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KaZaa Suspends Downloads
chill writes: "'Download Temporarily Suspended -- Download of the KaZaA Media Desktop software is temporarily and voluntarily suspended pending Dutch court decision on January 31. We apologise for the inconvenience. Please check back at www.kazaa.com for more information.'
--- Both the Linux and Windows client downloads are offline. I wonder what the judge thinks this will do to the tens, if not hundreds of thousands who already have the software?"
Oh! When I read your message the first time it got +4 Karma points. Now it has 0. Here's the current breakdown:
;-)
Offtopic=6, Troll=1, Insightful=4, Interesting=3, Informative=2
Okay, who else will mod this post? It's one of the most modded posts I've ever saw.
Anyway, there are SIX off topic mods, and one ridiculous troll. Troll? That was a high intelligent post. Not one dirty word. It didn't attack anyone else than the moderators themselfs, who seem to get upset when the hard earned karma is discussed and challenge with well formed point of views.
Yes, it's hard to earn karma (for most of 99% people here), and I now see an overreacted protection of this 'work'. That's how some mods see what they do, "I keep the community stronger".
Which complements my second issue with the moderations on this post so far, SIX off topic. Well, yes, it is off topic. But MORE than that, it's insightful. When will the poster have the chance to present this opinion? I have never seen slashdot talking about itself, only when a new slashcode version is released, which is a large period of time for something like this to wait.
MORE than off topic, this post is insightful and interesting. That's how things should get modded, the impact the opinions have. Yes, I have seen, this community protect their interests so highly that I feel strange some of us are advocates of Open Source.
Aren't we 'supposed' to contribute with each other? And isn't healthy discussions about opposing point of views that improve a lot of stuff? It's rare to see someone saying good things about Microsoft. I have seen posts doing so, none got modded up.
Why not?
I feel like *I* am getting slashdotted. Some of the recent talks I had with my friends were about copyright! I have never talked about it so strongly with them.
And the whole community is getting slashdotted. I thought it was better to accept the casual insightful, but off topic, post.
Guess what? The community is only narrowing their opinions with this kind of attitude.
Well, I am ready to lost my hard earned karma, but just as a final note, this topic should be a future article on Slashdot (and please don't let Katz write it!
Buy a Nintendo DS Lite
What is a waste of moderation points is having to moderate this kind of posts. About 10 to 20 percent of the M2 i'm doing is having to rate "offtopic" and "redundant" M1 as fair. The current topic here is not the /. moderating system but something completely different. The links you said were "clever" and "funny" might have been "clever" and "funny" in you eyes, but they were certainly not on-topic. I visit /. to read articles and interesting replies. I don't need to hear stories about ghosts and how Microsoft (that's the correct way to spell it btw) will lose it's market share in the future when I'm reading interesting posts on space exploration or a new handheld.
/. didn't start off as big as it is now and the M1/M2 system was introduced to keep up with the enormous increase in postings.
Just one other thing, the poll you refer to, it has 1600 votes. Nowadays polls have about 16000 votes. I was wondering from when that poll originates as, as you probably know,
(Btw, can someone tell me why the layout of this article is in blue instead of the usual green? the rest of the website is functioning just fine)
"We live in our minds, and existance is the attempt to bring that life into physical reality" Ayn Rand
Which doesn't prevent it from being a troll.
The giveaway is the comparison between /.'s moderation system and government oppression of dissidents. He compared moderators (who express their opinion) to Nazis (who killed people by the millions). That's either trolling, or so dumb as to be indistinguishable.
Godwin's Law as applied to /. would make a "troll", "flamebait", or "clueless" moderation appropriate. Too bad the last doesn't exist.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Let me suggest that you re-post this in a slashback where people have less of a dedication to being "on-topic". Also, perhaps there should be a thread once a month about Slashdot itself.
Anything that has 34 mods (at the time of this post) has earned respect enough for anyone to read, for the controversy generated by the moderators alone. If thirty people can't agree on whether it's a good, relevant post or not, it's probably a good, relevant post.
This is the sort of post your journal is designed for. After you drop in a journal entry, change your ".sig file". And before anyone asks, the only reason I don't do this myself is that I'm still working on entry #1.
Please, I want to read discussions related to the story they're posted under. Don't tell me about Slashdot's moderators when the parent story is about Oracle's faulty advertizements.
Do you like Japanese imports?
It is blue because it is in the developers section.
Logged in people are also modded up faster than anonymous cowards. Presumably all this means is that more moderators read non-AC posts.
parent: Moderation Totals: Offtopic=12, Troll=1, Redundant=2, Insightful=4, Interesting=9, Informative=5, Overrated=1, Total=34. (just to keep statistics. When i wtached it was at +5, now it is at 0. hey mod him up again.
And i hope some moderator spend his precious point to mod ME down. Why doesnt taco post a topic on moderation?
There are several things wrong with this current system:
-Moderation wars. (like happened to this parent)
-Moderators who mod something down where there was much more interresting stuff to mod up.
-Early post get modded. (up OR down.) late posts get seldom a moderation point. Moderators are just lazy that is something that is not reflected in metamoderation.
-There is very little documentation how the moderation actually works. This leads to conspicay theorys. (They say: read the source, but how the system is tuned is not readable there.)
repeat after me: karma is just a number. (bye bye karma). (hint for moderators: THIS is certainly offtopic!)
Rock on, home chicken!!! W00t! Preach it like there ain't no tomorrow!
BLING BLING! Yo gotz da skillz do pay da billz! AWWWW YEAH.
