Slashdot Mirror
Opera 6.0 for Linux Released
e1en0r writes "Opera released 6.0 for Linux and 6.02 for Windows today. The new features include cookie management and plug-in support. I've been using the beta release of Opera 6 for a while now and it's great."
← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)
I have had problems with Java support using Opera. Have they fixed this yet?
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
I don't think it is as they claim, "the fastest browser in the world", but it's not that bad. I really like the easy preference management and the ad is very small for the free version.
Especially on Linux, there are at least 3 excellent browsers, or 4 if you count Galeon/Gecko as separate to Mozilla, with none of them having a significant lead over the others as far as I'm aware.
This happy situation, with all the browsers competing against each other on a level playing field unfortunately does not (yet) exist on Windows, but lets hope that soon as Mozilla and Opera both improve the market will balance out again.
Hurray for the benefits of competition!
I wanted to use Opera on my new(ish) Linux box, but it sometimes rendered just the headers of a page (such as Slashdot) and then stopped. Sometimes the failed pages were ASP, but I know it would be a reaaally cold day somewhere before Slashdot uses ASP. Anyway, I never figured out what I needed to set to make Opera load the whole page. Help for a newbie?
It might not be open source but it's still a fast and reliable browser and better than Mozilla in my taste.
A advisory was issued on Bugtraq today, and the 2 holes it referenced are fixed by 6.02.
Here's the description (taken from the advisory):
Opera allows the location of a frame to be overwritten by an url
containing the javascript protocoll. The javascript code will be operating
in the same domain as the url that was overwritten. Thus we can read
cookies from other domains, local file structure and private information
from the cache (history of links visited).
Opera is great, but I can't stand the built in ads. I feel like I'm back on NetZero. Besides, Galeon does all those mouse guestures anyway...
As a loyal Mozilla user, I still find it's great to have good competitive options for users. It gives everyone involved more incentive to produce the best browsers possible.
And, as long as everyone is serious about sticking with standards this time, that's great for all of us. (And bonus points to Opera for its excellent support of PNG (like Mozilla!)... now if only a certain browser produced by a certain company in Washington would support PNG transparency correctly...)
Does anyone know how many people are involved in coding opera?
Um, this is my sig.
Puke!
Moderation totals: 5 troll, 10 offtopic, 3,432,121 flamebait
I refuse to use the opera browser simply because of the advertisement banner displayed up top. Opera is great, and will continue to get better, dont get me wrong. The day they remove that advetisement banner I will ditch IE. Just my opinion. -Robbie
When I first started comparing browsers Mozilla was slow as dirt and really buggy (fixed since then) and IE was/is insecure so I looked into Opera.
At first I thought that the required ads were going to get annoying, but in truth, they weren't that bad at all. Plus, if I hated them that much I could pay a small fee and get rid of them.
But the best part about Opera is it is the fastest html renderer there is out on the market as far as I am concerned. A second high point to Opera, is that it is completely standard compliant. Unlike some browsers... which one you ask? Um... IE maybe, but that could just be me.
The winner in the pack now has to be Mozilla, but a close second right now is Opera.
...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
in a world where 90% of page designers design for IE, opera sure has a hard time, but it seems to be getting better. in the logs for my web site i am noticing that 94% of my users are using ie, 2% netscape, 2% opera, and 2% others. i would guess that the others would be spiders, mozilla, (unless this also is logged as netscape)kmeleon or konqueror. With opera gaining the same usership as netscape, even though it is only 2 % looks like the mark of success for me. although I am pretty much forced to use ie if i want to see pages the way they are meant to be seen, i have toyed around a bit with opera and love the mouse gestures.
< PLUG >
/PLUG >
Opera is awesome. I've used Opera since version
3 on both Windows and (lately) Linux. If
anyone else out there is sick of MS bullshat,
think about trying it. The early Linux
versions were OK, but now it is (for me) the
hands-down winner for Linux browser.
<
Opera has the best interface. They invinted tabs and gestures. Mozilla has coppied these, though. They also were the first with built-in popup blocking. Unfortunately, it blocks all pop-up's even requested ones. Mozilla now does everything special Opera does (exctept for righ-left click for back and left-right click for forward) and Mozilla has superior popup support.
I can't wait till moz 1.0 comes out. I am building my grandpa a computer with OpenOffice 1.0, Mozilla 1.0, and Slackware (with windowmaker). That's all he needs.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
. . . because they haven't released a final version for Mac OS X. It's been in fourth effin' beta for months, now. When is the fat lady gonna sing?
Fortunately, Mozilla rocks.
On Windoze, I set Opera as the default app for opening html docs. When I click on an html file, it opens in Opera, along with ANOTHER instance that displays my home page. Ugggh.
Man, I havent run a 386 in like 10 years! ;)
On Windows, Opera beats the hell out of IE even with the 'bloat' that you seem to think taints it. I totally enjoy using it, but I do have issues with its stability. Oh well, maybe in version 7...
"Derp de derp."
It sure would be nice if they'd remember that old OS - Solaris.
I am using (loosely speaking) Opera 5b1 on Solaris, yet it either core dumps or bus errors at least 15 times a day on me.
I am used to Opera from Windows and Linux and would like to use it on Solaris at work, but it is pretty bad. Does anyone know if a usable Opera will ever be released for Solaris?
I'm running an old Win98 box at work and Opera wins hands-down over IE for me. Speed is the issue; I spend less time waiting for stuff to load. I also don't have to wonder which confidential data it's busy sending to MS Corp. while I wait.
Think, write, think, edit, think...then post.
Numerous pages that load correctly and look the same in Internet Explorer, Mozilla and Konqueror were simply botched by Opera 5. Have they fixed it yet? Opera may be great, but I have no interest in missing information or not being able to use a needed Web site just to support this particular organization.
If Konqueror can get it right and Konqueror is free and well integrated with my Linux system, Opera had better do it much better -- at least as long as they want me to leave open source and to pay for it either with my money or with my "eyeballs".
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
Because some webmasters a truely morons, some websites cannot be accessed by anything other than a browser reporting to be IE. For this reason Opera has an option to report itself as other browsers (Mozilla is also an option). I know I have this checked and I'm sure many others do, so so its quite likely the percentage of opera users is much higher than 2%.
Click here to read too much about my personal life
I wholeheartedly agree. I'd definitely pay for a version of Opera that actually works on Solaris.
Version 5b1 totally stinks on the Sun what with all the bus errors and core dumps.
Every Opera download is a one lost Mozilla download.
Actually, I download pretty much all releases of both of them (not counting nightlies), so no downloads are lost to Mozilla. It is just that I like Opera better, generally.
Whenever a page is not working in Opera, however, I will usually try it in Mozilla (if the page is important enough to me), and it will work. So if the Mozilla interface is ever improved to be as fast and with all the nice shortcuts of Opera, they might indeed get my "download".
I guess someone will tell me to use Galeon now; I tried, never got it working reliably.
I've been using Opera for Windows for some time now. When I can use my Linux distro I prefer to use Opera for the browser. The one thing that always gets on my nerves is when I'm entering my username and password for Yahoo! mail I always get, "A script wants to read your password." I know it's for protective reasons, it's just annoying. I will upgrade to 6.02 and hopefully this will be taken care of. If anyone knows it is, a reply to this stating so would be much appreciated.
Abiit, excessit, evasit, erupit.
The irony of you complaining about the "bloat" of opera, and then state that you're using Mozilla hasn't been lost. That's a pretty funny joke, really.
Having said that, Opera has finally achieved a level of functionality (err, "bloat". Of course a browser that fits on a floppy wouldn't offer the features that customers needed, and wouldn't have any market presence) that makes it a very worthy replacement for IE on the Windows platform, at least: In my day to day use, 95% of my browsing is with Opera 6, and pretty much the only time that I don't use it is when visiting msdn.microsoft.com : Apart from that I've seldom had the slightest problems, and it offers fetures (such as multiple-windows in one host: I love this) like being able to accept/reject pop-ups (or prompt), among a whole slew of "quick preferences". Mouse gestures rock and I find myself trying to use them in IE all the time.
Opera is a fantastic browser, and if anything its time is just beginning. The advertising banner is unfortunate, but for people willing to pay the small price it is tremendous and well worth every penny.
All these wonderful ports of Opera to "lesser" OSen. I realize there is little sense to challenge "Pocket IE" (bundling and all) but why won't Opera develop a version for Windows CE / Windows CE Professional / PocketPC / PocketPC 2000 / PocketPC 2002 / Windows CE .NET ???
Something nice and small for my WorkPad z50 to boost the productivity of Windows CE. There were rumors about of Mozilla/Netscape bringing NSPR to Windows CE, but here's a company willing and apparently able to port to handhelds / palmtops. Even a trimmed down Opera would be better than Pocket IE. They could even throw in Personal Java support for applets!
Signed,
frustrated with P.I.E.
alpha as in alpha version, not alpha cpu :)
I use Opera 5 for linux in under freebsd. Its very fast (freebsd linux emulation isn't *really* emulation, just x86 code execution..), and it's very stable.
Each time a new V6 beta comes out, I install it, then moments later revert to V5 because 6 appears to have a problem with multiple concurrent connections - try opening a gif heavy page and half the connections just hang forever.
Does anyone else have this problem with 6 betas on freebsd? Does the new one fix it?
--
ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!
Behold the Lord High Web Browser! A browser of noble rank and title-- A dignified and potent explorer, Whose functions are particularly vital! Defer, defer, To the Lord High Web Browser! Defer, defer, To the noble Lord, to the noble Lord, The Lord High Web Browser!
Does buying it make these stupid ads go away?
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Anyway, I digress. One thing that made me realise how bad Opera's bloat had become was that this Winder guy had run a whole article on theming and customising Opera. Could you do this from the menu bar? NO! Instead, he recommended you download Opera Composer, a separate utility that would let you create a customised executable with the ICQ/Email/News clients removed, and new skins installed. I'd never heard anything so crazy: you have to make your own custom binary to remove the bloat.
At the time, everybody was haranguing Mozilla for being too slow and bloated, yet here was the supposed champ of lightness and fastness forcing you to get extra programs to slim it down!
I'll be honest, though I use Opera at my college, it's because it's either a choice between that or Netscape 4.7 (ie5 is b0rked). I've been using (well, trying to use) Mozilla since the days of M5, and so could be considered one of the faithful.
I dunno. I still maintain Opera is great in terms of providing choice and competition, and they've certainly introduced some cool features like gestures, but I feel they are being outclassed by Mozilla in particular here.
Yes, competition is good, but there is a point where there are just too many browsers. As a maker of all things web, it is very difficult to work around all the quirks of these browsers (and yes, *all* browsers have quirks) I have Opera users tell me they are MSIE in their user agents, I have Galeon users thinking they are running Mozilla, and bizarre rendering bugs across the board.
Making things even more difficult, I have to contend with varying and often non-existant toolbar API's which make things like the superb Google Toolbar and (in my mind) the also superb StumbleUpon Toolbar impossible to develop for browsers that are not Mozilla or IE.
I think its time to go for a little Darwinian Selection. Survival of the fittest browser. And I think that browser is Mozilla. Its the most full featured browser out there, it's free, it's open source. I had a couple problems with it, I filed bugs, and they were both fixed within the week! I'm having a hard time finding any flaws with RC2, it's brilliant. For all those who are using alternate browsers because Mozilla is "bloated" and "buggy", check again.
Websurfing done right! StumbleUpon
True, however, the innovation which takes place in the Open Source arena pushes Opera, Konqueror, Mozilla, et al, to new heights of user friendliness, usability, and features, which is all the better for Linux to underscore it's strengths and the weakness of someone's FUD about modular operating systems.
Not to be confused with the Borg's idea of embrace and extend.
Not bugs, security holes, standards non-compliant, e.g. IE.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
It's really the mouse gestures in Opera that make it the winner for me. They seriously make browsing much faster. Since I'm authoring and reading web pages all day, I really notice the small difference adding up. Especially when I have to go back to IE or something. :)
For the uninitiated, mouse gestures in Opera are Palm Graffitti like mouse motions that take the place of button-clicking for some operations. For example, right mouse button+moving the mouse left is like pressing the Back button. Similarly-simple commands exist for maximizing/closing/minimizing windows, etc.
Does Mozilla have similar gesture support? I thought I remember reading about that a while ago, but I haven't been able to find it.
Opera's also very fast. It eats up a lot of RAM by default, but you can edit the RAM cache size in Preferences, which actually makes it run pretty lean (or as lean as you want it to).
The built-in mail reader is quite nice. Fast and simple. The contact list management is nice. It's got instant messaging built-in, but I haven't tried that yet.
Opera does tend to crash at times, but it loads quickly, and when you load it back up it gives you the option of reloading all the URLs it was surfing when the crash occurred. After a crash, I'm up again so quickly that I hardly mind, although it is a bit annoying. Hopefully, this 6.02 release is even more stable.
Well, that's just my two cents about the Win32 version, anyway.
OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
... I'm very impressed. I've quit using opera a while back due to lack of [decent] CSS implementation and a few other quirks..
I just downloaded Opera 6, and I must say, i've found a new web browser!
(It's very easy to switch since it can import your bookmarks from IE , Netscape, or KDE)
The only thing i've noticed so far is that if you have a </p> tag with no <p> it ignores it, whereas IE & Netscape see that and start a new paragraph..
I'm running debian on a Sparc 5 and, alas, the latest version for linux on sparc hardware is 5.0.
It's too bad, I use Opera almost exclusively on my WinNT machine at work.
I've been using Opera 6.0 (for Windows) for a while, but now I switched to Mozilla. Mazilla and Opera are almost equally comfortable to use - as long as you install Optimoz for Mozilla. Also, if Mozilla wouldn't have tabs it would be far behind.
;( ) as Opera (or, seems so). It also has a much greater number of plugins for it (look at mozdev.org; my favourite after Optimoz is BannerBlind. Mozilla Mail is useful, while the mailer in Opera seems lame to me. Finally, no ads and adware on the computer...
One great feature of Opera is that pop-ups don't ever get to your taskbar, and there is an option to force them behind all other windows. Even if Mozilla could open pop-ups in tabs behind all others, they would still occupy the whole window. Still, it would be have to have this in Mozilla. Also, when you start a download in Opera, it already is downloading the file when you are dealing with the "Save As..." dialog. Another thing I wish for Mozilla.
There are several reasons I switched to Mozilla. First, it seems to render IE-oriented pages better. In fact, I haven't seen one page I really needed to open IE for. Mozilla as fast in browsing (and as slow in startup
So, Opera is great, but I like Mozilla better.
Konqueror is really great and comes in handy especially when you want to use drag it to drag and drop images or files from webpages and FTP servers because of it's tight KDE integration. I hear they have tabs in CVS now too!
Mozilla 1.0rc2 which I'm currently running is stable, has loads of features and actually works with almost every page (including my bank). It is very rare that this browser crasches. A lot of work has been done here for the past few months.
Opera is the non-GPL browser and I actually try to get away from it a little. But once you get used to the mousegestures and the superfast page rendering it's hard to getaway.
Well, off to download!!
Ciryon
I cant see you doing that with Netscape/IE/Mozilla short of doing your own build... and thats not gonna win any large marketshare!
Opera is a browser primarily and doesent pretend to be something else. Netscape and Mozilla has fully fledged email-clients, HTML composers (that sucks!) and news readers... and IE pretends to be an OS (that sucks!) ...
Opera have everything I want from a browser. Now I wish the Internet would start following standards. *G*
"Mouse Gestures"* the damn thing just becomes a habit real fast. have cought myself gesturing in galeon, konqueror and explorer. it also has a nifty hold down left/right button, click the other, and *bam*(back forward).
btw have had 6.ob2 chrasing quite frequently under linux
*back/forward by holding down right mouse and "gesturing" left/right
go back or forward pages
open link in new window
open a duplicate window (handy for forking searches)
switch browser windows (if you have a wheelmouse)
minimize a window
close a window?
Sure saves me time going to the Back icon or minimize or other buttons. See the Help..mouse menu for instructions. Yay Opera!
erm, linux is a kernel. Why don't you try afterstep or windomaker if you don't like whatever WM you were using. I use as daily and I find it's more intuitive than m$ interface once you get it to your liking.
I live in a giant bucket.
Welcome to reality. IE is the standard now, thanks to "embrace and extend." Third parties would do well not to say "but the web page your trying to load is broken," because people will then just use IE.
Popularity usually leads to software bloat, and I hope this doesn't happen to Opera. If it does, we'll have to change its name to Operah.
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
Its that simple
...go away if you press F11 and make it go fullscreen. I devote a desktop to it (Afterstep makes this nice), some might not prefer that.
It's my choice for my 233.
I Support Fair Use
When I'm in Opera, with 'block popups' enabled, rightclicking & opening in a new window still works.
Unlike IE with a anti-popup applet (don't matter which), which gives you a prompt whether the popup just poped up, or you right clicked & asked for it.
I have been working with javascript, DOM, CSS2 for fun in the evenings, and so far Opera doesn't do enough of what I want it to do. Mozilla seems to be the only browser that supports the DOM as outlined by the W3C, and for that reason, I won't be using it, regardless of how fast it is.
See an example of what I've been doing with Mozilla here. It's a card game that I enjoy on my Handspring Visor and "ported". Works great in Mozilla, but dies in every other browser I've tried.
Ah well. Go Moz!
Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy
I have a middle-aged computer at this point and I run Mozilla on it both under Windows and under Linux and I have to say that, appart from a few minor and hopefully fixable gitches, Mozilla is a great browser even under Windows, better than IE for a number of reasons.
I've been using it for yonks & it's always had tabbed browsing
yeah, that Mozilla sure runs smoothly on my
old 386 with 6Mb RAM.
PS: can you spot the sarcasm?
-Bjørn
Now you're the one making factual mistakes. The email and news clients (maybe messaging too, haven't bothered looking) are just DLLs (in the win32 build), whose inclusion is easy to avoid by a couple of clicks in preferences or simply removing the files (worked a while back at least -- I got Opera 5 onto a single 1.4Mb floppy with space to spare)
I have not used this "composer" program, but I seriously question that it works anything like what you have put forth.
I've been a Opera user since 3.x, and I love it. It's not perfect, far from it. I have a whole list of things I'd like to see, like better popup management and more developer features like logging of all HTTP I/O (requests and answers) and the like. I just feel that calling it bloated is plain wrong. I does use a great deal of memory if you allow memory-caching, but that's sort of the point of that feature.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
Actually you can install Mozilla with only the browser if you so wish, or only the email client. You don't have to have any of the extra programs if you don't wish to - try using the Installer builds if you don't believe me.
I see people saying stuff like "Mozilla is bloated". That cracks me up. How big is a Mozilla install? About 18mb. Please compare that to Internet Explorer and yes Opera too, and I think you'll find it's favourable.
Now there is an argument that says, well you don't have to install Composer, but parts of it will still be there if you need Messenger, because Messenger uses Composer. This is a valid argument. But really, Mozilla is not bloated as in physically big. I always have it running in the background with FastLoad (when I'm in windows), and never notice it. I can do this, even with IE loaded.
Tabbed browsing in Mozilla has vastly reduced my use of the "back" button...or context menu.
Of course I hear Opera (and the latest Konq) have tabbed browsing also.
-=Maggie Leber=-
I'll second that. I don't know how many times rightclick-dragdown-release has saved my butt, but Opera smokes all comers. My girlfriend is afraid of the interface, and I guess I was too, when I first downloaded v.5.whatever. Once I realized how easily you could customize it, tho, I loved it. F12! P.S. Use the real Opera interface -- don't cheat and use the IE-emulation mode. Everything about IE is as fucked up as a football bat, interface included.
"Thank you, God, for your healing gift of religion."
rpm -U --nodep operablahblah
Done, baby.
Looks nice, remembered my 5.0 layout,
me likey. Pulled down the RedHat RPM from www.planetmirror.org and jammed it onto my Mandrake laptop (work machine), very fast and nice new look.
LR
The new features include cookie management and plug-in support.
What a waste of effort. When is going to finally have the "doesn't crash mysteriously" and "renders popular pages properly" features?
In another post, someone is bemoaning how Opera, which previously shipped on a single floppy, has added too much bloat.
Bloat? BLOAT? PuhLEEZE.
Try this on Windoze: from a fresh log-in launch Opera, Mozilla, Internet Exploder and Outlook Express. Then press ALT-CTL-DEL, and click Task Manager, then click the Processes tab. Then take a look at how much RAM each is eating up.
I did this at home, so I don't have the exact numbers handy, but as I recall Mozilla ate about 24MB, IE 7MB, OE 13MB (yikes!), and Opera 6 about 7MB.That's with no sites loaded. Now open up some good, large, complex pages; I tried Slashdot, Salon, CNN, and a few others, the same sites in each browser. In OE, Opera and Mozilla, go sign onto my IMAP email server, just for good measure. Now Mozilla uses 30+MB, IE is up over 20MB, OE is still eating 13MB or so, and Opera is using... about 12MB. Not too shabby.
Now close all the browser windows and log off email. Guess what? Moz is back to 24MB, Opera's back to 7MB, OE still hasnt' changed much, but IE is still sucking down 24MB. Nice garbage collection there, Microsoft.
When you consider that A) Opera provides the functionality of IE *and* OE, and B) some of IE/OE's resource usage is hidden in assorted other "OS" DLLs, Which one is bloated again?
Oh, one last little test... open up a loooong site in each (nice fat thread on Slashdot at Score:0 will do it), then press and hold the down arrow key and see how long it takes to scroll to the bottom. Opera is about twice as fast as Mozilla, and about half again as fast as IE. Add in Opera's industry-best standards compliance and rendering speed, what's not to like?
Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself.
I am writing this reply within Opera running on FreeBSD. Works like a champ! Make sure, however, that you have the linux-png and linux-jpeg packages. You can probably wait a few days for a package to appear on freshports. Flash works, too!
But at any rate, the upshot is that when he said "6.02" he was actually referring to an older version than the recent 6.0 release, despite what the numbers might make it look like.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
So I installed the final Opera 6.0 release and, surprise, it still complains that:
I have both posted on Opera's bug report site and previously e-mailed their tech support on this a dozen times and still get the same clueless answer that "there is something wrong with the Debian dependencies". The correct answer is that Debian dependencies are not file-based but package-based. For some reason, Opera people do not appear to have the brains to understand this simple concept and thus Opera still insists that a recommended file is not instalable, where it should instead look if a series of possible packages known to provide the file are available.
Software is not supposed to be about how to work around a useability issue. - Ken Barber
I meant 6.02, not 6.2. (Figured I'd get that in before someone reams me over a typo.)
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Of course a browser that fits on a floppy wouldn't offer the features that customers needed, and wouldn't have any market presence
Speaking of browsers that fit on a floppy, check out OffByOne. It's tiny, fast, functional under win32 or wine, and provides the all of the basics. While it's not the most powerful browser out there, it can handle ssl and is extremely slim.
Consider it a halfway-point between Lynx and Opera. :)
You can't compare mechanical engineering and software engineering. Like it or not, all large software projects have bugs... lots of bugs. In a perfect world, there would be no bugs, but in this world the bugs are the standard. Since IE6 is the predominant browser, people code HTML to work around IE6's rendering problems, and if other browsers do not account for these bugs, they will render incorrectly. No browser will ever support W3C's standards perfectly, Mozilla sure doesn't and neither does W3C's own reference browser!
There is only one solution to this problem, and that is to limit the number of browsers. Otherwise there will simply be too many rendering problems for web developers to worry about, and a bunch of the browsers will get left behind. I do not have the time to test my pages in every browser, and neither does anyone else.
Websurfing done right! StumbleUpon
The new Windows version includes a module for
I've been using Opera for about 18 months now. I use it all the time at work on Win NT, I haven't touched IE for months.
When I was working on e-commerce stuff it was much better for testing stuff, better standards compliance, right-click validate HTML option, useful JavaScript error messages (unlike IE), etc.
The "hold right button/click left" for back and "hold left/click right" for forward have become indispensible.
I also use it as my main browser on Linux at home (using it now), occassionally use Mozilla to check the look of pages, but Opera's number 1 for me.
The hotlist is useful too. Can set up a page of links to include in the sidebar, or using the integrated news client, browse USENET groups easily. I've got the Slashdot headlines in there as well.
The MDI knocks spots of IE and even the tabbed browsing of Mozilla/Galeon.
Along with <a href="http://fluxbox.sourceforge.net">Fluxbox&l t;/a>, it's one of my most valuable pieces of software.
Suck figs.
Well I ****ed that up didn't I? The link is here.
Suck figs.
Opera is wonderful. I have been using it since version 3.41 for Windows. Opera users, unite! Set your browser to identify as Opera! Stand up and be counted!
My deviantArt site
Try Silicon.com if you want an example that fails. And yes, I HAVE told them.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Opera's had it for a loooooong time.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
Yes, Opera does choke on some webpages, but the overall number has dropped substantially with version 6.0. The problem seems to stem from web designers who don't bother checking their HTML properly. It seems that the average arrogant web designer tests his pages on IE 5.5, and, if you're lucky, he'll give 'em a run on Netscape/Mozilla. If he's really good, he'll remember the portion of the population that has old computers and test them on earlier versions of IE and Netscape. If he's actually competent, he'll run the pages through a validator and then fix it so it works with multiple versions of both browsers. And if he's fantastic, he'll check it with Lynx, too.
I have a standard email that I send whenever I encounter a page that doesn't render properly with Opera. It takes me maybe 30 seconds to fill in the necessary information and send it. It varies a bit depending on the nature of the page (store, personal website, etc.) Sometimes people fix it, and sometimes they don't, but at the very least they'll have heard of Opera.
It has that lame autocomplete dropdown that happens when you start typing, but that's extra movement off the home typing position to the arrow keys. A waste of motion and it takes too long. (IE still has inline autocomplete--it's one of the first things I turn on when I customize a new PC.)
Hope they add in the inline autocomplete, because otherwise it's a nice browser.
It is false to say that each window being open in an SDI situation has to be another instance of the program running. One running process may be in control of multiple windows. This is how Netscape works, for example, which is why if one Netscape window locks up, they all get locked up. (unless you created the windows as seperate netscape launches instead of picking "file | New Window" off the menu to make the second window.)
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Opera 6.02 for Windows is missing support for bookmarklets. If you use bookmarklets, skip this release and go back to 6.0 or 6.01.
This is sad because while Opera never supported advanced DOM2 bookmarklets, it supported simpler bookmarklets better than other browsers. For example, clicking a bookmarklet in Opera would not cause the page to stop loading, and changes made by bookmarklets would not be lost after hitting the Back button like they are in other browsers.
Rant: first IE 6 doesn't support bookmarklets longer than 508 characters, and now Opera 6.02 doesn't support them at all. Recent versions of Mozilla have a bug where windows created by bookmarklets end up behind the current window (108394) and a bug that prevents the linked-images bookmarklet from working on porn sites (123293). I'm frustrated. Regressions suck.
The shareholder is always right.
Opera is neither free as in speech nor free as in beer.
Where are our favorite open source zealot insightful comments?
I use Opera. I downloaded the ad-containing version to start with and then, when I realized how k3w1 it was, I sent in the $30 they asked for. It's the fastest and smallest of the full-featured browsers, and that counts for a lot.
Actually, unless Opera gains some decent DOM support soon, its time is nearly up. After all, with Netscape 4's market share rapidly becoming insignificant, you'll start seeing a lot more client-side scripting and Opera will get left behind.
Come on, Konqueror's development is happening faster than Opera, it can't be that hard.
...or go to Netscape or Mozilla...
[sarcasm]Yep! We must do anything we can to avoid paying money to people who develop high quality software. When a company offers a good software product at a fair price, we have to immediately start looking for free alternatives.
Remember, if we all work together, we can drive small, innovative companies like the one that produces Opera out of business. If we really try hard, we might even be able to increase unemployment and drive down wages in the software engineering field![/sarcasm]
Under Windows, I finally switched from IE to Opera during 5.02, but the one feature they're really lacking is javascript popup management. If they'd just add the same support they have for cookies, it would be perfect.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
At least Opera is a program that actually inspired someone to self-improvement
m.mmm..myyy
... integrate well with Sun's StarOffice 6.0, which was also released today?
Instead of Alt-Shift-Click, hold down the right mouse button over the link and move the mouse downwards. Gestures rule. :)
All Glory To The Hypnotoad!
Am I satisfied?!
I am VERY satisfied.
The only problem is that I find myself doing that right-click-drag thing eveywhere else, whenever I want to get back. I do it without thinking three or four times in explorer (the file browser) before I realize that I'm not in Opera.
I say more programs should copy this feature.
You think the web begins and ends at the desktop.
It doesn't. A major piece of Opera's business is embedded space. That their embedded and desktop browsers share the same lightweight core is an enormous boast. Mozilla is too bloated in this respect. Part of the reason it's lightweight is because it doesn't attempt to kludge around the errors of browsers past. It's standards support still remains strong. The only thing seriously missing being DOM support, but DOM usage should be reserved for applications in a closed environment, not the public web in any case.
Opera clearly identifies itself in it's UA string, a knowledgable webmaster can easily deal with that. The UA spoofing is only there for the scarily large percentage of clueless webmasters....
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
For those of you itching to report bugs (yes, there still are some minor quirks), go on to opera.linux on usenet. There are Opera staff around to help you with problems, and accept bugreports. It's the best computing support I've ever got for free.
--
If you moderate this, then your children will be next.
I want to turn it on and off per site.
The way they allow you to allow and reject cookies per domain.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
The one feature of Opera that really won me over for Opera was when they implemented Quick Preferences in the File drop-down. This allows me to two click turn off Javascript, Java, Cookies, pop-ups, and identify as a different browser. Don't even have to open a dialog box. I can also two-click to my proxy account for my school.
This kind of feature is what endears the Opera programmers to me -- fast, cheap, and totally in control.
I am using it with ads.
Is this a sigs-optional kind of place? 'Cause I am totally down with that if you know what I mean.
>Of course I hear Opera (and the latest Konq) have tabbed browsing also.
Yes, and Mozilla also has got mouse gestures, another thing plagarized from Opera.
Btw, anyone want to bet against MSIE 7.0 having tabbed browsing and mouse gestures?
--
"I'm surfin the dead zone
In the twilight, unknown"
You know I would have believed this 2 years ago, but there is definitely a major push for cross platform usability of web interfaces now: I personally feel that there is less of an acceptance of just saying "Best viewed on IE 5.x" now than there was a couple of years ago. Why? Animosity to Microsoft has grown, and of course the W3C standards have vastly improved. Opera has committed to abiding by the DOM 2.x spec, and I'm sure that when it matters (it doesn't right now), they will support it. You can take any current product and talk about how it's doomed because it doesn't support some esoteric, unused feature that will be relevant in the future, but that presumes that the product that you're talking about is static and isn't progressing as well.
So many, indeed, that Mozilla is copying it. Imitation is the sincerist form of flattery.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
I've been using Opera on Linux since the early version 5's... and most recently was running the beta 6. People told me that the new Konqueror on KDE3 is the best so I've been trying that for a while... but I have to admit Opera is the best browser out there. I can handle paying $39 for it as I think it is worth it.
Konq, Mozilla, Netscape and Galleon just aren't as fast and do not render as perfectly as Opera.
You're Just Jealous Because The Voices Are Talking To Me.
Firstly, let me say that I think it's awesome the progress Mozilla is making (and it has dramatically improved in the past months). Having said that, many mozilla supporters hold it up as a better than Opera (with a previous post calling Opera "bloated", and then stating that they use Mozilla). Just as a quick test I ran Mozilla on Windows 2000 and loaded Slashdot : Memory usage = 23,304 KB. I then opened Opera and loaded Slashdot : Memory usage = 13467 KB. For mozilla I just installed the browser, whereas for Opera I did install the full package (I'm not sure if this is an optional thing. In other words I have the email client and newsgroup reader). This is hardly scientific, and as you browse both of them bloat up with cached handles and such, however it is interesting to see.
No, but talking about Opera coders, I saw something today:
/ Östergötlands län/... There you will find the ad. :)
Opera software is hiring C++ programmer, Linköping, Sweden
The page is in swedish and the link *might* not work for very long (ams.se frequently changes their links).
But if you live in Sweden and want to work for Opera (well, Hern labs), go to www.ams.se and then click Platsbanken/yrkesvis/Teknik|data/dataspecialister
--
"I'm surfin the dead zone
In the twilight, unknown"
Press "F11" to go to full screen, and presto, no ad banner!, also, no scroll bars! Just use the up and down arrow keys, and/or Page Up, Page Down. It gets the job done...btw, I am using Opera 6.0 for linux, just released today. Going to get 6.2 for Windows 98 after I reboot to that OS, but right now I am having a fine time with Opera and RHL 6.1!
Rapidweather's Linux Screenshots.
Opera is a very good browser, as far as the engine goes, but it comes up short where the interface is concerned.
If you have multiple tabs open, and close one, the next one made active is the one last opened. That means that the order can been terribly random. With Mozilla, you close one tab and it takes you to the next one to the left. Quite simple.
Opera's interface has always been bulky, and a bit weird. You have forward and back buttons on the main toolbar, but the stop button (was) only on the windows' toolbar.
Mozilla allows you to better customize javascript permissions, and don't even get me started on Opera's bookmark system (hotlist).
As far as I'm concerned, the only thing Opera has to offer that Mozilla hasn't, is the button to easilly toggle from 'Autor' to 'User' Mode. What this does is allow you on a per-window basis to easilly switch between the colors & fonts the page has defined, and the color/font you have defined. You'll appreciate this if you've ever visited a page with fonts so small you couldn't read them, or page colors that either blind you, or blend the fonts with the bacground so you can't really read it.
I realize that Mozilla eats up much more Memory and CPU power, but that's just something the needs to be gradually improved on. Even as it is, it's requirements fit my machines just fine.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
I used Opera and I turned pop-ups off. I was thrilled for some time. Then I went to play a Yahoo! game under it - it didn't work. I immediately concluded that there was some Microsoft-Yahoo! conspiracy. Although I am sure there is one, I was wrong in this case. I had to turn pop-ups back on under Opera in order for the game's script to run correctly. Lots of sites like to open up windows for you that are actually useful ones and not just advertisements.
Why does this sig rock so hard?
I've found that buying it removes the banner adds
Wow, I should not post when knackered.
I don't mean to offend anyone, this is all IMHO.
I'm using netscape 4.77-2 until I can visit all the sites I need (mapquest, and so on) in a web browser that runs in a framebuffer like zen or something. Everything else is trying to be like friggin emacs and add in a world of crap, or treat you like clippy and give you all this overly user friendly BS. It sucks enough to have to use X windows/netscape (and drain all kinds of resources, and run auto nice daemon to cope with it going crazy) just to have a descent browser that supports all these sites with javascript etc. I checked out mozilla and opera both, and guess friggin what? I know this comes as a crazy shock, but all I need is a full screen browser window, not fifty buttons and a logo and all that crap. KDE and gnome browsers may not be as bad, but they still require Xwindows on top of KDE or Gnome (I use neither), and blah blah blah.
Anyway.. I'm going to go listen to slayer and cool off. I'm not really mad, but I just think its pretty obvious that ALL of the graphical web browsers suck in some huge way or another. If they just sucked a little it would be okay but I'm talking big deep throat sucking. I'm going to go do something constructive now. Thank you.
I see people saying stuff like "Mozilla is bloated".
That cracks me up. How big is a Mozilla install? About 18mb. Please compare
that to Internet Explorer and yes Opera too, and I think you'll find it's favourable.
Slackware package created by checkinstall:
du -sh opera-6.0-20020510.1-static-qt.i386-pak.tgz
4.6M opera-6.0-20020510.1-static-qt.i386-pak.tgz
And that's the static, not the shared.
SealBeater
-- Its survival of the fittest...and we got the fucking guns!!!
...another thing plagarized from Opera...
:-)
;-)
Oh, dear...I suppose that choice of words is yet another way you can tell Opera isn't open-source.
So I assume Opera patented tabbed browsing then?
-=Maggie Leber=-
A page that reports what your browser is telling it, and what the page thinks is actually the case, is here Yes, it will detect Opera, even if Opera's masquerading as something else.
I ripped off^H^H^H^H^H re-used the code from elsewhere - leaving attribution in the source, then modified it a bit. If anyone knows a better bit of javascript to do this, I'd be interested.
Any relative novice who aspires to the title of Webmaster could do worse than having a look at the whole About This Site section, which deals with making pages browser-agnostic, fast to download, accessible to the visually impaired, and not reliant on plug-ins or even scripts. I'm the author BTW, and most certainly not an expert, or even good. Just better than the Frontpage scriptkiddies that masquerade as 31337 htmlasters. Anyone who can give me some more tips on how to improve the site, feel free to contact me.
Zoe Brain - Rocket Scientist
Of all the major browsers out there now, Opera has the worst DOM support. This is no secret and promising such a feature is rather useless seeing as you can't just bolt DOM support on, the engine has to be designed around it. Just look at the problems Netscape had.
I know that competition in the browser market is good, but what is not good is the fact that all browsers display and interpret things differently. If all browsers would go exactly for the standards (or interpret them the same way.. yes yes (; ), there would'nt be a problem with this, but if you try to develop something, you know what I mean. Its no fun at all. You have to check things for at least three different browsers. Some browsers doesnt support this e.g. CSS tag, some interpret it different.. its just weird. What I positively can see with Opera 6, that it now tries to show things as nearly the way Mozilla does, but some CSS stuff is still missing. For me Mozilla is still the choice, because it really shows things as you would expect it to do. Plus, Mozilla is open source and can be ported to nearly all platforms. A website designed for the Gecko engine looks the same everywhere, no matter what platform it runs on. Just as example, IE/mac and IE/win.. . And I cant reproduce that Opera renders faster than Mozilla, it just uses less memory. Thats all what I can see. When tested with some websites, Mozilla always renderd faster thatn Opera, and I use aa fonts in Mozilla, but not in Opera. Well, ok, just my 2. --dac
There used to be a shareware program called Sensiva that added gesture support to all windows programs, even allowing you to customize your own gestures. However, new Sensiva products seem to have become more and more bloated with all sorts of irrelevant features and are a lot more restrictive than the older versions :(
You are trolling. Denying it is not helping anyone.
....
Opera does NOT render pages better than konqueror. In fact opera does not even allow setting a background with CSS!
Konqueror does have fast switching of settings. Install the kdeaddons for additional menue entries, you can put any of them in the toolbar. You can choose a custom stylesheet("author mode")
Mouse gestures are being developed, so that might be valid, they are not ready yet.
Konqueror is MDI, SDI and split.
Konqueror has integrated search. Just type
gg:my search term
Or ggg: or ggl: Or hotbot: or rpm: or sf:
Moritz
I'm not saying that linux needs to rule the desktop, but saying you don't like the GUI is far diffrent from not wanting to learn how to configure it.
I honestly see linux as a programmers playground, and a server enviroment; it's fairly ill suited for most other tasks (though, I would'nt find it hard to set up a 'desktop' machine for an older person who wanted it anymore, I still don't think it's the best suited choice for that envirment)
I live in a giant bucket.
Obligatory browser-plugging comment: Dillo is free and very fast. It doesn't support frames or Javascript, but they suck anyway. I'm using it to read Slashdot and post this comment now (while pouring hot grits down my pants ;-)).
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
Well, they invented them... For web browser. I saw the first version shown to public. With a funny name, thats why I can't seek and find that page shows its screenshots. If anyone can, would be great.
It shows 4 windows in 1 main window showing different HTML pages. It was a "demo" only. From 1994...
...I assume Opera patented tabbed browsing then...
Nah, some Amiga browser (IBrowse I think) had tabbed browsing before. So, I guess Opera plagiarized it from them, in turn.
--
"I'm surfin the dead zone
In the twilight, unknown"
Opera 6.02 for Windows is incredibly stable. Try it if you run Windows.
Clever signature text goes here.
If you read the Opera newsgroups at news.opera.com, you will regularly see Opera developers give out pieces of information about their plans for future versions. At the same time as they are completely rewriting the rendering engine, they are also re-doing the mailer and newsreader from scratch.
Konqueror? It's only available for KDE users, while Opera is available on a number of different platforms. And it's growing.
Clever signature text goes here.
Opera are combining proper DOM support with a rewritten rendering engine with support for changing stuff dynamically after the page has been rendered. It looks like they are doing the right thing.
Clever signature text goes here.
Note that it doesn't actually let you remove parts of Opera, just disable them. But that doesn't matter. Opera's emailer, newsreader and IM client are all so tiny.
But anyway, how the heck can you talk about bloat when the full Opera download is about 3 MB, including everything?
YES! Of course you can. Haven't you even used Opera? You can access stuff from the View menu, and skinning and buttons can be set in Opera's preferences. The Opera Composer is only there to give you the option to change the defaults on install. It is primarily aimed at ISPs and other organizations that want to, say, replace the splash screen with their own and perhaps have a different bookmarks file. That is what the Opera composer is about. It doesn't to anything you couldn't do directly in Opera without downloading any extras.Again, the Opera Composer does not add anything, it lets you change the default install. I hope I've made myself clear :)
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Opera is about a 3 MB download including everything, while Mozilla is about 11. And you are actually suggesting that Opera is bloated? It just doesn't make sense.Clever signature text goes here.
Why do you think everyone wants to use Opera for embedded devices? Because Opera is tiny, so they can have the exact same core (as in displaying of web pages) on embedded devices as on desktop computers. While Pocket IE sacrifices a lot, Opera is basically the same core on all platforms!
Huh? What are you talking about? The Composer is an online service. The instant messaging client is included in the default install (but it's been disabled by default since AOL keep blocking them - it can be enabled in Opera's "Programs and paths" preferences). Yes, Mozilla is physically big, both the downloaded package and the installed package.Opera, on the other hand is about a 3 MB download, and when installed it takes up about 4 MB (before you start getting cached items, download mail and files, add plugins etc.). But Opera itself is very small compared to Mozilla.
Clever signature text goes here.
On the other hand, you can disable automatic RAM caching and set fixed values in Opera. This way, you can force it to use less RAM. Or more if you insist :)
Clever signature text goes here.
Good: Opera 6.02 is small and fast.
Bad: Opera 6.02 STILL can't remember my slashdot cookies.
[o]_O
The time it takes to scroll to the bottom is proportional with font size (the accumulated height of the page) and line increment assigned to arrow down.
So that test doesn't really show anything besides perhaps a little bit of ignorance on your part ;-)
Is there any actual evidence of this? You can't just magic up a new rendering engine on a whim.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1103_10160178 25%40axelsiebert.de
Clever signature text goes here.
And where is the stated level of support? For example, will it support getComputedStyle? So far, Mozilla is the *only* browser to support that, despite the fact that it's actually quite useful.
Don't ask me. I'm just telling you where I got this information from.
Clever signature text goes here.