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Opera 6.0 for Linux Released
e1en0r writes "Opera released 6.0 for Linux and 6.02 for Windows today. The new features include cookie management and plug-in support. I've been using the beta release of Opera 6 for a while now and it's great."
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I have had problems with Java support using Opera. Have they fixed this yet?
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
Especially on Linux, there are at least 3 excellent browsers, or 4 if you count Galeon/Gecko as separate to Mozilla, with none of them having a significant lead over the others as far as I'm aware.
This happy situation, with all the browsers competing against each other on a level playing field unfortunately does not (yet) exist on Windows, but lets hope that soon as Mozilla and Opera both improve the market will balance out again.
Hurray for the benefits of competition!
A advisory was issued on Bugtraq today, and the 2 holes it referenced are fixed by 6.02.
Here's the description (taken from the advisory):
Opera allows the location of a frame to be overwritten by an url
containing the javascript protocoll. The javascript code will be operating
in the same domain as the url that was overwritten. Thus we can read
cookies from other domains, local file structure and private information
from the cache (history of links visited).
Opera is great, but I can't stand the built in ads. I feel like I'm back on NetZero. Besides, Galeon does all those mouse guestures anyway...
Does anyone know how many people are involved in coding opera?
Um, this is my sig.
When I first started comparing browsers Mozilla was slow as dirt and really buggy (fixed since then) and IE was/is insecure so I looked into Opera.
At first I thought that the required ads were going to get annoying, but in truth, they weren't that bad at all. Plus, if I hated them that much I could pay a small fee and get rid of them.
But the best part about Opera is it is the fastest html renderer there is out on the market as far as I am concerned. A second high point to Opera, is that it is completely standard compliant. Unlike some browsers... which one you ask? Um... IE maybe, but that could just be me.
The winner in the pack now has to be Mozilla, but a close second right now is Opera.
...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
in a world where 90% of page designers design for IE, opera sure has a hard time, but it seems to be getting better. in the logs for my web site i am noticing that 94% of my users are using ie, 2% netscape, 2% opera, and 2% others. i would guess that the others would be spiders, mozilla, (unless this also is logged as netscape)kmeleon or konqueror. With opera gaining the same usership as netscape, even though it is only 2 % looks like the mark of success for me. although I am pretty much forced to use ie if i want to see pages the way they are meant to be seen, i have toyed around a bit with opera and love the mouse gestures.
< PLUG >
/PLUG >
Opera is awesome. I've used Opera since version
3 on both Windows and (lately) Linux. If
anyone else out there is sick of MS bullshat,
think about trying it. The early Linux
versions were OK, but now it is (for me) the
hands-down winner for Linux browser.
<
Opera has the best interface. They invinted tabs and gestures. Mozilla has coppied these, though. They also were the first with built-in popup blocking. Unfortunately, it blocks all pop-up's even requested ones. Mozilla now does everything special Opera does (exctept for righ-left click for back and left-right click for forward) and Mozilla has superior popup support.
I can't wait till moz 1.0 comes out. I am building my grandpa a computer with OpenOffice 1.0, Mozilla 1.0, and Slackware (with windowmaker). That's all he needs.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Actually, ASP is a server side scripting language. Opera doesnt interpret .ASP, the webserver does. If a site using ASP (an MS technology btw...) doesnt render correctly on your machine, its not Opera's fault, it is the site developer's.
:)
One thing that might help is to change how Opera identifies itself. On the version I have, it defaults to IE 5, when I have a problem I switch it to Netscape. I occasionally have good results. The reason for this is sometimes an ASP or PHP site will detect your browser and alter its content based on that.
FYI
"Derp de derp."
Man, I havent run a 386 in like 10 years! ;)
On Windows, Opera beats the hell out of IE even with the 'bloat' that you seem to think taints it. I totally enjoy using it, but I do have issues with its stability. Oh well, maybe in version 7...
"Derp de derp."
You can get rid of the advertisement. You just have to pay for it.
Opera Software makes it's living by selling ads or by selling the browser. They used to have a time limited trial version, but decided to get rid of the time limit by making it adware.
So shell out the $40 (or less, can't remember), get rid of the ads, and support the company directly if you like the product.
You even get a discount if you purchase licenses for multiple platforms at the same time.
Numerous pages that load correctly and look the same in Internet Explorer, Mozilla and Konqueror were simply botched by Opera 5. Have they fixed it yet? Opera may be great, but I have no interest in missing information or not being able to use a needed Web site just to support this particular organization.
If Konqueror can get it right and Konqueror is free and well integrated with my Linux system, Opera had better do it much better -- at least as long as they want me to leave open source and to pay for it either with my money or with my "eyeballs".
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
Which part of "Buy Opera today - For the best internet experience Ad Free" do you not understand?
Except it could be argued, How are we to level the playing field (removing IE-only sites), if we browse pretending to be IE?
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
The irony of you complaining about the "bloat" of opera, and then state that you're using Mozilla hasn't been lost. That's a pretty funny joke, really.
Having said that, Opera has finally achieved a level of functionality (err, "bloat". Of course a browser that fits on a floppy wouldn't offer the features that customers needed, and wouldn't have any market presence) that makes it a very worthy replacement for IE on the Windows platform, at least: In my day to day use, 95% of my browsing is with Opera 6, and pretty much the only time that I don't use it is when visiting msdn.microsoft.com : Apart from that I've seldom had the slightest problems, and it offers fetures (such as multiple-windows in one host: I love this) like being able to accept/reject pop-ups (or prompt), among a whole slew of "quick preferences". Mouse gestures rock and I find myself trying to use them in IE all the time.
Opera is a fantastic browser, and if anything its time is just beginning. The advertising banner is unfortunate, but for people willing to pay the small price it is tremendous and well worth every penny.
You know, it's wierd. ASP *is* a server side language, but 9 times out of 10, ASP pages look like shit. My guess is that ASP developers don't give a shit about browsers other than IE, and only test their layouts under that browser.
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
Anyway, I digress. One thing that made me realise how bad Opera's bloat had become was that this Winder guy had run a whole article on theming and customising Opera. Could you do this from the menu bar? NO! Instead, he recommended you download Opera Composer, a separate utility that would let you create a customised executable with the ICQ/Email/News clients removed, and new skins installed. I'd never heard anything so crazy: you have to make your own custom binary to remove the bloat.
At the time, everybody was haranguing Mozilla for being too slow and bloated, yet here was the supposed champ of lightness and fastness forcing you to get extra programs to slim it down!
I'll be honest, though I use Opera at my college, it's because it's either a choice between that or Netscape 4.7 (ie5 is b0rked). I've been using (well, trying to use) Mozilla since the days of M5, and so could be considered one of the faithful.
I dunno. I still maintain Opera is great in terms of providing choice and competition, and they've certainly introduced some cool features like gestures, but I feel they are being outclassed by Mozilla in particular here.
This attitude is just why klez.*, the Outlook exploit of the hour, the IIS compromise of the day, is always so effective.
"I don't really care about security. It's so much easier to just keep my head in the sand."
Opera's warning you about that for a reason.
And you want the next version to knock it off.
Why don't you just use IE and get it over with?
t_t_b
I'm on PJ's "enemies" list! Are you?
Yes, competition is good, but there is a point where there are just too many browsers. As a maker of all things web, it is very difficult to work around all the quirks of these browsers (and yes, *all* browsers have quirks) I have Opera users tell me they are MSIE in their user agents, I have Galeon users thinking they are running Mozilla, and bizarre rendering bugs across the board.
Making things even more difficult, I have to contend with varying and often non-existant toolbar API's which make things like the superb Google Toolbar and (in my mind) the also superb StumbleUpon Toolbar impossible to develop for browsers that are not Mozilla or IE.
I think its time to go for a little Darwinian Selection. Survival of the fittest browser. And I think that browser is Mozilla. Its the most full featured browser out there, it's free, it's open source. I had a couple problems with it, I filed bugs, and they were both fixed within the week! I'm having a hard time finding any flaws with RC2, it's brilliant. For all those who are using alternate browsers because Mozilla is "bloated" and "buggy", check again.
Websurfing done right! StumbleUpon
For a typical slashdot user, the part where you have to give money to someone else for goods or services...
:)
[/troll]
In Soviet Russia...michael would be rotting in Siberia!
It's really the mouse gestures in Opera that make it the winner for me. They seriously make browsing much faster. Since I'm authoring and reading web pages all day, I really notice the small difference adding up. Especially when I have to go back to IE or something. :)
For the uninitiated, mouse gestures in Opera are Palm Graffitti like mouse motions that take the place of button-clicking for some operations. For example, right mouse button+moving the mouse left is like pressing the Back button. Similarly-simple commands exist for maximizing/closing/minimizing windows, etc.
Does Mozilla have similar gesture support? I thought I remember reading about that a while ago, but I haven't been able to find it.
Opera's also very fast. It eats up a lot of RAM by default, but you can edit the RAM cache size in Preferences, which actually makes it run pretty lean (or as lean as you want it to).
The built-in mail reader is quite nice. Fast and simple. The contact list management is nice. It's got instant messaging built-in, but I haven't tried that yet.
Opera does tend to crash at times, but it loads quickly, and when you load it back up it gives you the option of reloading all the URLs it was surfing when the crash occurred. After a crash, I'm up again so quickly that I hardly mind, although it is a bit annoying. Hopefully, this 6.02 release is even more stable.
Well, that's just my two cents about the Win32 version, anyway.
OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
while they won't get rid of all ads Opera does have a few perks to make ads less annoying. Opera can stop pop ups (or put them in background), it can disable animated gifs, and disable javascript (yeah, i know every browser can do the last one). One last cool trick is that in the top left (or wherever you position it) of the window there is a button which will 1) turn off all images on this page, 2)only display cached image, or 3) normal. So Opera definitely has some nice ad stopping abilities, but it can't block the simple banner ads, you still need junkbuster.
Only dead fish swim with the stream...
> Does buying it make these stupid ads go away?
:)
Yes.
Putting this in your user css file and setting it up in Opera/Mozilla makes most of the stupid ads on websites go away too:
http://freak.aagh.net/code/user.css
Just in case you need a reason to dump MSIE
Konqueror is really great and comes in handy especially when you want to use drag it to drag and drop images or files from webpages and FTP servers because of it's tight KDE integration. I hear they have tabs in CVS now too!
Mozilla 1.0rc2 which I'm currently running is stable, has loads of features and actually works with almost every page (including my bank). It is very rare that this browser crasches. A lot of work has been done here for the past few months.
Opera is the non-GPL browser and I actually try to get away from it a little. But once you get used to the mousegestures and the superfast page rendering it's hard to getaway.
Well, off to download!!
Ciryon
But then, I suspect you think Opera should simply give the thing away.
Not at all... However, I certainly see no reason why I should shell out money for a web browser with nearly the exact same functionality that can be found in other, freely available, web browsers.
Dinivin
Not sure why this was funny, but you have the option of running it as MDI or SDI. The tabbed browsing is nice, but I don't like how you have to "Alt-Shift-Click" to do it. Why not just Shift- or Control- click like Mozilla? To me, this is an awesome feature, and I want it as easy to use as possible since I use it so frequently (as I suspect many other here do).
Tough choice for me between Mozilla and Opera. I like the speed (and don't mind paying for it), but it doesn't feel quite as "comfortable" as Mozilla does yet...
Welcome to reality. IE is the standard now, thanks to "embrace and extend." Third parties would do well not to say "but the web page your trying to load is broken," because people will then just use IE.
Its that simple
When I'm in Opera, with 'block popups' enabled, rightclicking & opening in a new window still works.
Unlike IE with a anti-popup applet (don't matter which), which gives you a prompt whether the popup just poped up, or you right clicked & asked for it.