He never said "Nazis." The fact of the matter is that dissenters in matters of techno-politics often do get modded down (or up, some moderators are also techno-political dissenters) for the political content of their posts, without regard to the post's logic, originality, innate interest or quality of thought. The parallel he saw to oppressive government (not Nazis) does not invoke Godwin's law -- particularly since his post was the initiation of the thread.
Besides, with all regards to Godwin. his "law" is full of shit -- it is too often invoked by Nazis who don't wish their nazism discussed.
National CyberCrime Prevention Foundation
Oh yes, dumbfuck. Go on nitpicking.
/. gang care about Oracle and it's security issues...
Anyway, the lenght of this - completely offtopic - thread shows how much the
So your stupid addition is actually ok. It would be better to get a life, though.
National CyberCrime Prevention Foundation
Another thing I could do is make my entire post a link to my journal page by forgetting to put in a tag.
.sig of a user with negative karma? You'd have to be extremely keen on gay porn or a total /. newbie
Exactly how many times do people actually follow links in the
No security through obscurity: my password is goatse. Stop me before I troll again.
Furthermore, when modding a post up, every moderator seems to follow previous moderators in their choices, even when it's not a particularly interesting or clever post [slashdot.org]. There are a LOT more +5 posts than +3 or +4.
One reason that this happens is that many moderators probably read at a threshold of 3 or so.
Also, for those at 50 karma, it is "safer" to moderate up a posting that others have already moderated up, rather than risking your standing in the 50-karma club on an "unproven" post.
I like slashdot... it moves quickly, but theres plenty of insight and humor, even among the trolls. This proves it. It's sad tho, to see points used up in this little war. Points are just points after all, and anyone who wants to can read unrated and raw, can do so.
my prediction on your final score... +2
parent present:
Moderation Totals: Offtopic=18, Troll=1, Redundant=2, Insightful=7, Interesting=14, Informative=6, Overrated=2, Total=50.
Holy crap! WWIII has erupted.
You missed the "random moderators". Whenever I get moderator points, I open the first story on the front page and randomly moderate 5 posts. And then watch everyone complain that I am *on crack*.
OSS Girlzzz Unite!
Digging deep into the history of slashdot, I found this poll [slashdot.org], which clearly indicates the vast majority does NOT want the moderation we have here today.
:o)
Been contradicting yourself much lately? Interesting use of 'deep into the history' and 'today' in one sentense.
I'll sacrifice my precious Karma to point that out.
Parent: Moderation Totals: Offtopic=19, Troll=1, Redundant=2, Insightful=7, Interesting=15, Informative=6, Overrated=2, Total=52.
If your intention was to stir up a hornet's nest, I think you succeeded.
And I also think you hit the nail on the head....
G'head, mod me down. G'head. I got a life outside karma....
Moderation Totals: Offtopic=19, Troll=1, Redundant=2, Insightful=7, Interesting=15, Informative=6, Overrated=2, Total=52.
OSS Girlzzz Unite!
Another reason is that +5 actually means "3 or more" people willing to mod up exist. (Assuming it was posted by a logged in user with good karma so it starts at +2).
Why are mods limited to +5?
Why can you only moderate a few messages under an article?
Here is an idea. I am not sure if you have a valid point or not but you are definetly off topic. If you have something that is important, go create a discussion topic so you have a place to talk about it?
That way you won't have to worry about the offtopic moderations to your post.
You can't grep a dead tree.
your logic for why web polls are bad doesn't hold in this case. don't mind the all lowercase, my shift key is broken. the main argument against web polls is that they aren't a random sample of the target population, but in this case it is. a good counterpoint is, though, that some people may be more inclined to vote than others, so that could skew votes one way or the other, and usually those who vote will have axes to grind.
so in short, i have changed my mind by the end of my post and now agree with you.
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
Interesting observations.
Too bad it's offtopic. (ooh, if only I hadn't squandered all my moderation points on the penis bird!)
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Yeah, I noticed that too. Very disappointing. And the moderation system is flawed, of course. But we knew that already.
Place this comment somewhere a bit more appropriate. As of the time I'm typing this there are 27 mods for "off topic" on this allready. In fact its dissapeard from the main link all together.
It would have been better to submit this as a story.
Acaila
Growing Old is Inevitable; Growing Up is Optional.
Finally, the system of doing moderation and allocating moderation points (assigning the task of moderation and meta-moderation) is totally broken from a UI point of view, which is why I opted out of the whole mess a long while ago. Why should there be 3 seperate activities, some gated or restricted, and some partially hidden from view? And use-it-or-lose-it moderator point assignment? And forcing a choice between moderation and posting? It is a kludge, a bad design. There should be only 1 activity, done in the open, that can contain a comment (to rebut or agree, and/or to justify moderation of it's parent), and logged-in users can also vote on the parent post - including other "moderation" posts. Voting totals cascade up the tree, with reversals for negative moderation (if the system includes it - I have seen posts that really justify it - see this recent post for a comment on such).
Maybe some of the other ideas of the current system should be kept - but the entire system is crying out for a redesign. It is choking on a chain of bad choices, each one which may have seemed justifiable at the time but whose culmative effect is to lower the quality of the site (which I find myself visiting less and less over time).
An esoteric scratched itch:
Homeworld Map Maker Tool
Until I'm modded down to 0 or -1 too, here is your chance to be informed about one of the most controversial posts moderationwise I have ever seen. It sure is interesting and offtopic. I believe it is more interesting than offtopic. Anyway, this post won't last long, so it should better be brief too.
One of the -1 gems on /. (was +4 when I first read it), how many more we have to see until people stop not looking at low scores!
