Slashdot Mirror
Hardware Review: Rio Receiver
Props to Robo for testing the Windows stuff for me, and CowboyNeal for testing it with the Rio Central. They wrote much of this review. I just cleaned it up and took credit for it.
The Rio Reciever doesn't bother with ripping CDs or creating MP3 files of its own, it streams them from either a Rio Central, or a Windows box with their software installed. Either method allows you to setup playlists which are then accessed from the Rio Reciever.
Hooking speakers up to the receiver is easy. It has bare wire outputs for going directly to speakers, RCA outputs for use in a stereo rack, and a plain old headphone out that's suitable for most powered PC speakers. That's a lot of outputs, but it means that it's easy to use in a variety of situations, which is exactly what you want out of a device like this.
The reciever can reach its source through either an HPNA jack, or an ethernet jack. Hooking up the Rio Reciever via ethernet was fairly simple, provided a compatible server is already on the same subnet. The receiver finds an available IP address- although it seemed to ignore our DHCP server and actually took our routers IP once! This isn't a fatal flaw, but you may wanna double check when you set this thing up to make sure you don't get any surprises.
The interface on the front of the box takes a little getting used to. Menu items are selected from menus by a large dial, and confirmed by pushing the dial. (which also functions as a large button) While compact, I found that all too often I'd accidentally push the dial in while trying to turn it. Eventually I had to give up and stick with the remote control which didn't have that problem.
Unfortunately, while the interface isn't bad, it's not great either. Given the sheer number of MP3s available to play, navigating through a huge list with just a dial isn't fun. If you've put the time into make playlists using either the Windows software or the Rio Central, then this is much easier. Of course you can search search on artist, album, genre, etc., but it gets more and more difficult as your MP3 collection gets larger.
The screen on the receiver leaves a lot to be desired. Unless it's at eye level at a distance of six feet or less, don't bother trying to read it. Luckily once the player is rolling, there's little reason to bother looking at it. When first installing, I got a neck ache from trying to read it while it sat on my desk, but once up and running, I became oblivious to it.
The Win98 software is very bare bones, but does what it's supposed to: import music. After installing the software and turning on the receiver, I was able to import both MP3 and WMA files.
The functionality of the Rio Receiver does not change between the Rio Central and a Win98 Machine, so for those who already own a windows PC, they can possibly save themselves the $1500 cost of a Rio Central. The Rio Receiver is priced around $170, and a couple discount places have already had them priced around $100, making it very feasible for the home audio enthusiast who has a large music collection on his computer to pop these small boxes around your home or office, letting you share your music wherever you want it.
The SliMP3 is less polished, but is fed with a simple perl program that streams audio. The Audiotron is fed with any Samba compatible server. In other words, either device can work with a Linux box. The Rio currently can't, but it is the only one that doesn't require an external amp to hook it up to speakers, making it the best choice for simple multizone applications. And it's priced a hundred bucks less!
All in all, this is a pretty neat device. I wish it had more ways to stream MP3s to it, since buying the costly Rio Central or converting my MP3 server to Windows aren't things I'd consider at this point, but for a lot of users I imagine the Windows software will be enough. Unlike many MP3 units, this one is priced reasonably. The variety of input and output options mean this thing can work for people who just want to get their MP3s into a stereo component, as well as for people wanting to create a nice multizone audio system in their house without needing a second mortgage.
SonicBlue is made out of people!
Reminds me of those things that are being sold as an email, file, firewall, server in a box. When actually all it is, is a computer with locked down limited use. Why would I need to hook up another device that requires my PC to work to begin with?
The Jreceiver project takes care of the first two and this Perl server also fits the bill.
here
Archos sells a 6 GB portable MP3 recorder.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
This will be modded Offtopic/Flamebait/Troll, but I'm just irked enough to post it anyway.
Reviews are most helpful when they draw some kind of consistent conclusion; One sentence says "The interface isn't bad" but is followed by a whole paragraph about what a pain the interface is to use. So, which is it?
Most of the article is more critical than complimentary, and yet the conclusion is "All in all, this is a pretty neat device." Feh.
I'm glad I'm not paying to read posts like this ad-free.
Already here.
www.archos.com
-- "Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?"
D-Link now has an Ethernet to 802.11 bridge. I plan to get one and drop it behind my home theater to get Ethernet to my Xbox, TiVo, and some MP3 streaming hardware. I'd rather not run CAT5 there for just these low bandwidth devices.
The SliMP3 is less polished, but is fed with a simple perl program that streams audio. The Audiotron is fed with any Samba compatible server. In other words, either device can work with a Linux box. The Rio currently can't
Okay, this is probably the 10th time there's been a story about the Rio Receiver, and in each and every one someone like me stands up to shout:
There are open-source Linux servers for the Rio Receiver!!!
Check out a simple perl/apache one by Jeff Mock at www.mock.com/receiver,
a more complex server that's built on java, jetty, struts, and the like at http://sourceforge.net/projects/jreceiver/. And be sure to check out the Rio discussion forum at http://rioreceiver.comms.net.
Sonic Blue engineers frequent that message board, and there's lots of open-source hacking going on, including line-out kernel hacks, integrated web and vnc servers, and the like.
What would be really great would be if someone actually tested all the various computer to stereo devices that are now hitting the market and made some sense of their differences, both in terms of features and in terms of quality.
e ach.com/site/products /audiotron/)
There's, by my count:
Rio Central & Rio Receiver (www.sonicblue.com)
Audiotron(http://www.turtleb
Lansonic Digital Audio Server (www.lansonic.com)
Request Audio Requester (www.request.com)
SliMP3 (www.slimdevices.com)
Stereo-Link (www.stereo-link.com)
Yamaha CAVIT (http://www.yamaha.com/yec/cavit/)
No one has mentioned Request, Lansonic or Yamaha products, to my knowledge. Nor has anyone compared the sound quality output to that of, say, the SoundBlaster Audigy.
This is clearly a burgeoning category, but I for one could use some help separating the winners from the losers.
It seems to me the the major price addition on these receivers is the processor. Why not do something like Sony's PCLink for their MD's (except this would use something with longer distance than USB) and feed audio, rather than MP3 data straight from the computer? That way, there is no interference with normal audio on the PC, yet the stream is processed to audio by your already purchased general purpose PC processor. It also allows for a bit more flexibility in file format support. I can't imagine these limited use processors/memory units have a lot of room for additional codec code.
I imagine some sort of cheap PCI card broadcasting wirelessly to the "receiver". Plus, it would look better than stringing CAT-5 all over the house, since a lot of PC's are no where near the nice stereo equipment.
*everything* is Orwellian to cats.
Disney CEO Michael Eisner will appear before congress to argue that hpna/ethernet technology is only used for the illegal copy and distribution of copyrighted material and that the use of hpna/ethernet should be banned or heavily regulated. Eisner is also reportedly not happy with people humming the theme songs from Disney movies in public, but is not expected to propose any limitations on vocal cords at his appearance before congress.
"Good things don't end with eum, they end with mania or teria." - H. Simpson
I've been happy with my Rio Receiver for the most part, but the screen problem is a real drag, as it renders advanced remote functions practically useless at a distance. Also, on Win2K, trying to import large playlists has a tendency to crash the Rio application.
But it's an easier sale now that the price point has started to drop a bit. When it was up near $300 it was harder to swallow.
You can run reasonable quality audio over about 30-50m of CAT5 and then solder phone jacks on the end and plug it into your stereo, or buy a cheap amplifier and be done with it.
So what is the advantage of this box? Doesn't appear to have Remote control, and anyway, you could use remote control for your PC as it is.
Great if you have the money, but my PC with DVD sends audio and video over about 20m of CAT5 and the Audio and Video quality are just fine thank you very much (using Composite signal from TV out card).
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
I've noticed that as we get cooler and more portable technology, sound quality seems to be on the decline.
MP3 sucks. Well maybe it doesn't suck, but it's a damned sight worse than CD audio, and let's not forget that CDs just barely encompass the resolution and frequency response that we can discern. There's bloody little headroom to muck about with on a CD without affecting the sound. Lossy compression (i.e. MP3 format) definitely qualifies, and definitely affects the sound.
This is fine for portable systems, computer speakers, and so forth; However, I'm getting worried that MP3 and other similar formats will become dominant in the marketplace. We may see before long a world where it's pointless to get really excellent audio equipment, because the playback quality is severely limited by the format.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
(24311)Selected WMA tracks aren't being added to the Receiver.
WMA files can have built in file protection. This allows distributors to add features such as expiration dates to the downloaded files. If one or more WMA tracks are not added correctly when you Import Music, this is most likely caused by a limitation of the file. Try playing the files in question on the server, with any normal WMA music player. If the track will not play on the server computer. Contact the distributor for more information on playing these files. If you have playback permissions or are using an unprotected WMA file, you should not experience this issue.
Interesting that they have to explain this to their users. Here DRM acting "normally" is perceived as a problem by users and techsupport. After users experience this once, will they switch from MP3 to WMA? I don't think so.
sulli
RTFJ.
Another alternative for MP3's that I don't see mentioned often:
Ramsey Electronics has an FM transmitter which plugs in nicely to your computer. Then, any radio around the house can pick up your MP3s, including the main radio, and the headphone radio you have when you mow the lawn.
The only catch is that this transmitter is sold as a kit of parts, and you must solder the thing together. This makes it a "homebrew" radio which is legal to transmit onto the FM band. It works great around the house.
I don't get it. Why don't people who manufacture these devices document the protocol and put it up on the web? They'd have Linux and MacOS support within days.
It runs Linux, and the source code to the modified kernel comes on the CD in the box.
I have one of these mounted on the wall in my garage, with ethernet run out there and in-wall speakers. I'd definitely not want a computer and monitor out in my garage. This is perfect. The inboard amplifier is great, too!
Definitely doesn't belong in a stero rack, though.. That's where the Audiotron is. Looks like a stereo component, and has optical audio out.
And, the comment about how it requires a computer? Oh, I'm venturin' to guess that everyone on this site has a computer laying around. Comon.
My Rio Receiver works great, and I've never run the Windows software. The Rio Receiver is one of the best values around for remote networked MP3 players. At its core, the Rio Receiver (aka Sonic Blue) is an ARM7 processor running Linux.
With a little work, you can get it to boot from a Linux server and mount its filesystem over NFS. (This is what the Windows software does, more or less.) The entire filesystem is in the "receiver.arf" tar file that comes with the software.
The most well-known Rio server hack for Linux was put together by Jeff Mock and available from his webpage. If you're reasonably familiar with setting up remote-booting machines, the Rio should not be much of a challenge. Jeff wrote a small perl daemon to handle the unique boot sequence for the Rio, and a larger set of scripts to serve up the MP3 files.
After using Jeff's fine server for a while, I found I wanted something with better MP3 management and playlist support. That's when I found the JReceiver Project. This software rocks! It's a royal PITA to set up if you're not a Java programmer, but it does quite a bit. It's a full SQL front-end for your MP3 content, so playlists can be dynamic from SQL expressions ("I want all new ROCK songs added in the last 14 DAYS that are not by CREED"). And of course, it serves the Rio directly. It will also handle the booting if you want to boot Rio from the same Linux machine that runs JReceiver.
Last, Frank van Gestel put together a terrific modification to the Rio Receiver filesystem that adds a local http server to the receiver box itself. This serves up the exact front-panel display to a web browser, and you can operate all the controls remotely over the network. Now you can get a clear view of the Receiver screen without being right in front of it. Further, it will let you control the line-level volume output as well as the speaker output (a shortcoming of the original kernel). You can get the patch files in this thread
Lots of intelligent discussion on the Rio boxes at rioreceiver.comms.net
All in all, this is the best networked MP3 player going for under $100. Audiotron is nice, but this is cheaper and far more hackable. Runs Linux, boots from Linux, built-in ethernet, and has no fan or hard drive.
The only disappointment is that it has no digital audio (SPDIF) output. No coax, no optical.. line level only. Ah well, MP3's aren't exactly hifi anyway.
Enjoy!
Find someone who uses OGG and they'll make it.
Actually, I believe there's a problem that OGG requires floating-point operations, and the system the receiver's built on only has integer stuff available.
So, find someone who can write a fast FP OGG decoder and they'll make it might be more accurate.
Plus, the jreceiver project's been experimenting with live streaming and transcoding, so you could maybe transcode an ogg file to very high bitrate mp3 at the server. Not for purists, I suppose, but would keep you from having to re-rip your library.
Look man, OGG is a great, but it came 4-5 years too late.
Beta was superior to VHS for videotaping. Guess what? Most people these days have never heard of Beta.
MP3's have mindshare and name recognition. MP3=Pirated_Music to the general public. This will remain so, in spite of the existance of WMV and OGG.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
The Rio Receiver plays OGG files just fine, if you use JReceiver. JReceiver has some "transcoders" to handle non-native audio formats like OGG, so it converts your OGG files to MP3 on the fly while streaming them to the Rio Reciever.
If you don't like that, you can always hack the Rio Receiver software yourself to add an OGG player. The whole mounted filesystem is there for you to play with. You can replace the whole player with Ogg Vorbis if you like.
Hey, how about internet radio? when will the first linux hack come out and hopefully with internet radio and mp3 recording....
Next question ... can it stream uncompressed audio. I have a large collection of lossless .shn files. Can this unit receive an uncompressed stream, or is it restricted to receiving MP3s and WMAs?
.shns, but what I'm really interested in is whether the player can accept an uncompressed stream. It would be pointless to take my nice, lossless files, and convert them to lossy .mp3 format just to listen to them.
Presumably I'd have to do some hacking to jreceiver or the like in order to decode the
On this page on the Rio Receiver, it says it is "Upgradeable to support future audio formats". Has anyone made one of these work with an Ogg Vorbis codec?
At $170 bucks I think it's overpriced. Pick up a virgin webplayer or other hackable "network appliance" from a failed startup for $30 and staple an old hard drive to it and you have a much more versatile system for a lot less money.
this is getting old and so are you
blog
This sounds like the perfect thing to use to listen to your streamsicle server, check out the link in the sig.
The funny part is that most entry level processor / media solutions these days have enough power to do more than just a couple tasks. The problem is that vendors *want* to offer a tiered product line for the sake of maximizing revenue/income.
Take a look at VIA's new mini-ITX reference board. It is only 170mm square and they claim fanless operation with minimal power consumption. Target price is under $100 including processor. If a talented *someone* could sit down with linux and design a quality open solution for Mp3 devices, then it wouldn't be long before others add TV time-shifting, DVD, HDTV and possibly even gaming (in the future, near 3D will be plenty cheap), then consumers would have an option other than the standard-issue MS product that will eventually fill the market. You think that Sony can afford to put millions into playstation developement when all that MS has to do is reach into the PC parts bin? Playstation will be dead or X86-based real soon. The economies of scale just don't favor non-x86 anymore.
My prediction:
The various/uncollaborated open source projects will sit in alpha and beta stages while Microsoft toils away at a mediocre standard that works at the consumer's expense of an increased stranglehold. They've already started. Soon, they will expand their technologies to the automobile and soon everyone will have a car capable of communicating wirelessly with their Windows household. Your car's GPS will track every aspect of its life. Was/is little Billy speeding? What was my fuel mileage on the vacation last summer? How did it compare with this summer's vacation? Ah - the car is due for an oil change. I'll just find a local provider via the provided MS software and the map will be uploaded into the car's navigation system. Microsoft gets a small percentage of the oil change cost, of course. What about road hazzards? The ABS & GPS systems in the car could warn others of potentially slippery roads. Airbag go off? Warn others and call for an ambulance. Linux *could* do this but it won't because MS will establish themselves before it happens. Enough about the cars...
My point is that while the linux community toils away at various different projects, they haven't a single focused effort in the new areas that will allow MS to continue their world domination. Back to the MP3 player:
So what's the deal? Why can't some talented (not me or I would have done it) entity come up with a stripped down, lightweight, open version of Linux for the purpose of having an open-standard for consumers? Sure - their isn't much money in it but it *has to* happen if MS is to be toppled. It would seem like VIA would put some money into LinuxBIOS for their new mini-ITX form factor - they could sell processors for financial gain and subsidize this development. Soon, people would be piecing together their own DVD/MP3/DivX media players - and VIA would have a piece of the action. The pieces are all there but nobody ever bothers to try and put them together...
Sigh...
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
- Very simple on-board software; no codedcs required
- Automatically future-proof: if your computer can decode and transmit it, you'll hear it
- Fairly low hardware requirements, no signal processing
- Simple interface; a volume knob might be all you need.
It seems to me such a device could be useful... Oh, and about the bandwidth: a full CD-quality stream is, as everyone knows, roughly 170 KB/s, or 1.6 Mbps. On a 10 Mbps net, that's rather heavy, but on a 100 Mbps LAN, I wouldn't care much. I mean, it's only for internal LAN use, afterall. So, am I nuts, or would such a box (which I imagine could be produced in the $50-$60 range) be good for anything? Is it already out there, and I've just missed it?main(O){10<putchar(4^--O?77-(15&5128 >>4*O):10)&&main(2+O);}
Actually, you don't need extra hardware at all, you can use your monitor as an AM transmitter:
Tempest for Eliza
Ok, the sound quality is lousy, but...
Speaking of which, where can they be had for $100? I see $142 at Amazon (out of stock), and about $150-170 most other places.
Why bother spending $170 on this thing when $35 provides an FM transmitter? Talk about leveraging the wireless world! It has the added bonus playing other things too, such as internet radio. I already use one to listen to the BBC World Service in other rooms of my house. If I want an MP3 music mix for a party, I can create it on the computer and let it go.
Seems to me this otherwise great product is somewhat tarnished, for me at least, by the fact that it isn't wireless capable. I mean, if I put this bad boy in my living room, that means I'd have to run an ethernet cable across my living room, through my kitchen, down a hallway, and into my room. Also, since I'm already jacked into the net via ethernet on my main Linux machine, which holds my mp3's, does this mean I have to get a second NIC card to plug the Receiver into?
I posted to
The receiver finds an available IP address- although it seemed to ignore our DHCP server and actually took our routers IP once! This isn't a fatal flaw..., but you may wanna double check when you set this thing up to make sure you don't get any surprises.
Translation: The Rio DHCP client is broken.
The interface on the front of the box takes a little getting used to.
Translation: The Rio user interface sucks.
The screen on the receiver leaves a lot to be desired.
Translation: The screen on the Rio sucks.
The Win98 software is very bare bones
Translation: The Rio software sucks.
Thank you.
"And like that
you've been aboe to buy mp3 recorders for years now. Most all radio stations have nice hardware stream generators (recorder basically)
The problem with a regular "recorder" per-se is that you can build one that is better, faster and cheaper with a PC and a turtle-beach santa-cruz soundcard than anything they could build for you in a nice looks-like-my-cdplayer package.
basically, buy a black desktop pc, put a burner in it, a IR keyboard/mouse, video out card and have your recorder.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
What if someone in another room wants to listen to something other than what's being broadcast from the server?
There was a comment similar to this one yesterday. I think you are missing one of the advantages of a setup like this - each receiver can play its own audio stream. If you don't want to do that, then an FM transmitter is fine. But if you want to listen to different things in different areas simultanously, then it doesn't help.
The audiotron is by far better. Bigger display, audio component sized, and no additional software needed to make it work. Built in web browser configuration. The audiotron also streams audio off the web.
My only gripe with either of these boxes is that they don't have TV output. TV output seems like it would be easy to do and it would add minimal cost to the unit ($50).
The audiotron occasionally hangs when it encounters really long filenames or corrupt files, but in the year i've owened it i've only seen it happen twice.
-ted
Why spend all that time setting up HomePNA unless you already have it for something else? And even if you do have it, you're still limited by the device's need to be close to a phone jack.
Much more practical, I'd think, to get an FM transmitter installed in your PC, or even just attach one to your speaker jack. Noticably cheaper, than a Rio Receiver either way. This way you can pick up your MP3 collection from any FM radio in the house, even untethered battery-powered ones.
Tigerdirect (whom aren't exactly known for great Customer Service - hell, they're reputation sucks) has had them for $100 for a few months now.
They already exist, for one thing. The problem I have with recording audio to MP3 or MiniDisc is that you start off with a lossy compressed format. Solid state recording is finally starting to come into fruition, with companies like Nagra (and even the new Nomad) offering harddisk-based portable units. I'd personally rather have the option of recording to PCM/WAV (at either 16 or 24 bit) and doing any compression (probably SHN) on the "master" copy later on. Storage is so cheap now that there's no reason not to at least record in uncompressed format.
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
I've had to have one of tjhose damned sonic motion sensors disabled in one office already. It was disabled by the tech using a sharp pointed pencil jammed into the snout of the device. When I asked him if that was a "standard" fix he replied that yes, it was! Apparently I'm not the only one who's heard the damned things and while the tech couldn't hear them himself he assured me that this fix has ALWAYS worked :-)
:-P
Out of an office of about 30 people only two of us could hear the silly thing. It gave me massive headaches until we could figure out what the heck was going on. So yeah, there could be something in the higher or maybe lower ranges of a recording that some of us might find valuable.
Hrm, and when I burn a decently ripped MP3 to a CD, as in one I'VE ripped, it generally comes out pretty good. Others have come out crappy I'll admit but the ones I've taken care to do mostly right sound decent with no really apparent screwups. We'll see hwo this goes when I get my alpine MP3 player installed in the dash and I no longer have to convert the MP3 back to CD format...
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
Eh? A socket is a socket, last time I looked.
In any case, this device is hardly obsolete. It has ethernet, it has an amplifier, and I can serve it from Linux. What more is there to talk about? I don't care if the manufacturer hasn't done anything new with the software, I intend to do a lot of stuff with the software.
Besides, the protocol's already documented. It's not like this stuff is rocket science to figure out.
Please check out my review on this product late last year, as featured on Slashdot last November.
...because thats exactly what I do. I have a 'media server' that basically acts as: a DVD/Divx;) player, MP3 server/streamer (for playing the same thing in multiple places in my apartment. I don't need a seperte device for that ), MAME console, and cool distracion. I use the computer to watch tv (via a TV-out vid card) and use a wireless keyboard as a glorified remote control.
To avoid ugly cat5, I have a DWL-650 wireless card/bridge setup in it and connect it to a Linksys WAP. Its not a bad idea for an old AMD K6III-450.
Actually yes. It's the Rio Receiver. I've set mine up to do this in the space of an hour before. It NFS boots (once you handle the UPnP/SSDP protocols) and all you have to do is get it to automatically run netcat or something and pipe it to /dev/dsp.
It's small, there's no fan in it, it's got ethernet, and it has a good quality built-in 10 watt amplifier. No digital output unfortunately.
Since I have several Macs at home running iTunes, and also an iPod, I'm probably not switching to windows or linux to serve mp3s to the stereo .. BUT it would be nice to serve them over ethernet to a SliMP3. Can I do this with Mac (OS9 preferable, OSX okay)?
We've always supported OSX - it's got real Unix+Perl underneath, so it runs great.
OS9 is another story. We supported OS9 in V1.0 of our software, but after that we decided to drop support because all the bugs/limitations in the ancient MacPerl. Just a couple days ago, they finally released a MacPerl 5.6.1, so there's a good chance we'll be able to get it running on Classic MacOS, too.
Stupid slashdot keeps inserting a space in my link. Here you go:
More info...
Live web cams