I have been working with javascript, DOM, CSS2 for fun in the evenings, and so far Opera doesn't do enough of what I want it to do. Mozilla seems to be the only browser that supports the DOM as outlined by the W3C, and for that reason, I won't be using it, regardless of how fast it is.
See an example of what I've been doing with Mozilla here. It's a card game that I enjoy on my Handspring Visor and "ported". Works great in Mozilla, but dies in every other browser I've tried.
Ah well. Go Moz!
Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy
I've been using it for yonks & it's always had tabbed browsing
I have quite the opposite view. I paid for the Mac OS X version almost immediately after I downloaded it. In contrast, I haven't paid a dime on Windows. When Opera determines the priority of each platform, the revenue from each makes a major difference. If you use and like the software, pay 'em a few bucks. If Opera never upgrades, then they'll never make any more money from you. You see, paying money actually gives them an incentive to improve.
Personally, I'm not conviced that Opera is the best web browser. But, I figure that investing a few bucks in the hope that competition drives innovation is worthwhile.
Given one hour to live, the student replied: "I'd spend it with professor FP who can make an hour seem like a lifetime."
Why should I pay $39.00 for something that can be obtained for free?
So that software engineers who produce quality products can earn a living.
The majority of people on Slashdot are either paid by the software industry or want to be -- yet they think software should be free. You don't need a PHD in economics to see the flaw with that line of reasoning.
Actually you can install Mozilla with only the browser if you so wish, or only the email client. You don't have to have any of the extra programs if you don't wish to - try using the Installer builds if you don't believe me.
I see people saying stuff like "Mozilla is bloated". That cracks me up. How big is a Mozilla install? About 18mb. Please compare that to Internet Explorer and yes Opera too, and I think you'll find it's favourable.
Now there is an argument that says, well you don't have to install Composer, but parts of it will still be there if you need Messenger, because Messenger uses Composer. This is a valid argument. But really, Mozilla is not bloated as in physically big. I always have it running in the background with FastLoad (when I'm in windows), and never notice it. I can do this, even with IE loaded.
Tabbed browsing in Mozilla has vastly reduced my use of the "back" button...or context menu.
Of course I hear Opera (and the latest Konq) have tabbed browsing also.
-=Maggie Leber=-
The tabbed browsing is nice, but I don't like how you have to "Alt-Shift-Click" to do it. Why not just Shift- or Control- click like Mozilla?
Or even better middle-button click....which for Linux users means both-buttons-at-once. Nice. No shifting required.
-=Maggie Leber=-
In another post, someone is bemoaning how Opera, which previously shipped on a single floppy, has added too much bloat.
Bloat? BLOAT? PuhLEEZE.
Try this on Windoze: from a fresh log-in launch Opera, Mozilla, Internet Exploder and Outlook Express. Then press ALT-CTL-DEL, and click Task Manager, then click the Processes tab. Then take a look at how much RAM each is eating up.
I did this at home, so I don't have the exact numbers handy, but as I recall Mozilla ate about 24MB, IE 7MB, OE 13MB (yikes!), and Opera 6 about 7MB.That's with no sites loaded. Now open up some good, large, complex pages; I tried Slashdot, Salon, CNN, and a few others, the same sites in each browser. In OE, Opera and Mozilla, go sign onto my IMAP email server, just for good measure. Now Mozilla uses 30+MB, IE is up over 20MB, OE is still eating 13MB or so, and Opera is using... about 12MB. Not too shabby.
Now close all the browser windows and log off email. Guess what? Moz is back to 24MB, Opera's back to 7MB, OE still hasnt' changed much, but IE is still sucking down 24MB. Nice garbage collection there, Microsoft.
When you consider that A) Opera provides the functionality of IE *and* OE, and B) some of IE/OE's resource usage is hidden in assorted other "OS" DLLs, Which one is bloated again?
Oh, one last little test... open up a loooong site in each (nice fat thread on Slashdot at Score:0 will do it), then press and hold the down arrow key and see how long it takes to scroll to the bottom. Opera is about twice as fast as Mozilla, and about half again as fast as IE. Add in Opera's industry-best standards compliance and rendering speed, what's not to like?
Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself.
Opera/6.0 (Windows 2000; U) [en]
Is my current user-agent. If some idiot has created a page and chosen to restrict viewing to one or two of the many browsers availible, you tell Opera to report its user-agent as MSIE, but the Opera string is still there, and will show up in the logs:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows 2000; U) Opera 6.0 [en]
Knowing the mental qualities of most page-restrictors, this fools their detection scripts quite nicely. This can blow up in your face, however, if the malicious web designer chooses to intentionally exclude Opera, by denying all browsers that contain 'opera' anywhere. I have complained about this to the Opera support groups but they told me it wasn't possible to do a "complete" fake header. If you want that I guess you have to rewrite user-agent headers with a proxy.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
But at any rate, the upshot is that when he said "6.02" he was actually referring to an older version than the recent 6.0 release, despite what the numbers might make it look like.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
If you mean "renders common IE specific quirks" I don't care; if you mean "The full DOM and all of CSS2" then the programmers are saying version 7.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
I meant 6.02, not 6.2. (Figured I'd get that in before someone reams me over a typo.)
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Of course a browser that fits on a floppy wouldn't offer the features that customers needed, and wouldn't have any market presence
Speaking of browsers that fit on a floppy, check out OffByOne. It's tiny, fast, functional under win32 or wine, and provides the all of the basics. While it's not the most powerful browser out there, it can handle ssl and is extremely slim.
Consider it a halfway-point between Lynx and Opera. :)
You can't compare mechanical engineering and software engineering. Like it or not, all large software projects have bugs... lots of bugs. In a perfect world, there would be no bugs, but in this world the bugs are the standard. Since IE6 is the predominant browser, people code HTML to work around IE6's rendering problems, and if other browsers do not account for these bugs, they will render incorrectly. No browser will ever support W3C's standards perfectly, Mozilla sure doesn't and neither does W3C's own reference browser!
There is only one solution to this problem, and that is to limit the number of browsers. Otherwise there will simply be too many rendering problems for web developers to worry about, and a bunch of the browsers will get left behind. I do not have the time to test my pages in every browser, and neither does anyone else.
Websurfing done right! StumbleUpon
Correction: "Which for *some* linux users, who are stuck using inferior mice without enough buttons (either by choice or otherwise), means both-buttons-at-once."
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Opera's had it for a loooooong time.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
It is false to say that each window being open in an SDI situation has to be another instance of the program running. One running process may be in control of multiple windows. This is how Netscape works, for example, which is why if one Netscape window locks up, they all get locked up. (unless you created the windows as seperate netscape launches instead of picking "file | New Window" off the menu to make the second window.)
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Opera 6.02 for Windows is missing support for bookmarklets. If you use bookmarklets, skip this release and go back to 6.0 or 6.01.
This is sad because while Opera never supported advanced DOM2 bookmarklets, it supported simpler bookmarklets better than other browsers. For example, clicking a bookmarklet in Opera would not cause the page to stop loading, and changes made by bookmarklets would not be lost after hitting the Back button like they are in other browsers.
Rant: first IE 6 doesn't support bookmarklets longer than 508 characters, and now Opera 6.02 doesn't support them at all. Recent versions of Mozilla have a bug where windows created by bookmarklets end up behind the current window (108394) and a bug that prevents the linked-images bookmarklet from working on porn sites (123293). I'm frustrated. Regressions suck.
The shareholder is always right.
I use Opera. I downloaded the ad-containing version to start with and then, when I realized how k3w1 it was, I sent in the $30 they asked for. It's the fastest and smallest of the full-featured browsers, and that counts for a lot.
I can't say much about a native FreeBSD version but as for the rendering web sites improperly.. that isn't Opera's fault. Running silicon.com through the W3C's HTML validator brings up around 89 errors. This is not the fault of opera it is the fault of sloppy web design which has become prevalent around the web.
