wondering if they really have anything to convict Jon by. We'll see.

    As others also has pointed out, the norwegian "Økokrim" has had several examples of bad judgement the last week, especially the part of making anonymous email illegal, since they discovered that childpr0nrings has been using this as an method. [irony] I'd also suggest making photographic film illegal, since this is what makes it possible. In addition i'd render all sorts of digital cameras unlawful .. and you'd probably get 10-15 years in prison for owning a handycam or DV-cam.[/irony]

    Hopefully they'll come to common sense and "discover" that he's not guilty. At least not according to the law he's being charged with.
    --
    mats
    One man's ceiling is another man's floor.
    1. Re:More translations and other fun opinions :-) by Jhan · · Score: 1

      Wow, a real live norsk person on Slashdot!

      I, by virtue of being Swedish :-), made my way through most of the original text, but there are some things my mind just can't parse...

      Could you, or an equivalent Norweigian spare a few moments to puzzle out the following terms:

      • prøveklut - precedent, right?
      • Åndsverkloven - the Work-of-Evil act?! THE WORK-OF-EVIL act??? You have a computer law that's called the WORK-OF-EVIL act?! Jesus on a pogo stick!
      • erverv - Sounds vaguely like a moped motor "erververververver..."?
      --

      I choose to remain celibate, like my father and his father before him.

    2. Re:More translations and other fun opinions :-) by snillfisk · · Score: 1

      I'd have to say that i like your translations, hopefully i'll not destroy too much here:

      "prøveklut" - precedent .. yeah .. something that you "try" your theory on.

      "Åndsverkloven" - simply the legal rights of copyright. "Åndsverk" may be explained by "something created by a person / company" .. like music, art, programs and alike.

      "erverv" - while you probably could 'erver' a moped (i'd go brumbrombrombrombromvroooooooooom), it would mean "getting hold of" or more correctly, "acquisition".

      --
      mats
      One man's ceiling is another man's floor.
  40. Well, duh.. by Curly · · Score: 2, Funny

    When someone in Norway is indicted he probably is named Jon Johansen...

  41. Re:Jajajajaaaa!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eres 150 mensajes pasados, estúpido.

  42. Re:Jajajajaaaa!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Te mando este archivo para que me des tu punto de vista
    Espero me puedas ayudar con el archivo que te mando
    Espero te guste este archivo que te mando
    Este es el archivo con la información que me pediste

  43. Doesn't the DMCA kill that argument? by renehollan · · Score: 2
    More devil's advocacy from me:

    Yes, of course you may do with the DVD what you wish, short of violating copyright, under pre-DMCA law.

    However, the DMCA forbids trafficing in a tool to circumvent access control mechanisms used to protect copyright. Thus, it is difficult, if not illegal, to obtain the tool to let you excersize your fair use and explicit interoperability rights.

    The problem is clearly that the tool necessary to excercize your rights is the same tool that can be used to violate the copyright holder's rights (even as this can be done without the tool), and because of this "danger" access to the tool is restricted.

    Consider the following analogy (which may not hold in some parts of the world, particularly the U.S.): you have a right to defend yourself, but there is a prohibition against posession of firearms (gotta love that second amemdment). There may be circumstances where shooting someone is the only available self-defense option. Yet, firearms are restricted, even as they have legitimate, and legal uses: the dangers supposedly outweigh the benefits.

    Of course, I think such laws are insane, and I have intentionally used code like libdvdcss.so to enable me to watch DVDs that I purchased under GNU/Linux. The firearm case is more controversial, of course, because it deals with life and not just money (though you'd think that Valenti, Rosen, et. al. have those priorities reversed).

    The way I see it, under present law (ObWarning: I am not a lawyer), is that you may view that DVD any damn way you wish, but it might be illegal for others to provide you with the means to do so if you can't do it yourself. This is absurd.

    --
    You could've hired me.
    1. Re:Doesn't the DMCA kill that argument? by Ngwenya · · Score: 1

      In other words, you have the (legal) right to view the content, but not the power to do so

      The granting of rights without the power to exercise them is the starting point for cheating the people out of everything that they might have thought they struggled for

      From a historical point of view, the DMCA is not the worst act to flow from a supine Congress too concerned with grovelling to corporate paymasters, but it certainly looks like one of the worst stinkers in current democratic polities.

      Not - I hasten to add - that I believe that the European powers will be long in kow-towing to the media corporates (mentioning no Murdochs).

      --Ng

  44. Please think yourself... by Mr.+Fred+Smoothie · · Score: 4, Insightful
    While it shouldn't be inherently illegal to decode and copy discs for legitimate purposes, that's not how DeCSS is being used, the majority of the time. It sucks, but it's true.
    Boy you're right.

    Also, look how guns are being used:
    http://www.police.nashville.org/news/media/1998/no vember/111298.htm
    http://www.co.ramsey.mn.us/attorney/pr_thao.html
    http://www.dallasnews.com/metro/arlington/arlingto n_news/STORY.ea7fa58a63.b0.af.0.a4.33ca3.html
    http://woub.org/news/Stories/2001/January/010109-0 4.html
    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/43950_murder24 .shtml

    <sarcasm>Looks like it's time to go after those gun manufacturers. After all, their products are clearly being used to break the law with disastrous results for society.</sarcasm>

    In our society, people are supposed to be held responsible for their *own* misdeeds, NOT the potential misdeeds of others. That was the heart of the Betamax decision, and it seems like the same standard should be applied here. DeCSS is not required for copying, and can be used for significant non-infringing purposes. PERIOD!

    --

    1. Re:Please think yourself... by monkeydo · · Score: 2
      DeCSS is not required for copying, and can be used for significant non-infringing purposes. PERIOD!

