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dot.com Bust Gotcha Down? Try the Gubmint!
dsoltesz writes "This coming week is the Government's first Virtual IT Job Fair. A number of agencies are participating, including NASA, the Smithsonian, and the National Gallery of Art. While government jobs aren't exactly the highest paying in the nation, IT positions do rate in a special pay category (see tables 999A-F depending on where you want to work). The online job fair lasts from April 22 to 26, and hopes to fill 230 positions. Here's a quick list of IT Series 2210 specialties, or if you want a little light reading, try the 155 page, 1.7 MB detailed spec."
Wow, way to slashdot the poor saps who found the site on their own and were actually hoping for a shot at a job...
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Today's Top Deals
Now 30,000 slashdot readers in search of jobs will apply for these 300 jobs. ::Sigh::
The beauty about gov jobs is that first, there is some stability, second, it is hard to get fired, unless youre a complete dumbass, and last, you have a chance to "move up". cons: bad pay, youre working for the "man". dam()
Useless sig.
No offense, but since when does a posting for 200-odd IT jobs qualify as a decent news item? Heck, most state govt's are looking for IT people every day.
What's next, McDonalds on 4th St needs 3 new fry cooks?
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Today's Top Deals
Now, having to copy a number from the page into their own form is dumb enough. But worse, the number is rejected with "This vacancy is not currently open." Bozos.
... in the private sector, but now you too can have your very own civil service job! (Disclaimer- does not include complimentary Krispy Kremes or roller hockey on lunch breaks. May require excessive time spent in dimly-lit basement cubes or former janitorial closets.)
Maybe i will make this my own little cause.
Put the link for the main story in the HEADING.
Maybe its just konqueror with javascript,java, and cookies turned off. Don't know. Don't care.
But.
I am tired of having to highlight the whole section just to find out that there are 10 links to every different aspect of the main story.
230 jobs
230,000 applicants
Hooray!
from what I've seen/read, who'd want to live/work in the DC area? Crime, protesters, crack-smoking mayors, and in the 'burbs, exceptionally high real estate prices and traffic problems. My 25-minute drive to work sucks enough, why would I want an hour-long commute?
Somebody please tell me I'm wrong here.
A guy walks in to apply to a government job. Fills out the application, and then is taken to a room by an interviewer.
The interviewer says "hmm, so do you have any special needs or disabilities before we hire you?"
The guy says "Well, it's kinda embarassing, but I lost my testicles in a grenade explosion when I was in the military."
"Hmmmm..." says the interviewer, pausing a minute and flipping through papers. "Looks great. You start Monday, your hours are 11am to 5pm. Congratulations!"
"But I thought government workers start at 9am?" asks the guy, with a puzzled look on his face.
The interviewer replies "Well, normally I'd put you on normal work hours, but since you lost your testicles, you won't be sitting there scratching 'em for 2 or 3 hours a day bored and trying to figure out what to do."
It's sure better paid than open source development. :-)
Oh shut your mouth. Business does not exist for the sole purpose of keeping you employed. They exist to profit from selling products. Should they need you they will hire you. During times of slow sales all comapnies layoff and stop hiring. You want a job? Start buying some stuff.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
Before you take a job with the government, consider that you will become one of "them", and you will no longer be able to ridicule government employees in your /. posts without becoming a hypocrite.
If bashing bureaucrats means alot to you (and it
does seem to mean alot to many people here,
judging from their posts), you should probably
skip this opportunity.
This is a VERY short list.
Ya Sure! You Betcha!, The_THOMAS
Dear Slashdot,
Why should I pay for a subscription when the code can't even prevent these annoying page lengtheners? Seriously, why can't you fix this? Also, why is it if I mark someone as a "foe", I can still see their posts? What is the use?
Thanks for your time,
A Faithful (but annoyed) reader
By 'First', I'm hoping they make this an annual thing, so when it's time for me to graduate I can apply for a job then.
Who cares about low pay? Benefits and stable job are all I need... And what're the odds the government will try to claim my hobby programming as their own IP?
[o]_O
Most (ca 95%) of the government tech jobs open are in defense-related areas and with the DoD being the biggest poster of jobs. If you are out in the boondocks (more than 100 miles from DC) with no big military base around, not much chance of a good local job with the feds for you.
Note that this job fair is for applicants around DC or for applicants who figure that they can relocate anywhere and often.
The Bush Administration is also trying to cut government employment by using a process called "competitive sourcing", because it is a good way of replacing unionized federal employees with non-union private sector wage earners. (Union employees seem to vote Democratic all the time, you know.) Competitive sourcing goes back over 40 years, but it is now being cranked up more aggressively. Competitive sourcing means that government employees have to write up their own jobs as if they were up for bids, because they are, and then bid on them in competition with private contractors. About half the time the private contractors win and the government employees lose their jobs or get offered a new job at a different "location nationwide". Currently, the entire Interior Department is scheduled to go through competive sourcing procedures over the next two years, so not all federal government jobs come with the job security that many people associate with joining a bureaucracy.
In addition, the old "double dip" benefits to those who spent part of their career in the government and part in private industry (being covered by and getting separate pensions from both Civil Service retirement and Social Security) have been eliminated by coordinating the benefits from the two plans. You might know some retirees who are very happily receiving the double dip, but it doesn't happen anymore.
Lousy pay, some benefits, but completely unsatisfying work.
Any innovation or creativity is frowned upon by the bureaucracy, projects get cancled, *reprioritized*, etc, not at the whim of your pointy-haired boss, but at the whim of politicians.
Bleh, work for a small-medium sized company where you can see tangible results, and actually feel like you're doing something useful with your life.
the pay scales on the site are a joke.
no wonder then that the feds are such a
bumbling batch of baby-burners!
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
Look at the charts. They go by Step 1, Step 2++ on down the line. Yeah, gov't employees dont make the most $ in the world, but contractors do ok. Up around my area (Ft. Meade) a unix admin goes in between $60-80k+ a year.
I know you're trying to make it sound like we're at tragic amounts of unemployment but its just not the case. The national unemployment rate is still under 6%, at last projection it was actually at 5.5%, and the tech sector unemployment rate is lower still. Be that as it may, in tough times its HARDER TO GET HIRED. Stop expecting jobs to be handed to you simply because you are qualified. What part of "Should they need you they will hire you" did you not understand?
For your friend who couldn't get the bookstore job, he told them too much. You don't tell a friggin retail manager that you have all those fancy degrees that obviously not only will make him/her feel stupid, but will highlight that you are only taking this job to pay the bills and absolutely WILL jump ship when times get better.
"Businesses have no responsibility anymore. Just hire and fire whenever they feel like it. Pay a non-living wage. Work people 60 hours a week. Cut benefits. Increase overtime (on salary of course) and make people as miserable as possible while they are there... until they are fired.
This isn't just one opinion. There are thousands of people out there, many of which have been sitting unemployed for OVER A YEAR NOW. The economy is recovering. WHERE'S THE JOBS? NEWSFLASH: THERE AREN'T ANY."
Of course there are thousands of people out there who have been unemployed for a while. WE ARE A NATION OF 280 MILLION PEOPLE, HELLO!??!!?. As for corporate responsibility, just take a look over in Europe. Most European nations have strict rules/laws against massive layoffs, the unions are strong and powerful and the simple process of firing someone can be arduous at best. The result? Nearly every European has a higher rate of unemployment vs. the US. Double digit unemployment. Is that what you want? Companies that have the flexibility to contract or expand at will lead to nimble industries. Nimble industries lead to healthy and more robust economies, economies such as the one the United States has.
Now I am sorry you don't have a job. But the sky is not falling. Either change your tactice, or change your profession/field/industry, whatever. Do what you need to do to survive and when you get lucky once again this time set yourself up so that you will be financially independent sooner than later, because I am betting that at one time you had a nice phat paying techie job yet handled the money in perhaps not the most responsible mannner.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
Nice troll.
Plenty of people have jobs
Plenty of people are living hand-to-mouth, have no savings, own nothing and are two paychecks away from being broke.
Plenty of people are underemployed, have nothing to do most of the day, and are tormented by management on purpose to get them to quit.
Plenty of people try to work hard and do a good job and get fired anyway.
Plenty of people have to choose between child care and medical insurance.
Plenty of people have to spend their retirement account on food.
Plenty of people have no meaningful contribution to their jobs.
Plenty of people spend the majority of their work day in unproductive meetings.
Plenty of people have to allow the company to control every moment of their workday, and attempt to control every moment of their off-time.
Plenty of people lose those jobs when management decides to reorganize the paradigms.
Plenty of people can't afford a house, ever.
Plenty of people can't afford to raise a family.
Plenty of people have watched their unemployment run out and the phone never rings.
Plenty of people have to lie in order to get hired.
Plenty of people have given up on ever finding another job, anywhere.
Yes, of course. All those thousands of people. It's all them. It's NEVER the fault of the incompetent people doing the hiring. It's never the fault of the businesses. They can do no wrong. They are blameless in their pursuit of profits.
Always better to blame anyone who complains than to fix the problem.
Government HR generally look at easy-to-quantify things like grades and amount of scholarships won, so they can back up why they hired people. If you have these, chances are you'll be looking at grad school and riding a scholarship to an advanced degree, not looking for $25k/year doing mind-numbing work.
FREE CHEESE
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
*slightly OT*
:)
I guess I am glad that I decided that computing was going to be my chosen vocation, whilst I was at school - just to see things like this career drive by the US Government proves that there is still a great demand for techie type people.
If you are seriously into computers & IT, and you have a few thousand dollars to spend on certified training, you can pretty much go anywhere you like.
I'm currently studying my way through a Cisco CCNA (two years of night school!) - I know that once that is complete, I should be able to walk into a $35,000+ job - and the beauty of actually being a computer geek is that I love the job that I do. Its working out pretty well
"Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
Some government jobs are great problem is a lot require Top Secret clearance which can be extremely difficult to obtain.
Government work is the stuff of nightmares except to one two types of people. First is the one that wants nothing more in life then just to cruise through and absorb a paycheck. The other is the one that wants nothing more than to absorb everything, gain power and position and other self serving desires. "Hard worker" in the government is another name for someone that is actively looking for a non-government job. (meaning they tried and tried but gave up on ever being able to apply their talents and drive to their work while their decision makers foul everything up).
I think our Founding Fathers knew something about this... that power with no responsibility just accelerates the axiom of 'absolute power corrupts absolutely.' The worst thing of all is how people don't care. Not that they dont care about them funding this crap, or seeing the results of said crap. Rather, they just prefer to blindly sit by and ignore all aspects of reality that they find distastful and therefore unconfortable. YAY APATHY!
You're so freeking picky about a job.
I've got 3 years of Linux/Perl experience, and I want a job in the midwest that pays $93,000 per year.
Well, son, you're worth less than half that if you move to a major city.
Why don't you work on something with real experience and then work up?
I mean, I hate ASP and VB work as much as the next guy BUT ITS THIS STUFF THAT PAYS THE BILLS!
I mean, really. You act like a kid, you get treated like one.
NEXT!
nice post lol
I'm a work study for the VA and work in a VA Medical Center...We've got some nurses who have made mistakes that have nearly killed patients, yet they still work there. As one nurse put it, it takes an act of God AND an act of Congress to get fired from the government...And that whole seperation of church and state thing makes it a bit hard for the two to get together.
Anyways. Let's see here, what's my experience with the computer people at my work...I need computer access to do my job, so I walk down to the building the computer people are in, and say I need access. They tell me I absolutely have to make an appointment and that I have to call a certain person's extension to do so. So I call that extension, leave a message with my name and phone number. I wait two days, nada. I call again. I end up calling 10 times in two weeks. NOTHING. My supervisor is getting pretty annoyed by now at having to let me use the computer while it's her logged in, and calls over to that extension and FINALLY gets a real person. She says my full name and how I need computer access NOW. The computer person says that she gave me computer access a week and a half ago. I say that if she did, she certainly didn't tell ME about it. Turns out the clueless person had given another person who had the same first name computer access, and didn't bother to see if the person calling (after she had supposedly given access to that person) had the same last name as the person who she'd given access to. Ugh.
-Jenn
...and I ain't got it this month. Why? Cause I can't get a damn job. I'd work for FREE at this point...even the not-for-profits aren't accepting help these days. Somebody get me my Atari controller and a Sam Adams...looks like another thrilling day here at el ranchero unemployo...(I'm not bitter, but my beer is).
Man, you sound really arrogant. Like your degree or experience entitles you to live a life of luxury.
Quit complaining and get on with your life. While you sit here bitching and moaning, other people are grabbing the opportunities you're too myopic to see.
Let me see if I got this straight... private sector (which generates taxes to pay government, BTW) is having a bust, yet there are now MORE job openings in the government?
What is wrong with this picture?
Who is paying for all these new bodies?
Does anyone else see this as being a bit scary?
Look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics page and see what the unemployment rate is. As of March 2002 , it was 5.7%. From 1974 through 1988, the US unemployment rate did not fall below 5.6%. 14 years. That's the job market I came into when I got out of college. The 'recession' of the early 90's wasn't one; it was merely a pause in the boom times.
