Where Did All The Online Bargains Go?

cornflux writes: "There's something I've wondered recently -- 'Where did all the good deals go?' It seems I'm not the only one -- Business 2.0 has an article about the noticable lack of bargains available online, today. The author covers obvious reasons (dried up VC, need for real profit) and some others (pseudo-price fixing). The one thing that was missed is the ever-increasing number of morons who will pay full-retail price + 20% for things on eBay." Note that the piece is largely theoretical -- I've found consistently better prices on the web, even recently, than I have in-store for electronic goods, as well as obscure DVDs which I couldn't find locally anyhow.

Comments

A fool and his money are soon parted.

[Tuxinatorium]

That explains everything. There are too many idiots on Ebay, and people too lazy to comparison shop.

Re:A fool and his money are soon parted.

[e1en0r]

The problem with eBay is that the morons get into these insane bidding wars days before the auction closes, which invariably raises the price to ridiculous levels. I stopped buying from eBay for that very reason. The only time I'd ever bid on something was a minute before the auction closed. It should be obvious that only bidding in the closing minutes of the auction and only raising your bid the minimum amount would be the sensible thing to do and would get you a much better price than consistantly bidding and raising the price for several days. I wish that they'd figure this out for themselves, but I guess it'll be tough getting anyone to spread the word because everyone that knows this is probably smart enough to take advantage of it and sell their junk on eBay.

Re:A fool and his money are soon parted.

[guinsu]

Actually, electronics consistently sell above retail if you are willing to put pictures and html in your auction (i.e. copy and past from the mfg's page for the product). I have a friend who consistently sells dvd players, digital cameras and other newer electronics for more than he paid for them.

Re:A fool and his money are soon parted.

[Laplace]

A perfect example of using different keywords on e-bay can be found on the auctions for Nikon FM2n cameras. This camera belongs to the FM2 family, but the only cosmetic difference is an 'N' in front of the serial number. The technology inside of the camera is slightly different, and allows for a 250th of a second flash sync instead of a 200th of a second sync. Unless you are a collector, the FM2n is more desireable to have. On e-bay several people sell FM2n's, but list them as FM2. The prices for these bodies are consistently lower than for their identical counterparts listed with the "correct" keywords. Check it out for yourself.

Re:A fool and his money are soon parted.

[Anonymous Coward]

GREG'S 10 (because-it's-always-ten) LAWS OF EBAY

This is not a parody. I am, unfortunately, serious.

(1) A well maintained second-hand item is more valuable than the same
item brand new.

(2) 10% off list price is a deal--no matter that shipping costs
20% more.

(3) A picture is worth a thousand pennies.

(4) Feedback is more important than profit.

(5) Any item may be rented for the price of shipping one-way, but
BEWARE! Sometimes this may garner profit.

(6) It is better to pay 30% more and win a six-way bidding war than to
be the only bidder on another listing of an identical item.

(7) An item listed for $1 sells at $15. An item listed at $10
sells at $10.

(8) An unsorted collection "found in my attic" is more valuable than
one professionally appraised.

(9) Categories are for weenies.

(10) 90% of all items sold on eBay were previously sold on eBay.

Re:A fool and his money are soon parted.

[ncc74656]

That explains everything. There are too many idiots on Ebay, and people too lazy to comparison shop.

Most of it is people getting caught up in a bidding frenzy, as if an eBay auction is some sort of game. People seem to forget that the idea behind eBay was to uncover good deals on stuff, not to let the price spiral out of control because "I've just gotta win this."

I think people's unwillingness to keep this in mind has worked to my favor in some circumstances, though, so I'm not complaining too much about other people's stupidity. :-) A few years ago, I sold a Mustek flatbed scanner. I had had it for about a year and had just replaced it with an HP ScanJet 4p. I bought the scanner new for about $270 and would've been happy to get $100 for it...it got the job done, but it was slow as hell (despite the SCSI interface). IIRC, it got bid up to over $200. I wouldn't have paid that much for it at that time (hell, the HP only cost me $100 as a demo item), but someone was crazy enough to do so. (Maybe it got bid up like that because it was in the original box, but selling a scanner in its original box isn't exactly like selling (for instance) an Enterprise Christmas tree ornament ("NCC-1701...no bloody A, B, C, or D") in its original box.)

Re:A fool and his money are soon parted.

[shayne321]

It should be obvious that only bidding in the closing minutes of the auction and only raising your bid the minimum amount would be the sensible thing to do and would get you a much better price than consistantly bidding and raising the price for several days.

Actually, there's an easier way than that to avoid paying outrageous prices for stuff on ebay.. When bidding simply figure out what the item is worth to YOU and put that in as your bid. Ebay will automatically raise your bid in the minimum increment as other people bid until they outbid what you're willing to pay. If that happens just move on to another auction... One thing I've found that helps is pick an odd amount for your maximum bid.. For example, if you're willing to pay $100 for something, enter your bid as $102. Most people will have $100 as their "too high" line and bow out of the bidding. I've won several auctions that way.

Shayne

The bloom is off the rose

[Anonymous Coward]

Too many folks havre found out (as I did) that selling on the net is a good way to waste time and lose money. You run into nut cases, bozos and all the rest who think that because you sold them something (at around cost) that you now owe them the sun the world and the stars in support. The net was and is a good place to sell or buy a commodity item with no support included.. It is also a good place to find the obscure (as you have noted), but for bargains on things that need support, this guy isn't going to be the seller.

Re:The bloom is off the rose

[arkanes]

Giving both seller and buyer benefit of the doubt, selling used games is not warez. Even selling game and keeping a copy for yourself doesn't make the sold game warez.

I disagree

[abrink]

I disagree with this, if you shop around, you can still get great deals on tons of electronics/computer equipment...more so then you can in your local Best Buy or Circuit City. You also don't have to mess with annoying salesmen trying to sell you things you do not want.

Just my 2 cents.

Re:I disagree

[garcia]

like when at Xmas time Best Buy had blocked off access to one side of each isle (I assume for two reasons; block access routes for shop lifters, and to trap your ass in the isle w/annoying motherfuckers trying to sell you shit).

That's the one great thing about shopping online. I don't have to put up w/Jeff Cerullo telling me the 300 greatest things about the 300mhz Celeron Compaq 6788.

I go in, I search for what I want and I buy it. I usually still save about $20 to $50 from what I would pay in Best Buy.

www.pricewatch.com is what I normally use for most computer shit. I use Amazon.com to get most of my obscure books, and I shop at Meijer for my DVDs. They beat Amazon's prices before shipping and usually have a decent selection of movies the day they come out.

Re:I disagree

[FooDog]

I don't know what Best Buy YOU guys are going to, but it certainly isn't MINE. If I want to speak with an employee at MY Best Buy, I have really search for one, and hope that I'm not Interrupting said employee's all important conversation about his "bitchin'" stereo and the "totally awesome party" he went to that weekend that actually had "beer". Then I ask my question and am treated to a desultory "I don't know." I've actually had frustrated people in the computer section come and ask ME questions about stuff. I should send Best Buy a bill for my services.

Manufacturer price fixing

[s20451]

I've found consistently better prices on the web, even recently, than I have in-store for electronic goods

There was a related article in the NY times this week about electronics manufacturers who inflate their list prices so that retailers can easily offer their goods at a "bargain".

Re:Manufacturer price fixing

[Froze]

After reading the times article in the parent post, I had an epiphany. What if the retailer was straight up honest about their pricing?

Here is my axample, First they tell you their price (par for the course) then they tell you their markup from *their cost* (perhaps a note about cost of running the business, with a reference to their standard markup).

Then the markup would not be based on some artificial standard, but on a real hard dollar value of the product and the cost of getting it to the consumer. Then you would really know if your were getting a bargain or just their regular sale price. No hype, no sales pitch, just a smart business with informed customers.

With this kind of honesty, a business would have my loyalty.

Re:Manufacturer price fixing

[Matey-O]

Here is my axample, First they tell you their price (par for the course) then they tell you their markup from *their cost* (perhaps a note about cost of running the business, with a reference to their standard markup).

Then the markup would not be based on some artificial standard, but on a real hard dollar value of the product and the cost of getting it to the consumer. Then you would really know if your were getting a bargain or just their regular sale price. No hype, no sales pitch, just a smart business with informed customers.

That would then be followed by a larger business selling the same product at a loss to undercut the competition.

The lemminglike masses would throng to the cheaper product because money is money and lemmings, as a population, have no loyalty.

Be honest now, how many of you signed up for the eService to only get the $2 DVD then canned the account and never bought from there again?

There are examples where loyalty can be depended on, (Harley Davidson and Chevy Corvette have a very loyal following.) but there are very few businesses that can operate that way.

Re:Manufacturer price fixing

[Registered Coward v2]

Here is my axample, First they tell you their price (par for the course) then they tell you their markup from *their cost* (perhaps a note about cost of running the business, with a reference to their standard markup).

Then the markup would not be based on some artificial standard, but on a real hard dollar value of the product and the cost of getting it to the consumer. Then you would really know if your were getting a bargain or just their regular sale price. No hype, no sales pitch, just a smart business with informed customers.

The problems are:

1. There is no real direct link with price to cost, other than companies want the maximum margin possible. Pricing depends on what someone is willing to pay, not how much it costs to produce a product.

2. There is a point where the cost (time and money) of price shopping outweighs the savings. As a result, there is no real reason for companies to cut prices to the lowest possible point, since the chance taht they'l get an extra sale doesn't provide more additional revenue than a slightly higher price (and fewer sales).

A stores goal is to maximize their profit - not give you the best possible price.