      If that were true than using DeCSS would be OK and the MPAA wouldn't have a leg to stand on. But they do. The fact is that DeCSS doesn't have substancial no infringing uses. In fact, I can't think of a single non-infringing use that _requires_ DeCSS. If you can think of any please enlighten me.

      Keep in mind that the "Fair Use" right exalted here on /. doesn't protect the activities DeCSS is being used for. Playing a DVD under Linux is not a non-infringing use unless the Copyright holder tells you so. When you buy a DVD you have a license to play back that DVD on a licensed DVD player. PERIOD! You do not have a license to back it up, copy it to your harddrive, trade it on usenet, make a copy in a different format, play it in public, or play it on your computer witout a licensed player. None of these activities are protected by fair-use, first-purchase, or any other doctrine of US copyright law.

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    2. Re:Please think yourself... by arkanes · · Score: 2
      This is the core of the argument. Myself, and many reasonable people believe that your are very wrong, but then, we don't have huge teams of very skilled lawyers to convince people of our point of view.
      For what it's worth, it has NEVER been legally upheld that there is ANY sort of license on a DVD. Saying that there is one is total bullshit. The argument against DeCSS is that it's primary use is circumvention. This was mainly pushed through with FUD and by smearing the defense.

      Playing a DVD on Linux is 100% non-infringing - the MPAA has no authority to tell you otherwise, and this is not disputed. The problem is that the tool you need to do so (DeCSS) is being painted as a device primarily used for infringment, and thus falls under the DMCA.

    3. Re:Please think yourself... by monkeydo · · Score: 2
      This is the core of the argument. Myself, and many reasonable people believe that your are very wrong, but then, we don't have huge teams of very skilled lawyers to convince people of our point of view.

      It doesn't take lawyers to convice the public. Lawyers convince judges and juries. I personally have never spoke to or read any statements from any lawyers on either side of the issue, and yet I disagree with you. You certainly don't need lawyers to convince those of us on Slashdot who disagree, you just need a rational argument.

      For what it's worth, it has NEVER been legally upheld that there is ANY sort of license on a DVD. Saying that there is one is total bullshit.

      You do not own the copyright on the work contained on the DVD. Without a some limited license (explicit or implied) you can't really do much at all with it. Assuming you legally obtained the copy it can be implied that you have a certain license to view and make Fair-Use of the material, but you certainly can't copy it in any way. If you don't have any license whatsoever, it makes your argument weaker, not stronger.

      Playing a DVD on Linux is 100% non-infringing

      Only the copyright holder can make that decision. A judge may someday decide that playing a DVD on Linux falls under one of the exceptions (like Fair-Use) but until that happens what grounds do you have for such a statement?

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    4. Re:Please think yourself... by Mr.+Fred+Smoothie · · Score: 2
      You do not own the copyright on the work contained on the DVD. Without a some limited license (explicit or implied) you can't really do much at all with it.
      Exactly! Without the implied consent of the copyright owner the disc is completely useless. Therefore, most reasonable people would conclude that in the absence of an explicit licensing agreement, I am free to put the content to it's naive use (viewing) on whatever type of device I choose. Under copyright law, as long as I'm not re-publishing the content, I have not violated the rights of the copyright holder.

      The only sticky situation here is that the DMCA makes distribution of the tool I need to view it in certain ways illegal (since that tool could also be used to make unecrypted copies and then republish them -- which would, of course, be a violation of copyright). The only way that issue is likely to get resolved is if the law is repealed or if the Supreme Court rules on it, and if they are to be consistent with the precedent they set in the Betamax case, I can't see how they could rule that the non-infringing uses (me viewing content I'm authorized to in any way I want since I signed no contract to the contrary) don't outweigh the threat posed by the possible uses for infringing purposes.

      --

    5. Re:Please think yourself... by arkanes · · Score: 2

      The implied license is clearly spelled out in US copyright law and in the US consitution and is exclusive, not inclusive - that is, it spells out what you cannot do, not what you can. There's nothing in there about controlling method of access once the transaction is completed. Playing on a linux box is not distribution! Copyright is NOT total control! These are important legal truths that have been largely subverted in the public mind.

    6. Re:Please think yourself... by mikethegeek · · Score: 2

      " For what it's worth, it has NEVER been legally upheld that there is ANY sort of license on a DVD. Saying that there is one is total bullshit. The argument against DeCSS is that it's primary use is circumvention. This was mainly pushed through with FUD and by smearing the defense."

      This also comes from only ONE single case (the 2600 case), by one district judge (the lowest on the food chain), who was clearly biased (his previous lawfirm worked for Time Warner), the evidence is in his own demonstrable prejustice towards the defence.

      He also made the narrowest, most EXTREME interpretation of the DMCA, favoring clauses that favored the MPAA case, and ignoring ones that would seem to permit DeCSS's use in making a Linux DVD player...

      IMO, in the long run, so-called "judge" Kaplan's ruling will be the death blow to the DMCA. By demonstrating the EVIL of the law in full force in the first test, he gave those who oppose it a POWERFUL argument...

      --
      === The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
    7. Re:Please think yourself... by monkeydo · · Score: 2
      Exactly! Without the implied consent of the copyright owner the disc is completely useless. Therefore, most reasonable people would conclude that in the absence of an explicit licensing agreement, I am free to put the content to it's naive use (viewing) on whatever type of device I choose.

      I think that most reasonable people would conclude that if they were giving you a license to view the DVD on whatever type of device you chose they wouldn't use a technology that prevents that exact behavior!

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    8. Re:Please think yourself... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, but the technology is implemented supposedly to stop digital copies which are easier to distribute. Anything else and the manufacturers have a lot of ugly questions to face.

      Anyway as a home user, I don't recall signing any explicit licensing agreements. I'm only bound by the law, which says that copying is illegal except for fair use (which covers changing the format and playing it back on any device I want). Now the DMCA does make it impossible to do that legally since it requires breaking some form of encryption... but fortunately the government hasn't been thick enough to enact any such laws here (yet).

