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Review: Yellow Dog Linux 2.2
fabiolrs writes: "imaclinux.net is running a review on Yellow Dog Linux 2.2. They could manage to run it on the iBook. YDG 2.2 is a great distro with KDE 2.2.2, Gnome 1.4, kernel 2.4.18 and Xfree86 4.2.0." Nice to see PPC systems (meaning "Apple," mostly) getting so much attention in the Linux world lately -- Mandrake's 8.2 PPC is also getting close to a release.
sorry people! my fault! yellow dog linux 2.2 actually RUNS on an ibook!
Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
http://www.morroida.com.br
I managed to get YDL 2.0 running on my old Apple clone - A Power Computing Power Tower 220e. I have a G3 upgrade card in it, and it works well. I can't wait to try 2.2, hopefully it will be even better at supporting the weird clone hardware. I should download it soon...
YDL's RPMs make it easy for anyone who's familiar with Redhat or Mandrake to get YDL running on a PPC. Woohoo!
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Random, useless fact: I type in startx entirely with my left hand.
bug ridden (take a look at their yup, update program for example, core software for the distro and it doesn't work right), difficult to install and very poor support is more like it. take a look at the ydl mailing list for lots of complaints. in addition the company has a pretty lousy policy of releasing iso images months after it's available in stores (to get people to buy it). i miss linuxppc, that was a good distro. fortunately debian, suse and mandrake are available.
posted anonymously so i don't get my butt sued .
But everyone knows KDE 3 is the best. I saw it on the poll. It must be true.
That has to do with dual-booting Yellow Dog Linux and OS X? just asking.
What, me worry?
I have used Mandrake on x86 for several years, but two weeks ago I bought myself an iBook (my old Toshiba fell on the floor, RIP) and decided to go with Debian Woody PPC.
;)
;)
To my great surprise it went mostly smooth. I downloaded a minimal CD image and got up and running from there. apt-get install really is as cool as they say
My biggest problem was that by default I had kernel 2.2 something and PMU (APM for Mac) crashed and burned. 2.4 fixed that though.
I really can't say that PPC is so mega-cool, but walking around with an Apple laptop (very rare) with Linux installed (almost as rare) is very geeky
Why is there no link to YDL itself , but instead there is actually a link to Mandrake in the main story?
Patience is a virtue, but I don't have the time - TH
meaning "Apple," mostly
Terrasoft makes some nice PPC hardware in addition to their distro.
irb(main):001:0>
Too bad anyone with $2000 (back in 1997) worth of powerbook 1400 rubble liing around are STILL screwed. Check out the hw-support
Oh well...there's always other options:
Apokalypse linux
MachTen
"It was penguin lust...at its worst." --someone
I'd try Yellow Dog on my TiBook, but they appear to be one of those companies who don't release ISO's to their distribution until they're virtually obsolete.
It's their right, but not a very good practice to try and win over new customers who don't want to spend $$$ to test out a new distribution.
Thankfully, I was able to get Debian installed. Now only if I could figure out how to boot it properly from OpenFirmware. The steps in the recent O'reilly article didn't work for me.
Not to be mean, but how about Macs without OS X support?
To be fair, it seems weird for the developers to be playing with *modern* Macs, instead of 6 year old Macs, but hey, the new iBook is cool.
GPL Deconstructed
I really don't get the appeal of Linux on Mac (or PPC more generally). Sure, I can understand running linux on older macs, but for any OSX capable computer, what's the point? I can't think of anything you can do in linux but can't do in OSX, and MANY things you cannot.
oh, it's definitely sexier. Maybe not exactly interesting, but sexy.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
On Debian & iBook
Best Slashdot Co
Have you checked here? They seem to have at least some success getting the 1400 to work.
I use my Powerbook and have to say that yes it is nice, but no it is not nice.
./configure and autoconf properly to take into account a PowerPc platform. Many times I get platform not support or it simply does not compile. Case in point, Anjuta, or PNET. Sure it could be fixed with a bunch of tweaks, but it gets my goat that I need to tweak at all!!!
It is nice in the sense that the notebook works well. But it is a major headache to get software to work.
While some folks may say, it is LINUX and therefore it will work, that is a figment of the imagination.
Firstly when using closed software people only say Linux. When I mention PowerPC they say no problem if it is Linux it works. But then I mention it is not Intel and they say "oh, sorry, but it works on Intel".
Secondly when using open source many people do not setup the
The only software that has worked without problem whatsoever are the bigger projects (Apache, Perl, etc) and Java. I am amazed at how well Java moves from Windows, Linux Intel and Linux PowerPC.
My conclusion is that even Open Source and closed source are as arrogant about non-intel platforms.
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
I haven't tried the new Yellow Dog, but a couple weeks ago I installed Debian unstable (closely following Branden Robinson's instructions) along with Benjamin Herrenschmidts 2.4.18 kernel on my new ibook (600MHz, 384MB, CD-RW/DVD-ROM, Airport wireless) and am extremely impressed about how everything works (all except the modem - which I never use anyways). DVDs (with xine), CD burning, wireless, sound, hardware accelerated 3D, built in ethernet, power management -- all for ~$2000 US. And Linux seems way more snappy than OSX. This is my first Mac, but if they work this well with Linux in the future, it may not be my last...
I've been using YDL on a G3 (Beige) for some 2 years. It's great as a server, but not-so-swell as a desktop solution. Outside of powe routages that exceed the UPS battery, it almost NEVER goes down. Runs as a webserver, mail server, AFP/AppleShare server, SAMBA, et. al. Over 100 users. init level 3 text log in is all I need. However, the desktop environment isn't nearly as robust and flexible as the Intel distros. In short: Use the right tool for the right job. If you want to use linux as a desktop solution, use Intel hardware--it's alot cheaper and supported globally. If you're looking for a rock-solid server that takes advantage of the PPC, YDL is the most stable linux server I've every seen. ...just my 2 cents...
catdevnull > stdout
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
Are there any good linux distros that work on older PPC hardware?
_ __
There were a couple of posts complaining that PPC distros only run on the latest and greatest stuff.
Are there any PPC Linux distros that break this mould.
Inquiring minds and all that stuff...
I got a friend with an old mac that thinks its time to try linux.
_______________________________________________
ACK
How about .... people who don't like OS X but have a Mac? They do exist you know
A lot of people on here seem to think that Linux for the Mac is only for older machines. Not true.
I've got YDL 2.1 running on a 7200/120 at home - the first PPC mac with PCI slots. Not a new beast by any means. Hell, the BSDs don't even support PPC machines this old.
And I'm looking at installing it on a 6500 as well, which isn't exactly showroom-fresh.
Hopefully this will stem some of the "just run OS X" tide...
--saint
I received my YDL 2.2 CDs the same day this was last referenced on Slashdot and posted a rant about the problems I had installing it on a brand new Power Mac G4. The next day, one of their support guys e-mailed me. After a couple of e-mails, I was up and running.
I was really impressed with Terra Soft's support for scanning Slashdot for comments by little whiners like myself and actually giving me a hand. I had mad no effort to understand the problem when I posted my rant but yet this guy went out of his way to help me. I'm certainly not that forgiving to my customers, even though they've paid for my help.
After resolving my install problem, I've been very happy with the distro. I'm planning on using this for the basis for future development at my company.
Kudos to Terra Soft!
Of course PowerPC is more interesting CPU than x86! Does x86 have anything like the assembly instruction "eieio"?
I should have 70 BriQs today or tommorow sans drivebay housing. I'm pretty dissapointed with the per-node pricing of Black Lab Linux (by the same folks).
I'm thinking at the moment that I'll netboot Debian and install my own clustering libraries and tools, since as far as I can tell, everything included in Black Lab is available elsewhere except their graphical cluster management tools.
Too bad they didn't see fit to GPL them and just make money on their rather expensive BriQ's (We paid $1500/per for G4s) before Black Lab was released.
Does anyone have any experience with these? Any tips?
I am getting a blue G3 to play with, it will probably never see X and will mostly do some number crunching and web serving - what's the best distro to go with? As I understand it, the major ones for PPC right now are YDL and Mandrake (and I believe RedHat is coming out with something) - anyone have any comparative experiences on the non-desktop side of things?
sic transit gloria mundi
Er, as you would probably have noticed if you'd read the page you'd linked to, that is a port for computers using the 68000 series of processors from Motorola. My post was concerning PPC machines, a different processor family entirely.
The early macs are supported by the mac68k ports of Net and OpenBSD. The later ones (post-601) are supported by the PPC builds. But the 6100, 7100, 8100, and 7200 are all orphaned, so far as BSD is concerned.
Perhaps you ought to've looked harder.
--saint
It is a bit of arrogance. And if you mention that a Linux developer can reach 99.x% of the developers by targeting x86 then you are using the same argument as Microsoft. And if I look at the stats then 99.x% of the desktops use Windows hence it would not make sense for me to target Linux? Therefore using that logic LINUX is dead in the water! We might as well all jump to Microsoft!
I am not trying to be sarcastic or pedandic. I am just using the argument that you gave me.
I am always willing to build the apps myself. But the problem is that most of the folks simply choose to ignore me. Ok I will admit that there was a really helpful person on the Anjuta mailing list. But that was clearly the exception. What I would like is that people just think a bit more than simply x86.
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
I really can't say that PPC is so mega-cool, but walking around with an Apple laptop (very rare)
You must not go to the same coffee shops I do. At the ones I hang out, you'd think the 90% marketshare belonged to Apple. I guess wintel users don't find their 1 hour battery life too useful.
And that is one of the (many) mega-cool PPC things--massive battery life. Don't know what kind of power management the Linux distros have, though.
Lies about crimes
I'm also curious as to how Linux apps run on OSX since I'm considering a new computer purchase.
Standard Linux binaries will not run on OS X, because Linux binaries assume x86, X and some WM. However, OS X really is a Unix, so installing X, hacking and a compile should work. /. types are already doing this and OS X binaries are starting to appear.
However, you may find you don't want to run standard Linux apps after your OS X purchase. Very nice commercial apps already exist for OS X, and the shareware community is mature and strong. And some of the best Unix apps have already been ported to use Apple APIs.
Lies about crimes
I don't own a mac of any kind though an ibook is on the list of things to get so linux ppc distros are of some interest. I've heard of YDL for some time now and I have to say I'm rather disappointed. There aren't that many macs they need to test on. unlike the pc world the hardware for a mac is mostly unchanging from one machine to the next. why can't they get something as simple as the proper sound output driver correct?
no offense, I'm not distro maintainer but that just seems like an easy one.
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They certainly do exist. The speed difference between OS9.2.1 and OSX is astonishing. The thing is, most of the people that I know that have Macs and don't like OSX are graphic designers that must use Photoshop (which until recently was not OSX compatible) and Quark (which for some reason was just updated but is not OSX compatible). I don't think these people (graphic designers!+*nix =ouch!) are candidates for a *nix distro of any kind though.
Do a google search before posting.
I used YDL when I first got my TiBook. I had to, because I needed 802.11 support and Apple didn't support Orinoco. I switched because I needed Firewire more than I needed Orinoco. My experiences:
YDL: Works as well as any mainstream Linux distribution. Yup works, by some definition of "works". Better still, Ximian's stuff builds from SRPMS, and Ximian now explicitly supports them with binaries. Not hard to get current, buildable kernel source, and FreeSWAN works nicely for IPsec. The (major) negative is that Firewire support blows, and it is pointless to buy hard drives that don't come in Firewire enclosures. When I left YDL, SBP2 drivers didn't work at all. The (minor) negative is that companies don't distribute closed-source binaries for YDL, and they do for X86 Linux.
OSX 10.1: A dream; xterms, xemacs, and Adobe Illustrator on the same screen. Rootless XFree86, transparent anything, beautiful user interface, antialiasing. It's faster than Linux for applications and slower for tools. The one (big) negative is that there is no credible IPsec or VPN support. A minor negative is that you can't keep current with BOTH the dev kernel AND Apple's updates.
I'm on OSX 10.1.3 now and I'm not looking back. However, I can understand why people want PPC Linux, if they already simply use Linux for everything and want good portable environments. It's good to hear that YDL continues to move forward.
Take a look at the Fink project.
They're going a great job of porting a whole bunch of apps across to OS X, and they use apt too!
Troll.
Oh, and when you find a better jukebox program than iTunes let me know, 'kay?
/Brian
I have $100 just waiting to be donated to the first PPC Linux team that produces something that works properly on my iBook. Seriously. No one seems to want it.
In Yellow Dog 2.1, I followed their Airport setup instructions to the letter, but it does not work. Their "YUP" update tool does not work. Sound did not work. From the way the article reads, it sounds like 2.2 is more of the same, so why bother?
I'm also following the Mandrake 8.2 PPC beta process with much interest. As far as I can tell, there is ONE GUY - Stewart - working on it. He's doing some great things, but frankly, it's clear that he's overwhelmed. For example, my iBook2 cannot get IPs via DHCP over either the built in ethernet or the wireless inteface. Nobody knows why. Modem works, but only after you tweak the timout values in the dialer to be certain values. How would anyone know that? It should be done by the installer if the installation platform is the iBook!
I wish that these folks would work on getting the CORE stuff working, and working well, before they start including 2000 packages on the CDs. I can download Apache, MySQL, and 18 text editors later - right now, I need a working network connection!
The "gold standard", as far as I'm concerned, is RedHat 7.2 on a Dell Inspiron. Everything worked, and I mean EVERYTHING. No tweaking, no kernel upgrade, no command line garbage. Ethernet, video, mouse, keyboard, everything. So that's what I expect, but no PPC vendor has delivered it yet.
Given the very limited hardware a PPC vendor must support, I just expect it to work. It doesn't.
Something is wrong with that picture. Obviously ripping and encoding is going to be CPU intensive - playback should not be. One of the first things I erased from my iBook was iTunes, for exactly this reason.
iTunes is not exactly the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Okay, so I don't pay that much attention to processor load. I'm mostly just looking at the features, ease of use, etc. and the fact that it's free. I think, however, that CPU load isn't that much of an issue on the desktop unless you're doing something else processor-intensive.
/Brian
Oh, wait, I forgot. We're still in the post-dotbomb days of "CHOICE IS BAD" and it's time to hail MS for helping keep the geriatric x86 line around.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Your comment shows that your are not a developer. It's much easier to develop on a 500 MHz machine than on a 100 MHz machine. Less time to compile. Usually less time to reboot if the system crashes. Less time between the idea and the implementation. And you don't necessarily have to support all new hardware - you don't need the new soundcard to compile stuff.
What, you mean develop on the fastest Mac, test on the slowest Mac?
This is Linux here! You can code on a fast *or* slow Mac, thanks to NFS, X, and vi or emacs, and compile on the fastest platform available.
Essentially the point being you can own 'the fastest' Mac to do your compiling and such, but you don't actually 'need' to test it on the highest end hardware because you really want to target the lowest end hardware, meaning you should be running, writing code, and using lowest 'mean' available hardware, even if you use the highest end for compilation purposes.
GPL Deconstructed
I have a Quadra 660 AV sitting in the closet collecting dust. I was wondering if anyone knew of a linux distro for an 040 mac and could point me in the right direction.
Debian would be a good choice. I ran it briefly on a Quadra, and the performance was pretty good for a machine of that era.
So far as I know, they're the only native-English distro for m68k.
(You might want to read this page as well -- it's a little summary I wrote for installing another OS on a Mac with limited disk space.)
--saint
Interesting. OS X minimal workload at 600 MHz I get around 5 hours. Using it hard (constant mp3 decoding, drive and cd usage) I get around 3.5 hrs (fav coffee shop just got Airport so will report back on that).
I have 5 mouse buttons on my iBook. They are even named. Mouse button, Control, Option, Command, and Shift.
Lies about crimes