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
Actaully, I was hoping they were going to let the moderations run a little longer, just to see where everyone's post would end up -- but then again, strictly speaking, its offtopic.
You see, the moderation system works - its all offtopic... oh, well, its only karma
Do yourself a favor and read the parent on this post. Yes, it's offtopic. Yes, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Oracle's poorly-conceived marketing. But it is nonetheless an interesting post, and with 58 (as of this writing) moderation points spent on it, is significant enough to deserve your attention....
Moderation Totals: Offtopic=26, Troll=1, Redundant=2, Insightful=7, Interesting=16, Informative=6, Overrated=2, Total=60.
Read the Parent!
Due to excessive bad posting from this IP or Subnet, comment posting has temporarily been disabled. If it's you, consider this a chance to sit in the timeout corner. If it's someone else, this is a chance to hunt them down. If you think this is unfair, please email jamie@mccarthy.vg /. editor conspiracy theories, but this looks VERY suspicious.
Methinks the editors have awoken.
I must say I've never quite believed the
Ow well, my negative karma is safe for a while again.
Moderators are self-selecting themselves as censors, to enforce some sort of groupthink PC. Trolls are posting more and more outreageous stuff, just to attack the system.
CT, it may be too late to save /., this is no longer such a fun site, a place for a community to form - it's just your JOB. Bleah.
Maybe you should just forget about the whole thing??? (Or maybe you have no choice - house and car, too many debts, wage slavery chaining you to a task you no longer love? I've been there.)
An esoteric scratched itch:
Homeworld Map Maker Tool
A few hours ago many posts in this thread had scores above 0. Now every one is -1, offtopic. What gives?
First of all only the parent is offtopic, all replies kept the topic of the parent, so why do we have all these off-topic mods.
/. crew don't want us talking about this, so they fucked all the posts off.
And why has 100 odd posts, some of which were at +2 - +4 now all -1?
Its censership. The
What gives is editors have unlimited points for moderation. It's censorship from the top. Of course what this entire thread deserves is to be re-parented to the top/front page (but the software probably doesn't allow that). Beacuse it is a matter of utmost importance to the /. community.
An esoteric scratched itch:
Homeworld Map Maker Tool
Why is "offtopic" bad? Slashdot should be a friendly forum, where people allow their conversation to wind wherever it wants to.
OK, I know this is technically offtopic, but something very fishy is going on here.
I've been watching this thread most of the afternoon, enjoying the moderation fight and discussion. I know for a fact that as recently as 4:45-5:00, this was still hovering around the 4-5 range, and MANY of the replies were in the 2-4 range as well.
And now, all of the sudden, everything in here is 0 or lower? With a suspicious amount of OffTopics as well? Hell, some of the ones that have been modded down don't even list why they were.
I'm probably risking a little mod-down myself posting at +2 here, but this seems wrong. Editors/moderators: I realize this whole thing is off-topic, but what's the harm with a little discussion? It's not like we haven't seem a million off-topic threads in other stories, I don't see why this one has to be smacked down so harshly.
It hurts when I pee.
Agreed. Interesting threads will live and uninteresting ones will die by their nature.
Okay, Slashdot admins: here's a challenge. Do a month-long test with no negative moderation and with no "offtopic" flag. See what happens. I'll bet it's good.
The funny thing is , the /. community WANTED this to be discussed, this is why there are so many high moderations. Stupid editors
Do you honistly thing the fuckwad editors would put this as a story?
Sad. I like to post AC for the privacy...yet I'm penalized (in a community of security, privacy-consicious folks) for doing so.
Frankly, I don't like AC penalization, I don't like the freaking 2 minute rule...I can't see why the Slashdot people can't cope with the occasional troll. *I* have not seen much of a troll problem, but I'm constantly getting frusterated because Slashdot ate another one of my posts because I'm typing too quickly.
Reading this *thread* it appears that the vast majority of Slashdot readers are unhappy with the current direction of the moderation system.
Bullshit. This is a single action on the part of one of the Slashdot admins. The community was happily discussing this.
Offtopic is GPLed, if you make any derivative work, it must be released with Offtopic tag too.
The main problem with this moderation system is the total lack of visibility to anybody except the editors. For all their talk about open-source and freedom, they don't even practice it on their own site!! The moderators who mod comments are totally hidden from public scrutiny, so when editors throw their points in, who the fuck knows what's going on in there?? Moderation plays a very big role in shaping a discussion, and if the editors mod stuff it is conflict of interest when users comment about the site, the editors, etc.
Bottom line is the editors are unbelievable hypocrites who put up a facade of freedom and openness when their own site is the perfect example of a fake democracy.
Welcome to /.'s vision of "Freedom of Speach". The freedom is controlled by the elite few that have the only *real* power. Now doesn't that sound familier?
Then a few days later, Jon Katz will write an article "INTERNET USERS RISE UP AGAINST FASCIST EDITORS", where he would drop buzzwords left and right about how the Internet has degraded from its original purposes.
.
Let's see how long this takes to get modded down.
Yup, been there, done that. A great way to waste your moderator points.
Well, I mostly don't get involved in these debates. But this is just FUCKED UP. You will never make me believe that all those -1 Off-topic mods where done by earnest moderators.
0 660
Prove: normally there would be more variety (off-topic, troll, redundant, what not).
I'm convinced that someone did abuse their power to mod this entire thread down. And I don't like it. See, I think the moderating system works pretty well as it is (it's not perfect, but what is). HOWEVER, if someone that has the power to do so silences an entire thread, that's just pathetic.
In fact, I would ask anyone that does not agree with this behaviour to report this as abuse to Rob Malda (aka CmdrTaco). In other words: email the guy. Don't forget to add a link to the original thread: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=26315&cid=285
I can't find where now, but somewhere he asks us to report abuse.
Dear god the editors here are lame. It's incredibly obvious that every response to this post is being knocked down to -1 Offtopic not by individual mods, but rather by an editor. The editors and the same droids who expect us to pay tribute to each kernel revision with the aforementioned "ooooohs" and "ahhhhs" are busy trying to knock down the parent, but amazingly it keeps making its way back up to 2 or 3.
I'm personally disgusted by this. I'd just like to say a big AMEN BROTHER to the stated view that distraction posts can make things alot more enjoyable around here, and I'd like to say a big "FUCK YOU" to the individuals diligently modding this down and most of all to the crack-smoking editors smacking down every reply. YOU are the problem, much more so than the occasional off-topic post ever will be.
I don't think the slashdot moderation system is broken by any means. It's the idiot humans behind the mod points who are broken.
50 replies this this, and they have *all* been moderated down to -1 -- are there even that many mod points kicking around normally?
Well, go ahead and knock this down as well - it'll be the first time I'll have been modded down for years, and I could do with some karma breathing space.
-- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.
Offtopic=30, Troll=1, Redundant=2, Insightful=8, Interesting=22, Informative=7, Overrated=2, Total=72.
Actually - fuck it, mod this one down as well. Being stuck at the karma cap for so long takes all the fun out of life.
-- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.
Nice to see you getting into the swing of it Johnny boy .-)
FYI - there was ~100 posts in this thread, a lot of which were 2/4 some 5. All got slapped down to -1 between page refreshes for me. Someone scripted em down.
Nice isn't it.
I lost track of time, was that 40 minutes or so?
I'm looking at this post and the thread of replies extending from it currently, at approximately 11:00pm EST on 01/16/02. Every single post is at -1, some because the posters default to -1, but many which have been modded to -1. A lot of these posters appear to be serious (i.e. "non-troll") and appear to have insightful comments and opinions on these issues. I'm asking for two things: 1. If CmdrTaco et al. respect the intelligence of their patrons, one of the editors should at least post in this thread a serious reply to these allegations, and others brought up in the thread. At the very most, they should post an article to raise the topic for discussion, since it obviously interests many. 2. Everyone who was modded down in this thread: if you have the "Slashdot Messaging" enabled, which notifies you of when your comment was moderated, please post and let us know exactly when your comment was moderated down. This information could clearly show abuse of the moderation system by one or more editors (the infamous thread-slap, which they simultaneously claim doesn't exist and nobody uses anyway). Thank you for your time.
that I wish for some much needed features in Slashdot, for example it has a view from highest to lowest but where is the view from lowest to highest. I mean fair is fair and no it would not just be to give trolls the glory. What if I want to save the *cough* best *cough* for last or what if I don't want to waste my time reading a diatribe describing all the security features including in every RDBMS product out there. Also, along those same lines a upper theshhold for viewing posts should be available so that you can dump those lofty posts that just rehash the Slashdot party line. Ok mods go to it and mod this to hell.
This is very interesting
but what i really want to know is how fast this will get modded down.
I used to bulls-eye womp-rats in my pants
When you get moderator access, you are told to browse at -1 to watch out for abuses in the system. I finally see what they meant. Every single response to this thread got modded (-1, Offtopic). Abuse? Never...
Look at this:
Moderation Totals: Offtopic=34, Flamebait=1, Troll=2, Redundant=2, Insightful=8, Interesting=25, Informative=8, Overrated=2, Underrated=1, Total=83.
Absolutely unbelievable!! I think there is more here than what meets the eye. 1 flamebait but 34 offtopic? 25 interesting but 8 informative? come on, something is wrong here.
I can't believe that people are bothering to mod posts in this very thread down to -1, considering that it's just your journal, and considering that it's all about moderation to begin with.
I've already posted several times a medium-length message asking why specific posts that I thought were both on-topic and also interesting were modded down in Slashdot stories. Some of these posts were modded up to +4 or +5, then modded all the way down to -1 within a day or so.
It's obviously a representation of American stupidity; we all claim to love free speech, but only if we agree with what's being said. Otherwise, they damn well better shut up, or we'll shut them up forcefully.
I complained about the very same thing to CmdrTaco in an email a while ago. He responded on 8/30/01. Below is the text of my email as well as his reply.
;)
My email:
I
> enjoy the site because of the moderation system, where users can post
> comments and only the most informative or best comments can get read.
> In other words, I don't have to waste my time sorting through 75-100
> awful comments to find the few true gems.
>
> I've noticed recently (in fact, since the upgrade) that the moderation
> system seems to have gone downhill. First, a lot of good insightful
> comments don't get moderated, and the few comments that do get
> moderated seem to have been modded down as "offtopic" or something
> similar. I know you say in your moderation guidelines to try to mod up
> instead of down, so I don't think the moderation system itself is at
> fault. Rather, it seems that there are very few moderators actually
> perusing the stories!
>
> For instance, there was an article today about AMD. With 150 comments
> posted, there were NONE moderated above 2. With 175 posted, there was
> ONE moderated to a 3. Something is seriously wrong here. If the
> comments aren't being moderated, this is no better than the imbecile
> flamewars on fc or ZDNet.
CmdrTaco's reply:
I think part of it is that I'm out of town and not moderating much
-----
My comments:
I only find something wrong with this if the editors of Slashdot aren't doing their job. I believe that part of the job of owning a community site is listening to that community. It's very similar to running a company -- if you don't listen to your target market, they will leave for a company that does.
However, this thread, and moreover the fact that this entire thread has been moderated to -1, says that someone at Slashdot is not listening. That endangers the very idea of being the self-appointed king of a community -- that you listen to your constituents. At this point, Slashdot has become ridiculed for everything from its UI to CmdrTaco's grammar to Jon Katz to the asinine comments posted without moderation possibilities to submitted articles. (Witness the war today about CmdrTaco's comment regarding the cheating system used at a university.)
The fact is that Slashdot needs to change. Personally, I have several ideas about how it can change for the better, ranging from more moderation points in the system to the abolishment of the "Offtopic" moderation. (Can you imagine if you were at a dinner party and the conversation drifted to something besides the "assigned" topic and you complained about it? This is the same type of thing.)
On a slightly unrelated note, I believe the 50-karma point cap should be abolished because it doesn't encourage people to post good comments after hitting 50 karma. Furthermore, I believe karma should be milked for all it is worth, and that people should be praised for high karma -- even to the point of putting a "Top Karma Whores" box on the front page listing the 5-10 people in the system with the biggest karma (ala FuckedCompany's scoring system.) Why not? Positive karma means you have posted what is viewed as a good comment. Why not make it a contest? People love competition.
The way to solve all of this, of course, is to simply make a Slashdot discussion forum, and have user input not only discussed but actively implemented. The whole point of open source is that anyone can contribute. It's sad to see that one of the biggest open-source-proponent websites can't encourage the same level of participation.
a lot of rapid moderating, and then no more moderating...
could they make it any more obvious that editors are monkeying with the moderation?
All very interesting (though I might suggest that you get a life) but WTF has it got to do the the topic of the article (Oracle security) ? Yet it gets scored 5!
"I deny nothing, but doubt everything." Lord Byron
Moderation Totals: Offtopic=42, Flamebait=1, Troll=3, Redundant=2, Insightful=9, Interesting=29, Informative=9, Overrated=2, Underrated=3, Total=100.
Pretty amazing.
Moderation Totals: Offtopic=42, Flamebait=1, Troll=3, Redundant=2, Insightful=9, Interesting=29, Informative=9, Overrated=2, Underrated=3, Total=100.
Pretty amazing.
ADDENDUM: Apparently an editor decided to abuse his power (ie. his unlimited mod points) a few seconds prior to me posting the above comment - and indeed, *all* comments in this intriguing thread dropped to -1 Offtopic in an instant, as in previous instances reported by others. It's a rather sobering experience to witness an incident that in it's part serves to mark the decline of a formerly great news/discussion site. Looks like some of the most dooming Slashdot conspiracy theories were true...
It will be very interesting to see if this thread, or at least the post that started it, gets archived (readers win) or not (editors win - site loses).
The users really don't have any real power here, it's only a facade. The only power lies with the editors.
Moderation Totals: Offtopic=42, Flamebait=1, Troll=3, Redundant=2, Insightful=9, Interesting=29, Informative=9, Overrated=2, Underrated=3, Total=100
Pathetic editorial moderation continues - an entire thread does not get modded down to -1 in a minute by normal means. The parent loses 6 points in between refreshes. Power corrupts.
Oddly, I'm getting never-before-seen effects when trying to post this.
amazing that every new post at this time is STILL getting modded down!
Un-fucking-believable!
+5 in my book, if only from what I've seen the editors do to this thread. At least twice, and maybe three times, some editor has been bitchslapping the ENTIRE THREAD down to -1. Mod totals are up to 105, with a net of +1! Couple hundred of responses, too.
I'm not posting AC, and will take the 3 pt. karma hit, just because I think this guy is right.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
This is interesting, but it doesn't help solving the problem. If you allow AC and do not ban people, you need something to control the S/N ratio! At that point, I think that the Friend/Foe system is the most efficient system!
Let's try again - my reply was eaten.
I have a post above that was marked down offtopic twice, both moderations about 20 minutes apart. At the same time as the first moderation the reply to my post was marked down, also as offtopic.
So they have got a little more devious - instead of straight to -1 they're taking off a point at a time to make it look less obvious.
Now I'm having trouble posting this again - I've posted dozens (if not hundreds) of posts from this machine and have never had this difficulty before. Posted just now to another article - absolutely no problem. Something fishy is going on (and no, it is not the delay between articles - the problem was there before I posted to the other thread).
Now up to 110, and still the thread gets modded down. Amazing. I've been reading Slashdot for a while, and always thought the stuff about editors abusing the system was folklore. Anyone mirroring this thread just in case it goes (ahem) missing when it's archived ?
N/T FOO
Its like finding a needle in a haystack. Yes, Oracle as the 800lb gorilla in the database world, but this does not mean that their products are bad. They are propriatory, sure, but almost all databases have got their own tweaks to the standard that allows them to operate more effectively. There is nothing more irritating than trying to port from one product to another and finding a feature on one that makes you rlife easy entirely missing on the other one, which compells you to try and reinvent the wheel yet again, except that your wheel is buggy and slow and takes lots of your valuable time to try and get this cackhanded implementation working. Anyway, eds abusing the mod system is true. But another thing to look at about Oracle is that their influence is actually quite small for their size - probably because Ellison is seen a quite an abusive person and not to be trusted. This lack of trustworthyness should also be applied to the people marking down so violently this thread. But that is another matter - Oracle is happy in its market and is showing no stomach for cancerous expansion like Larry's old friend BillG. A little reverse engineering on my part here to see how the abuse is being done. Oracle biggest weakness is that it is a one trick pony - best hope that people want the trick for a long time to come.
112 moderations on the parent alone, and all replies at -1 (Offtopic)? Why won't the editors let us users discuss what we want? It's obvious that it's not user moderators alone that has been doing all the moderating to this thread.
I for one has finally lost faith in slashdot.
And, remember, whoever the editor was that did all the moderating - it is YOU that have made me lose that faith.
Just wait till the next slashback or other slashdot related article.
Count me in.
/. is an open, free and user-moderated forum out of one side of your mouth, while instantly nuking entire threads to get rid of discussions that you (apparently) don't like. The parent post may be off-topic, but the last time I checked, user moderators have an "Offtopic" option and could have marked it as such if they desired. (Many, in fact, did so; many did not.)
/. editor. This is beginning to happen with some regularity; your credibility would be helped if you would at least come clean. None of this namby-pampy fiddly-fuck "um, we don't do that sort of thing."
/. for a long time; I liked it, and in general I still do like it. But IMHO the editors would do well to let the moderators do their jobs. Moderating and meta-moderating is not exactly the easiest or most enjoyable task in the world, you know. It takes time and effort to find insightful comments to moderate up. It takes time and effort to pour through people's moderations and judge them on their merits. And frankly, it does piss me off a little that these efforts are being overshadowed by skriptz that will handily dispose of all "subversive" comments in a manner that is not subject to metamoderation.
I find this clandestine mass-robomoderation to be thoroughly distasteful. I'm not going to yell "censorship", as so many others have; after all, it is your site and you are free to do what you like. However, it is entirely hypocritical to claim that
If you're going to be doing this type of thing, the least you could do is have the cajones to come clean about it. Explain that editors may, on occasion, wipe out threads that they find undesirable; explain that this nullifies the expressed wishes of the existing moderators, and explain that people should attempt to preserve their karma by avoiding discussions that could potentially invoke the ire of a
I've been reading
There's my $0.02. I could check the "No Score +1 Bonus", but I won't. I think three karma points is worth it, when there is a point to be made. I hope I've made one.
We're going down, in a spiral to the ground
Very well said post. I hope the "first" in the title means there are more to come.
/. janitors: Fuck off you hypocritical facist sons of bitches.
We all know it's going to disappear when archived.
.....i guess i'll lose mine the same as everyone else who has posted on this thread,i've seen the parent go from +4 to -1,even tho he's offtopic he is still correct,this has been the most intelligent and worthy of reading thread on slashdot in a long time and from the look of everyone else posting i'm not the only one that thinks that,right now karma has very little value after this thread...
[I've posted two other AC comments in this thread (in the same subthread), if it matters]
:-|
This thread will never be allowed to be archived in the Slashdot archives. Even if people moderate posts up in the last second before the cut-off line, I'm sure a script will be in place to counteract these - the editors will then have the ability to ignore the whole thing, citing the fact that -1 posts do not get archived. (Maybe we should start submitting this thread to various other news-related discussion sites? Or would that be too drastic? Well at least we should bring this up in the next Slashback.)
So, to everyone reading this while the thread is active:
You are witnessing the undoing of Slashdot.
I really do hope that I'm being overly dramatic with that statement, since I've been reading Slashdot for quite some time, and liked it for the most part. But now, it seems that any efforts to improve the current situation may be too little too late.
What kind of high degree of pettyness do you need to try to silence AN ENTIRE THREAD of this discussion? So much for slashdot being a 'user-moderated' system, eh?
unless you dispute otherwise that you have been down-modding this thread, you will have utterly thrown away any credibility this site has left. not too mention the hypocrisy and corruption you guys have fallen for.
Brilliant. I've never seen such an obvious attempt at censorship.
This is the most ridiculous display of censorship I've seen ever. Modding down a whole thread. Shame on you. Obviously the community do not agree!!!
Oh, that, and the parent thread. Reading it may illimunate what may possibly happen if government can track all your actions and act without any wisdom and respect for different ideas.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
I've been reading /. for well over a year now and have never seen such a petty, small-minded display of chicanery on the part of the editors like this. This thread is a disgrace to a site that claims to be an open and user moderated forum. I know I'm burning a karma point by posting here but, like others here, I don't care since I feel the need to express my (logged in) opinion.
/. editors for their juvenille behavior.
Shame on the
---
I didn't want to leave this space blank.
Hi.
Thanks for your time and research. I appreciate you speaking out on issues like this.
testing out my trending skills
Count me in.
Please mod me down 3 times to -1 Offtopic. I know that you refuse to take responsibility for your actions - you won't even admit that Editors are different from Slashdot users in priveleges and visibility. It's absurd. I know that the last revision of the moderation guidelines is dated 1999. And I know you won't even read my post before you moderate it to -1. I know this because you've already IP banned me, removed my moderation priveleges, and removed my metamoderation priveleges. All this is your right. Slashdot is privately owned, I take nothing for granted here, if you delete my account, so be it.
But as I have said, as the parent poster has said, as everyone else has said: please, grow a pair and take responsibility for what you're doing. Please, at the very least, tell the god damned truth. I admire the way you people skewer large corporations. But wielding the sharp sword of Truth bears with it the responsibility of being Truthful in your dealings with your readership.
And let me tell you, modbombing an entire thread with a 10,000 pound Offtopic bunker-buster while claiming that the moderation system is self governing while refusing to message people when you've Editor-moderated them is going to peg anyone's bullshit meter.
Moderation is not Censorship. I would never claim that; it's a stupid position and if we throw it up it's easily shot down. Moderation simply governs visibility. What people talk about determines what people know and learn about at Slashdot. It controls the propogation of memes. And you are hellbent on suppressing this meme. I'll refrain from speculating about your motivation... but consider how angry it makes you that the MPAA is trying to suppress memes about copy protection and the MPAA. Now step into the shoes of the people who are pissed off about modbombing and find themselves suddenly pounded into -1 oblivion the moment they open their mouth. That's where the bile comes from.
It'd be nice to take your rhetoric seriously but 300 Offtopic moderations make the hypocrisy too deafening to hear anything over.
--
What happens when you outlaw guns
Moderation Totals: Offtopic=52, Flamebait=1, Troll=3, Redundant=2, Insightful=10, Interesting=36, Informative=10, Funny=2, Overrated=2, Underrated=4, Total=122.
My god, I dont believe this. Not just the fact this has recieved a huge amount of moderation, but the fact the entire thread is bitch slapped!
The ONLY post offtopic is the parent. I am replying to that parent, that means I am On-topic. Thence, I only can presume the subsequent moderations on this thread is censorship, Slashdot style.
Proof in this will be a moderation of -1 Offtopc, not -1 Troll like it deserves.
Moderators, mod this up as 'insightful' and 'funny'... Make sure you read the parent's of this post. It shouldn't get modded down, well, at least its ontopic :)
Mod the other ontopic posts up too, they might last a while.
Not that I have anything to add, but I haven't seen any new replies to this thread...which makes me wonder if it's modded to hell (I browse at -1 without showing moderation) or if it got stale...or is it blocked? I suppose I'll find out when I try and post this.
Writers imply. Readers infer.
Fuck. I'm a retard. I didn't bother to look at the day, just the time.
Now I'm surprised it's still as lively as it was last night.
Writers imply. Readers infer.
come on now..are these guys professionals or 10 year olds who just had their toys taken away from them?
Its a pointless battle. I'm in, have been in it. I would just like to see what moderations are editor moderations vs. user moderations. I bet over half the mods on your post (currently 134!!!!) are editor moderations...
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
The parent had a +1 Interesting, and now I see it's been slapped down again (135 now). Is there really some mod just sitting there monitoring the thread in order to bring down its rating all the time?
Last time I checked an individual moderator could get no more than 5 moderation points at a time. For this to happen through peer moderation, a horde of moderators would have to closely watch this thread for several days. Nope, can't be.
Hello! I've got 3 karma points to burn. Just a test to see how fast the robomoderation kicks in.
This post starts with a score of 2. I will post again when it's modded down, and compare timestamps to see how fast the modding was.
This is amazing and chilling stuff.
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
it's a really sad commentary on the part of the editors. and they STILL haven't bothered to respond on the record to this crap.
The stories posted themselves are not closely fact-checked. Without the tireless eyes of the thousands of Slashdot readers examining the stories, this site would be worthless. Only because they check your information, dig deeper, and share their knowledge does this site become useful.
This abuse of moderation is against the entire spirit of open-source software. Without being able to bring faults into the light, Linux (and other operating systems) would not have grown into the stable system that it is today. Without competition and cooperation, open source would fail miserably.
You, Mister Editor, are actively attempting to kill Slashdot by moderating down all posts in this thread. You will succeed in driving us "trolls" to other websites, or to found our own... leaving Slashdot in the rubble of history.
I demand the following things from Slashdot:
If Slashdot wants to be the powerhouse in the open source movement, it needs to be responsive to its users -- or it will lose them.
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn. Or a juggernaut.
Conclusion: robomoderation
This one dropped even faster. 2 to -1 in less than 5 minutes.
Offtopic, but also interesting. :-)
Is it more interesting than it is offtopic?
Of course, with the editors sending the entire thread to -1, you can't tell.
I'm Spartacus!
Wasting your time since 1997.
I do hope that the moderators realize that a link to this very discussion is shooting up the moderation queue over in Kuro5hin . Unless they delete the parent to this message completely from their system, they're going to get an awful lot of bad press...
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn. Or a juggernaut.
Get it through you head. We don't like this. This is extremely unprofessional and just plain paternalism. You guys would be all over it with a YRO article if another site did this. You have shown yourselves to be utter hypocrites.
Proof that the same Slashdot editors who champion free speech use everything they can to squash that same right when used against them.
/. over the past few weeks. I read things like the parent and, quite frankly, I'm sick of this. Fuck Slashdot. I've been trying to reach the 50pt karma cap as a personal goal. Now I couldn't give a shit.
The parent of my comment has been moderated: Offtopic=64, Flamebait=1, Troll=3, Redundant=2, Insightful=13, Interesting=41, Informative=12, Funny=2, Overrated=2, Underrated=5, Total=145.
I just watched it go from -1 Offtopic to +1 Insightful and back down to 0 in three page refreshes.
I've become more disillusioned with
Editors, why do you bother bitchslapping this entire thread? It's all invisible anyway if you just mod down the parent. Or are you just trying to fuck with the karma of everyone who dares reply to this post made by someone who is clearly an enemy of All That Is Good About Slashdot?
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Quite interesting to look at the proportion of posts in this topic that are -1.
As of this moment:
-1: 489 comments
0: 270 comments
1: 216 comments
2: 113 comments
3: 49 comments
4: 22 comments
5: 9 comments
... which means fully 219 comments in this story have been moderated to -1 -- probably most of this thread.
Just showing a little solidarity here. /. posters unite!
To quote a previous poster:
Mr Taco, tear down this wall!!!
If it ain't broke, you need more software.
Here's a hint editors, you are looking like bigger fools every time you mod down this thread, and turn the majority of users against you or your policies.
Stop it now and save yourselves before it is too late.
Funny that this was down to -1 by the time I was able to refresh the page.
:-)
I doubt any real moderators are wasting their points moderating everything here to -1. Something that has 150+ moderations has to be interesting (offtopic or not.)
I think we should link this thread from sigs and regular posts for a while.
Posts may get moderated down -- but a sig can never be offtopic.
This is uninsightful and off-topic, it doesn't belong on an excellent sight like slashdot.
yeah, great method of quelling the voices of dissent.....fuck you, slashdot
I gots me some karma to burn.
MOD THE PARENT UP! HE MAKES AN EXCELLENT POINT!
'nuff said. Moderators, it's your choice... mod me down or mod the parent up. Think positive!!!!
Kinda proves the point: Moderating down is the more common choice. ;) It's just that apparently nobody has to waste a precious modpoint on this thread, 'cause where these -1s come from, there's an unlimited supply of 'em.
We must keep this thread alive. The trick is to put a link to this thread in your sig and then make Insightful, On-topic posts. These get modded up and more people see the tyranny of the /. editors.
Example post:
Letting Microsoft develop <insert technology> is like having the wolf guard the hen house.
--
Mr. Taco, tear down this wall!!!
test test test
...fuck you in your sperm soaked asshole
I always found the Linux client, which uses the FastTrack proprietary-but-cross-platform (http://www.fasttrack.nu/) P2P stack, to be buggy to the extent of being unusable. Could've been a libc mismatch with my Debian-unstable system, but it wouldn't accept user input after starting up and logging in.
fp! hahaha! I WIN
yup
indeed
amazing...this went from 0 to -1 in the time i took to refresh from posting,i was posting at +1 until i spoke about the slashdot censors
I WIN
Same here, thats why the AC post. What a bunch of HYPOCRITES these guys are.
Thanks. Now my karma is so low, my posts start at -1. All thanks to a certain negative modding that has been taking place in the past few days.
We should do this more often, and call it the "International Internet Is Fast Again Day".
Affectionatly known as IIIFAD.
Murphy(c)
youre just another lame leecher
Why would you want it to? Linux has shown itself time and time again to be sub-par for a wide variety of reasons.
Is Linux for you and your business? Probably not.
Fuck off, moron. I'm sure you've used Linux for a grand total of thirty seconds. Go back to sucking Daddy Gates' cock.
Is this post ontopic or off? It sure got bitchslapped.
Some of the female tennis players look really hot, but most of them are probably lesbian or bi and that's a big turn-off.
Furthermore, I'm really bothered by their grunts and sweat.
Isn't the real reason for the war the fact that they didn't turn over the terrorists?
IE, we're not invading them because they have terrorists inside their borders (in which case, we'd have to invade half of the world), but because they didn't turn over *the* group of terrorists that killed 3000 of our people.
get the hell outta here....you're offtopic! ;)
Modbomb me harder!
Thank you sir may I have another!
--
What happens when you outlaw guns
Unfortunately, Slashdot won't ever move to the k5 engine. :(
Anyone posting in this thread is pretty much doomed to extinction in the slashdot world. We're seeing the editors true colors showing through - I got modded as offtopic in my own SID (I didn't even know we could create our own sids!). But the link is in my signature. Bottom line is, I can't wait till some of this stuff hits the metamod queue. If it does - the editors may have an override for -that-, too.
( could you imagine? the ancestor post would have to be metamodded hundreds of times.. )
Taco needs a karma of -155.
Let's face it... this abuse of moderation is already being publicized outsize Slashdot, and if they continue to attack us, the publicity will just get worse.
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn. Or a juggernaut.
k5 is already carrying it.. If only theregister would carry it.. the "nonmainstream" media. If we can get a big enough uproar going... ah, im dreaming again.
AK, Sacrificing Karma for the sake of what I believe in.
Underrated moderations give a +1 bonus but don't show the reason.
Been there, done that. It's really not as fullfilling as you might imagine. And afterwards... What's the point of posting? You are just risking scratches to your shine.
If your sole reason for slapping everyone is that this is purely off topic, than that's just sad.
If, in fact, you find the fact that we, the denizens of slashdot, find your editor moderation tactics to be somewhat fascist, and therefore resent our right to free speech, then just come out and say so. Delete the posts. Hell, delete our accounts. But just slapping down everyone who posts to -1 is a waste of your time.
Kill 3 of my karma. Have fun.
Gawyn
Freedom of Speech?
I'm trying to think of other good non-mainstream media that would be interested... the problem is, there aren't THAT many. And I'd rather the mainstream media (like ZDNet / CNET, MSNBC, and technical savvy newspapers) have to read the non-mainstream media. (Yes, I know that Dan Gillmor works for the San Jose Mercury News. They're still quite cool in my book.)
What the heck. I'm sending the letter on to them, as well.
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn. Or a juggernaut.
Lets see if this gets moderated down to -1 too...
Frankly, what I find in this thread is disgusting. I don't think any moderator would spend this many points on one thread...
BTW, love your journal.
No replies made to AC posts. Please log in.
Also check FortKnox's journal and the the parent post for more information.
I'll take the karma hit. Scriptmods may be okay for dumbass stuff like goatsex ascii art, but for a legitimate discussion about slashdot? I don't think so.
sulli
RTFJ.
I this http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=26315&cid=2860 621 offtopic?
(in Russian)
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I have a real problem with the offtopic mods. Often when discussing an article, discussion will drift away from the original article. I think this is to be encouraged or at least looked upon neutrally. Not everyone is so anal retentive that they need every post to be under its "proper" article. Sometimes there isn't a proper place for it, like the comment that spurred this extended conversation.
Cat