The reson they, probably, ignored your request was the fact that you where lucky it ran at all since Opera supports, and strictly adheres to, the W3C's standards. Sloppy HTMl,XHTML,XML, etc is very prevalent today and only recently have company's begin to insist on error-free code - something the rest of the programming world tries to do but most Web coders ignored for years. If you are going to bring up the "browser-blah renders it fine" argument yes, it will and Opera won't because opera doesn't have the same type of error control built in on purpose. Strict standards and no more unsupported tags (Netscape was famous for this) are a must to have a truly interoperable web.
BTW, i am curious to see what you mean by 'loads of sites.' I use Opera excuslively and haven't had any problems for months. Even silicon.com was usable. make sure Opera is set to identify itself as 'opera' and note MSIE or Netscape - sometimes people use activex controls or other unsupported crap which might be what is causing silicon.com to not work.
I think he's right. What are these extra features which are worth 39$? I would love to have a reason to support these people but the free alternatives (mostly konqueror 3.0 but I suppose mozilla as well) do 97% of what I need. I really would love to find something to differentiate enough that it's worth +$39...
Under Windows, I finally switched from IE to Opera during 5.02, but the one feature they're really lacking is javascript popup management. If they'd just add the same support they have for cookies, it would be perfect.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Middle button? I'm using a iBook for fucks sake!
I do have one problem with the "software should all be free" attitude, but it is that people refuse to see that something which is open source is harder to charge money for since people could pirate it with almost no effort at all, and thus software that is free in the freedom sense of the word yet not free in the gratis sense of the word is rather rare. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head. I was about to mention Linux
distros, except that with them the price they charge is entirely on the honor system. It is
perfectly legal to buy one Redhat CD and install it on 100 computers, then burn a copy of it for your friends to install on their computers. It is perfectly legal to download the whole ISO image and burn the CD without ever even buying one initial copy to start with. The only reason they can make money at the model is because there are enough people that are willing to pay them money anyway even though they are not legally required to to get the distribution. This is because most of their customer base consists of "fans" and others who want to see them do well. That model doesn't work if Redhat use was expanded to the computer using populace at large.
But saying, "these people don't realize that freedom of use inevitably leads to gratis distribtion" (which is my point) is very different from saying "These people are lazy-ass bums who want everything to be gratis" (which is how your post ends up implying things).
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
... integrate well with Sun's StarOffice 6.0, which was also released today?
You think the web begins and ends at the desktop.
It doesn't. A major piece of Opera's business is embedded space. That their embedded and desktop browsers share the same lightweight core is an enormous boast. Mozilla is too bloated in this respect. Part of the reason it's lightweight is because it doesn't attempt to kludge around the errors of browsers past. It's standards support still remains strong. The only thing seriously missing being DOM support, but DOM usage should be reserved for applications in a closed environment, not the public web in any case.
Opera clearly identifies itself in it's UA string, a knowledgable webmaster can easily deal with that. The UA spoofing is only there for the scarily large percentage of clueless webmasters....
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
I want to turn it on and off per site.
The way they allow you to allow and reject cookies per domain.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
I think you are it buddy, sorry.
sic transit gloria mundi
I have complained about this to the Opera support groups [opera.com] but they told me it wasn't possible to do a "complete" fake header. If you want that I guess you have to rewrite user-agent headers with a proxy.
One agent (on Windows) that can do this is the proxomitron:
http://www.internetmall.net/prox/
Which I highly reccomend - it can totally rewrite any incoming and outgoing HTML. So it could make IE look like mozilla (No, I can't think of a reason to do this either).
Michael
There is no cryptographic solution to the problem where the intended receiver and the attacker are the same entity.
- Opera generally renders pages better than Konqueror. That's a biggie.
- Very fast and easy switching of preferences. For example, changing identifying the browser from Opera to IE with one mouse click, or changing from displaying images to no images to only already-loaded images with one click. The "author mode/user mode" toggle is a fantastic idea. How many times have you come across a page where the text is 6 point type in dark blue on a dark red background, or something similarly unreadable? Being able to fix that with one click is a great thing.
- Mouse gestures. (Working mouse gestures, not "oh, download and install this extra component...")
- An interface that's both MDI and SDI - you can have multiple windows and tabs within a single window at the same time.
- Very integrated search (and now translation!) capabilities. There's a search field in the address bar, and you can highlight text in a window and right-click to search for that text or translate it.
Lastly, I think it's a good idea to support anyone who writes software for Linux, even if it is commercial software. I'd hate to see Opera fail and then have people point to it as an example of why you just can't bother to compete with Microsoft. In the long run, that's going to hurt us a lot more than paying the $39 will.>Of course I hear Opera (and the latest Konq) have tabbed browsing also.
Yes, and Mozilla also has got mouse gestures, another thing plagarized from Opera.
Btw, anyone want to bet against MSIE 7.0 having tabbed browsing and mouse gestures?
--
"I'm surfin the dead zone
In the twilight, unknown"
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 2000) Opera 6.02 [en]
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Another funny thing is that older versions of Opera by default, after installation, identified themselves as Internet explorer. You would think that it would be in their own interrest to advertise their browser in web logs..?
Can anybody say if they changed this with the new 6.02 version? I can unforunately not see it myself, since my settings were kept when I upgraded.
--
"I'm surfin the dead zone
In the twilight, unknown"
So many, indeed, that Mozilla is copying it. Imitation is the sincerist form of flattery.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
Sure, turn off image loading and window creation and you'll get about 99% of them. You can do that without paying for it too. It's not all that horribly difficult to turn the ads off if you're technical at all anyway, of course, but paying a few bucks for the browser is completely reasonable when it's been consistently the best browser out there since 3.12, and upgrades are usually free.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
No, but talking about Opera coders, I saw something today:
/ Östergötlands län/... There you will find the ad. :)
Opera software is hiring C++ programmer, Linköping, Sweden
The page is in swedish and the link *might* not work for very long (ams.se frequently changes their links).
But if you live in Sweden and want to work for Opera (well, Hern labs), go to www.ams.se and then click Platsbanken/yrkesvis/Teknik|data/dataspecialister
--
"I'm surfin the dead zone
In the twilight, unknown"
*yawn*
Yeah, potentially putting people out of work and damaging an entire industry sure is boring isn't it?
Moron.
Opera is a very good browser, as far as the engine goes, but it comes up short where the interface is concerned.
If you have multiple tabs open, and close one, the next one made active is the one last opened. That means that the order can been terribly random. With Mozilla, you close one tab and it takes you to the next one to the left. Quite simple.
Opera's interface has always been bulky, and a bit weird. You have forward and back buttons on the main toolbar, but the stop button (was) only on the windows' toolbar.
Mozilla allows you to better customize javascript permissions, and don't even get me started on Opera's bookmark system (hotlist).
As far as I'm concerned, the only thing Opera has to offer that Mozilla hasn't, is the button to easilly toggle from 'Autor' to 'User' Mode. What this does is allow you on a per-window basis to easilly switch between the colors & fonts the page has defined, and the color/font you have defined. You'll appreciate this if you've ever visited a page with fonts so small you couldn't read them, or page colors that either blind you, or blend the fonts with the bacground so you can't really read it.
I realize that Mozilla eats up much more Memory and CPU power, but that's just something the needs to be gradually improved on. Even as it is, it's requirements fit my machines just fine.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
I see people saying stuff like "Mozilla is bloated".
That cracks me up. How big is a Mozilla install? About 18mb. Please compare
that to Internet Explorer and yes Opera too, and I think you'll find it's favourable.
Slackware package created by checkinstall:
du -sh opera-6.0-20020510.1-static-qt.i386-pak.tgz
4.6M opera-6.0-20020510.1-static-qt.i386-pak.tgz
And that's the static, not the shared.
SealBeater
-- Its survival of the fittest...and we got the fucking guns!!!
...another thing plagarized from Opera...
:-)
;-)
Oh, dear...I suppose that choice of words is yet another way you can tell Opera isn't open-source.
So I assume Opera patented tabbed browsing then?
-=Maggie Leber=-
who are stuck using inferior mice without enough buttons...
;-)
Actually, this mouse would probably have a middle button, but apparently some silly person put a big red marble there instead. Think of it as a wheel mouse with two degrees of freedom on the wheel.
If you're into many-buttoned mice, why not just put puck feet on your keyboard? Go directly from Qwerty to Ouija. Do not pass Dvorak, do not collect $200.
-=Maggie Leber=-
And you don't need a PhD in linguistics to understand that "free" has two independant meanings in English and you (and the person you are responding to) are using the shallow one.
When someone says "Why should I pay $39.00 for something that can be obtained for free?", it would be pretty f****** stupid for me to respond as if he had used the word "free" in the context of "freedom", now wouldn't it?
And neither meaning is more "shallow" than the other. They are just different.
Strict standards and no more unsupported tags (Netscape was famous for this) are a must to have a truly interoperable web.
:-) i'll start using Opera and the like.
While I at it, I preffer to see the web as it was mean to be (the way the lazy programmers did it), even if it means 20MB less of ram.
When everthing is w3c conforming (or XMLd
I know i'm not right (in the sense that having "enti-error" in the renderes slows correcting the code), but hey, at least I can show some Windows users that what we have is better (i use the MS fonts so that it looks exactly the same, but with tabs, etc.). And they judge based on what they can see. No evangelion tactics work against the ALL MIGHTY eye.
unfinished: (adj.)
You are trolling. Denying it is not helping anyone.
....
Opera does NOT render pages better than konqueror. In fact opera does not even allow setting a background with CSS!
Konqueror does have fast switching of settings. Install the kdeaddons for additional menue entries, you can put any of them in the toolbar. You can choose a custom stylesheet("author mode")
Mouse gestures are being developed, so that might be valid, they are not ready yet.
Konqueror is MDI, SDI and split.
Konqueror has integrated search. Just type
gg:my search term
Or ggg: or ggl: Or hotbot: or rpm: or sf:
Moritz
Obligatory browser-plugging comment: Dillo is free and very fast. It doesn't support frames or Javascript, but they suck anyway. I'm using it to read Slashdot and post this comment now (while pouring hot grits down my pants ;-)).
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
...I assume Opera patented tabbed browsing then...
Nah, some Amiga browser (IBrowse I think) had tabbed browsing before. So, I guess Opera plagiarized it from them, in turn.
--
"I'm surfin the dead zone
In the twilight, unknown"
"Not possible" or "Not possible because they don't want to do it"?
Of course, I've never seen the code but I utterly fail to see how it's not possible to change a couple of lines of code (at the most) so that "Opera" part isn't in there at all.
Hell, I can fake the IE User Agent *perfectly* with telnet and a bit of typing. I can't see why they can't.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
I imagine the reason they dont is because if you go to Hotmail with Opera, then you get a message saying something along the lines of 'This browser wont work, T.S.'.
*kicks MS*
"Derp de derp."
Good: Opera 6.02 is small and fast.
Bad: Opera 6.02 STILL can't remember my slashdot cookies.
[o]_O
If you want to buy products out of a sense of charity then go ahead. But you're going to have to get used to the fact that most people won't.
It's not a sense of charity. It's the ability to see past the individual purchase. Do I want to have competition or not? Do I want Microsoft to simply be the only major commercial software vendor left in ten years?
Look at Mandrake's business model: "Give us money if you like our product." That's the whole idea behind shareware (real shareware, not the crippleware that poses as shareware now). I register programs like Trillian, UltraEdit, and Opera because I think that its fair. It's not because I can't find a crack for them or, in the case of programs like Trillian, use them for free. I recognize that paying for software keeps the industry healthy and helps insure competition. That's more important than whether I could save $40 here and there.
Sure, if your reply was constrained to only talking about that one person. But you then expanded it to the community at large, applying your criticism to everyone who says software should be free yet wants to be paid themselves, as if that was a contradiction (which IS implying that everyone who says "software should be free" is talking only about price. I agree that that is what this one person was talking about, but your rant encompassed more than this one person.)
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.