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Palm OS 5.0 Preview
Propane sent in an
excerpt from Palm's Palm OS 5.0 Preview
"Palm OS 5, the latest version of the world's leading mobile platform, redefines market expectations and creates new opportunities for licensees, for developers, and for end users. In addition to supporting ARM®-compliant processors from industry leaders Intel, Motorola, and Texas Instruments, Palm OS 5 also enhances multimedia capabilities, incorporates a suite of robust security options, and expands support for wireless connections. In providing these new capabilities, Palm OS 5 builds a foundation for the future of mobile computing while also maintaining compatibility with existing software. "
The article's fairly thin on detail. Other than the obvious and much-anticipated port to ARM, does anyone have any details on other new features? What are the new 'multimedia' features? How have they implemented this 'robust security'?
Most importantly, will Palm still be freely allowing development by releasing the SDK for free? (the move to ARM might have given them an opportunity to switch from gcc, thereby making this a question)
PenguiNet: the (shareware) Windows SSH client
I am not a patent lawyer, but what about Xerox's patent on the Graffiti technology? With all due respect to Palm for making a popular product, Xerox patented the technology that makes them the most popular. Plus, Palm sales are down 44%, and people are wanting to get the flashier HP PDA's these days. I remain skeptical over how much this can improve. Palms are pretty good for the amount of money they are (although Visors are better), but they really cannot compare to the HP-Jordana series and the Compaq iPaq, not to mention all these Linux PDAs that are coming out.
If only they had included some B&W screenshots of this beauty...
I would have expected to see some of the new glitz... perhaps this isn't as baked as Palm would like us to believe.
Seems that if DOS can move to a second generation, even having a superior desktop/hardware alternative (Macintosh) , why couldn't Palm do the same thing , keeping the upper hand against PocketPC?
Their seems to be much more software and legacy on the PalmOS.
Well, it looks like they finally have the basics right and the OS is moving in the right direction. I used OS 3.5 on the Visor and it was well integrated and easy to use. If the Palm OS is truly going to to compete with WinCE, they have to innovate yet maintain the Palm OS look and feel. True wireless support is the next step and it looks like they are planning to execute it well.
I wonder if Handspring will continue software development/upgrades for their rumored end of life for the Visor Handheld. I'd like to see OS 5 on my Visor.
~.Evanrude
It's not a big surprise that Palm's products are losing market share, and quickly. Where they were once popular and led the market, that market share has eroded to competitors running Windows CE, which, though higher priced, has had more attractive features (like interoperability with most Microsoft products).
I have three Palms, including a VIIx (for which they're charging too much, thus killing it, but that's another story), but I think my next PDA won't be a Palm. I haven't seen much from them that would entice me to buy a new model. The i405 was a disappointment--using memory sticks instead of CF cards was a major factor in me rejecting it for a purchase.
Anyway, I digress. I like Palms, don't get me wrong. But I'm not sure if the combination of Palm OS 5 arriving late to the game as well as the high cost and relatively small feature set of the Palm line will allow it to survive.
Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
As someone who *used* to own a Palm but now has an iPaq, I would have to agree. Palms are like those old computers running DOS (I admit it, I used DOS), but the iPaq is all flashy and is really hi-tech, plus is a lot faster and looks great! These days I use an iPaq and couldn't be happier with my choice of PDA, things have come a long way since the day of the Palm. Sorry Palm, you used to be great, but your time has passed.
No screenshots, no specifics, just a lot of buzzwords arranged in Mad Libs style order.
Looks like there will be many new places for PalmOS with this new platform. A loot more hardware is using ARM today than old 68k so support for PalmOS may be to use on this devices. The only question is if there will be both 68k and ARM applications for download, or if one version will work on both processors.
A downside of the Handspring visor is that it is not flash-upgrade compatible. (At least, the Visor Deluxe that I won, all models down, and presumably a few more)
So, most of the current visor users are stuck with Palm OS version 4.2 or something. Unfortunately, there are a few downsides to that particular version and bugs. And... we can't upgrade!
Now, if this upgrade is really to die for, we can be seeing Palm's sales go up and Handspring's go down. Or no?
Just an issue I thought I'd raise.
PayPal $$ if you sign up for free offers (eBay, cred cards, e
I'll bet it's only half as good as OS X.
too lazy to RTFA, but will this run on my prism?
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
Quote:
increased horsepower of the broad range of ARM-compliant processors
Wow, no one saw THAT coming!
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
It is amazing what prose the academically challenged can accomplish.
There's a long rant on their website which compares Palm devices/OS to PocketPC devices/OS (basically the Ipaq) and "show" clear advantages for the former. They just forgot one thing: my Ipaq runs Linux, X and GTK+ ! That has an *enormous* geek factor. Even if the PIM apps are still less usable than pocketOutlook (which is itself less usable than Palm's equivalent), it doesn't crash and is _hackable_. Good.
Okay, this is a little offtopic, but which dolt came up with the brilliant idea that in IE, the web site should use tiny grey characters on a pure white background? Two paragraphs into this article and my eyes are about to bulge clean out of my skull...
I'm sorry, but I had to get that off my chest, Webmasters... LOOK AT YOUR SITE BEFORE RELEASING IT!
I'll thank you to leave my expectations alone, sir, for they are quite reasonable: Ease of use, quality, and features.
mje0w!!!1!
I've been waiting for this OS release, because I expected the JVM to come along with it. I see no mention of java on the site.
From the press releases, it's not clear that Palm is addressing any of these issues. OS5 claims no more functionality than you can get on a Sony right now. What about a real window system? What about a real file system? What about a real database? What about 32bit addressing and memory protection? Support for 320x320 screens and some audio and bluetooth APIs isn't going to hack it.
Altogether, OS5 may be more of an incremental improvement over previous versions, offering mostly features that companies like Handera and Sony have already offered on their Palm devices. That may simply not be enough to succeed in the market, given that it's competing against both WinCE and Linux on some nifty hardware.
Well, at least, ARM-based Palms may end up being a nice platform to port Linux to, and it may become available at fire-sale prices if things keep on going this way.
Is Palm now joining the list of IT vendors that created innovative, best-selling products, then sat back and shot themselves repeatedly in the foot with poor marketing, poor execution, and greed? And all the while Bill Gates stood (stands) in the background laughing his head off, knowing that Microsoft's slow, steady effort would eventually pass and crush the innovator?
sPh
will be a NEC MobilePro 880
668: Neighbour of the Beast
read this:
"Palm OS 5 incorporates support for the APIs in Palm OS 4.0, thereby enabling existing software applications that comply with these APIs to run on Palm OS 5. This compatibility support ensures that an investment in 68000-based software is protected into the future. "
if I'm right this means a m68k-to-PowerPC style move where the new OS running in a new hardware will provide the software compatibility AND emulation of the older CPU machine language.
Now, will it keep the small size and memory footprint of older versions ?
My old Palm IIIC had 2 Mb of flash memory and only 1.4 Mb were actually used by the OS and PIM apps. compare this with the 14 Mb+ that WinCE or QTopia takes in my current iPaq and you'll see how eficiently and fast a 2-4 Mb PalmOS would run in ARM hardware.
now a question ? will Palm sell this new version to iPaq owners ? I'll certainly give it a try.
What ? Me, worry ?
I've been using Palm devices since 2/16/99, when I finagled a 50% discount on a Palm III at Staples (and subsequently helped others do the same). Since then I've owned a IIIxe, a Vx, an m500 and an m505, and have been pleased with all of them except the m505. Poor illumination killed it for me, though spending so many years at the same resolution should have done it.
I went out this weekend and upgraded to the Sony Clié 615, and I've never been happier. 16MB RAM, 320x320x16 resolution, continuously variable brightness control, Memory Stick slot (with a flickering drive light beside it!), polyphonic sound, and one absolutely thrilled user.
The OS is flashable, so I expect I'll upgrade to 5.0 when the time comes, but I've seen the future of Palm hardware, and it ain't at Palm Computing.
Discussion Topic 1: Palm OS 5.0 supports display resolutions "from 160x160 pixels to multiples of 160x160 pixels." That takes in my 320x320 display, but it raises an interesting point: What is the ideal aspect ratio of a handheld device? Pocket PC and others use quarter-VGA, while Palm devices use this square format (which on a Clié provides 33% more pixels than QVGA). Any opinions on which display format is more ergonomic for a handheld, or for a desktop for that matter?
Discussion Topic 1½: I have nearly three hundred ebooks sitting on my 128MB Memory Stick right now, with room for another couple hundred, and I love reading from my Clié. My question is this: why would anyone buy a dedicated ebook reader, unless it were simply too cheap to turn down?
Palm programming is sweet, simple, reminiscent of early MacOS programming.
a ne problem with the Treo, but it still won't solve the let-me-catalog-my-128meg-CF-card-in-the-background problem...
But... only the foreground application can do anything. Like a mac pre-OS 7.0 sans-Switcher. Makes it very hard to build apps that listen patiently in the background for something to do something else...
I wish this weren't a limitation--i'd be able to tell clients to steer clear from WinCE and go with a solid platform. But, despite that platform being horrible to program, flaky even after 4 major rewrites, and unwilling to play well with others, it still has that thing that PalmOS doesn't--background processes that listen to transmitters, network interfaces, and all that good stuff. So, those looking to build something that's more businessy than Vexed© have to go with shiny m$ approved devices that have a battery life of roughly 8 minutes.
Perhaps the Handspring folks resolved the can't-listen-on-transmitter-while-playing-DragonB
***Foucault is watching you..***
I gotta agree with this -- as much as I adored my Palm III, i'm saving my pennies for the new Sharp Zaurus ;)
Java on the palmtop is a very happy thing
Old age and treachery almost always overcome youth and skill.
I emailed Palm user support and they sent me some back! They have preview software with demo emulation of them available if you email user support and you are a developer (they just didn't say so on that url)! They are trying hard to keep all their developers on base. It isn't the PalmOS great, it is the amazing developer community that surrounds them, and they are trying to keep them happy! For, without third party developers, all you have is extra space but nothing to do with it, and it is just a fancy organizer.
I'm sorry, but your post just isn't right. You can see NPD Techworld's numbers here (news.com.com/2100-1040-827272.html), which show that U.S. handheld sales reached 4.9 million units in 2001, which amounts to a growth of 36% over the previous year. That kind of growth isn't indicative of the market having been oversaturated.
I'm sure there may be a few embedded appliances using the M68K, but are there any major, somewhat everyday devices that still use it?
Speaking of which, what CPUs do they put in cars?
None, if you ask me.
Palm's CEO has been on record saying that his company has no interest in making "handheld computers", preferring to stick with the original plan of making better and better Palm organizers. Its like this guy's first reaction to finding a pot of gold would be to get rid of all the shiny yellow stuff inside it and use the pot to grow a house plant.
IMHO, Palm just doesn't get it. They're missing out on a market worth billions, potentially, all because they cant see past the idea of using their hardware for anything more than a $200 equivalent of a 39 cent paper note pad.
Palm just doesn't seem capable of looking down the road technologically speaking. I don't really think they understand the potential of their own niche. I mean, think about what people carry around on them today. A pager, a cellphone, a PDA. Nothing really stops Palm from designing and delivering a device that does all three of these things in one package. Fortunately, there WILL be a company that realizes where the handheld market is going. Unfortunately, I seriously doubt it will be Palm Inc, a company content on reinventing the Rolodex.
Bowie J. Poag
The Jornada 720 is NOT a Pocket PC device. It's a Handheld PC, running Windows CE 3.0 and the Handheld PC 2000 GUI/app suite. Of course it's huge - it's a clamshell device with built in keyboard, PCMCIA slot, and half-VGA screen. Entirely different class of machine than Pocket PC, and some might argue that the Handheld PC isn't even a PDA.
I have a Palm V, an iPaq 3650, and a Jornada 568. Yes, the svelte little Palm V is smaller than either, but the Jornada and the iPaq are not any bigger than the Palm III series, or the Handspring Visors. Besides, the Palm can't do a fraction of what the Pocket PCs can, and it's painful to look at that lo-res little monochrome screen. It's like going back to 640x480x256 colors on a 14" monitor, after getting used to 1600x1200x32-bit color on a nice big 21" monitor.
I guess it's to be expected, though. The anti-Pocket PC FUD is all over Slashdot, just because it's an MS product...
Jenova_Six
I'm still using a Palm II, or Personal, or whatever they called it. I think it's still running OS 1. It's Good Enough, so why upgrade?
Best Slashdot Co
Why not,
they probably use it in-house for testing right how.
Perhaps they prefer being a big fish in a small pond? Let others sell handheld computers that do everything, none of it well, while Palm sticks with doing PDA's that do a few things very well.
Best Slashdot Co
Don't you think so?
Every iteration of Palm OS is headed more and more towards the PocketPC bloated metaphor of a small PC, instead of the traditional 'glorified organizer' that our Palms are.
When Stinger mobile phones arrive with PocketPC 2002 allowing you to edit OfficeXP documents, I wonder what Palm would (could) do to beat that, if the keep on selling the OS as little more than an organizer?
Txurlo
Article was pretty light on tech details. I'd like to know if any of the Be IP was brought into this update.
Wow, no one saw THAT coming!
Are you trying to be sarcastic, or are you just hopelessly out of touch :-) ? Motorola announced that they would make ARM-based
DragonBalls more than 6 moths ago, and the final product has been out
for a few months. Probably the reason for this is that Palm forced
them to ;-)
Take a look a Motorolas web pages for the DragonBall MC9328MX1 processor.I choose to remain celibate, like my father and his father before him.
I know there will eventually be some more releases but if your going to give me a full technical run down of your new OS, at least throw me a bone and give me one screen shot. Also it sounds like no matter how much more I overclock my palm Vx there will be no more OS upgrades for me. So sad, afterburner has been a good friend but I guess I'll finally have to upgrade.
If your not cheating your not trying. If your not trying your not winning and if your not winning why play?
Unless I'm mistaken, all of Handspring's products use PalmOS 3.5 with some proprietary tweaks that handle the Springboard interface.
A number of the new features in PalmOS4, like support for 16-bit color, were already present in Handspring's version(s) of OS 3.5; that's how they got the Prism to display 16-bit color back when the Palm IIIc was still top of the line with its 8-bit color.
The original Visor Deluxe were stuck at 3.1, which meant that even though the DragonBall EZ processors it had was capable of displaying 16 shades of gray, the OS could only display 4... it got to be kind of a drag.
Since Handspring is in all likelihood killing off the Visor within the next year or two, it seems doubtful that there will ever be a Visor that runs OS 4, much less OS 5.
It's going to be a few generations of Portable OS's and Pocket PC's etc, before this is something that's really going to make a difference in the handheld arena. Palm OS 5.0? enhanced multimedia.. with 320x320 on the highest rez handhelds? bah.
/.'ers is a long way off.
Yes, I know people who have hacked Linux with AA fonts onto their PDA, and people who like watching clips they took with their digital camera. And those who feel they must have 64K colors to be able to read their calendar.
But what it comes down to for me is simple usability. I'm still using my Palm III with 2MB, no frills, no addons... the only "new" thing I got recently was another stylus to replace my broken one. All I need is the PIM and notepad features.. which Palm does well. For *everything* else, I use my laptop.
Until a handheld can replace the functionality of my laptop, I won't buy a new one. And that my fellow
I don't get why Palm has to try and one-up PocketPC so much, yet fail to fill the space that PocketPC devices fill.
Just take a look at their product comparison page. For example, they rail the iPaq on battery usage.
I totally agree with them; the iPaq doesn't have a long battery life. But that's not why I bought it... I bought it to have a true HANDHELD PC, and that's what the iPaq is.
Palm's market is for PDA-type devices. Palms are great for storing a few SMALL notes (who can really go quickly using Graffiti?), contact list, and other small things. But you certainly aren't going to get far trying to play Quake on it, terminal service into the domain controller, or pull down highly-compressed DVDs across your 802.11b link to watch them.
I liken Palm right now to a bicycle maker trying out-advertise a car maker; it is totally silly. They are two different markets altogether.
If Palm wanted to start making cars (aka enter the HANDHELD PC market), then they are free to do so. Many will still buy their bicycles (PDAs), but some might choose them for their cars (handheld pcs) as well. In that way, everyone would win. Palm would have a greater range of products and thus more possible sales, and Microsoft would have some real competition in the handheld PC market.
But as things are going, Palm can only pretend to compete with the cars for so long before they get burned. They need to decide very quickly which one (or both) they wanna make and go after the proper market.
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
I'd almost consider getting an iPaq if I could run PalmOS on it....well except for the appalling battery life. What I'm waiting to see is what Handera are going to do. Now that will be interesting
-- Entropy isn't what it used to be.
That out of the way it was a sweet bit o technology, if big and bulky and with handwriting recognition that took a few revs to get worked out.
However it also had NewtonScript which appears to have been a fab development environment and incorperated some really useful ideas about a common OS-service database; something which Palm & MS-Palm folks are now really hurting for.
So, and regardless of the move to ARM processors, I'm wondering if anyone is considering doing a gnuwtonscript and releasing that? I'm well aware that Apple holds that code tightly to it's breast, has no intentions of making it's own palm-device (and so averred in an SEC-regulated announcement last year) and that the Newton folks were soon scattered to the winds after their unit was shut down...
But a decade later it seems to be a thing that would be wildly popular and fit right into the emerging needs of the little beasts.
-- Michael
ps Please feel free to correct me on the details, like I said I was never a Newton-person other then admiring them from afar.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
The worst part is that the palm kernel from Kadak, is multi-tasking and realtime, but Palm's kernel liscense prevents them from making those APIs available to developers. To do multi-tasking on the Palm pre- os 5 one has to pay Kadak money for access to the kernel APIs.
--
blinko - "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down"
Palm's market share has dropped from ~71% last year to 58% this year. Handspring's share grew from 14% to 15%, and Sony's share grew from 1% to 6%. Note that this we are talking about the entire handheld market in unit sales, not just PalmOS handhelds. By my figuring, the 3 major PalmOS vendors have about 80% of the market.
Let's put this in perspective, shall we? All PocketPC manufacturers together sell fewer handhelds than Handspring and Sony together. Palm's own handhelds outsell all PocketPC devices combined by almost a factor of 3.
I do think that Palm needs to split off the OS unit into an entirely separate company, to avoid the problem of competing with one's licensees, and I do think Sony (much as I hate their DMCA-loving guts) makes much slicker PalmOS handhelds these days than Palm or Handspring (though my m505 meets my needs).
That said, I don't think Palm is doomed, and I do think there's a real astroturf campaign being waged by Microsoft across the net. Here's a clue - wherever you see "Palm's unit share down 44%! PocketPC revenue share increases by 73%!" someone has an agenda to make Palm look bad - if they weren't trying deliberately to do so, they wouldn't compare apples (unit share of a single PalmOS manufacturer) to oranges (revenue share, i.e. share of total dollars spent, of all PocketPC licensees).
Yes, the number of dollars being spent on PocketPC devices is increasing (still only 26% of total dollars spent on PDAs). This statistic itself is misleading given the much higher prices (and manufacturing costs) of PocketPC devices. Those PocketPC 2002 devices cost a bundle to make; wake me up when a PocketPC manufacturer claims margins close to those of any PalmOS manufacturer.
I'm not saying Palm couldn't lose their lead in market share to PocketPC handhelds. I'm just saying they haven't lost it yet, nor are they doomed to lose it barring some extraordinarily shady tactic from Microsoft (e.g. deliberately breaking all PalmOS hotsync capabilities in their next OS - something that won't happen unless MS greases enough palms to repeal all the antitrust legislation we've got).
Others have made the adequately made the points that PocketPC devices are still usability nightmares compared to Palms, and so are really only selling to extreme gearheads who "need" that colorful battery-sucking brick to impress the neighbors/vendors/clients/ladies. "But look! You can watch the Matrix on it! All I had to do was hook my VCR to my computer, encode the video into a 15fps MPEG file, which I stored on my $300 microdrive, which fits into the CompactFlash expansion sleeve, which fits on my iPaq like so! Of course, I can't watch the whole movie on a single battery charge unless I use the PCMCIA sleeve which has an extra battery and more than doubles the thickness, but look!! Keanu!!"
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
"Sorry but a pda doesn't need to play mpeg video, display in 32 bit color, and have 3d accelerated OpenGl support."
The company I work for wants these features. They're using PocketPC's as an interface for a bigger device, and to be able to send down MPEG data to play back would be incredibly useful.
So yes, for us a PDA does need to have all the features you just described. It also needs to have wireless connectivity and long battery life. Our application is unusual and wouldn't be applied to consumers. (Today) But the point i'm making is that it is useful if you have the application for it.
The reason that it's all just 'a gimmick' is because for the consumer, the need isn't there, YET. I'm looking forward to the day where my PocketPC can wirelessly connect to the internet and watch Video on Demand. The foundation blocks are already starting! Recently there was an article talking about 802.11 at airports. When that happens, I'll be able to use my PDA to get CNN video updates while I'm waiting for my plane.
That's just one idea. Down the road as more components go into place, I can see the PDA becoming an awesome entertainment device.
The good news for you, though, is that the competition in the market is providing you the alternative you want. The cheap, does what ya need it to PDA. I don't think those will ever disappear. There's nothing wrong, though, with releasing a product with a lot of features. It's not Microsoft's fault that there isn't a lot of content being taken advantage of on the PocketPC yet.
"Derp de derp."
Great! You rooned it for everybody else! j/k
Staples 110% Price Protection
I'm a 2000 man.
Why doesn't Palm support a move to a qvga 240x320 aspect ratio screen in its new OS? I might consider moving to a palm device if I didn't have to stare at that ridiculous waste of space graffiti area. Monochrome screens don't bother me; in fact I like them better than the dim power sucking color screens on Pocket PC's. Just give me a Sony Peg-T415 or Visor Edge like device that doesn't have one third of the screen painted green and I will buy.
Actually, Palm is going towards TI, with its OMAP chip - integrated ARM and TI 55x DSP on one chip. While it's not an exclusive deal with TI, I'd expect to see at least the first few iterations use OMAP exclusively.
http://www.handera.com/products/330feat.asp
not as thin as a Visor Edge but it has both Compact Flash and SD, takes 4AAA or a single Li-Ion rechargable battery pack.
Go forth and purchase
NB: not an employee, just a TRGPro owner who can't afford to upgrade
-- Entropy isn't what it used to be.
Um, that means everything will have to be recompiled, right? So you'll have to download new versions of everything you use? And hope that the developers are still around to recompile them?
I merely mention this because on their PocketPC vs. PalmOS page, they make a big deal about the compatibility stuff. Since all the PocketPC stuff just needs to be recompiled to work on new platforms, it seems to be the same thing...
In biometric identification, I believe that retinal scanning is the only true way. You can chop of a finger, keep it artificially warm and pump fake blood through it.
If someone pokes out your eye, the retina will change.
If someone kills you, the retina will change.
If someone drugs you, the retina may change. Does anybody know anything about drugging the victim?
Anyhow, retinal scanning appears to be the most promising, possibly aside from / in conjuction with voice analysis.
Fingerprint technology should have been DOA for interactive, non-supervised terminals.
Stop the brainwash
on the lower right there is a link that compares Pocket PC to palm,t ml
http://www.palmos.com/platform/os5/palmvspocket.h
it really makes me sad that it has come down to this, PALM makes a gret product, but as far as the hardwar goes, they (at the moment) are far behind Pocket PC, the entire argument is that there is more software for palm.
moving over towrds ARM, is a smart move, and it should bring new life into palm... but the best thing would be to incorporate into the OS the good features of BeOS
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
It is thinner than the rest of the palm organizers. It is light, and it fits quite well in your inner pocket in your jacket. Not quite yet in your pants, though. Honestly, the m500 is a wonderful piece of pda. Relatively good battery life, IR connection to my cell phone so that I can email and surf the web if i really need it, and a great selection of useful and useless (read fun) software.
Stop the brainwash
I have nearly three hundred ebooks sitting on my 128MB Memory Stick right now, with room for another couple hundred, and I love reading from my Clié. My question is this: why would anyone buy a dedicated ebook reader, unless it were simply too cheap to turn down?
Simply because the screen is too friggin' small. Even a pocket-paperback has 4 or 6 times the "screen area" of a Palm handheld, making it easier to read at a distance and reducing the number of times you need to "scroll" to a new page. I like the convenience of reading books on my Palm, yes, but not the way I can only get two sentences on screen at a time using a comfortable font.
I need an SSH client please
-- Would you buy a biometric ID system that cost an arm and a leg?
Coding Blog
No, I want Native support in the OS. I commend Hand-era for making the 330, but Hand-era is just one small vender. I just don't understand why Palm this hasn't done this yet. Why would they just support higher resolution square screens when pda's are naturally rectangular? This is one aspect that Palm shouldn't try to differentiate themselves from Pocket-PC. It only makes sense.
So, I didn't see the most obvious question answered (or even asked for that matter): Will Palm OS 5 run on, say, an iPAQ? I bought one a while back to replace a stolen Visor, and have been regretting it ever since. Palm OS 5 could be the best solution for me, since I don't want to buy another $400 palmtop...
This is obviously mostly marketing hype (their PalmOS vs PPC list is as bad as M$'s PPC vs PalmOS list). Give us some real information... What kind of memory protection will the new OS have? (currently PalmOS has none!). How's the file system going to work? Multitasking wasn't menioned, but has been brought up in the past; how is it being implemented? (PPC's multitasking sucks)
The only thing that really stands out to me is "supports up to 320x320 resolution". Big deal... Sony has that now. Why the Hell don't they support up to 480x320? You'd get the high resolution that the Sony units along with the virtual graffiti area that PPCs and Handeras have. Some people prefer one over the other, but pretty much *everyone* would appreciate having both.
As far as all the "PalmOS is dead, PPC rules" posts, you're either uninformed, stupid, or running a FUD campaign. PalmOS *still* controls 80% of the market, despite M$ pouring huge amounts of money into PPC. If PPC was its own company, they would've gone under a long time ago. Palm doesn't have a sugar daddy, and they're not in great shape financially, but they're certainly alive and kicking. It's possible that they'll go under in a few years (they are buring through their cash pretty quick) but who knows?
As far as comments about Palm being nothing more than an organizer and PPC being a computer, (1) that's been discussed to death and (2) who the crap modded them up? A quick refresher... having a taskswitching vs multitasking OS does not differentiate between a PDA and a computer. Multimedia isn't required either. All PalmOS devices can run spreadsheets, databases, programming languages, word processors, games, email, web browsing, etc... They are real computers.
Some people want better audio and video playback, so Palm is adding it. Does this go against the Zen of Palm? Perhaps... depends on how it's done. We'll know soon.
I'm not sure what aspect ratio is "ideal" (it's certainly handy to have a square screen if you want to support 90 rotation of your UI without breaking a sweat), but in my mind the big win with high-res devices isn't multimedia; it's text readability.
At 72 ppi, anti-aliasing (and subpixel LCD tricks like ClearType) will only get you so far, especially with users looking so closely at the screens on these devices (they're handhelds, after all -- you're likely to hold them closer to your face than, say, your 30-pound CRT). Reading long passages of text at 72dpi, even on a good LCD, is still miserable.
However, with 320x320 packed into a couple of inches, we're talking about a dot pitch of 150ppi or higher, which approaches the pixel density (read: sharpness!) of a low-end inkjet printer. Assuming Palm (er, "PalmSource") can come up with some high-quality screen fonts (to replace the now-quaint bitmap fonts that once contributed strongly to the visual identity of the platform), future PalmOS devices could finally offer a pleasant e-book experience to end users.
Palm did well - so well that the majority of their customers don't want or need to upgrade. They made a PDA John Doe could use (John doe could barely send email when he got his palm). So what have they had to do? They've had to expand their market to include other groups to keep their sales up, now they've got the wireless PDAs, and they've got the cheap PDAs, and now they've saturated that market with satisfied, non-returning customers. The only market they don't have a PDA for is the power-user market, and they really haven't made much headway into the enterprise market (not nearly as much as they were expecting).
So they've painted themselves into a corner. Handspring at least did a little better - by making their PDAs cheaper and non-upgradeable they have customers that are starting to wonder if they should get the new model - but not many, because they have the same market Palm has, and these people don't care to fix what's not broken.
So they see their sales dropping, and they are going to be cutting jobs and weathering the storm (by seperating their businesses, etc), and at the same time try and find a way to 1) get people to upgrade 2) break into other markets.
They've chosen primarily 1. They indicate that palm 5 will have backward compatability, but don't indicate any sort of forward compatability - soon you'll see apps that only run on >= P5 OS. They are hoping that this will happen quickly enough to save them before they run out of money. The only 'new' market they are trying to get into is the enterprise market again They've been trying to get into if for years, and haven't made any headway because their devices are not seen as necessary. Of the highly touted new features, the only one the palm doesn't have in its earlier versions in one form or another is the encryption - which John Doe doesn't need, care for, or want to deal with. This is a feature that the 'enterprise' customers have always wanted - on paper. They won't likely use it to its fullest, but it's a comfort buzzword they think they need.
Prognosis: Not good. Palm won't die out, but they won't have the time or resources to make any significant change to its OS and retarget it for larger, untapped markets. Its current offering is slightly less dazzling when seen side by side at the shopping mall, and not nearly as well marketted as the PocketPC.
-Adam
You know, if it wasn't for high-end databases, I could probably get away with still using GEOS 2.0 on my Commodore 128. Of course, then I wouldn't get to brag about my uber-Athlon, but maybe I could brag about being ultra-retro.
-sk
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Palm OS currently allow any app accesss to all of memory? SSL is well and good, but if the OS doesn't prevent the apps from accessing each other's memory space then the device is wide open to viral/trojan attack.
is anyone else seeing the text for this article displayed incorrectly on the front page of slashdot? For me, the text of this article (and only this article) is running into and under the "Yesterday's Article" box.
This is on Mozilla 2002020103 . . .
Just curious.
ARM has the option of JVM accelleration, partial execution direct by the CPU, called jazelle
The real test of a PDA is can you accomplish primary tasks whle commuting in heavy traffic. Yes, I know doing so is likely to kill people, but the real success of the PalmOS is that you just might be able to check an appointment in heavy traffic without killing yourself. Try that with a laptop or PPC.
Well written PalmOS apps are usefull while standing. Ever try to look-up a phone number in your laptop while standing at a pay phone at the airport? It's not a plesant sight.
The PalmOS os for people on the go. If all you do is drive a desk don't bother with any PDA.
-s
Usually bicycles don't cost as much as cars.
http://dtum.livejournal.com
Has anyone heard if this is going to be release for the m500 series, or just on new hardware?
Battery life is definitely one of the hurdles, but if there's a need for it, someone will likely try to overcome this. For instance:this guy has made a good first attempt.
Amen....If only it could fit into something the size of a Vx (well, who knows, it might be possable now).
"Newton's greatness was more than just NewtonScript, it was the design of the entire Newton OS. I've owned Palms and Windows CE devices and (in a desperate attempt to find a usable pen-based system) a Fujitsu Stylistic running Linux+KDE. I just couldn't satisfy my needs for an "information everything device"
I've only seen 3 small quicktime movies of a Newton. But just from that. I could tell that the Newton is by far.. better than PalmOS or PPC. It looked as if it has combines powerfull feature with the 'simplicty' concept of Palm.
The problem with Palm. Is that they have confused 'simplicity' of the OS, with the simplicity of the GUI.
A good example: When I had my Jornada 680 (WinCE). There was an option in the main apps. If you had an note, you could send it to e-mail, or make an appointment. You could turn a task into an apointment etc. Similar to what aussersterne talked about. But you can't do that on a Palm. You have to muck around cuting and pasting things. The WinCE way was simpler.
As for the problem of a cluttered GUI, that's a seperate issuse to be worked on.
I've mentioned the following many times before, simply 'cause I think it sums up what's wrong with Palm:
You still can't sort you contacts by their first name. (maybe this will be fixed in OS 5)
How is this simplicity in action? It isn't. The only thing remotly simple about this it the preferances panel where you choose what to sort by. But even then, it's possablt to create an easier to use interface, that's more powerfull that the preferaces panel that's there now.
It also shows Palm's lack of innovation. You can hardly call a company innovative when they still haven't changed a little thing like that since the OS was released a few years ago.
No one in their right mind would watch a DVD on a palmtop unless they were trapped in an airport waiting for a flight to come. Even then, what palmtop has the gigs of storage needed?
Similarly, why play Quake on a handheld? You are limited by input and output again -- small screen, no keyboard, no analog joystick or mouse. Desktop computers fill a very important role. Laptops can fulfill it to an extent (it's easier to fullfil it when the laptop is not crippled by low-quality components), and do so for only a bit more than a "good" Palmtop PC. For only a little more money, and a little less battery life, you get a gargantuan screen, much more effecicient data entry input devices, and bulk storeage devices.
"Palms are great for storing a few SMALL notes (who can really go quickly using Graffiti?), " -- actually, I can grafitti faster than I can print. For taking notes when I'm going to be away from any kind of computer for a while, the Palm and PPK make a great team. It's like having a portable (albeit limited) word processer with amazing battery life.
Palms are handy little devices. They are (like Palmtop PCs) limited by their resolution, input, and storage. However, they are tailored more towards constant usage on the go and still allow a great deal of versatility: my old Gameboy and Palm both can play the same kind of RPGs as found in Final Fanstasy for the GB, but my Palm can also replace my binders, wrist watch, calendar, todolist, black book, Ti85, and much more.
Try looking at the strengths of a product before going on to rationalize buying a PalmPC when we know you won't ever use you PalmPC for the mentioned purposes daily (only when you are trying to prove it can be done).
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I know it's not the only thing that PPCs do. But anytime a Palm vs PPC discussion starts, PPC advocates tout that their device is superior because it can play MP3's, Mpegs, and Quake. And my response is typically "So? None of those things are usefull in a PDA, and you can do it better on other devices already out there". People argue that the PPC is a superior Palm because it does non PDA stuff. Whoopie do.
Yes. I know what you meant. I have a Vx myself. And use it all the time. But different applications call for different solutions. A Palm in not the answer I'm looking for for this particular project, but neither is laptop.
Which is great. What you're asking for is the video/image editing functionality found in a laptop, except smaller.
You seem to be saying than apples are useless, and that I should get a watermelon.
No, I'm saying that you really want a fruit coctail, but keep asking for the apple, and when you get the apple you insist that it's an orange too. :)
My argument was never that Palm should follow PPC (I don't think they should either). But that you can't say that a laptop is a better alternative to PPC type PDAs. They all have their places.
I think for the capabilities people often use to say that PPC devices are superior to Palm devices, laptops are much better suited. I've never used a PPC myself; they look too computery for my tastes (if that makes any sense), but I don't mean to imply that they are useless for PDA tasks.
Yes. And I was never saying that a PPC is better than a Palm. I was saying that PPC has capabilities in a PDA that Palm doesn't. It shouldn't be assumed that I think PPC are better than Palm because I can play videos, just because a lot of others think so.
Which is great. What you're asking for is the video/image editing functionality found in a laptop, except smaller.
No. I'm asking for a PDA with image editing functionality. You need to stop assuming you know what I want, or what's best for me.
No, I'm saying that you really want a fruit coctail, but keep asking for the apple, and when you get the apple you insist that it's an orange too. :)
I really don't think that the fruit analogy really works. Especially when you consider that image editing SW is available for Palm anyway. Doesn't that make Palm just as bad as PPC?
It's perfectly possible to have a PDA that has some capabilities of a laptop, without compromising the PDA/PIM side of things. Both PPC and Palm have proved this. The reason I don't go with Palm is that PPC do the job better at the moment.
Mark my works. In 5 years time. We won't be having this argument, because all PDAs will have multimedia capabilities. It's just a normal part of technology evolving. Anyone who thinks that PDA's will stay PIM/PDA only, and never integrate laptop-like capabilities is just kidding themselves. It's all ready happened! But it's just the beginning, so everything is still a bit clunky.
I think for the capabilities people often use to say that PPC devices are superior to Palm devices, laptops are much better suited. I've never used a PPC myself; they look too computery for my tastes (if that makes any sense), but I don't mean to imply that they are useless for PDA tasks.
And I'm saying that laptops aren't always an option.
Yes. And I was never saying that a PPC is better than a Palm. I was saying that PPC has capabilities in a PDA that Palm doesn't. It shouldn't be assumed that I think PPC are better than Palm because I can play videos, just because a lot of others think so.
;)) insist that their PPC is a superior PDA because it does do PDA stuff, and my point is that the non PDA stuff is irrelevant if you want a PDA. Some people want a PDA that is more than a PDA, like you (which would be a fruit coctail in my analogy). But some people continue to insist that the ability to play quake is a mark of PDA functionality (calling an apple and orange).
A brief history:
* person says Palm devices are inferior because his PPC device can play Mpegs & Quake
* I say "so what, get a laptop"
* You jump in and say that I'm narrow minded and am holding back PDAs
* I make useless and confusing fruit analogies
* You find my fruit anaologies confusing and useless
* -->current messageNo. I'm asking for a PDA with image editing functionality. You need to stop assuming you know what I want, or what's best for me.
...which would be a device with the image editing functionality found in a laptop, except smaller...
I really don't think that the fruit analogy really works. Especially when you consider that image editing SW is available for Palm anyway. Doesn't that make Palm just as bad as PPC?
No, but judging the Palm's abilities as a PDA by it's ability to perform non-PDA tasks isn't a valid comparison in my opinion. If you want a PDA that does other stuff too, that's fine. But people (I guess I should stop saying you at this point
Mark my works. In 5 years time. We won't be having this argument, because all PDAs will have multimedia capabilities. It's just a normal part of technology evolving. Anyone who thinks that PDA's will stay PIM/PDA only, and never integrate laptop-like capabilities is just kidding themselves. It's all ready happened! But it's just the beginning, so everything is still a bit clunky.
I'm sure we will too, but it will exist as a "cute" feature, an enhancement. Like sound was on the original Newton. The sound was cool. But using my Palm I don't feel that the difference between simple clicks and a crumpling piece of paper effects it's usability.
I also think that devices with more and more capabilities will not be called PDA's. It's kind of like calling a TiVo a digital VCR. It's so much more than that, yet if you tell someone it's a digital VCR they don't grasp all of what it can do. PPC devices are mini computers. They are! Just because it's a mini computer doesn't mean it can't function well as a PDA. But the mere fact that it's a mini computer doesn't make it a superior PDA either. Specs alone don't make one PDA superior to another.
If you check, I think you'll find that Palm OS 5 doesn't run only on ARM devices, it supports ARM devices. That means that a licensee can compile (or buy pre-compiled, I'd guess) the Palm OS for an ARM device if that's what their particular handheld uses, but it doesn't mean they're abandoning the Dragonball support just yet.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions and you shouldn't try to change those opinions. FYI: If it wasn't for Jon Katz and his books, I wouldn't even know that Slashdot exists.
-Buffarama