Serial Cables Illegal Due to DMCA?

Colin McMillen writes "I've recently had an interesting run-in with the DMCA... apparently, US Customs has rejected entry of a PC<->Sega Dreamcast serial cable into the US, supposedly due to copyright violations. This cable was to be used for Dreamcast programming for the Real-Time Systems class offered at my university. This seems to be a clear case of the DMCA abridging a perfectly valid educational use of a perfectly legal piece of hardware."

Comments

Why not?

[Registered Coward v2]

They obviously want to prevent serial crimnials from committing serial crimes.

Publish the pinouts! :)

[Deagol]

Surely someone must already have this cable, who would be willing to post the pinouts in a public forum?

Never having seen a dreamcast, I bet it has a non-standard connector, so a nice pre-fab cable would be better. However, in light of this totally lame event... open pandora's box again.

I suppose you could make your own cable...

[Slipped_Disk]

... but then you'd probably wind up in jail for DMCA Violations anyway.

So much for innovation and advancement.

You'd better not try and import floppy disks

[3141]

What difference is there between the function of a Dreamcast Coders' Cable and that of a floppy disk? Both can be used for transferring both legal and illegal material. It seems somewhat wrong that customs should assume that you're going to use something illegally, especially when the primary use is perfectly legal.

Re:You'd better not try and import floppy disks

[micromoog]

especially when the primary use is perfectly legal

That's just it - the actual primary use is (assumed to be) copyright violation. The stated purpose in the documentation of the cable is another thing; they're going by the percieved actual usage.

The assumption is that this legitimate educational purpose is in the extreme minority of cases.

If the "stated legal usage" were all that mattered, Napster would still be around.

Re:You'd better not try and import floppy disks

[gTsiros]

Your thought is very interesting. Not particularly new, you have to admit, tho. But still, one has got to keep it in mind that things can't be banned if they have multiple uses.

A knife can kill. A knife can also harm unintentionaly. But its primary use is preparing food. Now, if you see a 15" knife, in the hands of a frothing racist, that's a different thing. but 99.999% of the time, it is in our hands (implied: we are not frothing racists), preparing food.

Same with guns. Personaly, i like target practice (paper. not ducks. why kill ducks?). More than that, target practice is much more enjoyable with real weapons. I'd be an unhappy if i either had to pay thru the nose to get a gun and licence or if i wasn't able at all.

pretty much like if you ban violent videogames crime rates won't drop, banning cables won't stop pirates. It just gives then more fuel.

Anyway, just some thoughts...

Re:You'd better not try and import floppy disks

[donglekey]

I say who gives a shit about what something's ambiguous primary use is. The act is illegal not materials. If I want to use a bong to try and invent cold fusion I should have the right to.

Re:You'd better not try and import floppy disks

[maddman75]

If I want to use a bong to try and invent cold fusion I should have the right to.

I'm pretty sure that's what those original cold fusion scientists were using back in the 80s. :)

Re:You'd better not try and import floppy disks

[PenguiN42]

"Remember, all our products at Smokey Hash's Get-High Stoner Shop are for tobacco and cold fusion developmental use only!"

Re:You'd better not try and import floppy disks

[geggibus]

hmm i think the "actual primary use" for large hard disks is copyright violation... ;)

/K

Re:You'd better not try and import floppy disks

[Vegan Pagan]

How about using a gun to invent cold fusion?

Re:You'd better not try and import floppy disks

[Sj0]

What?! You guys don't store gigabytes and gigabytes of C code on your hard drives?

I'm so disillusioned now.

Re:You'd better not try and import floppy disks

[Sj0]

You forgot the thrid -- the most dangerous: Arithmatic. People say it'll be used for "science", and "physics", and "the good of mankind", but we all know that the only use of Mathematics and Logic is breaking copyright protection schemes!

satire is fun, guy!

Re:You'd better not try and import floppy disks

[Zigurd]

Dexter Russell knives only go up to 14" (unless you count the 16" pizza knife - but that has a handle at both ends, so it clearly has a "peaceful" purpose). Therefore anyone wanting a 15 INCH KNIFE must be a terrorist or militia member intending to overthrow the lawfully constituted government and its agents. Your apron is probably in camoflage pattern.

Re:You'd better not try and import floppy disks

[delcielo]

This is obviously a mistake. Somebody just doesn't actually understand it. The cable is obviously legitimate and legal.

I doubt that this is any real personal attack from the DMCA nuts. It's a mistake of the bureaucracy that will linger and take forever to sort out.

Re:You'd better not try and import floppy disks

[Cryptnotic]

It's not though. The people who pirate Dreamcast games don't bother ripping the games themselves, they download copied .iso images from other people. Someone somewhere presumably used a cable (either the Lik-Sang one, or the custom one that you can make for yourself for about $20 in parts) custom boot-disc with a program to read a GD-ROM and dump the data to another computer. Then via the internet and CD-R's, you can get that .iso image anywhere you want.

If, however, you want to have a boot-disc that will read code from the serial port and execute it, then you need a cable like this.

So to download games from the internet, record them to CD-R, and play them on your Dreamcast, you don't need anything but a CD-R drive and an internet connection. However, to get your own personal code to run on the DC without burning a CD-R each time you make a bug-fix, then you need something like this cable.

Cryptnotic

Re:You'd better not try and import floppy disks

[mpe]

That's just it - the actual primary use is (assumed to be) copyright violation.

By that standard you can claim that the "actual primary use" of any tool is to preform illegal acts. It's a completly subjective term.
Maybe the "actual primary use" of pretzels is attempted murder of heads of state...

Re:You'd better not try and import floppy disks

[mpe]

You forgot the thrid -- the most dangerous: Arithmatic. People say it'll be used for "science", and "physics", and "the good of mankind", but we all know that the only use of Mathematics and Logic is breaking copyright protection schemes!

Best also ban chemistry and physics. Since with those people could both build bombs and work out the best place to put them...

Re:You'd better not try and import floppy disks

[cyber-vandal]

At least slightly deranged, judging by my very infrequent visits to Japanese restaurants ;-)

Customs Official or UPS?

[jmoloug1]

It's not clear to me, did UPS internally flag this as a customs violation or did the the US Customs Agency do it? Does anyone out there know how this works? If it was US Customs, then it would seem to me that there would have to be an official appeal mechanism in place. However, if UPS did it internally, that would explain why they don't offer an appeal and why they won't give out info on who to contact.

I had a similar problem with my RoadRunner account a few years ago. The local sysadmin decided that a file I posted to a newsgroup was a copyright violation and cancelled my service. In fact, the file I posted was not copyright protected, but RR refused to hear my appeal and just ignored me.

Re:Customs Official or UPS?

[MrResistor]

As much as I hate them, that's exactly what Lawyers are for. Most of the time you don't even have to have one, just the threat of talking to one is usually enough to get their attention and try to work things out with you.

Also, filing a complaint with your states Better Business Bureu is surprisingly effective, and can usually be done online.

If you really want to be a dick, sue them in small claims court naming the President, CEO, and local sysadmin as defendents. In CA lawyers aren't allowed in small claims court, and if you don't show up you automatically lose.

It's probably a little late now to do any of these, but worth filing away for future consideration.

Re:Customs Official or UPS?

[MrResistor]

Did you bother to read the post I was replying to? I was suggesting remedies to his particular situation, which was quite different than the one detailed in the article, and really linked only by the DMCA. In the particular situation I was responding to small claims would be a very realistic remedy, and assuming small claims works the same where he lives as it does where I do, far preferable to a "real" court as an average citizen has a better chance of prevailing.

In the broader sense, yes it is just a cable, and it could certainly be made if one could acquire the Sega serial connector, and that would certainly be the best solution from a purely utilitarian viewpoint. However, it also avoids an excellent opportunity to contest a bad law which is as yet untested in court, and which will continue to be used to repress legitimate research and learning until successfuly contested.

Re:Customs Official or UPS?

[MrResistor]

It's because of lawyers that we have shit like this happeningI agree, which is why I hate them. But, it is only through lawyers that the situation will be remedied. That's the way the system works.

Re:Customs Official or UPS?

[MrResistor]

I have filed complaints with the BBB in CA several times, for free, and have achieved excellent results. In CA the BBB cuts off or denies approval if there are 3 unresolved complaints on record. I'm sorry the Texas BBB sucks ass.

Re:Customs Official or UPS?

[MrResistor]

Perhaps if you had read the article you would have realized that it was a Real-Time Systems Programming (software, not hardware) Class (they probably need a cable for each student, or at minimum one for each DreamCast).

Oh, and the word you're looking for is "hardwired", not "hardcoded". Hardwiring means soldering, which is an inappropriate requirement in a software class. Hardcoding means programming the firmware, which is what they need the cable for!

And apparently the EFF and Wired think the guy is legit, which you would also know had you bothered to read the article!

Re:Customs Official or UPS?

[MrResistor]

That's why I said "if you want to be a dick". It likely wouldn't get him his service back, but would probably pay for the things you listed as well as any setup costs for new service and/or other fees he may he may have been charged by RR as a result (like fees for early termination of his service contract, for example. I'm not really familiar with RR). Mostly, though, it would be really annoying to everyone he listed in the suit, and , for me at least, that would be a satisfying retribution even if I lost. People who make a lot of money really hate being bothered for such pidly amounts. :-)

Re:Customs Official or UPS?

[MrResistor]

Agreed.

It's the same thing with voting. A lot of people don't vote because "one vote doesn't matter" and "it's all controlled by money". My answer to that is "what if everyone who felt that way voted?".

We've become a nation of whiners, always complaining about how the government's corrupt and The Man is keeping us down. The mechanisms exist for any US citizen to achieve just about anything they are willing to work for. All it takes is time and effort to learn the system.

No ...

[pb]

This is a case of customs intercepting what they perceive to be illegal (mod-chips and whatnot); however, it's disturbing that they don't know or check what the merchandise is, and that they do this under the DMCA, the most far-reaching and untried piece of crappy legislation since the CDA.

However, it might work to everyone's advantage if you pursue this; I would love to see the DMCA overturned, and I'm sure the EFF would too. Therefore, I'm sure many people would be happy to contribute time, effort, or money if you have a case and can pursue it. (it's hard to sue the gov't; I wonder why ...)

What a wonderful world.

[selectspec]

They let Richard Reed onto an airplane, but they take away your serial cable.

Re:What a wonderful world.

[Lemmy Caution]

Of course, those are different "theys." The "they" that let Richard Reed on the plane was airline security at the point of departure. Whether he was to be allowed into the country after he landed is up to the Immigration and Naturalization Service. And whether to allow his stuff in, and how much he'll have to pay as a tarriff, is up to Customs, also at the point of entry into the country (rather than the point of departure) who would, presumably, have taken away his Dreamcast serial cable.

UPS blocking the appeal?

[achbed]

Can UPS block the appeals process by not giving out the name of the port director? This makes an appeal impossible, because the appeal has to be filed with that person. I would think that UPS could be held liable for something here, since they are essentially blocking a citizen's right to an appeal.

As for the customs rules mentioned, if it was "piratical" it should be siezed and held by customs, not returned to the sender. Something sounds extremely fishy here.

Re:UPS blocking the appeal?

[the phantom]

The name of the port director responsible should be available under the Freedom of Information Act. Very few government documents cannot be acessed, basically only military secrets and archaeological site reports.

Re:UPS blocking the appeal?

[Sebastopol]

The name of the port director responsible should be available under the Freedom of Information Act [cornell.edu]. Very few government documents cannot be acessed, basically only military secrets and archaeological site reports.

Ronald Reagan effectively repealed these rights under EO12356.

Re:UPS blocking the appeal?

[Tenebrious1]

Because they hold deep dark secrets like the origins of the Illuminati and the Rosicrucians and their secret plans to take over the world (which they've done already, it just tells how they were going to do it in the planning stages).

I suppose though the goverment will say it's to protect the site from "tomb raiders". There'll tell you about the problems in the Central Americas with tomb raiders looting everything as soon as the archy team turns their backs. But don't you believe it.

Re:UPS blocking the appeal?

[the phantom]

Basically, there is a great deal of fear among archaeologists (myself included) that sites with well published locations will become victim to looting or "pot hunting." This all relates to the National Historic Preservation Act and the Archaeological Resource Protection Act. It was deemed more important to protect such resources than to diclose to potential criminals where they might be able to dig up a few artifacts and make a quick buck.

However, just because archaeologist don't need to disclose such information doesn't mean that such information is not ever released. The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) is currently working of a project to mark and interperate many of the sites along the Pony Express Trail (yes, these are considered archaeological sites: they are older than 50 years and of great significance to US history). The Park Service was organized in large part to disseminate such information, take Chaco Canyon, Hovenweep or Mesa Verdi for examples.

Interestingly enough, this represents about a 270 degree turn around in the last 100 years. Oringinally, federally employed archaeologists were budgeted as "recreation." Their purpose was to hand out maps to tourists so that they could find the best places to collect projectile points (arrow heads). Through the 1950s and 1960s, conservation and an empirical approach to archaeology, rather than excavating for shiny objects, became much more important and the emphasis began to shift to the conservations of archaeological resources. In the early 1970s, Nixon (yes, Nixon) handed down an executive order that eventually became the basis for the National Historic Preservation Act.

From that time until very recently, most federally employed archaeologists have been very reluctant to give out any information at all, and that has been fine. However, some are now begining to realize that the only way to make people care about our shared heratige is to make that information available to the public, thus bringing us back to a point where more information is available, though still no maps showing the best places to loot :)

I hope that goes some way toward answering your question, though no doubt I have given you way more information than you really wanted.

Cheers.

Re:UPS blocking the appeal?

[dhogaza]

Oh, the problems are real. Malheur Lake (one of the largest lakes in the Great Basin) rose about ten feet in the early 80s and in the ensuing years slowly dropped back to its normal level. The surrounding land is very flat, and wave erosion exposed artifacts previously buried in the silty soil.

This lake is part of one of the most significant wildlife refuges in the country. This is only important to make clear that it has always harbored abundant waterfowl, attracting Native American tribes from throughout the region.

Anyway, to make a long story short "pot-hunters" quickly showed up to exploit this new resource. "Pot-hunters" who show up with backhoes, large sifters, and other large-scale aids aren't amateurs, they're harvesting artifacts for illegal sale.

It's Native American heritage that is (literally) stolen, and our National heritage as well, when people poach artifacts on public lands. These lands belong to the citizenry, so stealing artifacts amounts to stealing from the citizenry.

At least legal mine patents result in a whopping $2.50/acre windfall for the taxpayer ($5.00/acre in some cases, and in all cases regardless of the mineral wealth underlying the land being sold).

Outright theft such as that practiced by professional sellers of illegal artifacts returns $0 to the taxpayer.

Re:UPS blocking the appeal?

[the phantom]

Of course... my bad. And I only use this information every day. Damn. Thought I had almost everything covered. Oh well.

Hrrm...

[bl1st3r]

Is anything allowed to be researched anymore? Is research even possible without somehow violating DMCA rights of some company? Almost everything is patented/copyrighted, so therefor, any type of reverse engineering would fall under that category... right?

Re:Hrrm...

[donutello]

I'll bite.

Yes, research is allowed. You are free to research any of your own creations. Feel free to investigate the laws of nature. Feel free to experiment to come up with different ways to travel. Feel free to write software, create art in original ways. None of that is illegal.

Patents have a limited lifetime. Feel free to improve on the methodology employed in the patent or to invent a totally new thing.

Trying to break into and reverse engineer someone elses invention is not research. Being able to copy and record songs someone else composed and performed is not art or creation.

Disclaimer: I have no idea what the article is about or whether the serial cable does indeed have a valid legal use or not. I just get annoyed by all the whiners on Slashdot who bitch and moan about their "rights" to other peoples creations.

Re:Hrrm...

[jgerman]

Disclaimer: I have no idea what the article is about or whether the serial cable does indeed have a valid legal use or not. I just get annoyed by all the whiners on Slashdot who bitch and moan about their "rights" to other peoples creations

Then don't post bullshit rhetoric. The primary use for that cable is for people who want to use the DC as a medium for their own creations. Which they have EVERY right to do since it's their DC. Has Sega made the cable, or produced enough broadband adapters we'd be using those instead. There is a huge difference between reverse engineering and steeling mp3's, don't even try to lump them into the same category.

Re:Hrrm...

[mpe]

Trying to break into and reverse engineer someone elses invention is not research. Being able to copy and record songs someone else composed and performed is not art or creation.

A lot of engineering is built on pre-existing technologies. Taking apart something and "hacking" it to do something new has a very long tradition.
Similarly in music a lot of "borrowing" and copying goes on. Even to the point that there is the specific term "cover version"....

How rediculous

[autopr0n]

btw, there's a k5 story about this for those who care.

This seems to be another UPS fuckup... According to the Customs dep, you're supposed to get 90 days to apeal these types of things, but UPS said there was "no way." that anything can be done.

Asside from that, I think I speak for everyone when I say I find this a little desturbing. I mean, I'm sure Lik Sang has a 'reputation'... but the things are just wires for god sake.

Re:How rediculous

[arkanes]

I have found UPS customer support to consistently be totally unhelpful about anything thats no on the list of options in front of them. If it's not on that list, then nothing can be done, and the list is REALLY short. They won't even bump you up. I'm considering filing a BBB report - the service is just awful.

Re:How rediculous

[afidel]

people who ship critical things internationally on any kind of regular basis know you never use ups or fedex, you use dhl. DHL will get it there no matter what (well not if it would cost a life but pretty damn close).

Re:How rediculous

[DarkZero]

Actually, as I posted on K5, it looks like this might actually be a case of direct discrimination against Lik Sang. They may be denying it because of where it CAME FROM, instead of what it IS, which certainly worries me, because I was about to order from Lik Sang.

DMCA is slow...

[powerlinekid]

I mean come on, this is so 2 years ago. They used to use these cables to get dumps of information off the dreamcast so they could copy the games. The current way is to pop the dreamcast g-cd (yamaho propetary format that holds 1 gig a disk, with 35 meg (approx) being readable in a cdrom and the rest unreadable for laser issues) into a dvd drive and download a program/driver that changes the way your dvd drive uses its laser to read the disk. From what I understand the new way, while very dangerous for your drive is a hell of alot faster than the 20+ hours that it used to take to make a dreamcast iso, especially when you're worried about it melting.

Re:DMCA is slow...

[Suppafly]

This new way you describe is a myth. Everyone knows that.. altho some people that aren't so bright have to learn the hardway when they attempt to flash the roms of there cdr and dvd drives and mess them up.

Re:DMCA is slow...

[powerlinekid]

Its very possible. The problem with reading the g-cd with a cdrom drive is that the intensity of the laser isn't high enough. However a DVD drive can comfortably go into that range. Basically it works roughly the same as custom cd readers such as ISOBuster, etc that use their own system to read in data from the disks and not do it through the OS.

Re:DMCA is slow...

[powerlinekid]

one link, kind of low detail but same idea

heres another from cnet: 2nd link

notice they're about the same group... so yeah i think its possible... practical with the dreamcast being $50? hell no... those babies are awesome... too bad about the lack of games recently though (drop hardware price... people buy more... cut off game supply, games dry up)

Re:DMCA is slow...

[jgerman]

That's funny, I've owned a cable for months, never copied a single game, that's not why I bought it. Hacking the DC is why I bought it, because it's fun and my skills get that much better playing with various architectures.

Re:Publish the pinouts! :)

[Psx29]

http://mc.pp.se/dc/serifc.html

This was a violation of procedure

[Fair Use Guy]

I recently conferred with an undergrad who was importing some obviously bootlegged software CDs from the Orient onto campus for resale. Customs intercepted a particularly large order at one point and held it on DMCA grounds. Here was the sequence of events:

• Order was seized and the recipient was notified
• The recipient was requested to either send the items back, or to sign an affadavit that the items were legal in this country
• The recipient signed the affadavit and the "affected parties", the publishers who had put the CDs on their Customs block list, had three (3) business days to contest the affadavit
• The publishers did nothing, and the shipment went through

The USPS tends to act more in accordance with the proper procedures, and the private shippers tend to discourage them to avoid the trouble and added costs. So if you're going to order something illegal from overseas, the Postal Service is usually the way to go.

/fug

Re:This was a violation of procedure

[Registered Coward v2]

International mail is supposed to have a customs decleration, stating what's inside.

My guess is UPS ties its computer information with US Customs and supplies manifests automatically. It's also possible that certain shippers are flagged as well.

Re:This was a violation of procedure

[mpe]

They knew what was in the box because the US's outstanding military was on watch. Remember they use Gaydar to detect gays in the military before they do any damage to the morale of the already underpaid soliders? Well, they developed DMCAdar at Area 51 and have been putting it to good use.

A lot of effort to cover up for an expensive air defence system, which utterly failed to cope with a real threat. I know that the parent was intended as humour, but it's crazy enough to be true...
Odd how the relatives of those killed in WTC2 and the Pentagon arn't asking some very pointed questions of the US government.

What is being circumvented?

[perlfish]

DMCA is supposed to prevent us from circumventing copy controls. Is a serial interface with (I assume) a non-standard plug a legitimate copy-control that deserves federal protections?

Cable vs. knife

[BlowCat]

Being neighter addict of games nor user of proprietory software, I would normally vote against articles involving so called "piracy" and game machines, but this article raises a very important issue. Should the customs decide which cables are allowed to be imported based on the probability that they will be used illegally? I strongly believe that the notion of "software piracy" is wrong, because the so called "pirates" don't kill or rob anyone - the worst thing they do is depriving artists of some artificial monopoly that the society grants them to stimulate their creativity.

Banning cables is even worse - it creates a notion of "pirates' tool", something tangible that can be used as a "weapon" by "bad guys" and should be kept out of the country.

Isn't it strange that I can import a knife but I cannot import a cable?

Re:Cable vs. knife

[Lonath]

Isn't it strange that I can import a knife but I cannot import a cable?

Well, if your priorities weren't so screwed up, you would notice that a knife can only be used to injure or kill a few people before the attacker gets caught. The victims probably won't be rich people, so they really aren't worth that much to the economy and society anyway. OTOH, a cable like this can be used to steal Copyrighted Digital Content, which can then be copied an infinite number of times, thereby causing an infinite loss to the economy.

Re:Cable vs. knife

[jgerman]

HEHE mod this guy up, that's a good argument ad absurdium, comparing murder to copying games. Hehe, not to mention that most people use the cable to write their own software for it or d/l other peoples free creations.... oh the parent wasn't kidding was he.

Re:Cable vs. knife

[i_am_nitrogen]

I want to know how you can use a serial cable illegally. The only use I can think of is development, and there's nothing illegal about Dreamcast development in your basement, so long as you aren't distributing a copyrighted IP.BIN. Serial cable is way too slow to transfer any Dreamcast game anyway. You'd have to have a BBA, which costs way too much.

OT: anyone know where I can get a Dreamcast LAN adapter? (The kind that doesn't work with most stuff, and comes with "Dream Passport." HIT-0300 model.)

Re:Cable vs. knife

[Lonath]

oh the parent wasn't kidding was he.

Are you saying that my dry sarcastic wit has gotten so dry that it is indistinguishable from a pro-IP troll?

Re:Cable vs. knife

[jgerman]

It's the medium. I'm certainly glad it was a joke, believe me if I'd have heard it in person I'd have loved it.

Re:Cable vs. knife

[Pogue Mahone]

I want to know how you can use a serial cable illegally.

Well, you could use it to string up Sen. Hollings or one of the other "representatives" who support this
crap.

(Only kidding - death's too good for 'em)

Re:Outrageous!

[hypergreatthing]

>The USA is becoming a police state.
Wake up, rub yer eyes and smell the coffee, this is a police state. Maybe it hasn't affected you yet, but rest assured, it sure as hell will.

How is a serial cable in the Dreamcast different

[TrainedMonkey]

... from one in a PC? What I mean is, a serial cable is just a way to interface with a port under a certain specification (in this case a serial protocol). The fact that the Dreamcast has a serial connector indicates that its use is legal.
Why will anybody put a connector that you are NOT supposed to use??!! So now using the serial cable is illegal... does this make the use of the parallel port in my PC illegal? (If so, I am going to jail because I can't remember how many times I have used it ;)
Now seriously, the custom office does NOT know how the serial cable is going to be used, so they assumed that it was going to be used the "wrong" way. In that case very soon, custom should stop anybody ordering bricks from China (or somewhere else, for that matter), because killing people is illegal in the USA, and bricks can be used to kill people...

It is not just the DMCA: it is the whole idea, very popular these days in political talk, that if something can be used for harmful purposes, it needs to be banned inmediately because it will be used in that manner.

Am I now of "a piratical nature"?

[medcalf]

My six-year old will be thrilled! Arrrh.

Re:How does UPS know that this is contraban?

[TheLoneCabbage]

If this is how they do it, the DMCA would be a HUGE boon for forign manufacturers. Most forign companies are primarily going to be interested in the USA markets. Sony can shut some one out just by putting them on a list? Would such a company have any legal recourse? Could they sue in there own contries? Could they apeal to US courts? If so companies like Sony could do REAL damage to their emerging competition.

Companies like MS could even delclare forign products "piraticle" and have them banned.

Granted this is far-flung, but couldn't MS do the same thing by declaring Mandrake Gaming Eddition a "piraticle" product, since it interfaces with their API's without their permission?

Re:College course work on a game system?

[gorillasoft]

Anyway, don't you need a license from Sony to develop software for the dreamcast? If you don't have one, how is wrong to restrict access to a tool that's only purpose is do development, even if its academic.

No wonder the Dreamcast folded - you apparently need a license from Sony to develop software for it. Naturally, they denied all licenses so that Sega's product couldn't compete with the PS1/PS2.

Re:One problem

[jandrese]

s that they do not know your true intentions. They saw what was being imported, and thought some 1337 h4x0r was going to use it to copy Dreamcast software.

This has to be a troll. Are you suggeting they should disallow import of anything that could be used to break the law? Like Pencils that can be used to stab people?

Re:Not a normal Serial Cable

[Fizzlewhiff]

I don't get how this cable is a copyright breach, though

If the cable has a proprietary interface that Sega holds a patent for and this company in Hong Kong is making them without a license then it is clearly a violation.

That explain the postal delay...

[jsse]

That'd be totally unrelated to this thread, but it matters to the case so please bear with me.

I live in Hong Kong and I found unexpected delay in postal services recently(around a year or so, even before 911). I do a lot of mails/packages back and forth US(has a lot of friends in US) and the time it takes seems to be lengthened to at least 2-3 times than normal. My X'mas present to one of my friend in US just arrive yesterday, but I shipped it before X'mas.

Until you bought it up I noticed that the time it took for computer equipment seems to be taking much longer. A friend of mine who was carrying a box of modems with cables was being strip-searched at the US custom.(he thought it's due to 911, but it's rather unusual to be detained 4 hours...)

I was wondering, does US customs pick on all packages from and to Hong Kong? I asked several ebay sellers they said it takes unusual long time to delivery goods to me.

Exactly how many time, money and resource US Government is spending on monitoring citizens' mails?

Anyone would kindly tell me?

P.S. to original poster, have you tried UPS, DHL or Fedex? Did they reject your goods like USPS?

Re:That explain the postal delay...

[Quixote]

P.S. to original poster, have you tried UPS, DHL or Fedex? Did they reject your goods like USPS?
Read the article, Einstein. He was using UPS.

damages

[www.sorehands.com]

I am going to disgree here. Besides pissing and moaning to congress, there is little to be done until there is a harm.

Look at the Felton suit, the court ruled that there was no harm, so they dismissed the case. Now, that someone has been harmed (not just threatened with harm), now he can get a lawyer involved and go after Sega.

Maybe he can get the school to talk the lawyer that handled the Felton case.

If I remember correctly, items of soley functional design (as opposed to artistic) cannot be copyrighted. So, the pinout or shape should not be copyrightable. Remember the Apple ][ clones? Some shipped them in without eproms to get around that.

Re:damages

[pythas]

Why the fuck would you sue Sega????????

They aren't involved in anyway, other than producing the Dreamcast hardware. Sue the US Government, sue UPS, sue ANYONE BUT SEGA.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. The fact that it got 4 points makes it more so.

Re:How silly

[ichimunki]

Access to entertainment? When gene and medicine patents promise to keep biotech corps in double digit profits for years to come, while medical care expenses for the average citizen continue to go through the roof?

Access to entertainment? When only ten major corporations own nearly the full spectrum of visible, audible, and legible media for informational purposes as well as amusement?

Access to entertainment? When increasingly patented "technologies" are being used to generate our food supply, from medications for animals, to fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides, when the seeds themselves have become "intellectual property"?

Access to entertainment? When the government provides for arrest and confiscation in matters surrounding nothing more significant that copying stuff without permission?

Access to entertainment? When the government itself invests heavily in technology "licensed" from firms more willing to rely on tech-secret laws (i.e. DMCA) to keep problems under wraps than they are to truly eliminate security issues on their own? When national security depends on this technology?

At least for now? It's already the case that these laws cause "real" harm to society, and hold the potential for a lot more damage to be done.

Make your own coders cable!!

[radd0]

This is complete and utter hogwash. You may not be able to walk in to BestBuy and "hoarde them all" but you can definitely make your own. Marcus Comstedt has a very resourceful Dreamcast Programming site, which also documents how to build the DC to PC serial adapter ("DC coders cable") at: http://mc.pp.se/dc/serifc.html As the victim of this so-called upholding of the DMCA has acknowledged on his own site, the DC broadband adapter would be the way to go, but is a much more expensive route. Happy coding... -r

"MPAA representative 'totally shocked'"

[Chris Burke]

When MPAA PR representative Ima Weasel was told about this apparent restriction of legitimate educational use of a harmless device in the name of the DMCA, she replied that she was "totally fucking shocked".

"Seriously," she drawled, "we would have never guessed that, like, someone's rights would be impinged by the DMCA. You know, cus we aren't about that. If we'd have known stuff like this would happen, we'd have never lobbied for the damn law in the first place." Mrs. Weasel apparently had some sort of coughing fit, but when she recovered, she added in a strained voice: "Because you know, the MPAA is about protecting the people's rights. We would never get in the way of something like that knowingly, even if it meant making less money. Because... We love our customers!"

At this point she let out a cackle like the witch from Loony Toons, and rode off on her broom. One of her aides informed the interviewer that the MPAA had no further comments on the issue.

What are you doing?!

[quantaman]

CmdrTaco you just proposed and she said YES!!! What are you doing still at work?!? Go out and party!!!!!!

Re:What are you doing?!

[donglekey]

I second that, go out and have fun man!! Congratulations!!

Re:What are you doing?!

[Glorat]

Where are my mod points when I need them?! While +1 Funny, Mr. Taco, this is a +1 Insightful post. Take heed =P

Does anyone else wonder...

[rnturn]

...why, with so many other, more important things to be worrying about, the customs officials are watching for serial cables? Ever hear of priorities, Mr. Customs Man?

Jeez...

I worked at Sega...

[The Vulture]

...for John Byrd actually, up until February 2001, when Sega of Japan dropped the axe on the Sega of America Third-Party Developer Technical Support (DTS). I have contacted him about this article, and maybe he can say a few words (however, he does not work for Sega anymore, so I don't know what effect his words will have).

Truth be told, when we were at Sega, we were following the amateur programmers, and we knew that there was no way that we could stop them (not that the youthful hackers in us really wanted to). I don't know if this will help you any, but Sega of America actually ran a mailing list at one time for amateur VMU (Visual Memory Unit) programmers - this may be useful in establishing some credibility that Sega was encouraging development. Of course, then again, there was usually a difference between what SOA and SOJ wanted. :(

Although I do not know where the links are for making the cables, it is possible to do so (and I believe that somebody else pasted the link). The only catch is finding the Dreamcast serial port side. Rather than ordering from Hong Kong, you might want to see if you can find the Japanese ISDN cable, which is the real version of the cable you are looking for (I have one at home). I don't remember the part number, but I can look it up tonight. That and a null-modem adaptor, and you're in business.

Absolutely rediculous what is going on. I wonder when my homeland of Canada will begin to follow suit. :(

Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, and not Sega of America, Sega of Japan, John Byrd, or any other current or former Sega employee.

-- Joe

Re:Reverse Engineering Copyright Violation

[vidarh]

Yes, but if Sega approves then it makes the case even more ridiculous, and a powerful argument against the DMCA.

If US Customs is attempting to "protec" a companys interests via the DMCA by preventing import of a device that enables activity the company explicitly approve of, that should be a real eye opener for corporate friendly politicians.

Re:College course work on a game system?

[MindStalker]

Just cause everyone pronounces Sega, "Sony," nowadays, doesn't mean you need to spell it that way!

capitalist property rights games

[dattaway]

hmmmm... a patent covering the serial transfer of data over a twisted pair of wires accompanied by control lines limiting bandwidth in a controlled fashion.

Sprinkled with enough multisyllabic buzzwords, the most obvious and time proven techniques can be novel.

Re:One problem

[mccalli]

Unfortunately, they must err on the side of caution.

With the guiding principle of law being innocent until proven guilty, they must do no such thing.

Cheers,
Ian

Broken record

[Anonymous Coward]

God I hate to sound redundant but...

We told you guys this would happen when the idiots started banning guns. "Guns hurt people," the fools would blather. Yes, if you're annoyed by what I'm saying, you're one of the fools who made this mess. Thanks, asshole.

Oddly enough, crime didn't go down. Rather, it got worse.

Next it was boxcutters, knives, razors, screwdrivers (had two of those in my PC bag confiscated in Miami last week). Teeny little PC screwdrivers, now regarded as a deadly weapon.

Yet criminals figure out another way.

Either we're going to have to put an end to this idiocy and get more of the population supporting the punishment of criminals, not inanimate objects, or we're going to keep going down the slope until the only people that have stuff are the governmental elite and those that can afford to pay them off for the priveledge.

Re:Broken record

[HalfFlat]

er, guns do hurt people. That and hunting are indeed their primary purposes.

Unsurprisingly there are fewer gun deaths per capita in those democracies where gun use is restricted.

Gun laws won't stop the sole loony with an illegally owned gun doing the rampage thing. But such loons aren't the ones responsible for the amazingly large number of people who get shot in the US every year.

However you may feel about gun control, comparing them to a device that may have application in unauthorized copying of software is ludicrous.

Re:Broken record

[DarkZero]

However you may feel about gun control, comparing them to a device that may have application in unauthorized copying of software is ludicrous.

This is because you COMPLETELY missed the point of what he was saying. In this context, this serial cable and a gun definitely have a lot in common. They're both part of a general trend in American (Western?) society today toward banning the tool used in a crime, instead of just banning the crime and punishing the offenders. It started with guns, a tool that most people are in favor of banning, despite the fact that it has both legitimate and illegitimate uses. Now, in a time when anti-gun laws have been getting more and more strict in the US for over a decade, the prophesies that those "psycho gun nuts" made is coming true: Once a government starts blaming tools for crimes instead of just the people that commit them, no tool is safe, because almost any tool can be used for both good and evil. Screwdrivers can screw nails in... but they can also be used to stab someone or pry open a machine that's protected by copyrights. Box cutters can cut boxes open and be used for household cutting purposes... but they can also be used to stab people. Serial cables can be used for legitimate, legal communication between two electronic devices... but they can also be used to break copyrights, as well as strangle someone. Do you see where this is going? Guns can be used to kill an innocent baby, defend a family, shoot a convenience store clerk, hunt deer, and shoot an inanimate target ("target" as in the kind with a bull's eye on it). Personally, I don't think guns should be banned, but that's not the point of this post, nor the one you replied to. The point is whether or not we have to go as far as banning a tool, and thus banning both its legitimate and illegitimate uses, when misusing it is already a crime.

Re:Broken record

[mpe]

This is because you COMPLETELY missed the point of what he was saying. In this context, this serial cable and a gun definitely have a lot in common. They're both part of a general trend in American (Western?) society today toward banning the tool used in a crime, instead of just banning the crime and punishing the offenders.

This method generally does not work. Instead the result is a black market where it may actually even be easier for criminals to get hold of them than before they were made illegal. Anyway criminals tend not to care much if the tools they use are legal or illegal.

It started with guns, a tool that most people are in favor of banning, despite the fact that it has both legitimate and illegitimate uses.

I'm not sure it did actually start with tools, it appears more an extension of the policy of "prohibition" from drugs to tools.

The point is whether or not we have to go as far as banning a tool, and thus banning both its legitimate and illegitimate uses, when misusing it is already a crime.

Very often the misuse has been a crime for a very long time.

Re:hard to make?

[Gizzmonic]

Yes, you can make your own. You just have to order a Dreamcast serial cable (used for networking games like Virtual On 2 and Ferrari F355 Challenge) and splice it together with a regular serial cable. You can get the DC serial cable from level six or Lik-Sang.

I myself ordered a "DC Coder's Cable" from Lik-Sang a few months ago, and had it shipped via airmail (USPS). It arrived without a problem. Anyway, the fact that SEGA would nail people for this is very strange, especially since the DC is all but dead and the serial cables are (mostly) used for legitimate purposes, by Dreamcast homebrew hackers.

I wonder if this thing was misidentified by customs as one of Lik-Sang's "Gameboy Advance Backup and Development system. Nintendo has always been more sensitive to piracy, and the GameBoy Advance seems like a big enough market to crack the whip on.

Goodbye to Amercian technology

[Ice Tiger]

It is terrible to see this effect from the DMCA. Basically it is destroying technical education in the US. Long term this could be a very bad thing and just turn the US into a nation of consumers and not producers, which will eventually destroy the market that the DMCA backers are trying to protect.

Or I could be totally wrong.

Lik Sang

[alech]

From what I've read on the dcdev mailinglist, this rather seems to be a problem with Lik Sang, then with the cable itself.

Lik Sang stopped selling modchips to the US, Canada, Mexico and "other Latin american countries" as well...

So, for me it seems it is rather a problem of customs vs. Lik-Sang then a DMCA problem...

Quoting a mail from John Goggan which just arrived on the dcdev mailinglist:

Just so people know, here is the situation with Lik-Sang... Customs recently started checking ALL of Lik-Sang's shipments to the US (under the guise of trying to stop any NEO4s from coming in -- even though Lik-Sang immediately stopped shipping them when they were announced as being against the DMCA). They were denying coder's cables, gameboy wormlights, everything. Basically, it looks like they were too lazy to hand-check the packages and just refused almost all of them going from Lik-Sang into the US via UPS. They also did not inform Lik-Sang of this until 3 days after they started denying them -- so a bunch were refused without Lik-Sang's knowledge. They heard from an engineer in the US that was waiting for a USB connector sample from Lik-Sang that tried to call customs and explain that they parcel they had stopped had nothing to do with the DMCA. They told him that they are "CERTAIN that they know what kinds of goods that Lik-Sang are shipping." Bah. Idiots. Note that Lik-Sang has STILL not received their packages BACK yet. In any case, Lik-Sang has now worked out their issues with UPS and will begin shipping with them again very soon. Basically, it looks like UPS is doing all they can to help Lik-Sang get around custom's evil tactics now. heh. They have changed to EMS Speedpost temporarily for shipments to the USA, but said that UPS will be back as their primary shipping method for the USA by the end of the month (note that some of that delay is due to Lik-Sang moving to a new warehouse in HK -- not just the customs issues). Just wanted to clear that up. Some guys at Lik-Sang are friends of mine, so I asked them what was up -- and passed it along to you all.

Must be illegal

[eaddict]

My company has the site blocked on the firewall so it HAS to be a Bad Thing(tm).

Privacy of the Mail?

[Rayonic]

I thought that one of the perks of living in the U.S.A. was that they didn't open all your mail, like in the Soviet Union or China. At least, that's what I was taught in grammar school.

Or was that never true of international mail? Exactly what can or can't they open? Is domestic mail safe? Do they need a warrant?

Re:Privacy of the Mail?

[nagora]

All international mail in and out of the US has been opened for at least thirty years. All international calls have been monitored for at least 15 years, probably more.

Most countries reserve the right to open international mail as a matter of routine to check for duty-payable goods such as artwork etc.

TWW

Re:College course work on a game system?

[gte910h]

Anyway, don't you need a license from Sony to develop software for the dreamcast? If you don't have one, how is wrong to restrict access to a tool that's only purpose is do development, even if its academic.

bzzt...WRONG!. You can't be prohibited from downloading software you wrote to a piece of hardware that you own, as long as you don't circumvent any encryption to do so. That is the use the guy has for the dreamcast.

Re:Hack-A-Cable (Or Better Yet, Try Google First)

[Gaijin42]

The point is not that he could get around it, the point is he shouldnt have to, because he bought the friggen cable to begin with.

I can make hamburgers real easy. Should that make me less annoyed when they make it illegal for me to buy one at McDonalds?

You Make a Good Point (but You're Wrong)

[FreeUser]

It is terrible to see this effect from the DMCA. Basically it is destroying technical education in the US. Long term this could be a very bad thing and just turn the US into a nation of consumers and not producers,

You are absolutely, 100% correct up to this point, and indeed make an excellent point too many people overlook.

However:

which will eventually destroy the market that the DMCA backers are trying to protect.

Or I could be totally wrong.

Yes, and here's why:

The DMCA backers have absolutely no interest in protecting the computer industry, or indeed any of the markets which will be destroyed by the DMCA over the next five or ten years. Indeed, they could really care less (and in some cases would welcome such destruction, particularly of the internet and computer-related products that allow such easy, and to them unwholesom, copying).

They are solely interested in protecting our Bread and Circuses, in particular the Media and Copyright Cartels that have diluted and dumbed down our once-rich culture into mass-disseminated least-common-denominator pop.

If you will recall from your history, the Bread and Circuses industry can survive, even thrive in an economy which has otherwise completely imploded, and will generally continue to do so until the entire civilization falls and is destroyed. I refer you to the last centuries of the Roman Empire as an historical example (by no means unique, but certainly the most widely known example of this), when leaders would choose to use their distribution networks (ships) to ship sand rather than desperately needed food or other goods, for the sake of the games.

The DMCA was designed to protect the entrenched media interests by outlawing much of basic science and engineering, and indeed much of the technology, integral to continuing the "information revolution." They know this, we know this, and they just don't care, so long as their business models are protected. Indeed, as things get worse people are likely to seek more escape, not less, so they can reasonably expect to see their profits soar as a result.

Re:You Make a Good Point (but You're Wrong)

[Ice Tiger]

Just as a question, if the US becomes non competetive with the rest of the world due to DMCA, will this not destroy the profit that the DMCA backers want?

Bread and Circuses was more to distract the population from changing thier leaders whereas the DMCA backers do not get replaced by a change in governement.

Some good discussion here.

Iain

Re:You Make a Good Point (but You're Wrong)

[FreeUser]

Just as a question, if the US becomes non competetive with the rest of the world due to DMCA, will this not destroy the profit that the DMCA backers want?

Entertainment money is an interesting thing. Hollywood made bocoup bucks during the great depresseion, a time when, in the United States at least, people were scrounging for enough to eat and many were actually starving.

The same has held true during every recession: spending on entertainment has stayed steady even as spending on basics (like food) declines. Faced with a good meal or two hours of escape from our tepid reality, a great many of us seem to choose two hours of escape.

So, even if most of the other segments of our economy are depressed as a result of gutting our high-tech industry, which is what laws like the DMCA, the proposed SSSCA and UCITA, are essentially designed to do in order to protect some outdated but deeply entrenched interests, it is likely the Bread and Circuses Industry, if you will, will continue to do well. What this means is that this problem is not self-correcting at all, unfortunately.

Bread and Circuses was more to distract the population from changing thier leaders whereas the DMCA backers do not get replaced by a change in governement.

I won't get into a debate about who is actually governing in a system where politicians can be purchased so inexpensively (relative to even a small corporations annual profits), but I will point out that Bread and Circuses are there to distract the populace, pure and simple. Whether it is distraction from an expansion of an unconstitutional (but popular) war on drugs to an even more unconstitutional (and even more popular) war on terrorism, distraction from inept leadership granting monopolies to telcos and refusing to enforce the law against software monopolies, or simply distraction from the emptiness of one's own existence isn't so much the point as it is a distraction. It is intended to be, it is designed to be, and it serves the purposes of many levels of power and influence in our governance, including our formal government as well as the large corporations that appear to be calling the shots more and more blatently.

It is likely for this reason, as much as any other, that congress, the white house, and the judiciary are willing to overlook inconvinient portions of the constitution and threaten entire industries which are in no small part responsible for our affluence in the last two decades simply to protect the purveyors of said Bread and Circuses.

The DMCA specifically allows R.E.ing

[yerricde]

Reverse engineering is supposedly covered under Fair Use, right?

In fact, the letter of the DMCA (17 USC 1201(f)) makes an exception to its anti-circumvention provisions for acts of reverse engineering "necessary to achieve interoperability." (The reasoning in the 2600 case was flawed, and it's in appeals right now.)

Re:Does it make them illegal?

[blibbleblobble]

Look, IT WAS RETURNED ON THE CHARGE OF BEING A COPYRIGHT VIOLATION. Can somebody please explain to me what was copied? Does somebody own american copyright on how to design these serial cables?

The possible uses for the cable have no relevance whatsoever, for the same reason that cooking knives are not illegal, nor is hot coffee, nor are bowls of water.

"The percieved normal use for coffee is that of burning people, therefore we are impounding your caffenated drink under assault laws. As everyone knows, or should know, the centre of the coffee industry is Belgium, thus we require you to stand trial in a Belgian court"

Can the americans please grow up, and spend some time fixing their legal system? It's so annoying that nobody from the free world dares to visit, and the EFF's AGM has to be in Canada.

Don't be deliberately obtuse- Patented _Connector_

[Nonesuch]

dattaway wrote:

hmmmm... a patent covering the serial transfer of data over a twisted pair of wires accompanied by control lines limiting bandwidth in a controlled
fashion.

I assume you are being deliberately obtuse. Clearly the patent is on the connector, that is to say, the physical interface.

Sega can legitimately hold a patent on an 'innovative and non-obvious' mechanism for the physical contacts and plug configuration for their custom serial port. This can be a valid use of patents, even though we find it repulsive that they use their patent to restrict who can interface hardware to their system...

Rediculous counter argument from both of you...

[gfxguy]

That someone can make their own is completely irrelevent - that a legitimate item was stopped by customs (or whomever) because it MIGHT have uses that violate the DMCA is the point of the discusion.

This whole thing is absurd.

Re:One problem

[GreyPoopon]

Unfortunately, they must err on the side of caution.

I'm sorry, but this is just a lame excuse. Following this line of thought, they had better hurry up and BAN importation and construction of WLAN cards. These clearly are a violation of the DMCA because they permit people to drive around in cars with laptops and tap into corporate networks to steal copyrighted and private materials. In fact, maybe they should just ban laptops and automobiles altogether.

The single biggest problem is that they provided *NO METHOD* for him to discuss the case with the person who made the decision to reject entry of his shipment. If there were even reasonable controls in place to make sure innocent people weren't harmed by this law, it might not draw such anger from. But the DMCA is probably one of the biggest reasons for campaign finance reforms outside of Enron and Microsoft. It clearly was not well thought out, and is an attempt to prevent potential crimes by eliminating the tools with which they are committed, at the obvious expense of legitimate use of those tools.

Answer: Civil Dosibedience

[argoff]

The DMCA is but a branch on a vine who'se seed is the attitude that it is alright to derive value by restricting the copying practices of others. Even if we can't attack the DMCA in the courts we can directly attack copyright laws by defiance and civil disobedience. I would say that it is not only all right, but a duty because so much is at stake. It is a simple solution that is non violent, non coercive, and relatively low risk, the fact that we have it so easy compaired to others who suffered and died for liberties is a blessing and an opportunity that should not be ignored or passed up.

Re:Answer: Civil Dosibedience

[donutello]

Idiot. The people who died for civil liberties died for basic human rights. The right to vote. The right to be born a free person. The right for all people to be treated equally.

It makes me sick to the stomach to hear a pimple faced teenager compare that to the right to copy someone elses works or creations.

Re:Answer: Civil Dosibedience

[argoff]

Yes, last I renembered they died for things like freedom of speech. This freedom is directly being threatened by the DMCA today, and only a moron could deny it. Copying and immitating is a basic human right that is practiced from day we're born, the consequences of restricting it on learning, education, and culture will rip society to shreads as more laws like the DMCA are shoved down our throats. It is sickening to see people in such denial they spit on they very rights they exercise in promotion of such a farce and the prople who fought for them.

Re:Answer: Civil Dosibedience

[argoff]

You guys are just pissed because you can't pump all that mass media crap everywhere for free. For some of us, who are tired of the mass market 'entertainment' we're glad it's being contained by the producers. I have no sympathy for the bandwidth hogs who pump the same digital images all over the 'net, interfering with real communications, which is a two-way process.

Why is it that everyone thinks that opposition to copyrights is just about kids who want to copy music or videos? And this is also dead wrong, copyrights promote a culture of hype over substance, they promote this "anything to get attention" attitude because that's what makes the most money. If you get rid of copyrights, then that will change.

Don't give them ideas! (was Re:Cable vs. knife)

[Nonesuch]

BlowCat writes:

Banning cables is even worse - it creates a notion of "pirates' tool", something tangible that can be used as a "weapon" by "bad guys" and should be kept out of the country.

Actually, in the UK, knives are something that can be banned from import -- they even restrict printed magazines that promote 'combat knives' on the basis that they are a tool only for the "bad guys".

References:

• The Criminal Justice Act 1988
• http://law.rainertech.co.uk/justice.htm
• Offensive Weapons Act 1996

The one good reference I had on the advertising restrictions was an AOL homepage that has since vanished... you'll have to do the research yourself if you won't take my word on the laws.

Re:Publish the pinouts! :)

[Jandor14]

I ordered one of these cables from lik-sang recently and had it shipped via Fed Ex into the U.S. with no problems.

The pre-fab cable is nice and most of the first home built ones used a dc to neo geo link cable. The neo geo link cable is hard to find anymore but Sega does/did sell a serial cable to connect two dreamcasts together. Using this cable and the link already provided by Psx29 to Marcus Comstedt's site you could make two dc coder cables! There should be no DMCA problems with that! The official sega cables are hard to find but there are third parties who make dc accessories that also offer a clone of the official sega cable.

Of course if you don't mind a little more permanent solution just attach the wires directly to the pins on the dc's serial port :-)

Re:Don't be deliberately obtuse- Patented _Connect

[Elbows]

Yes, but is changing the arrangments of the pins
and shape of the connector on one end of normal
serial cable "innovative" or "non-obvious"?

Somehow it doesn't seem that way to me...

Re:Not a normal Serial Cable

[ftobin]

I don't get how this cable is a copyright breach, though

If the cable has a proprietary interface that Sega holds a patent for and this company in Hong Kong is making them without a license then it is clearly a violation.

You have clearly not answered the question. What was asked was where there is a copyright violation. Copyright has nothing to do with patents, except that the whole concept is muddled together under the vague idea of intellectual property.

Re:College course work on a game system?

[ethereal]

Heck, you can even circumvent encryption too as long as it's not encryption intended as part of a copy protection scheme.

patents violating consumer property rights

[dattaway]

What if they had a patent designed to prevent the consumer from interfacing with their purchased product. Or does the consumer not "own" property anymore, but have only "usage rights" these days and reverse engineering be damned.

"You may not import a product to allow a competitor's tires to fit our car. Your car is the property of the manufacturer and must be surrendered upon demand if the end usage terms and conditions are violated."

Re:One problem

[monkeydo]

Bzzt. You are only innocent until proven guilty in _criminal_court_ Your "guiding principle" has no bearing on anything else.

How do you think customs works? "I think this stuff is cocaine, but I don't have a search warrant so I can't test it, you know 4th ammendment and all. I guess we should just send it on its way!" Ha! When you ship something into or out of this country expect it to be opened, rifled through and if the Customs officer can't determine that it is permitted it will be held up.

I think this guy is getting the screw job from UPS, not USC, if it was Customs, he should get notice and instructions on how to appeal.

Re:Probable cause?

[mr. roboto]

I thought you guys had a constitutional safeguard against this sort of behaviour?

Barely. Don't get me started on the marginal constitutionality of drug-related seizure laws. This is a special case though; we're not talking about search and seizure of property, we're talking about customs controls. Customs has the responsibility (and power) to control what enters the country. If you're going to be importing something, you've got to be willing to let customs have a look at it. If they don't like it, they won't let it in. It's like that everywhere, I think.

"educational use" = piracy

[Dr. Awktagon]

Yeah, we all know what this guy was going to do. If he wasn't going to pirate games and deprive Sony of their earned income, then he was probably going to "hack" the console, and we all know hacking is illegal.

As part of the lab, we are intending on using the Sega Dreamcast console as a real-time system; we'll be writing a scheduler for it and some simple games.

Man, an entire class devoted to stealing other people's work? I think it's time for a TOP TO BOTTOM review of our educational system, and we need to route out these thieves pretending to be teachers. Put them behind bars I say!

The Dreamcast isn't even mine; it's my roommate's.

Sure, steal from Sony, steal from your roommate, steal from old ladies, steal from your Church, what's the difference?

Looks to me like the DMCA was working just fine, and stopped another potential criminal from commiting a crime. Does this guy really think he's smarter than Congress, who knew exactly what they were doing when passing this law?

(Note this post is a JOKE. And a bad one at that. :-) Move along.)

What I would do

[MrResistor]

First order of business is to file complaints with as many government agencies as possible. Basically, make yourself a huge pain in the ass. File complaints with the FTC against UPS and US Customs, as they are clearly obstructing your 5th Amendment right to Due Process by refusing to provide information necessary to appeal the decision. While you are not being accused of a crime directly, you are certainly being deprived of property (and perhaps liberty, depending on the legal definition) without the opportunity to contest that decision (due process). Be sure to file a complaint against UPS with your local BBB alo, as well as any other agency with any power to regulate trade and business practices. Like I said, make yourself as bigg of a pain in the ass as you can. The squeeky wheel gets the grease.

Next, talk to a Lawyer about forcing UPS to provide that information, and perhaps persuing other avenues of compensation for their negligence. Also, discuss the possibility of bringing suit against US Customs contesting their misapplication of the DMCA. Obviously, you want to start by talking to folks with deeper pockets than your own who might take an interest in the matter, such as the EFF and your schools legal department. (I did see the EFF mentioned, but not UMNs stance. UMN is probably more likely to get directly involved than the EFF, since this directly effects the quality of education they are able to offer their students and the research they are able to do.)

Anyway, that's what I would do.

Re:What I would do

[MrResistor]

Read it again.

The 5th Amendment contains the phrase "nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law".

The 14th amendment contains almost the same statement, except that it applies specifically to the States. US Customs, however, is a Federal agency, and thus it is the 5th Amendment that applies.

He is most definately being denied property (the cables), and by UPS withholding from him the information he needs to appeal that judgement, he is being denied due process. How is that so difficult to understand? There are a lot of ways for the government to violate your rights besides throwing you in jail.

Re:What I would do

[MrResistor]

That's irrelevant. He is still being denied property, and he is still being prevented from contesting that decision, and UPS and US Customs are still violating the law by withholding the information he needs. From the US Customs website:

All seizures, forfeitures, mitigation, and property dispositions are strictly governed by laws designed to afford the greatest possible due process.

The importer is provided with a "Notice of Seizure," listing the items seized, the law(s) violated, the violator's options (rights and time to petition, elect judicial or administrative processing, etc.) and the Customs contact location and telephone number.

Note also that the cable itself is not even illegal. It is merely sold by a company that at one time sold, but no longer sells, a product which was deemed illegal under the DMCA.

Doesn't Matter. DMCA's not about patents

[sterno]

What does Sega having or not having a patent have to do with this? The DMCA is all about circumventing an access control measure to a copyrighted work, and doesn't really care about what Sega's patents are. If they want to go after the company manufacturing them for patent infringement, fine (assuming they have a patent), but that has nothing to do with this issue.

What we have happening here is that an item is being forbidden to enter the country because it MIGHT be usable for bypassing an access control to a copyrighted work. The DMCA makes no distinction about whether the item may have other leagl uses. Seems like a lawsuit is in order against the US customs department, and this has some really strong legal ground to stand on.

Or maybe not a Patented Connector? Japanese ISDN?

[Nonesuch]

On further reading, it appears that the connector itself may just be the Japanese standard ISDN plug, and not something Dreamcast-unique. You still need a special cable to do the conversion between TTL and RS-232 voltages.

This conversion is a very common issue with a lot of products, schematics and chips to handle the adjustment are all over the net.

Elbows writes:

Yes, but is changing the arrangments of the pins and shape of the connector on one end of normal serial cable "innovative" or "non-obvious"?
Somehow it doesn't seem that way to me...

Actually, yes- I have seen some truly innovative means of connecting serial interfaces, including some really ancient IBM technology that is truly bizarre- looks like some sort of electroshock torture device, but apparently works really well :-)

The USPTO has been pretty lax about this sort of thing, pretty much pay your money and get a 'rubber stamp' approval without any real review.

Re:Does it make them illegal?

[zeno_2]

Its funny that I could probably order blank cds from another country and they would get here fine.

Magnifing glass illegal too

[JDizzy]

If I were to use a magnifing glass to read an authors text that was intentionally writen too small for me to see, would that be considered using the magnafing glass as a circumvention device? The answer is yes, technically it would be circumvention.

Re:link to serial cable

[GTRacer]

Are you trolling or have you never used a mem-card-based console before?

Interact's DexDrive...Interact's SharkPort...Blaze's Data XChanger thingy...Rocket's Cheat Factory...All these will allow you to exchange mem-card saves. Something you could do on any console if you have physical posession of both cards. But for the times you don't, these devices put a PC link in between and allow distant users to exchange info.

GTRacer
Copy controls suck. Territory lockouts suck.

Are You the Next Sklyarov? Answer: [CENSORED]

[Wintersmute]

This is one more illustration of why the DMCA reads as veritable "What Not to Do" Guide for statutory drafting...

To summarize the language of the DMCA - "No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any [circumvention] technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof..." 17 U.S.C. 1201(a)(2).

If the cable that Colin tried to import is prohibited under the DMCA, then Marcus Comstedt's Programming site, whose URL was posted previously, still consists of "offering to the public" the "technology." Therefore, to the extent the import is prohibited, so is disclosing how to improvise one.

And fair use? Yeah - nevermind that. Doesn't apply to circumvention technologies. Hell, even Slashdot may be on the hook for hosting this discussion because the safe harbors for ISPs don't apply in Sec. 1201.

Recall what happened when 2600 was enjoined from posting DeCSS. Following the issuance of the injunction, in true keeping with 2600 style, the site just linked to sites where you could get DeCSS. The court wasn't amused, and that was enjoined too. And while no one is foolish enough to pursue claims on these grounds (as much as the EFF might appreciate it) the mere fact that the DMCA permits such actions exemplifies why its passage was an unmitigated catastrophe.

America is _not_ the land of the free

[t_allardyce]

How the hell can you call your country the land of the free when your not even allowed to import a piece of wire. And no, don't give me any bull shit stories of IP protection. It is a bit of wire, with at the most a couple of components soldered on. Its not a nuke, a vile of anthrax or cuban cigars (Why the _hell_ are these banned in a free country???) its just metal, and plastic. Ok, maybe you could strangle someone with it - but for crists sake, you let 12 year olds by automatic weapons. ROFL serves you all right.

Re:America is _not_ the land of the free

[t_allardyce]

As far as human rights (i.e. the right to live, the right to express yourself, etc) the US is unsurpassed.

Err, sorry, no. I think if you look at the UN Human Freedom Index you will find that you are far from unsurpassed (do i bother going on about exicutions, strapping people in chairs and cooking them, poluting the planet, sticking your nose in where its not wanted, and police that randomly beat up black people and stick innocent programmers in prison?)

Horse shit!

[2Bits]

Ok, I'll bite too.

The whole four paragraphs in parent are simply horse shit. I can't believe people have been conditioned to the point of accepting whatever politicians which are bought by special interest groups have slapped to them.

Yes, research is allowed. You are free to research any of your own creations. Feel free to investigate the laws of nature. Feel free to experiment to come up with different ways to travel. Feel free to write software, create art in original ways. None of that is illegal.

Wake up, man. All researches are based upon previous knowledge and discovery. Imagine if all data structures and algorithms have been patented/copyrighted. Feel free to write software without violating someone's patent. How are you gonna do that? My wife is a Ph.D and working on early cancer detection research, based on some hereditary genes. And guess what, genes and the process of splicing/cutting/purifying/etc are all patented. The whole process of the research violates someone's patents on more than half of the steps required. Even the result analysis process is patented. Go figure.

Looks like Customs' beef is with Lik Sang.

[MsGeek]

Customs recently started checking ALL of Lik-Sang's shipments to the US (under the guise of trying to stop any NEO4s from coming in -- even though Lik-Sang immediately stopped shipping them when they were announced as being against the DMCA). They were denying coder's cables, gameboy wormlights, everything. Basically, it looks like they were too lazy to hand-check the packages and just refused almost all of them going from Lik-Sang into the US via UPS

This doesn't seem like something SEGA has anything to do with. It actually looks like all those posts about Sony might be zeroing in on the REAL problem. Lik Sang used to sell PSX and PS2 modchips. Looks Sony beefed loud and long to Customs about Lik Sang and their sales of "copyright circumvention devices" to North America.

Basically US Customs agreed with Sony and basically said "No more Lik Sang imports, period, until we bring these Chi-Com bastards to their knees!" And that's where we are right now.

From what I understand SEGA is very supportive of the developer underground now that the Dreamcast is no more. They still don't like piracy but with DC games going for $10 or less at Fry's it's not an issue anymore. Why sweat trying to burn a GDRom (which is doable on a DVD-RW drive but not on a CD-RW) when you can probably pick up that game you want on eBay for $7.99? Silly, silly, silly. Even rare games like Dead Or Alive 2, Soul Calibur and Grand Theft Auto 2 are going for less money than they initially sold for.

Again, the villain seems not to be SEGA but Sony, a company which is a signatory to both the MPAA and the RIAA. Again, look at my .SIG here. Know your enemy.

Re:Looks like Customs' beef is with Lik Sang.

[MsGeek]

By rare I mean: 1.) Out of print, 2.) In big demand, 3.) Fetching insane prices on eBay. You will have no trouble finding SC and/or DOA2 if you are willing to pay about $40 or $50 for a used copy.

BTW Virtua Fighter 3tb is a GREAT alternative to DOA2 and is easy to find at less than stratospheric (for used DC games) prices.

Re:Or maybe not a Patented Connector? Japanese ISD

[Sj0]

The DMCA isn't about patents in that way, it's about copyright. That guy can't have his serial cable because he could use it(not bloody likely) to circumvent the copyright protection on music CDs and (possibly, depending on interpetation), dreamcast disks.

That's the reason the DMCA is such a bad law. It bans anything (ANYTHING) which can be used to circumvent copy protection.

It's like banning(and making it illegal to sell or distribute, or information on how to create) butterknives because they could be plunged into a persons chest. Stupid. Immoral too.

UPDATE

[Falkkin]

I don't have time to individually respond to any of the posts here, but I'll be posting periodic updates on my web page. There are a couple up now (I have more info on why my package was stopped from HK; apparently *all* packages from lik-sang.com shipped in the last week or so have been detained...) and I'll be adding more as I get more info -- I've been rather inundated with e-mails in the last couple hours. :) Thanks to everyone here for your support; I'm hoping we can get this issue resolved soon.

Colin McMillen

eBay hates them too!

[TheLocustNMI]

I know for a fact, because i was attempting to sell my DC with the cable, and they came back with a "illegal materials" notice, so i took off a note I had about some copied games on the auction listing -- thinking that was what they were after! So, i reposted, with the cable still on it, and they canned my account! I had no idea you could copy games with it! Oh well -- so they are getting a bum rap, methinks...

Dreamcast LAN adapter.

[Thag]

Ebay, but it'll cost you around $100 US.

I bought mine during the brief period that you could order it from Sega's website for $60.

You might also check www.lik-sang.com, but good luck.

Jon Acheson

Re:The Secondary Definition of "Pragmatic"

[Gaijin42]

Pragmatically speaking, the sum of all the crap that EVERYONE who has a situation like this is going to go through, is worth the trouble of people fighting it up front.

Of course it wont happen in time for his project. But he needs to make the fight now, while he has people who can back up his position, while it is active, not something that happened in the past.

A simple workaround...

[Black Rabbit]

...at least in this case, if it hasn't already been suggested...

Why not just order the parts individually, and build the damn cable yourself? Can't be that difficult!

Geeks of the world, unite!!!

[natet]

This has been my beef all along with the DMCA. It punishes not for actual crimes, but for what might be. There is no innocent until proven guilty with the DMCA. As far as this law is concerned, we are all criminals just waiting for the chance to break loose and circumvent someones copy protection scheme. It is one major step closer to removing all fair-use under the law.

What we as the technocrats need to do is inform our less technically inclined friends and neighbors about the damage the DMCA could do them. Most people haven't a clue what it does, or even that it exists. These kinds of things will become more prevalent, and will eventually begin to affect the average joe on the street. Then there will be a public outcry, but by then it might be too late. We cannot allow large corporations to litigate for us. They will always go with their own interests, which are generally directly at odds with the interests of consumers.

sony, sega, whatever :-)

[Dr. Awktagon]

...blah blah blah...blah blah blah..

Re:One problem

[mccalli]

How do you think customs works? "I think this stuff is cocaine, but I don't have a search warrant so I can't test it, you know 4th ammendment and all...

Different circumstance. In this case, there was no doubt about the goods - a serial cable for connecting to a Sega Dreamcast. No tests required. This cable has an entirely legal, innocent, and clearly stated use.

Cheers,
Ian

(PS: I don't know what your Fourth Amendment is, I'm in the UK).

Thank you DMCA!

[hengist]

(begin irony)
As a New Zealander, I now officially love the DMCA! For years we New Zealanders have tried to compete with the USA's technical dominance. Now, we don't have to worry! The USA is destroying it's own technical dominance, and we don't have to do a thing to make it happen! Woohoo!
(end irony)

This law courtesy of the US Congress®, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Disney® Corporation.

Re:One problem

[mccalli]

Well then, where do you get off saying "With the guiding principle of law being innocent until proven guilty, they must do no such thing." as if there were only one kind of law to contend with?

Because the American legal system was based on the British one, which in turn was based on Habeas Corpus, literally "you should have the body". This requires a high standard of proof and innocent until proven guilty.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Publish the pinouts! :)

[ConsumedByTV]

I think thats the point of all this. The time is here when peoples shipments have been marked as a target by those resources. The DMCA makes yet another group of citizens into felons, every citizen a criminal, all speech dissident.

Re:Publish the pinouts! :)

[crucini]

Yes, but if the cable has been declared illegal, then building your own cable from pinouts would be circumventing the "protection", and that is itself a violation of the DMCA.

Actually, the DMCA prohibits traficking in circumvention devices. So you are (for now) free to make cables for yourself, but you are forbidden from giving or selling either the cable or the info needed to make it.

Re:How silly

[Cryptnotic]

You obviously didnt see that Simpson's episode where Homer gets a handgun and uses it for all kinds of things around the house... opening beer bottles, turning off lights, making holes in walls, etc.

Cryptnotic

Re:Outrageous!

[DarkZero]

Hey, if you don't like it, why don't you go out, get a license to protest, make sure you aren't annoying anyone, make sure you're not on private property, make sure you don't have any kind of passive defense items on you (gas masks, bandanas), and fucking protest about it?! I'm so sick of these lazy assholes that think that America is so horrible, but will never get off their ass to invoke their right to politely ask the government if they can protest about it. As long as they don't mind, of course.

::snicker::

No, its near the bottom

[DABANSHEE]

Australia, Austria & Argentine Would be at the top. Afterall the list is alphabetical.

Re:No, its near the bottom

[UncleFluffy]

" Both "America" and "Alabama" would come before "Argentina" in an alphabetical list."

America is a continent (or 2)
Alabama is a state
Argentina is a country

update: Sega Responds (poorly)

[Night Eagle]

I lobbied a friend in Sega's Marketing/PR arena to 'do the right thing' and have Sega declare this a non-piracy issue.

No dice. Sega is a big Media company like all the others and is, sadly, towing the party line. Here's their official repsonse:

"The Dreamcast Coder Cable is not a Sega licensed product. It is an unauthorized, black-market peripheral for Sega Dreamcast hardware and we do not condone its use or sale. Sega gives our full and complete support to U.S. customs in their efforts to stop piracy under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Sega stands by our position that piracy is a serious crime and must be stopped. Sega supports a creative team of developers and we aim to protect their intellectual and creative properties in order to deliver the best possible gaming experience to our consumers."

Just for fun, substitute "terrorism" or 'drug use" for "piracy" and the above statement makes equally good propaganda.

I guess Sega doesn't consider BSD developers to be "creative". Sorry guys.

Re:Probable cause?

[mpe]

I thought you guys had a constitutional safeguard against this sort of behaviour?

A written constitution is only as good as the people prepared to back it up. Without that we are simply talking "ink on paper".
Problem with the US is that too many of the populace have been trusting government for too long. Even where people should know better...

Re:How does UPS know that this is contraban?

[mpe]

If this is how they do it, the DMCA would be a HUGE boon for forign manufacturers. Most forign companies are primarily going to be interested in the USA markets.

Except that the intention is to force the same laws on most of the rest of the planet in the name of "copyright harmonisation"/"globalisation"/whatever...

Re:Or maybe not a Patented Connector? Japanese ISD

[Sj0]

looks like you've got the right idea.

Et tu, SEGA?

[MsGeek]

Wow, I feel like a total mark now. So SEGA was really behind this all? Crap.

"The Dreamcast Coder Cable is not a Sega licensed product. It is an unauthorized, black-market peripheral for Sega Dreamcast hardware and we do not condone its use or sale. Sega gives our full and complete support to U.S. customs in their efforts to stop piracy under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Sega stands by our position that piracy is a serious crime and must be stopped. Sega supports a creative team of developers and we aim to protect their intellectual and creative properties in order to deliver the best possible gaming experience to our consumers."

Yeah, right guys...what about the creative team of developers who are trying to keep your platform you strangled in its crib alive? Fsck y'all. You can take my serial cable when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

The BSD, DCLinux and KOS developers will continue regardless of your lameness. With or without your approval. You could have bucked the trend and encouraged homebrew development. Hell, that was the unofficial line at SEGA US. With this statement, you guys are just as bad as Sony and Nintendo and Microsoft and the rest of that greedy lot.

There's a great gaijin colloquialism you should know about. It goes like this: "cutting your nose to spite your face." That's precisely what you are doing here.