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Sizing Up StarOffice 6.0
The installation was dead simple, and therefore better than most software: I popped in the CD, and with about 10 minutes of point-click-whirrring, the software was installed. The only notable aspect of this process is that the CD included (and popped onto my hard drive, with prompting) a new Java runtime environment (Sun's standard JRE, version 1.3.1). The helpful timer that accompanies the install is conservative, which is nice -- it started out estimating 14 minutes for the "transferring files" portion, but quickly dropped down to less than five.
Having not touched StarOffice for a while, it's nice to see the features in OpenOffice trickle in -- most importantly, getting rid of the monolithic desktop makes it actually usable to those of us who hate screen-hijacking software. And at least on this 1 GHz, 256MB laptop, even "bloatware" features like auto-correction are snappy enough not to be bothersome.
Two small notes on Roblimo's review for anyone curious about using SO under Windows: The Windows version does claim to open "WordPerfect (Win) 6.0-7.0" documents, which is at least a start toward WordPerfect compatibility. And under Windows, the nice X-Window style one-click text transfer isn't an option. One more note for 6.0 Beta testers: you can download a patch from Sun to extend the life of the beta from March 31 to June 3 2002.
I never had any problems at all with 6.0 beta... In fact, I'm still using it! Not a single crash, and much better than 5.2
Just because I AM paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get me.
"The much anticipated StarOffice 6.0 for Linux is now available for download to Mandrake Linux Club Members. We are proud to announce that Club members will be among the first Linux users to have the privilege of using the newest version of this premiere Linux Office Sui
te. Since StarOffice 6.0 has a new licensing model (it is no longer free as were previous versions), MandrakeSoft is currently offering the download service to MandrakeClub "Silver" members (and above). To provide Mandrake Club members the opportunity to reach Silver status, MandrakeSoft has set up a simple upgrade procedure.
StarOffice 6.0 is comprised of five distinct components:
StarOffice Writer is a professional wordprocessor; StarOffice Calc is a spreadsheet application; StarOffice Impress is a multimedia presentation tool; StarOffice Draw is a 3D graphics and special effects designer; StarOffice Adabas is a user-friendly database.
The new features include a new XML-based document format that results in dramatically reduced filesizes (compared to StarOffice 5.2), improved file filters and support for OLE objects that provides excellent compatibility with Microsoft Office documents, new font rendering, an improved user interface that makes StarOffice 6.0 more intuitive and friendly than ever, better system integration with other applications that allows, for instance, the ability to send office documents with an email client directly from StarOffice, and more!
StarOffice 6.0 is supported under the following Mandrake Linux versions (x86 only): Mandrake Linux 8.0, Mandrake Linux 8.1 and Mandrake Linux 8.2."
There should be a story on Slashdot soon since it mentions the recent controversy about the Mandrake Club Silver membership...
I've been running OO 641C since it was released. My machine is a PII-266 with 224 MB of RAM, so it tends to lag at times. However, SO 5.2 was never usable on this box. OO has replaced 5.1a.
.doc. I don't know if this is a good thing, a bad thing, and whether it's a reflection on the OO programmers or MS and its moving-target document formats.
.docs in case things look screwy, but I hear fewer complaints than in the past.
I'll add my voice to those cheering the death of the SO 'desktop'. What a worthless feature, a waste of everyone's time. Now I get right to the good stuff... after about 20 seconds of startup.
MS document compatibility seems much improved. Strangely, I recently had more trouble with Word users opening a 95-formatted file as opposed to a 2000/XP-formatted
Font detection seems *greatly* improved under X. OO appears to use X's own fonts as well as its internal fonts, meaning no more headaches and hacks to install TrueType fonts under SO. Printing hasn't been a problem at all, although North American users (guilty) may want to make sure the page size is set to "Letter" before printing; A4 seems to be the default.
Spell-checking is a bit loosy-goosy in detecting misspelled words, as it will sometimes stop at words with double quotes on one side or the other, but it works.
I still tend to warn people when I send them
I'm eagerly awaiting the next release of OO. I'm not sure if I'll buy Sun's StarOffice 6.0, since I'm not sure the value-add will be there, but I'm satisfied with the program the OO team has produced.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
This is an anecdote about installing it. There was no mention of how it handles Office200/XP document importing and exporting. There was no mention on how stable it was. There was no mention of how well it integrates with the KDE or Gnome desktops, cut and paste, drag and drop. There was no mention on how it's usability has evolved.
There are MUCH bigger issues with Start Office than does it install quickly or does it hog the screen. How about, can it gracefully replace MS Office for a MS Office user and if not why not?
The big three apps are Outlook, IE, and Office. We have Evolution, Mozilla and ???? A contender for the missing piece of the desktop puzzle deserves a better review than this.
So, for the time being, I'm using MSWord2k in VMware. If SO/OO can reproduce most of the functionality I need (which, for the most part, it does... I was using SO6b happily until I discovered articles going to print with typos because Word's spellchecker ignored them) then I'll happily switch.
For me, the only substantial difference between SO6 and OO641C (last time I checked) was fonts... SO6 came bundled with a few extra fonts that made it easier to interact with MSWord users. If that's the only major difference, I'm happy to use OO and rip my own fonts...
"Anything is better than IE, and you can quote me on that." -- Wil Wheaton.
In a stunning upset, a Linux user that never uses MS Office thinks that OpenOffice is perfectly adequate.
That never happens. Certainly not on Slashdot.
Gimme some reviews from people whose opinions actually matter and you'll start changing mindshare. Articles like this are just preaching to the choir.
(And if you're going to compare StarOffice and OpenOffice, at least a rudimentary review of the additional features that come with StarOffice would be beneficial. Like, instead of just mentioning the database features are there, how about saying if they're any good?)
That is the Java Runtime environment, genius. It installs the JVM that allows you to run Java programs, not the development tools.
Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
I use OpenOffice 641c seamlessly with coworkers who use MSOffice. No problems so far, to the point where I don't even think twice about importing or exporting. The powerpoint thingie (whatever it's called) works well enough that I routinely send presentations to MSOffice hostages without any difficulties.
A) GIMP is not supposed to be a drop-in replacement for Photoshop, although it can do some stuff Photoshop can do without taking up huge amounts of memory.
B) StarOffice is not supposed to be 100% compatible. The actual shift which needs to take place is towards an open document format which everybody supports. RTF bloats a little bit too much to fit in there, there are loads of others, but anyway, progress is being made. If only I could make corporate policy force RTF or something, anything instead of MS .doc format (which changes with every bloody office release anyway).
I too am gutted that StarOffice 6 will be a pay-for app, but Sun have to justify development costs sooner or later. At the end of the day, most companies do not object to paying for Office software, and it has to be good. You don't get rid of Microsoft forced Office dominance overnight. Most of my clients think Office comes with Windows, and are shocked to find out they don't have Word when they boot a brand new machine. Wankers.
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
Cost to Join Mandrake Club at Silver Level to download StarOffice 6: $120.00
Cost to upgrade initial membership to Silver Level to get StarOffice 6: $60.00
Cost of a copy of StarOffice 6, Deluxe Version with documentation from local retailer: $40.00
And I should join or upgrade my membership why?
The only tool you've got against psychosis is experience.
Is this sarcasm, or is Roblimo actually implying that Smart Tags are a good thing??
In a comparison between MS Office, this should be a huge +5 for Sun. Smart tags are idiotic and intrusive, and should not be supported in Open/Star Office ever!
Because you want to support Mandrake? If it was all about StarOffice, it would be called "Buy StarOffice from the Mandrake store" not "Join Mandrake Club"
sic transit gloria mundi
"anything instead of MS .doc format (which changes with every bloody office release anyway). "
.doc format has now gone through three releases(97, 2000, XP) without any substantial format changes. Yes, the newer versions do support new features, but the format itself is backwards compatible such that I can create a document in XP and load it in Word 97.
Actually the
It depends on what you are looking for, if you just want to be able to read a document... no problem... the substance is there. If you want to colloborate on the creation, well then you have to limit yourself on features and not worry too much about complex layout, etc.
As far as RTF... That is a Microsoft standard, but a good one for interoperability because it's reasonably well documented. I don't understand your comment about bloat. Do you want support for word processing, or are you just looking for a fancy text file?
As solid of a product as Office XP has turned out to be, Sun has an uphill battle with regards to StarOffice. I also think XP will probably be the last release of Office that Microsoft is able to sell because it has hit maturity and does just about anything and everything one could want.
I have been using SO for about a year now. I've been running the 6.0 beta since it became available on my SUSE box and on my NT box.
I do a lot of volunteer work and whenever it comes time to shoot documents to different folks- some have office, some have works, some don't know.
I'd tell people - "Get Star Office. It is a free office suite from Sun Microsystems."
95% of them wouldn't even consider it. I think they were afraid of something free.
If I can tell them "Yeah- you can go buy it for a 10th of what you would pay for office" I think they will be more apt to go for it.
As a side note. I've never been able to get ADABAS to work on my NT box. And my attempts have just been out of curiousity as just reading the docs tells me that it cannot come even remotely come close to Access.
I cannot tell you how many small companies I work with that use Access. I work with a collection agency that has up to 100 people working of a single access database.
The price of Access looks small when you compare it to a real database. I'm not advocating this- but it is reality.
.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
It depends what you are doing. If you are a Word power-user and use it for medium-duty page layout, expect lots of problems. For example, documents containing a lot of graphics in floating frames with text flowing around in my experience do not convert well. On the other hand, I've had no problems at all with letter- and report-type documents.
"Linux is not totally mainstream yet, because:
A) No adobe photoshop yet. GIMP is inferior, don't even try..
B) StarOffice is very slow, and not 100% compatible with MSOffice. Microsoft word is still the preferred word processor and such.
"
With A.) I have to say that adobe photoshop is not a mainstream app. Its expensive and only photo designers and a few web site designers use it. Not on pc's but mainly macs.
B) StarOffice is very slow,...
Star office 6 is alot faster and much of the bloat has been removed. I have never ran it but one of my friends has. He told me its alot better and almost 3 times as fast and is comparable to office97 and has better file compatibility. Version 5.2 on my pentiumIII700 runs ok anyway.
"and not 100% compatible with MSOffice". Well about an hour ago a just imported some old excel spreadsheets into Starcalc and I had no problems at all with the imports. Not to mention my resume which was originally written in word2000 went through fine in staroffice 5.2. I only had one document which ever exhibbited some errors.
"Microsoft word is still the preferred word processor and such" This is mostly true in regards to mindshare until microsoft began heavily doubling and even trippling the licensing costs of Office and now is also trying to monthy charge the usage of Office with its upcomming
Linux is not totally mainstream yet. Your right. That was never quite the goal of linux and it probably never will be. Linus himself admitted he would quit out of principal if it ever caught more then a third of the market.
http://saveie6.com/
The psychology of pricing is interesting. Sun may be better off going with $99 than $49. Many years ago, in Guadalajara, Mexico, my grandmother met a street artist selling paintings for a dollar or two each. My grandmother told him to include nice frames (that he could buy for less than one dollar apiece from fellow half-starved locals) and up his prices to $50 or more. He thought she was nuts, because no one he knew could afford to pay that much for a small painting. Annie (my grandmother) fronted him money for a dozen frames and helped him with the repricing, and sales soon took off -- not to locals, but to American tourists who thought $50 to $100 was a great value for an original painting of a pastoral Mexican scene enclosed in an attractive, hand-carved wooden frame. A year later the artist had his own gallery and a house with indoor plumbing -- and Annie got some of his best work for free and had a friend for life.
That's really a very beautiful story, and perhaps the best part of the article. It almost has strains of JonKatz in there, while remaining just on this side of probable. Even though it's pretty much unrelated to the review/comparison, it's a nice touch. Well done!
Yes! That guy!
"About the ZDNet controversy
A recent story at ZDNet (also picked up by Slashdot, LinuxToday, LWN and others) contained the title: "Mandrake Linux policy angers members". We'd like to briefly comment on this story.
* http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-866870.html
* http://slashdot.org/articles/02/03/23/0454208.sht
* http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-0
From reading the headline, someone might think that MandrakeSoft has indeed angered many members of the community due to a change of company policy. Unfortunately, the author wasn't able to contact anyone at MandrakeSoft for additional information (which we would have been happy to provide), so the story is based on a few select comments from the Mandrake Forum website. http://www.mandrakeforum.com/article.php?lang=en&
First of all, we would like to thank all of the Mandrake users and supporters who questioned the basis of the story. By reading the many comments and talkbacks at the above links, it is clear that a large part of the community is not upset. It makes all of us here at MandrakeSoft extremely proud that our efforts throughout the years of maintaining close ties to the community and our long-standing commitment to Free Software has not gone unnoticed.
Secondly, the original thread at MandrakeForum was prompted by a press release that was released prematurely which mentioned StarOffice 6.0 and the Mandrake Users Club. As soon as the comments "
Why is this important? My wife depends upon a grammar checking program. On average, it brings up her score on term papers by a letter grade. The only product with a grammar checker for Linux is WordPerfect. I purchased a copy of Corel Office 2000 and installed it under Mandrake 8.1, but it is extremely unstable (sometimes it silently crashes, allowing her to enter text but saving only empty files). Since Corel sold their Linux OS division, they also nuked their online Linux help for Corel Office (which seems to be a violation of their EULA, since they still own the Office for Linux division, but that's another story). The only place this help exists is in Google's cached pages. I would purchase Star Office if it had a grammar checking program.
Has anybody heard a rumor about plans for a grammar checking program in the next version of Star Office? Does anybody have any hints on making WordPerfect 9 more stable under Mandrake 8.x? Is it worth the money to upgrade to WordPerfect 10? Does anybody know of a stable word processor with a grammar checker for Linux?
Both StarOffice and OpenOffice *can* create PDFs in both Windows and Linux: I've been using this method for about eight months with no major difficulty.
In a nutshell, the applications rely on farming out the task to Ghostscript. It's not perfect -- TrueType fonts will sometimes result in uncorrectable errors (most often with apostrophes), and of course you may lack the ability to generate indexes and searchable documents, but for the most part, it's more than workable. It's been a godsend for me.
Finally, both Star/OpenOffices include (on the Linux side, anyway) instructions on how to do this yourself. Use the HTML reference above as a guide, and you should have no difficulties.
As far as I can tell using this solution is not an option for commercial services, but I am no legal expert, so use this at your own risk if this is the case.
Good luck.
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Death will come, and will have your eyes
-- Pavese
The trouble with StarOffice not being free and open source is that Sun may dump it. Sun tends to do stuff like that. I have two paid-for, boxed, commercial Sun Java development environments that are abandonware.
For many small businesses the retail price is the only price that matters, and for large businesses that are interested in StarOffice Sun would almost certainly offer substantial incentives as well. Heck, for those users that don't need database capability you could even use OpenOffice, which is free software. This would allow you to get some of your less sophisticated users off of the upgrade treadmill altogether. Multiply that out over a few upgrade cycles and the switch to StarOffice makes a lot more sense.
Not to mention the fact that StarOffice would allow you to ditch some of your clunky PC clients altogether. StarOffice would allow you to migrate from maintaining expensive PC clients to X terminals. Instead of hundreds of client PCs to administer and maintain you could have one server, and hundreds of X terminals. One commodity Intel server running Linux will happily support hundreds of users, and this sort of configuration is much less expensive to maintain. The clients are essentially disposable, and all configuration can be done on one centralized machine. The fact that Microsoft is changing the way that it charges for MS Office so that it is essentially twice as expensive in the average case makes the switch even more tempting.
Most importantly switching to StarOffice greatly reduces a company's dependence on Microsoft, in a relatively painless way. Since StarOffice is available for Windows you can continue to use your existing software, and since StarOffice is mostly compatible with MS Office you don't have to worry about starting over from scratch with your important documents. Some of your most experienced MS Office users would need training, but StarOffice's user interface is similar enough to MS Office that most users won't hardly notice the switch. Microsoft has already proven that they have no compunctions against raising their prices, and they have a history of forcing their hand on their customers. While it is certainly true that Sun might attempt something similar, the fact that OpenOffice is available under the GPL makes it much harder for Sun to abuse its StarOffice customers.
The cost of switching didn't save WordPerfect and Lotus 1-2-3, and it isn't going to save Microsoft Office either.
Ms-word can read other things besides .doc.
Have you tried .RTF?
Having good MS Office filters would be enormously important for OpenOffice and StarOffice.
Word file format is the de facto standard in most companies and institutions. Most internal and external communication and documentation is done with Word and Excel, and you need to import , edit, and then export MS Office documents. Without perfect, 100% compatible filters, you simply can't use OpenOffice in such an environment. If even one word wraps differently, a table can go useless. Not that MS Office itself is totally free of these problems, but they are much worse with OO/SO.
OpenOffice export filter to MS Word breaks very easily. Sometimes even basic formatting is lost. Some images disappear. Bullets turn into strange symbols. Tables of Contents and Indexes break. Pages with complex headers or footers simply cause Word to crash.
Even really simple things such as WMF, JPEG, or GIF export filters are faulty in sdraw. GIF doesn't seem to work at all, and WMF and JPEG lose objects under certain conditions.
The filters are OO's definitely weakest point at the moment. I hope they get the problems solved, as it's otherwise such a great software.
Actually, if Microsoft made drastic changes to their file formats at this point (like they did between Office 95 and 97) then it would likely accelerate the migration from MS Office to StarOffice. Microsoft had nearly all of its large customers up in arms over that particular fiasco, and MS Office's competitors are in a much better position now then they were in 1997. Gartner believes that StarOffice will have a 10% share by the end of 2004, and that is without Microsoft pushing their customers into Sun's camp. The harder Microsoft squeezes their customers the more tempting it is to switch.
The fact of the matter is that StarOffice poses much more of a threat to Microsoft than Linux does. Linux requires that you change everything about how you use your computer, and it competes with Windows that comes preinstalled on every computer. StarOffice only requires that you change your office suite--you can continue using all of your Windows software--and it is very compatible with MS Office. More importantly, most people actually pay for MS Office (well, actually most people "borrow" copies, but that is much more difficult with Office XP).
After years of watching Microsoft push their Windows operating system higher and higher up the enterprise food chain Sun is finally actually attacking into Microsoft territory instead of trying to merely defend their own turf. Much of the R&D money that is being used to push Windows into the enterprise comes from MS Office, and Sun's StarOffice will almost certainly put pressure on Microsoft to lower their prices so that they are more competitive.