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USA Busted Trying to Bug China's Presidential 767
morcheeba writes "A new Boeing 767-300ER was refitted to become China's presidental aircraft. What goes into a plane like this? Besides the bedroom, sitting room, bath with a shower, there was a 48" TV, satellite communications, anti-missile defense systems and advanced avionics. And oh yeah, numerous high-tech listening devices. Wonder how those got in. Read the article at washingtonpost.com." CD: The question is, what was the bug in the headboard for?
Don't let the CIA bite.
Maybe they set their watches wrong, and are now set to Apr 1st?
Could it be true?
Make even shorter URLs - 8LN.org
The bug in the headboard? For picking up pillow talk, obviously.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
Since so many things are manufactured in China and exported to the USA, who's to say that the Chinese haven't been doing this for years? I think it would be very easy to covertly place bugs in things the president has in the Oval Office or Air Force One (electronics, etc.) They just might be doing it a lot more effectively.
The future isn't what it used to be.
It's not a bug, it's an undocumented feature.
That is an odd thing to complain about when there are so many other glaring human rights problems that are much more serious in china.
Anarchists never rule
Whether this is true or not does not matter. China figured that they overpaid for the work on the plane. The Chinese government paid $30 million to the Chinese Air Force, who paid the American firms $10,000,000 to do the job. What's a great way to get out of paying your bills? If you're a big nuclear superpower, just make an international incident out of it!
Cryptnotic
My other first post is car post.
You know I've often wondered how countries can trust US equipment sold to them (or Russian equipment, etc): Who says that the day Saudi Arabia pisses the US off all of their F15s might respond to the "die now" signal and plummet to the ground? If I were ever to buy hardware from a country other than my own I'd go through every single mm of it with a fine tooth comb, and then I'd reflash every piece of circuitry, etc: There is no way I'd ever trust what was delivered. Sorta defeats the premise of military trade, but perhaps that's a good thing.
If this story is true then this will be a disaster for US military and commercial companies: Already there is a world wary of Echelon, but if now they have to worry about every other device being trojan horsed. Having said that, the next time you drink from that "made in China" cup, think to yourself "Would it be in their national interest to put a chemical that slowly leaches into Westerner's systems, causing cancer or just stupifying the society (i.e. lead)."
...was for Cinemax's new "World Leaders: EXPOSED" series. Coming this fall. You don't wanna know what they caught Jean Chretien doing -- or DO you?
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Is this a surprise? Gotta wonder how much of the tech China bought during the Clinton administration is booby-trapped
Listening to NPR tonight, the BBC also mentioned this story. It's not just the Washington Post on this one.
The US has also used the following nifty tricks to spy on its enemies and its allies:
1. The ambassador in some Communist country (maybe even the USSR, I don't remember exactly which) would avoid potential bugs in his office by holding conversations on the balcony outside. Intelligence officials noticed there was often a lot of branches on the ground, so they put together a fake tree branch containing a listening device and planted it outside the balcony. Eventually a gardener picked it up, but said intelligence officials grabbed it out of the trash, dusted it off, and replanted it.
2. When Khruschev came to visit the US during the 1960s, the CIA spent $2 million to divert the plumbing to his hotel bathroom to a special container so they could analyze his fecal matter. Apparently they were hoping to find out if rumors he had cancer were true. The $2 million conclusion? Khruschev needed more fibre in his diet.
3. The Cabinet room in Ottawa (the capital of Canada for the ignorant) has special curtains that are always drawn. The reason? The US Embassy (an ugly postmodern glass-and-steel combo with foot-thick windows) is just across the street, and happens to have a ton of spying equipment on the roof, including laser devices capable of picking up subtle vibrations of windows and passing the data to a computer that spits out a coherent version of the conversation.
4. The CIA (although I thought the NRO - National Reconnaissance Office - ran American spy satellite operations) is rumored to have at least one satellite that has the space version of stealth technology. This satellite reportedly uses mirrors to foil visual detection from the ground, thereby enabling to spy on without knowing he is being watched.
From Lenin to Jiang Zemin is obviously not progress.
A CIA spokesman, Bill Harlow, declined to comment on the report, saying, "We never comment on allegations like these, as a matter of policy."
...did you by chance work for Microsoft before?