Depending on who you listen to, it may even get worse before it gets better. So my only advice would be to hang in there and keep printing those resumes, and be prepared to ride this recession out; don't be discouraged because nobody wants your previously marketable skills, all that gets thrown out the window when times are like this.
I'd have a personalized plate on my car, but "toxic bachelor" won't fit into 7 letters.
One thing that I do not understand is -
Why _searching_ for a job while there are LOTS OF CHANCES that you can create YOUR OWN JOB ?
I mean, the slashdotters who are "unemployed" due to the "dot_com_bust" are people who have the SKILLS 99.999% of the human race don't have - in other words, they are TECHIES, right ?
Now, why waiting for someone to employ you, or even searching for a job, while THERE ARE LOTS OF THINGS you can do now !
For instance - CREATING YOUR OWN JOB !
Please do not try to think like the rest of the human population - you are NOT those run-of-the-mill, garden-variety type - you are the one who possess the SKILLS to create.
Why don't you utilize your skill to CREATE your own job ?
If you are skilled in doing 3d animation, for example, instead of waiting for the movie industry or whoever to employ you as their animator, you can START creating VIBRANT ANIMATION, in EXCITING SEQUENCES, share the thing with the world, and you will see people flock to what you have to offer, and they WILL offer you lots of options - including, but not limited to, STARTING YOUR OWN ANIMATION FACTORY !
The above is just an example.
I am speaking from experience here. I'm in the field - the tech field - since early '80s. First I was involved with programming - it was hot then - and when uni started to churn out millions of programming wannabes, I branch into graphics, and when there's too much competitions, I then went into dot-com, and when that's busted, I went into consultation, and so on and so forth.
Don't just wait for others to employ you. EMPLOY YOUR OWN SKILL and CREATE YOUR OWN CAREER !
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
I even tried the same search in several salary categories, and the same one came up under three of them, but it was the same ONE job. Sure looks like the gubmint is a Microsoft shop.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Do I think the world owes me a living? No. Do I think that a job will just fall off a tree and land in my lap? No. And I am heading to school in the fall so as to beef my resume even further, so it isn't like I'm taking this recession lying down. That said..
God damn human nature which leads to overinflated expectations that propels an entire industry to write checks it's productivity can't cash. But even so, why is it the most technical of people who get the shaft first? I'll answer my own question: We've a lack of common sense, and we're the people that often allow business to function in the first place, so if a business is cutting back, it just doesn't need so many people writing applications/installing hardware/maintaining hardware. Exactly like a factory: Production cuts back, cut workers, cut a few HR folks, but keep the Admin blokes because you'll need those when you ramp up again.
Like it or not, we're producers, and so when production halts, we hit the bricks.
So, if I want to stop worrying about feeding myself and raising a family (should I choose), I need to become a Professional. Like a plumber, or an electrician, or a doctor, or a civil engineer, or a financial adviser, or a lawyer. Something that everyone always needs. You know, all those boring jobs that seem to make up the backbone of our society. Feh.
Life fucking sucks at times. Perhaps my degree seeking adventure shall go long-term.. 'Dr. Fixer, I presume..'
"Avast! Prepare for the rodgering!" THWACK! "Arrr.. me nards.."
isn't government wonderful.. they always have more money they can pull out of our pockets.. or in Bush's case, our children's pockets :-D
Reading some of these posts is depressing. I'm currently finishing up my M.S. in Computer Science. I've got an Electrical Engineering degree and 2 years of work experience for a Fortune 50 company. Is it that bad out there? Are there people educated similarly to me who can't find a job? And to think I left a great job to go back to school....I'm starting to regret that decision after reading these posts! Someone tell me it isn't true!!
by working for the government instead of actually producing something which improves productivity.
I am a GS5 now in one of those IT jobs. You don't go through the steps to the right. You go down until you are a GS12. 6 months -> GS7, then yearly 9,11,12. Then promotions are compteditive.
All economic systems ultimately fail under their own weight. "Capitalism" too. (And, like, only if the US were remotely Capitalist). The holy grail that is a "fair" system can't exist because you still need government to maintain order, and members of government soon learn they have the "gun", and can use it to their personal enrichment.
The game always ends.
Traditionally, at least one generation is lost to poverty before the situation can be changed. Sometimes the change is revolution, sometimes it is massive depression. It is never pretty, it has never been "fair", and the problem children are rarely the ones to pay for their mistakes/greed.
Just to show how hard this can be I'll give some fairly sound ideas, and I'll let you figure out the likelhood they'd ever see the light of day...
1) A 100% death tax on passing value to younger generations. Leave it all to your wife, mother, sig. other, but NOT your kids. If your kids are so "worthy" to wield monitary power in a "Capitalist" world; then they should be bright enough to create their own businesses, and do it without mommy and daddy's help.
2) One has to face the fact in "Capitalism" that one human is capable of contributing only so much to any cause. The system isn't designed to compensate contribution anyway, it is more a lottery of timing and skills in duplicit behavior. Early programmer's weren't duplicit, and were before their time. Gate's was both duplicit, and had a situation handed to him ready for exploitation. Gates won the grail, the contributors went uncompensated. So, you have to assume the rich have help, that help should have been paid for and usually is not. Everything one attained to spite that help was a taking, and should be confiscated. So, Something like a 100% tax on net worth over $X, maybe $500 million.
3) Wealth is defined in the context of the socity that creates it. Gates isn't worth X because the US functions like Afghanistan. Nor did Gates pay to establish the US to function as it does. So, Gates should pay taxes based on the fact his 40 billion is, in fact, "owed" to the population that did pay to build the US. Forget "Income tax", the only fair tax is one progressive system based on total "net worth".
Get the idea? Meaningful change does not happen until "life as we know it" comes to an end. You really can't even engage in the conversation.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Thats this month's unemployment figures. The current rate for March 2002 is 5.7% unemployment nationwide.
When I said they would hire you, I said "should they need you". Thats the important part. If they aren't hiring you, then THEY DON'T NEED YOU. Your degree and experience are irrelevant. You feel they entitle you to something. Too bad. You also say companies shouldn't pull the rug out from under a man's feet who is providing for his family and doing a good job. Well anything else you wanna dictate to the business world? Let me review something for you; Simply being a good worker and doing whats expected of you as a family man, husband or father is not enough. If the company no longer needs you, then they no longer need you. Thats how it works. Am I supposed to buy your company's products because you need a paycheck? Because thats what it comes down to. If customers slow down in their buying, then companies contract in the workforce to cut down on costs until the economy picks up again. None of this is beyond the mose RUDIMENTARY of economics. There's no "rights or wrongs" here just life. Deal with it.
You say you got eight years in your chosen profession that you don't want to throw away? Tough shit. Some people have 15, 20, 30 years in their various professions and when those professions no longer pay off they have to change careers/fields as well. You do what you have to do to survive, and to make sure your family survives. If that means you have to go back to night school to get training in another field be it commercial trucking, waste management, transportation...etc whatever then you do so. You either do it or starve/go homeless, its up to you really. Sounds like you need a big heaping serving of humble pie.
Alright, maybe you didn't have it good during the good times. I'll give you that. But how have you managed your life since you left school? When did you decide to have kids? How much money did you have in the bank when you made that choice? Did you really expect your job to be there until you retire? I was born in 1980 and even I long ago figured out that no one remains in the same job for 25 years anymore. Why is this news to you?
You keep saying its business's fault for this situation. You make it sound like if only they didn't fire anyone, everything would be alright. Do you think companies have unlimited amounts of money? You want them to keep everyone employed even during economic downturns just to keep you in a good situation. Well thats great. What are you going to do when the entire corporation goes out of business because it was unable to cut costs when it needed to? Now instead of laying off a few hundred or a few thousand, the entire workforce now has to look for new jobs. Some comanies employ hundreds of thousands of people. Would you like to see 200,000 out of work just because no one wanted them to lay off 30,000 a year or two ago? THIS IS WHY COMPANIES LAY OFF WHEN BUSINESS SLOWS DOWN. TO STAY IN BUSINESS. Of course the shareholders and top executives continue to make a ton of money. But thats largely irrelevant. There's no point to being a shareholder or executive unless there's a large financial benefit in return. Their job is to keep the company running in the long run and that means making difficult and sometimes unpopular decisions in the short term. For the regular joe/worker bee, thats TOUGH SHIT, deal.
Now I'll respond to some of the points you made in another posting that wasn't directed to me but I saw it anyway.
It sounds like you believed in some kind of strange dream that goes like this: 'Study hard in school and graduate, get good job that will be around for my entire career while raising family in stable neighborhood, retire after 25-30 years with wonderful pension, die happy after sending all kids to college with your own money.' Am I close to what your original dream was? Or far off base? Well in any case, Men Plan GAWD Laughs! Have you never heard of economic volitility? Did you not notice there was a tech stock bubble going on for the last 5 years? Did you do anything to get ready? Do you somehow find the concept of the gentrification of neighborhoods new? I don't know why, its been going on since time began. People get better jobs they move to better neighborhoods, then others lose their jobs and have to move to worse ones. Tax bases get disrupted. Life goes on.
Now you want some honest advice? Get out of the technology sector. I don't think you have the stamina or will for it. You don't even sound emotionally stable. The technology sector is a constant treadmill. There's new products and technologies coming down the pipeline every 6 to 12 months and you've got to at the very least decided if they are worth learning and if so, you've got to set aside the time. All the while you've got to maintain your level of performance at your job and in your family life. Not everyone can do it. Just because you can get a degree in the field does not mean you're up to it. There are easier ways to make money in the world. Techonology can be a hobby for you, you never have to leave it completley. But no one said you have to kill yourself to stay in it. Think about it before posting a response. Think long and hard.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
One of the real problems these days is that the good jobs (i.e. UNIX, R&D and such) need at least a Secret Security Clearance. And since 9-11 you better already have one if you want to get any of the good jobs. I know an organization looking for a boat load of UNIX & WinXX admin/developers and Network/Security people. Great pay but you better already have that clearance.
--
If I actually could spell I'd have spelled it right in the first place.
But Taco Cowboy has a good point. A software company costs about $75 to start (that's the corporate registration fee in VA), plus the costs of your hardware, food and drink. Shareware is a competitive market to be sure, but all you have to do is sell a relatively small amount in a given month.
If you have the skills, you should really consider this as an option.
Damn it's hard to not sound like a friggin commercial.
Care about electronic freedom? Consider donating to the EFF!
If any of slashdotters get high government jobs on there .. I hope they dont forget where we came from.
Remember privacy is the friend of freedom.
Curiosity is not a crime.
Open source!!!
This applies to government jobs worldwide.
Yeah that mean aussies, europeans, and (for now)especially the chinese.
later,
-Johan
20 years total. Computer vendor and Telecom background with history of multi-million dollar contributions. Northeast corridor.
No work, 9 months.
I remember one vegetable-that-walks-like-a-man in particular. When asked a fairly simple Cisco question, that involved a little TCP/IP subnetting as well, he told us he'd need web access to answer the question: he paid $120/mo to the IEEE for access to a website with all the answers.....
The problem isn't a lack of jobs, it's a surfeit of posers you have to fight through to fill those jobs. . . .as clueless as HR types are, there are way too many underqualified people out there as well. . . .and they generally have an MCSE card. . . .one suggested replacing our HP servers, Unix, and Oracle, with Wintel commodity boxes, MS Sql2K, and Win2K. . . to "improve operability". Didn't matter that our production HP-UX boxen have a 2 1/2 year uptime at the moment. . . .and the previous downtime was a system upgrade. . . .
"Uhhh.. well, I did my Master's Thesis on Library ...
forgotten more about books than you, or anyone in this entire company put together will EVER know) "
I'm glad you've got a bright well educated friend.
I've got ten years of experience in bookstores, and there's no shortage of bright people with graduate degrees working there. In fact, working in a bookstore is where I met my brilliant wife.
I met smarter, better educated, more original thinkers in the book business than I have since then in my professional life.
But guess what: Having a graduate degree in English doesn't make you a comptetent bookseller. There are other skills required.
Believe it or not, the person interviewing your friend could even have been a disenchanted lawyer, published author, or have just finished graduate school and realized she wanted to decompress & figure out what to do now that the love had been beaten out of her chosen career. She might have been all of these at once.
Your friend is competing with a lot of bright people who love books.
Yeah, you could learn, but your description doesn't fit someone who is willing to learn.
I hope you misrepresented your friend, for his sake.
Assembly is the reverse of disassembly.
I did not realize there were so many people looking for IT jobs and not finding them. There are millions of IT jobs in the USA open and unfilled, so my big question is why are there any IT people on Slashdot looking very hard for jobs but still unemplyed. The answer is painfully obvious. Poor job hunting skills and too high expectations as well as failure to keep up with technology. In other words, you are obsolete and are failing to realize it.
Most IT workers have a limited skill set. Eg.. *nix admin, C++ programmer, VB Programmer, network admin etc....
Yeah, I threw the VB in there so you would laugh, but you know what, I program (or drag and drop) in VB and I am not unemployed. So who is laughing now. That is my point, if the job requires something and you need a job, then learn or do what is needed. If a company needs a VB programmer to write Active X controls, they are not going to be impressed with your Beowulf Cluster. If the company runs an NT network, they do not care how great Linux is. You have to meet the needs of the company or at least show a willingness to learn.
Therefore if you want a job.
1. Accept and learn to adminster windows networks.
2. Learn something more than Perl and Java. (unless the job requires it)
3. Never mention a Beowulf cluster in an interview (unless the job requires it)
4. Never mention Vi or Emacs in an interview. (unless the job requires it)
5. Never mention Linux in an interview (unless the job requires it)
If the job requires a skill you do not have and the interviewer asks about it, you tell the interviewer you will know [insert skill here] tommorrow. If you are called back for a second interview, make sure you learned at least the basics of that skill.
Now for some realities.
1. You are no longer going to demand $100,000 a year because you can use Dreamweaver.
2. You are no longer going to be able to demand $200,000 a year as a java programmer.
3. You will have to work for some snot nosed kid a few years your younger and probably just out of college.
4. You will have to work 40+ hours a week in the office
Now for your resume.
1. Stop highlighting your accomplishments. Everyone does it and most interviewers know they are pretty much BS or inflated anyway.
2. Do your research ont he company you are sending a resume to and highlight how you can help their company achieve their goals.
3. Remove the Beowulf cluster reference from your resume.
4. Demonstrate how you have worked well with others in accomplishing a project. Nobody like a lone wolf programmer anymore.
Okay so now you are ready for the interview.
Get a new suit and shirt and new shoes. Get a haircut and shave and pop those zits. Shine those shoes so they look like glass and make sure the suit is properly tailored. Nothing looks worse than a poor fitting suit and worn shoes. You want to look successful and not like you need the job. The IT manager might not care, but one of the corporate officers might see you and will remark to the IT manager how sharp you looked. If that happens, you will have the job as the IT manager will eventually have to bring you to the higher ups and you will have already scored points up there. If your car is a piece of shit, then rent a car to go to the interview in. You do not make a good impression by being all sweaty and dirty because your car is trash and has no AC, plus it makes you feel good to drive a new and nice car.
In the interview, do not mention Beowulf clusters.
Heh heh. Send your resumes in as soon as possible. By the time you get an interview, the private IT sector will be on a rebound. By the time you go to get your drug test, your unemployment benefits will have run out and all the money will be in the private sector again. :)
A recession by definition is two consecutive quarters of negative growth. 6 months. Not two.
Infuriate left and right
Some people seem to be suffering from an illusion that government is actually growing right now - why else would they be hiring? The simple truth of the matter is that most government IT workers are OLD. And I'm not talking, old like 30. They're old like 50, 60, 70. Yes, I used to work with a guy that was 70. Used to because he was diagnosed with cancer and died about a month later. Add to that the fact that like 1/4 or 1/3 (I can't recall the exact number) of government IT workers are retirement eligible.
The other issue is that not a lot of people want to work for the government. The government is pretty much 180-degrees from any sort of hacker ethic. No reward for risk, HUGE levels of red tape and you're pretty much surrounded by frickin idiots. Case in point, another person I work with just got a promotion and raise of around $10,000/yr... why? not because she was qualified or an outstanding performer, but because the position was open.
If you're out of work, you have to take what you can get... but the mediocrity of government is killing me.
[anger]Thank you, i *NEEDED* one of those jobs. Now it's going to some lets-implement-an-unsupported-os-on-the-worlds-des ktops half-assed i-admined-my-friends-personal-websites joke of a sysadmin [/anger] sorry about that.. out of zoloft, lithium, and i chewed through the straps... [er, just kidding about the drugs and straps.. k]
y -pay-and-i-have-a-security-clearance type.
:)
More realistically, its going to a i-used-to-be-in-the-military-so-i'm-used-to-shitt
Get a government job, earn back the money that was extorted from you!
You said:
"Wow, based on your facts (99.999)
I am one on 100,000! I feel speacal!"
In a world of 6 Billion, you have 59,999 partners to choose from.
:)
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
You said:
"It would be nice to just create my own job, but when you're scraping by on temp
jobs and avoiding creditors, you can't."
You think I was borned with silver spoon in my mouth ?
You think I never suffer any financial setbacks ?!
I never let my creditors or my present income prevent me from doing what I want to do, especially, if that thing is what I _REALLY_ want to do.
Doing temp jobs is TRANSITIONAL thing, it's NOT permanent. Your sight should not stay within the limit of your nose, rather, you should look BEYOND THE HORIZON.
I mean, this is YOUR LIFE, you get to decide to do with YOUR LIFE. And if you think it's better to WASTE your life on satisfying your creditors' needs, then your life will be just that
And another thing, STARTING a business does NOT cost millions, if you know how to do it.
My advise to you and to all - PLEASE STOP BEHAVING LIKE THE REST (99.999%) OF THEM, because you just ain't them !
Use what you have - your skill, your talent, your will to success, and start doing whatever it is necessary to re-make your life.
Worst come the worst - and I am NOT recommending it, this is just for educational purpose - RUN AWAY FROM YOUR CREDITORS, RUN TO ANOTHER COUNTRY, AND START AFRESH !
After all, whichever country you re-start your life, IT IS STILL YOUR LIFE !
There are LOTS OF PLACES in this world - and there are places in the world where YOUR TALENT and what you know STILL MATTERS A LOT !
If you can't do it in the States, go to China or Bangladesh or Turkey or wherever, where the NEED for your skill is TREMENDOUS, and THEY WILL PAY for what you know !
Trust me - I am speaking from experience - NOT the run away thing, but go OUT of the States to FIND PARADISE elsewhere thing.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Besides, you can "run things" if you just take some initiative. We're making some technical leaps out of the stone age on our project, and I volunteered to help some of our crustier programmers get with the program. I don't get paid any extra money for doing this, but it does raise my reputation a few points. Perhaps if I keep on like this, I'll be a team lead before too long. Not bad for a kid a few years out of school.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. --Edmund Burke
most it jobs start you out as at GS7, probably in mid 40s-51k
you have decent advancement options and good benefits. you won't get rich working for the government, but they will TRAIN you a lot which is good if you ever want to work elsewhere. the training oppertunites alone are probably worth it.
Bring back the old version of slashdot.
Wife and I laid off right before Christmas 2001...
Wife: Despite slowdown, she finds architecture job in one month from AIA web site.
Me: Finds Internet/broadcast engineering crossover job in three months from employer web site. Definately not my last job (which was Product Manager, streaming media), lots of new stuff to learn, is fun so far.
Four months later: Government job I applied for in January contacts me in mid April. Doh!
Too Many Users
There are too many connected users. Please try again later.
Well, the kickoff of the Virtual IT Job Fair brought down the house, or at least the servers. OPM is desperately adding computers to keep up with demand...
(* The national unemployment rate is still under 6%, at last projection it was actually at 5.5%, and the tech sector unemployment rate is lower still. *)
That is bull! I happen to be lucky because I got on a temp position with a local gov unit before the recession hit it directly. IOW, I got on because they react too slow to the slumping market and I got dot-slammed earlier than many.
However, the market stinks rotton eggs right now.
Programming is *especially* sensative to recessions because roughly half of all programming is for medium-term projects, which are the earliest to be cut in hard times. It is almost like being in the mink business. Recessions piss hard on programming because it is a lot of "strategic" projects.
Think about it. If 40 percent of all programming is for non-mission-critical projects, why the heck would PHB's keep them all around? Not. They will trim the programming force by 40 percent.
And don't eeeeeven get me started about H1B visas.
And, government hiring is a maze of non-merit based goofy rules made up from wacked-out bueurocracies and cheesy unions. The hiring process weeds out a lot of good, goal-oriented people.
Table-ized A.I.
Surprise! Nobody gives a rat's ass about you!
And I don't fucking care how long you have been unemployed. Big fucking hooray. If you had been working on your skills in those 14 months instead of your panhandling, maybe you'd have a fucking job right now.
You and your giant fucking Slashdot pity party...
You said:
"maybe so.. but some of us are entry level with no skills & experiences other than academic
Don't worry.
Experience don't come by if you just sit there and moan.
Go out there, knock on doors, hit the pavement - I know it sounds like cliche, but that's what you gotta do - and get someone to let you in.
Do whatever you already know, and ASK OTHERS for what you NOT YET KNOW !
You need to know one thing - that YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING.
If you keep this in mind, you will learn from others, and in the learning process, you GAIN EXPERIENCES.
Take care !
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
I really want a government job. It's so fun! And you can waste time there easily. A great place for procrastinators.
If what you said is true
"Should read:
... went into consultation, now in comercial email, and so on and so forth
Then where's the dinero, man ?
:)
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !