Slashdot Mirror
Sun's Linux Exec Departs
HyperbolicParabaloid writes "The NY Times (free reg blah blah) has an article about the departure of Sun's no.2 exec, but also mentions that
Stephen DeWitt, the vice president of an important business unit that leads Sun's efforts with the Linux operating system, quietly left Sun
on Friday, the company confirmed today."" And the question is: How will this affect projects like OpenOffice release and the on-again, off-again McNealy Linux relationship.
Hello???
N . tml?pagewanted=print&position=bottom
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/02/technology/02SU
Maybe not Linux-business related. Maybe he was driving drunk or something.
Zander to quit Sun in July (good bye, and good riddance)
Sun Linux boss quits (blah.)
I think this is worse news for Sun than for Linux.
There is little or nothing Sun's OS can do now that Linux can't. And if Linux can't now, it will do soon.
I know that MS haters like to see Sun as in some way a friend - my enemy's enemies and all that - but the logic of a free OS applies just as much to Sun's offerings as it does to Microsoft's - maybe even more so as what Unix application will run on Solaris and not on Linux.
Sun will sooner or later have to realise that Linux will dominate the Unix OS market to an ever greater extent in the future. They will not have much oa future if they don't factor that into their plans.
well since he left, maybe they will get someone who will support star office development for windows and linux, we all know how much we loved those programs instead of having to use openoffice or the crappy ms office...
C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg
Overall, Sun seems to be stuck between that proverbial rock and a hard place when it comes to Linux.
.Net initiative.
Linux is probably their #1 competitor, and #1 hope. If I have a choice between Solaris, or Red Hat, I'd pick Red Hat every time. Cheaper, runs on cheaper hardware, and I still get great support for $60 to $240 a year, as well as getting all the power of Open Source, which is making Linux more powerful every single day.
If they support Linux, then they become another fish in the ocean with IBM, HP, Red Hat, and others, and they have to compete as one. If they support Solaris, then they can make the rules - but watch as their market shares erodes thanks to that "cheap, open system".
So what can Sun do? Good question. Java is probably Sun's best product, and perhaps it would be best if IBM bought Sun and then open sourced Java to keep combatting the
But either way, I love watching the competition, and that's the #1 reason why I'm glad Linux is on the market.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
an: not to be used for talking about a person. An should be entirely left out of this article.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
Wait a minute....he had something to do with LINUX?!? OMG!!!!!!!!!! The sky is falling in! Normal employee churn doesn't work the same with LINUX!
Sun/wipro was the driving force behind GNOME 2 development.
So how will this affect GNOME 2? We can expect more delays presumably.
(Please browse at -1 to read this comment.)
Top Ranks Are Thinned at Sun as No. 2 Executive Joins Exodus
By CHRIS GAITHER
AN FRANCISCO, May 1 -- Edward J. Zander, the gregarious executive who oversaw daily operations at Sun Microsystems, plans to retire on July 1, the company said today.
Mr. Zander, the No. 2 executive at Sun, a troubled computer maker, is the fourth prominent executive there to announce a retirement in recent weeks. A fifth manager, Stephen DeWitt, the vice president of an important business unit that leads Sun's efforts with the Linux operating system, quietly left Sun on Friday, the company confirmed today.
Investors showed their disappointment with Mr. Zander's departure. The stock plunged $1.21, or 14.8 percent, to $6.97, a low not seen since 1998. Mr. Zander, who is 55, was credited by many analysts as the driving force behind Sun's rapid ascension before the Internet bubble burst.
Sun, which makes high-powered computers and software for networks, will not immediately replace Mr. Zander as president and chief operating officer. Instead, Scott G. McNealy, Sun's chairman and chief executive, said he would assume the role of president on July 1, the beginning of Sun's next fiscal year.
"You've literally had the top three executives outside of McNealy resign within two weeks," said A. M. Sacconaghi Jr., an analyst with Sanford C. Bernstein & Company. "It has to raise the same kinds of doubts that investors raised today among some customers."
Mr. Zander said he had decided to leave Sun last year but had wanted to wait until the company showed signs of emerging from a slump brought on by a slowdown in corporate spending and a sharp downturn in its main customer base, dot-coms.
In an interview, Mr. Zander, who joined Sun in 1987 from Apollo Computer, said his future plans were not set. But he did not rule out taking the helm of another company as early as next year. As it became clear that Mr. McNealy had no intention of leaving soon, Mr. Zander said, he realized that he would have to leave if he wanted to be a chief executive.
"That's not necessarily saying that I wanted to be C.E.O.," he said, "but I knew that Scott was going to be in control here. If I was going to experience something else in life, whatever that is, I had to move on, but I didn't want to move on until I felt the company was in a shape that was a lot better than a year ago."
In the last two weeks, three other top executives have announced their plans to leave the company on July 1. They include the chief financial officer, Michael E. Lehman; the executive vice president of Sun's computer systems business, John Shoemaker; and the head of Sun's enterprise services business, Larry Hambly.
Another executive, Mr. DeWitt, who resigned without a public announcement on Friday, had served as vice president of Sun's content delivery and edge computing division since Cobalt, the company he had led as chief executive, was acquired by Sun in September 2000. He had been viewed as an up-and-comer within Sun and was featured prominently at the company's meeting for Wall Street analysts in February.
In a conference call with the company, some Wall Street analysts criticized Sun officials for stringing them along with four separate announcements of the retirements. They also expressed concern that other retirement announcements would soon follow -- a fear that Mr. McNealy did not dispel during the call.
Mr. McNealy said several executives had wanted to retire last year but had decided to stay on through the end of this fiscal year to help the company through "the rough patch."
"The fiscal year is the right time to go do this thing," Mr. McNealy said. "I know it looks like a flurry here, but I think it's been positive and planned out."
While Sun's fortunes are tied heavily to the overall economy and the return of corporate spending on information-technology systems, Mr. McNealy said that Sun was in better shape than it had been in the last two years. Its losses of $37 million for its fiscal third quarter, which ended March 31, narrowed in spite of flat sales, and Sun said it expected to turn a profit in this quarter.
As the top field marshal for Mr. McNealy, Mr. Zander has been responsible for intensifying Sun's competition with International Business Machines in high-end computer systems that run networks and corporate data centers.
Laura Conigliaro, an analyst with Goldman, Sachs, said it was unclear how Sun would replace Mr. Zander's mixture of intelligence and deep understanding of the marketplace. Mr. Zander has been an effective foil for Mr. McNealy, the brash and visionary leader who sets Sun's strategy and has jousted on the public and legal stage with Microsoft for years.
"When you look around the computer industry, or even more broadly," she said, "it's hard to find the qualities that Ed Zander has brought to Sun."
OpenOffice 1.0 is out. It works. And, in any case, an exec departing isn't the same thing as all the projects getting scrapped.
quietly left Sun on Friday, the company confirmed today
Quietly? Looks like the guy just went home for the weekend.
Key Sun Linux executive departs as drain continues
Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project (censorware.org)
SAN FRANCISCO, May 1 -- Edward J. Zander, the gregarious executive who oversaw daily operations at Sun Microsystems, plans to retire on July 1, the company said today.
Mr. Zander, the No. 2 executive at Sun, a troubled computer maker, is the fourth prominent executive there to announce a retirement in recent weeks. A fifth manager, Stephen DeWitt, the vice president of an important business unit that leads Sun's efforts with the Linux operating system, quietly left Sun on Friday, the company confirmed today.
Investors showed their disappointment with Mr. Zander's departure. The stock plunged $1.21, or 14.8 percent, to $6.97, a low not seen since 1998. Mr. Zander, who is 55, was credited by many analysts as the driving force behind Sun's rapid ascension before the Internet bubble burst.
Sun, which makes high-powered computers and software for networks, will not immediately replace Mr. Zander as president and chief operating officer. Instead, Scott G. McNealy, Sun's chairman and chief executive, said he would assume the role of president on July 1, the beginning of Sun's next fiscal year.
"You've literally had the top three executives outside of McNealy resign within two weeks," said A. M. Sacconaghi Jr., an analyst with Sanford C. Bernstein & Company. "It has to raise the same kinds of doubts that investors raised today among some customers."
Mr. Zander said he had decided to leave Sun last year but had wanted to wait until the company showed signs of emerging from a slump brought on by a slowdown in corporate spending and a sharp downturn in its main customer base, dot-coms.
In an interview, Mr. Zander, who joined Sun in 1987 from Apollo Computer, said his future plans were not set. But he did not rule out taking the helm of another company as early as next year. As it became clear that Mr. McNealy had no intention of leaving soon, Mr. Zander said, he realized that he would have to leave if he wanted to be a chief executive.
"That's not necessarily saying that I wanted to be C.E.O.," he said, "but I knew that Scott was going to be in control here. If I was going to experience something else in life, whatever that is, I had to move on, but I didn't want to move on until I felt the company was in a shape that was a lot better than a year ago."
In the last two weeks, three other top executives have announced their plans to leave the company on July 1. They include the chief financial officer, Michael E. Lehman; the executive vice president of Sun's computer systems business, John Shoemaker; and the head of Sun's enterprise services business, Larry Hambly.
Another executive, Mr. DeWitt, who resigned without a public announcement on Friday, had served as vice president of Sun's content delivery and edge computing division since Cobalt, the company he had led as chief executive, was acquired by Sun in September 2000. He had been viewed as an up-and-comer within Sun and was featured prominently at the company's meeting for Wall Street analysts in February.
In a conference call with the company, some Wall Street analysts criticized Sun officials for stringing them along with four separate announcements of the retirements. They also expressed concern that other retirement announcements would soon follow -- a fear that Mr. McNealy did not dispel during the call.
Mr. McNealy said several executives had wanted to retire last year but had decided to stay on through the end of this fiscal year to help the company through "the rough patch."
"The fiscal year is the right time to go do this thing," Mr. McNealy said. "I know it looks like a flurry here, but I think it's been positive and planned out."
While Sun's fortunes are tied heavily to the overall economy and the return of corporate spending on information-technology systems, Mr. McNealy said that Sun was in better shape than it had been in the last two years. Its losses of $37 million for its fiscal third quarter, which ended March 31, narrowed in spite of flat sales, and Sun said it expected to turn a profit in this quarter.
As the top field marshal for Mr. McNealy, Mr. Zander has been responsible for intensifying Sun's competition with International Business Machines in high-end computer systems that run networks and corporate data centers.
Laura Conigliaro, an analyst with Goldman, Sachs, said it was unclear how Sun would replace Mr. Zander's mixture of intelligence and deep understanding of the marketplace. Mr. Zander has been an effective foil for Mr. McNealy, the brash and visionary leader who sets Sun's strategy and has jousted on the public and legal stage with Microsoft for years.
"When you look around the computer industry, or even more broadly," she said, "it's hard to find the qualities that Ed Zander has brought to Sun."
I don't think this will effect OpenOffice at all. It has been unleashed to the open source community, so even if Sun *wants* to abandon it, someone else can pick it up.
What about Java. There are currently 3 main platforms for Java pushed by Sun: Solaris, Windows and Linux. Mac also, but this is more of a push from Apple. I'd be much more concerned with what might happen with Java than OpenOffice.
Here's a cookie.
when sun aquired staroffice, they were committing to open source.
/. at that time was along the lines "don't trust sun, they wanna be just like microsoft". i tend to share that opinion, but a lot of people commented we should give them a chance and don't distrust them just because they're a big corporation.
;-]
the only criticism i read on
in itself, that's an argument which already made my point. i think it's dangerous to trust any corporation in these matters since their prime objective is making money and not supporting politics/freedom/whatever. well, it is, as long as they can make money by supporting open source
i hope i'm wrong, but first charging for staroffice, and now the departure of the guy in charge of linux strategy... it doesn't sound very promising.
On the other hand, if Sun decides to turn its back on Linux support or anything else along those lines, we can always hold them up like most of /. does with MS....
...we are from the government - we are here to help...
rise and shine sun/cobalt. cobalt seems to be their linux mechanism, and with dewitt leaving, one has to wonder what sun is up to with cobalt. especially, since they have not updated the cute little beggers in way too long. hello is anyone @home? sleepy time! i wnated to buy a few raq 5's with real processors (thanks, but i'll pass on the xtr, but maybe some sun 100s), but apple may actually have a rack mount out before sun/cobalt updates their machine. the breakfast of champions, web objects!
Sun's opportunities continue to dwindle.
Those companies that need big iron are finding that they can get by with cheaper x86 hardware. Fighting the trend and not evolving seems like a sure way to run yourself out of business.
There will always be a demand for big Sun hardware. The problem is that the demand is in a mature market, so the stockholders have to either get used to lower returns and lower value of stock, or slap Mr. McNeily around the ears and tell him to get with the program.
Sun (and SGI) have tremendous talent and abilities. They *could* make a lot of money by helping existing customers that are already considering dumping Solaris (or Irix) deal with the migrations and getting their foot in the door on supporting the new hardware and OS. But that requires forethought and vision, and I'm afraid Sun's management just doesn't get it.
...organizations with serious management.
Which are, in my experience, few and far between.
"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."
Believe it or not, Sun IS good for Linux.
Sun has quietly been giving some assistance to the "corporate" Linux developers. Sun makes its money on hardware, and witha majority of the younger generation coming into the job market with a strong knowledge of Linux, Sun is smart enough to know that their OS (which they don't make money from) has its days numbered.
Sun's best bet is that they gradually convert Solaris to a more Linux-like system if not going Linux entirely.
Why do you think they were going to drop Solaris x86? Why do you think they didn;t complain when people started porting the Linux OS to the Sparc platform? Why do you think Sun GAVE machines to people porting Linux to Sparc brand-new systems to continue their work? Why do you think since Solaris 2.6, the Sun OS has started to go back to its BSD roots and take on more of the Linux characteristics? Why do you think that with Solaris 3.0 the OS is going to have a more RPM-like system of patches and installs instead of the antiquated PKGS?
Think about it...
As someone who recently had some admin work to do on a Cobalt RaQ3 I can only testify to the bone headedness of SUN's Linux efforts. I have the following points to make about SUN in relation to their so called Linux efforts:
.pkg installer. Considering that the system is based on the RPM system one does wonder why they didn't go a more compatible route.
It is nigh on impossible to get updates for third party packages (.pkg's) for older Cobalt machines. Cobalt had the brilliant idea of making a web browser based admin interface, thereby supposedly making it easy for newbies to administer the machine. This has the tangential effect of making the machines vulnerable to cracking (like IIS) because the admins have no idea of what they're doing and what they should be updating. Turning the machines over to someone who knows what bash is doesn't help immediately because installing software from the commandline is difficult as the whole system has been modified by SUN to make it difficult to get those CLI installs reflected in the web interface.
The news groups and online Cobalt boards of full of irate users asking for help, and , more importantly, not getting much from SUN. Almost all help is from other users. It took me almost three days of constant searching to find SUN documentation on how to roll my own
I needed a PHP update and a custom Webalizer in German. The PHP "make install" exited with an APXS error and after about a week someone told me that the Cobalt APXS script is buggy and outdated, after which I managed to do the install by hand. The Webalizer compilation was less error prone but the fact that I had to do it and the PHP installation by hand because there were no packages available says legions about SUN's commitment to the platform.
To get help from SUN you have to pay, and considering that you already payed for the machine and ISP costs etc, it is a slap in the face.
The experience was frustrating and only strangthened my conviction that SUN has almost no idea of what consumers and smaller operators want, and possibly that SUN will go out of the market because of this if they carry on in this manner.
"And the question is: How will this affect projects like OpenOffice release and the on-again, off-again McNealy Linux relationship."
Who cares!!! First priority is to get some new people in there that can make a difference and get their stock out of the shitter.
-Mark
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
i would rephrase my arguments if i were you. nuff said.
Sun is facing an inexorable onslaught.
If they thought "Wintel" was creeping up their food chain, "Lintel" is lower priced still and hungrier for the UNIX market.
Sun needs to capitalize on its UNIX experience and to become part of the Linux solution, rather than reactively viewing circumstances as the Linux problem. They've made some good moves already, in terms of StarOffice acquisition and having some developers work on Gnome. But they need a coordinated vision that puts everything together. E15K database ervers working well with Linux server appliances which interact well through all the built-up Unix infrastructure (NFS, etc.)
IBM and HP have already seen the handwriting on the wall and are doing things to take advantage of the shifts going on in the marketplace.
Sun certainly has a lot to offer, they should put someone in charge who knows how to leverage that UNIX experience and to grow new markets based on their existing network of sales staff.
Java could figure prominently in such a strategy; but promoting Linux on SPARC seems to be more of an uphill battle, AFAICT.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Sarcstic you are!
It appears to me that Sun has decided to focus attention to solaris and money. I would suggest that the openoffice developers and those that work for sun in linux department to look for other jobs as soon as possible.
They announced this on the radio during the stock market news on my drive in this morning. The guy doing the reporting said: "Sun goes through executives faster than french pastries at a Weighwatcher's convention."
Doh!
...they'd embrace the upcoming AMD Hammer architecture and build high-end Linux/Hammer workstations and entry- to mid-level servers around them. Kind of a Sun/Linux meets Apple deal: clean product line, not a lot of overlap, well designed, very cool. I say Linux rather than Solaris if only because it's impossible to do Solaris/x86 device drivers for everything, whereas Linux has a decent chance.
Of course, that'd freak out their SPARC people, so they'll never do it. Pity.
I'm telling you people, Sun has kicked off the quarter by announcing a new "Insanity First" initiative within the company. Nobody believes me. Here's a brief run-down of corporate goals within the next 4-8 months:
1) Replace all technical staff with tigers.
2) Replace the tigers with African bushmen who communicate with clicks and grunts. Scrap x86 Solaris, and release "Solaris For Hamsters, Gerbils, And Other Small Rodents". Meanwhile, move the tigers over to Technical Support to handle incoming calls.
3) Include a free copy of "The 1979 Guinness Book Of World Records" with every purchase order under over $3,000,000, with every instance of the word "from" highlighted.
4) One word: Mebibytes!!
5) Begin intentionally misrouting customer purchase orders and inventory shipments. Establish two divisions within the company, the Product Obfuscation Division, and the Product De-Obfucscation Division, overseen by a third division called "Buh". Staff all three departments with goats.
6) Give the goats stock options.
7) Pour billions of dollars into quantumcomputing with one simple goal -- To write an infinite loop that fires and re-hires Scott McNealy billions of times per second, so when the shit hits the fan, its impossible to determine whether or not he was in charge the moment any non-profitable decision was made.
8) Buy Compaq.
9) Cut off all business relations with any company that has the letter "B" in its name. Refer to all the companies who remain as "The Divine Council Of Broktou."
10) Stop selling Linux on the grounds that it screws up the company's expense reports. When you sell a free product, the profit margain is infinite, and Excel doesn't know how to handle that sort of math.
Cheers,
Bowie J. Poag
Can the Intel compilers(c++/f95) be made to run under FreeBSD?
P.S. There's a new version out this week, version 6.01.
>> the on-again, off-again McNealy Linux relationship.
Suspect Scott's going to be having an on-again, off-again relationship with Carly or Lou before this is all through.
Woah, an executive just departed from a large company?
This is a rare opportunity, people. Party's at my place.
------
Today's Top Deals
What has Sun ever done for linux really?
Linux doesn't need Sun. Sun needs Linux. and I'm being very objective about that. I'm no free software zealot by any stretch, but free software has this self-renewing momentum that every other company wishes they could immitate.
1. Find a way to turn Java into a cash cow. There's almost no chance of this happening.
2. Make Solaris/SPARC a cost effective competitor with Intel architecture boxes running Linux. This will only be possible at the very high end, as Intel (and AMD) architecture systems keep getting faster and Linux's SMP capabilities keep improving. Sun doesn't even have a clear edge on the service front, thanks to companies like IBM on the server high end, HPaq in the middle, and Dell on the low end.
3. Embrace Linux and find a way to turn it into gold, essentially the "mini-IBM" strategy. There are serious questions about whether Sun has the corporate culture needed to embrace Linux this fully, or if it's even possible for a company of their size to pull it off.
...now with automatic URL filling and submit, like a real gateway should:
w . ytimes.com/2002/05/02/technology/02SUN.html&submit
http://www.majcher.com/nytview.html?url=http://ww
They may have lost their Linux Exec, but they recently acquired Whitfield Diffie! (For those not aware, Whitfield Diffie is one of the inventors of public-key cryptography, the technology used in PGP and elsewhere)
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
DeWitt, was a very talented CEO and did great things for Cobalt.
His leaving will have absolutely NO direct effect on Open Office (there's a political assumption made by the poster that doesn't fit), and might be a good thing for Linux in Cobalt.
In fact, the sooner Sun realizes it is in a very difficult position because of x86 Linux, the better. The Cobalt appliances are overpriced and underpowered, the Cobalt line has all sorts of issues, the not the least of which is a non-standard distribution. Standard Distribution is what the customer wants, not an appliance. Linux seems to be eating Sun's lunch as much, if not more, than NT.
The Solaris faction will never allow Linux to co-exist peacefully within Sun, the SPARC faction will never adopt x86, not to mention push x86 Linux, so neither the software side nor the hardware side, politically, will ever truly adopt Linux.
Furthermore, the sales force is keen on the BIG hardware sale. No Sun sales person wants to sell a $2,000 x86 Linux box.
About the best thing you can say for Linux within Sun is there's a small amount of hope that the former iPlanet team will maintain some semblance of autonomy with regards to OS support for their software. Unfortunately, Sun marketing can't position them to gain mindshare against competing technologies, so the hope is fairly small (and I might add that the ONLY reason that iPlanet has any real non-Solaris support is because it's the Netscape Enterprise stuff).
No, Sun is not in a good position as Linux starts charging into it's space. It's already killed the small workstation market for them (mmmmm.... IPC), UNIX shops that were buying SPARC 20s in the mid 90s for IP services have mostly migrated to some "free" UNIX on x86, and now IBM is pushing big Linux iron (FYI, there was a point not too long ago when IBM Global sold more SPARC than Sun sales force.... interesting when viewing the ramifications of IBM's Linux Lovin'). I've made assumptions here about Linux being able to succeed in what's left in Sun's core space, but I'd imagine that by now IBM, Dell, and HPAQ have all realized that the sooner they are able to push x86 Linux into competition with Sun where they've reallly had little, the better. After all, to these guys, it's all about either volume (Dell) or services (IBM/HPAQ). Dell's a price point leader with good enough quality, and IBM/HPAQ realize that (at least in the "enterprise space" they both have big profitable niche's outside of where they compete with Sun and their services arm) their hardware/software efforts are simply the tools to sell more services, and if they can sell hardware/software profitably, good for those business units.
A Sun shareholder or fan can only hope that these mix ups bring about a new focus from within Sun - but frankly McNealy will have to turn the charging elephant, it'll take a heck of a turnaround with HUGE amounts of organizational change.
"oohhh... I didn't know Schopenhauer was a philosopher!"
"You gotta pay for having me wearing this." - McNealy
Printing $50,000 Solaris CD binders is a major source of profit for Sun, and they are not in a position to endanger any sources of profit right now.
Linux is already putting the big hurt on Solaris' server marketshare. Remember, unlike Microsoft, Sun is in the untenable position of competing _directly_ with a free product. Solaris X86 was a response to the nascent Linux threat (a dismal failure, as any closed source product was bound to be, even if it didn't suck goat ass to begin with). The disastrous reluctance to support Linux Java was another byproduct of Linux Paranoia at Sun.
But the Java issue clarified things a bit for the Sun people. They saw that trying to isolate and marginalize Linux would hurt Java, and then began to realize that it could hurt their whole company. They began to wonder if Linux's rise might be inexorable. Inevitable. That was when things started to change. The Cobalt acquisition, the Gnome support, the Open Office work... and of course the tier 1 Java support.
But when hard times come, people look at the P&L and they get the Fear. Bold, risky moves like moving towards Linux start to be questioned. You become desperate about the bottom line _right now_. I don't know if this is why DeWitt left or not, but I imagine what he represents could be feared inside Sun.
I expect cooler heads to prevail, eventually. Sun will continue to sell Solaris forever. But eventually, when the numbers finally work out, they will start offering "Sun Linux," hopefully with some useful "value adds," on progressively more expensive hardware, and as Solaris 3rd party development slows and Linux 3rd party development accellerates, Solaris will eventually be relegated to legacy status, and hopefully by then Sun will have emulated IBM's rise into the services sector.
We're on the road to Tycho.
I think we may be missing the point. Although DeWitt used Linux in the Cobalt boxes, I don't think he was really a proponent of Linux. I remember reading an interview with him where he basically said he used Linux because it was there and free, but that the important thing was the appliance nature of Cobalts products not the OS. Did Cobalt ever GPL their html interface?
Also lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) wrote: :-) The main reasons that Linux is faster than commercial Unices:
OK, I think I can handle this. Tell your friend that I used to work at SunSoft, in the kernel group, I did posix, ufs clustering, the sun source mgmt system, started 100baseT, architected the cluster product line (from which came vlans which I invented), etc. I think my credentials are probably enough to impress a sys admin
* the system call entry is a better design. All Unix systems other than Linux use the design done by Bell Labs 20 years ago and the Linux design is simply lighter - it approaches a procedure call in cost. The complaint is always that Linux can't possibly be supporting all the features, such as restartable system calls, if it is that fast. Those claims turn out to be false - Linux supports the same features, including security, as any commercial Unix. It's just designed better. And commercial Unices are starting to pick up the ideas.
* Linux kernel hacks count instructions and cache misses and eliminate them. This is a biggy. When each "feature" is added into a kernel, people will do gross measurement to show that it made no difference. And each feature doesn't make a measurable difference - one or two more cache misses in a code path won't show up. But do that a 100 times and all the "features" taken together start to hurt. Linux is far ahead of the rest of the world, including NT, in that Linus and the other senior kernel folks do not kid themselves that a cache miss here and there doesn't matter. I frequently see the Linux development effort keep working at it until the feature they are working on can not go faster because it is running at hardware speeds - there is no more room for optimization. Contrast that with the commercial approach of "well, it didn't slow down for me" and you can start to see how things get out of hand. Kudos to Linus, David and Alan for being the smartest coders in this regard. I'd like to be that good.
* Linux is a redesign. Many ideas have been rethought using current thinking. All other Unix implementations (exceptions are things like QNX - which also performs at Linux like speeds and has also been shown to be posix/xpg4 etc compliant) are basically the same under the covers. It isn't surprising that fresh minds can do better - one would hope that we have learned something in 20 years
http://www.ultralinux.org/faq.html#q_1_15
user: qwerty474, passwd: qwerty
enjoy!
"In a hierarchy every employee will rise to his level of incompetence". The Peter Principle
And here i was wondering for a while how he left on two different days. =\
After all, its open, out there, and not going anywhere.
Hey, I'm just your average shit and piss factory.
Not supporting linux means fighting not just one or two companies, but an entire economy. Intel. AMD. IBM. HP. Dell. There's just no way that Sun can win this battle. None.
The bottom line is that any platform business is hosed once their platform falls from grace. SGI is a classic example.
Sun is doomed.
Sun is simply in a no-win situation. They are the next SGI.
Who do you think linux will destroy first...a server company or a client software/OS company?
The long term vision is all well and good, but Sun stock is taking a beating, server sales are down and they are losing market share. The pressure is on McNealy to act fast to get Sun hardware and software sales up, not to promote some altruistic future vision. He knows this. So did Zander, and so did the linux guy who left. Their departures are no coincidence - look to see Sun go on the attack in the short term against anything but Sparc/Solaris. Anything but and there is going to be a shareholder revolt with McNealy's head on a plater.
The moment that Sun releases the Solaris kernel, or a portion of it that scales to 8 cpus (i.e., the "Free Solaris" standard version) in an open license, either BSD or GPL, they will kill Linux.
Apple is becomming a server threat. If Sun distributes a free Solaris kernel that is difficult to scale beyond 8 cpus that Apple takes up, Sun might be able to relegate Apple to the low end of the market, and give Apple vendors a high-end migration path. Apple is already rumored to be maintaining a SPARC port of Mac OS X and is dissatisfied with POWER.
AMD is adopting a NUMA architecture. If Sun works with AMD on a NUMA Solaris, design decisions there may provide Sun with new ideas for the SPARC line (for which they now will not report TPC-C scores, presumably because of shame).
Sun could also kill the Itanium UNIXen (HP-UX, AIX 5L, a future Tru64, and even OpenVMS) with a free Solaris kernel for ia64.
Sun must investigate the question of embedding Solaris technology in the products of other vendors (Apple and Red Hat immediately come to mind), preferably through an open license. The growth of Sun's server market will stagnate without such an envigorating act.
Sun is the next SGI. They're hosed.
McNealy needs to put results on the balance sheet NOW, not in two years, NOW. That means dumping anything that is not a cash cow. Shareholders want this mean's head on a plate and he can't afford to look much further than the next two quarters for some relief.
Secondly, linux has a huge amount of momentum in the open source community. Arguably it is killing even the BSDs. It is doubtful that a newly opened OS could take away much of the mindshare at this point - the people working on linux have invested to much of themselves just to drop it.
Printing $50,000 Solaris CD binders is a major source of profit for Sun...
Since when did Solaris media cost $50,000?
Today, $50,000 would be about 500 to 1000 licenses...this is probably the top 3% of Sun installations. I'd figure Sun gets more money from that other 97%.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
the on-again, off-again McNealy Linux relationship.
Well, maybe if Scott picked up his socks once in a while, and his drunk friends stopped showing up at all hours of the night, our relationship would be a little more long-term.
Sincerely,
Linux
Background:
;) so believe or disbelieve the following at your whim.
...
... but I would be surprised to see another major Qube product (ie, new hardware) for another 8-16 months.
I worked for Cobalt from before they went public until about 6 months after the merger. I moved away from the Cobalt business but I still maintain close ties with people who work directly for the Cobalt business unit within Sun. To keep anyone from getting in trouble, I'll stay anonymous (too bad, the karma would have been nice
Perspective on Mr. Dewitt:
* Stephen Dewitt did tremendous things for Cobalt when they were their own company. He helped bring them public in a big way and had the vision to sell to Sun for a large amount just before Cobalt's main markets (ISPs and small VARs) tanked in early 2001.
* However, once the merger happened, Mr. Dewitt was moved a couple of steps above the Cobalt business unit to lead Edge computing. He was in a much more visionary position than he was with Cobalt and had very little to do with day to day operations. Most of the Cobalt and Linux folk within Sun had heard nothing from him for months before he resigned as he was focused more on edge computing strategies than specific products.
* It's quite possible he was just being graceful and staying around long enough to make sure that the Cobalt unit got incorporated as smoothly as possible before he went on to find the next company to lead. Mr. Dewitt is not one to easily accept going from being a CEO to being a vice president, even of a very large company.
Perspective on Cobalt:
* Between the market collapses and a very complicated merger, Cobalt products have suffered. They are probably a year behind where they would be if neither event had happened. However, if they hadn't been bought by Sun, they also could have easily disappeared when the bubble popped, so overall it was probably a wise move.
As for Cobalt products
* The Qube product got some pretty major feature additions back in February which were given out free to anyone with an older Qube 3. Not bad
* There have been allusions to a new RaQ-like product that will probably be released sometime this month that will be on par with the appliances that IBM announced last week based on the X series and Sphera software. I don't have much more details, but expect a refresh of that product line soon.
* Expect to see a new product from Sun by the end of summer that is a general purpose box similar to the 1U boxes from IBM/Compaq/etc. No real details here but I know that the Cobalt unit is the part of Sun that is running with this project (at least as of 6 weeks ago). It doesn't sound like Sun has alot of other resources working on Linux (except for their Blade project, which is a while off in the distance) but hopefully if this product line takes off it will cement Cobalt's position within Sun.
Heck, I might even try to go back if they look to be stable after the general purpose box, I jumped ship when the rumors of lay offs (which happened a couple months later) got too strong.
Linux is becoming increasing irrelevant. Stupid hacks like the ones Larry I-got-fired-from-both-Sun-AND-SGI mentioned just don't matter. It appears *linux kernel wannabes just don't GET IT. They keep reinventing what's already in BSD and deluding themselves into thinking they have an advanced new OS, ha ha. No wonder *linux is dying. Everyone who knows better is switching to FreeBSD.
The licensing structure is broken up so that, depending on your needs (compiler, etc), you have to buy many pieces separately. Hence, "binder." The full suite, as far as I am told is far in excess of $50,000.
I'd welcome actual references to the contrary.
We're on the road to Tycho.
What if you took Red Hat Linux 7.2, removed the Linux kernel, and substituted the Solaris kernel?
On x86, you would immediately have 8-cpu scalability with no problem, with much greater efficiency than RH Advanced Server.
However, if you needed greater than 8-cpu scalability, porting Red Hat/Solaris to an e15k would give you a max of 106 cpus in a system architecture originally designed by Cray.
In other words, Sun could get control of the low end, provide a market-wide migration path to SPARC, and cut the throat of any high-end UNIX on Intel. They would instantly own the "Linux momentum."
They need to do it now. Right now.
This is retirement season at Sun. They tend to change things up and do re-orgs when their fiscal year rolls over in July. About this time, they need to stary announcing what these changes are going to be. This means that when Ed Zander tell Scott he'd like to retire sometime last year. Scott says, "sure, we'll let the world know end of April/early may." That's why these changes tend to come in bunches for Sun at this time of year.
The other big thing is that Sun does best when it has it's back to the wall. Look at it's history and time and time again, people have said Sun will be dead in 2 or 3 years. It has thusfar managed to reinvent itself. It's in that position now. It has changed it's look (purple is gone), is rebranding its product line and knows it needs to play well with Linux. That their Linux head is leaving might indicate either a frustration with Sun from him, or a new dedication to Linux from Sun. Sun might want to see more from that group. Or it might be folding it's Linux efforts in closer to the Solaris group.
Sun sees itself as having survived the nastiest downturn it has faced. It's letting people leave who wanted to leave a year and a half ago. It's also gearing up to reinvent itself and go kick butt. I think it's going to be fun to watch and see if they pull it off or not.
Cobalt Developer Site (where you can follow the step-by-step instructions to roll your own packages
Pkgmaster.com -- pre-packaged versions of Webalizer and PHP 4.1.2 for Cobalts (and others)
cobalt-users mailing list, where you can find help on all of the above topics
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
Email that went out to many Sun customers from their representatives.
-
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 11:09 AM
To: *censored*
Subject: *** Sun Senior Management Transition ***
May 1, 2002
Dear *censored*:
Recently, you may have read about the management changes at Sun. We'd
like to explain what these will mean to you, and how they will
strengthen Sun both for the short and long run.
The announcements that we have made were planned, and we would like to
assure you that:
* Sun's strategy and direction remain unchanged. We have
simplified our management structure to better reflect the
changing needs of our customers.
* This is the result of a succession planning process in which
Sun has invested as part of our responsibility to customers,
shareholders and employees -- as you would expect from a 20
year-old company.
* Sun's new leaders represent the best in the industry, and
have been groomed for their new roles. Current executives are
committed both to remain in their roles until the end of our
fiscal year, and to Sun's success.
* Our commitment to provide you with the best quality products
and services to meet your business needs is stronger than
ever.
Thanks to your loyalty and support we are a leader in our industry
today. You can be assured of our continued commitment to your business.
We look forward to working with you to accomplish your goals long into
the future.
And as always, if you have any questions or suggestions please feel
free to contact any member of your Sun account team or the Sun
management team.
Sincerely,
*censored*
*censored* Corporate Account Manager
On behalf of:
Scott McNealy, Chairman and CEO
"The licensing structure is broken up so that, depending on your needs (compiler, etc), you have to buy many pieces separately."
Yes the Sun compiler is separate (GCC comes with Solaris). A logging UNIX file system with concurrent direct I/O comes with Solaris. Disk mangement software comes with Solaris. CDE and Motif come with Solaris. A 200,000 entry commercial grade iPlanet LDAP server comes with Solaris (that's a $400,000 value if purchased separately).
A Solaris license for 1 to 8 CPUs is $0.
The Solaris media kit is $75.
The Forte C/C++ Workshop, single user: $1,995.00
"The full suite, as far as I am told is far in excess of $50,000."
Don't believe everything you hear.
The total software cost (for an 8-CPU or less system) with the Sun compiler is $2,070, or $75 with GCC.
Even if you added the Veritas Volume Manager and Veritas File system and upgraded the compiler to the Forte Enterprise Edition the total cost would be $17,560.
Of course, you could have found this information yourself at http://store.sun.com/.
The full suite, as far as I am told is far in excess of $50,000.
That's a binder almost no one buys. Solaris comes with so much by default (<$100), that additional software is really on an if-needed basis. Even then, there are Free alternatives to much of it.
For example, Forte is a really good compiler for UltraSPARC processors, but GCC is workable and is free. iPlanet is a really good application server, but Apache, Tomcat, and jBoss are workable and are free.
Buy the commercial stuff when it is warranted; use the free stuff when you just need to get by.
In short, the only time I've seen someone spend $50,000 on software is for commercial databases, high-end CAD systems, commercial application servers, or (jokingly) all the stuff needed to make Windows useful.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
I know these links. .pkgs. It isn't advertised anywhere.
It took me a while to find the info on rolling the
The PHP link is for PHP for the Raq4. I was referring to a Raq3!
The mailing list is full of users bitching about the fact that SUN doesn't help much. Thanks, I did subscribe.
I don't normally post just watch. You should do more research other than post conspiracies on this site. SkUNk will not give their source to their kernel and the reasons are:
/. and saw the new release on OpenSun, FreeSun, EasySun etc. (Oops I think I just shot myself in the foot, again.) People would burn their licenses like a bad habit.
* SkUNk has too much pride. $McNealy$ is too much of a pea-brain. (Gates will clown forever and ever and ever.)
* How would Scott feel if he woke up tomorrow and went to
* Its not like if SkUNk was a startup. They are an established international company. SkUNk is the M$ of *nx. (OK, lets give our source so small companies can offer better support and charge less. Yes, this is the solution its so brilliant thanks emil.)
* Believe it or not, but SkUNk's intentions regarding cobalt are to kill cobalt and get people's mind off linux. Look at vasoftware, what you think SkUNk had nothing to do with them jumping off the hardware market. Sometimes you have to take these risks even if it means to spend millions on a company to kill. This is not a conspiracy it is so true. Cobalt has not been profitable for the longest and SkUNk laid off almost all Cobalt employees.
To Tami? Ew, gross. :P
Thank you. It's been a little while since I've been around a big Sun purchase; Things have obviously changed a bit.
We're on the road to Tycho.
In fact, now that I think about it, a dramatic decline in the price of Solaris, and an equally dramatic increase in the features included in the base package, fits with the big picture.
We're on the road to Tycho.
How about some decent visual development tools. How about making Java accessible to the VB monkeys? Why did they completely concede that market to IBM/whoever? Why do they keep writing free "reference implementations" while BEAS sells their shitty WebLogic for 40K+? There are a ton of people making money selling support/add-ons for Java.
Maybe Sun should spin off Java, that way they can drop the act of not competing with other Java-based products, and go full bore to really develop some useful Java products.
Be aware that Linux isn't the only non-commercial UNIX OS in the world
Who said Linux was non commercial? Most of the more popular Linux distribution are produced for commercial reasons. I think the word you are looking for is Open Source or Free.
Sun must then find a way to make pigs fly to force Mircosoft to stop making software and start growing pineapples in the south pacific. Then Intel will move headquaters to Alaska to start producing goat cheese for starving kids in Pilly'. This will lead an open path for RedHat Solaris to rule the world on AMD designed 8 way Sparcs machines with cases designed by Appple.
The journey is better then the end.
As an admin/developer who's worked on every SUN box up to 10K, I think what people are missing here is that SUN made a bet against the hardware -- x86 hardware has simply become too cheap, fast and reliable too quickly for SUN to effectively compete against it. x86 *nix is simply leveraged against R&D for the PC market, and therefore by every sale of a personal computer, regardless of what OS it's sold with.
So bitch, moan, rail and beat your chest against Micro Smurfs all you want - they're your greatest unintended supporters; with an Open Source / Free Beer Fountain methodology, I'm afraid that the likes of Linux / *nix will make RSM's dreams and rhetoric seem puny in only a decade.
Note1: This comes from a dyed in the wool Solaris geek, who noticed that all of the innovation in the OS was a rip-off from / "cooperative effort" with GNU/Linux types when the Linux kernel turned 2.0.
CAVEAT: That is to say, all of the shit that worked reliably, or that I might actually need to develop anything useful with, not including the possible exception of JAVA.