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Apple (R)ejects Copy Protection

Posted by pudge on from the heh-heh-heh dept.

Frogbeater writes "Apple keeps on keeping on with the anti-copy protection crowd by using their technical info database as a platform for denouncing the artists who are getting on the bandwagon." I like this line from the technote: You may be unable to eject certain copy-protected audio discs, which resemble Compact Discs (CD) but technically are not. Indeed.

89 comments

  1. TiBook CD/DVD eject issue by ubiquitin · · Score: 4, Informative

    So that's why those CD's weren't ejecting! ;) For the uninitiated, shift-Command-1 on Macs does a force media eject.

    --
    http://tinyurl.com/4ny52
    1. Re:TiBook CD/DVD eject issue by dtfarmer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So that's why those CD's weren't ejecting!

      I think the important point is that these are not CD's....

    2. Re:TiBook CD/DVD eject issue by andrewski · · Score: 1

      Wow! I have a TiBook and think that the arcane key combinations are way more screwy than typing eject on the command line. I am used to Linux and FreeBSD mostly, so the command line is where it's at. Apple seems to agree with me on this one, too.

    3. Re:TiBook CD/DVD eject issue by SPYvSPY · · Score: 2

      It's old Apple shortcuts from the 1984 days. There are hundreds of them, it seems. You don't need them, and you prolly won't notice them if you don't want to. But they're handy for "power users" (I know, I know).

  2. Go Apple! by mkoz · · Score: 2, Informative

    It is important to make these stands.

    >The audio discs are technically and legally not Compact Discs (CD format)

    I am not sure how much this will really matter in the end, but apple's stance on Rip. Mix. Burn. Has been impressive and I wish them the best. Since I do firmly believe that fair use does mean I can play it on my computer and put it on an mp3 player.

    1. Re:Go Apple! by davecl · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This isn't all a good thing. If you read to the end of the apple support page, you find the sting in the tail. Since these are not legally CDs, trying to play one in your Mac constitutes improper use. This menas you get to void your warranty and have to pay any repair charges.

      Now this is partly apple covering their backside, which is not unreasonable, but it could all get very interesting if someone with a significant repair bill and a lot of annoyance starts firing lawyers from the hip to get someone else to pay. Who will they go for - the record company, the people who devised this particular anti-computer scheme, the artists...

      And more importantly, would they have a case???

    2. Re:Go Apple! by mkoz · · Score: 1

      The legal system perplexes me, and I think that there is some CYA happening here.

      At the same time I think apple deserves credit for taking the recording industry head on. I think the Rip. Mix. Burn. ads of a couple years ago drew a line in then sand with the recording industry. Apple has a vested interest in keeping create types happy and supporting copyrights, but it also has a vested interest in ipods/itunes, etc. I think apple has taken a very sane position in saying that you can "Rip. Mix. Burn." and as part of that pointing out that various artists have chosen to not use the CD format. Some people are unaware that this is even happening.

    3. Re:Go Apple! by eXtro · · Score: 1

      Well, the recording industry is falsely advertising that these CDs are Compact Discs (TM) when they're not. A lawyer is going to go after everybody they can, in this case most likely Apple, the record company and the manufacturer. They'd have a case against at least the record company if somebody gets smart and brings an executive from Philips on the stand: "Is this shiny thing a Compact disc?" "No, it doesn't conform to the specifications required in order to claim its a Compact Disc"

      --

      Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware

    4. Re:Go Apple! by Polo · · Score: 2

      I think they have to do that. Otherwise, they might have to pay for the Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwich that was mistaken for a compact disk as well.

    5. Re:Go Apple! by MrAndrews · · Score: 1

      Apple is covering themselves, but taking great pains earlier in the note to point people towards a class-action lawsuit of some sort against Sony Music. They're making it clear that
      a) we won't pay, so it's either you or...
      b) music companies are doing this to a lot of people, so...
      c) did we mention that those shiny things aren't LEGALLY proper CDs?

      People could try and press a case against Apple or the music industry, but this article is only missing an attachment: "Quick Form for Filing Suit Against Sony Music".

      Wonderfully funny stuff, seeing big companies bash each other around.

      --
      The world's only surviving livewriter.
    6. Re:Go Apple! by leviramsey · · Score: 1

      About 10 years ago, my younger sister ruined a VCR when she put a pb&j sandwich in it.

    7. Re:Go Apple! by ptbrown · · Score: 1

      The answer to that has been given to us by Breke Breathed.

      Steve Dallas's Law Tips (November 29) "Who should I sue?"

      "On April 17th, the plaintiff, me, was brutally attacked by actor Sean Penn after I accidentally and not on purpose snapped a picture of him. The question: Who should I sue? ...

      "... Sean? No. Juries love famous people. Plus, he'd probably return to beat up the plaintiff again. Never sue psychopathic celebrities.

      "... Sean's wife? No. True, living with Madonna might make most anyone irritable, but proving liability would be difficult. Plus, she too might return to beat up the plaintiff.

      "... Opus? No. Although he got the plaintiff into this mess, he's also dead broke. Never, never, never sue poor people.

      "... The Nikolta Camera Co.? Yes! A major corporation with gobs of liquid cash, it was criminally negligent in not putting stickers on their cameras which read, 'Warning: Physical injury may result from photographing psychopathic Hollywood hotheads.'

      "... I plan to ask for $10 million."

      -----
      And, of course, he's right. The artists don't have any money. Apple's got money but they didn't create the problem; they're really just as much a "victim", and yes this is a CYA technote. But Sony's got money too, more than Apple even. And they're the ones that have created the "defective" discs. But the discs do say, "Will not play on PC", so Sony can deflect the blame anyway. Now if you were to discover a defective disc without any appropriate labelling, you'd have a case.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced civilization is indistinguishable from Gods.
    8. Re:Go Apple! by jcr · · Score: 2

      Sure, they'd have a case. The record company is offering a product with an implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose (i.e, it *looks* like a CD, so it should play just like my other CD's, right?)

      An itty-bitty notice on the back of the disk that says it doesn't play in computers just isn't sufficient warning that the disk is in fact "vandalware" that could damage my equipment.

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    9. Re:Go Apple! by GutBomb · · Score: 2

      They do not claim to be a compact disc either. Look closely at the disc, do you see the "Compact Disc" logo on it? It is compatible with some compact disc plyers but does not claim to be a compact disc in any way.

    10. Re:Go Apple! by Steve+B · · Score: 2
      But the discs do say, "Will not play on PC", so Sony can deflect the blame anyway.

      I doubt that would be sufficient to get them off the hook, as the damage goes far beyond what is implied by the warning. At a minimum, they'd need a prominent warning that the "CD" can cause your computer to lock up and require professional servicing.

      To get an idea of where the baseline lies, read some of the warnings on products that everybody with three firing neurons knows are dangerous if misused..

      --
      /. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
  3. Danger Will Robinson... by h0tblack · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...using come copy-protected cd's in the new flat-panel iMacs can be a VERY expensive mistake. Certain cd's cause the cd drive to jam and then the machine refuses to reboot. This means you have to take it to an Apple Dealer (or do it yourself it you know what your doing) to take the thing apart and manually wind the eject cogs. Seems there's no option for the good old fashioned paper-clip trick with these drives.
    More details here:
    http://uk.eurorights.org/issues/cd/docs/cel dion.sh tml

    1. Re:Danger Will Robinson... by tarkap · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can still do the paperclip trick on a SuperDrive iMac though. Stick it in the right slot under the cd tray.

      I just looked at the cdrw model, and yup.. no hole likes the paper clip trick :(

      thanks apple.

    2. Re:Danger Will Robinson... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can eject any media in a Macintosh by pressing the mouse button while it's powering on/rebooting.

    3. Re:Danger Will Robinson... by gerardrj · · Score: 2, Informative

      I do believe the old "mouse button down on boot" trick still works to eject all removable media at boot.
      This is a firmware thing, so it should work before the OS even attempts to search for a boot drive.

      No?

      --
      Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
  4. so how? by Polo · · Score: 2

    how does this lock up the system?

    is it intentional?

    1. Re:so how? by keesh · · Score: 2

      Essentially, certain markers which should be present aren't. This can cause the machine to get confused, and nasty thinks can happen -- the laser might move futher than it should, for example, and this can cause all sorts of confusion for the OS.

      If you want details, Google is your friend.

  5. Certain discs, huh? by the+phantom · · Score: 3, Funny

    Shakira?
    Jennifer Lopez?
    Celine Dion?

    Wow, I thought it would eject these at the mere thought of having to play them. I almost feel sorry for the poor iMacs that are forced to eat these.

    --
    Rhapsody in Numbers
    1. Re:Certain discs, huh? by Peter+Trepan · · Score: 1

      Maybe Apple programmed this behavior into the iMac as a sort of compassionate intervention for people with really bad pop-culture tastes.

      No, no... I'm just going to keep this until you've had some time to think.

      --

      Step into a huge movement. Don't Tread In Me.

    2. Re:Certain discs, huh? by i_am_pi · · Score: 1

      I so agree. My first reaction to reading that section was "Oh, good. This will never affect me because I listen to _REAL_ music." Like The laziest Men On Mars- The Terrible secret of Space Or Invasion of the Gabber Robots...

      Pi

    3. Re:Certain discs, huh? by pr0ph3+ · · Score: 1
      "It might not be possible to eject the disc on computers without a manual eject hole."

      Don't worry, some of the Performas out there in the world are doing their part to stop the maddening evilness of bad music through indigestion. Having no manual eject, and being that holding the mouse button during boot, only spits out held floppies, this means they are true martyrs; laying their life down; dying for the cause; taking one...
      ...for the team.

  6. Getting the CD Out by The+Donald · · Score: 3, Informative
    I'm worried for all the people out there who are not all that techo savy. If the CD will not eject, then they'll either have to take it out themselves, or bring it to an Apple Repair Shop. Quoting Apple's support page on this:
    If a disc with copyrighted protection technology remains inside the drive after following the procedures above, or if the computer does not start up normally, it is recommended that you contact an Apple Authorized Service Provider (AASP) or Apple Technical Support. CD audio discs that incorporate copyright protection technologies do not adhere to published Compact Disc standards. Apple designs its CD drives to support media that conforms to such standards. Apple computers are not designed to support copyright protected media that do not conform to such standards. Therefore, any attempt to use non standard discs with Apple CD drives will be considered a misapplication of the product. Under the terms of Apple's One-Year Limited Warranty, AppleCare Protection Plan, or other AppleCare agreement any misapplication of the product is excluded from Apple's repair coverage. Because the Apple product is functioning correctly according to its design specifications, any fee assessed by an Apple Authorized Service Provider or Apple for repair service will not be Apple's responsibility.
    Now, for a new user. If you go to Best Buy and puck up a copy of Celine Dion: "A New Day Has Come" (Don't know why, but that's a different story), it will look like a CD, smell like a CD, so to the average user, it's a CD. Just becuase the Disc doesn't have the Compact Disc Logo on it wont mean people will undersand that it's really not a CD.

    I think a lot of new users will think Apple is at fault for adhearing to the standards; and expect the problem to be fixed at no cost to them.

    --
    You know who I think is crazy? All my ex-girlfriends!
    1. Re:Getting the CD Out by oyenstikker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "users will think Apple is at fault for adhearing to the standards"

      Sad but true. Same people who think Mozilla is at fault for adhereing to the standards and breaking sites written for IE. Same people who think Firestone is at fault for sticking to their tire design and breaking when used with a very badly designed product (You didn't hear about those tires blowing on any of the millions of non-Fords they were on). People accuse the most obvious thing. My browser isn't working, must be the browser. The tire blew up, must be the tire. The CD drive got stuck, must be the CD drive.

      --
      The masses are the crack whores of religion.
    2. Re:Getting the CD Out by ichimunki · · Score: 1

      How are they adhering to standards by providing a device which does not fail gracefully? I don't mind if the drive can't play these CDs, but if the device is going to suffer serious damage as a result of putting something in which has the exact same form factor as a proper CD and can only be differentiated by putting it in the device, then Apple has some bad engineering on its hands. Apple blaming this on the pseudo-CD makers is just passing the buck, sorry.

      --
      I do not have a signature
    3. Re:Getting the CD Out by h0tblack · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yep, it's a real shame that again lack of knowledge/information is likely to cause confusion. For those in the know, cd's have long been a bizzare and often black art (especially in the early days of burning). Now companies such as Epic and Columbia (read: Sony) are selling things that in the eyes of 99% of the population are Audio-CD's. People don't don't tend to care what format a cd is in, but if it works in their cd-player, then they expect it to work in their computer's cd player. Selling non red-book format cd's in this way, causing the potential to damage hardware is a extreme case of taking advantage of the general public IMHO. Interestingly enough, it's not just computers that have problems, many other cd-playing devices have problems, altho non as drastic as the iMac it appears. (Altho you can nicely crash an x-box using a celine dione cd I believe).
      Now, I wonder how Sony made devices handle these non-cd's ;)

    4. Re:Getting the CD Out by Surlyboi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How are they adhering to standards by providing a device which does not fail gracefully? I don't mind if the drive can't play these CDs, but if the device is going to suffer serious damage as a result of putting something in which has the exact same form factor as a proper CD and can only be differentiated by putting it in the device, then Apple has some bad engineering on its hands. Apple blaming this on the pseudo-CD makers is just passing the buck, sorry.

      Not really, Apple's not the only one that has
      problems like this, Sony's electronics arm
      has complained of this as well. (Which I find
      funny, considering Celine Dion is published by
      Sony's music arm, left hand not knowing what the
      right's doing much?)

      These discs are crashing machines regardless
      of maker. At least Apple's being up front about it.

      --
      Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine...
    5. Re:Getting the CD Out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      u didn't hear about those tires blowing on any of the millions of non-Fords they were on

      ah! someone out there DOES know about that. Even still Firestone has had lousy business on all their tires since the recall.

      People say that Firestone had problems in their plant, but i think that's a scape goat when you look at all the other cars that used those recalled tires without failures.

    6. Re:Getting the CD Out by ecki · · Score: 1

      While I agree with you in genereal, you don't have to be that techo savy to hold down the mouse button upon startup. This has at least always worked for me in the past (but I haven't tried the CDs they mention yet and probably never will :).

    7. Re:Getting the CD Out by ichimunki · · Score: 1

      In the com.com story you linked, there is no mention of Sony complaining about this copy protection scheme. Unless you are asserting that Philips is now a Sony company.

      As to the BBC link, the computers that could crash and have trouble ejecting may well be these iMacs. They are not specific in the article.

      I hold to my assertion that if the only way to get the drive to eject a faulty CD is to take it into a repair shop that the design is flawed. Now if these CDs were the wrong size, or had a non-standard surface instead of the aluminum or whatever it is, then I can almost see it. As it is, from my understanding of the write-up here, the Apple drive fails solely due to non-compliant data on an otherwise standard disc.

      For my part, I'll just assume that my current CD collection is fine, and I'll scrupulously avoid any labels belonging to the RIAA or who have been found using this copy protection scheme. But I have to wonder if the eject problem can happen to commercially available discs, what's to prevent similar problems with home-burned discs and the like?

      --
      I do not have a signature
    8. Re:Getting the CD Out by Surlyboi · · Score: 1

      Bah, I quoted the wrong article, here's the one that
      quotes A Sony spokesman

      And again, I stand by my assertion that the discs
      themselves are the problem, regardless of who the
      computer maker is. Why release a product to market
      if there's a chance it's going to break equipment,
      or not even work at all? Hell, the poor woman
      mentioned in the above article can only play her
      CD in her car!

      --
      Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine...
    9. Re:Getting the CD Out by pudge · · Score: 2

      If some black-hat hackers were stealthily distributing CDs designed to exploit the CD standards to make mechanisms fail, you'd probably say these guys were crooks. But if Sony does the exact same thing, it's the PC manufacturer's fault? Besides, Apple didn't design a one of their CD mechanisms, they are all third-party, and PC drives can be damaged too.

    10. Re:Getting the CD Out by dadragon · · Score: 1

      Now, I wonder how Sony made devices handle these non-cd's ;)

      My sister tried to play a J. Lo CD in my Sony CDU948S(4x8 burner). I had to paper-clip it. I was mad.

      That is all. There is now an official boycott of all things Silver CD with no CDDA(TM) on it..

      --
      God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
    11. Re:Getting the CD Out by h0tblack · · Score: 2, Funny

      heh :)
      question is, can we use the Aibo SDK to get it to recognise a copy protected cd, bark and urinate on it?

    12. Re:Getting the CD Out by TheAJofOZ · · Score: 3, Insightful
      If some black-hat hackers were stealthily distributing CDs designed to exploit the CD standards to make mechanisms fail, you'd probably say these guys were crooks. But if Sony does the exact same thing, it's the PC manufacturer's fault? Besides, Apple didn't design a one of their CD mechanisms, they are all third-party, and PC drives can be damaged too.

      And guess who makes a lot of those CD drives? That's right, it's Sony.... Not sure what's in the new systems, but my B&W G3 came with a Sony CD Rom, my TiBook has a Matshita drive though.

    13. Re:Getting the CD Out by TotallyUseless · · Score: 1

      +1 funny

      definitely

      --

      Time for some tasty Shiner Bock!
    14. Re:Getting the CD Out by Triv · · Score: 2

      my TiBook has a Matshita drive though. Inidentally, Matshita's a wholly owned subsidiary of Panasonic. They made most Macintosh drives - My Slot-loading iMac's got a matdrive. :)

      Triv

    15. Re:Getting the CD Out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are you so stupid? Oh look at me. I will purposely engineer a disc that looks like a cd but isn't legally one and will destroy this machine. It won't be my fault it will by the machine manufacturers fault because stupid people like you are to stupid to understand. Oh by the way I think your a tad on the stupid side.

    16. Re:Getting the CD Out by KH · · Score: 1

      Matshita's a wholly owned subsidiary of Panasonic.


      Minor correction: It's the other way around. Matsushita (spelled in full) is the groups who uses the brand Panasonic in certain cases.

      It used to be that Quantum (the HDD manufacturer) belonged to the group. I don't know what happened to Quantum since.
    17. Re:Getting the CD Out by ichimunki · · Score: 1

      Your point about Apple not making the drives is the best thing I've read in this thread so far-- I wasn't trying to be critical of Apple per se, just going after the person putting out the hardware. Because frankly, if a black hat can make a CD that destroys my drive, yes, that is the fault of the maker of the drive. What's insane is that it's likely Sony making both the drive and the destructive CD.

      Imagine if there were a signal you could put on a video tape that would prevent your VCR from ejecting the tape... that's how I see this. There should always be a button that I can press that says, "whatever the drive is doing, stop it, move all the mechanicals to where they need to be, and open the drive".

      --
      I do not have a signature
    18. Re:Getting the CD Out by pudge · · Score: 1

      I am not arguing that it is not Bad for drives to be damaged by such things. Yes, ideally, you are right, the drives should gracefully fail by ejecting the problem discs, or something. I am saying, however, that when someone exploits that "bug" or "misfeature" or whatever you wish to call it -- even if is not an intent, but merely a known consequence, to damage the mechanism -- then the parties doing the damaging are to "blame." It's not like they are doing something that is supposed to be done. They are going outside the agreed-upon specs, with the full knowledge that it will cause damage to some mechanisms. Whether or not the damage could have been prevented by better engineering beforehand is irrelevant to the culpability of those employing the copy protection scheme. And I am not sure if a disclaimer about it not working on PCs is sufficient to absolve them.

    19. Re:Getting the CD Out by XnetZERO · · Score: 1

      I think the issue is that the drives aren't recognizing the CDs, but there's enough in the format to confuse the heck out of them... I would imagine that either an update to the OS or drive firmware will soon follow to fix the issue.

    20. Re:Getting the CD Out by Refrag · · Score: 2

      Yeah, I never understood that. Ford develops a vehicle (Explorer) with poor stability. To resist against rollovers, Ford recommends their customers under-inflate their tires rather than fix the design. Tires weaken (obviously) and vechicles wreck. For some reason the mass public and press believe Ford that the problem is with the tires and not the shoddy vehicle.

      --
      I have a website. It's about Macs.
    21. Re:Getting the CD Out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi, I've got 3 comments.

      1. These CD's came out AFTER the Mac drives, didn't they? It's a lot harder to defeat something that hasn't come out yet. In all other cases, these drives work fine.

      2. This is a HACK. Sony is *purposefully* designing these CD's to break the systems they're played on. If it was an oversight, there wouldn't be this much problem, since accidents aren't designed to inflict maximum damage. This is an ATTACK, and like all software and hardware, NOTHING IS 100% HACK PROOF. These CDs (or whatever they are) are DESIGNED to override the standard procedure of CD drives. They've found a weakness in the drives' standard way of doing things and are exploiting it.

      3. Not CDs? Then what are they? There are 3 possibilities:

      a. These are not CDs. In this case, they shouldn't play in CD players, right? Then what are they designed to play in? Either they are or they aren't. If Sony were "responsible corporate citizens" (reminds me of 'military intelligence'), they would have determined beforehand that these CDs damage computer hardware and, in good faith, made them 100% INCOMPATIBLE with CD drives to protect their customers - or fixed the defect. Then they could introduce their own player and they could force users to switch over to that, abandoning CDs totally in favor of these new Sony CrippleDisks. If Sony wanted to create an entirely new format, they'd have to create new hardware. Making them physically exactly the same as CDs, and playable in many players, does not indicate a new format. Legally, these things look like CDs, perform the same function as CDs, and are played in CD players. Realistically, THEY ARE CDs!!

      b. These are broken CDs. In this case, they are CDs that are defective, since they won't play on all CD players. These are broken, non-standard implementations of CDs. Yup. Sounds about right. This makes Sony at fault, and real assholes.

      c. The players are broken. If the CD players themselves are defective, the manufacturers should probably correct their hardware to include playing the new format. But fixing the defect to allow full functionality is probably illegal, thanks to the lousy POS we lovingly call the DMCA. Nice to be ruled by tyrants.

      BSOD

    22. Re:Getting the CD Out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      only in her car? that's amazing. in my experience, car decks are the worst for compatibility (for example, some chrysler decks won't play burned discs).

    23. Re:Getting the CD Out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      quantum is still around, but they're only doing large-scale storage and network stuff now. their consumer hard drive racket belongs to maxstor now (who still have dandy support pages for older quantum drives).

  7. Ironic by dumbArtMajor · · Score: 5, Funny

    The following discs are known to use the copy protection:
    Shakira: "Laundry Service"
    Jennifer Lopez: "J To Tha L-O!"
    Celine Dion: "A New Day Has Come"

    "These people resemble musicians but technically are not."

    1. Re:Ironic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      amen.

    2. Re:Ironic by dadragon · · Score: 1

      "These people resemble musicians but technically are not."

      They always struck me as the people who played "connect the dots" and coloured in colouring books.

      --
      God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
    3. Re:Ironic by dalassa · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I had a moment of horror when I realized I owned one of those CDs, execpt it played fine in my G4's super drive and I already ripped it. So its not exactly very well protected is it?

      I think this teaches me to look far more carefully at the labels. I do not want to toast my drive.

      --
      Feminism is the radical notion that women are people.
  8. congrats to apple by esoteric0 · · Score: 1

    i personally am very, very pleased that apple is making a stand like this and not caving in to the record companies like everyone else. apple has pretty much always done things its own way, and this is just another example of that.

    of course, i'm sure if they did start supporting copy protection thier ipod sales would drop like a rock.

  9. For now anyway - the users deserve it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looking at the compiled list of "protected" CDs that create problems with Macs/PCs there is one reason to breathe a sigh of relief. All are Mass Market crap from "musicians" like Destiny's Child, Jennifer Lopez and Celine Dion. In my opinion people who promote that kind of crap deserve to have their eggs scrambled...

    1. Re:For now anyway - the users deserve it... by trash+eighty · · Score: 1

      yes but unfortunately if unchallenged the record companies will put the "protection" on more and more CDs until even yer wicked cool indie group who sell to 3 men and a dog will have this insidious protection too.

  10. i bet by paradesign · · Score: 1
    id bet that somewhere behind this is MTV. Look at the artist list, who else supports these freaks. I will laugh when all of the 12 yr old girls complain to their rich daddys who got them new iMacs that their "broked"

    LOL in advance

    --
    I want 2D games back.
  11. Welcome to hell. by phagstrom · · Score: 3, Funny

    This must be what hell is like....

    Having a Jennifer Lopez CD in the drive and NOT being able to get it out.

    I would have to opt for a small tactical nuclear weapon. The CD is getting out of the drive - one way or the other.

    1. Re:Welcome to hell. by belroth · · Score: 2, Funny
      This must be what hell is like....

      Having a Jennifer Lopez CD in the drive and NOT being able to get it out.

      Could be worse, you could be able to play it too...

      --
      I hereby inform you that I have NOT been required to provide any decryption keys.
    2. Re:Welcome to hell. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      small tactical nuclear weapon, huh?

      i take it you're not too handy with a screwdriver, or a dremel perhaps.

  12. Who would want to? by ulbador · · Score: 1

    Who cares if these CD's are copyprotected(other than the fact it's a very slippery slope)... Does it make them more desirable to the consumer with the whole "You told me I can't do it so I'm going to" attitude... I can't think of anyone that would actually want to steal that music, other than to mock and laugh at it

  13. Apple sould seek compensation by WalletBoy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Apple should at least try to seek some compensation from the RIAA for all the wasted man-hours spent taking support calls for people using these non-standard CDs.

  14. Request for clarification by GORDOOM · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In this article, and in the ensuing discussion, the assertion has been made and supported that these particular optical discs are not technically CDs. My understanding, however, was that these discs were CDs, but did not comply with the Red Book standard (and thus could not be called CD:DA discs).

    A minor distinction, I know... either way, these things are not true audio CDs, and should not be advertised as being such. But could someone please clear this up for me?

    1. Re:Request for clarification by jakobk · · Score: 1

      Isn't a CD defined by the Red Book?

    2. Re:Request for clarification by GORDOOM · · Score: 2, Informative

      My understanding is that the Red Book standard defines the Compact Disc: Digital Audio format specifically. In other words, Red Book specifically defines, not the Compact Disc, but the format used to store audio data on a compact disc, thus making it an "Audio CD." It is this standard to which the "copy-protected CDs" do not comply. For this reason, they can be properly called CDs, but not "Compact Disc: Digital Audio," and so cannot bear Philips's logo.

      Again, if I'm wrong, please correct me.

    3. Re:Request for clarification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CD:DA is one of the formats that live under the Compact Disc umbrella. The copy protected audio discs are round, flat, and densely populated with digital data, and could conceivably be thought of as compact disks, but can not be referred to as Compact Discs, which is a proper noun with specific definition.

      so, compact and disc are true, but it is not defined within the closed set of Compact Disc standards.

    4. Re:Request for clarification by foniksonik · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is related to the IP involved and the fact that the two owners of the Trademark Compact Disk are Phillips and (some company i can't recall at the moment, maybe Sony).

      If the owners of the TM don't want to license it to the Copyright Protected Disk manufacturers then their products can't be called CDs.

      That's what I know about it.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
  15. Sue CD Producers who have this crap by dh003i · · Score: 1

    I have a PC. There is no manual eject button for CD's. If I insert one of these CD's, my computer will NEVER START UP AGAIN. Time to sue these fucks. I'll make sure to list in compensation that their DEFECTIVE DISC destroyed thousands of dollars worth of music that I'd downloaded off of KazaaLite/LimeWire.

    --
    social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
  16. Easy way to disable most CD copy protection system by Lars+T. · · Score: 2, Informative

    Articles (A) and (B) (both in German, with pictures). Simply use a felt tip pen or a Post It (may come lose, so watch out) to cover up the start of the "bad" track. Currently works with all CD copy protection systems but "MediaCloq", including "Cactus Data Shield" and "Key2Audio" (the one Sony uses).

    --

    Lars T.

    To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

  17. The first CD I ripped with my new iMac was.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shakira: "Laundry Service"

    So I guess this isn't a for sure kind of deal.

  18. Don't just Bend Over and Take It... by ablair · · Score: 1

    ...I'd encourage you to go out and buy CDs like these and return them the next day to the store for a refund, and make sure they know it's because they won't work in your computer or other device. If enough people annoy enough retailers, the large buyers will figure out it's not worth the hassle and this trial period for copy-protected (non)-CDs will show the record companies standardising on these won't fly. If you all do nothing now, these will be standard in a year or two and we won't be able to do a thing about it. If you don't like it, do something about it.

  19. damage? by GutBomb · · Score: 2

    I am not in support of these pseudo-cds at all, however no damage occurs at all. Sure the computer acts funny while the disc is in the drive and may noy start if the disc is in the drive, but it starts working normally again after it has been ejected.

  20. You would think... by XnetZERO · · Score: 1

    ...that an update to either the OS or drive firmware is in order, though I'm amazed that the system hangs. Does this occur in both MOS9 and MOSX?

  21. Write a driver, apple. by cryptochrome · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Boy, if I bought these CDs I'd be pissed. Apple should write a driver to recognize, read, and rip these CDs, just to piss off the RIAA. Breaking the computer is unacceptable.

    Seriously now... the tech industry has had to put up with a lot of shit from the (comparatively puny) content industry... if they wanted they could probably kill the music industry in short order by providing tools, lobbying, and anti-marketing. Show 'em who's boss.

    --

    ---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?

    1. Re:Write a driver, apple. by twiztidlojik · · Score: 1

      Sure, let's piss off the 1600 lb gorilla -- 1600, not 800, mind you -- of the music industry. That'd go well, and I really think that Apple would be litigated to death before it could even scream first. Now, if some disgruntled Dell employee were to make a driver and surreptitiously include it in every new Dell's software and all the old Dell updates, THAT would be funny. I would laugh my ass off.

      --
      I will now redundantly add my name to the end of my post. You know, in case you forgot me or something.
    2. Re:Write a driver, apple. by brarrr · · Score: 1

      If apple wrote a driver to reconize, read or rip the cds, it would be in violation of the DMCA, or circumventing a copy protection scheme.

      --
      to email me: take my /. handle and append .net preceded by charter.
    3. Re:Write a driver, apple. by Dahan · · Score: 2
      it would be in violation of the DMCA, or circumventing a copy protection scheme.

      Only if that's the primary purpose of the driver... just say that the driver is a fix for the very serious problem of not being able to eject the CDs. When users install the update, they notice that iTunes just happens to be able to rip the CDs too.

  22. Take Action! by rorbaker · · Score: 1

    Just an idea, but what if you went into Best Buy (or other large media store), and bought a non-CD, which I still displayed in the store as a CD. Take said non-CD home, and then returned it the next day? How much money the does the store lose with each return? How many returns would it take before a store would have to start seperating the non-CD's form the CDs. Is there a truth in advertising law that says these non-CD's can;t be sold under the category CD? Just thoughts...

  23. Where To Find Shortcut Key List??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is kinda offtopic, but I would LOVE to know where I could find a list of these shortcuts. I'm picking them up here and there, but is there a book I could buy with them all listed or something?

    Thanks.

    1. Re:Where To Find Shortcut Key List??? by SPYvSPY · · Score: 2

      For OS X, I recommend David Pogue's Missing Manual.

    2. Re:Where To Find Shortcut Key List??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for helping a new guy. Quick bio: new guy (switched for OS X), Ti500. I will NEVER go back. NEVER. Learning the Mac is like learning a new language - I picked up the basics in 15 minutes, but to master it may take a long time. But it is so fun learning this stuff. I finally LIKE my computer/OS! It just kicks the crap out of dealing with typical Wintel hassles. Things are a lot easier on the Mac. Less hair pulling, and when I say, "I wonder if this would work?", IT DOES! In Windows, it's "Jeez, I shoulda known it wouldn't work".

      Of course, when Linux gets good, I'll dual boot, but until then, OS X is soooo good there's no need.

  24. Re:eject /dev/cdrom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, the Slashdot flag is correct. Once again, the Smithsonian is in error.

    Please correct your troll accordingly.

    Zooberman

  25. OpenFirmware by theolein · · Score: 2

    I liked the OF hack: eject cd
    Very simple and very nice in an emergency, since it runs before the computer boots. Maybe some ingenious person will be able to write a little forth code for OF to disable the copy protection mechanism since AFAIK OpenFirmware conrols I/O.

  26. I smell a class-action lawsuit by Wise+Dragon · · Score: 2

    If my mac got damaged by one of these pseudo-cds, I'd be tempted to sue the record company.

  27. Improper Statement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I believe that the statement "Apple (R)ejects Copy Protection" is mistated. I do not believe that apple is opposed to copy protection on it's face. I mean Apple even has limited copy protection on Apple software in the form of serial numbers. I believe apple is opposed to copy protection that will damage apple products as well as products from other manufacturers.
    Simply stating that apple opposes all forms of copy protection is simply wrong in my opinion. I am interested in what everyone else has to say.

    CaptBoom

    On a side note apple really should put a emergency eject hole on the front of there computers. There is a reason for it to be there.

    Further i agree with apples stance on not being responsible for repair costs because the end user inserted a incompatible cd Those cd's are labeled not for use in pc/mac computers albiet in fine print.

  28. Re: CD/DVD eject issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >For the uninitiated, shift-Command-1 on Macs does
    >a force media eject.

    hi
    should this s-c-1 work on all macs(and in all os versions)?

    nothing happens on my tang iMac 400 : (