Re:Manufacturer price fixing

[nelsonal]

Many large retailers are public companies, and as such they have to release financial information about their business. In this information is their revenue, their Cost of Goods Sold, sometimes abreviated as COGS, which is their cost, Selling General & Administrative, abriviated as SG&A which will usually contain most of their costs in the markup this usually leaves operating profit, which they subtract their interest and other expenses from leaving net profit. So while this does not show the markup of the item you are buying, but it does give an average. Some will also break their revenue and costs out by there segments, search for segment in the 10-Q. All of these are available here.

Re:Manufacturer price fixing

[vondo]

The NYT article concerns electronics and implies no one pays retail. Some of the items there are big ticket A/V products, and I assure you, it does get sold at retail at quality A/V shops, just not at Best Buy (which is, after all, a *discounter* as is Sears, etc).

Given the choice of paying $3500 online or at Best Buy or $4000 at a home theater shop, a buyer should seriously consider paying the $4000. The product may be the same, but the service isn't.

Re:Manufacturer price fixing

[Ybrog]

To be honest, I don't want the service. I want to buy quality products that don't break. I can get them cheaper at Best Buy and Circuit City than Joe's TV Shop. For the difference in cost between the *discounter* and the retailer, I can buy a nice extended warranty which usually has better coverage than that service you want me to pay for.

Besides, Best Buy employees generally stay out of the way so you can make purchases...they don't hover around looking for a commision.

Travel Deals

[kninja]

There are a lot of good hotel rates to be found, and some flights are offered cheaper online too. I think this article is talking more about material goods, and not as much about services.

No True Just need to look

[bstadil]

Try and pick any electronics in your local CompUSA or Fry then go to PriceGrabber or my favorite Pricewatch and you will see there is plenty of good deals on the net.
Often you have to go thru a special Netpage or input a comment for getting the PriceWatch price. I find it a bit annoying but understand the reasoning.

Re:No True Just need to look

[Seanasy]

After going to Pricewatch, make sure you look up the business on ResellerRatings.com.

With few exceptions, the price is proportional to rating. The lowest prices on Pricewatch are almost always from disreputable resellers.

Umm, plenty of deals, try the deal sites

[JoshMKiV]

Perhaps you have never been to Fatwallet.com or Anandtech's hot deals forum?

I think if you walked away with an Empeg car unit for $199 rather than the original $1k++ pricetag, you might feel otherwise.

Some things are still cheap.

[VA Porware]

Computer hardware is still priced much better online than it is in local stores. That might be because I live in a smaller city, with no large cities nearby, I don't know. Not only is it cheaper, but I can find any parts I need, unlike the local stores, which carry only pre-assembled crap from Compaq and the like. I don't know what I'd do without NewEgg.

Ebay rules

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I just recently sold a Western Digital HD 80 GB (7200 rpm) for $179. The cost to me through a "HOT DEAL" was only $80 (after rebates).

As the saying goes, if you take a dump in a box and charge $5 on ebay for it, is it really worth $5?

People shop online for convenience, not price

[aquarian]

That's the heart of the matter. Though a typical Slashdot user's online shopping probably consists of hunting down deals on RAM through Priceline, the average shopper is simply looking for convenience and selection. They're willing to pay a little more for it, too. This mirrors the rest of the catalog shopping world- which the online shopping world is just another part of. And surprise, the online winners, with very few exceptions, are the same companies who have been doing mail order successfully for the last 20 years- Lands End, LLBean, etc.

Re:People shop online for convenience, not price

[Anonymous Coward]

Conveninece is an understatement. Most people aren't going to buy things online yet for several reasons:

* You can't touch them. Would you buy a mattress online, for instance?
* You don't necessarily get enough information.
* It's harder to return.
* It's not necessarily cheaper, either.
* Searching for a product all to often yields too many results, not to few, most of which aren't relevant.

E-Commerce, ebusiness, e-whatever... It's a really fancy, sophistacted modern day catalog ordering system.

Re:People shop online for convenience, not price

[Snowfox]

You're overgeneralizing in your subject line there. People shop online for a number of reasons.

I spent just over $24k online in the last year, and price was always the first thing I looked at. I do still buy things locally, but if I can save a buck by buying online, I'll do it.

Convenience probably ranks 3rd or 4th. Some things are so esoteric that you can't find them locally, but that may be part of convenience. My big number two is that I'll always go with a smaller merchant, or a merchant known for providing good service. Part of me constantly roots for the underdog, so if I can pass on the big online and local retailers and still get a price within a few bucks of what I'd have paid, I'll do it every time.

From my POV, good riddance.

[Pinball Wizard]

The online bargains were another symptom of the dot-coms that are mostly gone now. They were there because these people would do just about anything to bring people to their web sites. In other words, they lost money on every sale but made up for it in volume.

The death of these businesses has been a good thing for my online bookstore, which is an addition to a business that has been around for twenty years. Now we can reasonably compete with fair prices, whereas before it was hard because of all the damn giveaways and businesses selling merchandise at a loss.

Its not a good thing for the economy in general if you have a bunch of businesses blowing through venture capital by selling their merchandise at a loss or giving it away. But that was the business plan for a great many merchants trying to establish themselves online. Good riddance, I say.

Re:From my POV, good riddance.

[miracle69]

In other words, they lost money on every sale but made up for it in volume.

What you meant to say was that they lost money on every sale and compounded it with volume.

Re:From my POV, good riddance.

[Jeremi]

No, it's not bad for the economy in general. It's bad for the stupid venture capitalists, and good for the consumers. It all evens out.

It's bad for businesses based on a sustainable business model (because they can't compete with products given away at a loss). Soon after it is bad for consumers, because (a) the dot-com is out of business (for obvious reasons), and (b) the competition is also out of business (they couldn't compete and make a profit). At this point, the only place the consumer can buy from is the MegaCorps that were able to afford to compete at a loss for a long time. Now the MegaCorp can raise its prices as much as it likes, since it has no surviving competition.

here are so many idiots with lots of money out there, maybe I should start selling miraculous "herbal medicine" (aka grass) on eBay. There's nothing wrong with exploiting morons. They're morons, it's their own fault for buying that crap.

While nice in theory, this attitude doesn't work in real life. That's why we (in the USA, anyway) have agencies like the FDA.

Re:From my POV, good riddance.

[Tuxinatorium]

While nice in theory, this attitude doesn't work in real life. That's why we (in the USA, anyway) have agencies like the FDA [fda.com].

The FDA does not regulate herbals. That is why they are all required to have a disclaimer that says "These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to prevent, diagnose, treat, or cure any disease"
Someone sould sell ground up acorns and say it reduces the risk of cancer, and the FDA wouldn't do anything about it. In fact, most popular herbals are BS scams like that.

Re:From my POV, good riddance.

[stripes]

(b) the competition is also out of business (they couldn't compete and make a profit). At this point, the only place the consumer can buy from is the MegaCorps that were able to afford to compete at a loss for a long time. Now the MegaCorp can raise its prices as much as it likes, since it has no surviving competition.

That depends stongly on the barrier to entry for the busness. If it is high like designing a CPU, then yes a monopoly can exist for quite some time (esp. if there are complex patents involved). For selling the same kind of stuff online you would in a local shop, the barrier is quite low.

As long as someone thinks there is enough of a chance to make money to risk a $100,000 or so you can build an online store (or far less, depending). Or someone that has a real store front may do an online version for far far less.

I don't think we are in danger of a monopoly on online camera, book, CD, and other random crap stores.

Where Did All The Online Bargains Go?

[Rayonic]

To JCPenny this Saturday and Sunday!

Everything in the store is marked down 0.05%!

(no, that is not a typo)

Sounds about right...

[xonker]

You can still get some decent deals on line (Computergeeks.com, anyone?) but overall you're not going to save a great deal on the MSRP online -- unless you're bargain hunting or the site is running a promotion.

Companies finally realized that they can't survive on razor-thin and non-existant margins. The stores that thrive on the 'Net will be ones that offer things that can't be easily found locally -- like the stuff at PCMods, ThinkGeek and all kinds of collector goods. It's also easier to set up a distribution system online for products that don't have a wide appeal, so only producing and shipping a small number makes sense. (Computer badges come to mind...)

Playing the pricing game doesn't really help in the long run -- the stores don't make enough to survive, and it hurts the companies who make the products. If people get used to the idea, for example, that they can buy Red Hat at cost they'll be reluctant to pay full price -- ever. If online stores run enough promotions, people simply learn to wait for the next deep discount instead of buying when they want the product.

I still prefer to do my shopping for many things online (books, computer parts) but I'd rather browse when looking for CDs or clothing.

price and perceived value.

[Alien54]

In other words, the market of potential buyers is growing, but prices are leveling off. Wood postulates that the market "depth" is increasing, meaning the Internet is attracting more -- and more sophisticated -- buyers and sellers. The result is that prices quickly reach the optimal market level, and items rarely go for much above or below that price point.

I can remember a lady at a coffee shop who started selling more cakes of a specific kind when she raised the price. Same product. The perception of the product was that it must not be any good if it was being sold cheaply, but it was alright if it came close to the expected price point.

Of course, with databases, etc, you can quickly find the optimal price point for almost any product online, from a sellers point of view.

Of course, experts know how to do better.

Re:price and perceived value.

[inerte]

I know of a study that researchers went to a shopping mall with two jars. One was full of cookies, and the other had only one or two.

They were the same cookie, but people answered that the ones that came from the jar with less cookies were more delicious.

That's a classic for anyone who went to college and studied Advertisement (like I did for 2 years), but it's always worth to remember.

And of course, you can enlarge this 'rule' to several other areas. Diamonds/gold are expensive because they are rare. And brunnete women are hotter in Sweden because the predominant feminine type there is blond.

Anyway, the article is temporal. Sophisticated customers is, if true, at maximum, a temporary effect. More and more 'common' people are using the internet, and this trend will only continue to rise in the future.

And you know, despite what many people think, most rich people do NOT spend a lot of money. On contrary, they SAVE a lot. There are a lot of more millionaries in the world than the guy from your school that got a expensive car from his daddy. And the tip Nr. 1 from these abundant but hidden rich people is: "Save every penny".

I think the study made by Charles Wood had such fallacy on it, and what in fact happened is that he justified the higher prices with a limited cause, and not the contrary. That's usually not how decent social researchs are done.

Re:price and perceived value.

[Registered Coward v2]

Diamonds/gold are expensive because they are rare

Actually, gold isn't rare, it just costs more to extract it from seawater than it's worth. Aluminium used to be more valuable than gold, but once a way was discovered (by two people, independently, at about the same time) to cheaply extract it from bauxite, its value dropped.

Diamond supply is similarly well controlled - primarily because the suppliers have more to gain by higher prices than by flooding the market.

Oil producers, however, stand to gain more by cheating on qoutas, which is why it's hard to maintain cartel prices.

And brunnete women are hotter in Sweden because the predominant feminine type there is blond.

Sounds like an arbitrage opportunitty - we ship you brunettes, you ship us blondes.

Re:price and perceived value.

[xonker]

Actually, diamonds aren't as rare as they'd have you think -- the supply is simply restricted so that demand is artificially higher than supply.

And yes, two months' salary is too much to pay, thank you very much...

(I recall an advertisement that aired several years ago that showed a woman receiving a diamond ring, but only in silhouette. As she was being presented with the diamond, they cut to a close-up that looked very much like she was getting ready to perform oral sex on the presenter of the ring... Doesn't take a genius to figure out the point of that commercial...)

Re:price and perceived value.

[Saeger]

Maybe this is what you were thinking of?

Classic. :-)

--

Pricewatch

[Apreche]

www.pricewatch.com
www.buy.com
and sometimes amazon.com

I buy books at amazon and it's cheaper than the bookstore, even with shipping. The others have the cheapest computer stuff around.

The only reason to buy something on ebay is if you can't get it anywhere else. Like collector's items, or imported goods. And in those cases it's ok to pay over retail price.

There have always been idiots who would pay twice as much to get the newest video game system the first day it came out. But now there is a place in which they can actually get it.

The internet still has bargains, you just have to know where to look.

Why aren't there any bargains online?

[Anonymous Coward]

How about paying $30 for shipping a dimm? Maybe people got fed up with that shit. Lots of places have 'low prices' until you get to the checkout, and there's an ass-reaming shipping and handling charge. It's usually easy to tell: they won't quote shipping "until you finalize your order" because they know you won't bother. They hope to catch the "oops, I didn't read that" crowd.

Re:Why aren't there any bargains online?

[phaze3000]

What ever happened to "reputable" companies with "honest prices"?

Most of those sorts of places died out about the same time as Queen Victoria..

Market stabalization

[standards]

Retailers just can't sell at a lost. Their is a lot of competition. In addition, product manufacturers can't sell items at a loss.

But when the market is in flux, all rules are off. Retailers may sell at a loss, and manufacturers might "dump" product onto the marketplace (in lieu of sending it to a landfill, as they often do).

With the Internet economy what it is, retailers aren't willing to sell at a loss for market share, and the tech economy is in a somewhat conservative state (for now).

So no agressive price cuts, but no outrageous prices.

Except for MS Office, of course.

true about the eBay buyers

[bfire]

I get about a buyer every two weeks in eBay that buys one of my items for twice retail. However, judging by the high number page views (but not bids) in those auctions, it is clear that most people comparison-shop agressively and don't blindly bid on the first search result.

I also agree about finding less bargains around, as it's been hard to find new sources of eBay resellable items on the web.

Re:Canada. Ever consider...

[cperciva]

statehood?

Quite a few people have considered it. However, most Canadians have too much respect for human rights and international law to join a nation which routinely ignores both.

(And if Canada did merge with the US, it would do so as 13 new states, not as one. Without the unifying influence of being "not American" Canada would fall apart entirely.)

It's just evolution

[BlindSpot]

I see this as a sign that online shopping is starting to become less of a novelty and more of an everyday thing.

Lots of those online price breaks were to encourage people to try online shopping. As more and more people start to buy online, the need to offer incentives goes down and the need to actually profit from online business goes up. It's a classic ploy that even Homer Simpson recognized: "Get us addicted then jack up the price!"

As for the auction sites, it shows to me that sellers are starting to take them seriously. In the past people might have put up a bit of old junk to see how the auction site worked. If it sold for next to nothing, that was okay - chock it up to research. Now, sellers know there are people out there willing to pay for hard-to-find, high demand items, and they set their minimum bids accordingly.

Of course this quasi-recession we're in isn't helping matters, but I think that's only a small part of it. To me this is just the natural evolution of doing business online.

Re:Canada

[savaget]

Canadian online book prices are not as good as they used to be since Indigo has bought Chapters, making them an online book store monopoly.

ebay

[Anonymous Coward]

I have found many good things on ebay for cheap like
30 port 10/100 Rackmount switch = 30 bucks
complete HP Jornada still in box = 100 bucks
it takes alot of looking around but if you spend enough time waiting and watching you can find a heck of alot for nothing near the retail price.

Re:eBay

[Skyshadow]

I've seen both sides of this.

On one hand, when I sold my 1st Edition AD&D DragonLance Campaign hardcover, I got *triple* the cover price (I can't imagine this was collectible, folks). On the other hand, I just participated in an auction for a new set of taillights for my car (don't let the neighborhood kids ride their bikes near your car) and had it bid up well over the MSRP for replacement parts from your local Ford dealer.

People on eBay ain't so bright. Moral of the story? Sell on eBay, don't buy.

Re:eBay

[stripes]

Sell on eBay, don't buy

Once in a while you can get good deals on eBay, as in cheaper then retail, and cheaper the half.com. The "trick" is just to not bid higher then you can get it elsewhere. Well the other part of the trick is that you really will very seldom get anything this way. So far I have gotten a a bookshelf full of books and a few videos (about photography, which seem to be out of "print").

I have bid on a lot of things where the price just goes way too high, like a used EF75-300mm IS lens that went for $470. KEH.com sold it used for $415 with a return policy and all, B&H sold it new for (I think) $450. Of corse it turns out the lens sucks (all of them, not just mine) and I should have bought the 100-500L IS for $1500 or so :-)

The real moral? Photography is an expensive hobby.

(P.S. ofoto.com does digital prints at 30% of the cost of local stores, so there are clearly bargains left)

Pay more for quality

[kenneth_martens]

The truth of the matter is, more people are willing to pay extra to get quality. Case in point: my first online purchase (2 years ago) was a CD burner, and I bought it from the retailer who had the cheapest price. Three months later, still without my CD burner, the company (TheBigStore.com) was out of business, and my $200 was gone.

Now when I buy online, I don't even bother looking for the cheapest price, because I want to know I will recieve my product. I order from reputable big-name companies such as Amazon and WalMart.

Re:Pay more for quality

[ncc74656]

The truth of the matter is, more people are willing to pay extra to get quality. Case in point: my first online purchase (2 years ago) was a CD burner, and I bought it from the retailer who had the cheapest price. Three months later, still without my CD burner, the company (TheBigStore.com) was out of business, and my $200 was gone.

You never just buy from whoever has the cheapest Pricewatch entry. I've bought plenty of stuff from vendors who list their prices with Pricewatch, but I always cross-reference a vendor with its score at ResellerRatings to get a feel for whether the company in question is on the up-and-up. Since I've started checking prices this way, I've gotten reasonable prices and I've never been burned.

I had a set of scripts that would search Pricewatch for an item and ResellerRatings for vendor scores, and then merge the two together so that you'd get scores alongside prices. I'm not sure if it'd still work, since it relies on screen-scraping (HTML parsing, really) to extract data from the two websites. (A quick check indicated that the sites have changed enough that the scripts would need to be fixed.)

Market Trends

[Afreet1]

From what I have seen, the trends of online retailers seems to mimic their brick and mortar counterparts.

What I mean by this is that for high turnover items (moves fast into and off of the virtual shelves in terms of sales volume), like new software, DVDs, PS2 games and CD-R blanks, will be almost identically priced. In fact the real storefront is sometimes cheaper when you take taxes/shipping into account. (note: this doesn't take into account rebates)

For items that aren't as fast to sell like older computer hardware or even new hardware that has a fast obsolescence track, online stores have the advantage for their own savings since it doesn't cost them as much to store the old inventory. In some cases the retail environment will be in such a rush to get rid of the equipment they will drop prices a lot lower than they should, just to clear space. Couple this with the fact that as a full chain of stores they have better bargaining power with the manufacturers and can get lower initial prices.

What this means is that for normal transactions an online store can sell older stuff for cheaper and sustain that price, but when new product lines come out, the physical storefront may or may not have a greater discount, depending on how well they manager their warehouses.

Basically we are in a situation where all of the discounts of online business are lost on the items that we buy the most, and they no longer have a nest egg of excess cash to pay for significant price differences.

Impact of RIAA?

[AndyMan!]

One thing the author didn't touch on is the power of the RIAA. I wonder what kind of leway the RIAA gives distributers in pricing CD's? Rather then looking at CD's, the author should've discussed home electronics. Bizrate is a great example of bargains available online. I once bought a Sony camcorder that retails at the Sony Store for $1,800 - I bought it through Bizrate for $800 - a whole $1000 cheaper!

eBay

[Malc]

I've been looking for a Philips Pronto remote control recently. I've participated in several eBay.ca auctions, but everytime people have bidded the item up to US$190... why bother considering there is a "buy it now" option for $199 with a bonus leather case, or it can be purchased from the seller's web side for $189?! Some people really need to be hit around the head with a clue stick. I guess the bidder's are more interested in participating in an auction than actually get a good bargain.

Changes in Pricewatch policy!!

[bstadil]

Your comment "I have noticed lately pricewatch.com isn't the best place to go online for the best price", might be true but this must be the doing of the retailers not Pricewatch themselves. They would have no interest nor means to hike the price. They would have all the interest in the world to see lower prices as this is the sole reason for their existence.

Morons? Trolls running /. now?

[fleener]

The one thing that was missed is the ever-increasing number of morons who will pay full-retail price + 20% for things on eBay."

Bypassing the obvious trollish nature of the word "morons," allow me to educate you. People who live in rural areas cannot walk down to the corner Wal*Mart, Kmart or Target to buy cheap crap. Contrary to popular believe, box stores have not infiltrated every city and town yet. Some people have to drive 100 miles or 6 hours, whichever is more inconvenient.

Much of this cheap crap is not sold online, so these people must use sites like Ebay to buy products that are otherwise unavailable to them. Paying more on Ebay is cheaper than the alternative.

Re:Morons? Trolls running /. now?

[cduffy]

If it's a broken video card that was no longer in production, someone could very easily have had a need for it. I work for an embedded systems company, and we not infrequently need some old PCI video card (no longer in mass production) because we want to be sure our drivers work with its chipset (which may still be used in an embedded-systems context, even if no longer found on consumer hardware). We have hardware-savvy folks on hand -- if desoldering a RAM chip and replacing it needs doing, so be it -- but just getting the raw hardware can be difficult at times.

Just because your trash is another man's treasure, don't assume that man's an idiot.

Re:Morons? Trolls running /. now?

[elmegil]

You mean the alternative of buying the product at full list (instead of full list + 20%) from an ONLINE RETAILER?

Who's the moron again?

Re:Morons? Trolls running /. now?

[fleener]

Fraud is a completely separate issue.

For you, Ebay is the worst place to buy retail. For me, if I cannot buy a product from a local retailer (e.g., anywhere in my town), then an online purchase makes sense. For many, it's simpler to buy via Ebay than to search dozens of retail sites for each individual product. Why? Personally, I get far better service from individuals than I do from e-commerce companies. Sad, but true. (I've never been defrauded, but I also don't buy things costing hundreds of dollars. Major purchases are still worth driving a few hours to the nearest brick-and-mortar retailer.)

eBayers will bid on anything, even an empty box!

[studboy]

There was a spate of people posting "XBox box"es on ebay -- the description clearly said "this is the box the XBox came in, the console is sold seperately." Now, I can see one or two people bidding or something, but these auctions, and there were quite a few, got over a *dozen* bids each! Into the several hundred dollar range! For an empty box!

This got a lot of press at fark.com, so people started posting spam auctions. One was for a normal carboard box with an X posted on it, saying "this is not an XBox". It went to $130 until ebay pulled it!

The State of DVD

[Murdock037]

The one thing for which I ever shopped online was DVDs, and the market has simply DRIED UP.

I used to be particularly fond of reel.com and dvdexpress.com. The former offered some really spectacular deals-- mostly "loss leaders" on major titles (I remember getting "The Matrix" for $12.49) so they could attract the unsure, never-shopped-online buyer, particularly on pre-orders. (It was the equivalent of CompUSA offering a $500 computer on the front page of their flyer, so that the casual customer might be tempted to wander in.) The latter site had generally better prices on the everyday titles. Comparison shop and you'd find great deals, typically better than with retail stores (even with shipping factored in).

The situation these days is terrible. Reel went bust and became a front for buy.com. Buy offered less impressive prices, but it was still sometimes better than shopping in the "real" world. That fell through, or something, and now Reel is a front for 800.com. It's not even worth the time to look.

DVDexpress is even worse. Like most of the rest of express.com, they just sort of stopped shipping product for a good long while as they figured out their financial situations, then reopened their store some time later-- with the kind of prices you'd expect to pay at Suncoast.

These days, if I'm looking to buy a new DVD, I'll most likely drive to Best Buy. They're not always the cheapest sticker price, but shipping isn't a factor, and except in particularly rare cases, this means the final cost is less. I've found that the websites attached to retail stores-- bestbuy.com, circuitcity.com, and so on-- always sync their prices with their real-world counterparts, so they're only useful if you're wondering how much you're going to pay when you get to the store.

The only beacon of hope? I'm in love with deepdiscountdvd.com. They have some screwy prices at first glance, sometimes even a buck, buck and a half more than the other sites, but this is because they also offer "free shipping:" you're going to pay exactly what you see. The site is particularly nice when it comes to, surprise surprise, pre-orders. My hope is that they don't sell out to one of the larger online retailers, because then shopping online would become exactly what we're all afraid of for the net: it'd be nothing more than a counterpart to a small assortment of large real-world corporations.

I really miss the old days, when those of us willing to brave online shopping were treated to unreal deals just because the sites needed to get attention. This is what ate the sites alive, I'm sure, but damn if I don't love the idea of getting cheaper movies because of some sucker venture capitalist.

And don't even get me started on shopping for books online.

Re:The State of DVD

[cymen]

$12.49 for The Matrix? I think I paid $5 shipped! If you have time to waste (hell, you're posting here, you do) visit dvdtalk.com's DVD Bargains forum. All the hot stuff is gone like you say but I'm sure you'll find some sweet deals... The key is to check it every couple days or read back in the forum to see what kind of deals have come up in the last couple weeks/months.

Auctions implosion coming

[Ars-Fartsica]

It will only take one well-placed cover story in Time or Newsweek to blow the cover off of the ongoing scam that is web auctions, and with the number of Americans testing the waters of these services, its going to happen soon.

As is obvious now, more often than not, unsuspecting consumers will end up paying more than retail for a used product. Who knows, maybe they are paying a premium for the excitement of bidding...but thats a stretch. More likely they simply aren't aware that the product is available for less, brand new.

Also, many sellers are no longer individuals or hobbyists, but professional middle men. I personally know of people who buy in bulk at Fry's and then move the merchandies on EBay, once again, for a profit. This trend has taken the fun out of web auctions and has turned it into a volume operation.

Re:Auctions implosion coming

[acceleriter]

Also, many sellers are no longer individuals or hobbyists, but professional middle men. I personally know of people who buy in bulk at Fry's and then move the merchandies on EBay, once again, for a profit.

I don't like profiteers that don't add value any more than it looks like you do, but if the seller buying stuff at Fry's and turning it for a profit is making it available to people who don't have access to the temple that is Fry's (me, for example), why shouldn't he be entitled to make money doing it?

Re:Auctions implosion coming

[haruharaharu]

if the seller buying stuff at Fry's and turning it for a profit is making it available to people who don't have access to the temple that is Fry's (me, for example), why shouldn't he be entitled to make money doing it?

Didn't you just describe a distributor? This isn't profiteering, it's just normal business. Profiteering would be those Coke machines that tied the price to the temperature.

Re:Auctions implosion coming

[_ganja_]

Nothing wrong with buying at Frys and selling on ebay. Just the same as playing elite in real life without the Thargon attacks.

The Great Bargain Rush

[JojoLinkyBob]

Yes, finding a good bargain online nowadays is like finding a piece of hay in a stack of needles.

Here are links I always use when Pay Day comes around. Some of them aren't rock-bottom deals, but they are quite reasonable (i.e. better than Best Buy):

Computer Stuff
www.techbargains.com
www.newegg.com
Video Games
www.ebgames.com
www.easybuy2000.com
DVD's
www.dvdpricesearch.com
Books
www.bestbookbuys.com
www.bookpool.com (they have more used i think) Price Comparison
www.pricewatch.com
www.pricescan.com

I'd love to hear from others on this, I wouldn't mind saving more! :)

Re:The Great Bargain Rush

[CodeWheeney]

Re: Books

Bookpool is invariably the cheapest source for Computer books (I recently bought Effective STL by Scott Myers for 20% off list, and Modern C++ Design by Andrei Alexandrescu, also for 20% off list.

You might also check out MyCheapBook.com for effective price comparison (although it doesn't examine bookpool).

Re:The Great Bargain Rush

[Reziac]

addall.com, for books.

Re:The Great Bargain Rush

[Reziac]

Oh yeah, I forgot powells.com, the online outlet for the world's largest usedbook store. Not always the best price, but usually right in that neighbourhood, and relatively low shipping.

Arbitrage

[rlp]

arbitrage Attempting to profit by exploiting price differences of identical or similar financial instruments, on different markets or in different forms.

When buyers have limited information on pricing, sellers can charge a wide range of prices in different locales. As better communications and hence better pricing information becomes available, prices become more uniform. This is initially due to arbitrage (buying a commodity where it is priced low, and reselling somewhere else at a higher price). Later sellers are forced to make their prices more uniform to compete effectively.

A similar effect happened over a hundred and fifty years ago with the invention of the telegraph (see The Victorian Internet by Tom Standage). The Internet initially allowed consumers to a) gain pricing information instantly across the world and b) order goods priced far lower than those available locally. Anecdotally, I've noticed local prices of computer parts at local retailers used to be consistently higher than on-line prices. This is no longer true, frequently I can get better buys from local retailers.

Huh? Walmart is world's largest retailer, employer

[Ars-Fartsica]

Step outside your perspective and you'll see a nation of $35k earners who are religious WalMart shoppers. Why? Because its almost always the cheapest place to buy things. The stores are dumpy and the clientele dishevelled, but if were about something other than saving money, Amazon and Walmart would have changed places a long time ago.

actually it was bad for the economy, very bad...

[Malor]

The problem with all these billions of dollars that were used up and wasted on building these online businesses is this: that money was not available to build more productive things.... like, say, power plants in California. And nearly all the money spent was to build unprofitable businesses that encouraged consumption. Despite what McTeer claims (if everyone would just join hands and buy an SUV), economies and wealth do not improve purely from consumption.

Basically: you cannot waste money in that magnitude without having a bad effect on the economy underneath. The subsequent crash and hard times for many techies can be directly related to this foolish overspending -- too many techs were hired in a hurry, so salaries went into the stratosphere, attracting many people into technology that would not otherwise have gone there. Now, there are too many techs, the unemployment rate is high, and salaries are dropping fast.

So, if you're a techie, you should be at least a little bit pissed about the 'stupid venture capitalists'. That money you saved on DVDs, etc. will be deducted from future paychecks. :\

Web is inefficient

[anthony_dipierro]

The reason is that despite what Amazon.com and the others want to tell you, the web is a less efficient way to shop than in a major store.

Why is this? Shipping. It makes a lot more sense to ship 1000 items to the store and have individuals pick them up than it does to have 1000 items shipped to 800 different locations in 900 different packages.

Once real-world stores start having online shopping and real-world pick-up, the prices will fall again.

Re:Web is inefficient

[stripes]

Why is this? Shipping. It makes a lot more sense to ship 1000 items to the store and have individuals pick them up than it does to have 1000 items shipped to 800 different locations in 900 different packages.

Maybe, but retail stores have to pay rent in more expansive areas then mail order stores do. Retail stores have to keep inventory local, mail order stores can choose to not stock items until ordered, after all people buying from them are already signing up for a multi day wait for shipping, what is a few more days?

Mail order can get by with fewer employees per customer. Plus they can locate those people in areas with lower pay scale.

Mail order has be around longer then the Internet (really, Sears use to do it before the turn of the century), and while it doesn't serve all markets, it does work for many. Ordering off the Internet isn't worse then mail ordering via a catalogue (except for getting exact color matches), and is in many ways a bit better.

Once real-world stores start having online shopping and real-world pick-up, the prices will fall again

I think a lot of stores do this. Circuit City is the only one I bought from. Filled out my order on line, got prices, put in the order, got the confirmation number, and picked up the order locally (mostly stuff with great rebates, like 100 CD-Rs for $2 after rebate). The stuff was in the same queue you use for in-store ordered items that they bring from the warehouse.

Re:Web is inefficient

[stripes]

Both of these points are true, but for high volume items which don't depreciate rapidly this tends to be a rather small savings.

Inventory size won't matter as much in that case, but rent still will. I doubt office furnature depreciates as much, but storing 5000 desks will cost a lot less in ohio then in the greater DC area.

A person at a checkout counter isn't going to be paid very much, and isn't going to be spending any more time than someone packing boxes.

Except checkout people get payed even when nobody is browsing (watch a store front sometime, traffice ebbs and flows). In a retail store you need to keep lines down during peak demand, and that may mean paying three people even though most of the hour 0 to 1 of them are busy, and only for 5 min or so are all three busy. Or if not over an hour, over a 4 hour shift at least. Mail order deals with a whole day's orders much more uniformly.

I expect time spent in a wherehouse pulling items isn't as bad as you would think since they tend not to search as much as normal people (at least not in a well run wharehouse).

I do admit that having a self checkout asile may change that a bit though. So long as you don't need expensave tags on each item.

The internet is a bit more efficient than catalogue sales, but it's by no means at a point where it can replace brick and mortar shopping.

For most items I agree. Especally for items you can try out and test in a store, but not on line. For impulse items. For really bulky items. For frequently bought items. For all those things a retail store has real advantages that a mail order (or Internet) store can't really compete well with.

On the other hand a Internet store can provide much more complete access to the specs on complex items. Other then testing the feal of a DVD player I think Internet shopping wouks much better for that because the people at the stores are clueless and they can never locate the manuals.

Plus there is the price thing. I admit I live in a fairly high price area, but Internet prices on many many many things is lower then local store prices. Mail order prices are lower as well. Selection tends to be better as well. I expect in less populated areas the price advantage may shrink, but the selection advantage would grow. In really less populated areas the price advantage would rise again (too few people to support many stores, less compatation...). However I just made all that up -- what I really know is the bits about "around here". Around here it is cheaper to buy clothes form Land's End then the local Men's clothing store. Around here it is cheaper to buy CD's online then from Tower. Around here it is cheaper to buy books from wherever www.bestbuybooks.com says then B&N or Borders.

I doubt it will ever be cheaper to get a tomato, loaf of bread, or pork roast online though.

Not exactly what I meant, but it's a start. What I really want is to be able to access the inventories right on the shelves of the store, in real time.

I'm pretty sure that when you select a local store the Circuit City web site shows inventory for both the local and online store.

What would be beautiful is if there were one physical store where I could pick-up my products from multiple different online stores. Combine the efficiencies of the brick and mortar stores with the efficiencies of the online stores. The only problem is that brick and mortar stores will lose all their profits as soon as people start comparison shopping. In a truly efficient market, middlemen don't make money.

Exactly, this will never happen unless there is a way for the middlemen to make a profit. It might happen if the online guys were the middlemen, and given your location what they are really telling you is where to go to get the stuff you asked for (minimum number of miles, minimum number of stores), and they got a small cut of the price from the retailers. Making them more like an advertisment. However the tendency for them to stear you towards places with higher kickbacks will mess that up. Plus it requires better inventory reporting then many stores have, and more information being exposed then many stores like to give potential competitors. So I think while there might be a little money in it, there is too little.

P.S. I'm not sure middlemen make less in an efficent market then anyone else -- in an efficent market all margins drop to zero. In the real world stock brokers make real money, and so do movie distribution houses. So that's the real movatitor. Plus all market sectors start pretty inefficently, so there may be money in something untill too many people get into it...

That difference in price between Circuit City and online retailers; it's not due to inefficiencies with brick and mortar stores, it's pure profit.

I doubt it. There are lots of factors. Even two retail stores can have radically diffrent prices and not have profit margins that are all that diffrent. One may do a better job of inventory control, keeping employe loss to a minimum, and picking the right items to stock, advertise and hype. Oh, and better chosen store locations.

The price differences between Circuit City and price watch retiler number 8 is a vast sea of complexity, and I doubt either of us knows even half the story.

Re:Web is inefficient

[stripes]

True, but shipping 5000 desks to 5000 locations will cost *a whole lot* less than shipping 5000 desks to 1 location. Desks aren't the kind of item that goes well online. It's more movies, electronics, books, etc.

Well, (a) I was only really picking something to talk about real estate costs, and (b) did you know many places don't stock a whole lot of furnature?

I bought a bedroom set recently (well my wife&I picked one out, it gets delevered tommrow). It wasn't in stock, and in fact pretty much nothing is at that store, but they do have lots on the show room floor, and good prices.

Online stores I'd imagine get a *much* higher rate of chargebacks, and without a signiture there isn't very much they can do about them.

Beats me. I don't know if the fraud rate is higher, or if it is still easier to deal with it with a signiture.

Also the Wal Marts do have idle checkout clerks, esp close to closing time.

I totally agree with you. For almost all items I buy I'd much rather shop for them online. But then I'd like to go pick the item up, not have to wait a week.

It depends on what you buy. Most things I can wait a week for, and in fact would much rather wait a week and not have to drive off somewhere. On the other hand there are things I would rather have now. Unfortunitly the most recent one for me was a TiBook, but despite working walking distance from an Apple Store, I can't buy it there. It is only build to order. So I'm still waiting for the thing.

If you're buying 1 CD, or 1 book, around here it's about the same, when factoring in shipping costs. If you're buying more you can get a small discount from shopping online. Fairly small, though.

I tend to buy books in a bunch anyway (buy a bunch, keep track of what I want next, then when I'm down to only one or two left buy the next bunch). DVDs sometimes I get singles, sometimes in small groups. I don't really get a whole lot of CDs, mostly my wife buys them (locally, she is not fond of online shopping). When I do buy CDs it tends to be in batches, for no real reason.

Certainly not with the current shipping models, though I believe we will one day be able to do our grocery shopping online and then either go pick it up or have it delivered in a matter of hours. And I believe that will be the cheapest way to get your groceries, at least for all but the most rural areas.

I don't see how that would be the cheap way, not without labor and/or shipping costs dropping quite a bit. Plus it's going to be harder to have the right bit of fruit or meat delivered if you are picky about such things ("No blemishes on my peach, soft but not too soft..."; "Banana just a little green"...)

[fulfillment service]... The problem with that idea is of course sales tax. This is especially sad because it's effectively a tax on brick and mortar businesses. I'm not sure how or if the government is going to solve that problem. Perhaps a federal sales tax on interstate commerce, remitted to the state in which the product is purchased, which the state can choose to refund to consumers (on their income tax forms) in states which have low or no sales/use tax. But there is a lot of fear that would eventually get stolen away from the states, a fear which is quite justified.

Try it in a state without sales tax. Plus try it two years ago when you could get VC just by having a pulse :-)

You could also try to see if you could get the billing to go directly through the online retailer, then maybe you don't need to charge sales tax (except on the $0.25?). See a lawyer, they may be able to find a way to do this (or let you know that it just can't be done). Oh, and the $0.25 might have to vary depending on the size/weight of the item. It sounds like it might be OK for CD/DVD, but not for a piano...

Actually this one may not be too costly to try, you don't have inventory costs, just rent, salery, and insurance. Better your money then mine though :-)

NYSE and NASDAQ are far from efficient markets.

Thus my comments about being able to make money as middlemen, at least for a while.

I guess I really shouldn't talk about those complexities until I've done it myself, and at the moment no one is willing to loan me a few million to try. Which leads to another inefficiency with brick and mortar stores: barriers to entry. But barriers to entry just lead to profits, so I guess I *am* trying to argue that I do know half the story.

It doesn't cost a few mil to run a B&M store, look at all the people who run their own "Quickie Mart", it "just" requires a bit of risk and a ton of hard work. Getting a franchise of a chain is harder, but by no means does it cost millions.

The Online Used Book Market, ABE Books and eBay

[Nova Express]

I both buy and sell first edition science fiction, fantasy, horror and slipstream on both www.abebooks.com (as Lame Excuse Books) and occasionally on eBay (as lawrenceperson). With something like 8,500 other dealers on ABE, it's quite easy to find bargins, since you can compare by price. For reading copies of bestsellers, you can find many things at quarter-price or less. For really desirable first editions, the price of course will be higher, but 99% of the time you can usually find a rare book in nice condition for less than it would cost you at a local bookshop, assuming you can find it at all. (For a couple of random examples, there are currently five copies of H. P. Lovecraft's The Outsider and Others (the first Arkham House book) listed there, as well as eight hardback copies of Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash.)

eBay, on the other hand, is an entirely different can of worms. Buyers (and, alas, sellers) range from the very knowledgeable to the completely ignorant. For science fiction first editions, most of the people I know on there will open another window and search for a particularly interesting item on ABE before bidding on eBay. But there are many people who will bid several times what an item is listed for on ABE just because they don't know about the latter.

This is not to say that ABE has completely replaced the local speciality bookseller. For example, I still buy quite a few things at Adventures in Crime and Space, Austin's local SF shop, because I know the owners, its convienant, and many times you see things browsing that you wouldn't know to look for. But many speciality shops are themselves on ABE, especially given the tough post 9/11 business climate.

A free bookbuying tip: Many times, the exact same copy of a used book listed on ABE will show up on Barnes & Noble or Amazon.com, but at 2-5 times the price listed on ABE. That's because ABE has "affiliate" programs that allow such books to be listed on those services, but B&N and Amazon always jack the price up to give themselves a hefty profit margin.

As for conclusions beyond the world of books: Whenever possible, use search engines that give you listings from many different dealers. (It also helps if you have a service like ABE that kicks dealers off if they receive too many complaints.)

I've been wondering the same thing

[abe ferlman]

I've been reading the sunday paper this morning in front of my computer with my digital convergence CueCat:, and I keep swiping the ads- no deals! What's up with that?

Oh well, at least I can still check the price of transistors at radio shack with my free barcode rea^H^H^H CueCat:!

I tried running my cuecat: across a printout of slashdot's website, and it took me to some weird goat site, not sure what's up with that...

Ebay+20% haha so true...

[tcc]

Especially for the digital cameras, I mean, I know Ebay is a cool experience, bidding, winning and all that, but paying MORE than what it's worth, I wonder if these people are the same that are suffering from the gambling problems (like those who get ruined in casinos or with videopoker machines).

Anything that is video/digital but light (shipping) is really crazy on ebay. I was looking for a DLP projector instead of buying a huge ass tv, the amount of video projectors that I saw completed or some of the reserve prices were so crazy, the thing is USED and I could get a refurb unit from the manufacturer CHEAPER with a warranty and a new light bulb! This is just too "x-file" for my understanding, I can understand for a 50$ joycam digital camera, no hassles and you get it, but when it's in the 4 digits, usually, unless you're rich or not spending your own money, you'd tend to shop a bit to see the prices and compare... if you're rich enough to buy something in the 4 digits without even shopping for it first usually you can afford a new unit... this is why I'm wondering if these people are actually morons or it goes deeper than this (like gambling problems), ah anyways, the only thing I can say is: good for the sellers :)

Re:eBayers will bid on anything, even an empty box

[ferreth]

Stupid bidders is not a new phenomina. Last live action I went to to pick up a bicycle, a cheap "Norco" ended up going for about 3/4's of it's retail price. The more expensive (new) "Specialized" bike that I bought went for about the same price as the Norco - about 1/3rd of the new price.

The difference on eBay is you have a huge bidding population, so there are more stupid bidders out there that will pay more than an item is worth.

Items like Xbox have a lot more stupid bidders than say, Cisco Routers, IMHO. I don't think the empty Cisco Router box auction would work. Then again, someone could be desparate for an original box to ship it in...

Think of your customer

[Convergence]

Ebay is mostly for individuals buying stuff for themselves.

If I was thinking of buying a $700 16 port switch. Ebay is probably the last place I'd check. That looks to be a switch used by businesses and professionals. Not a switch used by individuals.

I'm guessing that the business world probably feels a little unconfortable about buying business products on someplace like ebay, and thats probably the people you want to buy it.

Its sorta like trying to sell managed business-class hosting, or a mainframe; I doubt either would sell on ebay unless they were an insane steal.

there still are deals

[guinsu]

There are plenty of sites with deals, I am surpised no one mentioned any of the great coupon sites like dealcatcher.com

Bargains? Here you go!

[Splat]

There are a ton of "Hot Deals" and "Bargain" sites on the net that can help you get some sweet, sweet deals. Of course they also turn you into compulsive shoppers ...

The following sites offer deals usually involving coupons/rebates/price mistakes on websites. Some of the cooler deals I've gotten:

Free HP Deskjet 930C via Estamps rebates.
5 Belkin PCI 100mbit NICs for 81 cents each
$30 16X CD-RW
And more... go forth... and spend!

Sites:
http://www.bensbargains.net
http://www.techbargains.com
http://www.slickdeals.net
http://www.hot-deals.org

or if you like to go right to the source, most of the above sites patrol these forums and post the good ones:
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/categories.cfm?c at id=18
http://forums.anandtech.com/categories.cfm?catid =4 0

Tip for using pricewatch...

[(H)elix1]

Always check out the vendor's Reseller Ratings and take a look at the comments. If you find a good price, make sure you know other people's issues (or praises). Anytime I hit a new vendor, I always check them out first...

It's all about the (lack of) sales tax

[GregGardner]

A lot of people have the misconception that things online are "a little bit cheaper" but that the shipping cost out-weighs that discount. While this is often true for things like books and CD's, it is not the case for bigger ticket items, espcially if things can be bought online out-of-state so that you don't have to pay sales tax. You forfeit the immediate gratification of buying your product and bringing it home, but sometimes the money you save in not paying sales tax can save you enough that you can get next day delivery and still save money. Plus you don't have to drive your car to the store, find parking, fight through the crowds, wait in line, etc.

Re:It's all about the (lack of) sales tax

[Tazzy531]

Uh, scuze me but most (if not all) states put the burden of paying sales tax on sellers, not buyers, and whether they are liable for a tax bill depends on the extent to which they do business in a given state.

Sorry, but you are wrong on this. If a product is sold by a business to a customer in a state that the business operates, that business must collect sales tax. It is the same way that if you go down to a store down the street. However, if the business is in a different state, the US Supreme Court has ruled that the state cannot force a company that is operating outside of its jurisdiction to collect sales tax. Many states, however, have put the burden of paying sales tax on the individual. Now, states very rarily have the resources to crack down on this and often people don't even know these laws. In addition, counties and towns can add their own sales tax laws. So all of these are the responsibility of the individual.

Because the states, counties, and municipalities make their own tax laws, this has been the main reason that congress has not enacted a internet tax [in addition to the fact that it could prevent growth in the industry]. Below, I've copied a number of state's out of state sales tax laws.
New Jersey:

If you purchase taxable merchandise from an out-of-state mail order business and no New Jersey sales tax is collected, you owe 6% use tax on the purchase price of the goods. Use tax is due within twenty days after the merchandise is delivered into New Jersey. Shipping charges separately listed on the bill are exempt from tax. NJ

Pennsylvania:

Q. How are out-of-state purchases/sales taxed?
A. In Pennsylvania, the responsibility to pay Sales Tax is ultimately placed on the consumer. When a resident purchases a taxable item outside of Pennsylvania and does not pay Sales Tax at the time of purchase, the tax is then due to Pennsylvania in the form of Use Tax at the same 6 percent rate. The Use Tax is due and payable when the item is brought to or received in Pennsylvania, and it is up to the purchaser to remit the tax to the Department. Out of state sales are not subject to Pennsylvania Sales Tax when the item is shipped directly to an out of state location. PA Tax

California:

(B) From Other States -- When Sales Tax Does Not Apply. Sales tax does not apply when the order is sent by the purchaser directly to the retailer at a point outside this state, or to an agent of the retailer in this state, and the property is shipped to the purchaser, pursuant to the contract of sale, from a point outside this state directly to the purchaser in this state, or to the retailer's agent in this state for delivery to the purchaser in this state, provided there is no participation whatever in the transaction by any local branch, office, outlet or other place of business of the retailer or by any agent of the retailer having any connection with such branch, office, outlet, or place of business. CA Tax [Note: in this case there is no tax]

Maine:

Are sales over the Internet taxable? Sales made over the Internet are subject to the same sales tax application as mail order sales. If the seller is required to be registered to collect Maine Sales Tax, then the seller should collect the tax on the sale. If the seller is not required to be registered, then the seller is not required to collect tax on the sale. The purchaser, however, would still owe a Maine Use Tax, payable directly to Maine Revenue Services, based on the sale price of the goods. Most Maine taxpayers report this use tax liability on their Maine 1040. Maine Tax

btw: I Am Not A Lawyer (IANAL)

Gotapex.com

[Johnboi Waltune]

One of my favorite sites for finding deals is Got Apex. He scours the net every day for bargains, usually on computer and A/V equipment. I have found some incredible deals from this page. It is updated frequently and worth checking out daily.

(I'm not associated in any way with the site, blah blah...)

Re:What ebay is good for..... avoiding microsoft t

[Oliver Defacszio]

It's also a wonderful place to get naked

Where isn't?

Re:morons buy off ebay?

[Luminous]

Obvously you didn't pay attention to what was written. The post said people who pay 20% MORE on Ebay are morons. If you are getting deals, you are not a moron.

Bad Online Experiences

[Darth_Burrito]

I don't know about anyone else, but I've never trusted online bargains. Once I was trying to order some parts off of pricewatch and came across a series of companies that were lowering their prices at night when the store was closed and raising them when the stores opened. The only way to get the pricewatch price was to call and mention the current price. However there was no way to place an order over the phone when the store was closed. When I asked about getting last midnight's price, they refused and would not comment on their pricing scheme.

Another time, I tried ordering a computer kit online (pricewatch), I was about to give him my credit card number when he suggested I upgrade to their special CPU cooler which was "better" than the one that came with their product. I asked him if there was something wrong with the cpu cooler that came with it and he said that while the cpu cooler that came with it was perfectly good, it only consisted of a fan. I spoke with him a few minutes to try and figure out exactly what he meant and determined the actual cpu cooler included in his 1.33GHz Athlon kit was somehow without a heatsink. Click.

Yet another time, in a fit of insanity, I decided to order a new video card online saving about $60. Everything went smoothly, I ordered from a company in California for about $270 (US). A week and a half later, it arrived with a return address somewhere in Brazil. I have no idea what I would of had to do had the product been defective (thank god it wasn't), but I'm sure it would have been hell.

Perhaps, bad experiences online have driven consumers away from these vendors and forced the online retailers to raise prices. Maybe most of the bargains out there never really existed anyway. As a kid scrounging for money to buy stuff, it sometimes makes sense. As a professional with a decent salary, buying online often isn't worth the risk.

Re:Bad Online Experiences

[LinuxHam]

I don't know about anyone else, but I've never trusted online bargains

I, too, rarely trust online bargains. When I want a deal to go down well, I'll spend some time getting the best price and then take that price to CDW. They've never turned down a price match I've brought to them.

I learned to do that when I was 14, and buying a Commodore 1571 drive. When everyone was selling it for $160, I found a magazine ad that I swear had to be a typo.. $45 instead of what should've been $145. I brought it to a local store that did price matching, and they honored it! I always view online buying as "first find the best price, and then find the best retailer".

I just recently started trying out eCost. So far, so good, but I haven't tried any price matching on them.

Re:eBayers will bid on anything, even an empty box

[cymen]

If you started your auction at $1 you'd sell it right away. If you watch eBay for a while you'll realize that the high bid items that people bid emotionally on are often started at a low price in order to draw the maximum number of bidders possible so you have a large number of people invested in winning. So if you want to sell it and get it over with start at $1. The market will decide the price. You might get $50, you might get $400, but if you start it at $200 you'll never find out.

I've got a question.

[Xapp]

Where did all the good /. threads go?

Price comparisons vs web technologies

[LinuxHam]

I was just wondering if anyone agrees that a big reason web technologies haven't really taken off yet in the b2b and auction markets are the pricing pressures those technologies put on the retailers. By now, businesses weren't supposed to be sending paper invoices anymore -- they were supposed to be autodiscovering each other in some global PKI directory and using XML and SOAP for billing and payments.

Technology companies have been pushing the cost savings in the new way to do business, and the new ease in finding the lowest prices available. But it seems the retailers are slow to adopt because it would mean making life much easier for consumers to find the best prices.

Imagine a Pricewatch that had fully automated pricing and one-click buying. We were supposed to be there a couple years ago.

Well..

[mindstrm]

perhaps meatspace prices just dropped a bit to equal online prices?

I can't see a clear reason why online sales should be cheaper than in-store sales. Where does the cost saving come into play?

If the net has done anything, it's helped globalizes prices. You don't get as much region to region fluctuation in retail items anymore. (I didn't say NO fluctuation, just less. There is still plenty)

As for people paying retail +20%, absolutely.
I saw a guy selling silver maple leafs (1 troy oz silver bullion, Canadian Mint) for market price + 50%. And people were buying.. because it was a 'collectors item'(It's not, it's silver bullion that you can pick up at a bazillion outlets at spot price)

Re:Ebay+20% haha so true... (not necessarily!)

[King_TJ]

I can think of a couple good examples right now, related directly to photography equipment, where you're not quite correct.

1. I've been researching a good DV capable camcorder to purchase. (Got a kid on the way, and I think it makes sense to get something to film the baby.) I limited myself to camcorders in the "under $1000" range, because I simply can't afford more than that. Basically, I concluded that Sony makes some of the best DV camcorders, but current models are $1200+ each. The PRC-730 happens to be a last year's model that's in my price range (when you can find one), and meets all of my qualifications. I keep seeing them on eBay with starting bids in the $400 range, but bid to around $700-800 by the close of the auction. I thought maybe eBayers were just over-paying for this thing, until I checked pricewatch.com and called around. The camera stores advertising clearance pricing on this camcorder want around $690-790 which sounds better *until* you find out they're typically selling the Japanese version. It's "grey market" in the U.S. so has no warranty, and the manuals are in Japanese! All of them I've seen on eBay have been the real U.S. version with 1 year factory warranty, so score one for eBay being superior!

2. I have a Sony Mavica FD-81 digital camera I'm ready to sell. It's in like-new condition with real light use. Paid about $700 for it when it was new, only a year or so ago. I can see letting it go for about half what I paid, new. On eBay, nobody's bidding over $130 or so for these things right now! What the h*ll?? I'd be really pissed if someone bought my FD-81 for less than the cheapest of the clearance megapixel cameras sells for at the store! For under $200, I'd rather just hang onto it. I sure don't see these "dumb eBay bidders" bidding 20% over retail on the FD-81!

Don't forget mail-in rebates!

[King_TJ]

I think one of the big trends, in this economy, is to discount only through mail-in rebates. That way, the store gets the full price for the product they sell, and the manufacturer can defer taking the hit of selling at discount. (Think of all the extra interest they earn on their money if they stall sending out all those rebate checks, instead of selling at a loss to the stores, up-front.)

Furthermore, it seems to be popular to "hide" the rebate notices and forms, so only the truly savvy shopper can take advantage of them. I just bought an Epson Stylus Photo printer, only to discover there was a $50 mail-in rebate on it when I looked around on Epson's web site. The Officemax store I bought the printer at had no knowledge of the rebate. Then, I got a new cellphone last week, and found out from a message forum on the Inet that Kyocera was doing a $50 rebate on it, too. Unfortunately, the only known place to get this rebate form was in the back of a particular issue of a mobile computing magazine! I had to run to CompUSA and buy the magazine to get the form.

I guess my point is this: Bargains are still out there, expecially on computers and electronics. It's just that now, you have to use the net as more of a research tool to find out where and how to get the discounts. It's not so much that a web-based store will sell you something dirt cheap, outright.

Deals still exist

[NiftyNews]

In fact, they're in my tagline. Updated 3-5+ times a day. Check it out and consider a bookmark.

disagree with...

[MicroBerto]

half.com. Go to your college bookstore, look at book prices, and then go to half.com. Then go and tell me that there's no deals out there. What a way for a college student to save cash!

Re:International costs of P&P

[arkanes]

As someone who once helped run an ecommerce site, it's because almost any store will have FedEx, UPS, and/or USPS shipping accounts all set up and constantly in use, while stuff like slow-boat shipping from independent companies is an incredible hassle to set up. Also not likely to be cheaper unless your physical location in a warehouse district near a major shipping hub.

Just have to know where to look.

[Jason Levine]

As with any "real-world" store, you just have to know where to look and how to shop around. Say, for example, that I want to buy a new DVD. My first stop would be BizRate.com. There I get not only price comparisons, but store ratings as well. (I'm willing to pay a buck or two more to get the DVD from a reputable place.) I then shop online at a few other places (Half.com, BestBuy.com) and even drive to a few real stores (BJ's Wholesale club for example). I factor in tax and/or shipping and figure out who has the best price. When I've found the best place to buy it, be it website or normal store, I buy it there. By doing this, I can save some pretty good cash. For example, I bought 3 used music CDs -- which were as good as new except for one which had a cracked case -- for less than $40 on Half.com. Retail these would have cost me over $55. (And I'm sure the RIAA would have fits if they knew I was buying used CDs instead of giving them more money by buying new ones. ;-) )

Re:They need a "Hey Jackass, go here" option....

[arkanes]

Just curious and somewhat offtopic, but isn't that smuggling? And if they made it a standard buissness practice, couldn't they get in a LOT of trouble if anyone ratted them out?

Online comparison shopping vs. brick-and-mortar

[Scareduck]

Full disclosure: I am an employee of Pricegrabber, so you may make of that what you will. Nonetheless I still buy stuff online and offline like everyone else here.

Two and three years ago, online sales were a mammoth below-cost bazaar. But as the entrants found they had to achieve profitability, and this quarter, they started to disappear. In some markets, brick-and-mortars took over their competitors that were threatening to bury them only a few months before. For instance, take PetSmart's buyout of pets.com, or KB Kids' buyout of eToys.com (a spectacular flamout). This is natural, and in the long term, for the better. What are left are in fact the low-overhead guys, the ones who didn't start with enormous, get-rich-quick dreams. There's still a lot of vendors making money over at the Yahoo stores, believe it or not.

Pricewatch, PriceGrabber, et al are in the online comparison shopping business. All of them charge their merchants for listings; the real question is how. With Pricewatch, the vendors are charged based on the number of products listed, which means you essentially get a list of whatever the retailer thinks are his strongest sale products at the moment. There's two disadvantages for the site visitor (consumer) in this: first, it reduces the breadth of merchants, and second, it hides a fair amount of products. Pricegrabber does a better job of this simply because their underlying pricing structure doesn't automatically discourage merchants from showing more products. (Of course, there's nothing preventing merchants from being selective for their own reasons, but at least it's not an issue financially.)

From personal experience, the difference between online and brick-and-mortar prices is narrowing generally, but that doesn't mean there aren't bargains out there. Where I use our own site most is on unusual items that most b&m's won't stock (for instance, SCSI drives). Even when looking at more commodity items (ATA drives, CD-R media), it pays to at least check prices online to see whether the price delta and convenience factor combined are worth it to you. (For many people who don't live near big cities, online is the only realistic option and a great salvation.) Also, don't forget that there's a much broader selection available online than off. It's not unusual to find a product available online that even big-box retailers are out of. I recently bought a Samsung N501 DVD player through a merchant on our site that was not only substantially more expensive at our local Best Buy, but out of stock as well.

these are the hot bargains I've found

[kootch]

www.ebaystores.com/ibm - IBM's brand new equipment with warranty where they sell for 1/2 the price sometimes.

www.overstock.com - Overstock.com... lots of good stuff for cheap with a flat rate on shipping of $3.95 no matter how much you put in the box

flamingoworld.com - Great place to find coupons and such

overpaying on eBay = bad credit

[brocktune]

People who pay over retail are usually people with bad credit or teenagers who do not have a credit card. I sell PS2 games after I get tired of them, and I always get near or more than full retail for them. They will get a money order at a convenience store because they have no other way to pay.

two places i check first

[BigBir3d]

Pricewatch, of course.

Also, Nextag. Similar to Pricewatch, but has more than just computer related items.

A good source for hardware

[CodeWheeney]

I recently ran across MWave Direct while searching for goods via Bizrate. MWave seems to have very competitive prices and reasonable shipping (I purchased a 21" monitor and a SCSI Card). I've paid less to them with shipping than I could find online or at local hardware retailers.

YMMV

Deals Forums

[Tazzy531]

I typically check out the forums to see if there's any good deals on anything out on the internet. You can still find good deals out there on the internet. They have just become less and less.

Check out these forums:

• AnandTech
• BigBigSavings
• Deal of the Day

Ebay vs. Common Sense

[slaker]

Last month I was in the market for a new stereo receiver. I looked on Ebay - found what I wanted (an Onkyo TX-DS696) at a decent price ($600 - it retails for around $800). Put in my max bid... and watched it close $200 above retail, with 75% of the bidding in the last two minutes of the auction.
Rather than paying $800 or $1000 for what I wanted, I emailed the guy selling the receiver I had just lost. He offered to sell me the receiever for his shop's actual retail price of $650 + actual shipping. Sweet. I got it two days later, double boxed and in perfect shape.
I've since bought an SACD player the same way.

WAY better than dealing with the morons on Ebay.

the ongoing scam that is web auctions?

[stripes]

More likely they simply aren't aware that the product is available for less, brand new.

Also, many sellers are no longer individuals or hobbyists, but professional middle men. I personally know of people who buy in bulk at Fry's and then move the merchandies on EBay, once again, for a profit. This trend has taken the fun out of web auctions and has turned it into a volume operation

I have a hard time calling this a scam.

If I walk up to you, hold up a book you want and say "how much do you want for this", and sell it at that price, it is really hard to call it a scam.

A scam is if they take the money and run off with it. Or if they ship you something else. Lie about the condition. Invent extra bidders to run up the price. Or somehow charge you more after the bidding closes. Those are scams.

Selling you the exact product offered at the exact price someone says they will pay isn't a scam.

Even if some moron picks a price that is way high.

Think about it this way, Circuit City has lower prices on some items the Best Buy does, does that mean Circuit City is running a scam on you? Random pricewatch dealer number 6 has better prices then both Circuit City and Best Buy...are Circuit City and Best Buy both running scams? (for the moment, ignore the extended warentees).

It ain't a scam unless you misrepresent the item for sale, don't transfer it, or take more then the agreed on amount.

Re:pricescan seems to have better prices

[Spackler]

FWIW, I've had significantly better experiences with (www.)pricescan(.com) than pricewatch (ie. getting lower prices for the same items). Checkitout.

Seeing it's a shameless plug by you, I did check it out.

Athlon XP 2000+ Pricewatch: $284 - Pricescan: $315

Athlon XP 1800+ Pricewatch: $143 - Pricescan: $148

PC2100 512 MB Pricewatch: $116 - Pricescan: $135

Maxtor 80GB Pricewatch: $115 - Pricescan: $125

I'm guessing your significantly better experiences come from your working there, more than price comparisons in a similar market.

-Spackler

PS: Moderators, is it really a troll or a flame when he said to check it out, and I just did a little research on the subject to save my fellow slashdotters a little time? I think not.

Here's Bargains

[Peale]

There's a virtual cornucopia of information on finding cheap DVD's on the 'net.

First, check out The DVD Talk Forums for listings of cheap DVD's everywhere. My favorite is the thread on Columbia House, and how to purchase 7 DVD's from them for less than $10 each.

Then there's another personal favorite, deepdiscountdvd.com which routinely has the best prices on the 'net - and they challenge you to find cheaper prices, and they'll beat them.

For other bargains, I check TechBargains.Com several times a day. Often they'll have insane bargains you could easily miss. Like the two Handspring Visors I picked up - for free after rebate, I might add - because they were posted on this site.

Nover bought into online supposedly being cheaper.

[Chanc_Gorkon]

By the time I add shipping to some of the supposed cheaper price on some websites, I find it's almost as much as going down the street to Walmart or other local store. Ebay is a rip off, unless you are the seller. Pricewatch, while a nice tool, is not a good place to find someone I'd trust with my credit card number if you know what I mean. I could probably find a way to get listed on pricewatch. Also, if something goes wrong with what I buy, I can jump in the car and take it down and have a new one with in an hour. Try that on a web site (EXCEPT brick and mortar's that allow you to exchange web purchases in the store). Online being truely cheaper is a crock.

Online bargain sites

[DeadBugs]

Daily E Deals
Bargain Flix
Almostnothing

Re:Ebay+20% haha so true... (not necessarily!)

[Graymalkin]

You may or may not know this but Digital 8 camcorders record in DV format but just use Hi-8 cassettes rather than miniDV ones. IIRC the DCR-TRV130 from Sony is way under 1000$ (in the 600$ range) and has plenty of features. You can pick one up at WalMart for that price and some places online a bit cheaper than that. The TRV140 which I haven't found at retail shops lately has both i.Link and USB connections so can be used as a webcame and regular DV cam. It also uses The difference between the Digital 8 and normal MiniDV cams is about 30 lines of horizontal resolution which if you're going to edit the video anyhow doesn't make alot of difference because you can hide the lack of those extra 30 lines pretty easily.

Mercata and Value America

[Boone^]

Both of these websites had great startup deals (free $$ to get 'em hooked), but they just couldn't get the repeat business to cover their early losses. I got a TiVo out of the first, and all new peripherals (webcam, printer, keyb/mouse) out of the second for pennies on the dollar.

Online shoppers are just too fickle. There's no "get 'em hooked" for online ecommerce, there's only "keep 'em hooked".

The reason this happens

[The Cookie Monster]

The reason this happens is Ebay knows no distributor/retailer boundries.

Ebay has everything you can buy, you can spend 3 hours surfing around stores looking for what you want and not find it, or a few days walking around stores looking for what you want, or just go to Ebay and buy it (and pay the premium).

With Ebay you don't need to find the shop before you can find the item - you just look straight for the item. It doesn't matter if it's brand new or years out of print, it doesn't matter if it's rare, it doesn't matter if its not sold in any stores in your country (a reason I occasionally use it for new stuff).

A retail equivalent of Ebay, offering the wares of *all* retail stores would achieve the same sort of thing for retail goods - you could concertrate on what you want rather than who will have the best chance of stocking something like what you want. But since I doubt the retail industry will ever get its shit together that well, shops are stuck with using ebay (which is designed for auction, not retail)

People's use of Ebay (and paying above retail) isn't always stupidity (I myself have emailed sellers after a lost auction and bought the same item at retail price, and I've probably paid above retail on other auctions), it's often just convienience/lazyness.

Special Olympics

[Graymalkin]

The best online bargain out there is how cheap information is. If I decide I want to spent a bit of money on something it's a bargain if I get something worth the money I'm spending. Five years ago there wasn't nearly as much information on the web as there is now to assist in purchase descisions. Ten years ago there was no information there at all. I even use the web to find prices for low ball stuff like CDs and DVDs. I hate paying retail because I know I'm getting shafted by a good margin or else the retailer wouldn't be selling me said item. The lower price I get something for the less I'm being shafted. As for buying shit off the web it is caveat emptor like anything else. You win some you lose some but hopefully you've come out saving a bit off the retail price. Even if you're only saving 5 bucks per DVD (shipping marginalized on each DVD) you're still getting a deal with the more DVDs you can fit into a box. People who scour meatspace auctions and swap meets are the same ones who find the massive deals on the internet.

Re:eBay idiots

[thumbtack]

I've noticed the same thing. I've watched bidding wars get started of the silliest items at times. I've seen memory prices for generic go higher than I could buy name brand at my local computer store. I was watching a few auctions lately, on a slide scanner ( I had one I was wanting to sell) A year ago I put it up for $250 and got no bids. Then I saw this bidding war get started over the same model I had. It went close to $300. I put mine up and it sold for $370 plus. Couldn't believe it, but I cashed the check.

Re:Huh? Walmart is world's largest retailer, emplo

[Syberghost]

The stores are dumpy and the clientele dishevelled,

Not all of them. In my old home town in rural Oklahoma, the local Wal-Mart is not only one of the cleanest and nicest stores in town, it's also THE best grocery store, with the exception of tomatoes and milk. (I went to a little local chain for the former, and Braum's for the latter.)