Pinball Wizards on the Internet

cecil36 writes "Pinball wizards are now turning to the Internet for their needed support. With WMS Industries (Williams/Bally) no longer in existence, owners of Williams/Bally pinball games are turning to online communities (such as the news group rec.games.pinball) to find sources for parts to maintain their games. It could use a little more detail, as the article failed to mention Stern Pinball. Lots of useful links contained within if you are looking for those few parts to fix your games." I need to order new Rubber for my Jack Bot sometime too.

Comments

What about real pinball games?

[ChanxOT5]

Whatever happened to the proliferance of pinball games for the computer? I used to love EPIC pinball for dos. I'm saddened that I haven't been able to find any good pinball games under X :(

Re:What about real pinball games?

[talonyx]

The problem is that, as the mainstream of people started to really get into computers, Windows 95 was taking over. Simple (as in, non-FPS) DOS games died like flies compared to graphically worse Windows games that were easier to install and run.

The majority of people thinking of computer pinball games must primarily be basing their knowledge of them on Microsoft's "3D Pinball" game that came with Windows NT 4.0 and 98, and later versions of Windows.

It's a really shitty pinball game, for those of you that haven't seen it. It's not "3D" in any sense of the word. The ball is just a sprite flying around a layered bitmap.

Epic Pinball was great... it had good sound, really smooth gameplay, and diverse tables that were lots of fun to play and get good at.

Sadly, Microsoft crushed the market.. if you wanted a pinball game, you already had one, why bother go get something else when pinball games seem to suck (based on experience).

Re:What about real pinball games?

[BlindSpot]

The Pro Pinball series is probably the best line of computer-specific pinball games you can get. While you need Windows to play the PC versions, the tables are generally quite well designed, the physics are very well-done, and they even have the diagnostics and statistics that real pinball machines have. There's also a web site with worldwide high scores for each game.

One of the major knocks against the Pro Pinball series was that you only got one table for the price of a normal computer game. I thought Timeshock was well worth the full price, but at any rate this is no longer a problem. Last summer I found a bundle with all four games (plus a bunch of casino and other games) for only $25 Canadian. This is a huge bargain since the games have hundreds of hours of replay value!

Re:What about real pinball games?

[billcopc]

Check out the Pro Pinball series. They're the most stunning pinball simulations I've ever played, with very elaborate tables and multiple goals. Their latest release, Fantastic Journey, really requires you to think if you want to score big, as the riches lie in collecting combo bonuses and activating special modes. All in all, a very solid series of pinball killers.

Re:What about real pinball games?

[mbourgon]

3 things, probably mentioned elsewhere:
1) Visual Pinball, www.visualpinball.com ; make your own Pinball game; this looks a lot like the old Pinball Construction Kit, but obviously updated. Very intriguing, thus far.

2) Pro Pinball - The Web, Timeshock, and Big Race USA. Of the 3, Timeshock is probably the best (The Web is a bit simplistic, and Big Race USA has too few things to do), and the graphics go all the way up to 1900x1200 or so. An utterly fantastic pinball game, physics are spot on and the design of the table is great. I'm sure you can find it somewhere online or on Ebay.

3) Williams Pinball Classics - just released, 4 tables for $20, and they're all based on old tables. From what I've read it has a couple of dud tables, but since there won't be any more Pro Pinball games (Epic deciding to get out of it after mediocre sales for BRUSA), this is as good as you'll get, which still isn't too bad.

Re:What about real pinball games?

[egrinake]

I sure had my share of good times on the ol' Amiga, with games like Pinball (Dream|Illusions|Fantasies). Why don't you go get the Unix Amiga Emulator and get hold of any of these games?

Because Stern machines suck...

[Loligo]

They're probably focusing on Bally / Williams machines because they were the only ones worth playing.

Stern machines just felt cheap and unresponsive compared to the tight, well-made feel of Bally and Williams.

Go play Rocky & Bullwinkle and tell me it had as nice a feel as Addam's Family or Funhouse or whatnot..

-l
(... dying to find an original High Speed ...)

Re:Because Stern machines suck...

[JoshMKiV]

Have you played the new Monopoly pinball table? Try to find one, it really is nice. Not perfect Williams, but it was developed by Pat Lawlor, who did Adam's Family.

Monopoly Pinball Info

Re:Because Stern machines suck...

[grubby]

Through the years my dad and I had at least 6 high speed's and I wish I still had one, that is definitely on my list of wants along with a simpsons and a getaway high speed 2 :-)

Re:Because Stern machines suck...

[Tom7]

Rocky & Bullwinkle is my all-time favorite!
Seriously.

strange

[doooras]

with all the new new games with the pretty graphics, and the big guns to frag all your friends with... it seems that pinball games are still the most entertaining... if you can find them anywhere.

New rubber?

[ennui]

How about new batteries while you're at it? And get ribbed/lubricated.

Re:New rubber?

[Anonymous Coward]

You would be surprised how fast a jack bot can go through rubbers. Just don't start tilting or sparks from the bot will cause a explosion.

Re:New rubber?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you guys serious? Is there actually something called a Jack Bot that needs to be ribbed and lubed and occasionally have its rubber replaced? Wow.

Visual Pinball + PinMame

[JoshMKiV]

Hope I can turn some people on to pinball via Virtual Pinball and PinMAME. Most of your favorite games are available. It really has come a LONG way.

Cheers!

Visual Pinball Forums>

Tables and more>

Re:Visual Pinball + PinMame

[BrookHarty]

Its getting much better, but you need good artwork to scan. It hard to find the old classic machines with artwork in mint condition. Lucky there are some artists who can airbrush.. That playboy pinball in virtural pinball is pretty good reproduction.

-
I want my M-LIFE

Re:Visual Pinball + PinMame

[letoram]

perhaps complete this with the addition of

[Visual Pinball Homepage]

and

[IR-pinball]

for a variety of tables, and I *think* rom images (for PinMAME, otherwise the manufacturers usually put them out on their sites for those blessed with an actual machine) Sad part (for me at least) is that there isn't a similar (or port for that matter) project under Linux. Any pinball-addicted developers up for the challenge?

Re:Visual Pinball + PinMame

[Anonymous Coward]

Good God, people! The United States has been hit with the worst terrorist attack in our history! Over three thousand people died in the World Trade Center alone! The fight to bring these killers to justice is going to take years.... and you're talking about PINBALL MACHINES?! Get some perspective!

I'm sorry sir, but your post has angered me beyond belief. Just who are you to tell me to get perspective? I was playing pinball when the attacks first happened, and I'll be playing pinball at that same time every day forever. It is the only way I know how to keep the memory alive.

I know I'll get modded down for this, but someone had to say something! Go away! Your hatred only makes Slashdot a sad place, and you make me want to cry.

--SC

Re:Visual Pinball + PinMame

[jimrandall]

Will The Who have to come out with a 21st century version of their Pinball Wizard? Electronic Pinball anyone?

If you love pinball, but don't own a table . . .

[Pituritus Ani]

. . . be sure to check out Visual Pinball (which emulates the tables) and PinMAME (which emulates the electronics).

There has been awesome work done--the tables and electronics are emulated to the point that they all work together and are as close to the real thing as you can get without stepping into the arcade.

The downside is that this stuff is very much Windows-centric. So that means I have to reboot to get my fix of Circus Voltaire.

Re:Oh boy!

[Anonymous Coward]

You're just pissed because you thought the story was about you, then realized it didn't say "chinball."

~~~

Old school games

[EvilStein]

I wish I could find some old school games.. I would LOVE to find a working "Sinistar" game.

I used to feed that game so many quarters.. at least it was fun, unlike Gauntlet that just ripped me off. I was only 9yrs old and it took me until level 96 before I realized that it was never going to end until it had driven me into the poorhouse...

Stupid game. :P

Re:Old school games

[JoshMKiV]

MAME does a great job with Sinistar.

"I HUNGER!!!!"

Re:Old school games

[EvilStein]

You're right, but nothing compares to the joystick frenzy... and hearing "Beware! I live!" out of 4 speakers... ;)

Re:Old school games

[Anonymous Coward]

Run, coward!

~~~

Re:Old school games

[JoshMKiV]

Check out the pages on building a MAME machine into an arcade cabinet. You can get the shell of an old game for as cheap as $50, then put in a lowend computer. Mmmm, machine that plays every game...

Re:Old school games

[Anonymous Coward]

http://skyscraper.fortunecity.com/cray/209/
http://stonent.pointclark.net

The second link is more up to date but is down a lot.

I built a mame cabinet. The old shinobi I used only cost me $20.

Re:Old school games

[JatTDB]

That's what ebay is for. No, seriously. I have a fully-working Super Breakout arcade machine, purchased via ebay for $200. It cost another $50 to ship (Forward Air, depot-to-depot) and another $50 to rent a truck to go get the thing from Forward Air's depot. $300 isn't too bad, and 3 years later, it's still working great (except for having to replace a fuse or two on the power supply board). There's some really great deals out there if you look hard enough. Of course, there are games that are just ridiculously priced (I don't think I've ever seen a Ms PacMan cocktail table for less than $1500, or a Star Wars sit-down for less than $2000), but this can be avoided by sticking to games that weren't quite so insanely popular.

Heck, even if you can't find a machine in your price range (and thus can't fulfill the dream of a small in-home arcade that Silver Spoons drilled into our heads), it's easy to find marquee plates and such for cheap. What better way to decorate the abode of a gamer?

Re:If you love pinball, but don't own a table . .

[JoshMKiV]

I bought a new in box Cirqus Voltaire when it went on closeout. Sadly, I sold it two years ago (for much more than I had paid). I really miss the Ringmaster taunting me. If you own a game you love, never sell it!!!

eBay... again.

[alexmogil]

Don't fret, pin owners. A cottage industry of scum and villany (actually people who used to be owner/operators) yet again springs up on eBay for all of your overinflated needs.Need chrome legs for your 1993 Indiana Jones (like I do?) That'll be $200, please.Fortunately the games I bought were as a result of eBay transactions, but not directly through eBay itself. Words of advice, though, for those who want to go to rec.games.pinball:1. Never mention Popeye.2. Avoid John Shields. He'll break every machine's flippers without even touching them.3. Don't admit you own a shopped BK2K or TZ. You'll get hounded with lines of people wanting to play it.

Good call

[flynt]

I need to order new Rubber for my Jack Bot sometime too.

Is it that time of year already?

Re:Good call

[Anonymous Coward]

I too sometimes order "rubbers" for my "Jack Bot" so that while I am "Jack"ing the "Bot" I don't make too much of a mess all over the place.

Re:If you love pinball, but don't own a table . .

[Pituritus Ani]

Ouch :(. That advice goes for computers, too. I sold my first machine, an Ohio Scientific Superboard II when I was a kid. It cost me more than the machine did new to replace it as an adult!

(And, of course, I spelled Cirqus wrong.)

My first pinball game

[Anonymous Coward]

...was played on a Williams Gulf Stream table back in 1975. Nice table.

Re:My first pinball game

[Roto-Rooter Man]

I lost my virginity on one of those. Looking back on things, she was the worst lay I ever had. She just lay there and made me do all the work. Didn't even get a fucking tilt.

More Reading for Slashdotters

[Anonymous Coward]

Here

Profitable?

[kenneth_martens]

I can understand how the popularity of pinball dropped in favor of video arcade games, but it is unfortunate that the manufacturers are no longer producing spare parts. I guess there just isn't any profit in it.

Here's an idea: buy a couple old pinball machines that no longer work and strip them for the parts. Go online to http://www.xmission.com/daina/pinball.html, which (as the article mentioned) has "334 parts for sale ads, but more than 1200 parts wanted ads", and sell replacement parts. If you can get the broken pinball machines cheap, you can make some money and make a lot of people happy. I might do this myself if I had the money--but unfortunately, I spent everything on university tuition.

Re:Profitable?

[Zeinfeld]

Pinball was always profitable, still is. The problem is that the machines need a lot more TLC than a video game these days. To work well a pinball has to be set up properly and maintained constantly.

A coin op can rake in a good profit with a pinball, but maintenance takes much more than a guy to go round and collect the money. Ms Pacman does not get stuck behind a bumper.

Re:Profitable?

[stressky]

I can understand how the popularity of pinball dropped in favor of video arcade games, but it is unfortunate that the manufacturers are no longer producing spare parts. I guess there just isn't any profit in it.

I find that hard to believe... With such a short supply, I can't see any reason why that wouldn't be a good business opportunity for an internet / mail-order company, Even if the parts had to be made by hand (if they couldn't be sourced from scrapped machines)....

Re:Profitable?

[austad]

Some bozo bought the rights to produce parts for the Williams/Bally machines, the problem is, he's been sitting on them for over a year now and not producing a damn thing. The only thing he does is go after people making spare parts and suing them because he holds the rights. I forgot the guy's name now. But it's really annoying.

The cost of parts has skyrocketed. A ramp which cost $45 a year ago is going for $300 now. The Powerball (ceramic instead of steel) for TZ is going for over $100.

Re:Profitable?

[mbstone]

Pinball machines need to be CLEANED and POLISHED regularly in order to play well. If you see a dirty pinball machine, please politely complain to the bartender/arcade manager etc. Thank you for your time.

Re:Profitable?

[DZign]

Gene Cunningham bought the rights to repro williams/bally parts, and I believe he also owns the rights of Capcom. Recently he has also bought a company TAG, which makes playfields. Don't know if he only bought the tools or also the people. Haven't heard anything of new playfields being made.

An original powerball was also over $100 new from Williams when TZ was released, but now cheaper repro powerballs are available for about $40

To the original poster of this thread: there are already enough good, repairable machines being parted.. I'd prefer to see them all fixed..
There are also ftp-sites for scanned plastics, so it's possible to repro parts yourself.

Re:Profitable?

[RembrandtX]

problem is there aren't any machines to rip the 'spare' parts out of.

I been trying to find the left staircase ramp for an addams family that ISNT cracked on the hairpin curve for like 2 years now :(

Re:Profitable?

[jred]

One of my first jobs was in an arcade, and we cleaned the pinball machines 3 times a week, with one of the times being a more extensive workover. And they still went down.

Free video games, though :)

Re:If you love pinball, but don't own a table . .

[JoshMKiV]

Ok, want REAL painful? I bought a stack of comic books for $2 at an auction. One of them was Amazing Fanstay #15. I sold it to buy my first computer (C=64), for about $600. Price now? Yikes...

Ahhhh... the joys of Pinball...

[FatRatBastard]

I've got 10+ computers, four different video game systems and enough electronics to keep Enron from going under, but *nothing* gets played more than the pinball machine. There's just something about pinball that's better than any video game.

{blatent plug}
Major props to Coin-Op Warehouse where I bought my machine. All the machines in the showroom are set to free play, and you can stay after hours as long as you bring a six pack. Its a great way to kill a lunchhour if you're in NVa.

Re:Ahhhh... the joys of Pinball...

[phillymjs]

Yeah, TNT Amusements near Phila, PA is the same way. They actually rent out their showroom for birthday parties and stuff, too.

For a while I was trading in my cabinet games for others every couple of years. I'd always bring a few friends and spend a couple hours in their showroom playing "trying to decide" what I wanted (though it was already decided days before we got there). Heheheh.

The first time I went, nobody was in the showroom and all the machines were powered down. The whole room's power was controlled by about 8 wall switches in a row. Using both forearms, the owner flipped them all on at once. The sound of all those classic machines firing up simultaneously damn near brought tears of nostalgia to my eyes.

~Philly

Re:Ahhhh... the joys of Pinball...

[EvilStein]

"Using both forearms, the owner flipped them all on at once. The sound of all those classic machines firing up simultaneously damn near brought tears of nostalgia to my eyes"

If you did that in California, it would bring tears of "Oh crap, another rolling blackout!" to the eyes of millions. ;)

Hippie.net -- Re:Visual Pinball + PinMame

[Masem]

Unfortunately, just this weekend, the site that most of the Visual Pinball stuff was stored at, hippie.net, was hit with a massive DOS attack (no, not a /. effect). This has forced the person in charge of that site, which apparently was very good and organized, to give up the job, as discussed at one of the forums on vpforums.com. So in case you go looking for files and find a black hole at hippie.net, you need to look elsewhere.

Many years since I played pinball.

[elgee]

Over 30 years in fact. Back in the dark ages, I was addicted to the mechnaical pinball machines. A virtual "pinball" machine will never cut it as far as I am concerned. Doesn't have the feel of a real pinball machine. I do hope lots of folks keep the real thing alive.

Re:Many years since I played pinball.

[Pope]

It hasn't been *that* long since I've played pinball (a couple of months) but my problem is the video-game-ization (yeah, like that's a word) of pinball!
I mean, what the hell is all this 10 Million points for just making a single gate, or trying to hit targets on a red LED screen? You're supposed to be hitting a steel ball around an incline, for F's sake!

Maybe it's my old school blood boiling, but IMO the last decent pinball game made was The Simpsons. I spent a whole heck of a lot of money back in University on that one: great samples, great play action, and none of this crappy videogame extra nonsense.

Damn, I better get a better job soon, I WANT ONE!

Re:Many years since I played pinball.

[Anonymous Coward]

God knows WHY this comment was moderated insightful.

It was Yet Another First Post Attempt.

elgee didn't read the article, and immediately assumed by the headline of "Pinball Wizards on the Internet" that this was a story about online pinball games and "virtual" pinball.

BZZT. It's about people sharing information about their real (yes, real!) machines, as well as parts information and the like online.

It has nothing to do with "virtual pinball" machines. Read the fucking articles.

It *DID* mention Stern Pinball...

[stressky]

Quoted directly from the article on Yahoo (http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020120/wr/colum n_livewire_dc.html) :

"Only one firm, privately-held Stern Pinball (http://www.sternpinball.com/), is still making pinball machines. The Melrose Park, Ill.-based company was spun off from gaming giant Sega Enterprises Ltd (7964.T) when the company left the pinball industry in the late 1990s."

so, the article DOES mention Stern pinball... Though whether it was edited later to add the fact or not, I don't know...

Re:It *DID* mention Stern Pinball...

[RedWizzard]

Yep, it's true. Not only do most Slashdotters not read the articles before commenting on the story, they don't read the articles before submitting the story either.

A really good online pinball reference

[Nathdot]

For all your pinball needs.

MS note: All other pinball is in violation of Microsoft pinball IP.

:)

The Pinball Resource

[KegDude]

I can recommend Steve Young's The Pinball Resource very much.

They bought a bunch of spare inventory when Gottlieb went out of business, although you can get parts, manuals, and kits for all other kinds of brands too.

I was surprised and relieved they had in stock a miniature cue stick for the Cue Ball Wizard pinball my wife got me for Christmas last year. I didn't figure I would be able to find a specialized part like that easily. Cheap, too.

Anyway, highly recommended. Good prices, quick turnaround and easy to deal with.

TILT!

Re:The Pinball Resource

[Anonymous Coward]

Ditto on Steve Young. good source of stuff

Hey

[PlaysWithMatches]

> I need to order newRubber for my Jack Bot sometime too.

Easy there, Taco. Young eyes view this site too, ya know. ;)

Oh dear

[Satai]

I need to order new Rubber for my Jack Bot sometime too.

There are just SO many ways to go with that one.

Safe Sex

[Anonymous Coward]

I am glad your Bot is practicing safe sex.

eliza...

[wildcard023]

And eliza doesn't know what day it is.
Doesn't know who Jesus was or what praying is.
How can he be saved?
From the eternal grave.
eliza can you hear me?
eliza can you hear me?
eliza can you hear me?
How can she be saved?

--
Mike

this comes 3 days after Shivasite died of D.O.S

[mrhide]

D.O.S killed Shivasite which in a year became the #1 Pinball site ... questions remains to the author(s) ...

www.vpforums.com while you wait for a replacement

Re:PINBALL?! After 9/11?!

[spm248]

WTF get over it look busch said (i am not who usually listens to him) to go back to our regular lives and we are so go fuck a dog

Pinball on PCs - Whither Williams - Shrunk Qtrs

[ackthpt]

First computer pinball game I played was Bill Budge's Raster Blaster (which borrowed heavily from an actual pinball machine, which I played, too. IIRC Budge had to settle with Bally for copying it...)

There was a pinball construction set, IIRC, for the C-64, maybe someone's done like for the PC? With the speed of processors this should be a piece of cake, these days.

Now I know I missed something, what happened to Bally/Williams? Bust, buyout, or restructure?

Last, very OT, but if you want any of those cool shrunken coins, check out eBay some are up, including the new Tenn. quarter. Bet it doesn't work in the pinball machine, now.

Re:Pinball on PCs - Whither Williams - Shrunk Qtrs

[achurch]

There was a pinball construction set, IIRC, for the C-64, maybe someone's done like for the PC? With the speed of processors this should be a piece of cake, these days.

Pinball Construction Set was released for the PC, way back around 1985 or so. I think I still have it sitting around, but unfortunately it was designed back in the days when there was only one processor speed, and so it doesn't work on modern CPUs... well, it does, but you can't tell because by the time the next vertical blank comes around your game is over. ;) I had oh-so-much fun with PCS, though, and I'd love to see another program like it.

As for what happened to WMS, they just dropped the pinball business, IIRC. I don't recall the exact reason, but I assume it was just that they weren't making money on it. It may just be that my experience is limited, but particularly since '97 or so I've rarely come across a machine that's even decently maintained, save privately owned ones, and that's obviously going to drive players away. I suppose the operators just got too spoiled by video games that just don't need maintenance...

Re:Pinball on PCs - Whither Williams - Shrunk Qtrs

[Anonymous Coward]

Search the web vor visual pinball, there are a lot of tables (a big bunch of my all time faves...) available for it.
It's win only, but it's a start...

Re:Pinball on PCs - Whither Williams - Shrunk Qtrs

[DZign]

WMS quit because they weren't making *enough* money on pinball machines. They were making money on pinball machines, but their other division (casino games) was/is much more profitable.
(and sales numbers for pinball machines were
decreasing over the last years)

Re:Pinball on PCs - Whither Williams - Shrunk Qtrs

[Saige]

There was a pinball construction set, IIRC, for the C-64, maybe someone's done like for the PC? With the speed of processors this should be a piece of cake, these days.

Hehe - there is. It's called Visual Pinball, located at http://www.randydavis.com/vp/.

It's a pinball construction set like has never been done before. It uses VBScript (yes, I know) to do logic and other such, and can do just about anything a real pinball table can do. And if you want proof that's the case, they've got a version of PinMAME designed especially to link up with Visual Pinball (VPinMAME), and there are dozens of real tables that you can download, pick up the ROMs, and play on Visual Pinball. Not only old classics like Defender, Gorgar, Space Invaders, and Mr. and Mrs. Pac-Man pinball games, but newer ones, including the best two of all time, The Addams Family and Twilight Zone. Both nearly as good as playing the real machine.

how interesting...

[Anonymous Coward]

of course, by interesting, i mean CHELSEA CLINTON = HOT.

Re:how interesting...

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhhh...sure dude. I'll bet you think that Labrador retrievers are hot too.

Re:RedHat???

[cscx]

Yeah, well if RMS had his way, that flaming, fucking heap of monkey shit would be called AOL/Red Hat GNU/Linux.

He ought to shower more often. Seriously. It gives Linux a bad na----

Segmentation fault. Core dumped.
Kernel Panic
Switching to runlevel 0
INIT: Sending termination signals.
The system is going down for reboot NOW!

Remember Pinall Construction Set?

[antdude]

I remember using this program and making my own pinballs on Apple II computers. I remember it lets you make a binary file to give to others. :)

What about Adventure Pinball?

[nilremk]

The guys who made Epic Pinball (Digital Extremes) released a new Pinball game a few months ago, built with the Unreal Engine. Its pretty cool and look great as well. You can find more about it here: http://www.pinball.ea.com/

There's also a free demo available.

Digital Extremes is now working on Unreal Championship and Unreal Tournament 2.

How about Bally PB 2000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Has anyone thought to build a graphics engine to run the PB 2000 game ROMs, since the thing was 90% computer anyway.
Maybe Bally could even be convinced to cough up the source for an open source project.

I miss the hilarious clinton impression from the Mars game.

Jack Bot

[ceswiedler]

You can't get your Jack Bot pregnant, so there's no need to order a new Rubber.

Re:PINBALL?! After 9/11?!

[UserChrisCanter4]

WTF get over it look busch said (i am not who usually listens to him) to go back to our regular lives and we are so go fuck a dog

You know you've had too much beer when it starts telling you to get back to your regular life.

Stern is talked about.

[Anonymous Coward]

At the bottom of the artical. And Pat Larance (sp?) has started working for them, producing Monopoly most recently. Damn fine machine it is.
It bad enough when the commenters don't read the artical, but when the submitters don't...

486

[rice_burners_suck]

I remember once seeing a program on television about modern pinball machines. I was surprised that they actually used a 486 in the pinball machine, with a special "video" card to display stuff on the LED grid display.

Why in the world is a whole 486 needed? I don't see why they couldn't implement the thing using a few cheap 8 bit processors. Oh well.

Re:486

[mookoz]

The only machines to use Intel-class chips were the Williams Pinball 2000 series, and those actually used the Nat Semi MediaGX pentium-compatible chipset.

The majority of games from 1977 to 1990 used Motorola 6800s (an 8-bit chip), games from 1991 to present including the recent Stern games use Motorola 6809s. 8-bit data bus, 16-bit address bus, 2Mhz, custom kernel, nothing else needed.

Re:486

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, most 'modern' pinball machines run a motorolla 6809 processor (or in some cases several). The last few games made by Williams (pin2000) before closing down, had a video monitor at the top of the playfield and used a pc motherboard system (MediaGX).

RE: 486

[xkenny13]

I remember once seeing a program on television about modern pinball machines. I was surprised that they actually used a 486 in the pinball machine, with a special "video" card to display stuff on the LED grid display.

Why in the world is a whole 486 needed? I don't see why they couldn't implement the thing using a few cheap 8 bit processors. Oh well.

Dunno what you were watching, but they're entirely wrong. Late model "true" pinball machines did indeed use 8-bit processors in them ... specifically, the Motorola 6809. Sega games used a 68000 16-bit CPU to run the dot-matrix display (gas plasma, not LEDs), but that was about as complex as it got.

Now, if you wanna talk Pinball 2000 ... then yes, these machines used more "standard" PC-style hardware. Whether it was indeed a 486 or not, I don't know ... but these games came with full-screen color video monitors, not LED displays.

Re:486

[Anonymous Coward]

Moby Dick... Read it... It ROCKS!!!

True enough. The roughly 1/3 of the book that's devoted to only marginally on-topic, incorrect cetology, however, does not rock. Unless you're one of those people who likes Finnegan's Wake simply because you're amused by the idea of the long-dead author's spirit personally laughing at you for reading on.

Re:First Gaping Ass ASCII Art Post!

[Anonymous Coward]

Can I put in an ASCII pron request?

The giant butthole is cool and all, but I'd like some female pron. Preferably lesbian.

Thanks,
AC

Re:I'm a pinball wizard

[Roto-Rooter Man]

Hey Pinball wizard,

Before today, I had thought that I was the Bally table king. But now I see that even at my usual table, you can beat my best. So here, you can have my pinball crown. You sure play a mean pinball!

What's that, you think that's funny? Well, at least I can hear and see, you fucking cripple!

Re:RedHat???

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahahah! The damned thing just rebooted itself!! I wasn't even doing anything on it and all of a sudden BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP and the fucking thing reboots!

Let me guess: opening a file will randomly cause it to reboot! Or maybe CLOSING a file!! Nice kernel, guys!!! Keep up the good work!

Need rubber, eh?

[matusa]

Taco, you really outdid yourself. You need rubber for your jack bot? What
other tools do you require? A good lubricant, I assume.

Web-based pinball

[DanThe1Man]

I found a shockwave pinball game here. Enjoy!

Re:RedHat???

[Anonymous Coward]

Oops, it did it again.

where'd you get that?

[austad]

I need to order new Rubber for my Jack Bot sometime too.

We don't wanna know that you wore out the "rubber" on your "Jack Bot". That's just plain sick.

NYC Pinball

[bbum]

www.nycpinball.org

Or simply email me.

I actually maintain a pinball machine at a local bar to ensure that our company has decent pinball at local bar-- a rarity. The machine is Creature from the Black Lagoon @ The Village Idiot, 9th Ave and 14th Street in Manhattan.

Our company-- CodeFab-- has 7 pinball machines in house. Four currently working, three in restoration mode.

Among the employees we have a bunch more. Personally, I own Dr. Who, Addams Family Gold, Gilligan's Island, Pinbot, and Game Show. A sys admin has a Twighlight Zone and Dracula [awesome game, that].

Just got done rebuilding all four flippers on the Addams Family at the office. Including replacing all bridge rectifiers on the power driver board.

Pinball is an excellent way to take a break from work. It is a digital system-- all machines after 1990 are computer controlled (including the flippers)-- but behaves in a very analog / real world fashion.

BTW: The new Stern machine-- Monopoly-- was *designed* by the same guy who built Addams Family, Monster Bash, and numerous other Williams/Bally classics. Go play it. It is a worthy machine.

Again, anyone in NYC-- check out www.nycpinball.org, sign up on the very low volume mailing list, and join us for the next PinBall BarCrawl!!

b.bum

RE: NYC Pinball

[xkenny13]

BTW: The new Stern machine-- Monopoly-- was *designed* by the same guy who built Addams Family, Monster Bash, and numerous other Williams/Bally classics.

If you mean Pat Lawlor ... then yes, he designed Monopoly, Addams Family, Funhouse, Whirlwind, Earthshaker, Twilight Zone, Banzai Run and No Good Go*fers.

He did NOT do "Monster Bash", however. That game was designed by George Gomez ... not one of my most favored designers, but I did think MB was a rockin' game!!

OTOH, Pat Lawlor (as I understand it) was head of Pinball Engineering down at Williams at the time MB was made, so I'm sure he had a hand in it. He just wasn't the "chief" designer is all...

Go play it. It is a worthy machine.

Absolutely!!!

Re: NYC Pinball

[mookoz]

Pat was never head of Engineering at Williams, and virtually nothing to do with Monster Bash.

Re:NYC Pinball

[TheJerkstoreCalled]

The company that designed Monopoly is Pat Lawlor Design, comprised of the industry kingpins who made games like The Addams Family, Twilight Zone, Funhouse, No Good Gofers, and countless others (although not Monster Bash, sorry.) One of their software guys, Louis Koziarz, even wrote software for Taco's beloved JackBot. Check out their website as well as the Stern Pinball website.

Pinball Rubbers

[Mr. Gus]

"I need to order new Rubber for my Jack Bot sometime too."

Yeah, well, I just go to the drugstore for that. They have a decent selection, with all the usual favorites (lubricated, ribbed, steak-flavoured etc.). You can even get an additional product that I personally enjoy on a regular basis for all those nasty wounds--

"ManDelay - A Male Genital (Pinball) Densensitizer"

Sure...

Want to play pinball...?

[cr0sh]

My wife's mother owns an old machine called "Wild Side", which dates from the early-70s (can't remember who made it, or exact date) - it still plays, but it needs some work (sometimes the ball gets stuck, etc). I am sure it uses ladder logic or some such for control.

After playing it a few times, I started thinking "pinball machines are simple in scope - most of it is a state machine, an inclined plane, and a ball - how hard would it be to build one?"

After thinking a little bit longer, I realized that it wouldn't exactly be easy to build one, and a little research showed it wouldn't be cheap to custom build one, and that it would take a lot of time, but that it was possible.

So, if you can't find or afford your fix, maybe it is time for the pinball hackers to start building the tables themselves. For a start, here is a site I found, but it hasn't been updated in a long while:

Pin-It-Yourself Project

I know there are people out there who have built their own boards and systems - these people should take this site, and expand on it - create a true "build-it-yourself" site and FAQ for pinball table building.

Me? I don't have the room, money, or time to build a pinball table on my own. My restoration time will, someday, go into the refurbishment of a TOMY Atomic Pinball - arguably the smallest "true" pinball table ever made (ok, there may be another, but hey, it's TOMY!)...

My eyes have seen the glory

[Anonymous Coward]

My first job (back in 1980) was working for a pinball arcade in Omaha called Gizmos. It was in the downtown warehouse district ("the old market"), and the owners were rabid collectors of coin-op games. They had a huge collection of pinball machines, as well has some choice jukeboxes and older style arcade games. Many of these games were on the floor, but there was a basement full of machines that were just parted out, waiting for the time when their back glass, cabinet, etc might be needed. However, the choicest bit of all, was the collection kept in the Gizmolium. Imagine a pitch-black, very creepy room (huge room... these were old warehouses), that after you weaved your way through the carcasses of broken machines, was another room created out of 2x4's and chickenwire. Open the padlock, fumble through the darkness for the braker, and flip the switch. Golden light, accompanied by the concophany of about 2 dozen of the choicest, restored machines coming to life. It was pure magic. The owners tried to teach me about restoring pinball machines, teaching me how to strip the boards down, cleaning and polishing the playfield, cleaning the plastics and replacing the rubbers. I learned a bunch, but in hindsight I wish I had studied harder. I remember when the boss got back from the tradeshow in Chicago, telling all about the new "Pac-Man" game he had ordered. And when the first Asteriods machine showed up. Video games were fun, and I ended up working in arcades until the bust in 1985, but nothing has the magic of pinball. We had a room, about the size of a really big bathroom, that had nothing but spare parts. Pop bumpers, posts, new rubbers, flippers, spare balls, it was an amazing collection of doo-dads. I'm sure that room would be worth a mint right about now. My old boss has been a friend for years, and has given me a few nice back glasses over the years, but nothing can compare to that place.

Thank you Wade, Gizmos has a special place in my heart. I just wish I could share it all with you.

Re:My eyes have seen the glory

[Anonymous Coward]

oh and one more thing...

Eight-Ball Deluxe remains on the best games ever. And not the second one with the mini-back glass, but the first one, with the full backglass. One of the first talking pinball machines... (Trivia: What was the first talking pinball machine? What was the first machine with flippers?)

I can still hear it... "Eight Ball Deluxe! Chalk-up!")

Answers: first talking pinball machine? Gogar
First machine with flippers? Humpty Dumpty

"GOGAR SPEAKS!!!" (sfx: thunder)

and for the really anal... Eight Ball Deluxe was a follow up to the popular Eight Ball machine, with the "Fonz" on the backglass shooting pool.

Guns-n-Roses Pinball!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

This was one of the best with its revolver ball shooter. Welcome to the arcade baby an you're gonna spend your allowance!!!

deaf,dumb blind kid sure plays a mean mod point..

[ubugly2]

you should check the link before you mod down,it's actually a good link to the game plus other pinball machines

Anyone making free pinball game?

[Jacek Poplawski]

I was searching freshmeat, linuxgames and other resources for any pinball related projects. There is one pinball, but binary only, and it never changes. I remember Pinball Dreams and other 2D games - I think there were very simple. Probably the hardest part will be good graphics. So - is anyone making free (GPL) pinball game and need help? Or anyone has enough time to contribute?

I repaired zillions of those monsters...

[CosmicOne]

I wonder if there is any value in the knowledge stored in the brains of us soon-to-be-geezers pinball wizards. Not only did I mis-spend my youth playing pinball machines, I worked my way through school repairing them. 200 violently moving parts + abusive players = job security.

I started working on them in 1978 when stuff like Pong and Space Invaders was high-tech. The control circuitry has changed radically over the years - from relays, solenoid steppers, and cams - to sophisticated multi-processor systems. However, the playfields are still filled with precision mechanisms that get bashed with little cannon balls.

Every machine used to come with a little kit of spare parts you could expect to break in the first week, along with a COMPLETE SET OF SCHEMATICS! Really! They were right there in the bottom of the machine. A complete 30+ page large format book of prints with long fold outs for the complex stuff. No "black box" block diagrams - every wire and resistor was shown. They expected you to repair to the component level - not just swap modules. I am getting misty eyed just thinking about how I had all the info I needed to do the job. In these "modern" times, you don't even get a clear diagram of how to hook up the power LED in your new computer case.

In my opinion, the only people truly qualified to repair pinball machines are the addicts themselves. We used to stay late after work the day a new model was delivered. We would put the first one together (these things used to come in lots of pieces and were not trivial to assemble) on our own time. 3 or 4 of us would then play the machine until dawn - stopping now and then to make tweaks. By morning we were completely fried, but had a supreme knowledge of how to tune the machine for playability. More importantly, we could kick ass in the pinball tournaments the bars would sponsor. The bucks we won would more than pay us back for the sleep we lost. Some of the customers would bitch about "professionals" playing in the tournaments, but the bar owners liked the idea of having somebody around who could unlock the machine and unstick a ball or unjam a coin slot.

smoke-filled VFW halls
quart bottles of playfield wax
a giant canvas bank bag full of rubbers
the smell of stale beer and burnt solenoid drivers
soldering iron burns
you: 685,370 everybody else: under 85,000

It was a simpler time...when carpal tunnel syndrome was just "pinball wrist"

Re:I repaired zillions of those monsters...

[swm]

I had a friend who bought old machines, mostly video, but sometimes pinball.

He had one that he was trying to fix; it had a field of (incandescent!) lights addressed by a row/column driver matrix. The driver circuits ran *real* hot--they scorched adjacent components.

He showed me the schematics, and I traced out the driver circuits. Turns out they were *supposed* to run hot. The problem is that to turn on a bulb, you had to turn on 2 transistors: a row driver to pull down to ground, and a column driver to pull up to +15V.

Turning on the row driver is easy: all you need is a couple of volts above ground to drive the base. Turning on the column driver is hard. You need a couple of volts *below* +15 to sink the base current, and then that current has to return all the way to ground, and it generates a lot of heat on the way down.

I'd seen essentially the same problem in the drivers for ultrasound transducers many years before.

As best I could tell, the reason this pinball machine shipped is that the drivers weren't quite hot enough to catch fire.

does this sound dirty to you?

[deft]

"I need to order new Rubber for my Jack Bot sometime"

the blackhawk down post mentioned the "combat jack"....i hope there is no correlation.

WMS is still around, but...

[ScottBob]

All they make anymore is slot machines. See www.wmsgaming.com

UK pinball people

[Anonymous Coward]

Those of you in the UK interested in pinball machines may want to look here:

pinball mania

I have built several.

[aol]

I have built a couple of them.
It is very simple if you just get yourself a keyboard encoder to hook up the joysticks (I recommend the I-Pac).

The best compromise for a display is to get a VGA arcade monitor. As standard PC monitors look too good, while standard res arcade monitors are hard to deal with. I got mine for $100 on Ebay.

Your cabinet is as good as free. Wait for the next amusement industry auction to come to town (www.superauctions.com) and then buy a dead machine ($25 to $50 will be enough). The take that machine home, and sell all the inside parts on ebay. You will recoup your purchase price nearly every time.

Question: Pinball Kits?

[Eagle7]

I know this is a little offtopic, but its about as on topic as it will ever be. ;)

A friend of my father once had a pinball machine that he had built from a kit - sometime in the 70's or 80's I think. From what I've been told, a company used to sell these kits (along with kits for other various electronic things) complete, and you would assemble them. I'd love to have my own pinball machine, and I'd really like to build it, but I have been unable to find such a kit.

Can anyone out there tell me if such a thing exists, or verify that the company who created these kits is long gone? Thanks for any leads you can give.

Arcades should turn to pinball en masse

[weave]

Arcades are dying. They aren't the great places they were in the 70/80s when I was young because, hell, all those great video games are playable in your house. Why blow a lot of quarters?

So arcades are turning more and more floor space over to those stupid games of chance. They are also trying to move to bigger and bigger video games to try to get people more involved in the game (sitting inside, bad VR implementations, etc...)

Arcades should go back to pinball. Pinball is something one can't enjoy in the home without great expense. Computer pinball simulators don't quite cut it (although I gotta admit the vpin implementation of black night 2000 comes damn close). An arcade must offer the customer something they can't get at home. Pinball fits the bill.

All they need to do is do some maintenance on the things. The arcade I used to go to in Christiana Mall in Delaware started out with an entire two walls of pinball games, about 40. Now it's mostly 10 year olds playing "flip to win" and a few fighting games that one can play at home....

Then maybe when Stern starts selling a lot of games, they'll hire better designers and/or some better competition will start back up...

Re:Arcades should turn to pinball en masse

[mookoz]

A good first step would be to get all of you Slashdot readers to close Quake, drain the LN2 from your 40x overclocked P233, shut down your machines, and go out into the sunlight.

That would go a long way towards bringing arcades back.

Re:Arcades should turn to pinball en masse

[Anonymous Coward]

Man, the Christiana Mall arcade closed last year. By the time it shutdown, it had a badly broken copy of Midevil Madness (which is really cool when it works) and one of those damn Pinball200 machines. I think it was the Mars one. Anyway, if you're looking for machines to play around Newark. The Blue Hen lanes bowling alley has Theater Magic (I love that one) and the People's Plaza Regal has three that were just repaired and in pretty good condition: Johnny Neumonic (bad spelling for a bad movie), The Adams Family and South Park. It's right downt he street from work and a great way to while away the lunch hour.

Re:Arcades should turn to pinball en masse

[Chelloveck]

I worked at Capcom Coin-Op during their brief flirtation with pinball. The real problem with pinball in arcades is that they take a hell of a lot of work to maintain. An arcade with 40 pinball machines? That's a full-time employee just to clean the damn playfields if you want them in top condition.

What's the maintenance on a vid? Wipe the screen with windex and empty the coinbox. What's the maintenance on a pin? Clean the playfield. Clean the glass. Check for stray objects. Adjust switches. Replace bulbs. Rotate and replace rubbers. Align drop targets. And heaven help you if you have a pin with really neat, but really fragile, special mechanical parts!

And what happens when the machine gets old and you want to make way for new games? Video cabinets can be re-used. Slap a new mobo in there and put a new marquee up and you're good to go. Not so with pinball machines. There's no practical way to gut one and upgrade it to a new machine. You can do it, but it costs way more in labor than just buying the new machine outright.

Don't get me wrong. I love pinball and would really like to see it make a comeback. But it takes lots of time and a dedicated technician to keep them running and fun.

Oh well. Time to go down to my basement and fire up my Black Knight and Big Bang Bar.

Re:Arcades should turn to pinball en masse

[weave]

I don't disagree, but why go to an arcade to play a video game? You must admit that arcades aren't the profitable crowd getters that they used to be, mostly because of the proliferation of equal-quality home video game systems.

Methinks, for an arcade to return to profitability, it must provide something not found in a typical home game system. VR systems is one thing, Pinball another. VR systems take up gobs of space and often require an operator to man them all the time. Pinball requires high maintenance.

Maybe the arcade scene is really dead and hopeless then. I hope not.

Re:Arcades should turn to pinball en masse

[Saige]

And what happens when the machine gets old and you want to make way for new games? Video cabinets can be re-used. Slap a new mobo in there and put a new marquee up and you're good to go. Not so with pinball machines. There's no practical way to gut one and upgrade it to a new machine. You can do it, but it costs way more in labor than just buying the new machine outright.

That was one of the goals of Williams' Pinball 2000 system. You could swap out all of the parts easily, to turn it from one pinball to another in just a few minutes. The entire playfield came out as one piece, and the processor and ROMs were on cards, and could also be changed rapidly.

Re:Arcades should turn to pinball en masse

[nasalgoat]

If you're interested in selling that Big Bang Bar, I'll offer you $15,000 US for it. You can email me privately from the email on my webpage.

Re:Arcades should turn to pinball en masse

[Chelloveck]

My minimum bid is, "Pay off my mortgage." Which, at the moment, is about 10 times your offer... :-)

Re:Arcades should turn to pinball en masse

[klui]

You forgot the chore that took up the most time, according to a friend who ran an arcade in the distant past: wax the playing surface.

Re:Arcades should turn to pinball en masse

[nasalgoat]

They can be had for $20,000, so no thanks. Just thought I might score a deal.

No pinball machine will ever be worth $150,000 *ever* no matter how rare.

Re:Arcades should turn to pinball en masse

[Chelloveck]

That is, of course, the point of such a price tag. I don't really want to sell; that machine represents a year and a half of my life. ("Don't think of it as getting laid off," said my wife. "Think of it as having gotten paid for a year and a half to program your own machine.") On the other hand, if someone is foolish enough to pay such an exorbitant amount, who am I to stop them? :-)

Competitive pinball - Pinburgh June 21-23, 2002

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.pinburgh.com/

The last remaining event specifically for competitive pinball. Thirty-five hours of competition. Total prize package $6000.

The tournament runs every June in Pittsburgh. If you enjoy pinball, don't miss it.

Kevin

Poor spelling once again

[Anonymous Coward]

I need to order new Rubber for my Jack Bot sometime too.

Jackboot, it's spelled. Jackboot

My pinball experience

[kirkb]

My wife and I recently decided that it would be cool to get a pinball machine. Mr Pinball's site was a great resource, and helped me decide to get a old electromechanical (EM) machine instead of a newer, solid-state (SS) one. If an EM breaks, it's likely that a physical component is at fault (switch, spring, solenoid, etc). If an SS breaks, I think there's less that I can do about it.

I checked around ebay and a few other places, and figured that a decent, playable EM would cost about $1000 (in California). I ended up finding Space Odyssey for $250. It's barely playable, and in poor cosmetic condition. It'll be my evening/weekend project for a few months. The repairs should cost much less than the $750 that I saved.

The first thing that I did was order schematics, a manual, rubber rings, and new flippers from The Pinball Resource. I've since ordered a bunch of other stuff from him. And rec.games.pinball is great. Every time I've had a problem, I get responses within hours. They've helped me out at least two or three times this week alone (flipper rebuild, broken "drained ball detect" switch, unexpected slam tilt/short-circuit). Currently, I've got the machine disassembled for cleaning and waxing.

In short, I would never have purchased my pinball machine unless I found the kind of resources that I did online. Rebuilding a '67 camaro or a monster truck may be a macho thing to do, but restoring this pinball machine seems like the equivalent geek activity.

Being a Pinball Geek

[RembrandtX]

I love pinball, always have. Been playing it since the 70's when arcades were dimly lit, grungy holes in the side hallways of malls [or the basements of bowling alleys] where the walls were covered in carpet to cut the noise.

The silverball has always won my heart, because - if your good . you can play for hours. Robotron, great game - but I remember overhearing an operator at my local arcade say 'Yeah .. crank that difficulty up .. all the way' on saturday. At least with a pinball machine .. you saw what you were up against.

As for their demise .. well .. Cleaning and maintaing them really is a labor of love. As more and more arcades became huge chains, with corporate # employees, they cared less and less about the machines. The individual arcade operator had to buy their own machines, so they took care of their investment. The kids making $4.25 an hour in the 80's couldn't be bothered.

And lets face it .. I own five machines (kept in my basement) all mid 90's games .. and they are a PAIN to keep clean sometimes. My Attack from mars EATS bulbs.

But two real kickers helped put the nail in the coffin I think :

Street Fighter II, and WMS' reaction to it.

Street Fighter II was a phenenomon (With mortal Kombat on its heels). A $3000 arcade machine (about the same price as a new Pin at the time) was making $2000-$3000 in coins a week, EASY ! Never before had a machine been able to pay for *ITSELF* in a single week of operation .. when you included in the costs of 2 new joysticks a month (and 2-3 buttons) your still WELL into the black.

This put a lot of $$ in a lot of operator's pockets .. whom .. I must say .. probally didn't deserve it. Business wise i mean. If 'bill's arcade' is run by Bill , a guy who pays for his girlfriend's car out of the till - then wonders why he cant pay rent - we'll its no surprise when he goes out of business. Now all the Bill's of the world have 1/2 a dozen street fighter machines that are giving them phat cash every week- and can hold on. Do they buy different machines, and revitalize their arcades ? no .. they buy more Street Fighter Machines .. after all THATS their cash cow. [forgetting the pinball machines that kept them afloat before SF II came along]

[this same phenonomin happened with Comic Book shops in the early 90's with Magic Cards - Many hole in the wall shops that should have died - we're given free 'fad' $$ .. and did stupid things .. like 50% discounts, or whatever to try to keep up with all the idiots making a quick buck out of their garage because the $$ was good. The closest example today would be the folks on E-Bay that were selling X-Box Boxes, easy $$ .. once one managed it .. about 60 other people jumped on the bandwagon in about 10 mins.]

WMS' reaction to this was 'we gotta make pinball machines *MORE* fun !! Twilight zone, the ungodly beast that it is .. has MORE stuff stuck on it (breakable stuff mind you!) than almost any other pin. They made GREAT $$ for operators, while they worked. Thats the key phraze, while they worked. As Bally,Williams and Bally/Williams put more and more 'gimmics' on the machines (talking heads anyone?) they broke easier and easier.

Of course that cost more .. so pin prices went up, thats one of the REAL kickers, to compeate with cheap video games .. pins started to cost more. Mid - late 90's .. running out of cash .. they got back to the basics. Compeating on price of machine rather than interest level. and *POW* they started making $$ again. Attack from Mars was HUGELY successful [just TRY to find one with a decent playfield .. i was damn lucky with mine.] and it was a stripped (narrow) playfield.

The end all though .. was a business decision. Do you manufature 'fruit' machines ? [for casinos] that you can sell for $12-15k a pop by the hundred ? or pinball machines where the manufacture count is 1,000-2,000 machines that sell for under $4k each ?.

At least we still got Stern pinball .. trying .. Hopefully Monopoly will dig them out of the hole their last few games put them in. [it plays more like a bally/williams machine than any of their previous tries.

Re:Being a Pinball Geek

[Anonymous Coward]

Not quite. Compare older pinball machines vs the newer ones. What you'll find is that as time passed pinball machines got slightly narrower (many machines) and the slope got sharper (all machines). And later machines added all sorts of useless crap (ramps/heads/thingamabobber) that just got in the way. Now while some hardcore pinball players may find the newer machines were 'harder' and thus more fun for them to play, casual or first time players only got one thing. An empty wallet. The newer machines were NOT user friendly, and at $0.75 (Average) a play, watching the ball move smoothly and quickly between the flippers without touching them while you wail on the buttons helplessly sucked hard.

You can see where an attempt to 'tilt' the odds on the favor of the arcade owners pockets alienated the actual players of the arcades and thus their demise was a given. You can see where the Fighting/Driving/Shooting games are going the exact same direction right now also. Simply put people got greedy and tried dipping into the well too often for players to stomache or afford. Hence home game consoles took up all the slack.

As for electronic pinball on the console/computer...nadda....it's gone because most of it just sucked. I DO NOT want to play the same crap pinball I left the arcades for on my new computer/console. Instead I still play two of the best pinball video games ever made for a home console. Hardcore pinball players may disagree, but I think these two are the most fun you can have electronically. They are: Devil's Crush && Alien Crush for the TurboGraphx 16. They're not perfect, (Alien Crush has an annoying screen flip, but you learn to ignore that easily) but more importantly they are FUN. Something the last round of mechanical pinball WASN'T.

Re:Being a Pinball Geek

[RembrandtX]

heh .. all pinball machines around 1991 (which is when what you describe started to REALLY happen) we're able to be set [coins/credits] by the Operator. Of course .. that price could have been decided on greed .. or set higher to offset rising pin costs.

but yes .. i agree to the point that this is when they started adding a lot of stuff: flashers, ramps etc. {to make the game look more fun, and enticing .. and yes .. to make them harder to keep people coming back.) If you were to be given ONE pin today .. would you rather a Twilight Zone ? or a Dracula ? I know which you would get more re-play out of.

as for pitch .. thats back to the operator's choice .. a greedy arcade would put it at 7 degrees or higher.But balley's manuals *ALL* say that the recommended field pitch is 6.5 degrees .. not the machine .. but the playing field itself.

Space between the flippers ? well . that COULD be the operator (i know many who used to change the default bally/williams flippers for ones that were about 1 CM smaller. But yeah .. there was a trend in the early 90's of more space between the flipprs .. of course .. thats when you started seeing timed ball saves too .. so if you drained in the first 20 seconds or so .. you get a free ball back. Old/worn rubbers will do you in to .. taking 5-10 mm off the flipper.

as for pinball machines getting narrower ? well of course .. after the super-sized pins like Indiana Jones and Twilight Zone (which i believe clocked in as the widest) of course they got smaller. but as they got smaller .. the flippers got closer together.

My altogether favorite Pin is still Attack from Mars (which I own, amongst a few others) Its a narrow machine .. one of the last 5 designs made. And is good for the full gambit of player .. novis up to wizard. a new player can shoot targets and make stuff happen, while a wizzard trys to compleate all the 'challenges' to 'beat' the game.
I have owned this game for over a year, and have yet to beat the wizard mode (of course .. i have it set to factory default (hard) settings, and im not the best pin player in the world.)
but i have put over 3000 games on it. Thats a lot of replay, from just one person.

Hell .. Theatre of Magic .. i can keep a ball going HOURS on that machine .. it barely fits between the flippers when they are both down ;P

Re:Being a Pinball Geek

[Anonymous Coward]

Indiana Jones and Twilight Zone? HAH! A local game place had a "Hercules" pinball machine. Damn thing uses CUE BALLS (from pool tables) instead of the wimpy little steel ones. Now that one had a WIDE table.

Moderators, WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this off topic?
The discussion is about pinball....!

Meta-moderators take note...

Bride of PinBot..........

[Diabolical]

Ah... well... past times and memories....

Pinburgh - $6000 tournament every June!

[siobHan]

http://www.pinburgh.com/

Thirty-five hours of genuine competitive pinball play in three divisions.

- sn

pinball

[Acker_42]

pinball collection is at www.arcadeshopper.com under my collection.. also buy sell trade and locate games if anyof you slashdotters want any, This plus a little consulting is keeping me alive after the layoff in march so any support from you guys is greatly appreceated.. Greg

Re:Here's the jackbot-MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

mod this up, you mods are being stupid assholes.
it has relevant info for somebody wondering what Cmdr-Taco's "jackbot" is.
Jeebus would be ashamed of you...

Re:RedHat???

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of the problems you cite (apps that should be stable crashing, FS corruption on a production kernel) make it sound like you've got bad RAM or a questionable I/O subsystem (the unkillable RPM process is a result of a non-returning I/O call). Try using good hardware 'fore you question the OS.