      I'm not sure where the boundaries of licensing and collusion start or end, but deliberately preventing you from playing the discs on some legal devices (RCE) or tying the discs in too closely with the players would be getting them into dangerous territory under trade laws, and they're already in some trouble over fair use issues, and region coding concerns in a number of countries where consumers are getting ripped off on the features & number of releases, and the governments aren't sponsored by the industry.

    9. Re:Please think yourself... by Mr.+Fred+Smoothie · · Score: 2
      I think that most reasonable people would conclude that if they were giving you a license...
      THERE IS NO LICENSE without a contract! It's a sale! If the only notice on the product is a ©, then I can do what I want (subject to copyright law).
      --

    10. Re:Please think yourself... by Gaute74 · · Score: 1

      >You do not have a license to back it up, copy it >to your harddrive.

      Sorry but Norwegian law states that you do.

      You are allowed to back up music movies etc. for OWN use (to save the original) You can only use one copy at the time. But if you sell or give this copy to anyone else without destroying your own copy you break the law.
      http://www.torvund.net/artikler/art-opphav.html ( Norwegian - see section 7.4)

      And also by Norwegian law any part of a contract / license that contradicts Norwegian law is invalid and can be ignored. (at least it is like this in a lot of other instances. i.e. if a contract says you only have 1 month warranty instead of 1 year as stated by Norwegian law)

  45. Re:The root of the problem is Right Here(tm) by davet · · Score: 1

    If you can't tell the difference between acts done to anothers computer without authorization and those done on computers you own, with resources you've purchased, I'd suggest that you're the one lacking a moral compass.

    I think Ken Thompson understands this difference, even if you don't.

    "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom -- go from us in peace. ... Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
    -- Samuel Adams

  46. Buy the right to copy? by st0rmshad0w · · Score: 5, Informative

    I find this remark very curious:

    "When you buy the disc, you buy the rights to play the movie, not to copy it"

    Curious because its technically correct, I'm not paying them a dime for the right to copy it, its already a right that I have. Its called "Fair Use".

  47. write your laws carefully by markj02 · · Score: 2
    The law was clearly intended to apply to breaking into computers, not cryptanalysis of published information. But, as worded, cryptanalysis might well fall within the scope of the law.

    Still, the "having unjustly gained access to data" clause will probably save him--it seems a stretch to argue that cryptanalysis of a legally purchased medium whose decrypted contents are also available constitutes "unjustly gaining access".

  48. Most people don't know this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    When you buy a ticket at a movie theatre, that ticket serves *only* as a receipt, allowing your admittance into the theatre. From there, you may see any number of movie(s) you desire and they cannot do a thing to stop you.

  49. Correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IAAL and this is true.

  50. MOD THIS UP! by renehollan · · Score: 2
    Hear, hear!

    As one who has made a public decision to use whatever tools I can so I can listen to, watch, archive, and distribute (within my own home, for my own purposes) audio and video in the form of CDs and DVDs for which I have paid dearly, even as I may be breaking some inane law in the process, I applaud you.

    I do not believe what I am doing is wrong, and therefore do it openly and publicly. While I probably wouldn't redistribute a turnkey system that would significanly ease others' attempts to violate copyright law, I'd have no qualms in eventually describing what I did and how to anyone who wants to reproduce my efforts for their personal convenience.

    In my case, the stakes are rather higher than for most: I am a Canadian in the U.S. legally on an H1-B visa, with a green-card petition pending. I can be deported for breaking the law. I am supposed to be a law-abiding person. And, against the ultimate law of the land, the U.S. Constitution, I believe that I am. In fact, it is my respect and admiration for the principles in that document and the Bill of Rights that compel me to object to what I perceive as unconstitutional laws, and to disobey them in a civil manner. I believe H. Thoreau had a lot to say about that.

    I've seen what happened when Canadians took their rights for granted, and didn't defend them: we have a "notwithstanding" clause in our constitution, added c. 1982 that effectively lets the government trump the courts. This has been used to prevent public communication and commerce in languages other than French in Quebec (ironic, since it was a separatist Quebec government that used that law to their benefit), among other things.

    Americans are in grave danger of losing the liberties they value above life itself (if Patrick Henry is to be taken as an example of a patriot) to a combination of rapacious fictional corporate citizens and corrupt government. It would be a sad day indeed, if the principle of liberty set forth by such a great nation was to be snuffed out by it's own hand.

    --
    You could've hired me.
    1. Re:MOD THIS UP! by SkepTech · · Score: 0

      Americans are in grave danger of losing the liberties they value above life itself

      Yeah, yeah.

      One of the liberties I value above life itself is my ability to play DVD movies on a Linux box.

      Uh-huh.

      Don't even get started about slippery slopes. How many movies have you acted in or produced?

  51. Re:MPAA's Logic of CSS - there's a fix for this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's called filing a RICO suit. RIAA and MPAA's latest overt and covert actions qualify as racketeering as well as being the actions of a cartel (Yet another violation of different laws...).

    As it stands, they've overstepped their collective bounds so obviously that there's more than rumblings in Congress about compulsory licensing terms, revocation of Copyright and Patent rights because of antitrust misuse, etc. No, I'm not naive enough to think that this will continue without making Congress know that this is the thing they should be doing- but it's a start in the right direction

  52. DeCSS vs Speed Ripper by letoram · · Score: 1

    Except for the previously mentioned fact that Jan didn't have anything to do with the reverse engineering of the crypto & applications (the early rippers used unprotected keys stored inside a commercial player making it more of a crack), DeCSS wasn't the first application to do this.

    A fairly "unknown" group previously known as Drink Or Die (RIP) released their "Speed Ripper" a few weeks before DeCSS but received much less media attention in comparison (certain other events changed that)

    Related link:
    The Truth

  53. MOD PARENT UP... by renehollan · · Score: 1

    is what I meant, of course.

    --
    You could've hired me.
  54. BOFH by The+BOFH+Troll · · Score: 0, Funny

    Thursday. Pay Day. I love Pay Days. In fact, work is always better on a pay day. People are nicer, complaints are rarer, bank managers are friendlier - a guy could get used to this.

    A bastard, however, could lose the touch - that finely honed reflex that enables him (or her) to sort the wheat from the chaff (user-wise). Complacency is the enemy.

    Still, the brown envelope containing a cheque is a useful reminder of what we do this for. Smiling happily, I fumble with the self-adhesive seal on the envelope (the glue must be the same stuff they use to hold tiles onto the space shuttle), before losing my patience and ripping the envelope open from the other end.

    Ahhh!, The smell of a freshly printed cheque...the feel of it as it slips out of the protective environment of brown paper. The temporary but overpowering feeling of goodwill for all things beancountery as I note the aesthetically pleasing sight of my company's name laserprinted on the top line, right above the amount of...WHAT THE HELL!?

    THE THIEVING BEANCOUNTER BASTARDS HAVE UNDERPAID ME!

    I have another look, just to make sure I've got it right. "The beancounters have underpaid me!"

    "You're joking!?"

    "I'm not! Look, they've rounded down the amount!"

    "By how much?"

    "27p!"

    "Hang on, you're going to maim someone - possibly permanently - over 27p?"

    "It's not that it's 27p, it's the principle of the thing. STEALING from me! It's unheard of! It's the thin end of the wedge - before you know it, they'll be riding the lifts again. They'll be questioning your expense claims, talking to you about business plans at lunchtime, and..."

    About 10 minutes later I come to, with a rather nasty bruise on my head and a pain in my side.

    "Sorry about that," the PFY calls from behind the door of the computer room, waving one of our low-output (aka 'warning') cattle prods.

    He must have zapped me while I was under the influence of theft-crisis. "That's OK," I respond, "perfectly acceptable under the circumstances."

    I go to let myself into the computer room to assure him there are no hard feelings, only to find my access card's been given 'lock-out' status.

    "Sorry about that, too, but you know what you get like," the PFY calls through the safety glass.

    "Of course!" I cry "No harm done," as I sneakily reach for my special reserve access card, noted in the database as a 'Fire and Civil Emergency' access card, which no one but me knows exi...

    "Got that one, too..." the PFY murmurs apologetically.

    You've got to give him credit, he's a chip off the old block.

    I move away from the door to see if he's going to come out when he thinks it's safe, but he's not that stupid, either.

    Desperate times call for desperate measures. I set my rubbish bin on fire, then reverse the direction of the office ('remodelled') air-conditioner so that it's blowing air into the computer room instead of stealing air from it.

    The halon 10-second warning goes off and the PFY rushes to the hold-off switch - the real one (disguised as an intercom pager button) - and not the decoy we use to frighten contractors.

    I have him right where I want him. While the smoke detectors still sense smoke the halon system is still activated. While he holds the button down, the halon countdown is paused. Currently at seven seconds...

    I hold the rubbish bin up to the viewing window and throw in some more paper and a back-up tape (to keep it nice and smoky) so the PFY can see I'm serious.

    Out of earshot, he scribbles a quick note on the wall. "You could be right, 27p is an insult!"

    Smiling, I pour coffee into the bin to extinguish the flames, then sit down at my desk. The PFY emerges from the computer room once the halon clear has been signalled.

    "So, what are we going to do?" he asks.

    "Well, I thought some form of example has to be made. Firm - but not, of course, brutal."

    "You mean chilli sauce in the eye-rinse bottle, laxative in the water fountain or glue on the bog seats?"

    "Well..."

    "All three?"

    "Warmer..."

    "'Route their traffic via the 3-Phase mains 'network'?"

    "Almost there..."

    "Put indelible dye in the rooftop water reservoir and trigger the sprinkler system on their floor?"

    "Yes...to all of the above."

    And so it was that half-an-hour later, the PFY's up a ladder, pouring a crimson cement dye concentrate into the reservoir, when...BDZZZT!!

    To his credit, the PFY makes no sound as the cattle prod takes effect. Apart from the splash of course.

    After I've fished him out, I disable his card, the halon system and the card known to the database as 'Installation Card (Disabled)'.

    What goes around comes around.

    --

    - The BOFH Troll

  55. Re:I'm not a troll... by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

    I agree with you choices of topics, except programming, since I'm not a programmer. It seems that good science stories have dried up recently.

    --
    Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
  56. Another English News Story by thelaw · · Score: 3, Informative

    securityfocus has another english-language story on this, which can be found at http://www.securityfocus.com/news/306.

    jon

    --
    -- http://www.cerastes.org
  57. The UK has similar stupid new laws by wackybrit · · Score: 1

    Thanks to September 11th, the first ever incidents of 'terrorism', the UK has some stupid new laws in place.

    One of these allows anyone 'suspected' of 'possible terrorist acts' to be jailed 'indefinitely'. The words 'suspected', 'possible' and 'indefinitely' are scary indeed.

    And what could be a 'possible act of terrorism'? Yep. Cracking codes or computers or... security systems!

    So it's not just Norway and the US with stupid laws that could throw border-line legal people into jail, it's the UK too.

    1. Re:The UK has similar stupid new laws by SkepTech · · Score: 0

      Guess what?

      I think I'll not crack codes or computers or... security systems.

      Wow, that was hard.

    2. Re:The UK has similar stupid new laws by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You miss the point.

      There are a massive number of legitimate/semi-legitimate reasons for why you might crack systems or, rather, why what you do may be -construed- as 'cracking' even when it's not. Jon's case is one of those.

      Heck, sending an e-mail to Microsoft telling them of a security hole in their software counts too.. want to get banged up for that?

  58. Dagbladet Story (Leading Oslo Paper) by olafva · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You may be interested in today's Dagbladet Story:

    http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2002/01/10/30549 1. html

    Helps in translating words & phrases are at:

    http://www.freedict.com/onldict/nor.html

    http://dictionaries.travlang.com/

    http://home.online.no/~otjoerge/files/word.htm#G

    --
    What's past is NOT ALWAYS prologue for the future!
  59. The Gun Law Parallel (important info below rant) by Jeppe+Salvesen · · Score: 2

    I know this is superficial and sensationalist in comparison to your , but let's consider gun laws for a second (I love to find inconsistencies).

    A gun in itself is by American standards not a bad thing at all - unless the person posessing it is a bad person. Even then, he will have to commit a crime before any reaction occurs.

    DeCSS can be used to view DVDs on linux - a perfectly resonable use. Even if we are only allowed to view the movie, but that is in the contract we effectively signed when we bought the damn disk. So, DeCSS can be used in a legal way.

    How, then can you hold Jon Johansen responsible for the misuse of his (and the anonymous ppl behind him) work? The gun manufacturers are not put to prison when someone is shot. No weapons engineer working for the government is held responsible unless the weapons are faulty and kilsl the wrong ppl. Then they get fired.

    Many of same people running after the DeCSS crowd with torches and handcuffs are the ones defending liberal gun laws. What does that make those people? Oh. Yeah. "Hipocrites".

    Sad part is, they've got the law on their side.

    So, "justice for all"?

    Oh - and I know Jon Johansen is Norwegian. I am too. He's being charged by the same paragraph the suits used to try to stop illegal satelite descramblers. That didn't work. This probably won't work, either. Most Norwegian legal experts seem to agree that the Government case is extremely weak.

    Makes you wonder who pressured them into pursuing a case they are doomed to lose.

    --

    Stop the brainwash

  60. Actually we sort of already do... by Mashiki · · Score: 1

    It's something like 2-3% for every recordable media that we buy from the store. I thinks /. rand a story on it not too long ago. Might have been somewhere else.

    --
    Damn my cursed memory!
    --

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
    1. Re:Actually we sort of already do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, someone pointing out that if the discs now have copyright controls on them, then they can't be copied, so goodbye recordable media taxes?

    2. Re:Actually we sort of already do... by f00zbll · · Score: 2

      Right we already pay taxes on it as the previous threads mentioned. I don't mind 2-3% tax as long as the actual CD isn't freaking encrypted, preventing me from ripping it and putting it on my file server:)

  61. You forgot the death penalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The death penalty is a major reason why nations don't have extradition treaties with america.

    Hell, Britain wouldn't even give you Osama bin Laden if they stumbled upon him.

  62. Re:The the problem is in "The Man's" yard(tm) by lamont116 · · Score: 1
    "Two years, to investigate existing evidence and you don't really know whether a suspect broke the law, which you don't actually even understand, so charge him and let the courts figure it out?" (The jist of the story) Sorry, but that is irresponsible bullshit. It's like charging someone with murder without a victim.

    Bad analogy. It should be obvious that most (or all) criminal statutes have "gray areas" in which it is unclear whether the statute applies to a particular set of facts, There is a huge body of case law (at least in common law countries, e.g., U.S., U.K.) deciding such issues even for ostensibly straightforward statutes (e.g., rape or murder laws).

    It appears that in this instance the prosecutor feels that she has a good faith argument that the statute should apply, but obviously she doesn't know, since this situation has not been tested before. She certainly has a right to bring a test case if she can make a good faith argument for liability.

    The simple fact of the matter is, that the Fed lacks the authority to further several corporation's interests at the expense of inalienable rights of its citizens. The DMCA violates the Free Expression, First Sale Doctrine, and Fair Use rights of the American people.

    You can believe this all you want, but you should be reluctant to rely on it until a court (preferably an appellate court) has agreed with your position. That requires a test case. (Traditionally in the U.S., a "liberal" group such as the ACLU creates the test case by persuading some people to violate a questionable law and then representing them in the courts. However, "liberal" groups don't own a monopoly on the practice).

  63. Where does it say what I can do!? by X.25 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've taken a DVD from the drawer. It's "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within", 2 DVDs. Original copy, of course.

    I am looking at the cover, and I can not see ANY mention of what I am allowed to do with the disc, or what I am not allowed to do with it, except notion that it can not be "reproduced, distributed or exibited".

    What the hell are all these people talking about, when they say "you purchase right to view, blah, blah..."!? I don't see ANYWHERE mention of anything even remotely related to that.

    btw: "Reproduction" would mean creating identical copy of a disc (medium). Why then decoding DVD content to hard disk is considered as 'reproduction'? :)

  64. New way to distribute DeCSS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Theorem: Any infinite random bytestream contains decss.c
    This is my first try. More coming soon!
    f2 82 ba fb e1 35 f2 b2 ce b9 19 29 fd 9a b4 93
    33 27 ee 3d ab f6 6a 52 e8 63 c6 a2 4c 42 e9 92
    36 82 9d 4e d7 d0 24 fe 65 9d c5 1c 6d 59 46 1a
    13 7e 98 d7 b9 64 1a 93 1f 0e b2 f2 07 12 66 4c
    f9 dc 15 6b 6b 07 54 9d 2d eb 26 14 61 d1 95 76
    59 8c f8 a6 8a 25 05 94 de b1 54 b5 7e c7 0e 8a
    3b 58 7c ee 2b 22 2a 47 64 f8 1d d2 0d 57 d1 ef
    dc 41 be 31 57 c9 7a 4d 5c 2c 46 3d 9e 46 df 96
    59 33 89 78 6a 66 fb 8e 45 24 a3 a3 33 7a cb 5c
    db 3e 9d e7 30 60 05 ee e3 b7 3e 3a b7 ed 9f 10
    4a d2 a9 52 aa 81 05 5a 48 77 c5 48 4e e2 e7 06
    23 ef 78 34 4f b2 f7 e0 ae 82 f6 8c e2 46 76 bf
    14 47 a8 5f 2b d4 fa aa 8c 1c 42 60 13 96 12 ae
    36 cc e0 d7 fe 24 10 09 c7 e4 e0 a3 a2 58 63 7b
    1c 2b ea 00 61 68 88 43 6e 5f 0d 13 cb 84 3a 00
    f4 85 de 99 c0 27 fc 4c 5c ea 5a 28 4c 07 d6 e7
    6c a5 8b 32 0d e2 94 48 13 9d a6 60 01 19 26 6b
    3c 83 1c a3 ed 3a 31 5a 88 51 46 fe 00 71 8b c2
    c0 b9 f4 12 3e b4 b4 cc ce d3 14 c2 f0 b2 dc 9f
    01 85 7b fa 5b 81 d9 f7 3a 2d 73 4f 9c 0f 60 4a
    33 08 76 8f 6d 8a 32 b3 4d f1 48 3b cb 92 a8 91
    3f 70 2b ef 8f dc ba 6f 3a 46 b5 6d e9 b3 9d 5c
    8c d2 f8 9d ec 5c 68 9f e0 2b 25 8b 93 0d 1a c4
    44 38 ef 11 24 b1 81 b3 2a bc 1b 58 55 ed 52 7c
    85 98 b0 36 8f 69 d5 b7 91 73 89 a2 02 e4 fe e7
    eb 3a d6 92 db 53 57 b3 96 dc 7f 5f d9 08 79 3d
    bd 31 61 a2 b0 2e 01 42 51 b4 7e 43 45 92 a2 9b
    0e a4 cc 89 79 b9 86 34 a4 35 86 eb 2e e6 3b 28
    ce 41 a0 68 cc 37 75 18 54 98 69 86 57 8c 4a 5e
    d7 08 ea ef 9a 04 17 06 7b ca bc bb c6 d9 14 24
    9a 42 a3 d6 cf 2b 72 8d 7f 42 c4 29 e5 de 3b c5
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    c8 a2 c4 01 10 a8 ca 6b b4 bf 09 d3 02 15 89

  65. Re:I'm not a troll... by jlanng · · Score: 1

    Ho hum. At least there are always New Scientist and Nature to satisfy our urges

  66. I love this line by einhverfr · · Score: 2

    "That includes earlier charges that he contributed towards making a program, DeCSS, that made it possible to play DVD films under the operating system Linux."

    Hmmm... So playing DVD's on Linux must be illegal? (It must be, because if you COULD buy commercial software, it would still be possible to write filters into the OS or Kernel that would enable you to write the stream to disk.)

    In essence, one could look at ANY DVD playing software for an open source platform as a potential circumvention device. Especially if it is running on ANY open source layers including XFree86 or even the Linux kernel.

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  67. Bad luck -- no DeCSS in the first try. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's try again!

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  68. OFF TOPIC J�r�me Choquette by issachar · · Score: 2
    okay, if you can only win points by deliberately disguising what you're talking about, then you don't have much of a case.

    How many Canadians have heard of Jérôme Choquette? On the other hand, how many Canadians have heard of the FLQ crisis? If you're going to talk about the FLQ crisis, you should at least be up front and honest about it.

    As for your claim that martial law was invoked simply to scare political opponents, anyone with the intellectual prowess of a severely brain-damaged sloth can tell you that there were a lot more reasons than that. For a basic chronology of the FLQ crisis you can go to http://www2.marianopolis.edu/quebechistory/chronos /october.htm or you can do your own search in google.

    --
    . --- If you're looking for free e-mail you won't find it here! http://www.noemailhere.com
  69. Re:The Gun Law Parallel (important info below rant by jd · · Score: 3, Funny
    So, "justice for all"?


    Nope, can't have that. It would infringe a Metallica copyright.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  70. Re:The Gun Law Parallel (important info below rant by jfunk · · Score: 2

    Interestingly enough, these situations are exactly what that song is all about.

    Read the lyrics here. It can certainly be said more eloquently, but the point is clear from the very beginning: "Halls of Justice Painted Green / Money Talking..."

  71. Your math is wrong, but I don't really care by absurd_spork · · Score: 1
    Insanity x Insanity = Insanity. This proves that insanity is the identity element.

    No, it doesn't, since insanity might also be the zero element. Not that it's that important.

    1. Re:Your math is wrong, but I don't really care by muonman · · Score: 1

      I hate to have to tell you this, but zero *is* the identity element for sets under addition

      --
      Anything NOT worth doing is NOT worth doing well...
    2. Re:Your math is wrong, but I don't really care by t14m4t · · Score: 1

      true, but the original poster was multiplying.

      of course, insanity + insanity is also insanity.

      insanity could also be infinity for both of these cases; I am not sure whether infinifty is ever an identity.

      ok, i'm getting too dorky for me to continue.....

      weylin

      --
      67.5% Slashdot Pure I guess I need to work on that.... :)
  72. Remember Folks: by t_allardyce · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Breaking stupid laws that restrict your rights and are created by evil corporate pigs' bribery is OK, just don't, what ever you do, give them your name, or go to america :)

    --
    This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
  73. True, except for one point by drew_kime · · Score: 2

    I can install any software or operating system I want.

    Really? Try to get a "legal" copy of Windows 95.

    --
    Nope, no sig
  74. Why cant the jornalists get it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apparently they just doesent get it. In all the major papers and television channels in norway, they say that CSS is a copy protection for DVD movies.

    I figure that if enough people tell them that it is not, they will eventually change theyr mind..
    Here the e-mail adresses to most of the major media companys in norway:
    1000tipset@dagbladet.no
    webmaster@vg.no
    vaktsjef@ntb.no
    nyhetstips@p4.no
    info@nrk.no
    webredaktor@tv2.no

  75. msnbc now has an article up by klparrot · · Score: 1

    MSNBC now has an article up, for those of you looking for more news about this story (should be immune to the /. effect too).

  76. English translation of the paragraph used by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    145. 1)He who without cause opens a letter or other closed communication, or in similar ways gets access to the content, or forces his way into another persons locked places (hard to translate this bit, as the word has no english counterpart. Caveat emptor), is punished by fines or jail up to six months.

    2)The same applies to he who by breaking a protection or in similar ways unjustified appropriates access to data or program equipment that is stored or which is transferred by electronic or other technical means.

    3)If harm is caused by possession or use by such unjustified knowledge, or if the offence is commited with the intent to gain someone unjust gain, jail up to 2 years can be used.

    4)Aid is punished in the same way.
    Public prosecution is only to be used when public interest demands it.

    All the usual caveats apply. In addition, the norwegian is hard to translate because norwegian legislators are fond of long sentences without commas, which often introduces ambiguities.

    Inge Marie Sunde has a track record as something of a pro-control freak in Norway. Last week, she wanted to ban anonymous email. The reasons cited by newspapers were the need to locate people sending anonymous threats by email, with an afterthough mentioning terrorism and pedophilia.

    That said, Jon Johansen is a dork. He has done something that is punishable by norwegian law. If they throw the book at him as hard as possible, he might get 2 years.

    Don't come whining about unjust control of DVD players. If you don't like how the technology is sold, don't buy it!

    1. Re:English translation of the paragraph used by Gaute74 · · Score: 1

      The tricky bit here is that Jon claims he only made the GUI.

      That means he himself did not violate any of the paragrafs here. Exept maybe part 4 (Aid), but even that is out on a ledge here. Hi didn't aid in the process of making DeCSS he only made it easier to use......

      And still there is the point of interoperability, that could make the above paragraf invalid. ( there's a lot of conflicting laws in this area, and I think that's why they have taken so long to make a decission on wheter or not to proceed.)

      Basicly the "construction" of DeCSS could be illegal but not nesecarily the use of it, as you are allowed to make your own backups of any media you purchase. That's why they don't use the copyright laws in this case.

      It's going to be interesting to see how this develops.

  77. Re: he didnt even write it, thats the funny part.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Man the world is dumb...

    it was two russians and germans that wrote it, via the Xing Player that was ripped and rehashed to make it look like it was 'cracked'

    Jon is inocent.

  78. Re:The the problem is in "The Man's" yard(tm) by ZarkDav · · Score: 1
    To **COPY** and **PIRATE** a DVD, you just duplicate it bit-by-bit. You **DO NOT** use DeCSS to decrypt it first, or it will not even work on many DVD players.

    I suspect the MPAA and other proponents of CSS have not been pushing laws and technical protection schemes only to protect the content of DVD to be copied by industrial means. CSS was never intended to protect the studios from plain pirates (who have been copying vynils, tapes, VHS, CDs "bit-for-bit" since the creation of these media). The studios know everything about them, you can rest assured that they know CSS is not a solution to industrial piracy.

    CSS was designed not to protect the studios from tens or hundreds of industrial pirates making thousands of copies. CSS was designed to protect them against millions of consumers broadcasting any digital media.

    I assume they tried to foresee what could happen to their products in the future. They guessed that, maybe five years from now, every consumer could have an uncontrolled device with enough bandwidth and processing power to read Mpeg2 and AC-3 bitstreams over the net. They also believe that these very same consumers will have enough bandwidth to redistribute (echo) these bitstreams to tens of their friends (and I'm not even taking Usenet or P2P into account).

    The nightmare of the studios is that the copyright could disapear, simply because the copy will disapear. In the future, you won't need to get a physical copy of some digital content to be able to watch or hear it. Everything will be broadcast, thus transient.

    It makes sense then, to try and protect the ways the content of a DVD can be read. The CSS gives them the power to control which device (a DVD player, a HDTV, a cable decoder) can read a given bitstream and when and where in the world (by way of regioning) can one play a piece of digital content. This looks to them as a way to solve the possible future nightmare.

    Yes, the studios are greedily buying their survival from corrupted democracies and anyone can guess that the next step will preclude us to produce our own content and broadcast it to our friends without their blessing, but frankly there is nothing illogical in this behavior.

    The alternative (not protecting bitstreams DVDs from redistribution) would put Mickey Mouse royalties at stake.

  79. Media and lies by hkmwbz · · Score: 2, Interesting
    "Me, I think Jon is a talentless semi-cracker that bragged about his efforts (He said first that he did the cracking, but later said the code was from a German guy and he only did the GUI and decrypting."

    Is that really the case? Do you have anything to back up this claim?

    As someone pointed out, LinuxWorld had an interview in February 2000 (I believe), where Jon was quoted as saying:

    "the encryption code wasn't in fact written by me, but written by the German member"

    Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten also reports that:

    "In hacker circles Johansen has come under criticism for taking the credit for the codebreaking, but Johansen himself says he has been misquoted by the media."

    I personally find it easy to believe that the media would misquote him, as they misquote everyone else. When they can write big headlines, they don't worry about twisting facts, and a Norwegian kid doing something like this - now that was something they couldn't resist!

    I personally will refrain from judging anyone (heh). If you can give me conclusive evidence that Jon did in fact have the nerve to take all the credit himself, I'll be happy to concede defeat.

    --
    Clever signature text goes here.
  80. Re:The Gun Law Parallel (important info below rant by DagSverre · · Score: 1

    I can't believe this...METALLICA wrote a song about abusing the justice system? I have a hard time finding words...

    "hipocrites" and "idiots" partly cover it though.

  81. Standard anti-gun lies... by BattyMan · · Score: 1

    So why should I pay any attention to that?

    If you won't look at any of _my_ data, just because it's been gathered by the NRA (from _independant_, and sometimes even overtly hostile sources), why should I bother with anti-gun propaganda published by a leftist publicity agency (BBC) of a socalist government (UK)?

    It cuts both ways.

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    Exceeding the recommended torque is not recommended.
  82. I don't let that go by unchallenged by BattyMan · · Score: 1

    I could claim that Americans use guns to protect their homes, but most often guns are used to kill people.

    Which claim are you making? It sounds like you accept the media's lies about the matter, when the most scientific data available (Gary Kleck among plenty of others) indicates that the use of firearms for defense of life and home _overwhelms_ the use of firearms for crime.

    Is this because we always hear about it when somebody is murdered, but rarely hear about it when somebody repels a burgler by threatening with a gun?

    Bingo! The leftist media in America is quick to bury a story about someone thwarting a muggung or a home invasion with their gun, but a kid bringing a firearm to High School is Front Page News and Lead Story at 6PM for multiple days, _then_ we have to listen to the whole Colmmbine thing all over again!

    A homeowner running off a burgler with a handgun _maybe_ gets 4 lines on page thirty-nine and is thereafter forgotten (assuming he lives in an area where his ownership of this gun is "permitted", and can even report the incident. In NYC, this could NOT get reported!), but the kid who took a .22 to school and shot his ex-girlfriend will be Front Page(tm) forever.

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    Exceeding the recommended torque is not recommended.
  83. Re:The Gun Law Parallel (important info below rant by jfunk · · Score: 2

    Did you read what Lars was saying? He only wanted his rights. He didn't want his property taken away and controlled by people who are not him.

    Isn't that what we want, too?

    Just because Lars was bad at conveying it and became a poster boy for the RIAA, who had totally different motives, doesn't necessarily mean that he was wrong.

    Everybody assumed that he was against downloadable music, but that was not the case. He just wanted to have the freedom to choose what is done with his property. There's nothing wrong with giving away the music, as long as it's the musician making the decision.

    Of course, I say this as a musician who has allowed music to be downloaded through p2p. It's my choice, not yours. Also, I am in no way a Metallica fan.

  84. Re:And the key word is *unjustly* - which it isn't by arbofnot · · Score: 1

    Devil's advocate.

    You could make an argument that:

    a) With ownership of a DVD video, you have the right to access the video signal, but not the unencrypted digital data. (DMCA prohibits circumvention of an access control mechanism.)

    b) Only the licensed DVD player has the right to decrypt the digital data. (Copyright holder has granted the consumer electronics company the right to build a device that can read and decrypt the data.)

    c) Therefore, to gain access to the video signal for private home viewing, you must rely on the licensed player to decrypt the data and to change it to a video signal you can watch.

    Without the encryption, and without the decryption being punishable under the DMCA or similar legislation, this argument would not work. So the MPAA and DVDCCA were very sneaky in making sure that one has to break anti-decryption laws in order to exercise fair use rights.

    I don't think CSS has much to do with copying, but everything to do with access control. And then the law kicked in (in the USA) to make it illegal to gain access to content, even when you legitimately purchased media that holds the content.

    I wonder how our rights are different for use of data on unencrypted DVDs, or unencrypted blocks on encrypted DVDs.

    Related to the article more directly: Under the Norwegian law in question, it sounds like I could be prosecuted for accidentally typing "rm *log" rather than "rm *.log", if the company did not grant me the right to delete access_log. (And never mind that we will pull it from last night's backup -- they still lose a few hours of entries, and therefore I would have caused some harm.)

  85. Sufficient NON-INFRINGING applications! by TheConfusedOne · · Score: 1

    Well, I guess we can't go around touting the DMCA or the AHRA on this one since it's not in the US. *HOWEVER* the basis of most items in the AHRA and other tests is to see if a technology has sufficient NON-INFRINGING uses. It seems that De-CSS is a poster child for this. The person wants to view the DVD. There is *NO LEGAL BASIS* to require that a DVD is viewed on an "approved device". Anyways, the DVD drive in the computer is an approved device (it's got that logo-thingy on it) so that makes it a tough argument.

    You do have to give the RIAA lawyer credit for being willing to wade through a whole bunch of laws to find one that could be sufficiently warped to meet their needs.

    Anyone at the EFF willing to organize an AHRA lawsuit against DVD manufacturers?

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    --- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
  86. outlaw video cameras, microphones and tv's too! by su-geek · · Score: 1

    One thing I find humorous is that most of the movies that are on the net for download, were made from a video camera in a theatre.

    No matter how much effort is put into protecting consumer media it will always be a failure. If they copy protect all of the cds that I buy I could always just play it on a approved cd player and set up a microphone. What they do with software or hardware can always be done with the same technology.

    Copy protect my vinyl bitch. Mmm analog fucking kicks ass.

    peace,
    adam

  87. Inger Marie Sunde by ByteForce · · Score: 1

    Lol, i called this shithead (Inger Marie Sunde) and asked her if she really ment what she said about removing Anonymous email, she just hung up...
    Her phone number : (+47) 67590450

  88. BBC just changed their story by PhilHibbs · · Score: 2

    I emailed BBC Online, and got them to change the story title from "DVD 'pirate' faces charges", and corrected the bit where they said that Jon Johanssen wrote the software. Now they mention that he is a member of MoRE, who wrote the software.