CIA agent to Boeing exec, after arriving at Boeing facility at midnight: "Hi, we're taking over your facility for the next 8 hours for a matter of national security. Go home. If you tell anyone about this, you'll be put in jail for the rest of your life."
Boeing exec: "Uh.... ok.... uh...."
Probably not too much more complicated than that.
q:]
MadCow.
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
Okay, it's certainly the most likely scenario that the CIA would bug this plane, but I can't help but wonder if it isn't too obvious? Besides isn't 20+ bugs a little overkill? With that many you're almost certain to get caught and the you'd have to really want the intelligence enough that you'd hope a few wouldn't get found.
So what are the alternatives? I suppose there are a few other countries with the technology, and a few that might want to spy on China. India might be the next most likely, but they still seem pretty unlikely to be in a position to pull it off. Perhaps it was an inside job then? Maybe China wants a diplomatic incident? Or, maybe their spy agency would be interested in bugging their own president?
Since no one ever confesses in these situations, and it's unlikely that there will ever be enough proof to really say who accomplished this or how. My money is still on the CIA though, but it forces me to wonder whether the administration is a bit more frightened than they let on? I mean what does it really say if the intelligence is so valuable that they'd risk an almost certain diplomatic incident by using so many bugs on the hope a few bugs would remain undiscovered.
On the other hand, it's equally fair to wonder whether the US wants a diplomatic incident? But I have a hard time justifying that one in these times. Isn't terrorism a good enough evil for the 21st century?
China doesn't give Communism a bad name, Communism gives Communism a bad name. Can you name a single Communist nation that you would hold up as a shining beacon to the rest of the world?
Now, a certain degree of socialism, on the other hand... I'm down with that.
This is not suprising: the US spies on everyone, including allies (yes, even Britain.) (In fact, I saw a documentary the other day about how we bugged the Xerox machine at the Soviet embassy, and got snapshots of all their documents for years.) So while it may be a little embarrassing to get caught, it isn't a revelation. China shouldn't take it personally--we spy on everyone.
Of course, that doesn't mean spying is moral or ethical--that is another discussion entirely.
When the new Chinese embassy was built in Canberra, Australia, the Australian intelligence agencies attempted to riddle the building with bugs. Unfortunately, they got caught and it made the national papers. However, the Chinese barely made a squeak about it in public. I think we can safely assume they try to do the same things to us.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Nah, communism did that for itself. Come on - Marx wrote books to pay for his kids education, travel, etc. then on to Lenin, Stalin, and everything that made russia what it is today (which is: not a communist country).
Communism is a really interesting idea, and a very noble set of ideals. But what it comes down to is controlling people, and all it takes when you have power is one person to use it and all those lofty goals are subverted.
Final note: in business or in government, don't trust 5 year plans that don't have month-by-month goals. 'Cause no-one can procrastinate that much and still do the work.
-Peter
== Just my opinion(s)
as you can imagine. I've heard a rumor when I was working for IB? in 1994 but since I couldn't find proof of it so take it a grain of salt.
A report saying that H? has shipped to Middle East some printers which have suspicious chips hidden. It was discovered by China's agents. Due to embargo China had problems getting many advanced equipment thus must rely on their 'partners' to resell some of them, and discovered the case.
Rumor said that these chips are not merely listening devices, but for more dangerous missile-guided purpose.
Soon after this instance Microsoft shipped software that included anti-communist messages.
China has already lost much confidence in using US' technology since.
Maybe China forgot that the extra $20 million they spent were for the bugs.
Maybe not a country, but part of the reason Che left Cuba was because he felt that the principle "no man shoudl have two coats until..." wasnt really being followed. There even goes a story that he got into an argument with his wife over having two bathrooms in thier house, where he refused to have two because everybody else didnt have two.
Some people actully practice what they preach. Dont be so cynical.
Mess Stuff Up
In the words of the great Homer J Simpsons, "In theory! In theory, communism works, in theory."
What?
Cryptnotic
My other first post is car post.
Rather than searching the plane to make sure all bugs/listening-devices are discovered, it would be easier just to fit a cone of silence
"What's that Chief?!"
"I'm sorry Max, you'll have to speak up!"
