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Geo-Encryption: Global Copyright Defense?

An Anonymous Coward writes: "CIO Insight has a story on the copyright-protection scheme devised by Georgetown professor Dorothy Denning. Geo-encryption uses GPS technology to keep information scrambled until it reaches a precise location anywhere in the world. Denning has started a new company, GeoCodex, to capitalize on the technology." I can't wait for the Crypto-Gram article about this one..

198 comments

  1. GPS Technology by hkhanna · · Score: 0

    I really think I'm missing something here...I always thought GPS was a signal sent from like 20 satellites to your position on Earth, I had no idea it could receive signals too. Can someone explain how this technology is possible?

    oh..wait, I get it..the content has a descrambler that only activates when it gets the right GPS signal...duh. Sorry...oh well, first post.

    --

    Think nothing is impossible? Try slamming a revolving door.
    1. Re:GPS Technology by Thaidog · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Well, now that's one way of not getting modded down for saying first post.

      --

      ||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.

    2. Re:GPS Technology by The+Original+Bobski · · Score: 1


      Considering GPS jitter, something the article didn't mention, nor has anyone else addressed in this discussion, just how locally geographic do they expect to get?

      It's not like someone couldn't (worst case) poke their head out of the next door cave and grab your message.

      --
      satire, n: 1) witty language used to convey insults or scorn; 2) a form of humor lost on most slashdot moderators.
  2. Sure... New company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Probably make tons of money.. Won't let me in her class because too many people already registered...

    *grumble*grumble*

  3. Dictionary attacks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This is a tired old idea. All you need to do to break this scheme is run a dictionary attack using all coordinates. Should take less than an hour on my desktop.

    1. Re:Dictionary attacks by dajalas · · Score: 1

      Suppose you made it path as well as location depenedent. It'd be a wee bit harder to break.

    2. Re:Dictionary attacks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The Earth's surface is something like 4*pi*6378000^2 = 5e14 m^2. Assuming that the device doesn't mind a 5m error (15") and assuming that you know the elevation everywhere on Earth (or that the device doesn't care about elevation), that makes 5e12 patches of size 10mx10m to try. And if you start with the most likely country and the most populated area first, then you're likely to find the spot in the first 1/1000 of the patches you try, so that gives a few billion coordinates to try. Breakable indeed.

    3. Re:Dictionary attacks by Whitehawke · · Score: 1

      From the article:


      Could a hacker be prevented from circumventing the GPS sensor and pretending to be, say, at the Pentagon instead of Kandahar? Denning struggled for days on that one, then came up with a way to make routers themselves "locationally intelligent"--in other words, the GPS-based encryption itself would change dynamically as it moved through the path from owner to user.


      So it isn't just the specific coordinates you throw at it, you also need to show the correct pathing through the routers. Just a wee bit harder, neh?

      Dave Storrs

  4. That's actually a pretty cool idea. by RealityThreek · · Score: 1

    Of course, it has the exact same problem that most copyright protection techniques have. How do you store the location in the media file in such a way that it can't be changed? And how do you prevent players from being manufactured that don't look at the location?

    If these questions aren't answered then it won't prevent even casual copying.

    --
    :wq
    1. Re:That's actually a pretty cool idea. by yatest5 · · Score: 3, Funny

      How do you store the location in the media file in such a way that it can't be changed? And how do you prevent players from being manufactured that don't look at the location?

      A better question would be 'how many things can really be encoded to be used in only on location'.

      An even better one is 'how obviously on an article should the date 1st April be printed in order to trick the greatest amount of people'?

      --
      • Mod parent up! [a] by Anonymous Coward (Score:5) Thurs, June 31, @13:37
    2. Re:That's actually a pretty cool idea. by tftp · · Score: 2
      An even better one is 'how obviously on an article should the date 1st April be printed in order to trick the greatest amount of people'?

      Regardless of AFD, most replies so far talk about technical merits of the proposed scheme, and indeed there are some. For example, there are *very many* unique coordinates on Earth, this makes the key quite long. On the other hand, the key is not very random (because most people live on land, and majority of those live in cities). So this makes for an interesting theoretical discussion, even if it is not for real.

    3. Re:That's actually a pretty cool idea. by Anarchos · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > How do you store the location in the media file in such a way that it can't be changed? How do you prevent players from being manufactured that don't look at the location.

      Because it's encrypted, with the GPS location being the key, or at least part of it. So it's not like you can just ignore a location header and get at the text file: you need to pass your GPS location into a decryption algorithm that will decrypt the scrambled data into a readable file.

      Of course, this can be an additional layer added onto existing methods of asymmetric encryption. As GPS units become more precise, we might even begin to have a "decryption tile" or square in bedrooms so that each resident has their own decryption key accurate to that specific square foot of space.

      Someone stole your laptop? They're going to have to break into your house, steal a key to your room, and stand on your decryption square just to decrypt any of your files. Sounds like an interesting acrobatic scene for Mission Impossible 3.

      --

      "A good conspiracy is an unprovable one." -Conspiracy Theory
    4. Re:That's actually a pretty cool idea. by yatest5 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Someone stole your laptop? They're going to have to break into your house, steal a key to your room, and stand on your decryption square just to decrypt any of your files.

      Not to pick holes in this theory, but this will also mean

      'on the move with your laptop? You're going to have to go home and stand on a postage stamp to decrypt that file you've just been sent'

      I can't think of anything stupider than an 'encryption square' in your room. But I'm not trying very hard.

      --
      • Mod parent up! [a] by Anonymous Coward (Score:5) Thurs, June 31, @13:37
    5. Re:That's actually a pretty cool idea. by Anarchos · · Score: 1

      That's not a "hole" in the theory, it's the entire point of using GPS location in the key: to restrict the location that the file can be accessed to reduce chances of compromise. I'd say that convenience and security are pretty much opposing forces: you need to pick a balance between the two depending on the circumstances. And I agree with you that this would be significantly inconvenient in most situations.

      --

      "A good conspiracy is an unprovable one." -Conspiracy Theory
    6. Re:That's actually a pretty cool idea. by kaiidth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Do a google search for 'Denning GPS'.

      First hit that comes up is a 1996 paper Location-based Authentication: Grounding cyberspace for better security, by Dorothy E. Denning and Peter F. MacDoran. Reading the paper, the idea looks to be that by knowing the location of a computer user one can define whether they are authorised to perform a particular action.

      This makes marginal sense (if somebody who isn't in a bank office is playing with computer codes then they're probably not really permitted to play with them). However, to me this article reads like, 'Hey, if I mention copyright protection, I'll get funding'. And the whole idea reads like that - after all, for the person in the above example to perform an unauthorised action on bank accounts, they must already have broken through the protection placed around the system. Simply adding another authentication isn't going to magically fix that problem (hey, you want me to tell the system I'm in the White House? OK. It's no different to telling the system that I'm Bob, financial manager).

      As for the use of said technology to control music distribution... what?!. If this woman is 'America's Cyberwarrior' then... be afraid. Very afraid. I'm sorry to say it, but whilst there are some very valid uses for GPS technology (something like HP's Cooltown project, mobile computing in general, augmented reality, etc), I don't think this is it.

      On the one side, it's valid to argue that including un-spoofable - if that's a word - location data in all internet communication would help in some cases (finding malicious hackers, absolving the innocent) but given that it also destroys the whole concept of anonymity, it's plain not worth it. Location information has to be optional. This is just another step in the 'media programs phoning home'/WinXP DRM direction, and it's not a good one.

      If I sound irritated, it's because I am; I have no idea what Denning's politics are or whether the spin on this story is merely unfortunate, but the article linked to in this story (somewhat unlike the paper) sounds like something the EFF will eventually find themselves fighting.

      I particularly like the part of that paper marked 'privacy considerations', where they note "The use of location signatures has the potential of being used to track
      the physical locations of individuals."

      Their solution?

      "Access to [this information] should be strictly limited." And, um, "Privacy can also be protected by using and retaining only that information which is needed for a particular application." Or you can "opt-out" of giving your information, although of course "some actions may be prohibited if location is not supplied".

      You mean the MPAA/RIAA are only going to retain as much information on me as they need for marketing purposes, and I can opt out if I don't mind never listening to another RIAA-produced CD? Thank you, Denning and MacDoran.

    7. Re:That's actually a pretty cool idea. by zeugma-amp · · Score: 1

      You're pretty much on target that this will be something that the EFF and others will probably be fighting if it ever comes to fruition.

      You might look here for information on Dorothy Denning's support of Clipper chip tehnology. As I recall, during the debate over key escrow, she was pretty much predictable in her arguments as a government stooge who sees no limit to what Big Brother should be capable of.

      A quick search on google for "dorothy denning clipper" will verify this.

      Since key escrow is off the radar screens, she's now pushing for location escrow. Hmmm... why am I not overly suprised.

      --
      This is an ex-parrot!
    8. Re:That's actually a pretty cool idea. by GlassUser · · Score: 2

      Or they could just use an altered GPS receiver, so it caches your the location when they stand on your decryption tile for a minute, and then they can decrypt anywhere.

      And don't go and propose something like the Digital Millenium Positioning Act, which prohibits anyone from making a GPSR without paying $X to the RIAA/MPAA.

    9. Re:That's actually a pretty cool idea. by AndroidCat · · Score: 2
      Ms. Denning's qualifications in the field are certainly well known. But... How can the GPS data be part of a trusted blackbox? (Encryption/decryption usually has to take place in a trusted blackbox. Best of all is on a seperate processor, but with proper security, modern processors can wall off processes enough to qualify for B2 qualification -- in ten years!)

      So, what's to stop me from using a device driver for GPS that lies? (I'm in, umm, Hong Kong, yeah, that's that ticket!) Unless GPS has some sort of digital signature, I can't see it.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    10. Re:That's actually a pretty cool idea. by AndroidCat · · Score: 3, Funny
      Someone stole your laptop? They're going to have to break into your house, steal a key to your room, and stand on your decryption square just to decrypt any of your files. Sounds like an interesting acrobatic scene for Mission Impossible 3.

      "While holding the holy laptop, standing on the sacred square, on third full moon of the year, make three clockwise circles with the mouse, then the sygil of Baalshamabeebop."

      ABORT, RESUMMON, INFERNAL DAMNATION?

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    11. Re:That's actually a pretty cool idea. by Rick+the+Red · · Score: 2
      I don't think you get it. The idea is not so much to encrypt movies sent to consumers but rather to encrypt movies sent to theaters. If someone intercepts the data stream for the latest movie their copy will only play at the target theater, so pirate DVDs of that data stream will be worthless. Once the film is in general release this system won't mean much. In other words, this won't replace CBDTPA.

      What got my attention was the idea that they could tap my computer to steal my encryption key, but still couldn't read my plans to take over the world at their office. They can only be read at my office.

      --
      If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
    12. Re:That's actually a pretty cool idea. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No,that is not a pretty cool idea.

      First of all(and I'm not 100% sure of this), but I don't think GPS even works unless you have approximate LOS to the satellite. So you couldn't be in you bedroom.

      Second, just like anything else, the GPS information would just be used as a key for the algorithm or it would just be added as a header file. Either way, the encryption algorithm could be the weakness, plus knowing that the key is based on a GPS location could make a brute force attack easier, since it might narrow the range of probable keys. If someone knows "where" the key is, they will know the key and be able to decrypt your files as easily as they could have without the GPS authentication.

      Even if this thing used some magic encryption which couldn't be broken, and noone could tamper with the hardware, the hardware could be fooled by setting up a shielded room and using your own transmitters to mimic the GPS of another place. An expensive answer, but not out of reason for large (company, government, piracy ring).

      Not only is it a stupid idea with few practical applications, but it would only be like encrypting a message/file/etc with a private key. The only strength would be that it would work for a time while it is new if all the internals are kept secret, but eventually someone (companty, government, pirate) will reverse engineer the system and it will be worthless.

    13. Re:That's actually a pretty cool idea. by djneko · · Score: 1
      Someone stole your laptop? They're going to have to break into your house, steal a key to your room, and stand on your decryption square just to decrypt any of your files. Sounds like an interesting acrobatic scene for Mission Impossible 3.

      Or walk around on your roof.

      --
      `/\/\
      (^.^)
      (")(")
      not quite an analog pussy, just a cat that plays with vinyl
    14. Re:That's actually a pretty cool idea. by corey_lawson · · Score: 1

      No, they triangulate roughly the coords of your house, and "brute force" it from there.

  5. Don't bother with GPS by October_30th · · Score: 0, Interesting

    They should use Galileo because it will be a multinational, civilian controlled system and thus not susceptible to military/intelligence community people just walking in and demanding decryption with a government issued, carte blanche, "national security" mandate.

    --
    The owls are not what they seem
    1. Re:Don't bother with GPS by Firefly1 · · Score: 1
      They should use Galileo [bbc.co.uk] because it will be a multinational, civilian controlled system and thus not susceptible to military/intelligence community people just walking in and demanding decryption with a government issued, carte blanche, "national security" mandate.

      Or, at least, it would seem to not have such a backdoor. It's likely there - quite well-hidden, but there. And, for extra laughs, distinct from the corporate backdoor(s)... can't forget about those, can we?
      Don't know about the rest of you, but I'd trust representatives of the military and intelligence communities more than I would some of the politicians and CEOs of late.

      --
      - White Knight of the Order of Mihoshi Enthusiasts
    2. Re:Don't bother with GPS by Firefly1 · · Score: 1
      But that's the point. When the project is coordinated among 10+ squabbling nation states it becomes hard to implement backdoors in secret.
      Imagine the reaction of the French if they caught Germany trying to sneak in a backdoor for EADS Deutschland or BND (or vice versa, Dassault Aviation and DRM)
      I suppose so. On the other hand, all that squabbling does make for natural cover. That question aside, though...
      Whoo, this'd make great technothriller fodder... no doubt some enterprising authours have already taken notice of that little fact; thanks for bringing it up.
      --
      - White Knight of the Order of Mihoshi Enthusiasts
  6. geocaching! by sheol · · Score: 1

    this will provide a whole new aspect to geocaching! what will they think of next?

  7. Good Lord by daeley · · Score: 4, Funny

    Armed with Denning's geo-encryption system, which she co-patented in 1998, only people in specified locations, such as movie theaters, living rooms or corporate conference rooms, would be able to unscramble the data.

    This is going to make playing with the hanger-antenna on top of the TV look like nothing. "Honey, I can't watch the movie until you bring it in the living room." What's worse though...

    Medical records could be sent from a doctor in Peoria for a second opinion to a doctor in Manhattan--and all without the usual worries over privacy leaks to insurers or investigators along the way.

    "But doctor, I thought I *was* a Region 1 patient."

    --
    I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
    1. Re:Good Lord by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honey, I can't watch the movie until you bring it in the living room.

      Uh... That's how it works now.

    2. Re:Good Lord by NorthDude · · Score: 0

      I know i'm replying to an off-topic, but hey! It's free-speach ;-)
      Could you explain me what would be so bad about Mandrake beiing purchased by Sun? I mean, this would mean more money invested into its devellopement, more devellopers, more time etc etc. And everything which is already gpl'ed would still be. I really don't understand peoples reasoning sometimes. Everybody talks about linux acceptance in the industry and when it finally happens, people are still complaining. For my part, I find it great if a big company like Sun decides to invest in it. Sure, they have their own motivation behind it, we can't deny it. But if it also benefits us, what's wrong with that?!?

      --


      I'd rather be sailing...
  8. It's all in the tamperproofing by Olivier+Galibert · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From a design point of view, it's simple. You have a gps, and some compuiter that will give you some data (i.e., a decription key) when the gps detects that you're at a specific position in space. The really, really hard part is making the device tamperproof.

    It has not only to resist to direct attacks trying to get to the data, it also has to deal with jamming of the gps signals, or more specifically putting the device in a faraday cage and sending it signals imitating the gps satellites in the appropriate position. Too bad the article has zero information on their methods.

    Oh well, let's hope a followup article by Schneier (who also considers the tamperproofing critical) will be more detailed on the technical side.

    OG.

    1. Re:It's all in the tamperproofing by tftp · · Score: 4, Insightful
      It has not only to resist to direct attacks trying to get to the data, it also has to deal with jamming of the gps signals, or more specifically putting the device in a faraday cage and sending it signals imitating the gps satellites in the appropriate position. Too bad the article has zero information on their methods.

      Methods are irrelevant. As soon as you put the receiver into a Faraday cage, you are the master of the Universe (inside of the cage). You are free to simulate as many satellites, and in as many positions as you wish, and nothing inside the device can detect your simulations, except if the real signals have a digital signature.

      You don't even need to bother with a Faraday cage. Just use strong enough signals from your simulator, and they will jam the AGC inside the receiver, so that only your signals are received correctly.

    2. Re:It's all in the tamperproofing by Nightlight3 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      You don't really need a Faraday cage. Namely to Change EM field vector A to a desired EM field vector B you simply add a single EM field vector C=B-A to A. The superposition will produce resulting vector B. A computer driven emitter with GPS sensors could probably do all this by inputing the desired coordinates into it.


      This is similar to computerized noise suppressors which work by continuously measuring the acoustic waves and emitting the waves of exactly the same amplitude and opposite phase. With GPS the situation is much easier since the waves to cancel are not random noise but a perfectly predictable source (after the initial measurement).

    3. Re:It's all in the tamperproofing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Faraday cage? My house is easily capable of blocking all GPS signals. Unless something changed drastically in GPS receivers that gives them orders of magnitude better reception indoors, this is going to be fairly useless.

    4. Re:It's all in the tamperproofing by Technician · · Score: 2

      Speaking of tampering, what is to prevent someone from using a pair of old 14.4 modems and pluging one in with the GPS at a location that has a subscription? Any machine anywhere can call the modem set to autoanswer which is connected to the GPS and get real valid data for the GPS location, not the PC location. I could be in Chicago where the big game is blacked out and call my dad retired in Florida and watch his feed using this simple cheat. I wonder if I should post annon. This may bend the DMCA discussing the merits and shortcommings of a security system. Since this isn't out in the wild as yet, I'll post this. They did already mention themselves that there was a problem with securing the PC to GPS connection so this is a known possible weak link.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    5. Re:It's all in the tamperproofing by Sinical · · Score: 1

      Real thieves who care could always buy a GPS simulator from someone like Stel (uhm, Stanford Electronics, I believe). They're about $300k or so, but they provide very accurate simulations of constellations, etc. -- just feed them a time of day and a starting location, and they provide the actual RF that you would see if you had an antenna in that location at that time: you in fact use them by plugging them into the antenna port on things like Rockwell-Collin's PLGR (Precision Lightweight GPS Receiver).

      They're neat, they allow for repeat testability (any time can be April 02 1306 at GMT -7 at coordinates XYZ), and you can use them when getting a GPS feed inside is hard, as it frequently is. I've found that even being under a metal awning will kill a GPS signal.

    6. Re:It's all in the tamperproofing by AndroidCat · · Score: 2
      They're neat, they allow for repeat testability (any time can be April 02 1306 at GMT -7 at coordinates XYZ), and you can use them when getting a GPS feed inside is hard, as it frequently is. I've found that even being under a metal awning will kill a GPS signal.

      Why diddle with all that when you can have the device driver report whatever position you want?

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  9. Holidays? by Mengoxon · · Score: 4, Funny

    Great, that means I can't listen to my music, DVDs, use my software when I am on holidays, on a business trip or at my second home?

    1. Re:Holidays? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course not! If you freely buy such a license to copyright material that does not allow playing it anywhere except in a predetermined location, you would be in breach of contract, and likely even a criminal to attempt anything like that. And in 2010, that will be the only kind of license available to a consumer.

    2. Re:Holidays? by darien · · Score: 1

      I don't think this technology is much use for "location-locking" entertainment media.

      If I bought a CD I couldn't listen to in my car, first thing I'd do is copy it onto MiniDisc. Bye bye location protection.

      But the problem is deeper than that. The record companies can't possibly know where you live, so they couldn't sell CDs in shops that could only be played at one particular GPS location. The nearest they could get would be to sell you a new CD player that supports location-locking, and have it send them your GPS location; then either mail you a CD encoded with those co-ordinates, or email you the image to burn yourself. This doesn't sound like a very saleable proposition - and if it were, it'd be far simpler and more secure for them to just have your player identify itself uniquely, use that as the encryption key and to hell with GPS.

      If this technology is ever to be used by anyone (whether or not this particular story is true), it will be by corporations and governments for sensitive data that they want only to be readable (eg) inside their head office/the Pentagon/wherever. In which case it could work, especially if they use an earlier poster's idea of requiring a particular path rather than just a present location. Go on, build your Faraday Cage - if you don't know this document was supposed to be couriered via Hooper Street and in through the side door, good luck decrypting it!

    3. Re:Holidays? by UP_Minstrel · · Score: 1

      That's gonna make the mobile satcom and airforce one concepts slightly less useful... but I'm sure some wingnut in a uniform will think of that before they spend any money.

    4. Re:Holidays? by 3247 · · Score: 2
      Great, that means I can't listen to my music, DVDs, use my software when I am on holidays, on a business trip or at my second home?
      Of course not. The music industry is loosing several billion dollars per year due to the the unauthorized use of purchased media in secondary locations. The second edition of the DCMA will provide legal measures against that.
      --
      Claus
    5. Re:Holidays? by cmdr_beeftaco · · Score: 1

      What you want then is the CD with the Vacation Package(tm) installed, this allows you listen to the CD from any location 2 weeks a year. The Extended Vacation Package(tm) is a better value and allows for use from any location in the world for a period of 6 weeks per year. The Extended Vacation Package very popular with the slackers in Germany and the rest of Europe. This is all just stupid. Using a location as the encryption key seems about as secure as using your birthday for a password.

    6. Re:Holidays? by cyberformer · · Score: 2
      Ah, but the record companies will know where you live. You'll have to tell them whenever you buy a CD. This way, they can be sure that they get accurate "opt-in" marketing information, instead of hundreds of people claiming to live in zipcode "12345."

      And don't even think of copying to a less restrictive technology: Under the CBDTPA, use of such circumvention measures will mean that you spend ten years with your address as "federal penitentiary."

    7. Re:Holidays? by darien · · Score: 1

      Under the CBDTPA, use of such circumvention measures will mean that you spend ten years with your address as "federal penitentiary."

      Doubt it - the CBDTPA has no force in the UK! :)

      My sympathy is with those of you whom it does affect though. That's one very very bad law you've got there.

  10. So when they know where I am... by Any+Web+Loco · · Score: 3, Funny

    they can come beat the information out of me?

    1. Re:So when they know where I am... by uberjon · · Score: 1
      they can come beat the information out of me?

      No they will probally kick in your door while your watching pr0n, take photographs, take you to room 101 and then beat confessions out of you!

      --
      Dick Laurent is dead.
    2. Re:So when they know where I am... by ThePilgrim · · Score: 1

      Room 101 had nothing to do with confessions, they came later. Room 101 was there to turn you into a Corperat^W BB loving drone. Once you loved BB the Party did not have to force confessions out of you. You did it as a matter of love.

      --
      Wouldn't it be nice if schools got all the money they wanted and the army had to hold jumble sales for guns
  11. No brainer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    So the encryption key is some location on Earth (longitude + latitude). Either you go there, or you use hack the device and input the coordinates without moving an inch.

    1. Re:No brainer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but go where or input what coordinates?

  12. nothing to do with copyright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    how silly. all you have to do is fool the machine into thinking it's someplace else. Put it in a metal box with your own custom transmitter(s). Or just go the right place, MAKE A COPY, and then spread it around.

    I really don't see how this "protectz kopyrightz".. it's just access controls. kinda neat in and of itself though.

  13. Slightly offtopic: Accuracy by FredBaxter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Perhaps I'm just really wrong (wouldn't be the first time) but do commercial GPS devices still have a small imperfection built in, along the scale of 10 meters (or was it more like 100)? I remember reading that the government did this to prevent terrorists from using GPS to pinpoint landmarks like the white house. This causes problems for some users though, such as being off by a city block or two, depending on the inaccuracy.

    --Please, don't waste your moderation points knocking me down. They can be used so much more effectivly elevating a worthy poster elsewhere...

    1. Re:Slightly offtopic: Accuracy by LadyLucky · · Score: 2
      It is significantly smaller than this. Also, i read recently that the military had stopped doing this, though this may not be true.

      Also, no matter the innacuracy, you can always get more accurate by sitting there for a bit longer.

      When i was cavortling around with one, you could get accuracies better than a metre.

      --
      dominionrd.blogspot.com - Restaurants on
    2. Re:Slightly offtopic: Accuracy by Jouster · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Yes, there are three grades of accuracy.
      1. Civilian: this is what anyone can access. This was discontinued because companies were about to come out with units that compensated for the programmatic imperfections the satellites were feeding the receivers. It was accurate to within one hundred meters, and is still applied on a regional basis (for instance, Iraq still has Civilian-level GPS accuracy).
      2. Military: this is now what both civilians and the general military share. It is accurate to within approximately twenty meters.
      3. SpecOps: this is what the SEALs, DEVGRU and all their friends use. It is accurate to within approximately one meter.

      An interesting page on accuracy and, specifically, the impact of the removal of Selective Availability, the scrambling algorithm for the old "Civilian" accuracy level, is available here, information on the SA shutdown's impact worldwide is here, and, finally, the IGEB, in charge of all this, is here.

      Jouster
    3. Re:Slightly offtopic: Accuracy by oldsk8r · · Score: 1

      My company use cell phone and radio station masts to 'true' the GPS signal, this gets us within 0.25 metres.

    4. Re:Slightly offtopic: Accuracy by GTRacer · · Score: 2
      ...using GPS to pinpoint landmarks like the white house.

      Isn't the whole point of a landmark that it doesn't move? I'm sure at some point SOMEONE was able to figure out a Good Enough targeting location for various key targets? What good would Selective Availability do against an inertial system fed these co-ords?

      GTRacer
      - IANAPG (precision gunner)

      --
      Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
    5. Re:Slightly offtopic: Accuracy by Whomp-Ass · · Score: 1

      From the FAQ

      With SA gone, do I still need differential GPS (DGPS)?
      It depends on your specific user requirements. If you are using GPS for safety-critical navigation, you will still need to use the Coast Guard DGPS or Nationwide DGPS to get the higher accuracy (1-3 meter) and the integrity monitoring/warning service. If you are a surveyor requiring sub-meter positioning, you will still need some form of DGPS to achieve that level of precision. On the other hand, if you are a trucking company using GPS to track and manage assets, the

  14. Seriously, April Fools is over by Kris_J · · Score: 1

    Come on people, enough is enough. AF was yesterday. Yesterday morning if you really want to stick to tradition. There's only so much you can take of these obviously stupid stories.

    1. Re:Seriously, April Fools is over by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, this one's real

    2. Re:Seriously, April Fools is over by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, at least they turned AC posting back on. Isn't that a good sign, this article might be serious?

    3. Re:Seriously, April Fools is over by Grail · · Score: 1

      I think someone forgot to check the date on the source article.

      I didn't think Dorothy was really quite this daft.

  15. What a weird idea! by tftp · · Score: 5, Interesting
    So this "cryptosystem" uses the GPS location as a key. Big deal. It's just Yet Another Key Generator. All it takes to defeat this scheme is a hack in the player, which asks "Enter GPS coordinates which came in this movie's NFO file", like serialz work. Alternatively, the unmodified player can be used, serially connected to another application that simulates the GPS receiver, asking the same question. Only if the decoder hardware is tamper-proof, then the known attacks against the key may be necessary.

    This is only how to defeat the system... I don't even mention what consumers will think of it... how would {RI,MP}AA justify licensing the material to a physical coordinates rather than a paying customer? It is not likely to work. GPS does not work inside buildings, BTW, and very few people go in a park to watch DVDs :-)

    1. Re:What a weird idea! by superflippy · · Score: 1

      how would {RI,MP}AA justify licensing the material to a physical coordinates rather than a paying customer?

      Clearly, they need to track the physical coordinates of the customers themselves. Time for everyone to get implants!

      --
      Your fantasies contain the seeds of important concepts.
    2. Re:What a weird idea! by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 2

      Well Congress could just pass a law outlawing buildings as an "illegal circumvention device".

      ;)

      well, it makes about as much sense as the DMCA and the SSSCA/CBDTPA...

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
  16. This technology will have no effect. by Fixer · · Score: 1
    The article was short on details, but from what I gather, both the encryptor and decrypter are hardware units with built-in GPS systems.

    Last I checked, GPS coordinates were accurate to only tens of meters, though with inertial guidance the accuracy goes to 1 meter. So that is a limited number of possible locations, or keys. Next, as soon as the algorythm is made public knowledge, it would seem to be relatively simple to cycle through all possible GPS coordinates for a given class of potential receivers (geocaching all movie theaters in the US to gain potential keys for StarWars Episode III, for example..)

    I mean, isn't one of the hallmarks of a good encryption method the lack of availible clues as to what sorts of keys might have been used? It would seem this method is extremely weak. But hey, it's late, and the article was very thin. Anyone have anything better to add?

    --
    "Avast! Prepare for the rodgering!" THWACK! "Arrr.. me nards.."
  17. doesn't sound particularly interesting by mmusn · · Score: 2
    Well, one can pretty obviously do this: you get a tamperproof box, put in a GPS receiver and whatever else, and only when the GPS receiver believes it is receiving the right signals does it release the data. Of course, what this is supposed to achieve is another question. Without two-way communications, you can simply receive and rebroadcast the signals to the box wherever it is. If you are careful with the timing, the adversary can be anywhere in the world where he can see the right kinds of satellites and retransmit the signals with the right kind of timing. And if you manage to build a tamperproof box, there are a lot much more useful ways of locking up information than that.

    There are intersting things you can do with spatial location and cryptography, but this isn't it.

  18. What if the recipient doesn't care for secrecy? by crosbie · · Score: 1

    So at best you get to ensure the location of the recipient.

    And if the recipient records the video on their HDD and e-mails it to a friend?

    And their friend bungs it on a file sharing service?

    This may be good for preventing casual interception for location-to-location messaging when both parties want to keep things secret, but why is it any good if the recipient couldn't give a damn about secrecy?

    How is this going to help stick another finger in the rapidly spongifying dyke of copyright?

  19. Old by Introspective · · Score: 1, Troll

    Uhh, guys I submitted this story last November and it was rejected. Now I'm not complaining about being rejected, but this story is really OLD, and the concept is a long way from being proven to be practical or even remotely possible.


    * 2001-11-22 21:35:54 New encryption technology : Geo-Encryption (articles,encryption) (rejected)

  20. Hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Considering the article was posted on April 1, I'm still more than a little bit sceptic...

  21. How's this any better? by NanoGator · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Umm... the problem with this technology is that devising an interesting key isn't the problem. The problem is that people can crack the encryption scheme itself. Adding the GPS element to it makes it even easier.

    I mean seriously, it sounds like all you'd need to do is run a few integers through it and eventually it'd unlock. This would be far easier than trying to decipher a key. I doubt fooling the GPS would prove all that difficult.

    Maybe i'm oversimplifying the situation a bit, but it never really seemed to me like the key was the weakest link in modern encryption schemes. By localizing the key to GPS co-ordinates, you're making it far easier for somebody to know where to look.

    --
    "Derp de derp."
    1. Re:How's this any better? by tftp · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Surface of Earth is 148,326,000 sq.km., or 1.48326e+14 sq.meters. If the resolution of the GPS is 10x10 meters (100 sq. meters), the GPS can yield 1.48326e+12 keys, which is equivalent to a 40-bit key (2^40 = 1.1e+12). This is one easily breakable key. But if such a system is really used, the grid must be much rougher because of usability concerns (many households are longer/larger than 10 meters). Then the strength of the key drops significantly.

      Another important defect of this system is that in modern society most people live in cities, and as such the keys are not randomly distributed, but very much clustered. To find a movie key, for example, one just needs to try GPS locations of few big cities (SF, LA, NYC etc.) to hit the paydirt.

      But likely, this key search won't be needed at all, because whoever posts the material on Usenet will put the necessary serialz ^W GPS code into the accompanying note. The only problem is to apply the key to get the raw contents, and that is not too difficult because all the strength of the crypto is in the key, not in the algorithm.

    2. Re:How's this any better? by Grail · · Score: 1

      Retail GPS systems such as the Garmin GPS II and III can provide resolutions down to 1 metre, with a positional error down to 4m.

      IMHO, the hard part of Dorothy's work isn't figuring out how to extract a key from a set of numbers that are only close to the expected key value - no, the hard part of Dorothy's work is finding people who are silly enough to believe that this system would provide any real form of security.

      Even worse than not providing security at all, imagine the instance where a signal is intercepted on the battlefield. "The Enemy" cracks the message, which means they now have the key. That means they now know exactly where to land their next volley of incendiary mortars.

      Something for the brass to ponder, methinks.

    3. Re:How's this any better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of the earth is water + north and south pole areas.
      Decription would only occur on land reducing the number of possible "keys"

  22. GPS test equipment by r_weaver · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Seems like all it would take to break this encryption would be some GPS test equipment.

    Just hook the tester to the decryption unit, and voila, you can make the decryption unit think it's anywhere in the world.

    Is enough of the GPS protocol published to make it feasible to create GPS simulator equipment from scratch or is the signal encrypted in such a way to make it too difficult (i.e. if some foreign government can't legally buy a GPS simulator, how hard is it to make one?). Is it even possible for the commercial simulators to really emumlate the satellites, or can the GPS unit tell the difference between a test signal and a real satellite?

    1. Re:GPS test equipment by dtr20 · · Score: 1

      The GPS protocol is indeed published in full. The military grade GPS uses decryption keys which are not published, but with the degradation currently turned off, there is no advantage in using the military signals.


      It is perfectly feasibly to build your own GPS simulator. You'll need a good head for maths, signal theory and RF electronics though... That's why the ones you buy cost many thousands of dollars. The simulated signal can emulate the real GPS signals well (including multipathing, doppler etc) so it is not really feasible to differentiate the two.


  23. Not anymore. Please catch up with the news. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
  24. Copyright enforcement? by NanoGator · · Score: 2

    Did anybody else think that the use of the word 'copyright' in this article felt like it didn't belong? Either the author was running with an idea in his/her head that he didn't quite get to elaborating on, or he/she was hoping to ride the wave of publicity generated by SSSCA.

    "I got a scoop!"

    --
    "Derp de derp."
  25. Re:Accuracy by silvaran · · Score: 5, Informative

    It was around 100 meters in any direction from your current location. And yes, it was by the U.S. government to prevent people from bombing the White House. As if a bomb big enough, off by 100 meters, would actually miss the white house.

    They removed it sometime last year, I believe. With 9-11, there are rumors they may impose the restriction again, but that's assuming any primary threats have missiles capable of using GPS.

    This restriction would pose little or no problem to people using it for the purposes this article describes. GPS correction is available through a "post-processing" method. You position a GPS base station at a known location. If you take samples at exactly the same time from different locations, those locations are off by exactly the same error vector. So, you simply compare the base station samples to the base station position to get the error vector, and apply this error vector to the roaming samples to get your almost-exact position.

    I say almost exact because signals are disrupted by various things. Light and sound are waves; they move at a constant speed as long as the travel medium doesn't change. As a consequence, like sound, light is affected by the doppler effect. It usually isn't significant, but can throw your results off nonetheless.

    Clouds, rain, snow, buildings, etc. can also affect the results, as well as the SNR (signal to noise ratio -- measures the amount of readable data to background noise). If the SNR is high, it's unlikely the results will be thrown off significantly. All these problems are virtually unavoidable unless the weather is clear, you have a high channel capacity on your GPS device (8 is usually good, I think available satellites above the horizon range from about 8-11, high on elevated terrain), and there are few if any buildings around.

    You need at least n+1 satellites in reach to get nth-dimensional results. So, for planar (2d) positions (latitude/longitude, or azimuth or whatever) you need 3 satellites, and 4 for spatial (3d, 2d + a z-position, your elevation).

    The more satellites, the more precise your results are. If the base station is within 500 metres away, and you have real-time correction (which would still help with climate problems), you can get sub-centimetre accuracy.

  26. Maybe not for copyrights... by Kalewa · · Score: 1

    This seems very Bond-ish. Less practical for protecting copyrights and more like it could be used to protect sensitive government data or something.

    "Remember 007, the document will be unreadable until you reach Paris..." ;)

  27. What's new? by 1984 · · Score: 2

    There are two points here:

    - [If] it's keyed to GPS location,
    then you have a defined search space. This search space is the set of all practically resolvable locations on earth. Worse, this is (a bit) like a "non-flat" keyspace, since you can rule out *lots* of locations, and start with some obvious ones (think how John the Ripper and L0phtcrack work).

    - It requries a tamperproof unit.
    Go and look up all the usual issues with "tamperproof" units.

    Neither of these things make it useless. They just bound the situations (and probably the length of time) for which it may potentially be of use.

  28. For more technical info, read her 1996 article by Vairon · · Score: 2, Informative

    Dorothy E. Denning and Peter F. MacDoran wrote a article on the subject which was published in Computer Fraud & Security in February of 1996.

    To read the article click here.

    In addition, her home page is at http://www.cs.georgetown.edu/~denning/.

    1. Re:For more technical info, read her 1996 article by fahnd · · Score: 1

      Good background info. If people only read the technical material, we wouldn't have to wade through dozens of posts dismissing the idea as stupid.

      Granted, the article in the original post contains too little information to make a judgment. Why people still do, beats me.

      For those not wanting to read through the article, I'll sum up the technical point:

      The GPS raw signals are used to authenticate a position, not just the coordinates computed from the raw signals. Furthermore, the other party which checks your position has to have at least one satellite in view (at the same time) that you have in view as well, thereby being able to check that you haven't forged the signature computed from the raw GPS signals.

    2. Re:For more technical info, read her 1996 article by Eimi+Metamorphoumai · · Score: 2
      I did read that article. It says, in part
      The location signature is virtually impossible to forge at the required accuracy. This is because the GPS observations at any given time are essentially unpredictable to high precision due to subtle satellite orbit perturbations, which are unknowable in real-time, and intentional signal instabilities (dithering) imposed by the U.S. Department of Defense selective availability (SA) security policy. Further, because a signature is invalid after five milliseconds, the attacker cannot spoof the location by replaying an intercepted signature, particularly when it is bound to the message (e.g., through a checksum or digital signature). Continuous authentication provides further protection against such attacks.
      So to authenticate, the host station gets the same signals as the client that's trying to authenticate, and can calculate what the client would be receiving if it were in the right place. What I don't understand is what would prevent anyone else who can get those signals from computing the same thing and sending that. So you could limit the location a little (ie, if you're on the other side of the world you can't see the same satellites, so you're screwed), but I can't see that as being too useful.
      --

      Visit me on #weirdness on the Galaxynet.

  29. not for consumer use by ddent · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is probably to try and prevent intercepting a movie on its way to the theatres. As to whether it is possible to do this effectively is another question altogether...

  30. Circuit Shitty by yerricde · · Score: 1

    Great, that means I can't listen to my music, DVDs, use my software when I am on holidays, on a business trip or at my second home?

    Do you really think consumers are going to buy into some re-hashed Circuit Shitty DIVX with GPS protection?

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
    1. Re:Circuit Shitty by Mengoxon · · Score: 1

      Well - I hope not!

  31. STOP WHINING by EnglishTim · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Geez.

  32. Dammit, if this don't deserve +1 inform, what duz? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is is, all the info you need.

    Now mod the bitch up.

  33. Is that really hard to crack? by DrSpirograph · · Score: 1

    Ok, I know nothing about how GPS works, but presumably somewhere along the line you get some kind of set of integers that you can interpret into your global position. So if you knew the intended destination for the message, how hard would it be to write an algorithm that would take those coordinates and give you the key to decode the message?
    Hmm, now I actually write this out loud, it's starting to read a lot like "April Fool!"

    1. Re:Is that really hard to crack? by Britney · · Score: 1
      Ok, I know nothing about how GPS works

      Ok, how about asymmetric keys? No?

      Have a look at some of these Google results

      --

      --
      (if you're still looking for the point, it was back there, in the post. </sig>)
    2. Re:Is that really hard to crack? by DrSpirograph · · Score: 1

      Ok, how about asymmetric keys? No?

      Yes, I'm just not quite seeing it (it's on the tip of my brain).

      If the GPS coordinates are used to generate the key, symmetric or asymmetric, why is this any harder to crack than a regular asymmetric or symmetric encryption? And if either of the keys is based on the GPS coordinates than surely that makes it easier?

  34. Re:Accuracy by tftp · · Score: 3, Interesting
    With 9-11, there are rumors they may impose the restriction again, but that's assuming any primary threats have missiles capable of using GPS.

    Cruise missiles guide[d] themselves not with GPS, but just using a machine vision systems. They compare actual land beneath them to a map stored in the missile, and generate corrections this way. Does not work well at night, but totally self-contained and jam-proof.

    Besides, there are many other solutions to the "last 100 meters" problem. An infrared laser, for example, can highlight the target, and the missile locks onto the bright spot. This one is used for many years (so-called "laser-guided bombs").

  35. YOU FIRST! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Think about it.

    1. Re:YOU FIRST! by EnglishTim · · Score: 2

      Damn. I thought I was flaming.

  36. GPS signals impossible to fake by Llanfairpwllgwyngyll · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So it's impossible to fake the GPS signals eh? They're not anything like a regular structured and well-understood format or anything....

    I suppose faraday cage technology will be outlawed (only terrorists would want to use a faraday cage surely...)

    Faking up the signals and the timing is a matter of some electronics. There is no strength here.

    Snake oil. Move on people, nothing to see here....

    1. Re:GPS signals impossible to fake by mbbac · · Score: 1

      Dammit, I guess I better buy my iMac before Faraday cages are outlawed!

      --

      mbbac

  37. GPS location == known data by Ryu2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you know the region which the data is intended for (eg, by looking at the region code on a DVD), voila, you just feed the data into whatever algorithm transforms GPS coordinates into the decryption key.

    Since GPS location is not random and is known, you can spoof the data, and not even have to do a brute force search over a random keyspace as you would with a normal cryptoscheme...

    --
    There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
  38. Dennigs has had stupid ideas / opinions before: by villoks · · Score: 5, Informative

    Some juicy bites from her publications:

    Is Encryption Speech? A Cryptographer's Perspective

    ..My conclusion is that modern encryption is predominately a privacy
    enhancing technology rather than speech. Although encryption might be
    regarded as a manner of speech, it is unlike other methods in that it
    contributes nothing to communication.

    One implication of this interpretation is that regulation of encryption
    would not violate the First Amendment. Another is that restrictions on
    the use of encryption could not be used as a basis for prohibiting the
    use of an obscure foreign language or any other ordinary language.


    Testimony Before U.S. House of Representatives, May 3, 1994.


    "..The Clipper Chip and associated key escrow system is a technically
    sound approach for ensuring the security and privacy of electronic
    communications. Clipper's SKIPJACK encryption algorithm provides
    strong cryptographic security, and the key escrow system includes
    extensive safeguards to protect against unauthorized use of keys. The
    more advanced chip, Capstone, further provides all the cryptographic
    functionality needed for information security on the National
    Information Infrastructure."


    And there's even more, go and see by yourself. I'm really waiting for the comments from the cryptograhical community on this systems..

    V.

    1. Re:Dennigs has had stupid ideas / opinions before: by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Since she had access to the details of Clipper and you didn't, and she knows way more about cryptography than you do...on what basis do you claim that her conclusions about Clipper are "stupid"?

    2. Re:Dennigs has had stupid ideas / opinions before: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Standard Slashbot response follows:

      Security through obscurity is no security at
      all.

      The clipper chip/SKIPJACK/capstone were secret, and they were hardware. So when if they had been used widely and someone cracked the secret "secure"(We don't know, we haven't seen it) algorithm, then bam, every device using those technologies is cracked.

      Also Denning is famouse for her views that escrowed keys are necessary. All keys would be kept in escrow by the government, and she trusts that the government would not abuse having access to those keys.

      So her views amount to:
      All your keys belong to U.S

      --Blah is me

    3. Re:Dennigs has had stupid ideas / opinions before: by markmoss · · Score: 3, Insightful

      on what basis do you claim that her conclusions about Clipper are "stupid"?

      Thinking that we'll trust the government not to misuse crypto keys is very, very stupid.

    4. Re:Dennigs has had stupid ideas / opinions before: by nestler · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Her having access to the details of Clipper hardly makes her some unbiased expert on the technical merits of that chip. Do you recall when the FBI went shopping for universities that would sign of on Carnivore saying that it was great and that it wouldn't harm anyone's privacy? Some universities (MIT) refused to sell out and sign there name to the FBI's pre-written statement about what the "university review" had found, so the FBI had to go to universities with less scruples that would sign off on such things.

      The point is that the FBI lobbied Clipper in the same way. I'm sure they knew she would say this kind of stuff before they even approached her with any of the actual details.

      Also, for what it is worth, Clipper was completely bunk. Key escrow is a bogus concept anyway, but that aside, Clipper wasn't even a technically sound implementation of key escrow. They used a hash function so weak that you could erase your chips serial number, rewrite it as something random, and then collide their crappy hash to make it impossible to tell that you had tampered with the serial number. Voila, a Clipper for which they wouldn't know the key.

    5. Re:Dennigs has had stupid ideas / opinions before: by AndroidCat · · Score: 2
      Ah my, it might be time to pull out an old .sig I made up a few years ago.

      (( THX-Clipper ))
      The Government is listening...

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  39. Bring "bad reception" to your eBook by rjamestaylor · · Score: 2
    I can just see it -- "No dear, hold the book over to the left and bend slightly at the knee" just to read an eBook set for precise location decoding.

    I'll get to re-live my childhood wherein I had to stand off to the left of the TV and lean away while holding the antenna during Monday Night Football so my Dad could cheer the Cowboys. Uh...no thanks...

    --
    -- @rjamestaylor on Ello
  40. Whats to stop jacking in @ reciever? by Joe+'Nova' · · Score: 1

    I mean if you tap the incoming line to your reciever, what's the difference?
    Please, before I get flambe'd, I know the obstacles, but suppose a janitor is your buddy, lets you do some work "after work", so you can take it home with you. One p2p later, at least one day later, 100s of copies are floating.
    I think any system is only as good as weakest link, and any system that cannot be taken advantage of is virtually useless!

    --
    This mind intentionally left blank.
    The KKK a bunch of sheetheads? You decide!
  41. Euro-GPS? by t_allardyce · · Score: 1

    Another excuse for the US Government to try and stop the Euro-GPS going ahead on the grounds that it violates the DMCA/SSSCA/'Cable Bullshit Act'. Or, maybe it just wont work with the new system which would mean everyone would still be forced to use the American system for decrypting DVDs (The only thing this technology will be used for).

    --
    This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
  42. Won't Happen For 15 Years by Percy_Blakeney · · Score: 1, Insightful
    There is no way on Earth that this thing will be used any time soon to encrypt and distribute things over the Internet, assuming that it fundamentally works anyway. The last page of the article talks about how she will need to change every router on the Internet to make it work:

    [Glick] fretted that encrypted data could be intercepted on its way to the user. What if pirates tapped into a router? ...
    [Denning] came up with a way to make routers themselves "locationally intelligent"-in other words, the GPS-based encryption itself would change dynamically as it moved through the path from owner to user.

    Obviously she hasn't been keeping tabs on how long it takes new standards (read: IPv6) to be implemented on the Internet.

  43. Re:Accuracy by yatest5 · · Score: 1

    This restriction would pose little or no problem to people using it for the purposes this article describes. GPS correction is available through a "post-processing" method. You position a GPS base station at a known location. If you take samples at exactly the same time from different locations, those locations are off by exactly the same error vector. So, you simply compare the base station samples to the base station position to get the error vector, and apply this error vector to the roaming samples to get your almost-exact position.

    You cold have done this, if the error vector hadn't been random (between 0 and the limit).

    --
    • Mod parent up! [a] by Anonymous Coward (Score:5) Thurs, June 31, @13:37
  44. Fuck this two day hangover at work by October_30th · · Score: 0

    Low expectation -> something good happens -> renewed hope -> excitement about the future -> disappointment when nothing happens -> despair -> low expectation -> something good happens -> renewed hope -> excitement about the future -> disappointment when nothing happens -> despair -> low expectation -> something good happens -> renewed hope -> excitement about the future -> disappointment when nothing happens -> despair -> low expectation -> something good happens -> renewed hope -> excitement about the future -> disappointment when nothing happens -> despair -> low expectation -> something good happens -> renewed hope -> excitement about the future -> disappointment when nothing happens -> despair -> low expectation -> something good happens -> renewed hope -> excitement about the future -> disappointment when nothing happens -> despair -> low expectation -> something good happens -> renewed hope -> excitement about the future -> disappointment when nothing happens -> despair -> low expectation -> something good happens -> renewed hope -> excitement about the future -> disappointment when nothing happens -> despair -> low expectation -> something good happens -> renewed hope -> excitement about the future -> disappointment when nothing happens -> despair -> low expectation -> something good happens -> renewed hope -> excitement about the future -> disappointment when nothing happens -> despair

    --
    The owls are not what they seem
  45. They'll copyright breathing next... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I presume this is nothing more than standard key-escrow encryption method such as PGP but using the GPS location as a private(?) key.

    I can't believe the copyright office would let someone copyright (and therefore prevent others from) using any encryption keys that can be construed to be a GPS location.

    The madness continues...

  46. yeh, or by autopr0n · · Score: 2

    they could just supply fake values to the GPS curcit, as could anyone for any purpose. This isn't encryption, its a farce. (and suppose this could be made to work... what would happen if the GPS system whent out of commission for some reason?)

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
    1. Re:yeh, or by sulli · · Score: 2

      Or brute-force it, as noted by others in this thread. I'm no cryptographer but this sounds like crappity crappity crap to me.

      --

      sulli
      RTFJ.
  47. high rise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What happens if you live in a highrise building I personally live on the 20th floor, withing 10 (horizontally there are 3 apartments, Does that mean all 60 apartments can use it.

    IIRC GPS is crap for height,

    anon

  48. Skipjack !- Clipper by gd23ka · · Score: 1

    NSA-Skipjack != Clipper.
    Skipjack been broken yet to my knowledge and the breakable encryption system (clipper) you're talking about had session key recovery built in on purpose.

    1. Re:Skipjack !- Clipper by Anonnymous+Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      True, but Denning wanted key escrow. That's enough in my opinion for her and her minions to be taken to the Hague and tried for crimes against humanity.

  49. Re:Accuracy by fabiolrs · · Score: 1

    Ha... if a terrorist wanted to bomb the White House then he could use Glonass, the Russian "GPS" which I believe is much better!!!

    --
    Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
    http://www.morroida.com.br
  50. no by autopr0n · · Score: 2

    It just means you have to buy a black-market fake-GPS signal generator

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
  51. Something about this phrase bothers me by crovira · · Score: 2

    "came up with a way to make routers themselves "locationally intelligent"?in other words, the GPS-based encryption itself would change dynamically as it moved through the path from owner to user."

    Knowing how hard its been to get the router manufacturers to adopt IPv6, I think she's smoking "Happy Pixy Dust."

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  52. Denning famous for supporting Clipper by astrashe · · Score: 3, Informative

    Prof. Denning used to be one of the chief supporters of the government's Clipper key escrow system:

    Click here to read a letter she wrote at the time.

    1. Re:Denning famous for supporting Clipper by Isao · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Though I'd think that this could be spoofed pretty easily, I would give her the benefit of the doubt.

      When she received evidence (not hearsay) that wiretap authority is being abused, she changed her mind quire publicly about Clipper and key escrow.

      Anyone staying true to the scientific method deserves a fair critique.

    2. Re:Denning famous for supporting Clipper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In fact, that was her second flip-flop.


      She began by opposing Clipper and related gov't-mandated key-escrow proposals. Back in those heady days of the internet opening up to access for all, she seemed to be quite the libertarian and friend of the cypherpunk. Then she started doing research with a some of the local 3-letter-acronyms. Suddenly she started getting really concerned about issues of control, and of monitoring the behaviors of the unwashed masses.


      We were quite startled when she started talking about gov't back doors being a good thing, and making sure that standards could at least *support* an escrow infrastructure (no, really, we won't make it *required*, not yet).


      I guess she flipped first when presented with evidence that criminal types were getting away with murder because authorities couldn't get to the evidence they wanted. Then she must have flopped back when she saw evidence that the authorities were being criminal in their abuse of power.



      Maybe it should be the government's own top secret info that should be encrypted with an escrowed key. That way watchdogs and whistleblowers could easily get to the data that would prove their allegations of coverups and malfeasance.

  53. Re:Accuracy by Digitalia · · Score: 2

    Actually most cruise missiles use an inertial navigation system with terrain contour-matching updates and others use an inertial navigation system integrated with a multi-channel onboard GPS (AGM86B and AGM86C respectively). Furthermore, some guided bombs make use of an inertial/GPS system as well (GBU 31/32). So, while it certainly wouldn't cripple the military, a disruption of GPS would hamper them ever so slightly.

    --
    Pax Digitalia
  54. Oh lord... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >copyright-protection

    What part of "Everything is breakable" is unclear to her? Geez what a brainfart!

  55. Re:Accuracy by silvaran · · Score: 1

    It doesn't matter whether or not it's random (it actually repeats the randomization algorithm every 12 hours, so to get an accurate response for your position you would have to wait 12 hours, after which you would get a totally different error pattern). As long as you take two samples at the same time - one at the base station and the other at the roaming device. They're both off by the same amount; it has nothing to do with randomness.

  56. ...of *course* i need to go to the bahamas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...this data's been encoded with GPS encryption for security and can only be read in a few select locations...

  57. This sounds dumb to me by mbone · · Score: 2, Informative

    There must be something they are not telling about, as this sounds really dumb to me.

    GPS is really simple in principle. There are 24 satellites in 12 hour orbits, with orbital planes arranged so that at least 4 are up for anyone on the planet at any time. Each satellite sends its own encrypted signal (actually, 2 such) to everyone who can receive it.

    The reciever decodes the signal, and checks the time lag between when each satellite's signal was received. That's it. All of the geolocation is deduced from the relative lags of the signals broadcast for all to receive.

    Four satellites are needed as the receiver's clock is probably off; two signals are sent as the easily decoded civilian one has errors put in to reduce accuracy (SA - Selective Availability), while the other signal has a military grade encryption.

    That's it. My signals differ from yours only based on the relative time delay between them.

    So, this is subject to a replay attack - simply record the signal at the desired location and replay it to a receiver at your actual location. This would work even for the military grade encryption, but would require a sensor at the actual target location of the geo-encryption.

    To do this near to (within 4000 km or so, so that the same satellites are up) of the target location, record the signal. Figure out the relative time delay's. Playback the signal multiple times with the appropriate lags for the other location. As the receiver uses a convolutional decoder and an omnidirectional antenna, if you do this right, the receiver will lock onto the time shifted satellite, and will come up with the wrong position.

    The above replay attack would require a wide bandwidth (few 100 mbps) record capability and (for the time shifted version) a good ephemeris - both easily available. AND, it would work even for encryptions using the military signal.

    But, you don't have to go to the trouble, as there is test equipment easily available that will do this for you (it's how you test receivers). This would not work for the encrypted military signal though.

    Since these people are not stupid, my guess is they will sell a decrypt chip with with a receiver on it, and maybe use tight time delay's windows to hinder replay attacks. Give me $ 30,000 for test / record equipment, and I will break it even so. Since this level is not out of bounds for industrial movie pirates, "This sounds dumb to me."

    1. Re:This sounds dumb to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are missing something, but you had the best shot I've read so far.

      IIRC GPS packets include a timestamp and the whole lot is signed or encrypted. Every GPS unit decodes atleast the civilian info. And in doing so, authenticates it.

      For this scheme here, the 'Movie-Server' will require you send all the original GPS packets before it sends you the movie.

      The Movie-Server would check the packets and from what satellites you heard from and discern what region of the world you were in, maybe down to what 1/6 of the globe your in. Certainly no better, that relies on the timestamps of reception which can't be trusted.

      The satellites all transmit simultaneously (duh) and the timestamp is only good for 5ms IIRC, so relaying it around the world would be hard.

      All this talk of Faraday cgaes, spoofs and replay attacks are rubbish. If GPS was susceptible you could decieve all kinds of GPS equipment just being near it.

      This system is looking to piggyback off the security of GPS as best it can. Its a neat idea but I think it only goes halfway.

    2. Re:This sounds dumb to me by gorilla · · Score: 2
      Way out of date...

      SA is turned off nowadays, differental GPS made it silly. The civilian signal is now identical in accuracy to the military signal.

      For the number of satellites, there are also 2 WAAS satellites. These are in geosync orbit above the pacific and atlantic coasts of North Americia, these receive corrections from 25 ground stations, and rebroadcast the corrections. Europe and Japan are also developing equvilant correction networks for their areas, so eventually there will be at least 29 satellites.

  58. I was before all of you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    * 1977-02-29 21:35:54 New encryption technology : Geo-Encryption (articles,encryption) (rejected)

  59. fudcryption by jukal · · Score: 1

    This is 100% pure FUD. The "secret" used to encrypt / decrypt data in this model does not seem very secret.

    The idea itself sounds Hollywoodic and nice: "Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to find the Ladies room, sit on the correct seat and decrypt this piece of FUD." ( hoping the ladies room has no roof, so that the signal goes through)

    In obfuscation we trust!

  60. MAC or IP address encryption by GodSpiral · · Score: 2

    This has the same chance of success as using a NIC's MAC address for encryption.

    The idea of making the software and your NIC tamper proof, so that it always gets the "real" MAC address from the physical card is bypassed quite simply by writting new software that lets you plug in whatever MAC/GPS address you would care to pretend to have as a decryption input.

    Its a crack once, decode freely foreever problem, and its one of negligeable difficulty.

  61. This is so wrong it's not even funny by jcochran · · Score: 1

    In order for this scheme to even work it requires.

    1. An encryption method that is secret

    2. A tamper proof implementation of same

    3. A method of detecting if the GPS signals are being spoofed

    Reasoning.

    1. If the method isn't secret, then someone can simply say screw the hardware, and build a decryptor that can generate the key for any location of earth to pass to the encryption algorythm.

    2. If the implementation isn't tamperproof, it can be spoofed into acting as if it's anywhere I want. Also the algorythm can be compromised (see #1 above).

    3. If it can't detect a spoofed GPS signal, then once again, I can have it act as if it's anywhere I want it to be.

    As regards performing an exhaustive key search to decrypt the data (using whatever method you desire), the following tidbits are available for your consideration.

    1. There is about 2^61 10 meter square places on the surface of the earth. 2^61 is a fairly large number, but not out of the realm of an exhaustive search.

    2. But, in most cases, you don't need to perform an exhaustive search. The location is already specified for the "protected" data. All you really need is an "unapproved" implementation of the algorythm and you simply dial in the approved location and decode to your hearts' desire.

    Overall, this is one of the sillier ideas that I've seen.

  62. Social-Encryption by jukal · · Score: 1

    Why not just encrypt per social security number? Or to make it hacker proof, we could also use your mother's father's daughter's kid's name as seed.

  63. Re:GPS [NOT] signals impossible to fake by billsf · · Score: 1

    In a Faraday, or just indoors, it would seem trivial to spoof a $50 piece of electronics. It is like using GPS to 'insure' a new release of a hit to be won't be played until its time. Trivial crack and it was.

    Its 2 april here, but perhaps this was posted 1 april somewhere? Am i a sucker for responding? Guess the crackpot DCMA would make it 'secure' in the USA?

  64. Not that different from DVD region encoding by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The decryption key is in a hardware device (or in this case calculated from coordinates by the hardware device based on some other secret key). Presumably, the GPS receiver is integrated with the device so that positions can't be spoofed directly.

    This leaves two avenues of attack. The first is to recover the encryption key, the second is to spoof the satellite signals. Neither one is beyond someone with adequte resources (an intelligence agency or a serious industrial pirate). But supposing they are clever enough to avoid shipping a software based decoder, it will probably work well enough to discourage casual users.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  65. Sounds familiar by Andy+Social · · Score: 1

    Wasn't this used in the Neal Stephenson book, Zodiac?

    --
    Illegitimi non carborundum
  66. Re:Accuracy by mpe · · Score: 2

    It was around 100 meters in any direction from your current location. And yes, it was by the U.S. government to prevent people from bombing the White House. As if a bomb big enough, off by 100 meters, would actually miss the white house

    Also based on the asumption that whoever is doing the bombing cannot see the target.

    They removed it sometime last year, I believe. With 9-11, there are rumors they may impose the restriction again, but that's assuming any primary threats have missiles capable of using GPS.

    Ignoring the fact that the terrorists that morning probably worked by eye.

  67. Re:Accuracy by mpe · · Score: 2

    Cruise missiles guide[d] themselves not with GPS, but just using a machine vision systems. They compare actual land beneath them to a map stored in the missile, and generate corrections this way. Does not work well at night, but totally self-contained and jam-proof.

    I though they used radar rather than optical systems. The only missiles I recall using optical sensors are SLBMs.Anyway they also have an inertial navigation navigation system.

    Besides, there are many other solutions to the "last 100 meters" problem.

    Control by kamikazie being the most low tech option.

  68. not cryptogram, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it hit politech a while ago

    http://www.politechbot.com/p-02843.html

    where you can read, among others, Peter Trei's response. there are more cryptographers in the world than schneier, after all...

  69. Its is simple ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The way this would work is simple. You would have a PGP key You would have a GPS component. You can send it the world over. Everybody get's the message. The only person that can decript it is he/she who: 1. Has PGP decription key and 2. Is at the right place to read it. So now, even if they steal your key, they need to know were you read your e-mail. But then again, all they need to do is scan a few million GPS positions and they have decripted you. So it is no more secure than going from 128bit + GPS to 133bit encription or thereabouts. In reality it only makes it harder for the reader so I can't see the practicality other than if the author of the message demands that you read it at a particular place.

  70. Use the Force^W NMEA, Luke! by Thor+Ablestar · · Score: 1

    Yes, I have read a big part of the discussion. And I must notice the following that nobody IMHO has mentioned:

    All the GPS receivers use the well-documented format for data exchange. If somebody produces a program that uses the GPS receiver as a key device, it's elementary to make the receiver simulator. You don't need any Faraday's cages or GPS signal generator - you only feed data via RS-232 channel.

    Of course, somebody can require that the special receiver with the builtin digital certificate is needed. But this receiver, being special, will be prohibitively expensive.

  71. A small flaw in the logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder if she has ever tried to get a GPS position inside a building?.

    It just don't work

  72. Re:They still haven't fixed.... by Technician · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They still haven't fixed the problem of secure GPS to computer connection. Maybe a Cue Cat style serial numbered USB GPS will be required to make it work. Each subscriber would have a GPS with a unique serial number and an encrypted output much like that favorite free barcode wand. Without protecting the GPS/PC connection A pair of old 14.4K stand alone modems (one on a cell) will take a GPS signal from your favorite movie house and send it anywhere in the world in almost real time.

    Just dial it up. I could put a modem on a GPS at a subscribed location and let friends know where to dial in to connect. Internet latency would cover up transmission losses over the modem pair. Less than perfect timing would still work.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  73. What's really important by GangstaLean · · Score: 1
    Forget the technical feasibility of this. It's obviously ridiculous, not even worth talking about.


    What _is_ important is that someone needs to write this idea into a movie script. How fun would a movie be about someone who has to rush around to different places to find a bomb or rescue their family or [insert goal here] (the GPS/decoder device is booby trapped so it can't be hacked easily).

    --
    -- Bird in the Bush: The Renewable Energy Blog http://www.birdinthebush.org
  74. missing the point surely by geoff+lane · · Score: 1

    encryption does NOT prevent copying.

    A GPS encryption scheme just means you have to be in a particular area before you can pirate a copy.

    Hasn't anyone learnt anything from the DeCSS farce?

  75. I can see it now... by jvl001 · · Score: 1
    Scene: A little old lady sitting on a park bench feeding the pigeons. A man in a overcoat carrying a silver briefcase walks up the the bench.

    Overcoat Man: Excuse me, I'm terribly sorry but could I bother you to move over. I really must sit there.

    Old Woman: Oh... ok.

    Man sits down, opens up briefcase, activates laptop and proceeeds to download wireless secret transmission.

    --
    /. is to journalism as graffiti is to a bathroom wall
  76. Ridiculuous by photon317 · · Score: 2


    1 - As stated in the linked article, if the device isn't tamper-proof, it doesn't work.

    But also...

    2 - There's no reason you can't just convince the device it's at a different location by shielding out the real GPS signals and transmitting your own fake ones from nearby. I'm sure a good RF/GPS hacker could build a box to contain your geo-encryption device that allows you to select a fake longitude and latitude.

    The whole idea is just silly. There's no mathematical or scientific principle behind this geo-encryption that makes it work, just a supposedly tamper-proof box that relies on GPS airwaves to determine when it shoudl say "Yes, allow this data to be seen".

    --
    11*43+456^2
  77. Are GPS signals cryptographically signed? by belphegor · · Score: 1

    Are GPS signals cryptographically signed? If they are, then perhaps the system could be made tamperproof against spoofed signals in a Faraday cage.

    If not, then capturing the device would pretty much mean you could get at the data.

    As for the idea of using these for military commanders & such -- wouldn't the places they're going to need to receive communications have some sort of TEMPEST protection to begin with? GPS is sketchy enough if you're inside a building period -- if you're in an electrically shielded building to boot, there doesn't seem to be much hope that this will work.

    1. Re:Are GPS signals cryptographically signed? by Russ+Steffen · · Score: 1

      Yes, the GPS signals are cryptographically signed. It's a feature of the system called Anti-Spoofing (AS). However, it won't do this piece of shit any good because the keys required to authenticate the signal are considered classified data, and only available to the military and a select few others. And it's not like GPS simulators don't exist, either.

  78. Re:They still haven't fixed.... by GlassUser · · Score: 2

    Actually I believe the NEMA 1.2 or whatever (the standard GPS data stream) is plain jane serial, so this would be fairly trivial.

  79. Patent by sn1987 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I havent had a chance to read it, but the patent for the method is 5,757,916

    (http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/srchnum.htm and enter the number)

    From the abstract: "A method and apparatus for authenticating the identity of a remote user entity where the identity of such user entity is authenticated by use of information specific to geodetic location of the user entity but that changes constantly, making "spoofing" the host device extremely difficult. The invention is preferably implemented utilizing satellite positioning technology to produce the identifying information."

  80. Never work on the consumer levels. by Tetrad69 · · Score: 1

    Yes, this may be great for those people who demand data to be "just that more secure", but this would never be popular on the consumer side. For one, their location changes constantly. And the number of changes would be prohibitive for the company to keep on verifying and changing and all that nonsense.

    And two, people don't want to be limited to whatever platform the media companies want for them. The fact that car phones failed, or that people made tapes from vinyl all the time attests to that.

    The only possibility I can think of would be the need for secure live feeds. But then wouldn't the receiving end have to pay a large fee for the equipment to process the data?

  81. Does it still work? by BeBoxer · · Score: 2

    I'm wondering if this idea is even still valid. Assuming it ever was. From the article you linked up:

    The location signature is virtually impossible to forge at the required accuracy. This is because the GPS observations at any given time are essentially unpredictable to high precision due to subtle satellite orbit perturbations, which are unknowable in real-time, and intentional signal instabilities (dithering) imposed by the U.S.

    First off, the SA dithering has been turned off. Presumably that makes GPS signals much more predictable, and could easily trash this whole scheme. I also find it hard to believe that the orbital perturbations of satellites is especially random on the scale which would be measurable. Now that SA has been turned off, most of the remaining error in GPS is due to variations in the temperature and density of the atmosphere between the satellites and the receiver. Since these would often vary between the 'host' and the 'authentication server' that would create wiggle room for a malicious host to guess the right signal. I don't know if it would be possible for them to use the encrypted military signal to correct that error without having the ability to decrypt the military signal. That's an interesting problem.

    The other major weakness I see is the whole idea that the signals are unknowable in real-time. Um, no. A malicious host can use a receiver to measure all the random variations exactly as the authentication server must. I just find it remarkable that anyone who appears to be as smart as Denning could expect this to work. The simple fact is that a malicious attacker will have access to all the same information that the authentication server will use to make it's decision. A hacker can measure the "error" factor in the GPS signal in the exact same manner as the authentication server. They know the equations which the authentication server will use to validate a signal. The transformations you might have to do to the received signal to change the location it represents are going to be simple linear transformations. The math behind GPS is pretty simple really.

    Not to mention this little tidbit: Further, because a signature is invalid after five milliseconds, the attacker cannot spoof the location by replaying an intercepted signature. Well, that will work great for verifying people in the same building. But you're not going to verify telecommuting users who are dialing in, or using DSL, or travelling across the country. Hopefully someday we'll have a network which let's us do things reliably in less than 5ms, but don't hold your breath. Especially since you can only expect light to go about 1000km in fiber during that 5ms.

  82. wow. she's in a bad position by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the article first says

    earning her the moniker of "America's cyberwarrior"

    and then says

    Richard Clarke, are looking into its potential uses against cyberwarriors.

    so great deal for her. she spends all this time developing this technology just to have it used against her.

    either that, or they just like the word 'cyberwarrior'

  83. Secure? by buff_pilot · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Jamming a GPS signal is not that hard - the amount of energy received by the antenna is minimal and can easily be jammed by a source on the ground. Anti-jamming GPS antennas detect jamming and "null" out the signal for that quadrant - just think of an antenna as a pie, all sliced up - if one segment is jammed, that slice of pie's information is discarded until the jamming goes away. The amount of satellites you recieve on your omni-directional GPS antenna will probably be lowered, but at least your signal won't disappear completely. (I don't have the links handy that explain this better)

    "Spoofing" the signal is much more difficult and is damn near impossible..(at least we think...) for a GPS that is getting signals from the satellite constellation. The only true way to spoof a GPS reciever would be to bring it into a closed room and set up a simulated constellation for the reciever to lock on to. Some universities have done this type of research in an effort to provide robots with a sense of location.

    The GPS string that is sent out by the reciever is defined by standards and is in plain text. The RMC, GGA, VTG sentences that are output are enough to give location, altitude, ground speed, etc. To simulate actual reception, all you have to do is playback a recorded text file of a previous reception. Heck, you wouldn't even need to use a recorded file - just make a script/program to spit the data out over the com/usb port. Hence, for this to be secure... The link from the GPS to the crypto black box had better be encrypted... But then how secure is that encryption? If this was a military only device where encryption is relied upon using their crypto devices and keytapes...then this thing could be robust. Once out into the civilian sector, they won't have the same level of encryption.

    What happens if I've got two conference rooms in the same building, both needing access, but both belonging to a different company? Will both companies look the same w/regards to GPS crypto?

    What's the "threshold" that the GPS system will accept as being "close enough"? Here's something to try...this assumes a GPS without the secret crypto keys loaded to get the "best" position. Start up a gps and keep logging the position that it thinks its at. This position will change ever so slightly over time. Reboot the GPS, compare the position on reboot...it will be a little bit different...(depending on how precise you want those co-ordinates)

    My point is that there will have to be some "slop" allowed...some noise level that will need to be allowed into the system.

    These are the things that could be used to exploit it.

    -jim

  84. This is so dumb. by A55M0NKEY · · Score: 2, Informative

    Rig a signal that LOOKS like the coordinates of the correct location and you'll fool the thing into thinking it's in the correct room. Really this is like having 3D cartesian coordinates as the decryption password. Big yawn.

    --

    Eat at Joe's.

  85. Re:Accuracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It was around 100 meters in any direction from your current location. And yes, it was by the U.S. government to prevent people from bombing the White House.

    Why not just jam the GPS signal in the no-fly zone surrounding the white house?

  86. My Copyright Protection Scheme by FFFish · · Score: 2

    I have just developed the best copyright protection scheme, and I hereby lay exclusive claim to it. My patent application is hitting the office today, so that no one can steal it.

    DNA-based decryption. This outdoes the GPS protection by leagues: you'll actually be able to use your copyright licensed material whereever you are in person, rather than being restricted to one location.

    Hah! I'm gonna be sooooo g.d. rich!

    --

    --
    Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
  87. Piggybacking crypto by jfengel · · Score: 2

    If you read her (not particularly technical) 1996 article, it seems that the real core of the security is precisely in the imprecision generated by the satellites:

    The location signature is virtually impossible to forge at the required
    accuracy. This is because the GPS observations at any given time are
    essentially unpredictable to high precision due to subtle satellite
    orbit perturbations, which are unknowable in real-time, and intentional
    signal instabilities (dithering) imposed by the U.S. Department of
    Defense selective availability (SA) security policy. Further, because a
    signature is invalid after five milliseconds, the attacker cannot spoof
    the location by replaying an intercepted signature, particularly when it
    is bound to the message (e.g., through a checksum or digital signature).
    Continuous authentication provides further protection against such
    attacks.


    In other words, they're using differential GPS to suck out the government-applied random numbers in the civilian signal and using that as the basis for crypto.

    In other other words, they're just piggybacking on whatever cryptosystem the government used for obfuscating GPS signals. One which applied when the article was written but no longer holds. So it's geographically limited, and has geolocation as a side effect, but it's not the core of the cryptosystem.

  88. God the power... by KFury · · Score: 3, Informative

    So once all media is constrained by GPS coordinates, the US gov't could selectively deny unfavored nations access to GPS data, rendering all their DVDs, CDs and eBooks useless?

    Sound unlikely? It's interesting that the US is pressuring Europe to shelve its own GPS system.

    Domination through media denial: "You want your mTV? Meet our demands."

  89. Re:Accuracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    there are no long-range missiles that make use of radar. However, many of the short-range missiles make use of doppler.

  90. Re:Accuracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They only removed the restriction when the U.S. military proved that it could completely jam GPS in a geographical area. That's one of the reasons that the EU is looking into their own system.

  91. prior art? by xener · · Score: 2, Informative

    This same idea is used in Greg Egan's SF novel
    'Distress', published in June 1997.

  92. Yes, she was the Clipper Pusher, and more by billstewart · · Score: 2

    Yes, it's the same Dorothy Denning. She was the person who did the initial "Trial Balloon" push for key escrow, and when the NSA's Clipper Chip came out, she led the whitewash study team that published the initial "Yes, Skipjack appears strong" preliminary study and never did publish the "Is The Whole Clipper System Strong, Secure, Easy/Hard to Abuse" study that they were ostensibly tasked to do. It was an intellectually dishonest charade designed to provide PR for the FBI's system by saying "See, the Front Door is made of Very Strong Material, Pay No Attention To The Back Door Flapping Open In The Breeze with the big 'Cops Only' Neon Sign Or the Lack Of Hinge Pins on the Front Door."

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  93. Blocked signals by markmoss · · Score: 2

    What happens when the GPS unit doesn't get a lock on? Cell phones usually do not get a signal inside the big metal building where I work. I think it extremely unlikely that a GPS unit would be able to receive the five (?) different satellites needed for a lock. So does this scheme mean:

    1) That locations like this are permanently locked out? There are going to be some extremely unhappy customers...

    2) That if the GPS can't get a lock, it goes ahead and works anyhow? Aluminum foil will become a circumvention device... ;-)

  94. Oh Great! by Arandir · · Score: 2

    Oh great! Now I can purchase software that only works in my mailbox. If I take it five hundred feet away to my residence it won't work because it's too far away.

    --
    A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
  95. Re:They still haven't fixed.... by Technician · · Score: 2

    The output from a standard GPS'es is plain ASCII. This is to be compatible with published NMEA standards. I copied the GPS output to disk once using a terminal program to fight a speeding ticket. I took records of several runs pacing traffic to court. I showed the runs on a map and marked the top bottom and average speed along several places including the ticket location. I took printouts of the raw data so if argued, it could be checked in court. That couldn't have been done with a propritory interface. The officers agreed with my results with no argurment. The did not dispute my findings. The judge was impressed with my work. I had traveled and was ticketed at slower than the average speed 4 weeks after the speed trap (photo radar) that slowed everyone down. I was able to prove the average speed of the slowest traffic after the slowdown (I passed nobody on these runs therby catching and pacing the slowest person) was more than my ticketed speed. In 4 runs I found someone under 55 in the 45 once 4 weeks after the speed trap. I let the Judge know ECM (radar detector) will be added to fight the highway robery, not to get away with speeding. The ticket was not for driving erraticaly or passing anyone. (Think slow driver in right lane getting the ticket for speeding. Photo radar does that. 56 in a 45 zone 500ft past the change from 55.) I got a ticket because my photo came out un-obscured. (thank God for open GPS interface standards!)
    There is one exception to open standard NMEA output GPS receivers I know about. The Delorme unit. (the cheap one without a display) It is propritory. Avoid it unless you only plan on using it with maps from Delorme. Their map software will accept NMEA, but their reciever will not output it. It's like a MS trick. You can use our hardware, but it works only with our software. Our software will work with your hardware. Sound familiar? That kept me from buying their hardware. I use my (NMEA standard) GPS with Wildflower (now National Geographic) maps and Chicago Maps software as well as a map selection from Delorme. I would have hated a single source closed propritory solution here. It simply would not have met my needs.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  96. Authentication only, and not "normal" GPS by rab · · Score: 2, Informative
    We're not talking about a new form of DVD encryption, but a new form of authentication for real-time communications.

    This system as described in her paper uses two non-standard GPS receivers, one in the server and one in the client. These GPS receivers are used for client authentication by challenging the client to produce a signature that correctly locates the client to an authorized location and local time within a specified time frame.

    The signature is only valid for a 5ms period and corresponds to actual locations of GPS satellites as currently measured by the server.

    1) Server asks: at this GPS time marker, two seconds from now, tell me where you are.

    2) Client and server wait for the GPS clocks to get to the specified point.

    3) Client measures GPS satellite delays, calculates it's position at that moment, builds signature packet (think something like MD-5 digest for this step).

    4) Server measures GPS satellite delays at that same moment and waits for the Client response.

    5) Client transmits signature.

    6) Server receives signature, reads out the location as calculated by the client as well as the digest, applies it's own measurements to the calculated location and verifies the digest was based on actual GPS satellite locations.

    7) Server begins transmission of requested stream.

    This defeats the faraday cage model unless your system is monitoring the GPS constellation and precise enough to replicate their actual locations within the time frame required for signature production and transmission. This is possible, but the parameters are intentionally chosen to defeat this attack and it's likely they can be improved as the tech gets better. All that's needed is that the valid stays ahead of the hackers.

    There's simply no way to plug your GPS receiver simulator into the client and spoof it that way because the inputs needed by the client to produce its signature are the calculated GPS satellite delays, not the actual location provided by "normal" GPS with a NEMA serial interface. You're back to the faraday cage hack, which is probably very expensive.

    Since the goal of security is to make it more expensive to acquire the information than it is worth, the approach here seems sound.

    The encryption used to conceal the stream payload is the same highly effective encryption that everyone else is using and is vulnerable to the same attacks. Assume it's 4096-bit RSA covering 128-bit IDEA or better. The stream is "secure".

    IANASE (security expert), but I do develop network security products for a living...

    Regards, Ross

  97. You make it..... we crack it. by GuNgA-DiN · · Score: 2, Informative

    This one is going to be fun to crack! I love it when the ENTIRE WORLD can join together to solve a technical puzzle like this. Her scheme assumes that I am willing to buy this hardware and use the formats that she recommends. Well fuck her! I'm going to use different formats and different hardware. There has never yet been an "uncrackable" encryption scheme. At some point along the way -- it breaks down and fails. And as soon as we find that point you can kiss this mechanism goodbye! They make the shit... we crack it.

  98. Re:Accuracy by Sinical · · Score: 1

    Oh yes they do use GPS. They (Tomahawk) also use what is known as a DSMAC ( Digital Scene Matching Area Corellator), but definitely GPS is in use.

    Note however, that the update rate of GPS is low, so that as speed increases, you need something else -- missiles have inertial guidance packages that use the GPS data to periodically "sync" their estimated location (from the speed/altitude/acceleration data of the inertial guidance unit) with the GPS data.

    As you've noted, if accuracy is key (and most of the time it is -- but not for Tomahawk, which is subsonic (read: easier to guide with GPS) and carries a *big* warhead)), then you need something for terminal guidance: lasers, IR, millimeter wave, ladar, whatever.

  99. serious flaws by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 3, Informative

    This idea has serious flaws which may undermine the security of the encryption.

    If an attacker has some idea of where the location is the GPS data will unlock, he can test the data agaist a range around that location. Given a GPS resolution of about 10 meters, there are 10,000 possible values per square kilometer. Testing a block of data against an area 10 kilometers on a side gives only a million possible permutations; child's play for modern computers. 100 kilometers on a side is 100 million permutations.

  100. I'm Impressed SPQR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've thought of similar ideas but isn't it a little bit frivilous to reprogam 1000 routers to deposit my favorite *sections* of 'Debbie Duz Dallas?'

  101. Argh, Mate! by SkewlD00d · · Score: 2

    10 paces toward the old oak tree, 40 paces due north.... and thar treasure be!

    --
    The biggest trick the devil pulled was letting lawyers become politicians so they can write the laws.
    1. Re:Argh, Mate! by SkewlD00d · · Score: 2

      My mistake... it was only encrypted squirrel pr0n.

      --
      The biggest trick the devil pulled was letting lawyers become politicians so they can write the laws.
    2. Re:Argh, Mate! by AndroidCat · · Score: 2

      No no no! You have to complete the full Musgrave Ritual before you find the full treasure. (Dr. Watson said so.)

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    3. Re:Argh, Mate! by SkewlD00d · · Score: 2

      AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH! (AH, as in surprise) It's a trap!

      --
      The biggest trick the devil pulled was letting lawyers become politicians so they can write the laws.
  102. Already patents for using GPS for decryption... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Interesting article, when it doesn't mention a couple other patents that are specific about using GPS for decrypting data, with satellite TV mentioned specifically!

    Look at these patents
    5,640,452 ( July 1997 ) Location-sensitive decryption of an encrypted message
    6,317,500 ( November 2001 ) Method and apparatus for location-sensitive decryption of an encrypted signal.

    These look more on the mark for protecting movies, video, whatever...

  103. Its Easy SPQR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Grab the first couple of seconds of the signal &

    decode the red & yellow warning from the F B I

    & decode it. Generate growth sequences for


    your keying variables.

    Sounds like the variables don't

    actually serve any purpose in the coding only authenicating the

    use of those codes.Why not just bypas the

    authenticator straight to the decoder.

  104. Re:Is phase an issue with GPS reception? by EMIce · · Score: 2

    You mention a single source of jamming could be blocked out quite easily and that an isolated environment plus simulated constellation must be set up to trick a receiver. How does GPS test equipment work then? Are antennae set up around the receiver?

    This also raises the question of whether a GPS receiver has multiple antennas that are out of phase with each other. This is the only way I can see the receiver being dependent on and knowing satellite positions(angles mainly) relative it itself, independant of the data stream. I suppose accurate distance could be figured by timing differences between the signals.

    If this is the case, I could see the unit cancelling input at the antennas receiving the strongest signals from the flawed source, as you said a receiver is capable of.

    I had always figured each satellite identifies itself somewhere in the stream and that the receiver knows where satellite X is relative to Y, because they are in a regular orbit. That was a pretty uneducated guess. I still don't understand how GPS can pinpoint someone on land unless it is known exactly where at least one satellite is relative to the ground. Is that in the signal? Where can I do more reading?

  105. This would be great for the enemy as well by complexmath · · Score: 1

    provided someone managed to break the tamperproofing (which Bruce Schneier has pointed out is really a matter of money and time), decrypting the message would implicitly give the MitM the location of the intended recipient. Provided the message could be cracked fairly quickly, this could seriously compromise the safety of the recipients, were the device to be used in a combat situation.

  106. Re:Is phase an issue with GPS reception? by buff_pilot · · Score: 1

    Here are some links to help out with gps:
    (nothing to cosmic, I just did a google search)

    Nulling Antennas:

    Navy
    Mayflower
    Owego

    How GPS Works

    Info about L1, L2, p-code, etc

    Some info on GPS NMEA sentences

    -jim

  107. Good in theory but....... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    GPS signals simply do not work indoors, how do they expect to get around that? Even outdoors in some locations witout a good view of the sky, and with large reflecting surfaces, ie. downtown, ther can be huge errors.

  108. Cities using GPS DRM to ban "obscene" content by Ilan+Volow · · Score: 2

    If this technology is successful, towns, counties, and other such municipalities could block playback of naughty material they deem "obscene".

    And then one day we'll read a newspaper article about some poor bastard getting arrested for transporting a DVD across state lines for purposes of indencency with himself.

    --
    Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
  109. I hereby claim prior art! by bigattichouse · · Score: 1

    There was an article some while back along similar lines, and I posted a comment about how you could use the LAT/Long as a key and then give someone a clue like "read this where I cut my foot when I was 7" ... Knew I should have applied for patent!

    --
    meh
  110. DMCA violation? by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 2

    You realize you could be violating the DMCA by saying that?

    Maybe we should add a new moderation:
    (+1, Illegal).

    ;)

    --
    Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
    1. Re:DMCA violation? by tftp · · Score: 2
      You realize you could be violating the DMCA by saying that?

      Just imagine, a crowd of university graduates in EE cheerfully leaves the ceremony of graduation, and ... everyone gets arrested right there, on the spot, for posession of information that might be used for copyright infringement!

      Or another one, even better. A professor gets arrested in the middle of the class for teaching "too well". But I am afraid, that would not be new. A tyrant always kills educated people, lest they interfere with his plans.