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USA Busted Trying to Bug China's Presidential 767
morcheeba writes "A new Boeing 767-300ER was refitted to become China's presidental aircraft. What goes into a plane like this? Besides the bedroom, sitting room, bath with a shower, there was a 48" TV, satellite communications, anti-missile defense systems and advanced avionics. And oh yeah, numerous high-tech listening devices. Wonder how those got in. Read the article at washingtonpost.com." CD: The question is, what was the bug in the headboard for?
Don't let the CIA bite.
The bug in the headboard? For picking up pillow talk, obviously.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
Since so many things are manufactured in China and exported to the USA, who's to say that the Chinese haven't been doing this for years? I think it would be very easy to covertly place bugs in things the president has in the Oval Office or Air Force One (electronics, etc.) They just might be doing it a lot more effectively.
The future isn't what it used to be.
It's not a bug, it's an undocumented feature.
You know I've often wondered how countries can trust US equipment sold to them (or Russian equipment, etc): Who says that the day Saudi Arabia pisses the US off all of their F15s might respond to the "die now" signal and plummet to the ground? If I were ever to buy hardware from a country other than my own I'd go through every single mm of it with a fine tooth comb, and then I'd reflash every piece of circuitry, etc: There is no way I'd ever trust what was delivered. Sorta defeats the premise of military trade, but perhaps that's a good thing.
If this story is true then this will be a disaster for US military and commercial companies: Already there is a world wary of Echelon, but if now they have to worry about every other device being trojan horsed. Having said that, the next time you drink from that "made in China" cup, think to yourself "Would it be in their national interest to put a chemical that slowly leaches into Westerner's systems, causing cancer or just stupifying the society (i.e. lead)."
The US has also used the following nifty tricks to spy on its enemies and its allies:
1. The ambassador in some Communist country (maybe even the USSR, I don't remember exactly which) would avoid potential bugs in his office by holding conversations on the balcony outside. Intelligence officials noticed there was often a lot of branches on the ground, so they put together a fake tree branch containing a listening device and planted it outside the balcony. Eventually a gardener picked it up, but said intelligence officials grabbed it out of the trash, dusted it off, and replanted it.
2. When Khruschev came to visit the US during the 1960s, the CIA spent $2 million to divert the plumbing to his hotel bathroom to a special container so they could analyze his fecal matter. Apparently they were hoping to find out if rumors he had cancer were true. The $2 million conclusion? Khruschev needed more fibre in his diet.
3. The Cabinet room in Ottawa (the capital of Canada for the ignorant) has special curtains that are always drawn. The reason? The US Embassy (an ugly postmodern glass-and-steel combo with foot-thick windows) is just across the street, and happens to have a ton of spying equipment on the roof, including laser devices capable of picking up subtle vibrations of windows and passing the data to a computer that spits out a coherent version of the conversation.
4. The CIA (although I thought the NRO - National Reconnaissance Office - ran American spy satellite operations) is rumored to have at least one satellite that has the space version of stealth technology. This satellite reportedly uses mirrors to foil visual detection from the ground, thereby enabling to spy on without knowing he is being watched.
CIA agent to Boeing exec, after arriving at Boeing facility at midnight: "Hi, we're taking over your facility for the next 8 hours for a matter of national security. Go home. If you tell anyone about this, you'll be put in jail for the rest of your life."
Boeing exec: "Uh.... ok.... uh...."
Probably not too much more complicated than that.
q:]
MadCow.
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
Okay, it's certainly the most likely scenario that the CIA would bug this plane, but I can't help but wonder if it isn't too obvious? Besides isn't 20+ bugs a little overkill? With that many you're almost certain to get caught and the you'd have to really want the intelligence enough that you'd hope a few wouldn't get found.
So what are the alternatives? I suppose there are a few other countries with the technology, and a few that might want to spy on China. India might be the next most likely, but they still seem pretty unlikely to be in a position to pull it off. Perhaps it was an inside job then? Maybe China wants a diplomatic incident? Or, maybe their spy agency would be interested in bugging their own president?
Since no one ever confesses in these situations, and it's unlikely that there will ever be enough proof to really say who accomplished this or how. My money is still on the CIA though, but it forces me to wonder whether the administration is a bit more frightened than they let on? I mean what does it really say if the intelligence is so valuable that they'd risk an almost certain diplomatic incident by using so many bugs on the hope a few bugs would remain undiscovered.
On the other hand, it's equally fair to wonder whether the US wants a diplomatic incident? But I have a hard time justifying that one in these times. Isn't terrorism a good enough evil for the 21st century?
This is not suprising: the US spies on everyone, including allies (yes, even Britain.) (In fact, I saw a documentary the other day about how we bugged the Xerox machine at the Soviet embassy, and got snapshots of all their documents for years.) So while it may be a little embarrassing to get caught, it isn't a revelation. China shouldn't take it personally--we spy on everyone.
Of course, that doesn't mean spying is moral or ethical--that is another discussion entirely.
When the new Chinese embassy was built in Canberra, Australia, the Australian intelligence agencies attempted to riddle the building with bugs. Unfortunately, they got caught and it made the national papers. However, the Chinese barely made a squeak about it in public. I think we can safely assume they try to do the same things to us.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Nah, communism did that for itself. Come on - Marx wrote books to pay for his kids education, travel, etc. then on to Lenin, Stalin, and everything that made russia what it is today (which is: not a communist country).
Communism is a really interesting idea, and a very noble set of ideals. But what it comes down to is controlling people, and all it takes when you have power is one person to use it and all those lofty goals are subverted.
Final note: in business or in government, don't trust 5 year plans that don't have month-by-month goals. 'Cause no-one can procrastinate that much and still do the work.
-Peter
== Just my opinion(s)
Maybe China forgot that the extra $20 million they spent were for the bugs.
Way back when Xerox sold copiers to the Soviets, they installed little microfilm cameras in them. The Soviets paid Xerox for maintenance contracts. The field technicians who serviced the copiers would secretly replace the microfilm cannisters when they changed the ink cartridges. The film cannisters were given to the US government as part of a separate service contract with the US.
Eventually, the Soviets figured out the ruse.
Obviously, the US government has taken advantage of US technology to bug the Chinese plane also. Just shows there is a benefit to being the world's technological leader. All your enemies have to come to the US for parts and service.
Heck, it's not the spying they're taking personally. It's the insult of not bothering to cover your tracks well enough.
To put 20+ bugs in a plane and assume that the Chinese won't find them is simply insulting the Chinese intelligence community and via them, the Chinese government. That's what they're taking personally. It's kind of a "Just how stupid do you think we are?" personal.
That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze
I'm wondering: were this bugs marked "made in USA"?
Seems silly, but (slightly offtopic): years ago, the US tapped a Soviet military communications cable that was running underwater in some bay somewhere near the Asian Soviet coast. Worked well for a while, but when the Soviets finally discovered the tapping device/recorder, it turned out it was marked "Property of the United States government". Somewhat amusing.
You can read all about it in "Blind Man's Bluff" by Sherry Sontag et al.
MSN 8: Now Microsoft even has bugs in their ad campaigns.
We have these things called Facts...
1: The American spy plane was in international waters (as recognized by the rest of the world save China)
2: The pilot of the Chinese plan was killed because he flew too close to a larger plane and ran into it
You DO know that Wen-Ho Lee was effectively exonerated of any charges of espionage, right...? -_- ?
< tofuhead >
It is still the dark of night.
.. even software.
Any manufactured item which doesn't have it's guts wide open always have the possibility of stuff like this.
It is actually rather impossible to know wether for instance MS-software does not have government requested back doors.
Free software probably also have some risk, because it would be impossible for someone to be sure that the millions of lines of source code, some which are rather difficult to understand, could not have some small back door.
Ok, I found a web page for it!
From the Associated Press, in response to the Enron ordeal:
[snip]
The spokesman [Ari] said Bush is always ``looking out to protect America's jobs and taxpayers' money.'' He noted, for example, that Bush has talked to China about purchasing a Boeing aircraft.
[snip]
I'm always looking in this paper for the dumb shit they report, but this is got to be the funniest thing I've seen in a while.
Of course they want them to buy Boeing aircraft, the special ones.
I must somewhat defend the CIA or whoever did this. I mean, they spy on us... why not spy on them for a change. I'm sure the Chinese have planted a few bugs here and there.
It's just funny they got caught is all.
Get your Unix fortune now!
First off two wrongs don't make a right. The bigger question to me is why would the US do this to a plane that will be examined from the top down the second it gets delivered? The mostly likely conclusion is to generate more tensions between the US and China.
From the get-go the bush administration has been very adamant on trying to create a new red-scare ostensibly to help defense contracts get through. Think back before 9/11 and look at the various games of cat and mouse the US has been playing with China.
The sad part is that there is lots of trade to be lost by being percieved as the world's biggest spy. Look at the European take on MS and government collusion, Echelon, etc.
In the end this kind of strategy will cost companies revenues, jobs, and negatively affect the economy just to appease the military-industrial complex. In a slumping economy pissing off your potential customers is very bad business and I doubt the big defense contracts are going to make up for what the US is going to lose in trade by its reputation. Even if they did the money comes from American taxes, so its a no-win situation.
This is cold war politics at action. The Russians took this kind of thing as par for the course, but our current administration does not have a firm grasp on how important perception is in the 21st century. The old cold war games may now not be non-event exchanges but could cost us dearly.
They spy on us, we spy on them, and generally it's not a bad thing because it gives insight into whether those you are spying on are posing a real threat or just being belligerent, and prevents either side from preparing surprise attacks. The diplomats know this, which is why you rarely hear of spying - it's just business.
The question you should be asking is, why is China making such a big deal out of this now, when they haven't before? Why were they so aggressive towards that EP-3, and more recently the P-3? What might they have up their sleeve - an actual push on Taiwan, or a military challenge to the US in the Pacific? You should read Jane's and Stratfor's reports on the subject before you go crying on how unfair this is, particularly when the US has strong alliances with South Korea, Taiwan, and the Phillipines, and an obligation to defend Japan.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
There are always bugs in the residences of diplomats and the various cubby holes of mid-range political activity. But at the higher end of the scale. . . That is, if there are bugs on the Chinese version of Air Force One, then you can safely bet that they WILL be found.
Which means that they were meant to be found.
Bugs aren't interesting.
The interesting thing is that it made high profile 'real' news (i.e., the Washington Post).
Why? Easy. -To further the programming of public awareness on both sides of the Atlantic.
-See stories about how China now filters Email. Look for similar material over the next few months.
The highschool play unfolding on the world stage is clearly being performed in order to cast China in the role of the next big bad guy.
Why?
So that when the curtain finally goes up on 'act 2' (-That'd be the whole plot development between Pakistan, India and China, each with nukes, BTW), the U.S. will have paved the way for public sympathy in supporting the country most able to provide, um, oil. And general fear.
I'm betting on concentration camps being open for business in the U.S. in another ten years. Maybe sooner.
Why?
Cuz Fear is Food. Solution? Refuse to play. Fear is a choice. Laugh a lot. Love your friends. Stay healthy. Learn how to avoid the bullshit, in the air, in your food, in the programming. The end of the world, (beginning of the new), only happens once in a very long while; Try to enjoy it!
-Fantastic Lad