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Ask Alan Cox, Activist
Alan Cox is one of the world's most famous Linux kernel hackers. Lately he's been speaking out quite a bit on issues like copyright law, software patents, and the future of Linux, and has generally become a bit more politically active, at least in the public eye, than he was in the past. Slashdot interviewed Alan back in 1999. Lots of things have changed since then, but our interview procedure hasn't; one question per post, we send 10 of the highest-moderated ones to Alan, and post his answers verbatim as soon as he gets them back to us.
What are your feelings on something like GeekPAC?
Alan, you are a popular icon within the Linux/Open Source world, but, to be frank, outside that you aren't well known at all. Are you depending on your Linux fame to help you with your political quests, or are you trying to get fame outside the Linux world? Perhaps you are looking for someone outside the Linux world to help you out on the political side?
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Given that you won't visit the USA given the enactment of the DMCA. If the DMCA equivalent passes in Europe, will you move? If so, is there anywhere that is safe from this kind of insane law (it sounds like peru may be a new haven for free software)?
Who's face would you most prefer on your own personal dartboard? Why?
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
With free versions of software such as Open Office constantly improving, what place do you perceive commercial software to have in the free software world as free alternatives mature to an acceptable and usable state?
Alan,
I've been programming a computer since I was 8 years old. I'm 29 now. That's 21 years of "experience". Lately, however, I've come to the realization that I'm never going to make it "big" unless I grow a Big Ole Programmer's Beard. I'd like to think it's possible to be a wise UNIX guru without one, but I think it would be easier if I had a beard. A big one.
My question is: Since my wife won't let me grow the Big Ole Programmer's Beard, what should I do to make it "big" in the world of UNIX gurus?
Alan:
What do you see as being the most important developmental direction that Linux will take over the next 5 years?
Big iron, embedded systems, desktops, PDAs, gaming system OS? Application suites, fixed use applications, games?
In a world where politicians are a taxable asset (ok, no - but they ought to be), how do you expect anything that you push to work? DMCA is a very easy to find example. If you were to speak out against that, how would you do that so as to have an actual impact? Money talks really loud, and unless we're taking up bribes...
SIG: HUP
In regards to restrictive (to put it lightly) legislation like the CBDTPA: Do you think that some sort of compromise could or should be worked out with the proponents of such legislation? That would probably be the best way to win over moderates in the Senate. Or should all efforts be taken to stop such legislation as a matter of principle? I'm just asking where you want to draw the line between practicality and principle (think politics).
Do you feel that the current trend the Government is showing of providing more protection to Big Business over consumers/American Public is in violation of the Rights of the People that the Government is supposed to be in place to protect? Do you think that the Government will ever get rid of the DMCA and other bills protecting Businesses over Consumer's Rights and start to protect the people they were sworn to protect?
Mr. Cox -
Your famous series of -AC kernel patches is described by most as being much more experimental than Linus's kernels. Do you feel that Linux should be an experimental OS rather than one which is designed for production use? Or do you write these patches to take Linux closer to (or beyond it's limits) in the spirit of kernel hacking?
With the rise of KDE3, increased user friendlyness and "simple" distros such as Mandrake and Lindows. Do you belive the development of Linux and the open source comunity would be harmed in any way, if Linux ever became mainstream?
Look a monkey!
I'm a supporter of direct action myself, and see a lot more utility in public debate & protest than I do in politics.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
As a whole Linux companies where hit hard when the "tech bubble" burst. Where do you think Linux companies need to head to avoid the fate of a BeOS or OS/Warp?
Alan-
What is the goal you hope to obtain in regard to the DMCA dispute? How to you intend to meet those goals ?
Personally, I think that as time passes, people will become more and more technical and eventually the absurdity of the DMCA will be exposed on a more general population than just the techies that it is now. So the nest means to an end IMHO is educating the general public. Is this your intention?
-Troy
Would be interesting if Alan Cox Answers the same questions of the last interview after 3 years.
In your mind, when does a license stop allowing you enough freedom to work with it, that is develop code underneath that license? (e.g. GPL, LGPL, BSD, or some other less restrictive license that allows for intergration with proprietary software)
Mr Cox:
What are your feelings on microkernels vs. monolithic kernels? Linux attempts to be both through the use of loadable modules; is this an ideal answer to the question? How do you define what is an essential component of an operating system kernel?
Over the last year, the Linux kernel has been developing more branches.
With more branches of the kernel popping up all the time, are you concerned with managing a stable kernel with the latest drivers? What problems with kernel tree management do you see in the future!
PS: DCMA SUCKS!
I take no responsibility for what I say. Even though I'm never wrong
As someone in the Information Security field, I am constantly working to improve the security of Linux machines.
One of the low points of Linux administration is that very few daemons are chroot'd, and the few that are, dont have much protection because of the Linux kernel's very weak chroot protection.
Projects like OpenWall, GRSecurity, and SELinux (from the NSA), all attempt different solutions to this problem.
Of course, they are all incompatible with each other, but the problem remains that the Linux kernel, as shipped by RedHat is insecure when it comes to chroot protection.
Will this ever change, does RedHat care, and if so, which of these projects do you personally feel is most appropriate to lead the way in the future?
GPL'd web-based tradewars themed space game
I think its important question regarding the image of open source activists and corporations.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
There are many plagues that threaten the open-source community and even the software industry in general. There are software patents, DMCA and the like, frivolous lawsuits, MS bullying to name a few. In your opinion which one is the most dangerous? Also, what do you think is the best way to fight it?
Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
Alan, I use a Mac at work for general administrative work and some desktop publishing. At home, I use Windows, mostly for gaming and surfing the net. I like the idea of Linux, but am not yet convinced enough to go through any trouble to do it and then have to worry about compatability issues. What argument would you use to persuade me (and others standing on the fence)?
Can I bum a sig?
I'm a young developer with 10 years experience on programming with a MS on computer science. What can I do to live only from free programming?
------I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either.------
What are your feelings on Microsoft's .NET and any initiatives to make the technology work on Linux?
SL33ZE - Artificial Intelligence is No Match For Natural Stupidity -
Alan,
;-)
Do you have any other interests, besides Linux? I know in order to get to the "guru" status you have to be pretty dedicated to one thing. But what else do you like? Or are you a 100% Linux-kernel-hacker? I swear I saw you the other day riding a Harley.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Would you go to work for Apple if they wanted you to work on their Darwin project? If yes, explain and likewise if the answer is no.
photosMy Photostream
I admire your firm convictions and the stands you take on various issues. I also admire RedHat's stand on shipping (almost) exclusively free software. (For example, I think they didn't ship KDE for awhile when it was non-free, and they replaced Netscape with Mozilla as soon as they could. AFAIK, Netscape was the only non-free component of RedHat from 7.0 or earlier onward.)
My question is, do you feel that part of RedHat's commitment to free software is based on keeping you satisfied working with the company? Does a possibility of losing their biggest-name developer help to keep them from changing their model too drastically?
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
Have you been involved in any "Linux for development" type issues?
I would have linked to another post I made in more depth about this but I can't get at it, it's more than 25 posts ago :-(
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
The ultimate question to OSS, kernels and everything...
vi or emacs?
Plain and simple. What's your take on piracy and acceptable means to fight it?
Look a monkey!
Alan,
I read a while ago in an article on eweek.com that you were working on a mini web server that is part of the kernel, similar to what Novell has done with Netware 5.X. This would be great, enabling basic server management over http but not requiring a full-blown service to be running.
What is happening with this project? Was it abandoned, not technically feasible, or is progress being made?
Thanks in advance, and thanks for all the fine work you've put into the community!
This may sound like a rather facetious question, but in light of the latitude of development in Linux OS application (from mainstream, friendly GUI OS to embedded OS, to clustering), the recognition of just what is "Linux" may be harder and harder to define, at least in a way that doesn't confuse people who aren't knowledgable about it (or computer OS's in general).
The strengths of Linux are strengths very difficult to explain to people who don't see why Windows and Microsoft aren't good enough for everyone.
I suppose, ultimately, my question is this: has the development of Linux out-stretched it's ability to be well-defined to the general public, and if so, how can it be successfully marketed (which seems to be the competitive endgame these days)?
Cheers.
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
Whenever I read mainstream articles about Linux they seem to say have differing ideas on what's stopping Linux from becoming widely used on non-geek computers. The interface is brought up alot, and so is installation (although with the newer releases of Mandrake, Suse, and others installation shouldn't be an issue anymore). But do you think that any of these "usability" arguments are valid anymore? I've read article after article about Microsoft "pressuring" places about going with anyone else. Do you think that Linux is ready or almost ready for prime time just M$ strong arm tactics with vendors and business's keep it pushed back?
Abiit, excessit, evasit, erupit.
Do you see a possible future where Microsoft and Linux work together - not against each other?
Alan, Europa is building now, and many free software residents fear it'll adopt the American model wrt software patents, DMCA, etc. What are, in your enlighted opinion, the steps individuals can take to prevent such a thing to happen ?
Obviously, a lot of this is marketing bravado and chest-beating, with Microsoft alternately dismissing Linux (when talking to their clients about OS choices), or trumpeting Linux as a serious competitive threat (when talking to the lawyers/politicians/judges in the Antitrust trial).
In your opinion, what fundamental changes have taken place deep down in Microsoft's attitude towards Open Source/GNU software (including, but not limited to Linux as an OS), and how has that change shifted the playing field?
Your Servant, B. Baggins
Based on this lkml thread it sounds like you are against binary only kernel modules (e.g. the National Instruments GPIB driver). What is your stance on the legality, morality, and practicality of binary only kernel modules? Specifically, is a binary only kernel module a violation of the GPL or DMCA, and if so, why? Isn't a binary kernel module driver better than no driver at all?
What specific issue (software patents / DMCA abuses / Linux issues / other) was the "straw that broke the camel's back", such that you decided to become so much more active politically?
Thanks,
-Kasreyn
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
Alan, you were one of the coders, if not the primary coder behind AberMUD. Do you still play around with the MUD scene?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Waiting for new open source drivers to be included in the kernel is a pain in the rear-end, and when they finally arrive the hardware may even be obsolete. install proprietary drivers suplied by the manufacturer is also annoying, and usually requires a recompilation, something average users don't know how or don't want to do and finally, some hardware manufactures don't like the idea of releasing source drivers in order to protect their "secrets".
I consider this as a major impediment to the acceptance of linux as a mainstream desktop OS. don't you think is about time to create a standard, wrapper for binary drivers that'll allow hardware manufacturers to:
1- create closed source drivers;
2- make the closed source drivers kernel version independent
3- make it simple to "joe average" to install new hardware such as a video card and the related drivers ?
What ? Me, worry ?
Alan,
On the enterprise side, one of the greatest strengths of Linux has been its ability to be an extremely secure OS.
Now that Microsoft has shifted its focus to security being the top priority, and given their ability to shift gears extremely quickly and effectively (ala Internet Explorer), it is quite apparent that Microsoft will be contending for top honors in the security area within the next 2-3 years.
What impact, if any, do you perceive this having on Linux development, Linux deployment, and the Linux community in general?
Greetings Alan,
I am new to Linux and have been working on getting my system up and properly configured. The biggest stumbling block for me has been difficulty getting hardware problems properly diagnosed and correctly configured. I have talked to several people and this has been a common gripe. In my opinion, this is a major reason that Linux has not spread more quickly in the desktop arena. In your opinion, are there things that the Open Source community should do to improve this situation? Or do you feel this is entirely the fault of Hardware manufactures for not releasing better drivers/tools for their hardware under Linux?
My old sig was REALLY stoopid.
Free software programmers and the extended community are arguably the most organized non-hierarchical, grassroots constituency in the world. The community includes the tens of thousands developers and millions of endusers tightly networked through institutions like sourceforge, slashdot, countless LUGs, etc. The ability to produce projects of the scale and complexity of the Linux kernel, the Debian distribution, or the engineering behind the Internet itself is a testament to the community's ability to organize more than anything else.
Despite this incredible organizing for software production, support and distribution very little of this gets translated into the political realm. In his last slashdot interview Lawerence Lessig chided the community for this.
Organizers of traditional political campaigns for social justice or equitable distribution of power would drool over having a constituency as organized as that which we have. How do you think the community can translate its effective organizing in the technical arena into the political realm?
Piracy should be dealt with by the coast guard, or in extreme cases by the nazy.
Or were you talking about unauthorised copying ?
http://rareformnewmedia.com/
I have 50 karma points, so I need to burn some. Did you ever get picked on in high school for your name? Do you still get picked on for it? I seems to me that it must be difficult to get people to treat you seriously with a name that sounds like numerous, uhm, parts.
Why bother.
AC:
There has been much talk of linux development fragmenting. This is a real risk, but I am seeing a different story taking place that to me is of more lasting importance:
1. Apple has moved toward *nix (albeit not linux) with OS X, essentially being Borged into a free (but somewhat customized) *nix.
2. Sun seems (to me) to be having trouble with Linux eroding its user base.
3. IBM has backed linux in a big way and is reaping big dividends.
4. Linux is being moved into virtually every kind of device imaginable, from PDAs to servers to desktops to embedded systems to routers.
5. Windows servers, while very popular, are becoming harder to rationalize in terms of price/performance and (currently) security (although MS has sworn to change this).
The desktop, in corporate america and in the home, appears to be the last reservation for MS.
Is the current state of (free) *nix really this good or is this a Pollyanna summary? Is winning the desktop battle really that important anymore? Was it ever?
Guac-foo.
Lots of petrified grits
Have you ever met RMS, and if so, did your beard get tangled up with his?
You had me at "dicks fuck assholes".
being a man who has programmed a few micros
what is your favorite ?
and what do you think the future holds ?
(AMD or Intel, MIPS or ARM Sparc ???)
regards
john jones
Shawn Gordon published an essay [ http://www.linuxandmain.com/essay/sgordon.html ] on the difficulties of using a GPL licence on a product - it seems to me that the problems described are caused more by people than by the licence itself.
Stephen Figgins seems to think that Mr. Gordon is merely a whiner [ http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/1217 ] and shouldn't be charging for source.
What's your take on using the GPL on commercial software?
Desperation is a stinky cologne
Over the past year more than previous, more and more organizations have switched to Linux, however some companies (such as the Fortune 100 I work for) still struggle to get Linux in house. The question is, what technological advantage does Linux have over commercial UNIX systems? (aside from the multiple-platform idea)... and of course, what technological advancements will Linux have in the next 2-3 years that will truelly give Linux the advantage over traditional commercial UNIX systems in Fortune 100 companies where money really is not the issue?
It looks like us PC hardware hackers are likely to have a much harder time in the next ten to twenty years as the average (desktop) PC becomes increasingly integrated. I see a trend away from the PC of today towards an increasingly closed 'black box' where the components are no longer a set of cards which are easily replacable. This is inevitable, especially at the lower end of the PC market, since increasing integration leads to lower costs for the manufacturers. Correspondingly, custom hardware will become more expensive and be increasingly restricted to the high end...
How do you think such a trend away from "open" hardware would affect open source development, especially at the lower end of the spectrum? As the computer becomes more and more of a mysterious black box, do you think that the would-be hardware hackers of tomorrow are more likely to turn towards software and application development, and would this be mostly good or mostly bad for open source software (more applications/systems programmers, but fewer hardware-level programmers)?
-Malcolm.
Sen vord is thrall and thocht is fre,
Keip veill thy tonge I conseill the.
You once mentioned that how open the source was is largely irrelevant, what matters is open standards and interfaces. Apple has opened up some their code, but considering that large parts of the most important components are closed, and their interfaces are protected by patents and IP law, should OS X be seen as a threat to open computing?
Name your horror scenario:
What incidents would compose a paralyzing blow to the Linux "momentum". Do you believe Linux is immune for the loss or sudden mental illness of 10 key persons for example? Why? Or could, these core people, including you, deliver a killing blow by poisoned decisions, for example?
Why the hell doesn't anyone ask this?
Oh wait, that's not my question to AC. This is:
I haven't been able to act against the DMCA much, because I'm not an American and thus haven't got much ground to criticise the American law system (even if I'd like to). But I'm Dutch and I would love to take any opportunity to act against restricting acts within Europe, of course. I've been informed by Slashdot lately that such acts are in the making. Some guy named Alan Cox seems very exited, but the article doesn't direct me, as European citizen proposing such laws, further.
...where the heck can I go?
"We can confirm that Debian does *not* ship the version with the trojan horse. Our version predates it." [CA-2002-28]
No, I never did coding at kernel level or even in C/C++, just some Z80 assembly some 10 years ago. that's why I posted. to listen to opinions and know if it's feasible or not.
I'm specially interested in the technical aspect of this, not ideological. so let's see...
It's impossible to create a definitive interface because Linux is still evolving - impossible or dificult ? - Openness. If you allow all the binary crap in the kernel the vendors want many of its advantages will go away. - that's pure ideological. I agree that in a perfect world open source drivers for all kinds of hardware would be ideal, unfortunatly this is not a perfect world.
that's what distributions are for. They come with everything compiled as modules and the system loads what's needed? - and what about the hardware that's launched after the distro ? should I wait for my distro to release an upgrade ? NO. I want the driver included with the hardware, so does my unskilled mother.
I was stupid when choosing a video card and got a GeForce 2 MX - so did I. And I agree with you on this. NVidia's driver SUCKS. which makes me remind your first paragraph "but the fact is you can't debug something you don't know how works." which is not your job, or the job of kernel developers. is the job of driver manufacturer. something NVidia did poorly.
What ? Me, worry ?
AC has taken a stand against the DMCA and he is a European. There are a lot of us who would like to know his take on fighting some of the excesses in the US IP area that are being planned for introduction in the EU. I would include software patents in this as well.
See my journal, I write things there
Alan, after all your years in the field, what do you think is the biggest problem in Unix,and linux in general that is still unaddressed?
With things like the DCMA seeming to spread out across the world, and worse bills on the horizon, how worse do you think it is going to get before people come to their senses, and things come around. More importantly, do you see things ever turning around?
...I can't think of anything more boring and done-to-death to waste one of the 10 questions on.
-Kasreyn
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
Alan, What do you run? which kernel, window manager, desktop, widgets, editors, and favorite programs?
ntnt
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
You mean non-free, or proprietary. Why is it that so many people who seemingly care about these issues have neither used their own sense of logic to work this out already, or read what the FSF has to say about the common misuse of this term.
It's not widely publicized, but it IS happening, when lawmakers get hundreds (or more) of letters with a disticnt opinion on a topic. It puts lawmakers in the uncomfortable position of listening to voters as opposed to campaign contributors. Which is WHY it's not widely publicized - "If those darn voters start getting intersted, I'm going to have to do some real WORK, the bastards".
I think Alans comment on the EFF is off-base. The OSS community is a loose confederation of geeks ("Bazaar" in The Cathedral and the Bazaar). I don't speak for everyone, but I don't want to be associated with any one group, I enjoy the freedom and chaotic nature of OSS and the "community". Not to say I don't support some of what the EFF does, but I'll not join a group to give political power to a group when the power of the masses is of greater concern. If they have something worthwhile I want to support, I'll do it, otherwise I'll ignore it.
As long as I'm discussing geeks "acting up", why don't some folks go take a whack at RIAA?
Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
Then proove it. :-P
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
You have the answer of why linux user interfaces still have so many usability problems.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!