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Raisethefist.com Raided
mfb and others wrote in about a raid on the operator of raisethefist.com last week. It was first reported on Indymedia.org here and here, followed by an LA Weekly article. By far the best news piece so far is this one from Newsbytes.
And poof, overnight, our world has changed into this.
Sci-Fi is coming true, yeah?
I don't see it changing anytime soon, either..
Terrorists want to kill us all. Planet Corporate wants to own all knowledge and charge us for it. Government wants to label everything that is not consistent with the propaganda being spouted on CNN as "Evil" and throw us all in jail.
Anyone have any paranoid predictions they'd like to share where this is all going?
No, kiddies, I don't think Linux will save you.
mje0w!!!1!
So this guy is actively cracking and defacing websites, including attempting to break into Army systems, and he's whining about being arrested?
Next person who whines that he's the victim of the fascist Ashcroftian regime gets beat over the head with a clue-by-four. I'd be pretty pissed if he was hacking my site "so he could get his message out." What a loser.
If it ain't broke, you need more software.
Before Slant-Six sank, they had an interesting article on how to confuse the future terrorists. Put up anarchist sites, but provide bogus info. Setup bomb-making instructions that make silly putty or something. The more sites like that that pop-up, the less likely a terrorist will discover the correct bomb-making papers. The point is to fight terrorists by making the internet a place that they can't trust...
I wonder how the FBI would react to those kinds of sites...
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Is it really any more complicated than that?
Yeah, they're using more muscle than what they needed. They really didn't need to seize all of his political literature, unless maybe they consider it evidence of his highly anti-establishment attitude.
It all seems a bit extreme. But didn't he break the law? Isn't the law a good one? I mean, how many of us really want our neighbors and other assorted yokels having the knowledge to construct bombs out of legally available materials? I'm not so sure I want that available to everyone.
It's one thing to have and even construct guns. Bombs are a whole new level though. It may infringe on his free speech rights, but his free speech can easily lead to depriving someone else (or many others) of their lives.
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
If the site was about peaceful protest, eg marches and sit-ins then I'd have a problem with it being shut down. But it wasnt about peaceful protest from what I can gather. So I beleive the investigation is fully justified.
The hypocritical sheep mentality on this site is really beginning to piss me off. We're up in arms about a software company abusing it's monopolistic status, we shout from the heavens about our so-called righte being taken away. But who does anything about it? Who says anything? Who does anything but bitch on this website?
This 18-year old kid got into some political literature and posted a website detailing his views on what the US government is doing both domestically and internationally to create to the best of their ability a global imperialism. Maybe you agree with his methods, maybe you don't. But it is his constitutional right to express his views in whatever way he deems appropriate. It is not the Government's right to say "Peaceful, organized protest is OK, but anything else (like posting a call to action website) is illegal and we will kick in your door with machine guns and drag you out of your house." Give me a break. To equate domestic political disagreement with terrorism sounds more like Communist China (Tienamen Square, anyone?) than the United States. I think all of us have forgotten why this country was founded in the first place:
"all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed....whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
E-mail me, don't hide behind moderation!
El riesgo vive siempre!
I'm not commenting on whether or not someone should post this information on a website.
I would like to mention that material on how to make bombs has been in circulation since before the internet, and it will be in circulation even if all the sites with HOW-TO's get taken down.
Also, how many Afghani terrorists have internet accounts? I mean other than John Katz's friend?
Whether or not I agree with the information being available on-line, I do not feel that it puts our freedom in any sort of jeopardy.
--xPhase
The following sentence is TRUE. The previous sentence is FALSE.
I'm losing my patience and sympathy for idiots that claim some kind of political significance in pipe bomb recipes out there. I'm sick and tired of 18 year old kids spitting the rhetoric of "risking everything" one minute and then whining about a visit from the Feds the next. Go get a fucking education and accomplish something in this world.
I consider myself to be an anarchist, or at least anarchy comes closer to expressing my political ideals closer than modern liberalism (whatever the fuck that means) or libertarianism or the green movement (european or US).
And I'm sick to death of these violent children. Look, a shocking new political ideology: impose your ideas on others through violence! Yeah we're changing the world here. Go fuck with some Fat Cat Club meeting, let CNN get the footage to prove to everyone that you're just a bunch of violent thugs, whine about getting gassed on your protest websites. Oh look, you're wearing nikes.
I hope this moron winds up in jail. These morons do far more harm than good.
Actually, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that advocating violence is unlawful only when it poses a "clear and present danger" to safety.
His legal scrape is not due to advocating violence per se, but due to distributing bomb-making instructions, which falls under different laws.
Of course, there have been plenty of organizations who have had their offices raided and property seized for what they have SAID, and from what I understand the FBI has the power to keep your stuff even if they never charge you with a crime. That just wasn't the case this time.
"The United States of America is all for free speech. It's also a democracy, where you can elect a new government to install new laws if you disagree with the current state of affairs. Elected officials (who presumably represent a majority of the populace) will eventually populate the group responsible for interpreting the Constitution, the Supreme Court. Therefore, in a theoretical sense (before you start screaming about corporate america owning the politicians), the people do control the government."
Yeah, in a "theoretical sense". Please tell me what is the hypothetical ethical thing to do when a presumably "democratic" system is actually entirely corrupt to the point that you *cannot peacefully effect any change in the direction you want*. Hmmm? According to you one enters the realm of "terrorist".
Sure this kid might've been stupid and actually *done* something illegal - but just think of the precendent this sets. This sends the message to anybody who is vocal about disagreeing with US policy: "We will crack down on you HARD". This obviously has a "chilling effect".
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Actually that is pretty funny. (The web site, not the vandalism) This guy isn't protesting an oppressive government. This guy is unable to distinguish the difference between the real world and the X-files. As soon as someone protesting the government starts mentioning UFOs and the Illuminati then you know the guy isn't playing with a full deck.
I consider myself very strong to the left, but I've been running into these types myself, and all they do is scare people into moving to the right. They're more interested in indulging their own satisfaction at being "rebels" than in actually effecting any social changes.
> I think YOU actually need to read some history, it certainly is okay to advocate violence.
The rules of the Constitution do not apply to the Revolutionary War, since the Constitution did not exist at that time. Also, the Founding Fathers were considered terrorists and criminals by the then-in-power government, namely the English royalty. Lastly, neither the British monarchy nor the U.S. Constitution say it's okay to advocate violence, and both governments have criminalized it. It's just that there are parts of the Constitution that make it difficult for the U.S. government to eliminate the means for violent revolution so that if things got bad enough the people could revolt against the government again.
Still, all of this is tangential to the original charge, which is defacing web sites, which he admitted. And, the punishment he's undergone so far was confiscation of his computers and documents and questioning for six hours. This is not only not extreme, it's not even all that severe. As to the raid, there's nothing that says the FBI can't show up at your house with a dozen tanks to make an arrest. They're just not allowed to use more force than is necessary to make the arrest safely. Since there's no mention that they shot up his house or used explosives to crack the door, I don't see anything out of line legally.
Virg
I don't advocate criminal activity in the name of protest. Our gorvernment is a carefully built system that DOES allow for public protest and change.
However, I don't entirely disagree with this guy's ideas. I don't like corporate control, don't like invasions of third world countries under certain guises and abhor inhumane treatment of any "citizen of the world". Does anyone here on slashdot know of an organization that tracks this kind of development and news but holds a less violent point of view?
______________
I'm reasonably leftist/radical myself, certainly at american standards. So, my first impulse is to feel sort of sorry for the kid, and feel anger for the cops.
About his political views:
The kid isn't very smart. He also hasn't much interesting to say.
Lot's of things he is against, and almost nothing that he is for. That is always a sure sign of the wrong kind of punkers/leftist/idealists or whatever americans would call this type of people.
The "right" kind of leftist is harder to find and is usually doing hard work for their ideals.
About his methods:
He shouldn't have kept all those computers at home, he should have hosted his stuff offsite in the first place. Or at freenet or something equally elusive.
So as a revolutionist he isn't very effective. Basic survival of the fittest at work, I would say.
About him as a person:
I view this kid simply as a malcontent adolescent. He is only crying for attention, and now he got it. In fact, the people who raided his home did him a favour, if I think about it:
Look at all the attention he got!
Also, he already had the opinion that all police/secret service etc. are fascist bastards anyway, so now that they come raid him, he accuses them of overreacting and being meanies generally.
Well, duh!
Like I said, he is not very smart, like most of his kind
-------------------------------------------------
UNIX isn't dead, it just sme
There is one hell of a difference between posting instructions on how to make a home grown fertilizer bomb on a web site that is attempting to incite people to taking down the government and some 40 year old virgin librarian with a technical manual on how to make a hydrogen bomb in the local library. Last I checked, you can buy fertilizer anywhere. U235 and other fun stuff is much harder to come by. This little dousche bag was a moron. From the moment he started it, all the way through. He is going to get it from big brother, just not the big brother he was thinking of...
[QUOTE]
In the interview, Austin acknowledged that he vandalized the Web sites and that he knew it was illegal to do so. But he defended the act by saying it was necessary to get his message out.
..snip..
According to Austin, he has been targeted by the government simply because he advocates social justice.
"If I go to jail, then I will go to jail not based on my actions, but based on what I think," he said.
[/QUOTE]
This is bullshit. He's going to jail because he defaced websites. This guy thinks he's above the law, and appears to be amazed that he was arrested. That's like saying that it's ok to vandalize a store because you don't like the people who own it. And then when the cops show up and take you away, saying that they're arresting you because you're being oppressed.
Advocating the violent overthrow of the state should not be illegal. To be sure raisethefist did that, but what all the quotes from the FBI spokespersons *say* he is being nabbed for is for publishing info on bomb-making. That is definitely NOT illegal. I've also seen reports that Sherman "anti" was engaged in cracking or site-defacement or something. If so then why haven't they charged him with that?
Two things.
1) Apparently, distributing information on constructing weapons over the Internet is now illegal under the PATRIOT Act. You don't actually have to build them, or even advocate building them (although the Reclaim guide was neutral on this point). Just publishing the info is good for a charge should the feds decide you're worth taking down.
2) There was a "computer fraud and abuse" charge, and I think this is what the website defacement falls under. I can't defend attacks against sites or people; my aggressiveness ends at self-defense against an immediate attack.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
I had to laugh when I saw this on indymedia: Bill White who is a constant neo-Nazi troll on indymedia has (he claims) reached a deal with Sherman to host raisethefist on his own server www.overthrow.com
I have no confirmation of this story but here is the link to his unpleasant website www.overthrow.com which focuses around anti-Zionism as an explanation for everything.