:)
After that incident, I could see the U.S. wanting to "get back" at the Chinese. Maybe they put the bugs there specifically so that they would be found, or just because they think the Chinese like taking apart planes. You could see it as an "international practical joke".
This is of course, assuming that the bugs were actually there. Right now, all we have to go on is second hand statements from the Chinese military. Personally, I think it is more likely that they are trying to get out of paying the bill.
Cryptnotic
My other first post is car post.
I've figured it all out. The US has been spying on China for quite some time (the new cold war?) and I know what they want. I can't believe I didn't discover this fact when the US spy plane went down over China. They want the infamous egg salad recipe. So much trouble for such a small item.
Way back when Xerox sold copiers to the Soviets, they installed little microfilm cameras in them. The Soviets paid Xerox for maintenance contracts. The field technicians who serviced the copiers would secretly replace the microfilm cannisters when they changed the ink cartridges. The film cannisters were given to the US government as part of a separate service contract with the US.
Eventually, the Soviets figured out the ruse.
Obviously, the US government has taken advantage of US technology to bug the Chinese plane also. Just shows there is a benefit to being the world's technological leader. All your enemies have to come to the US for parts and service.
Heck, it's not the spying they're taking personally. It's the insult of not bothering to cover your tracks well enough.
To put 20+ bugs in a plane and assume that the Chinese won't find them is simply insulting the Chinese intelligence community and via them, the Chinese government. That's what they're taking personally. It's kind of a "Just how stupid do you think we are?" personal.
That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze
Now to make the obvious WarGames reference:
"Interesting game. The only way to win is not to play."
You know what? That goes double for Russian roulette!
is not that we did it, but that we got caught. China wouldn't pass up on a chance to eavesdrop on our leaders....hell, FRANCE probably wouldn't. But anyone contemplating this kind of move has to consider the risk benefit ratio. What were we risking? Not much. China already knows we spy on them, just as they do us. But getting caught does make us look stupid, and someone's head should role for that.
Ah....but who will Moderate the Meta Moderators?
Oh, come on. Do you know how many Americans live in gutters and under bridges, while our president has already taken two months of vacation in his first year in office? Jesus, where do you get off. You think the president of China shouldn't have a shower or a $5000 TV when he goes to conferences that might help decide the fate of the world? Fuck you.
From what I understand of Chinese culture, America has lost face and now looks incredibly stupid due to being caught; their own people will probably get medals for discovering the bugs.
-Legion
I'm wondering: were this bugs marked "made in USA"?
Seems silly, but (slightly offtopic): years ago, the US tapped a Soviet military communications cable that was running underwater in some bay somewhere near the Asian Soviet coast. Worked well for a while, but when the Soviets finally discovered the tapping device/recorder, it turned out it was marked "Property of the United States government". Somewhat amusing.
You can read all about it in "Blind Man's Bluff" by Sherry Sontag et al.
MSN 8: Now Microsoft even has bugs in their ad campaigns.
We have these things called Facts...
1: The American spy plane was in international waters (as recognized by the rest of the world save China)
2: The pilot of the Chinese plan was killed because he flew too close to a larger plane and ran into it
You DO know that Wen-Ho Lee was effectively exonerated of any charges of espionage, right...? -_- ?
< tofuhead >
It is still the dark of night.
You're joking, right? If I were to come home and find a bug in one of my phones, I would assume that the security of my entire home had been compromised, not just that one phone. Leaving a red herring around to be discovered by the Chinese in this instance would have been a terribly unwise idea.
< tofuhead >
It is still the dark of night.
They probably left some obvious bugs so the Chinese feel like they are securing the plane. You know, leave some to be found, so the *real* bugs aren't messed with.
The first thing which will happen to anyplane supplied to any government is that it will have a heavy maintanance visit. The people doing the work know both planes and bugs...
Boeing would have no reason to bug the Chinese president's plane unless they were ordered to do so by the U.S. government.
Boeing probably have standing orders to bug any plane bought by a government (similarly with Airbus).
.. even software.
Any manufactured item which doesn't have it's guts wide open always have the possibility of stuff like this.
It is actually rather impossible to know wether for instance MS-software does not have government requested back doors.
Free software probably also have some risk, because it would be impossible for someone to be sure that the millions of lines of source code, some which are rather difficult to understand, could not have some small back door.
Ok, I found a web page for it!
From the Associated Press, in response to the Enron ordeal:
[snip]
The spokesman [Ari] said Bush is always ``looking out to protect America's jobs and taxpayers' money.'' He noted, for example, that Bush has talked to China about purchasing a Boeing aircraft.
[snip]
I'm always looking in this paper for the dumb shit they report, but this is got to be the funniest thing I've seen in a while.
Of course they want them to buy Boeing aircraft, the special ones.
I must somewhat defend the CIA or whoever did this. I mean, they spy on us... why not spy on them for a change. I'm sure the Chinese have planted a few bugs here and there.
It's just funny they got caught is all.
Get your Unix fortune now!
Whenever I hear people make this argument, I like to point out that capitalism ain't doing so hot, either. And while communism may have never been implemented properly (and it may, in fact, be impossible to do so), socialism does pretty well for itself.
Che left Cuba because he was a meglomaniac nutcase who was unsatisfied with being revolutionary number two and would prefer to rule south and central America (at least).
Che did not have the opportunity to demnostrate how many overcoats he would wear because the US knew his plans in advance and were waiting for him with a bunch of Marines and some local troops there to take the credit. It is most likely that Castro himself tipped of the US because Che alive was a liability, Che dead could be made a martyr. All the local troops involved in the operation were subsequently assasinated.
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Why in the name of all that is un-american, would the chinese let a bunch of yankies have _anything_ to do with their leader's transport plane? we all know that the american government cannot be trusted, period, (especially since bush came in). surely they can make their own planes and 48" tv's?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Boeing sells to the Chinese gov't. Boeing would love to have insider information on trade decisions. Industrial espionage is much more cutthroat than international espionage; no company (yet) has nukes.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Socialism existed long before Karl Marx. The main influence on Socialism was Robert Owen who was the first capitalist mill owner to realise that making people work 14 hours a day for a pittance might be sub-optimal.
Marx's influence on 'Marxism' is probably less than his influence on capitalism. Lenin reinvented Marxism to the extent that their names were hyphenated together 'Marxist-Leninism', which is to say he the influence of Marx on the USSR was similar to that of Christ on the Catholic church under the Borgias.
Marx's influence on capitalism was profound. In the first place he scared victorian society into social reforms by conving them that the alternative was revolution on the French model. Secondly, Marx provided one of the earliest explanations of how capitalism works. It is not unusual to hear some loony right wing Conservative senator unwittingly repeat a Marxist theory.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
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In other words, the population of Canada.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
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The more time Govenor Bush spends on holiday and the less time he spends in the Whitehouse the better.
The less time he spends working out new schemes to give his cronies corporate welfare and tax breaks the better. His idea of a stimulus bill is giving $254 million tax breaks to Enron and its ilk, even though they haven't paid tax for 4 out of the past 5 years.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
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an you name a single Communist nation that you would hold up as a shining beacon to the rest of the world?
Cuba.
Che left Cuba because he was a meglomaniac nutcase who was unsatisfied with being revolutionary number two and would prefer to rule south and central America (at least).
Fucking bs.
Someome please mod this guy as (-1 McCarthyite Flaimbait).
Maybe it was one of the X10 cameras...?
Anyway, you can get the headboard pics and wavs over at alt.binaries.erotica.amateur.chinese.government
I gave myself to Jesus, but now he never calls
There is a good reason you put 20+ bugs on the aircraft.
You know the Chinese will inspect the aircraft with a fine tooth comb - they aren't stupid. So, one of two possible outcomes:
So the trick is to plant N+M bugs, making sure that they are all so difficult to find that the Chinese are likely to only find N+X bugs, where X<M.
As for the issues of spying - EVERYBODY SPYS ON EVERYBODY ELSE. That's how the game is played. You don't get pissed when you get fragged on "the hill" when you are playing King of the Hill (unless you are a complete lamer), and you don't get pissed when you find you are being spyed on by another contry. However, you DO make political hay of the event - that's part of the game as well.
If we DIDN'T spy on everyone else, if we DIDN'T bitch when we caught them spying on us, then the rest of the world would point at us and make "googley" circles around their temples.
www.eFax.com are spammers
It sounds like somebody has been reading David Gerrold's _War_on_the_Chtorr_ series.
I hear the secrets that you keep
When you're talking in your sleep
...to have joined the Mile High Club much earlier in life, and simply be - ahem - maintaining my membership status while in my eighties. 62 years is too damn long to wait, sorry. Seriously though, if Ben Franklin was bonking french court chicks while a diplomat in France during the Revolutionary War, why can't this guy be enjoying one of the perks of power? Good ole' Ben was, I think, in his seventies at the time.
One last thought: if I were the Chinese premier, I would be flattered the CIA thought I'd still be an active member of the mile-high club.
I'm the stranger...posting to
It seems like the purchasing party always finds bugs in these kinds of deals. In fact, the Chinese probably wouldn't have been happy stripping the plane apart until they found at least one bug.
So, if your the CIA, the obvious thing to do is plant a few bugs were they will be found....and hide the others much better.
Kind thoughts do not change the world
The BBC also has an article about it. Seems fairly legit to me.
"When I grow up, I want to be a weirdo"
First off two wrongs don't make a right. The bigger question to me is why would the US do this to a plane that will be examined from the top down the second it gets delivered? The mostly likely conclusion is to generate more tensions between the US and China.
From the get-go the bush administration has been very adamant on trying to create a new red-scare ostensibly to help defense contracts get through. Think back before 9/11 and look at the various games of cat and mouse the US has been playing with China.
The sad part is that there is lots of trade to be lost by being percieved as the world's biggest spy. Look at the European take on MS and government collusion, Echelon, etc.
In the end this kind of strategy will cost companies revenues, jobs, and negatively affect the economy just to appease the military-industrial complex. In a slumping economy pissing off your potential customers is very bad business and I doubt the big defense contracts are going to make up for what the US is going to lose in trade by its reputation. Even if they did the money comes from American taxes, so its a no-win situation.
This is cold war politics at action. The Russians took this kind of thing as par for the course, but our current administration does not have a firm grasp on how important perception is in the 21st century. The old cold war games may now not be non-event exchanges but could cost us dearly.
They spy on us, we spy on them, and generally it's not a bad thing because it gives insight into whether those you are spying on are posing a real threat or just being belligerent, and prevents either side from preparing surprise attacks. The diplomats know this, which is why you rarely hear of spying - it's just business.
The question you should be asking is, why is China making such a big deal out of this now, when they haven't before? Why were they so aggressive towards that EP-3, and more recently the P-3? What might they have up their sleeve - an actual push on Taiwan, or a military challenge to the US in the Pacific? You should read Jane's and Stratfor's reports on the subject before you go crying on how unfair this is, particularly when the US has strong alliances with South Korea, Taiwan, and the Phillipines, and an obligation to defend Japan.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
There are always bugs in the residences of diplomats and the various cubby holes of mid-range political activity. But at the higher end of the scale. . . That is, if there are bugs on the Chinese version of Air Force One, then you can safely bet that they WILL be found.
Which means that they were meant to be found.
Bugs aren't interesting.
The interesting thing is that it made high profile 'real' news (i.e., the Washington Post).
Why? Easy. -To further the programming of public awareness on both sides of the Atlantic.
-See stories about how China now filters Email. Look for similar material over the next few months.
The highschool play unfolding on the world stage is clearly being performed in order to cast China in the role of the next big bad guy.
Why?
So that when the curtain finally goes up on 'act 2' (-That'd be the whole plot development between Pakistan, India and China, each with nukes, BTW), the U.S. will have paved the way for public sympathy in supporting the country most able to provide, um, oil. And general fear.
I'm betting on concentration camps being open for business in the U.S. in another ten years. Maybe sooner.
Why?
Cuz Fear is Food. Solution? Refuse to play. Fear is a choice. Laugh a lot. Love your friends. Stay healthy. Learn how to avoid the bullshit, in the air, in your food, in the programming. The end of the world, (beginning of the new), only happens once in a very long while; Try to enjoy it!
-Fantastic Lad
Yo misunderstand. Marx says "from each according to ability, to each according to need." The idea is that everybody contibutes whatever they can, and receives whatever they need. A Communist kernel hacker can have a much nicer computer than a Communist carpenter, who in turn has other tools. As for the Chinese president--if a shower in his plane helps him do his very important job, I don't see anything about Communism that should prevent him from having it.
From the BBC:
"The reports in Britain's Financial Times newspaper and the Washington Post quoted Chinese security sources as saying that the tiny, satellite-controlled bugs were discovered when they emitted static during test flights in China last year."
Static? As in they made noises? When last I checked, listening devices have small microphones, not speakers. And while a problem could cause sound to come out of the microphone, would it really be loud enough to hear? And are US listening devices so unreliable that all 20-something malfunctioned in the same way at the same time?
Either the story is made up, China isn't saying how they really found them, or these devices were meant to be found for whatever reason.
At any rate, finding the bugs only when they made their presence known is what happens when you have a system that values loyalty over skill...
Ya know, considering the microphone in the headboard, I guess this adds a whole new twist to the saying "Don't let the bed bugs bite."
;-)
You may all groan now...
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
Looking at the political fallout in the PRC because of this, I wonder if they were really bugs at all.
Here's what we know so far of what happened: A plane that was built in a hangar guarded by the People's Army, put together by workers under constant surveilance by officers in the PRC military, using parts gone over with a fine-toothed comb, had not one, not three, but over twenty "listening devices" planted on it. By all accounts, there is already some big political backlashes working their way through the ranks of the PRC military, with several arrests already made of the soldiers that were supposed to be guarding the plane.
On top of that, we know the plane was supposed to have the best defenses that money could buy. It might very well be the most secure plane in all of the PRC. But now that it's known to have been bugged, can the Party really believe that all the listening devices were removed? In a crisis with the US or one of its allies (like, say, Taiwan), can the plane truly be considered a safe and trusted hideaway for their president?
So will he be using an older, less well-defended plane instead? Wouldn't it be funny if that plane was the one that really had the bugs?
All the "listening devices" on the plane were discovered after somebody reported hearing static. Was that really static, or was it really an MP3 of the Marine Corps Band playing Stars and Stripes Forever, flaunting the PRC with the placement of these "listening devices?"
How would a guard tell what is in that little metal cube - a relay for the cabin lights or a bug? Even assuming that the guard looked over the shoulder of the technician.
So much for the word, "intelligence".
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess? - Joshua (Wargames)
What does Raise the Red Lantern have to do with the revolution? And you listed it twice too, btw.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Che left Cuba was because he felt that the principle "no man shoudl have two coats until..." wasnt really being followed. .... Some people actully practice what they preach. Dont be so cynical.
Yes, and then they get killed.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Deng Xiao Ping once said "There is nothing wrong with getting rich". When the defacto ruler of your country says that, you don't live in a communist country anymore.
When Mao died the CCP leadership basically decided that 'capitalism' was better then 'Maoism' and the related insanity. They now claim only to be 'socialist' and are trying to model their government on the neo-fascist Asian governments in Singapore, South Korea and (formerly) the Republic of China on Taiwan.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Are you NUTS!?. Sure, the USSR may have managed to industrialize quickly, but so did the damn Nazis. That isn't much of a statement in and of itself. Stalin's Russia was a brutal nation and loaded with oppression. Inside and outside of the government. Probably as close to Orwell's '1984' as any society so far.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Dude, cuba trades with every other contry in the world. Not trading with the US couldn't possibly be hurting them that much.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
hahaha
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
The chinese government hasn't claimed to be communist since Mao died. Read a history book!
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
The dumb shits in North Korea?
The guy's name is Kim Jong-il.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
As of now China only has a few nuclear weapons. Mostly just a 'see we have nukes too' kinda thing. China basically said that if the US goes ahead with their missile shield, they'll start building more. In a couple of years china will have a whole new lineup of modern, shield penetrating technology.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
The government of Taiwan calls itself the "Republic of China", and at one point claimed to be the legitimate government of the whole thing. It's easy to see how people with the inelegance level of Janet Reno could be confused.
