Slashdot Mirror
Worst Buy
Cutriss writes "Steve Lynch of Hypothermia has been running a consumer awareness page following of an Internet pricing disagreement between Best Buy and over 2000 angry customers, where Best Buy refused to honor a web-only sale price of a GeForce4 Ti 4600 for $129.99, at a "Special pre-order price". The situation has escalated further - Rod Hill, Store Manager for Best Buy #513 in Tucker/Dekalb County, GA, had a customer arrested on Friday of last week, citing Fraud and Criminal Trespassing. Hill informed police that Abraham Cherian, an Indian American, was trying to rip off the store, the same store that had conceded to give another customer his video card as requested 10 days earlier. Best Buy is now apparently red-flagging inquiring troublemak^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcustomers who attempt to obtain their purchased cards from Best Buy locations." FWIW, if the description of what happened is accurate, Best Buy has entered into a binding contract to sell the cards at the advertised price, and if they don't want to honor it, the people affected should take them to court (or contact their local Attorney General's office, which is what they appear to be doing). It's Best Buy's obligation to make sure their prices are accurate.
You'd think after the Kodak fiasco & another online vendor got the price of an X-Box wrong - and in both cases the customer got it (eventually) at the advertised price they'd just cave in and avoid the bad publicity!
Video Game cheats, hints a
Hill informed police that Abraham Cherian, an Indian American
... and what exactly does that last part matter for?
--- I do not moderate.
http://www.bestbuy.com/infoCenter/Policies/Deliver y.asp#2
Best Buy may, at its own discretion, limit or cancel quantities purchased per person, per household or per order. These restrictions may include orders placed by the same BestBuy.com account, credit card, and also orders which use the same billing and/or shipping address. Notification will be sent to the e-mail and/or billing address provided should such change occur. We reserve the right to limit the quantities sold, including the right to limit or prohibit sales to dealers.
Prices and availability are subject to change without notice. Errors will be corrected where discovered, and Best Buy reserves the right to revoke any stated offer and to correct any errors, inaccuracies or omissions including after an order has been submitted and whether or not the order has been confirmed and your credit card charged. If your credit card has already been charged for the purchase and your order is cancelled, BestBuy.com will issue a credit to your credit card account in the amount of the charge. Individual bank policies will dictate when this amount is credited to your account.
While Best Buy takes steps to ensure the accuracy and completeness of product and third-party services provided, please refer to the originator of information for details, for example the manufacturer for complete product details.
They seem to do this intentionally. This isn't the first time Best Buy has misguided customers on its website. They purposely mark a product with the wrong price to get everyone's pre-order dollars and then don't ship it and call it a "typo". They then proceed to either refund you or give you a "discounted price" for their "mistake" which is no where near the original price advertised on their website.
It is some kind of cheap ploy to get people to use their website for all of their purchases. This is all to common with e-tailers these days. I for one sincerely hope that Steve and Hypothermia take Best Buy to the cleaners over this one.
It's not that bad... the police sided with the guy, saying the manager shouldn't have done that. Seems like they're doing just what they should, in this case. Best Buy are being assholes about it, and they're getting slapped for it. No news here.
- Free tabletop fantasy gaming! Grey Lotus
Putting a disclaimer on a page doesn't either make it true or enforcable. Many things can override silly disclaimers. (Like laws conserning advertising fairness). They're usually there to scare people off from actually following through when harmed. Because if it's in a disclaimer, it must be true.
Remember reading about this in MaximumPC a month or two ago; Best Buy's stand then was that it was an error/typo and not a legally binding contract -- they said that they would not honor the price... seems that some of the stores have been honoring the price, unbeknownst to corporate management..
...we are from the government - we are here to help...
I work for an educational institution, and one of the doctors that I work for recently had an experience at the local Best Buy.
He had just bought a harddrive and taken it home, only to find that inside the sealed box was a can of tuna. This is something so utterly rediculous, he decided to back up his case. He called the tuna manufacturer and found that the code stamped on the bottom of the can showed that the can had been shipped to the same county as the manufacturer of the harddrive.
So now it is time to go to the store and try to get a replacement. Of course, everyone knows the story. The manager refused to honor the story, even when presented with this amount of evidence.
The next step was for our doctor in question to go to a bigger regional manager and tell the story. When this manager heard the information about the problem and had looked up the purchasing history of this doctor, he immediately had a new harddrive waiting for the doctor.
I have left quite a bit out of this story, including the bit about where the police were almost called and where the doctor notes to the first manager that he makes more in a month than the manager does in a year, but you get the idea.
If what has been reported is true about the Indian American being arrested for trying to get his GF4 at the low price. That is a whole new story. Reading up at Hypothermia and the HardOCP Forums it seems so. After some of my experiences at Best Buy, and all this nonsense over the GF4 they are definately on My List. This story about arresting a guy over what happened is just the icing on the cake.
What exactly happened still seems a bit unclear, and we should probably what for Best Buy's response, but it really doesn't surprise me that Best Buy acted this way. Their company cultrue seems to foster turning employees into assholes. IMHO, of course.
Still waiting for mine! ;-)
--
From: onlinestore@bestbuy.com
To: <ajs@ajs.com>
Subject: BestBuy.com Backorder Notice
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 05:32:13 -0600
Message-ID: <EC0250S603avN3qljWw0001d1ed@ec0250s603.xbby.co m>
Dear Aaron Sherman,
Thank you for shopping at BestBuy.com!
Unfortunately, the following item(s) are still unavailable to be shipped, but we hope to be able to ship this item(s) to you soon.
If you prefer to cancel this item from your order, please contact our Customer Care representatives at onlinestore@bestbuy.com or call our Online Store help center toll-free at 1-888-BESTBUY (1-888-237-8289).
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
ORDER NUMBER: 213****
Order Date: Feb 6, 2002
Credit Card Used: ****************
Item Description Type Qty Web Price Total Status
VisionTek Xtasy GeForce4 Ti 46 --- 1 $129.99 $129.99 On Backorder
[................] SNIP!
They've had customers arrested for comparison shopping.
-- Don't Tase me, bro!
Sure they have a disclaimer, but is the disclaimer legal? They're basically telling you that they can change the price of a product at any time, regardless of when the purchase was made. That sounds rather fishy to me. One would think that Best Buy has a decent legal team, but if it's anything like the team of people in their stores...well, most people here know what I mean.
So the question now (probably) becomes : Does Best Buy really have the right to arbitrarily change the price on any item you purchase, just because the disclaimer says so?
If it were a typo, I'd have to agree with you. But quoting a "$200 savings" along with the listed price, which just happens to match the average pricewatch price on that card, isn't a typo.
Besides, there is one other thing to consider here...people have PAID for the card at that price. Even if it were a honest typo, Best Buy (or any other company) is obliged to give the option to either use the money towards the proper purchase price, give a refund or give store credit. They only have rights to your money in exchange for goods or services rendered.
After all how would you feel if you paid your hard earned money for something that you aren't getting and when you asked for your money, you were told to "sod off"? I don't know about you, but I'd be rather miffed
-- Wiccan Army, 13th Airborne Division "We will not fly silently into the night"
I would expect the incident report would refer to the "suspect" by his name, after all they have identified him, right? Instead, they make repeated comments to his skin color as if that has any bearing to the case.
"He's not white, so he must be guilty your honor!"
I'm "white," but I do like it when officers that are required to uphold the law know what are important facts from the details. Sometimes police scare me. That guy shouldn't have made it past the interviews for a "security guard," not to mention a police officer. Sounds racist to me if I have seen it.
Allright, can I have one minute of fame here ?? please :)
They even got my name all wrong, it should be Cherian Abraham, not the other way around..sheesh!
Its true. This all went down last Friday at the Best Buy store at Tucker, GA. I am just gonna repeat what happened word by word. Makes quite an interesting reading. And I would really appreciate if you guys could tell me where I should go from here.
So I went to BB at Tucker,GA last Friday armed with the receipts, my original and the copies I printed from the site. I was dumb enough to trust BB and I didnt have anyone to take along with me for the ride. I know I should have.
There was only one card left on the aisle, so I grabbed with a couple of other things (a 80GB HD and a Platinum Audigy) and went to the counter. There was this customer service lady who told me that six or seven people have been trying to PM with the same receipt there and its not possible. She said that the receipt was a fake, the guy who created it is no longer with BB etc. She asked me if I wanted to talk to the manager, so I said yes.
Out comes the General Manager called Rod, I politely explained why I am there. He asked me to follow him to a separate room. He did not want to discuss further details standing outside, he wanted me to follow him. Neither did he tell me then and there that I should get the heck out of there. I was kinda hesitant at first, but I thought no better of it and followed him. Inside we sat down and started going through the receipts. Then another guy, a sales manager called Paul McKim comes in, and suddenly Rod jumps out and drags him out whispering something. Rod comes back in and we start going through the same shit again. I believed that I would make him see the sense of it if I kept my cool and explained everything . He was giving me all fucked up reasons and all I wanted was a yes or no. He told me "I dont know whether I can pricematch that low, but let me ask my Sales manager".
15 mins later, cops walk in. Then I knew they were stalling me on all the time, that he was just waiting there, making sure I was there till the cops arrive. Anyway I still kept my cool and explained to them the reason why I was there. Half an hour goes by and I am still alone in the room with the cops talking to them. Cops are all the time outside talking to BB and not even bothering to listen to my story.
In comes on of the cops, cuffs me (God that hurts) and then tells me that I was cuffed so that I wouldnt hurt anyone. Yeah right!. So here I am cuffed for the first time of my life and humiliated. Then they told me that I was being arrested for Fraud and that I am being taken to the Dekalb Office and a detective would take it up from there on. They brought me out amidst the whole store, but I kept my head high , because I hadnt done anything wrong and I had nothing to worry about.
Cops took me on a joy ride for half an hour and it was a damn uncomfortable one. Once there, they took me to this holding pen alone and made me wait there. In comes one black lady, who looked far more reasonable and intelligent than all the three cops combined, and she told me that she is going to talk to the BB guy (Paul) first and then myself. I waited there for almost an hour (the whole thing took from 11:30 till 3:30) and then she came in and asked me for my story. I explained her everything. She tells me then that she does not believe BB's story that I forged the receipt. Looks like they first told her that the receipt was a Fraudulent one and that they have proof to that effect, but once we all got to the precinct changed the story saying that they cant prove it anymore. Also they changed the charge from Fraud to Criminal Trespass, though at no time whatsoever they had asked me to leave the store. I work as an Analyst for a firm in Atlanta and I was looking quite respectable in my work clothes. anyway, she told me that BB does not want me as a customer and I told her that I would be happy to take my business elsewhere.
She told me that they had changed their tactics from "Forging the receipt" to "Trespassing - not leaving the store even when I were asked to". I told her that all the time the General manager Rod, wanted to keep me there so that the cops would come in, and never he asked me to leave the store. She sympathised with me and told me that she ended up warning the guy from BestBuy.
So here I am Vindicated, Harassed, Ridiculed. Given up ? Hell no! I guess thats one thing you learn when you are a geek.
Rapid Nirvana
In case you missed it, here is the quote from hypothermia about the original web offer:
Type something, will you? We're paying for this stuff!
You're on crack.
If the price read "129.99" instead of "329.99," that's a typo.
"SPECIAL PRE-ORDER! 129.99 $200 SAVINGS!!" is most obviously not a typo.
In addition, if it's a typo, then you don't honor it. You don't honor it for some people, turn other people away, and have other people arrested for trying to get what they ordered at the price they ordered it at.
I used to work at Incredible Universe, an electronics store where the television department alone was roughly the size of a Best Buy. All the ones that made money were bought out by Fry's, and I was at one of the ones that made money. The way it was always explained to me was that we actually weren't responsible for the physical price tags on the items on the self; people could switch those, alter those, and so forth. We also weren't responsible for misprints or out-of-stocks on the newspaper ads; the ads are run for the whole country, and so long as one of the stores has the item in stock, it's a legal ad and not bait-and-switch. Misprints, of course, are the responsibility of the printer.
So people'd buy an item, take it to the register, and the clerk'd scan the UPC. We were responsible for the price the item scans at the register, and if it was wrong, tough titty, we'd have to sell it anyway. We'd change the price in the system pretty damned fast, but we'd at least have to sell it to that guy.
Actually, the $30 coupon originated from Cheetah Mail, an online direct marketing company. So, now they sold your information to a marketing company as well.
The $30 "gift-certificate" (actually a "coupon") also had a few extra strings attached.
What a nice way to "make up for their screw-up."
Also, if you used it, then you forfeit your ability to enter into any class-action lawsuit, or complain in any way after that, or receive any part of a settlement or compromise that could happen at a later date.
Don't steal. The government hates competition.
At this point, I would call the local friendly legal professional. I bet he or she would be very happy to pursue a wrongful detention civil suit against Best Buy and its manager. Lawyers love this sort of case, especially when it's a little guy clearly in the right versus a big retailer. You get the chance to teach BB a lesson, see the manager get his ass fired, and you could get a nice little chunk of change for your trouble.
And let us know how it goes. BB deserves the smackdown for this one.
'I'm tired of waltzing for pancakes.' - Gwen Mezzrow
Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
Assuming what you said is true, then best buy did break the law. Its called "bait and switch" and that is illegal. Of course the hard part is proving that they intentionally showed the lower price to get people to come and spend more than that. Its more detailed than that, but the point is its illegal(I think in the US). It happend to me with a mail order place, had a duron w/ main board combo advertised in a magazine. I called them, 2 days after getting the mag, and they said the sale was over. and that by the time the magazine gets to peoples hands the sale is usually over...I said the words "sounds like bait and switch, thats illegal" 15 minutes later my stuff was ordered and on the way.
LinuxWorx
Spelling errors are intentional as are gramatical error
Several months ago I my daughter spent her allowance on a game at best buy. When we got it home I installed the game and found it would not run (crashed on startup). This was on my wife's HP Pavilion (about as generic a consumer computer as you can find). I then tried it on my own computer, a bastard, self-built, multi-booting geek box from hell. Same exact problem, failed on startup.
We went back to the store to exchange it for a different game. No chance. They will not exchange a game unless the media is damage, and then only for another copy of the same game.
I spent far too long arguing with the manager. I pointed out that they would lose a regular customer over a $30 game. He would not budge.
I have not been back to that store since then. So as not to disappoint my daughter, I let her buy another game (from a different store, of course) as it would have been cruel to tell her she lost her allowance.
Unfortunately, this refusal to exchange software is a growing trend. Eventually, I will be forced to pirate all software for testing before I make an actual purchase.
-- Will program for bandwidth
I have had problems with that store as well. That manager, in fact. They must be desparate for ANYONE to work there as a manager to keep that bozo.
I was also accused of attempting to defraud them when I tried to return som RAM that wouldn't work in an IBM Aptiva. (Picky box, Crucial ram worked fine). He told me they didn't even sell the brand I was returning. I had purchased it less than 30 minutes earlier! When I tried to get him to look in the locked case where the ram is so he could SEE THE SAME BRAND, he ordered me out of the store.
I am no longer a customer. I will not EVER be customer again. I go out of my way to tell anyone who will listen to my story just how crappy of a store Best Buy, and the Tucker store in particular is.
I vote for quality business with my money. Best Buy would eventually go out of business if it were not for the hourdes of people willing to tolerate crap for service where they shop.
(there, your reputation has now been damaged - feel free to sue Best Buy for false arrest and damaging your reputation)
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Apu: Today, I am no longer an Indian living in America. I am an Indian-American.
Lisa: You know, in a way, all Americans are immigrants. Except, of course Native Americans.
Homer: Yeah, Native Americans like us.
Lisa: No, I mean American Indians.
Apu: Like me.
As always, this does not consitiute formal legal advice, get a lawyer in your jurisdiction for advice.
First off, get a lawyer. Once of the nice ambulence chasing kind. If they like the case, and they probably will, they should do it for a split of the settlement. Of course nothing is ever sure in the court system, but juries are generally sympathetic to cases of consumers suing big corperations for being assholes.
Next, I would talk to your DA about possable criminal charges against the manager. It sounds like he knowling lied to the police to have you arrested, and that's illegal.
Finally continue to do what you are doing now, which is to spread the word. Bad press hurts the company immensly.
Wow, that's a scary story!
I worked for BestBuy for about 60 days many years ago, and was told on a Saturday evening to be sure to bring a white shirt to work on Sunday.
Sunday morning I was given a micro-cassette recorder and was told to change into the white shirt and head off to a local competitor (H.H. Gregg's) to record all the prices on equipment that we sold at BestBuy as well.
Then when I got back, I had to fill out a form of all the items I had seen, compare our prices to their prices, and if necessary print up new signs with prices that matched our competitor.
Kind of sad that they would arrest someone for doing something that they pay their employees to do!
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
Here's another data point to consider, a story about how Best Buy gave a customer a hard time, apparently, for buying something besides their top-of-the-line sattelite system.
I know it's going to be years before I make a purchase from Best Buy again...they're going to have go to a very long way to recover my confidence as a customer. Issuing a formal apology to their customers would be a start.
Finding God in a Dog
Best Buy advertised the VisionTek Xtasy GeForce4 Ti4600 for preorder at the price of $129.99 (plus applicable sales tax) on their website (bestbuy.com) on Wednesday, February 6, 2002.
Over 2,000 customers placed orders for the card at this special price.
These customers were greeted with confirmation web pages, confirmation e-mail messages, issued order numbers, and some even received backorder confirmation e-mail messages (some even received multiple backorder confirmations).
Within hours, Best Buy pulled the offer, and "corrected" what they later called a "pricing error."
Cancellation e-mails were sent out, and cited a "systems error" for the mistake.
Best Buy issued a press released (only published at news.com) which blamed "human error" for the mistake.
Customers who called Best Buy to inquire about the order cancellation were told that VisionTek would not allow Best Buy to sell the cards at the originally agreed-upon price (Best Buy was falsely accusing VisionTek of illegal price-fixing tactics).
Best Buy does have a disclaimer on their web site in the form of their Terms of Service Agreement.
At no point during the account-creation or order-placing processes are customers required to read or actively agree to these terms (see Specht vs. Netscape; also see the FTC's Advertising and Marketing on the Internet: Rules of the Road).
Best Buy has actually changed their Terms of Service since this entire fiasco began.
Best Buy's Terms of Service do not supercede federal, state, and local consumer protection laws, which (in many cases) specifically outlaw this type of activity.
Best Buy's Terms of Service exist for the sole purpose of tricking customers into surrendering their consumer rights. The way consumer law is written, customers must exercise their rights; if they surrender them, the company in question is not required to adhere to these laws.
"E-tailers" are subject to the same rules, regulations, and laws that apply to their brick-and-mortar cousins. (See the FTC's Dot Com Disclosures)
Best Buy has stated that absolutely no one will be receiving the card at the previously agreed-upon price, yet well over 140 customers have already done so.
Best Buy is ignoring its customers at this point. E-mails go unanswered, and phone calls are greeted with a promise to escalate the call, but the customer must wait for someone to contact them; this, of course, never happens.
At least one person has already taken this to Small Claims Court. He had his first hearing a couple of weeks ago, but Best Buy requested a continuance, which was granted.
A class action lawsuit is still an option, and one that may be used.
There are more facts that are pertinent, but these are the most commonly misunderstood or ignored pieces of information.
People who never paid for this "special" pre-order don't have the same rights; they can't force BestBuy to honor the mistake (legally speaking).
Because Best Buy owns Musicland, they support the CBDTPA.
Another reason to avoid shopping there.
He looked at me and said, "Kid, we don't like your kind, and we're gonna send your fingerprints off to Washington."
Maybe a little O/T, but everyone please notice that the police in this instance behaved completely properly throughout the situation, to the point of empathizing with this gentleman.
With the cops, when they fsck up, everyone's on their back. Nobody notices when the system works, and it appears to be working well here.
As for Best Buy, get a good lawyer who'll work for a split of the rewards for such harrassing behavior, and drain them dry.
Make sure you get your GeForce4 out of it, too. Make that manager hand it to you himself.
The only tool you've got against psychosis is experience.
No, no, no. This is not a sig.
My DDR Ram story
Here is my story. I was putting off getting a couple sticks of DDR RAM until after the MPX motherboards were ready to ship. Prices started to skyrocket - thinking they would come down again I waited another week. That next week, Best Buy ran an add for 256 stick of crucial DDR RAM for $25 (after $10 rebate on one) when the market was closer to $50. I went to the store and sure enough, it was stripped clean. On-line, however, it showed in stock so I picked up some for in-store pickup.
Order Date: Dec 10, 2001
In-store Pick-up Items:
Crucial Technologies 256MB PC2 --- 2 $34.99 $69.
It looked good. No problems. The store was near by, so I stopped in and checked. We should have another shipment any day now.... Then the email...
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001
From: onlinestore@bestbuy.com
To: xxx
Subject: BestBuy.com Order Cancellation Notice
Dear (sucker-my-name-here),
Thank you for shopping at BestBuy.com.
One or more of the items that you've recently ordered have cancelled. Please take a moment
to contact our Customer Care representatives by replying to this e-mail or by calling us
toll-free at 1-888-BEST BUY (1-888-237-8289) for further assistance.
I called the customer service people, and they said that if the item was offered again, they would honor the price. Early January, I saw the RAM was listed on the website again. I called the CS department before I ordered and asked for the details. They said if the item was exactly the same skew number, they would honor the price and ship it to me free this time. Call back with the order number. I ordered, called with the info, and got the item....
Order Date: Jan 10, 2002
Shipped Items:
Crucial Technology 256MB PC210 --- 2 $89.99 $179.98 Shipped on Jan 11,
2002
As one may guess, getting the credit was less than easy. Turns out after I took shipment they tell me - ah, well the credit is not automatic. OK... They will forward it to another department for review.. Gha! Well, after many phone calls and showing up in person (something about working a few blocks away may help) they relented and gave me the full credit promised. The email was not clear, but eventually the credits came.
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002
From: BestBuy.com Customer Care
Subject: Shipping Credit Applied
Greetings from BestBuy.Com,
This email is regarding the recent order you placed on www.BestBuy.com for
In-Store Pick-up. Because our store did not have the product(s) you ordered
in-stock, we are providing you with free shipping to your home.
Your credit card statement will show that you were charged the price of the
product(s) plus applicable taxes and shipping costs. The billing statement
will also show a credit to your account that reflects the cost of shipping
and handling. There may also be a credit for any applicable tax difference
and difference in the price of the product(s). Your credit card bank will
receive notice of this credit within the next 24-48 hours, however, it may
take up to 2-3 billing cycles for the credit to appear on your billing
statement. If you have questions regarding this credit please contact your
credit card bank for more information.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you and we hope that you
will continue to shop www.BestBuy.com for all of your future entertainment
needs.
It gets worse.... One of my friends ordered for normal delivery. They decided not to give her the credit, but were gracious enough to take the unopened package back and refund all the cost involved. The lameness filter here sucks - but the twists and turns it took to do both were insane.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU