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Peruvian Congressman vs. Microsoft FUD
An Anonymous Coward writes: "Carve a new face on the Mount Rushmore of Linux:
Peruvian Congressman David Villanueva Nuñez brilliantly vapourizes the Chicken Little division of the MS Fud Machine.
Long read but inspiring.
Add another name to the list of people who get
that 'All that is required for Evil to triumph
is that good men do nothing.'"
Update: 05/07 00:03 GMT by T : Antonio Ognio Cesti has an update: "We are some activists working
here in Peru to bring the documents
to more eyeballs with better bandwidth." They've done just that, writing, "Now we have much better hosting in the U.S. and the original FUD letter completely translated into English."
from saturday's slashdot - read all about it. again.
I just finished it, and was submitting it to slashdot, but I see someone else got it first. The congressman's reply is truly inspired and takes apart the FUD MS has been tossing about recently. This article would probably be quite useful in educating higher-ups here in the U.S. as well.
Everytime I read the letter, I think they are talking about Bill G not the Bill. Of course, the Bill is the oppostie of what Bill wants. So in reviewing the Bill, I support the Bill because Bill doesn't like the Bill.
I think.
Was this not reported on just this past Saturday?
Second sport.
This has already appeared on the other site.
Best Slashdot Co
Sounds odd, but this is exactly what needs to happen to slap MS down a peg or two. I have read on several occasions recently that most of South and Central America are considering open-source in all government computers -- that's great! No chance in hell of it happening here in the US, but then their governments aren't propped up by corporations, either...
...we are from the government - we are here to help...
the comments on the past several stories have been far too narrow, and consequently exceeding difficult to read. Would some kind soul please expand these pages to a more acceptable width?
test
This was posted just a few days ago. Don't you editors ever check at all? /. It would benefit us all.
Sounds like there is some need for a better search engine at
"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."
Come on, this was only posted on Saturday. Doesn't anyone read Slashdot anymore?
Sailing over the event horizon
C'mon. It's Peru. It's like walking into Wisconsin.
Gates will whip out his $40 billion checkbook, and buy the whole nation outright. Then he'll change the country's name to Microsoftland, and insist that the media refer to his subjects as "'Softies." Uncooperative politicians will be sent to China in a cargo container.
Voila. End of Linux resistance in Peru.
Hey look, there's the ball over there ---->.
:P
And here's timothy over here
But wait, who's on the ball?
I dunno, but it sure ain't timothy...cuz this was posted 2 days ago.
Best. Comment. Ever. Enjoy!
Just better searchers. Type 'peruvian' in the little search box thingy and that article comes right up.
Best Slashdot Co
Not because OSS is best in *every* situation - but because in the 80% where it is the right decision, this article explains the needs to do it right (ie - have staff that is trained, pay for support), while dismissing the fears sent by proprietary companies.
The fact is, OSS is here to stay in the business, and only by really competing (ie - coming up with a better product for the price) can businesses hope to keep profitable. Of course, with more companies (Red Hat, Suse, IBM) making a profit from Open Source, the consumer will win every time.
Ah, competition. How I love thee.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
I've been trying to hit http://www.gnu.org.pe all day, with no luck. Comments about re-posting an article from Saturday aside (after all, many don't check /. til Monday morning), brief letters from tiny, foreign webservers are the sort of thing that ought to be pasted into the /. article explanation.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. --RFC 1925
He was obviously out this weekend, enjoying the pleasant weather wherever it is he lives. He comes in on Monday morning, just like you or I would, to find the submissions bin overflowing with (mostly) crap. Do you think he has time to look over all the stuff Taco et al posted over the weekend before he makes his selections?
--
E_NOSIG
Timothy and michael both showed up monday morning to Slashdot headquarters wearing khaki pants, red golf shirts, brown loafers, and even the same brand of light grey wooley socks. CmdrTaco was overheard saying, "You guys are going to need to start talking to each other before coming in to work..."
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Nested at -1 is the only way to go.
Q: What's the difference between an M-16 and /.?
A: An M-16 only repeats 100x/min.
But while we're back (still?)on the topic, has anyone translated the original FUD letter from the M$ Peru guy (might be mirrored, which the honorable Sr. Nunez so elquently rebutted, into English?
Fight for your right to read books!
Aside from that, the letter is really interesting. It's very well-written and persuasive, IMO. In fact, I have trouble believing it was written by a Congressperson for that very reason. Also, I wonder how many American legislators can write that clearly in English. Not to mention how direct the langauge is, actually avoiding the kinds of analogies and meaningless soundbites that fill American political speech.
The more I think of this, the more it says to me "hoax." Anyone have a read on the authenticity of the letter?
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
That's the funniest thing I've read in a while. Bravo.
As a non-english speaking person I found it difficult to read the article, because every time they talk about "Bill Number 1609", I see this picture of thousands of Bill Gates clones. Oh the horror! I guess I'm waiting too much fot the Attack Of The Clones.
The article says it purports to come from the senator. This does not mean that it did. Just a thought
Here is a link to the entire letter on slashdot.
Live today. Tomorrow will cost a lot more!
I love collecting quotes, does anyone know where this one came from, or do I have to atribute it to AC?
Blink
Yes, this was just posted Saturday, but I'll bet a lot of people don't look back at stuff from the weekends. That being said ...
His letter is a long way of saying, "Please decide which side of your mouth to speak out of." By the third time he pointed out, "This contradicts what you said in the previous paragraph," I had tears streaming down my face.
This contradiction alone would invalidate your position.
...
This argument repeats that already given in paragraph 5 and partly contradicts paragraph 3. For the sake of brevity we refer to the comments on those paragraphs.
...
In addition, in this paragraph you correctly point out that the service components and losses due to down-time make up the largest part of the total cost of software use, which, as you will note, contradicts your statement regarding the small value of services suggested in paragraph 3.
...
On the other hand, there certainly exist types of volume licensing (although unfortunately proprietary software does not satisfy the basic principles). But as you correctly pointed out in the immediately precding paragraph of your letter, they only manage to reduce the impact of a component which makes up no more than 8% of the total.
Nope, no sig
Yes, the guy's a genius. Yes, it's a blow. But bear in mind, if you read the entire thing, it doesn't talk about putting Linux on every public sector PC.
;P
The gist that I get is that they're definitely moving to an open-source/free office suite.
They don't really say anything about changing the OS, although I think it would make plenty of sense if they're willing to put up with the costs of re-educating every govt. employee.
Hrm. Since Nunez mentions Theo and Darren Reed, I'm guessing that Peru is going to be installing OpenBSD with ipf, not Linux as some of you might have hoped...
This influence of marketing is in large measure reduced by the bill that we are backing, since the choice within the framework proposed is based on the *technical merits* of the product and not on the effort put into commercialization by the producer; in this sense, competitvity is increased, since the smallest software producer can compete on equal terms with the most powerful corporations.
Microsoft: Why you little...! We have $40 billion dollars cash! That's a third of your GDP for one year! We will crush you!
RedHat, et al: Wait a minute, you mean we can actually compete fairly with Microsoft?
Apple: OS X has UNIX underpinnings, and is lickable!
RedHat, et al: This'll be like shooting fish in a barrel...
FreeBSD: What about me? I'm always left behind to do the real work. Why can't I be hip and flashy too?
Are there similar initiatives in any region of the US ?
The arguments put forth by the Peruvian congressmen are cut/copy/paste ready for almost any US or local government body interested in preserving freedom of information, and the security of the citizens data.
It seems that with the BSA cracking down on public schools and Microsoft's disasterous security reputation it would be time to DEMAND open and free software on systems operated in the publics interest.
"Corporate rock still sucks. What are you gonna do about it?"
I know he isn't a U.S. Citizen, but I would vote for him.
//TODO: Think of witty sig statement
Since so many /. users notice so quickly that a story is a repost, why don't the editors do the same? Do they actually read what the others ran?
/. homepage...
It might be because of the duplicates the editors see all day in the submission bin. When you read so many stories, it might be difficult to judge if you already saw it in the submission bin (and rejected it) or if it made it through to
Would a "not a repost" committee, with some regular users as members, help? They could be chosen the same way as moderators (randomly, but still based on past level of activity). This would likely catch a lot of reposts, since usually, in the first ~30 comments, half of them are complaining about the repost. If a member flags a story as repost, the editor could then verify it, and refrain from actually putting it on the frontpage and look as somebody not doing a lot of backgroung checking.
Food for thought...
we had politicians like this in Canada... sigh.
all our politicians are lawyers....
love is just extroverted narcissism
who'd of thunk IT. what with all the FraUDuleNT phony PayPer stock markup FraUDs (see also: VA lairy et AL) about to tell sum of their BiGgest/best Lies ever.
Alas, such people will never swallow their pride. It makes me sad.
I am hoping that Peru manages to reap huge financial rewards and survives some sort of electronic internet based attack from Asia while the US falls so that the intelligence behind the Peruvian decision can be shown.
it would have been even more worthwhile for me if, rather than formulating objections of a general nature [...] you had gathered solid arguments for the advantages that proprietary software could bring [...] since this would have allowed a more enlightening exchange in respect of each of our positions.
If MS would submit arguments in favor of proprietary software instead of submitting FUD in opposition to free software, then this would allow an even more enlightening exchange! Wow! Just the exchange in this letter was enlightening enough. Probably so enlightening that MS doesn't want to draw any more attention.
Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
Because Good is DUMB!
To quote some movie...
Perhaps we need to enlighten the Good populace?
Are you kidding? Peru is like walking into Wisconsin? HAH! I dare you to find a similar level (if any) of concentration of Cheese, Beer, and Harley Davidsons anywhere in Peru that comes close to that of rivaling even the smallest Unincorporated town in Wisconsin. Just because we're surrounded by these other pitiful states of Illinois and Minnesota doesn't mean that WE aren't cool, hip, and non-Peruvian. :)
I think our climate is slighly different, too.
monkey!
If you can read this, you are most likely close enough.
It was translated. The links to the original versions are at the very top of the article.
Unfortunately, the links are down, so, google cache time!
Original Response
Original Microsoft FUD Letter
Both are in Spanish, BTW.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
El mundo ha cambiado y todo es hermoso. Susanita (Quino)
What I find funny is that the people who constantly complain about reposts can't figure
out that they are doing the same thing.
That said, I have to say, "You go, Edgar!" Replies to M$ FUD needs more people like you.
-Sean
Everyone of the argument planks in the proposed bill is good, and not just for Peru. Every sovereign government based upon the ideas of representative democracy can expect similar gains if they were to follow the same principles. They are logical principles.
Free, unencumbered and open communication are the hallmarks of any society that hopes to better itself. Restricting communication to those who can afford to pay for a read/write access device, such as MS Word or Corel Wordperfect or whatever, is an inefficiency, pure and simple.
Enduring archival of public documents is, likewise, important for any society that wishes to learn from history instead of repeating the same mistakes. A written language used to be enough to guarantee such archival. Now, the essential medium is no longer paper, but the authoring and reading of documents is no longer just a matter of learning how to read and write, it's become of matter of having paid all of the taxes.
National security issues of knowing exactly what it is you are running. This is one issue that largely continues beneath the surface. It's very surprising to me that in the post 9/11 world that more hasn't been made of critical infrastructure running only programs you can see for yourself and compile for yourself.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
In conformance with this universally accepted principle, the citizen has the right to know all information held by the State and not covered by well- founded declarations of secrecy based on law. Now, software deals with information and is itself information. Information in a special form, capable of being interpreted by a machine in order to execute actions, but crucial information all the same because the citizen has a legitimate right to know, for example, how his vote is computed or his taxes calculated. And for that he must have free access to the source code and be able to prove to his satisfaction the programs used for electoral computations or calculation of his taxes.
so it is obvious that peru believes code to be speech and information, and that for all non-secretive information, the people should have access to this information.
now, the united states has the freedom of information act, which provides access to all governmental information which is not "secret", i.e. "classified". thus, should not all government computer programs be available for public inspection? how can the US government, or any other government, purport to provide this information if they use proprietary (i.e., no source) software? doesn't the freedeom of information act (i probbaly have the name wrong) demand that the public be given access to this information?
-rp
It will be very interesting to see whether MS will get any of the "free" trade orgs into this or (more likely) get the US to lean on Peru. They use words like "discriminatory" which have specific meaning with respect to international trade.
A World Trade Organization ('member the big protest in Seattle?) action would require action by the US government on MS's behalf. That's pretty unlikely given the likely size of the trade, it would probably be more trouble than its worth.
Under the in process Free Trade Area of the Americas agreement ('member the protests in Quebec City?) MS could sue Peru directly and receive compensation and overturn the law (if that statement doesn't bother you replace the word "Peru" with "US" or whatever country you live in and see how that makes you feel).
In any event its very likely that MS's Washington lobbyist corp has talked to the office of the US Trade Rep and Peru will suffer in some way for its impudence to MS.
this is his job and stuff. so he was out this weekend, thats fine. before hopping over to the submissions box, take 30 minutes or so and flip through the last couple days submissions.
maybe he doesnt get paid, it was just an assumption. if this is his hobby, that's cool. i really dont understand why they want people to pay for a service run like it is someones hobby though.
-- john
You know whenever I read Tony Blair's speeches for instance or the writings of other foreign politicians such as this one, I get a little jealous. The holder of the highest political office in this country, in addition to constantly using phrases like "evil-doers" and "smoke 'em out of their holes", says things like:
"This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating."
- G.W. Bush as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002
See http://www.bushcartoon.com/bushisms.html for more examples.
This article was originally posted on theRegister and in their posting, they do mention the phrase purportedly from Peruvian Congressman...
Can any of this actually be verified? Or are we all the subject of a anit-FUD FUD campaign put out by a very smart dude (whom I like!)
Peru giving the first world a lesson in democratic principles. Should be required reading for every candidate at every level in US politics.
illegitimii non ingravare
There is a mirror in spanish:
Hay un espejo en español:
http://www.usm.edu.ec/~amadorm/index.php?p=217&c=1
Rudd-O - http://rudd-o.com/
If only people would argue in the logical and objective demonstrated by this letter, rather than flaming on about the evils of MSFT. Amazing what it does to your level of credibility. Platform-zealots take note!
"Certainly, in any case their fortune will be determined by market laws, changes in which cannot be avoided;"
An opinion like that makes him worth more than most of the US Senators I've heard blabbing lately. Wonder if he'd consider moving north?
-beme
1971
Slashdot posts something newsworthy, every news site and mailing list in the world mirrors it, and 10,000 people submit the same story back to Slashdot, not realizing that's where it originated. Inevitably, one editor is having a slow day... Or maybe the editors' spinal cords just aren't terminated properly.
What was this about?
I've read a bit of the Federalist Papers (okay, it was just Alexander Hamilton's brilliant first paper... it goes downhill as soon as you get to John Jay's first writing) and of course we've all read the Declaration of Independence and other such great documents. And this reads like one of those documents. This guy could give lessons in what being a Democratic and Free state really means to the US Government. In fact, I think this letter should be required reading for all US Government officials.
I'd even go as far as to say we should begin a letter-writing campaign to mail copies of this to our congress-critters, to the White House, and to the national news media.
I'm going to put this on my TODO: list. I am going to draft a letter with these contents, and mail them to the people who represent me.
As the submitter said, "All that is required for Evil to triumph is that good men do nothing." I may not be a perfectly good man, but I'm going to do SOMETHING!
Unfortunatly "software libre" translates to "free software" in english. This causes the english reader to conciously have to decide the definition of free in each context in which it it used. Is it free (as in beer) ? or is it free (as in free speech) ?
It must be so much easier to make the 'free' software argument, in languages in which there are two separate and distinct words for the two distint concepts encapsulated in the english language word 'free'.
I'm contemplating the following after reading the AMAZING article: If I'm a U.S. citizen, can I sue the government for not allowing me full access to the source code of the programs that handle all my data?
Like the letter sent back to Microsoft says: how will I know that the software being used to count votes or calculate my taxes is working as it should if I don't have full access to the system running it???
I figure that anyone who takes this matter to court, and ultimately to the supreme court has a good chance at winning the case, which could eventually force congress/senate to pass a bill mandating open-source software to be used for all govergment affairs.
Any lawyers here have any comments on this?
Side note: I have to admit that this letter sent from this peruvian guy to Microsoft is one of the most amazing and clear documents I have read this year. This should be published by the Free Software Foundation and send copies to all law makers in all countries of the world (for real).
Repeat or not, this Congressman is still my hero!
Nice rebuttle!
Just lay off the editors. They've got other things to do like spending working day after working day in front of their playstations. They are also responsible for planning and resourcing trips to the movie theatre. You think that the deep and insightful movie reviews that we are lucky enough to find here just appear out of thin air?
We should be thankful that they're busy schedules allow any resources at all to be devoted to posting and researching these stories. Who can honestly say that its humanly possible for any of them to pay attention to what was posted only 24 to 48 hours ago? Any of us would surely make the same mistakes after our 10th hour of redbulled fueled Final Fantasy.
And don't you dare mention any thing like a review period or even the most simplistic of approval mechanisms for their postings. Because you would then clearly be in league with the RIAA, BillG, (or insert favorite techno-nazi here) and denying them their right to post whatever they want when they want.
Tried to see spiderman this weekend but was denied a ticket so watched 'Jason X'. One line in the movie was ultra cheezy but mildy amusing, when two of the 'soon to be dead' guys on the spaceship were discussing the mangled body all over the ship's main controls, and the one seasoned veteran engineer fellow comments cooly something to the effect of,
"This is nothing, back in the microsoft confict we were beating each other with our own limbs." He then proceeds to clear off the muck on the controls and gets down to business.
It seems that even in a future where a 450 year old re-animated zombie killing machine goes on the hunt it is'nt the worst thing that can happen
When I first saw this submission, I was tempted to flame the living hell out of the supposed hoser who posted it. Evil? Evil is not a thing for corporations. It's not a thing for Palestinians defending their homes from foes they cannot match, nor is it a thing for Israelis rolling over women and children with tanks.
The want for profit is not evil, it is simply humanity's inherent greed. From the dawn of time, we have coveted our neighbor's shiny rock, secretly wishing we had shiny rocks of our own.
Slaughter of an opposing force that you have no chance of winning against is not evil, it is simply a last, final act of desperation - the nobility of the human spirit, to look into the face of death and laugh.
The murder and rape of civillians over the pathetic ideas of religion and god is, perhaps, not evil. I would first label it idiocy, the work of simpletons who are too afraid to grasp the truth.
How then, could Microsoft be evil?
They seek the domination of the world, at least in a technological sense. They seek to enslave us all and remove from us the sacred right of choice. And that, my friends, is evil.
No one forced, say, Enron, to lie about taxes and to evade the law. The choices made were made freely. No one forces suicide bombers to give their lives for their cause, they could indeed choose to go quietly into the night. No one forces marauding soldiers to pillage and plunder, for they could ignore orders in the name of justice.
Can the idea of not being able to choose such a simple thing as software be comparable to the ruining of lives, of the abrupt violent end of civillians?
Yes. I would give my life freely to ensure that my path is my own, that my choices are not forced by any - no man, no woman, no corporation. I pity those who do not feel the same, for they have willingly given up that which no other has a right to take from them.
There is evil in Redmond that does not sleep.
he's acting in Playschool (Playhouse for the newer kids...).
..puts LONG... pauses.....in his .... scentences...
*Every* piggin' tim ehe tries to seem statesmanlike, he
Grrr.
I am seriously considering converting from windows 2000, an operating system that i have alot of experiance using to Linux, which I am a, for all personal embarresment of the word, a newbie at. I tried it onna Test box a little while back and had no luck with drivers. Is there any suggestions of a good distro that I could get started on? :)
I have just returned from Brasil (Internacional Forum Software Livre 2002, in Porto Alegre) where I had spoken at some length, with the help of different volunteer translators, with one of the people from "GNU Peru" involved in getting the original Peruvian Free Software bill drafted as well as having had read to me the original bill which unfortunately is only available in Spanish currently.
My understanding, although I am not sure if this is correct (being a second hand account, and then translated), is that when the Peruvian director for Microsoft Corporation wrote their original letter in response to this bill, that the people from "GNU Peru" had contacted Richard for additional help. Richard had suggested someone he knew in Argentina who I gathered then helped the Senator and his staff with some of the technical language in drafting this response. I do not know who this other person is, but I would personally suggest him (and the Peruvian Senator) for this year's FSF free software award if I did.
From PBS Frontline:
Under the terms of NAFTA, an environmental regulation is regarded as a "taking" and the state may have to pay a huge settlement to the manufacturer.
Nope, no sig
Holy crap. Get that congressman a Slashdot account!
-R
If any of our politicians (in the UK) had a 10th of this guy's technological awareness, debating skill, backbone, or even a desire to do what's best for our economy rather than bending over for the Microsoft shafting I might actually bother voting.
As it is though, our lot are nothing but a bunch of self-serving, hypocrytical gluttons, who'll always take the easiest/most lucrative route. It's nice to hear from someone in politics who's not a complete asshole!
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
If only the rest of us could craf our responses with such finesse...
Your Servant, B. Baggins
Gotta love the value of a subscription. :)
My espanol ain't what it used to be, but I translated the missing final paragraph as:
"So, your entire argument is reduced to a steaming sludge pot of your incomplete assumptions; the world at large has learned that you are nothing more than a third-rate slug who has hair in his nose; and your entire family suffers from the disabilitating scourge of too many years of idiot-producing interbreeding and incest. I see nothing left for you other than reconciling yourself to your general odiousness, or at best, suicide."
With free software one creates more technically qualified employment and a framework of free competence
This statement alone should form the basis for many kinds of IT decisions, not just purchasing. Absolute brilliance.
where success is only tied to the ability to offer good technical support and quality of service, one stimulates the market, and one increases the shared fund of knowledge, opening up alternatives to generate services of greater total value and a higher quality level, to the benefit of all involved: producers, service organizations, and consumers.
Hear, hear. Stating that a smarter, better informed "consumer" is a better served consumer is profound in its simplicity, and it neatly states an irrefutable argument that I think developers and admins have been trying to put into words for decades.
Would the Honorable Congressman from Peru like to assist US parties in drafting an amendment to the US constitution?
Now if we can just do the same for open-source music, the RIAA will have no reason to bitch either.
Well, I mean, they'd have a reason to bitch, but only because the potential money source that they call "stolen revenues" -- don't even get me started -- will have gone away forever. Sounds equatible to me.
GMFTatsujin
He sounds like Immanuel Kant in some of the better bits. Like the bit where he criticizes his counterparts in Mexico for taking the entirely the wrong approach.
we need more politicians like this.
(this isn't an exact quote, BTW, as the site appears slashdotted, there doesn't seem to be a google cache, and I can't be bothered checking the older story for a copy...)
and vote for this guy. He wrote in another language and even when translated it makes perfect sense.
Every time I read anything from the US congress, in English, it makes no sense.
So, should I learn Spanish and only read stuff from the US congress that has been translated? Or just give up like everybody else has?
Wow, and unlike Andover's childe, Peru didn't have to be hosted by the same company as /. for all of this exposure...
:P
Ok, here it is...
You're welcome Rob...
'All that is required for Evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.'
/. I suppose the next article we'll see timothy post will be a 3 day old piece with the quote "with great power comes great responsibility".
Jeez, I can skip the soap operas on TV and get all my melodrama right here on
Edmund Burke and Uncle Ben....
Gates: I'm the richest man on Earth, made all my money from the software business, and I'm asking you all to acquire or develop software in such a way as to make me, an *American*, even richer.
Peru: Riiiiiiiiiiight.
Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
http://www.pcworldmalta.com/specials/MSPiracy/
In Spanish naming convention, one usually has one or two first names (in this case Edgar and David) and two last names, the first from the father and the second from the mother. The person is known by his paternal lastname. Witness Jose Ortega y Gasset, Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Ramon del Valle Inclan, Miguel de Unamuno y Jugo, Lucila Godoy Alcayaga (better known as Gabriela Mistral) and many, many other cases.
(What did we do before google? ;)
http://www.pcworldmalta.com/specials/MSPiracy
PARIS (11/28/2001) - The French subsidiary of one of the world's most vocal opponents of software piracy has itself been convicted of pirating a French 3D animation program. This is the first ruling on a matter that dates back to 1995, when Microsoft Corp. bought Softimage, a 3D computer-generated image (CGI) specialist whose software violated the intellectual property of a small French software house.
The Commercial Court of Nanterre fined Microsoft France 3 million francs (US$422,000) in damage and interest for software piracy. "It's a start," said a lawyer for the plaintiffs, "although Microsoft continues to stall on the provisional execution of the judgment."
My favorite soundbite (paraphrased) is the "The MicroSoft model is anti-Republican"
One man's pink plane is another man's blue plane.
Dude, I must be psychic. I feel like I saw this exact letter on /. two days ago. Oh, wait...
Some fact-checking shows the following:
. htm) is a real member of the Congress. His email is evillanueva@congreso.gob.pe.
Congressman Edgar David Villanueva Nunez (www.congreso.gob.pe/congresista/2001/evillanueva
If you go to the page mentioned above, you will see some pictures/buttons at the top left. Click the one that shows some fingers holding a pen ('Proyectos de ley presentados'/Projects). He apparently introduced 25 pieces of legislation in the First Session in 2001, and 7 during the Second Session.
During the First Session, he introduced Bill 1609, 'Software Libre' (Free Software). It was sent to two Committees on 7 January 2002: Education, Science, & Technology, and to Consumer Protection and Public Services Regulation.
He introduced a similar bill in the Second Session, number 2485, 'Use of Free Software by the Public Administration.' As of 12 April 2002, it is in the same Committees as the first bill (1609).
I would post both Bills here, but a) they are looong, and 2) they are en espanol. So, if you want to read them.....the full text of both Bills are available through Congressman Villanueva Nunez's page.
Happy babelfishing!
This letter sets the tone in the very first paragraph with a subtle zing:
:-)
"In the same spirit, and convinced that we will find the best solutions through an exchange of clear and open ideas, I will take this opportunity to reply to the commentaries included in your letter."
Congressman David Villanueva Nuñez is clearly toying with Microsoft. "Clear and open ideas" as in open source?
"While acknowledging that opinions such as yours constitute a significant contribution, it would have been even more worthwhile for me if, rather than formulating objections of a general nature (which we will analyse in detail later) you had gathered solid arguments for the advantages that proprietary software could bring to the Peruvian State, and to its citizens in general, since this would have allowed a more enlightening exchange in respect of each of our positions."
He spanks Microsoft right away by pointing out that their objections are of a general nature (FUD) and not "solid arguments." I'm really starting to like David.
He continues by pointing out that what Peru considers the biggest advantage to open source is NOT the cost savings but the fact that Peru has control over the source code.
This is a fact. Trying to convince companies that the main benefit is cost savings will usually end up in a discussion about learning curves and support costs. However, controlling the source is a huge benefit that Microsoft can't really match. I know that large companies can sometimes get the source code from Microsoft but they really aren't allowed to do anything with it.
The letter is long and I'm not going to critique the whole thing here. Let me just sum it up by saying that this letter does a very fine job of dispelling the mainline Microsoft FUD.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
This is one of the most beautiful pieces of writing I have ever encountered... All I can say is, wow. Peru kicked MSFT's ass so hard, Bill Gates probably won't be able to sit down for a month. Now, why can't the US Congress have legislators like this ?
>|<*:=
It's worth a repost (and a reread) just in case anyone missed it the first time around. It's still news.
In NZ, we have a law firm taking Microsoft to the commerce commission for issues related to Software Assurance. He has writen a very nice brief outlining many of the issues, and it is well worth a read. Click here to read more. There are links to various letters and news articles covering this issue.
One big point that the Commerce Commission raised, is that if SA is such a big issue, why aren't bigger companies and countries picking it up?!
Villaneuva Nuñez is declaring that the People have a fundamental right to freely determine how their [computer] systems are governed.
This sounds familiar.
Whether proprietary or open source, We the People must be free to choose without constraints.
This is the Declaration of Software Independence.
--
give me liberty or give me death
"Folks just call him Buckethead." -- Les Claypool
It's nice to see someone sit down and write a refutation of Microsoft's claims that addresses each point in a calmrational manner. It seems to me that most of MS's opponents have been behaving emotionally and melodramatically in recent times, trying to sway the courts and the press to their side of the fight.
I think the OSS community could do worse than to adopt this letter as one of the resources they quote in favour of open source products.
Does anyone know the email address/contact info for Congressman Nuñez? I want to contact him and ask him to talk to the US ambassador about his letter to convince the US congress to do the same thing. Actually, if anyone out there can get in contact with him, go ahead and mention that there is at least one American citizen who would really like him to explain this to our congress. (Heck, if he was running for the US congress, I'd probably vote for him if I could...)
The American system is not a democracy. It is a constitutional republic. A democracy, if you attach meaning to terms, is a system of unlimited majority rule; the classic example is ancient Athens. And the symbol of it is the fate of Socrates, who was put to death legally, because the majority didn't like what he was saying, although he had initiated no force and had violated no one's rights.
Democracy, in short, is a form of collectivism, which denies individual rights: the majority can do whatever it wants with no restrictions. In principle, the democratic government is all-powerful. Democracy is a totalitarian manifestation; it is not a form of freedom....
The American system is a constitutionally limited republic, restricted to the protectrion of individual rights. In such a system, majority rule is applicable only to lesser details, such as the selection of certain personnel. But the majority has no say over the basic principles governing the government. It has no power to ask for or gain the infringement of individual rights.
--Leonard Peikfoff
The Bill is specific to all software used in the public domain. This means libraries, government offices, etc.
The bills main purpose is to ensure that there's no possibility of data access being dependant on a private 3rd party. The citizens entrust the goverment with their data and the goverment is making sure that they will always be able to provide it free of charge.
To not have the source code makes you 100% dependant on the company that produces it. Lets say terrorists blow up all the MS buildings and MS somehow falls off the face of the earth. 2 days later a security hole is found and a worm compromises every system running Outlook (Not hard to believe). Who will create the patch? What would happen is the US government would do like they did during Melissa and other worms. They pull the plug on internet access and data is no longer available to the people.
The other rebuttals are simply a way of giving MS the finger for trying such lame FUD tactics on a guy that's obviously technically competent and intelligent. I love it.
Go Go PERU!!!!
Representing to the fullest!
Computers are like air conditioners: they stop working when you open windows!
I'm very pleased to see that there are still politicians on this planet that care to work for a good cause. Congressman Nuñez is really trying to work to the advantage of his people, I believe - unlike Senator Hollings or Stevens, here back in the states, who are instead trying to work to the advantage of the entertainment industry (which, I do believe, made more in revunues last year than ever before).
... of the world.
Always keep a sapphire in your mind
Since Bush & co hijacked the election, and our government continues to send aid to terrorists, and our courts continue to favor the companies with $ vs. the consumers without, I've been pretty disappointed in this country, but didn't really know where things would be better.
Maybe it's time I checked out Peru. yo habla espaniol? Nicht sehr gut - uh oh!
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away" -- "Step Right Up", Tom Waits
That's the nicest way of saying "fuck you" I've ever seen :-)
There is no sig, there is only Zuul.
0vvN3d!!!!
Believe me, the letter is real, the congresman is real.
In all countries there are smart people and stupid people in congress. It is a pity that you can not believe that such an enlighten person exists.
Peru might be "financially" a thirld world country, Intellectually there is a whole lot of *very* sharp people that are trying to do good for their country.
BTW, the letter was originally written in spanish.
MS versus Slashdot?Ha Ha Ha
San Isidro, March 21st 2002
Mr:
Edgar Villanueva Nuñez
Congressman of the Republic of Peru
Presente.-
Dear sirs:
First of all, we want to thank you for the chance you gave us to inform you about our work in
the country in benefit of the public sector, always looking for the best alternatives to
achieve the implementation of programs that will let us consolidate the iniciatives of modernization
and transparency in the State.
In fact, thanks to out meeting today you are aware of our global achievements at the international
level in the design of new services for the citizen, among the framework of a model State that
respect and protects intellectual property.
This actions, as we talked about, are part of global iniciative and today exist several experiences
than have let us collaborate with programs supporting the State and community in the adoption of
technology as an strategic element to impact the life quality of the citizens.
Besides, as we arrenged in this meeting, we assisted to the forum organized in the Congress the
day March 6th regarding the law project that you are leading, where we got the chance to listen
to several presentations that takes us now to expose our position so you have a wider lanscape
of the real situation.
The proyect establishes as mandatory for every public organism the deployment of free software
exclusively, that's open-sourced software, something that transgress the principles of equality
in front of law, of no discrimination and the right of free private iniciative, freedom of industry
and contracting protected by the constitution.
The project, by making mandatory the use of open-sourced software, establishes a discriminatory
and non-competitive treatment at times of contracting and adquisitions by the public organisms
violating the base principles of the "Law of State Contracting and Adquisitions" (Number 26850)
In this way, by forcing the State to favor a business model supporting exclusively open source software,
this project is only discouraging local and internationl software manufactures who are the ones that
make the important investments for real, the ones that create a significant number of direct and
indirect jobs, besides contributing to the National Net Income vs. a model of opensource software
that tends to have every time a lower economic impact due to creating principaly jobs in the services
area.
The Law project imposes the usage of open source software without considering the dangers that
this carries from the points of vie of security,warranty and posible violation of intellectual
property of third parties.
El proyecto maneja de manera errónea los conceptos de software de código abierto, que no
necesariamente implica que sea software libre o de costo cero, llegando a realizar conclusiones
equívocas sobre ahorros para el Estado, sin ningún sustento costo beneficio que valide la posición.
The project erroneously handles the concepts of open source software that not necesary implies
that the software is free software or has no cost, arriving to wrong conclusions about money
savings by the State without the suport of any cost-benefit analysis to back this position.
It is wrong to think that Open source software is free. Research by Gartner Grouo (and important
market researcher in the technology world well-known worldwide) has poited that the cost of
software adquisition (operating system and applications) is only 8% of the total cost of ownership
that enterprises and organizations must face as consequence of rational and productive use of
technology. The other 92% is made of implantation costs, capacitation, support, management and
inoperativity.
One of the arguments that support the Law project is the supossed gratuity of opensource software
when compared to commercial software costs, without considering that exists volume licensing
models that can really benefit the State, in the way that has already been achieved in other
countries.
Additionally, the alternative adopted by the project (i) is clearly more expensive because of
the high costs of migration and (ii) puts at risk compatibility and the chance for interoperability
among informatic platforms inside the State and between the State and the public sector due to
the hundred distributions of open source software in the market.
Opensource software in the most of the cases doesn't offer adequate levels of service nor the
warranty of well-known manufacturers to achieve a bigger productivity by its users, something
that has caused many public entities to go back in their decisions of using opensource software
the ones the are using commercial software right now in its place.
This project discourages creativity in the peruvian software industry that sells US$ 40 millions
every year, exports US$ 4 millions (10th place in the ranking of peruvian exportations, more
than handcrafted goods) and is a source of highly qualified jobs. With a law pushing for the
use of opensource software, software programmers loose their rights of intellectual property
and their most important source of retribution.
Opensource software, by having the chance of being freely distributed also fails to make any
money for their developers by means of exportation. In this way, the multiplier effect of
software sales to other countries weakens affecting the grown of this local industry that the
State should be stimulating.
In the forum the importance of the use of opensource software in education was discused without
commenting on the mayor failure of this initiative in a country like Mexico, where precisely
the State officers that supported this project now say that opensource software didn't allowed
to provide a learning experience to childs at schools, the adequate levels of capacitation
nationwide were missing so no adequate support for the platform was provided and the software
didn't showed not shows nowadays the needed levels of integration with the existing platforms
at schools.
If opensource software fullfils all the requirements of the entities of the State Why
a law is needed to adopt it? Shouldn't the market freely choose which products provide
more benefits and value?
I really want to thank you for your attention to this letter and we want to reiterate our
interest in meeting you to expose to you in more details our points of view about the project
you have presented and be at your complete disposition to share experiences and information
that we are sure can help in a better analysis en implementations of an iniciative that looks
for modernization and transparency for the State in the benefit of the citizen.
Sincerely,
Juan Alberto González
General Manager
Microsoft Perú
The Gnrfan
Contrast this letter with the Oricle/Gray Davis scandal in CA. The Davis administration purchased $40mil worth of software for state employees who don't exist in exchange two weeks later for a $16,0000 donation to Davis' campaign. Hmmmm. No conflict of interest here! Move along!
And now that a state investigation is looking into the matter, Davis has re-staffed the committee with his political allies! Sweet! Does anybody remember Nixon's "Saturday Night Massacre?" Deja Vu?
Or there's Senior Juan Gonzalez, who besides making good coffee, actually looks out for the public good. Senior Gonzalez could have likely arranged a fat little campaign contribution from Micro$oft, but instead has told them in 10 pages that they are full of it.
I wish I could vote for this guy.
Not only does he understand the free software movement, he represents his people. When is the last time YOU felt like the people you voted for looked out for you?
My last thought on this is if Europe starts passing lots of stupid DMCA style laws, Peru would be a damn good home for the Free Software movement.
What we reallly need is a "show only funny articles" option, so we can browse fastly over the only things that matter ...
I really have no idea why this Senator wrote such a long letter to MS while it was clear that MS have no idea what Free software really means.
I used to work for a financial institution, where they regularly apply change - either to make an improvement, add a functionality or to fix a bug.
It is plain unacceptable if they are not allowed change their (transaction) software. Imagine if your bank have a security hole but it will not be fixed until the vendor decides to fix it when they're not busy?
Bug fixes in a financial institution should be measured in days at most, not weeks.
Why should other software in -say your bank or government be subjected to the same risk?
Pardon the typo. It should read $16,000.
Interesting how MS is all of a sudden concerned about non-competitive practices, isn't it?
C|N>K
Villanueva Nuñez writes about MS' EULA:"As you know perfectly well, or could find out by reading the "End User License Agreement" of the products you license, in the great majority of cases the guarantees are limited to replacement of the storage medium in case of defects, but in no case is compensation given for direct or indirect damages, loss of profits, etc... If as a result of a security bug in one of your products, not fixed in time by yourselves, an attacker managed to compromise crucial State systems, what guarantees, reparations and compensation would your company make in accordance with your licencing conditions? The guarantees of proprietary software, inasmuch as programs are delivered ``AS IS'', that is, in the state in which they are, with no additional responsibility of the provider in respect of function, in no way differ from those normal with free software.
"
Ahmen! It's called accountability. I don't have anything aginst MS' software, but I have a lot against their EULAs.
I want to have his manbabies.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
It would be great to change attitudes !!!
- We need to get doctors in congress like that one.
- Democracy is a form of do-it-yourself open source by the people.
- If history has shown anything, the OS wars are following similar lines as other tragic events in history:
Starting with Microsoft rejecting the feasability of open source:
1) Totalitarian govermnents that reject the existence of neighboring nations, usually in an attempt to acquire them.
2) Regimes that descriminate between their people, implying that some are citizens while others have no rights.
3) Large religions that have no tolerance over beliefs that appear to challenge their ways. These beliefs could be alternate religions, political opionions, or even scientific discoveries. The imposing religions make statements that the "non-believers" are damned. They associate elements of the others with their own fictional evil elements to the point that "acknowledging a hell implies acceptance of the oppressor's religion". They actively proselytize (convert), persecute, excommunicate, interrogate, censor, to further their own unknown agendas. This also includes denying the existence of the other beliefs.
Bad things happen when you trust the wrong people.
I thought the numbers where $75 million US (for the software) and $25,000US on the "campaign donation."
The whole campaign "contribution" system is basically a facade for corrupt. It's amazing how incredibly cheaply most federal represenatives can be bought. It's amazing how often a $20K contribution turns into a multimillion dollar tax break a few months later.
Corporations are big proponents of nationalizing costs and privatizing profits.
I tried it, it was easier to install and had much better driver support than Win2K -- of course, I was using the initial realease of Win2K from the MSDN disk set. Mandrake came complete with every driver I needed -- even for my old digital camera! Win2K did not have the driver for my Ethernet card, (3Com had recently discontinued it), and of course the digital camera required separately purchased software. Also, Win2K required seperately downloaded Voodoo3 drivers. And oh yeah, Linux required 1 boot floppy, Win2K required 4. Anybody who claims Windows is "easier" than Linux obviously hasn't tried installed both from scratch!
Could I license a program (complete with source code) to the peruvian government with the provision that the software/source could not be redistributed outside the public sector? What does the language in the Bill say?
As Villanueva Nuñez says: The Bill in no way restricts Microsoft from selling anything to anyone. It simply lays rules as to what is acceptable for the Peruvian state.
The irony is, I sent an e-mail to Mr. Greene at the Register on Sunday pointing him to Saturday's Slashdot post. The link above points to his story.
God is imaginary
http://www.spdfraktion.de/archiv/linux/linux.pdf
Parliaments Statement proposal signed by most members of the leading coalition (Social democrats/Green) of German Parliament:
I Quote the part about Open Source.
translated via google:
On the software market no competition takes place in far parts. Micro softly controls the market for text processing and spread-sheet analysis of programs with a portion of 90 per cent. Who menarbeiten digitally with other zusam wants, the newest version of the Mic is nearly forced in each case rosoft itself software too constituted and the hardware, which is efficient enough, in order to let the ever more complex becoming programs run. An out away from this competition-legally problematic situation could offer open SOURCE. Open SOURCE makes possible it to guarantee competition and able to communicateness under of schiedlicher software solutions. The source code - quasi the language in that the program is written - is freely accessible, therefore it can be configured each software in such a way that the able to communicateness is guaranteed. Open SOURCE often commodity becomes generally accepted more and more against proprietaere software. It opens the possibility of receiving more stable and the respective needs of the users better adapted products. In particular however increasing meaning is attached to these ranges heitsrelevanten in questions of IT security and interoperability particularly in safe. At the same time the use of open SOURCE products a continuous evaluation and improvement process must be subject. Open SOURCE is called literal: free source. Freely refers to 3 the basic free heiten, which defined the open SOURCE movement: 1. Liberty to understand the function of the program and to use it for own purposes, in addition the source code is revealed 2. Liberty to use the program all the same for which purpose 3. Liberty to make copies as well as change and pass the program on, in the commercial as also in the private use.
The German Bundestag welcomes the promotion of open SOURCE products and demands the introduction of products provided under open SOURCE license in the federal administration, particularly within sicherheitsrelevaten ranges. The German Bundestag welcomes that the Federal Ministries open the Einfueh rung from open SOURCE. Thus has for coordination and consulting place to the Federal Government for information technology in the federal administration (KBSt) recently together with the Linuxtag a Workshop accomplished. One determined: OSS is more economical, since it runs more stably and fewer maintenance costs caused. Updates must be used only if they are actually used. Open already now becomes SOURCE einge sets in the Federal Office of finances, in the procurement office of the Federal Ministry of the Interior, in the Federal Institution for agriculture and nutrition within certain ranges. Further pilot projects are prepared in individual papers. Open SOURCE should be inserted everywhere use the administration, where thereby Kos ten be saved can. Open SOURCE represents a special chance for the European software industry. For the first time there is a field here, in which the USA is not prominent. This chance must be used. The Federal Ministry for economics and technology already promoted 1999 the development of open SOURCE safety components
I think not.
It's not theft. It's use.
OSX is exactly the same thing as any non-coder who uses any OSS. It's NOT theft. It's NOT unethical. And, in fact, it's EXACTLY WHAT THE BSD FOLKS SEEM TO WANT!
OSS is (alledgely) about getting the best sofware, and being able to get support long after the creator dies. Not getting your agenda across. Not beating down the big guy. But getting THE BEST SOFTWARE POSSIBLE.
If Apple dies tomorrow (MS buys them and shuts them down 100%), everyone who has an Apple with OSX can continue to get support and updates from the OSS community--which is composed of people who, for the three goals of getting-something-that-works, ego-stroking, and philanthropy, donate their time to something that does not get them any direct fiscal payback.
It shows the ignorance of some Americans on /. in that they express cannot believe a Congressman wrote that letter. In most countries besides the US, where money and corporate backing are all one needs to get elected, public servants are much better educated and considerpublic service a public trust and an honor. Not so in AMerica where is all too often a way to enrich cronies. Bush is laughed at in Europe for his ignorance, laziness, and stupidity. I wish we in the US valued democracy and education as highly as sports so we could have Congressmen like him. What a government we would have then. Instead we are jaded and cynical: a product of our own misguided values (sports and tv over education and politics) and our own apathy.
;-)
By the way, teachers in most coutries out-earn sports stars as well
Your letter continues: "4. The bill imposes the use of open source software without considering the dangers that this can bring from the point of view of security, guarantee, and possible violation of the intellectual property rights of third parties."
Alluding in an abstract way to "the dangers this can bring", without specifically mentioning a single one of these supposed dangers, shows at the least some lack of knowledge of the topic. So, allow me to enlighten you on these points.
Support Open Source
But my main point is that the letter is just beautiful, even in translation; I really wish I read Spanish well enough to be able to read the original, because it must be wonderful. My favorite, by far:
Heehee.
Go for this URL:
http://www.pimientolinux.com/peru2ms/
The Gnrfan
Go check for the yummy stuff:
http://www.pimientolinux.com/peru2ms/
The Gnrfan
that is the most succinct piece of clear thought
on open source and government i've ever read.
way to go!
One of the most beautiful things I've ever read.
If that letter had been a fight, that poor Microsoft rep would have his pants around his ankles, his foot in his mouth, and his head up his ass.
I almost feel sorry for him.
On the other hand, it would contribute greatly to our analysis if you could inform us about free software projects *established* in public bodies which have already been abandoned in favour of proprietary software. We know of a good number of cases where the opposite has taken place, but not know of any where what you describe has taken place.
Hey, I'm just your average shit and piss factory.
The translation of the Dr. Villanueva-Nuñez is so elegant, and the machine translations of the original MicroSoft letter so fish-fuddled, I decided to make a clean copy of the original letter (mostly by cutting and pasting from the good Congressman's reply).
My hope is that this way the apparent brain-deadedness of the babelfished text can be flensed away, revealing the true brain-deadedness of the arguments themselves in all their glory. ;)
San Isidro, March 21st 2002
Mr:
Edgar Villanueva Nuñez
Congressman of the Republic of Peru
Present.-
Dear sir:
First of all, we want to thank you for the chance you gave us to inform you about our work in this country for benefit of the public sector, always looking for the best ways to implement programs that will let us consolidate the initiatives of modernization and transparency in the State.
In fact, thanks to our meeting today you are aware of our global achievements at the international level in the design of new services for the citizen, within the framework of a model State that respects and protects intellectual property.
The actions we talked about are part of a global initiative, and today there exist several experiences which have let us collaborate with programs supporting the State and community in the adoption of technology as a strategic element impacting the quality of life of the citizens.
Furthermore, as arranged in this meeting, we assisted the forum organized in the Congress on March 6th regarding the law project that you are leading, wherein we got the chance to listen to several presentations which lead us now to explain our position so you have a wider grasp of the real situation.
The bill makes it compulsory for all public bodies to use only free software, that is to say open source software, which breaches the principles of equality before the law, that of non-discrimination and the right of free private enterprise, freedom of industry and of contract, protected by the constitution.
The bill, by making the use of open source software compulsory, would establish discriminatory and non competitive practices in the contracting and purchasing by public bodies, violating the base principles of the "Law of State Contracting and Aquisitions" (Number 26850)
So, by compelling the State to favour a business model based entirely on open source, the bill would only discourage the local and international manufacturing companies, which are the ones which really undertake important expenditures, create a significant number of direct and indirect jobs, as well as contributing to the GNP, as opposed to a model of open source software which tends to have an ever weaker economic impact, since it mainly creates jobs in the service sector.
The bill imposes the use of open source software without considering the dangers that this can bring from the point of view of security, guarantee, and possible violation of the intellectual property rights of third parties.
The bill uses the concept of open source software incorrectly, since it does not necessarily imply that the software is free or of zero cost, and so arrives at mistaken conclusions regarding State savings, with no cost-benefit analysis to validate its position.
It is wrong to think that Open Source Software is free of charge. Research by the Gartner Group (an important investigator of the technological market recognized at world level) has shown that the cost of purchase of software (operating system and applications) is only 8% of the total cost which firms and institutions take on for a rational and truely beneficial use of the technology. The other 92% consists of: installation costs, enabling, support, maintenance, administration, and down-time.
One of the arguments behind the bill is the supposed freedom from costs of open-source software, compared with the costs of commercial software, without taking into account the fact that there exist types of volume licensing which can be highly advantageous for the State, as has happened in other countries.
In addition, the alternative adopted by the bill (i) is clearly more expensive, due to the high costs of software migration, and (ii) puts at risk compatibility and interoperability of the IT platforms within the State, and between the State and the private sector, given the hundreds of versions of open source software on the market.
The majority of open source code does not offer adequate levels of service nor the guarantee from recognized manufacturers of high productivity on the part of the users, which has led various public organizations to retract their decision to go with an open source software solution and to use commercial software in its place.
The bill demotivates the creativity of the peruvian software industry, which invoices 40 million US$/year, exports 4 million US$ (10th in ranking among non-traditional exports, more than handicrafts) and is a source of highly qualified employment. With a law that incentivates the use of open source, software programmers lose their intellectual property rights and their main source of payment.
Open source software, since it can be distributed without charge, does not allow the generation of income for its developers through exports. In this way, the multiplier effect of the sale of software to other countries is weakened, and so in turn is the growth of the industry, while Government rules ought on the contrary to stimulate local industry.
In the Forum, the use of open source software in education was discussed, without mentioning the complete collapse of this initiative in a country like Mexico, where precisely the State employees who founded the project now state that open source software did not make it possible to offer a learning experience to pupils in the schools, did not take into account the capability at a national level to give adequate support to the platform, and that the software did not and does not allow for the levels of platform integration that now exist in schools.
If open source software satisfies all the requirements of State bodies, why do you need a law to adopt it? Shouldn't it be the market which decides freely which products give most benefits or value?
I really want to thank you for your attention to this letter, and we want to reiterate our interest in meeting you to explain to you in more detail our point of view about the bill you have presented, and to be at your complete disposal to share experiences and information which we are sure can help better analyse and implement an initiative looking to modernization and transparency of the State for the benefit of the citizen.
Sincerely,
Juan Alberto González
General Manager
Microsoft Perú
You're right about technical awareness, but way out of line on corruption. A true cynic would say they're so clueless they don't even have the wit to enrich themselves, anyway most of our politicians are of relatively modest means and likely to stay that way. This gives some grounds for hope.
The real problem is that they haven't grasped the fundamentals of information ownership and management, relying instead on MS and its acolytes to tell them what policy should be because "government should learn from business". After all, they are successful and organizations like the CCTA (if they still exist) which are capable of giving an unbiased view have been marginalized.
Title says it all, really. I realize the /. crew would have to come up with a translator, but I'd bet that that wouldn't be a problem...
You might find interesting this:
http://www.grulic.org.ar/proposicion
It's a site mostly about the similar law in Argentina. But in the references section you can find lots of law proposals like this one all over the world (one of them, in a Brazilian state, has been approved as a law).
Most of the site is dual language spanish/english (some parts not translated), so you should see it in English with a proper browser setup.
The Peruvian Bill is almost identical (was taken from, without modifications) to the Argentinian law proposal. I did a translation of that, and posted it here in slashdot back in 2001. You can read a translation at:
http://www.grulic.org.ar/proposicion/proyecto/leye s/904-D-02/
http://www.grulic.org.ar/proposicion/proyecto/leye s/904-D-02/texto_orig
(Set your browser language to english or spanish to view it in your favorite language).
I'm part of a similar initiative in Argentina (I'm not Peruvian) which is closely related, so I can tell you the story from here.
The Argentinian Free Software Law proposal has been around for more than a year now. You can read about it at http://www.grulic.org.ar/proposicion. It was written by a congressman and improved by a bunch of geeks on a mailing list who offered him (idelogical) support.
At some time in the middle, the Peruvian LUG found about it, liked it, and tried to find a Congressman there to do something similar (in fact, both law proposals are identical). They found Congressman Villanueva Nuñez.
Our group has contact with the Peruvians, and some people from here have travelled there to offer ideas, and even helped with the writing of this letter (yes, it takes some mistycism about it away but is true: geeks participated in the writing of the letter).
Hope that feeds your curiosity. You have lots of info at the site i noted above, and at the Peruvian LUG (slashdotted right now).
A webpage on the peruvian government, with info about the congressmen.
l la nueva.htm
1 /evilla nueva.htm
http://www.congreso.gob.pe/congresista/2001/evi
One of the links aboove lists the laws proposed by him, (the third small square picture). Then go to the first link and you find:
SOFTWARE:USO LIBRE EN ADMINISTRACIÓN PÚBLICA
(SOFTWARE: FREE USE ON PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION).
Full text here:
http://www.congreso.gob.pe/congresista/200
Besides, I know personally a lot of the people involved. It's quite real, not a hoax
You may not sue the Federal government. It's in the consitution.
That great American pastime: "A problem has occurred, it could not be us, let's find someone to blame!" Never mind that we actually vote those money-grubbing thugs into the Congress and Whitehouse. Nevermind that we pay baseball player 100 times what a teacher makes. Nevermind that we have the highest obesity rates of any industrialized country because we sit on our duffs watchign the tube and whining about how awful things are in stead of doing something about it. Less than half of us even bother to vote! Stop whining and take back your democracy--it was yours to lose and it is soley yours to take back.
To further distance ourselves from any discussion of public policy in Peru, here is one more piece of information regarding sovereign immunity. The concept is not explicitly written into the constitution, it is an interpretation of the statement that the constitution is the supreme law of the land. I hope this clarifies the issue for you. I was a little disturbed when I first heard of this, too.
No, the Open Source movement is about convincing businesses to leverage the peer review process to have better software. The Free Software movement is about allowing every computer user to share and modify software. Please learn the difference between the two movements.
Microsoft has no problems with the Open Source movement, they very much like it when that movement strongly encourages developers to use the non-copylefted Free Software licenses (namely the X11 and new BSD licenses). Microsoft hates the GNU GPL (a copyleft Free Software license) because the GNU GPL preserves software freedoms for everyone. That is why Microsoft targets the GNU GPL by name.
Digital Citizen
No on the second count. The Open Source movement centers on telling businesses about a development methodology that produces good software (so you miss points there in that the audience this movement talks to is primarily businesses). But the second argument about support is completely untrue (that movement doesn't speak to support if a proprietor goes away or is uncooperative) and impossible when you consider that the Open Source movement backs Free Software licenses that sometimes become proprietary software (even to the extent of embrace and extend)—commonly known as non-copyleft Free Software licenses (like the X11 and new BSD licenses). This is why Microsoft likes the Open Source movement so much and they continue to target the GNU GPL (a copylefted Free Software license).
But in the case of Apple, the APSL is a non-free license, so there is much to lose even if one has the source code and the ability to work on it.
No, at most they can only work on some parts of the system, and only then if they're willing to do so under a non-free software license. With MacOS X, you have the choice between not being able to work on some parts of the system at all (the proprietary parts such as QuickTime and Quartz) and deciding whether to work under a non-free software license for those parts you have source code to (mostly the parts Apple copied from Free Software). Either way, it's a significantly worse situation than working on a Free Software operating system (GNU/Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and many others).
Digital Citizen
If you ever wonder if using Microsoft's product will actually "save you money", vs using Linux, wonder no more.
Please read the NEW "case study" published by Microsoft.
It's at
www.microsoft.com/business/casestudies/b2c/micr
Among interesting "facts" in the "case study", here is a little snapshot
"We wanted to offer additional Web-based applications for accessing detailed financial
data and communicating with our stores, but the lack of security and functionality in the
Linux platform meant we would have to develop everything from scratch."
"In March 2000, Hard Rock Cafe standardized on the Microsoft platform to lower its total cost of
ownership."
"Since we migrated to Windows 2000, we've been able to rapidly deliver the tools and applications
needed to reduce costs and streamline the way we do business."
"We've only had two developers working on our intranet--the same number we had working on the
Linux platform--and the Microsoft platform has enabled them to deliver upward of 50 applications
over the last year. We're definitely getting more results for our development dollars now."
"In the past, new menus required sending a large amount of materials to all our stores--
recipes, food display guidelines, and so on. Now that we can do this via our intranet, we're
saving upward of $20,000 per year for just this one task."
Since you have reached here, let me tell you that the "case study" by Microsoft is not something coming out of thin air. In fact, Microsoft has named names - in this case, Hard Rock Cafe (HRC).
The funny thing about the "case study" is the claim that using Windows 2000 HRC actually "saved" money !
And then the HRC's IT described Linux as suffering from "the lack of security and functionality" is indeed intriguing.
Digging some more on the thing and we find that the HRC IT department, under their Linux deployment, opted to have their ENTIRE network to run under ONE PASSWORD.
Yes, I kid you not. Read the article !
This only shows the "capabilities" and the "wisdom" of those working in HRC's IT department.
I too, am in the IT field, and I for one, am horrible at what those two HRC guys are doing. If I were their boss, they would have shown the door long, long time ago.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
You didn't say much about copyleft--at least, nothing in opposition to what I said.
But you used the term "Free Software" a lot. Without defining it. By God, define it if you must use such an ambiguous and contrary term!
(Do you mean free-as-in-beer, free-as-in-speech, or free-as-in-naked?)
I don't think that even MS will be able to pressure Peru into buying anything. There are also other factors including publicity. If MS pushes too hard this will start to make international news ("Big American corporation forcing poor South American country to accept it's terms"). MS is hardly popular internationally and this would cause a backlash against it(Remember that there is still a case going on against MS in the EU). MS sometimes shows remarkable stuidity in it's dealings with the press and this would be no exception.
Very nicely done reply. I admit my error on copyleft, and only two points come to mind.
1: Copyleft should still compete with non-copyleft software and licenses--including proprietary software. A bussness, ideally, should choose somewhere between pure copyleft (where everything down to the company's trademark are free for the taking) and pure copyright (where they don't even use interfaces that they don't totally own.)
I find no moral problem with Apple creating an excellent GUI and configuring it to run atop a "non-copyleft" (BSD) licensed software. Especially when the major relevant copyleft licenses (GPL) would require them to reinvent their business plan into something far less profitable.
The key to this lack of moral objection is the value of sticking as close to the original "copymiddle'd" code as possible. Doing so allows them to tap into the network of programmers and hobbyists that write BSD, thus allowing them to focus on the things that are valueable.
While I support the FSF in theory (the best thing I can do with my money is put my own house in order right now), I disagree with a pure-freedom enviornment. Absolute freedom runs rampant over unpopular rights (How many people pay for Winzip? Since they have the "Freedom" of using it at the cost of either their conciense or their checkbook, many people simply do not pay for it.) Competition demands the ability to compete and be reimbursed when your efforts are valued and used by others.
Besides which, the FSF seems to work on moral authoirty--and moral authority has more credence when the line is "you should give these rights to everyone else" rather than "you must give these rights to everyone else."
2: As I've mentioned before, the best copyleft license is a limited-area copyleft. The Open Gaming License is such a license. It's the best I've seen where a Work can have both Copyleft (game rules and other hard numbers) and non-Copyleft (ficiton, characters, and trademarks) content.
If the GPL were modified to allow for all-new, non-derived components (like a GUI) to be added to GPL'd copylefted software components which could never be closed again, it would be a better license and many of the objections to the GPL would vanish, while still allowing it to retain all of its assets and moral authority.
Are you familiar with the history of the oil, banana, and garment industries in Latin America? It is thick with big American corporations forcing poor countries to accept their terms, backed up by the US State Dept and sometimes the DoD. United Fruit (Chiquita) is the prototypical example of this, at one point it completely controlled Guatemala backed by US Marines. Even mainstream texts acknowledge this. Lets see there's also Argentina, Nicuragua, Cuba, El Salvador, Panama ...
The oil companies tend to be the most vicious historically, and I would be surprised if Microsoft was as bad as them anytime soon, look at how Colombia is now.
But those cerebral, "IP intense" industries surprise you with how vicious they can be. Look at the pharmaceutical industy, they got the US to file a WTO case against Brazil. This is after they refused to sell AIDS drugs in Brazil, so Brazil made their own and gave them away free to everyone who needed them resulting in them cutting their mortality rate due to AIDS in half. This is what the US pharma industry wanted to stop and they were successful in getting the US government to go to bat for them. But, your point is also bourne out, part of the reason the US backed off is that the issue did get into the press.
I think the point(s) he was trying to make applied to Open Source software in general. Plus he mentioned Linus Torvalds so I guess you can sound the horn now.
No, I'm quite familiar with how I would describe things, and the Congressman's letter describes software I too would describe as Free Software. In fact the only time the congressman uses the term "Open source" is when he is quoting the Microsoft representative. You only need to read as far as the third paragraph to see Congressman Villanueva take the effort to change the terminology the Microsoft representative used to match that of his own speech and that of the bill. Villanueva's use of the term "Free Software" in his letter suggests familiarity with and intent to use that term because his letter does not shy away from using freedom to describe what he's after. This is quite unlike the Open Source movement which makes it a point to never discuss software freedom because they believe it interferes with getting their message across to businesses.
Reading more of his words on the subject, I came across this translated article in which he is quoted as using the term "free software" and spelling out some of the same arguments the Free Software movement has advocated for many years; all arguments concerned with preserving the freedom of software. This is not at all synonymous with the Open Source movement which advocates Free Software licenses that allow proprietary derivatives (non-copylefted Free Software licenses). Considering the aforementioned correction of the Microsoft representative in his letter and that his rationale jibes so strongly with the Free Software movement, I think any reasonable person would infer that when Congressman Villanueva says "Free Software" he means exactly that.
I'd say he's quite interested since only copylefted Free Software licenses (such as the GNU GPL) can provide the software competition he talks about stimulating (see Villanueva's response to point #2 of the Microsoft letter). Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of competitive non-copylefted Free Software out there. That's not the problem. The problem is what happens when someone with Microsoft's publicity power has embraced and extended some non-copylefted Free Software and produced an incompatible proprietary derivative. At that time Villanueva (and every other software user interested in software freedom) can't get what they're looking for. So I'd say he's quite interested and (given the letter we're talking about) quite well educated on the issues.
Digital Citizen
But can we sue the individual States at least?