(Also, there are three ethnic groups in Taiwan, Taiwanese, who are Han Chinese who immigrated in the 1600s. Chinese or "mainlanders" who moved over in the 1940s when the communists took over, and promptly took over the island. And 'natives' who would be like Native Americans here)
Oh, and btw Anti-communism in the Kuomintang government that took over Taiwan in the 1940s would have made Joe McCarthy look like Karl Marx. But they did have a lot more to worry about : P
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Boeing didn't retofit the plane. Three smaller contract companies did! Boeing made the plane, but they didn't furnish it. And they would never had had a chance to put bugs in.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
And of course there's the 1950's era cyborg cat we tried to cook up. Didn't work to well though.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
jails and murders it's own citizens in record numbers
Actually, the US just surpassed Russia in the percentage of population jailed, making us in yet another field 'number one!' We are way, way ahead of China as far as jailing goes. Btw, Texas kills more people as a percentage of the population then China does.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Arg! Boeing didn't do the refit job. Several US contractors did. Quoth the artical "Dee Howard Aircraft Maintenance L.P., Gore Design Completions Ltd., Rockwell Collins Inc. and Avitra Aviation Services Ltd., a Singapore firm, " Also, They purchaced the plain from Delta Airlines, not Boeing.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
No, the message we sent was more like "We can't install bugs for shit."
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Why is it that people can base such strong convictions on such stupid foundations. The static mentioned could have been radio static, or static electricity. audio static would have been the last thing I would have thought they meant. Haven't you ever heard the stewardess say 'turn off all cell phones and electrical devices during takeoff' before? It's not because they make white noise in the cabin that distracts the pilot.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
The US should have delivered the plane as parts for them to assemble.
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
With all the Cameras going up in the world to look in on the general population, why should the governments feel left out?
I mean, if having cameras on the general population helps to curb crime, then imagine the crime reduction we can all experience from making the government internals public broadcast.
and think what we could do with the savings!
personally I'd like to see a purly Canadian (ie, non shared) monarchy in Canada.
What! Why on earth would you want to return to an archaric leadership concept. Monarchies represent a past littered with cruelity, poverty, slavery, oppresion, injustice . . . well you get the idea. Time to let it die. The French had the right idea a few hundred years ago.
A bit like the modern US of A then ...
A vapid swipe with no justification.
Oh, and the French went on an imperialistic rampage throughout Europe after toppling the monarchy, with associated cruelity, poverty, slavery, oppresion and injustice.
Actually the French wrongly went from a Monarch to an Emperor. Bad move.
It should be noted that Napoleon did destroy entrenched feudalism thru out Europe. He did grant constitutitions and instantiated formal law codes where none existed before.
However, the point of this discussion that privilege and power by birth is absurd and wrong. If you prefer to be ruled over by an aristocratic class hurry, get your passport ready, there are a still a few more ruling monarchies around, but not for long.
All totalitarian style governments are unjust and immoral and fortunately fast becoming obsolete. The Monarchy is one of this set and should be relegated to the reject pile of history.
Last October, days before its planned maiden voyage, Chinese military communications experts discovered numerous high-tech listening devices planted inside the plane, according to Chinese and Western sources, who said they had been told of this by Chinese military officers and aviation officials. The plane was grounded and has not been flown since it was delivered.
Ahh... let's see... Chinese and Western sources heard it from some Chinese military officers and aviation officials.
Definitely must be the truth.
I'm not saying they didn't find them, but I haven't seen any pictures, or anything other than hearsay.
Remember, this is being put out by the same government that did wonderful things like the Tiananmen Square massacre, countless human-rights violations, more executions than all other countries combined last year, and other fine things.
Personally, I hope we've got listening devices planted everywhere we can in their government.
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
You missed Australia.
Her title changes with where you are. In Canada,
her name is "Elizabeth II, by Grace of God, Queen of Canada, Queen of the United Kingdom and Queen of her other realms and territories across the seas"
In the UK she's "Elizabeth II, by Grace of God Queen of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Norther Ireland, Defender of the Faith.
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
Here's a good article that describes the extensive security measures taken by the chinese during the retrofitting. For example...
- chinese experts swept the plane for bugs 3 times before the plane left san antonio for beijing
- a 6 foot chain link fence around the plain guarded 24 hours/day by 25 chinese troops
- close supervision of work (i.e. someone looking over your shoulder all the time)
- control of tools and equipment brought on to the plane.
The article ends up suggesting that maybe the chinese did it... after all, 21 chinese airforce people were arrested.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets