Slashdot Mirror
TiVo Watches the Super Bowl
Boone^ writes: "While millions of people were seeing a tremendous football game, TiVo was busy collecting statistics about the Super Bowl viewing habits of its subscribers. Based on a random sampling of 10,000 of the 280,000 subscribers, they found out that Pepsi/Britney was the subject of the most replayed Ad(s), and not surprisingly the play that got the most attention was Vinatieri's game-winning FG."
In the article I read on this in the morning paper, it said the ads were replayed more than plays from the game.
Now there's a commentary on why people watch the Super Bowl...
---Any philosophy that can be put "in a nutshell" belongs there.---
And we're shocked that the same male geeks who would actually fork over the money for TiVo enjoyed looking at Britney the most, too!
Clearly the whole point of the survey was for them to say "Hey advertisers! Look! This technology is a GOOD thing for you, not a BAD thing."
Of course, one of the reasons people watch the Superbowl is FOR the ads. I don't think I've ever watched a single ad when fast-forwarding through Battle-Bots.
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
You are most welcome to opt-out of this data gathering.
I leave it on because 1)I believe them when they say they only aggragate the data and 2)It's an important part of their business model and I want them to succeed.
So everyone is cool with this then? I haven't seen a major /. story of Tivo aka Big Brother. Shouldn't this be under YRO?
Wooden armaments to battle your imaginary foes!
TiVo Watches the Super Bowl... ...and horny geeks watch Britney. :)
I'd rather like to know how many people fast-forwarded to skip through commercials. I would have!
Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
Tivo owners watch the Super Bowl? But...but...sunlight, outdoors...sports...
I don't know, it doesn't seem right. Shouldn't they be downloading Linux or trying to destroy the WTO or something?
What's this world coming to...
...but it's being eaten...by some...Linux or something...
Because now they know how many people flip when ads come one, and how many people don't flip, but how accurate are those stats? Maybe the people that don't flip are getting a beer from the fridge, or going to the bathroom, or the remove is out of reach...
There are countless reasons that I might leave an ad playing or change channels during the ads, other than just "like to watch that ad/don't like to watch that ad".
I'm with you. Something is kind of spooky when you get a little PPV spice channel and they know how many times you rewound to see the money shot.
If your not cheating your not trying. If your not trying your not winning and if your not winning why play?
I *want* tv companies to know what I like to watch, and advertisers to know that I almost always skip their adverts because they are dull and pointless.
I don't want them to know that the data comes from *me*, but I certainly have no objection to them knowing what is watched so maybe they'll make more programs I like.
This is a *good* thing.
Sig is taking a break!
Since there's quite a few people outside the USA who didn't get to see the offical superbowl adverts, could someone list (or link to) this year's highlights?
All I've heard about so far is some undefined beer advert, but apparently that wasn't the only popular one.
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
Does anyone remember the premise of the show? TV Reporters only get to be on-air for as long as people are watching. The networks have big control rooms with real-time statistics of watchers. If the bar graph goes too low, you get pulled. With enough TiVo units, the networks could get the instant feedback they really want. Imagine TV lineups changing weekly, daily, hourly in direct response to viewers desires based on their TiVos. Scary, isn't it?
I think...I think it's in my basement. Let me go upstairs and check. -M.C. Escher (1898-1972)
http://www.ifilm.com/superbowl
Although alot of the various companies also have their ads up on their corporate sites
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Just to elaborate on the other responses...
Tivo gave us a VERY detailed message about this... along with a very easy opt-out system. They outlined that the information being collected was purely statistical and would not be linked to an individual user. I thought they handled it well.
Turn s60 photos into awesome videos with mScrapbook for all S60 3rd edition phones!
You know if your *really* worried about this then
you should cancel all of your credit cards and move
to the deep woods now. Many companies can already
find out detailed and personal information about you
just by looking at the data they already have in
their databases.
Ever shop at Walmart? Someone I know made a sales
call to a top IT manager at Walmart a *few* years
ago. It was his second trip there. During the
intial banter the IT manager asked the guy if he
rembered his toothbrush this time. Apparently
the guy did a query on all of his recent purchases
and noticed that among his purchases on his last visit was a toothbrush. It totaly blew my freinds
mind.
Many businesses have just this kind of detailed
info on you already. They're only going to collect more and more, and there's not much you
can do about it unless you become a hermit.
I don't want to hear it if you a) don't have a Tivo and b) haven't looked into what exact data they collect.
Privacy people tend to get all spazzy on here, and work everyone else up into a tizzy, and in the case of Tivo, its not even remotely warranted.
This sort of thing is what keeps Tivo going. This is a new market and it takes a long time to start breaking even. I have zero problem with Tivo doing this, if it allows me to continue using their service which, frankly, I can't imagine having to do without.
Tivo has been a company that from day one has been extremely concerned about privacy rights, and open communication with their users. If you spend any time browsing the Tivo forums at http://www.tivocommunity.com you'll see that not only do they have a powerful support presense, they are very open about what they collect, how its analyzed, and how its sold. People in the underground community independantly verified what they were saying.
So, basically, everyone relax. Step away from the keyboard, and go unpause Jerry Springer on the Tivo. That's where the real excitement is, not here.
Stop the FUD - you know you can. Anonymous, opt-out, what's the problem?
Jeff
Those backdoors aren't anything new, nor is the knowledge that they log data about viewers viewing habits. Keystroke logging is how they do it. (Its far more accurate -- but keep in mind that Tivo doesn't know, even remotely, what commercials you may or may not be fast forwarding through, so they don't have any useful info about you at all!) Tivo has NEVER hidden the fact. They have been extremely upfront with it in their terms of service and on their website.
Its your own damn fault if you didn't read up on it. But keep in mind before you start calling for some silly protest, that Tivo doesn't correlate information they gleem with who it came from -- only from where they are from, and the provide that data in aggregate to networks who actually *know* what commercials and such were being shown. So if the networks know that 20% of people in 02139 actually stopped to watch the new Volkswagon commercial during a rerun episode of Will and Grace, how does that impact your privacy in the slightest? Volkswagon doesn't know who you are. NBC doesn't know who you are. Tivo doesn't know you were watching a Volkswagon commercial. So where's the problem?
The only way (IMHO) networks could aviod people flipping when ads come on would be to synchronise them. If all the stations play ads at exactly the same time, flipping would do no good. Of course, this would mean the networks would have to work together.
I am a Karma Library.
So who's the plastic surgeon then?
Steve M
...who don't get to watch the Superbowl commercials, be sure to check out ifilm.com's Superbowl Page where you can check them out.
I first found out about the since deceased AdCritic by looking for a place to check out the SB commercials, and it looks like these guys have filled that void for me.
For those of you who aren't aware, Canadian cable companies cut out the American commercials and insert our own, unique brand of crap in their place.
At least this year, there was a game worth watching!
$0.02 (CDN)
And if that's not enough for the terminally paranoid amongst you... It's a *nix box, so you could always make the necessary mods to gain access and symlink syslog to /dev/null.
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
I never miss any of my favorite shows anymore, and there is always something good on TV, no matter what the time and day. Maybe if enough Tivo users watch a particular show then it won't be cancelled. It seems that they always cancel my favorite shows before it even lasts a single season. SPOOOOOON! That's why I participate in the stats gathering.
:)
I am working for a start up and have long hours, but I still get to see every one of my favorite shows.
It can only record one channel at a time, but worse case I could always get my VCR to record a second show if I wanted to. There are rarely 2 shows on at the same time that I want to watch. I am lucky if there is one show on that I want to watch, so Tivo has really made tv watching fun again.
One of the cool things that it can do that a VCR can't is that you can watch a recording, while Tivo is recording another show.
It can only record about 15 hours of video at medium quality. I am going to put in the extra 80GB hard drive so that I can record another 60 hours of medium quality video. I want to record and store entire seasons of my favorite shows and then store them as DiVX on DVD-R. I should be able to fit about 9 hours of VHS quality video on every DVD-R
One of the cool things that Tivo could allow is that they could put on less popular shows on at 4am in the morning, and anyone that really wants to watch the show can have Tivo pick it up. It would also be cool to put on education classes on at night, or on a particular channel.
-- Never make a general statement.
The actual level of data collected is way more than just what channel you are watching, the data is so specific it can tell how many times and what time you pressed any button on the remote at any time, be it volume control ,pause buttons anything!
This data to advertisers is known as "gold dust"
advertisers could find out things like:
did you watch their advert if so how many times
did you forward or rewind it if so how far
did you cut the volume if so for how long
did you flip channel if so did you flip it back
when you flipped what advert did you see on the other channel
and just about any viewing habit data they choose , and guess what , your paying a subscription for this service so for Tivo this is a win win win situation and must be laughing in their condos on malibu beach.
now this report is rather biased towards privacy and some say the report is flawed blah blah but the actual captured data logs are not.
Now whereas the data is "anonomous" it is linked to subscribers via postcode/zipcode and certainly here in the UK if i give my postcode to some companies they can tell exactly which house iam living in , not totally anonomous, and after all, they only need to know what the "house" is watching as everyone sits down and watches the same program together so individual advert profiling would be irrelavent.
devices like Tivo could work without selling this data to advertisers but the might hand of marketing is pretty good at persuasding poor companies that the financial recompence is worthwhile.
IMHO the whole point of a Tivo is data collection hence right from the start the units have been designed as profiling devices capturing all available statistical data, i mean what use is recording when i press volume buttons in determining that the simpsons is on and if i would like to watch it ?
the sooner people complain and see these companies for what they really are the better
It doesn't make sense to hide what you watch at all. Tivo can report back stuff to companies of what exactly are on peoples subscription lists and TV shows can stay on the air longer, and the sucky shows can just go die. They can also tell advertisers what commercials you really hate. Girls with bouncy breats is OBVIOUSLY going to be more popular than any other ad, but still...
That's because it can upload back through the satellite. :-)
Incidentally, how is the equipment? I'm considering getting one, but I still wish Rogers would build a TiVo into their digital cable terminals.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
...is that I pay them for shitty program information that's a tenth of the quality of that which I already get with my digital cable box. TiVo has been slow in acknowledging the lineup changes in our digital service and has a few triply-multiplexed channels in the lineup where there ought not to be. So $10/month gets me this service, but at the same time they're making money on this goldmine that they're collecting and publishing reports about. Think about it--they are one step from offering up customized information to the networks for a fortune. And I'm supposed to pay for crap lineup information AND have all my personal viewing habit data sent to them so they can sell it to advertisers and networks? No thanks.
Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
I wonder if they gathered the stats for everyone who was expecting Malcom in the Middle to record and ended up GETTING the Superbowl instead? Ah HEM... I got the first 2 minutes of the show though!
I admit I haven't been following the tivo thing too closely, and I knew you had to dial in with the thing to get the service, but this is the first time I've heard that they monitor your every move.
It will be a cold day in hell before one of those things ever enters my house.
My specialty is computer graphics. Some super bowl commercials defeine the state-of-the-art in CGI and F/X.
I don't even have to go to my Tivo to do that. You're posting like you assume I haven't done that before. Backdoors were cool when they first were found two years ago, but they pretty much bring yawns now.
So you want me to go see whats in my log files. Since I'm at work, I can't play with the silly backdoors, but since I know a pretty fair amount about how the Tivo works, I have two options available to me. One, I can log into my Tivo over the web and look at the reports there. Or I can look through the entire MFS database on the Tivo for anything I find suspect. But I've done that before and it got old too. Have you? I'm guessing not, since you seemed so excited about the backdoors.
So that aside, my other option is to just ssh into my Tivo. Easy enough, and I can go and just ftp off the syslog. But you know what? I was doing that a year and a half ago too, and it just isn't that interesting either. I know perfectly well what data gets sent up to Tivo. I know perfectly well that the serial number is used via HTTP basic authentication before data is uploaded or downloaded from Tivo. I also know perfectly well that they have said they do not correlate data with users, and I believe them because in two years I've never had a reason not to, and I've dealt pretty directly with Tivo. I also know that Tivo doesn't have the right information to really find out anything useful about me anyway, since they don't know what was on a channel at a given time anyway!. Want to know what else I know? Having worked with a number of companies in the past that write software for data mining demographic data sources, I can tell you for absolutely certain that the Tivo information isn't within two or three orders of magnitude as damaging to your privacy as the data collected when you go shopping and pay for anything with any tender other than cash. And walk there because you don't have a drivers license or car. And don't own or rent property.
Get real. I can't say you're being paranoid, but you're looking at the world with blinders... things are a whole lot worse than you think, and a whole lot more out of your ability to control than you think. Going after Tivo for what they are doing is just plain silly.
can't we have digital video recording in a stand-alone box like the analog recorders?
Because you have then destroyed most of the functionality of the TiVo. Without the program guide data the machine cannot get you season passes to you favorite shows, it can't give you an on screen display of whats playing on the other channels right now, it can't even name the stuff you've recorded automatically (so you've got to pick what show you want to watch from a list of dates and times)
Interested in buying a bridge? It's in great shape! We're moving and can't take it with us.
You clearly have a grossly exaggerated idea of your importance to the world if you think that TiVo is interested in what you, personally, watch on television. They have meds to treat conditions like yours.
Everyone who thinks that this is a bad thing had better stop using Google now.
Better yet, simply call TiVo and tell them that you wish to not be included in their aggregate data collection. TiVo has been up-front from the startabout the "scary" process you describe above, and they're also up-front about the easy process to be removed from the data collection. And if you're extremely paranoid, wipe the log files as you described, or hack a DirecTiVo so you can use it without the phoneline.
I look forward to these statistical results. It increases knowledge of ourselves.
I have two reservations:
(1) No individual data are made available.
(2) All results are made available to everyone.
I think the Brits, a couple whom authored "1984" and "Brave New World" are showing the proper direction. They put surveillence cams up everywhere. However they make much of the feed publically available. There is less opposition to more information when *everyone* has *full* access to it.
I mean, seriously, the people filling out those forms are not going to put down that they watched the Playboy Channel for 8 straight hours; they're going to put down "Friends," "ER," and "60 Minutes" because it's what's expected of them.
Tracking viewing habits with DVR/PVRs can only help push the networks out of churning out the same old garbage year after year.
Information gathering of this sort, assuming they stick to their posted privacy policy, isn't really such a bad thing. Advertisers work in odd and mysterious ways, and basing a campaign or new product on what works in "testing" seems far less correct than judging it on actual viewing habits.
Testing works by essentially shoving groups of 12 people or so in remote cities in Wisconsin (or wherever represents a demographic mix) into a room and interviewing them, very very precisely. These people get a snack lunch and some money. Advertisers feel they get an accurate view of how the public will view a spot. I've seen plenty of commercials killed in testing (after all they money has been spent to make them) and it really pisses of the company and the ad agency.
They don't get mad at themselves, the usually get mad at the public. After all, all their previous research said this new potato chip would be huge...so it can't be their fault.
Tivo's ability to gather data on a individual and group level (like the whole zip code of that town in Wisconsin) is far faster than Nielsen ratings, more specific to an individual TV event like commercials or programming, and most likely useful to advertisers and programmers in general.
-Barkeep, a draft of your most hazardous brew, for the world is slowly stepping into focus, and I don't like what I see.
If you sgtart the game with a delay, you can indeed fast-forward through commercials. You'd just start the game 10 or 20 minutes late.
Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
But what if their own company is destroyed first (due to mismanagement, burst of dot-com bubble, arabs playing around with planes, whatever). Repo man comes, and auctions off assets to the highest bidder, in order to pay off creditors. And among these assets is... you guessed it, your logfiles. And even the TOS won't protect you at that point: you had an agreement with a now-defunct company, not with its creditors.
Say no to software patents.
If you want to opt-out of TiVo's data collection, just call TiVo customer service and tell them, and they'll tell your machine to stop uploading that info. Problem solved.
Did anyone fastforward through the game to watch the commercials?
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
She's a skank, plain and simple. The worst rolemodel for a young girl, and unfortunately she's got most of them in her evil clutches.
Besides, regarding her jingle, "...for those who think young," she got practically ever guy thinking young (of her), which is just wrong.
I'm surprised how strongly some people react to others gathering statistics on what they do. Now, granted this is a private activity, watching tv in your own home. But I think that some people need to get over their self-inflated sense of "privacy" and "anonymity". Privacy is being allowed to go about your business without having your rights infringed upon by the state. Anonymity is a different matter. If you choose to use Tivo, and incredibly neat and useful gadget, you contribute to their ability to gather statistics. There's no invasion of privacy going on here, and try as you might, your "rights" are not being deprived (which I think some people forget in our individualistic society).
Eventually, every (smart) company that grows to serve more than a handful of people has to treat those customers as statistics, even though they may claim to be providing incredibly "personal" service.
Some companies are more sophisticated at using the information at their disposal, and employ teams of data miners to sift through for patterns that'll benefit their business. Others aren't so clever and lose out on those chances.
But in either case, why expect both anonymity *and* privacy? There is no constitutional right to either.
but keep in mind that Tivo doesn't know, even remotely, what commercials you may or may not be fast forwarding through, so they don't have any useful info about you at all!
From the article:
" Based on a random sampling of 10,000 of the 280,000 subscribers, they found out that Pepsi/Britney was the subject of the most replayed Ad(s)..."
If they know what ads you're *watching*, then they surely must know what ads you're fast-forwarding through..
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
God you're paranoid...
If you have a problem with advertisers getting *anonymous* aggregated viewing info which includes you, you can:
(a) Ask Tivo to take you off the list
(b) Quit using Tivo
I remember reading all about this stuff on their website before I bought the Tivo, if you didn't bother to read up on a purchase then more fool you.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
I don't see why we need TiVo. If we got standard broadcast and Internet formats for programming information, together with widespread production of these devices by electronics companies, costs would go down and privacy would end up being better.
It's a linux box that calls up tivo every night to get the program schedule, and reports some statistics as well.
Sean.
While I agree NOW they will do what they say, in the future who knows. And that is what would have me worried. The problem with data gathering is that data lives on long after the fact. And once it is data it cannot be taken back.
There is absolutely no law (in the US) that deals with how the data can be used. It is only the privacy policy of TiVO that dictates what is done.
Lets take the example of a company like Budweiser saying, "you know I want you to send out the new Budweiser commercial to all those that replayed our commercial". Budweiser then says, "hey to do that we will give you X dollars as compensation for your effort". Will TiVO say no to this? Absolutely not. TiVO is playing nice person now because they need to the data to convince the likes the Budweiser.
So sorry, I would opt out without any legally binding laws or legally binding data expiration laws.
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
keep in mind that Tivo doesn't know, even remotely, what commercials you may or may not be fast forwarding through
... "
Did you read the article? Guess not. "Based on a random sampling of 10,000 of the 280,000 subscribers, they found out that Pepsi/Britney was the subject of the most replayed Ad(s)
TiVo sure as fuck knows what commercial I'm watching.
Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
I doubt you have a TiVo.
If you did, you would have gotten the message (TiVo has an area marked with an email icon where they can send you messages about service), marked super important, ON YOUR TIVO (so you can't say you used a fake email to register), that explained the privacy policy changes.
1. They are all anonymous. They are not correlating users to data, they're just uploading raw data. TiVo has been honest in all their other areas, so I see no reason to doubt them here (they'll even still give you phone support if you admit you hacked your tivo, and try to help you get it working again, including triggering server flags to auto-re-download the original software/etc. How many companies can you say that about?)
2. You can opt out. If you call the service number, give them your account number, you can tell them to leave you out of stats. This was also explained in the message.
Finally, Phillips has NOTHING AT ALL to do with tivo service, which is where the logs are going. Contacting phillips about tivo usage stats is like contacting Dell to complain about getting porn ads over ICQ.
Do some research before you troll.
I, meanwhile, urge everyone with a TiVo to read TiVo's privacy policy and stop panicking needlessly. TiVo's information collection is anonymous. Yes, they track button clicks. No, it's not connected to you. If it really bothers you, the privacy statement clearly says the following:
Seems pretty reasonable to me. Transparent and friendly. People reverse engineering TiVos have verified that if you call them, they no longer upload the data to TiVo at all.
That's why the data shouldn't be tied to an individual user, but reported on the whole. For example, they might say that for a given timeslot, 33% of their audience watched NBC's show, 15% watched a program on HBO, etc. They might report that 0.001% watched "News The Government Doesn't Want You To Know" on a public access station, but most likely it would be grouped into a "Other" category. And there would be no way (from the press release and without a warrant) to trace the data back to the level of an individual person.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
How did you pay for your tivo box? If you paid anything but cash, then you should be more worried about what the evil salesperson at the home electronics store could do with your credit card or checking account infomration than *gasp* what tivo could do with you TV viewing habits.
Jeez. Again: NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU ARE INDIVIDUALLY DOING. NOBODY. NOT EVEN YOUR MOM. Go downstairs and ask her if you doubt it.
What do you tink is happening? "Ohhh, look, Johnny Slashdot watched The Man Show and reqound while the girls where on the trampoline. Let's go arrest him!!
Get over yourselves, people.
No, they don't. They keep their logs without identifiying information (though, I expect them to have a neilsen-like service at some point where you will be able to sign up to share personal information for other sorts of demographic research purposes).
Read the privacy policy. Now's a good time, since they just updated it.
Also, you can opt-out of communicating with TiVo at all (very limiting) or just sending them viewing data (no harm to your viewing or service). Now, the thumbs-up/down I'm not sure about. If you *can* limit this, it would restrict the usefulness of the suggestions feature, if not eliminate it. I'm not sure if you can do that, but it's worth the research if you're uncomfortable sharing your likes and dislikes.
People are right to be concerned an watchful here, but let's not go overboard until TiVo proves themselves unreliable on this point.
Tomorrow, if Bill G. announces that Micro$oft (via Windows 9X/Me/NT/2K/CE/XP/YZ) will be collecting "anonymous statistics" about which websites you visit, what you read, etc. and assures you that these statistics will be used only to "improve your online browsing experience", without identifying you personally (other than by your ZIP code), how many of you would agree to that (assuming you use Micro$oft's products) ?
I've been rather upset at all the people defending TiVo because they have an 'opt-out' policy and that their e-mails to their customers update them about changes to the privacy statement. Apparently it doesn't matter that there have been several posts indicating that they send a log of all of the IR messages the TiVo receives correlated to the zip code.
...Which has been proven to not be sent when you do opt-out. My linux box keeps a history of every single command I type in cli...You don't see me complaining about it, do you? Oh wait, Linux doesn't send anybody my history...But then again, I opted out of TiVo's Data Collecting, and ran a packet sniffer, and TiVo didn't get my history files either once I opted out, where they did before.
A. you can opt out of data collection if you want (you did read the manual right?)
B. they don't log 'mr. x has watched the slashdot show' they log 'someone in zipcode 1234 has watched the slashdot show'
Oh, and I just "discovered" the other day that some http servers actually these things called refer logs, that not only log your IP and what page you're visiting but where you came from; in some cases being able to detect search engine keywords used to get to that page. Given the fact that they could call up your ISP and request modem and customer information it's possible that they could do a heck of alot more damage than knowing you're a grown man who still watches teletubbies.
(...but since this is slashdot we'll completely ignore anything factual)
- MbM
The simple fact is, if you are that paranoid, you can opt out of it. It has been verified from various third parties that once you have expressed that you do not want your data to be collected, the TiVo does not upload it. I see no reason to get up in arms about this.
"The guide is definitive, reality is frequently inaccurate."
hey it could happen
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
I think I'll be opting out.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
The obvious fix for this problem is to buy a DirecTivo and install Extreme 2.5 with the subscription fix so your box never phones home. See the forums at DealDatabase for more info - do a search on SubTest.
-sting3r
What ad? I didn't see any ad. (Ad filtering proxies are your friends. :-) )
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
I convinced everyone to come over to my house to watch the game this year because I had the DirecTV/Tivo combo and could back up cool ads and plays with ease. At 10pm, with 5 minutes of video buffered, the god damned thing stopped recording the game and switched over to record another show. As a result, we missed the Pat's dramatic march downfield and field goal. By the time I realized the error, we switched back to live TV and the confetti was falling.
Everyone was FUCKING PISSED OFF. This sort of thing happens all the time for sporting events. Before Tivo does ANYTHING else, they need some kind of software solution to record the enitrity of sporting events and go over their scheduled time. I should NOT have to explicitly tell it to record for an extra half hour or hour for every game that comes on.
--
Yea, on sunday, when I went to the store for munchies, the checkout clerk asked me why I wasn't at home watching the SuperBowl, I responded with, "Whats the SuperBowl ? Is that Like the Special Olympics or something ?" Oddly, she wasn't amused.
Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power - Benito Mussoli
It's not like it can be tied to you or anything. Get a shell on the Tivo. Then read the scripts that send the data. Then get a clue.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
ditto and double ditto.
actually, i was a neilsen family once. it was a very strange experience. me and my brother, one in college, one just out of school, both single, living in an apartment and keeping odd hours, both with very odd viewing habits.
i'll bet i am personally responsible for "hogan's heroes" and "MASH" staying on in syndication - they were on after i got in from school really late but didn't want to go to bed yet. and then there was the 4 hours of PBS we both got absorbed in one weekend when they were showing a series about spot welding and arc welding techniques. funny shit.
anyhoo, the thing i really want to see this kind of data used for is sending me targeted advertising.
the tivo people and the cable company know i'm a single guy living alone. that i'm of a particular age, i own or rent, i have a car or not, that i have pets, etc. they can send me ads for beer and hamburgers, and stop showing me commercials about diapers for old people, viagra, feminine hygiene products and the VIEW!
erm.. sorry.
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
> If you let them show what the average person likes to watch, then more programs of what the average person likes to watch will become more common, and the programs that the average person hates will start to disappear.
:-P
Unlike now, you mean, where the majority of TV shows are aimed at the lowest common denominator?
Any improvement, no matter how small, is still *improvement*.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
And that is the bane of mankind. It's sad to see /. fall into such a mire. What TIVO is doing here is every bit as evil as anythim MS has ever done. More so. And for the majority of /.ers to toatally ignore it or even praise it becuase TIVO is their baby is completely wrong. Evil is evil is evil.
Contrary to popular belief, coding is not all free blow-jobs and beer. Those things cost MONEY!
I can sit through any sit com and tell you specific moral/ethical objectives male/female societal roles, etc. etc. they are programming people with. Or maybe, I'm really paranoid?
Or maybe you're just a self-important Freshman psychology major at the local community college.
--saint
This is basically a "me too" post, but I must agree. I'd much rather see ads for Cisco and ThinkGeek than for tampons. I don't mind anyone knowing this. Those targeted ads would certainly have a better chance of not getting fast forwarded through if it was something I was interested in. And, smaller companies like ThinkGeek could have national advertising at a tiny fraction of the cost if they were only broadcast to those in the target market.
Now we really can't do this right now because you can't tailor the commercials for each household on a standard broadcast network. However, this is all groundwork that has to be done so when we can do this we'll be ready for it.
load "linux",8,1
Yes, but I can imagine a day when a network produces 4 times the amount of programming that they do now and targets different segments of the population. If there where more shows on that I would be interested in, I'd probably watch more TV. I don't now because I'm apparently just not interested in the same things as the average American. Along with targeted advertising, they could more than afford to do this.
;)
They don't do this now because they can't. Current broadcasting doesn't allow for customized programming. If a program or commercial is scheduled to occur at a particular time, select the one I will see based on my preferences and start streaming it to me.
Watching more television wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, depending on the type of shows that you like. I've learned a lot from TV. While overdoing anything is bad, it's the quality of the shows you watch that can really turn an "idiot box" into something worthwhile. Now some will get more stupid sitcoms that have no value whatsoever, but they're already lost so it really doesn't matter.
.
load "linux",8,1
Just duck when this happens!
*BOOM*
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
> until it sends another update
In which case you turn on the backdoors, look at the System Information screen, check the "Opt Status:" line to see either OptedOut, OptedNeutral, or OptedIn.
In the end, it always comes down to trust. Either you trust them, or you don't. They've gone a hell of a long way to gain my trust, with the most comprehesive privacy policy I've ever seen, the underlying code actually sticking to that policy (and taking it to extremes in some bits to do so), and by notifying their users of changes to that policy via Tivo messages, emails, and even snail mail.
More to the point, they have posted specifically WHY they've had to make changes to their policy. The first time, it was so they could share certain types of data with DirecTV in order to make the DirecTivo. That sort of thing. They're very open about it, and frankly, I trust 'em. But you have to make that call on your own.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
until my meds kick in (bubble bubble) -- just a quick question. If i had a way for Tivo to make cash by being interested in your personal viewing habits, would they take me up on the offer?
Probably not. The FTC would be all over their asses so quick that they'd be hosed. Plus, the risk of losing consumer confidence if they were caught would be too great.
I just can't imagine why any corporation would be interested in what I (or you) watch on public TV channels.
Oh, and I just "discovered" the other day that some http servers actually these things called refer logs, that not only log your IP and what page you're visiting but where you came from; in some cases being able to detect search engine keywords used to get to that page.
Yes, this is true. I find it fascinating to look through the logs on my home page and see what people were searching for that led them to me. If you're not happy about it, there are proxy servers to strip the HTTP_REFERER string, but it's part of the HTTP protocol.
Given the fact that they could call up your ISP and request modem and customer information it's possible that they could do a heck of alot more damage than knowing you're a grown man who still watches teletubbies.
I've worked at four ISPs in the last five years. In general I've found my coworkers to be very aware of customer privacy issues. Less experienced employees are susceptible to basic social engineering, of course, but to suggest that ISPs will give out your personal information to any individual or corporation who calls and asks for it is insulting to those of us who work in that industry.
If you find out that your ISP has disclosed personal information about you to a third party without your consent, check their service agreement to see if it permits them to do so. If not, you should consult an attorney. If so, you should find another ISP - and read their service agreement before signing up.
I'm not trying to say it doesn't happen. Even the best of us make mistakes, and the worst of us just don't care that much. But please, don't generalize like that.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
it may not exist in the database, but it is in their log files.