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Apple Updates iBook
micq writes "After the PowerBook was updated with a faster processor at the end of April, the iBook was sure to follow. Apple announced today that the popular iBook line has been updated, upping it to a 700MHz G3. It's good to see they're still keeping the 12.1" models, which are of the few remaining small screen, ultra-portables..." They've also improved the video card to an ATI Mobility Radeon. Prices range from $1500 to $1800 for the 700MHz model (12" and 14"), and there's a 12"/600MHz model for $1200.
If you want optimum performance form an Apple notebook, you need to buy the Powerbook. That is the point of the Powerbook, it is a better machine. The iBook is great of email, internet, and basic office type functions, if you want good graphics, and gaming possibilities, the iBook is not the one.
The price on the low voltage parts is still prohibitive. IBM manufactures the processors for Motorola, and they charge about $550 for the 800MHz part, $900 for the 933MHz part, and $1200 for the 1GHz part. A startling percentage of the cost of any mac is the processor. The desktop versions of these processors run at slightly less than half this cost.
The G3 processors are the only processors below the magic $200 price point, and that's why these will continue to be used in iBooks and iMacs.
You can thank IBM who, incidentally, push a laptop of their own.
The G3 is a nice, lower-power chip at a decent speed. It's probably a better choice for an ultraportable than the G4 would be. And with the upgrade to a Radeon, it's now capable of taking advantage of Quartz Extreme (though not optimized, it now meets the spec). 700 MHz is a respectable speedbump - which we all knew would come soon after the PBG4 was bumped to 800 MHz. Personally, the only thing I'd like to see is the ability to support a little higher res (maybe 1152x870 or something like it) on the 14" model, but it's a nice upgrade anyways.
A lot of folks squawk about the iBook's lacking a Cardbus slot, but I don't see it as a problem. The most common additions you'll see via Cardbus are Ethernet, modems, and wireless cards - these already have 'em, plus a Firewire port as well.
This makes a heck of a nice little reasonably-priced Unix box, really. I've owned both the old toilet seat model and the newer iceBook model, and they're darn near bulletproof.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Something that should help the revised iBook's speed beyond the 100MHz speed boost is the doubling of it's L2 cache to 512K from it's previous 256K.
The G3 processors are the only processors below the magic $200 price point, and that's why these will continue to be used in iBooks and iMacs.
;-)
Somebody's going to nail you on this one, I'm afraid. I just wanted to do it gently.
Both the iMac and the new eMac have G4 processors. You're absolutely right about the G3 price point, of course, but I'm afraid you're wrong about the iMac.
Can anyone verify any of this?
Says the RIAA: When you EQ, you're stealing bass!
This is a really bad move they should focus on upping the speed on their G4 chips and dicontinue the G3 all together.
This statement is a great illustration of what I think is the biggest fallacy in the computing industry right now: that speed is everything.
The consumer mentality really comes through. You've been taught to believe that you should always buy the best/fastest/coolest/most expensive thing on the market. If there's something better/faster/whatever than what you've got, then you suck!
I really don't care how fast my iBook is, as long as it's fast enough. I use it for email and web browsing, and it's fast enough for that. I also use it for basic office-type tasks, like light word processing and page layout, and it doesn't need a G4 for that. I also use it to run Project Builder, and it certainly doesn't need a G4 for that.
The extra megahertz are nice and all-- if I could trade my 500 MHz iBook for a 700 MHz one, I would, as long as I could keep my 12-inch form factor. But I wouldn't be willing to pay any more for it, or deal with any more size, weight, or heat. I'm definitely not going to be trading in until there's something that I want or need to do with my iBook that I can't accomplish without newer hardware.
Besides, this megahertz space-race is really bad for the industry as a whole. I certainly don't shop for CPUs very often, but I'd be surprised if you could buy a new 500 MHz Pentium any more. Which is a shame, because if you could, they'd probably cost about $10. But instead, you have to get a 1.5 GHz monster or something, even if it's just going to be a router or email host. Yeah, yeah, Intel (or whoever) is in it to make money, and margins are higher on top-of-the-line parts. Oh, well.
until today the ibook had 8MB VRAM, i don't see them jumping right up to 32MB when that's what the TiBook is shipping with right now. i agree, iw ould like to see the ibook optimized to take full advantage of all aspects of 10.2, but hey. i do not know how much of an issue it will really be, all reports of people installing the developer version of 10.2 (with lots of begugging stuff added) on 600mghz ibooks said it was way faster than the 10.1.4 they had been running. it wqould have been nice tto start the lower ones with a lil more than 128 megs of ram though. yes, it's cheap and easy to upgrade yourself, but it's the point.
over all i think it's a pretty good upgrade. nothing shocking, but nobody really expected that.
I really like these devices and want to try them. But I need Debian Woody on it. So had anybody already tried one of the new IBooks with Woody? Are there any special components (like soundcard) or ports (like usb) which don't work at the moment?
Actually, Apple still makes/sells the original CRT iMac which still uses the G3 processor. Go to the Apple store and look for yourself.
Which is just as irrelevant, as the G3 they're using now has double the L2 cache as their last G3, which is at least one architectural improvement. I wouldn't be surprised if this were IBM's Sahara chip...
But we'll see.
GPL Deconstructed
If only I had the money for one of these I would probably buy the lowest spec or perhaps a new iMac? :D~
It will NOT require 32Mb of video memory - 32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance. (see bottom of page)
I can't find any information about the processor. Is this the PowerPC 750FX ("Sahara")? The specs page doesn't provide more detailed informations :/
As long as it's a Radeon, on Apple's OS X page:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/newversion/
Near the bottom in grey.
Anyway, you're saying the small form factor, the reasonable price, the excellent battery life, the full complement of ports and features, the Unixy OS, *and* it's future OS update isn't enough for you?
Man, what do you want then?
GPL Deconstructed
Is it not possible that 32mb of VRAM would be entirely wasted on a system capable of no greater than 1024x768 resolution, even with Quartz Extreme?
True, the iMac has the same resolution and 32MB VRAM, but I would assume that's mainly for gaming; I would not expect gaming to be a priority for iBook users.
I remember when upgrading my beige PowerMac G3 to 6mb VRAM gave me all the VRAM I thought we'd ever need. I'm going to guess that even with Quartz Extreme, 16MB would be ample at the resolutions iBooks run at.
Otherwise, you'd need tons more VRAM if you ran a Cinema Display or Cinema HD Display, and I see nothing to that effect in the specifications.
Of course if I'm wrong, I'd welcome corrections.
D
He obviously confused mobile and desktop processor prices. I don't have any figures myself, but if the G4/800 is $550 in the laptop version, it's $225 in the desktop version (per his statement that desktops are about half the price). So the desktop G4/800 just squeezes itself into viability here, with its presence in the top iMac.
If his prices are accurate - and they seem to be, in view of what Apple charges for the finished products - it's pretty obvious that we won't see G4 iBooks any time soon, regardless of how much Steve wants to get rid of the moldy old thing.
D
Aw, damn. So you can only buy an iBook (THE CONSUMER LEVER LAPTOP) with a G3. But wait! You could buy a TiBook - and hey! That has a G4!
But I guess that only has one cpu in it, and not 2 [sigh].
Quit whining. It turns out that a G3 at 700 Mhz is plenty enough to run OSX. If you're planning on playing games -- maybe not (if they're hardcore 3D, anyway).
But I'm sitting here doing Dev work on mine, and it is FINE. If I had any complaint, it'd be the disk speed - but it can't be all that bad, or I'd have upgraded it myself by now. I do wish I could find a ramdisk for OSX, though. That'd suite me fine.
OK, you assholes, one last time-- try to get this one simple fact through your thick Steve-washed braincases:
MAC OS 10.2 DOES not REQUIRE 32 MEGS OF VIDEO MEMORY TO USE QUARTZ EXTREME.
Every time there's new Apple hardware released, or some new rumor or tidbit regarding Mac OS 10.2, AKA Jaguar, there always seems to be at least one idiot who posts something uninformed yet totally rude and arrogant like "ah, [new hardware], outdated before it's even released." This makes my blood boil.
So what is it that you people think exactly? That upon installing Mac OS 10.2 on, say, a Power Mac G3/450 it'll reboot into VGA text mode with a blinking text message "PLEASE UPGRADE VIDEO HARDWARE: INSUFFICIENT RAM TO DISPLAY MAC OS X?" Come on people, please. We know Apple's playing the "planned obsolescence" game now but that's a bit fucking ridiculous.
If there's not 16 megs of RAM, regular Quartz will run. If there's 16 megs of RAM, Quartz Extreme will run. And if there's more than 16 megs of RAM, it'll run really nice. GET THIS THROUGH YOUR FUCKING SKULLS . Mac OS 10.2 will run on any system that Mac OS 10.1 will run on. Jesus fucking Christ, I run 10.1 on my stock Power Mac 8600/300 with no video card!!! You people really need to wake up.
To said idiots, morons, and imbeciles (which the Mac world seems full of nowadays, thanks to the Apple's fruit campaign bringing over loads of PC lusers), I'd like to shout a resounding FUCK YOU and link you to Apple's Mac OS 10.2 spec page so that, on the off chance that you can read, you'll see that Quartz Extreme doesn't require 32 megs of RAM, it just prefers it over 16 megs of RAM (which is the actual base requirement).
I hope this little rant helped get the message across about Mac OS 10.2's actual graphics requirements. I need to go lay down before I have some sort of blowout. I can feel my heart pounding in my head at 180bpm.
Quit whining. It turns out that a G3 at 700 Mhz is plenty enough to run OSX. If you're planning on playing games -- maybe not (if they're hardcore 3D, anyway).
Quake and Quake II (see Fruits of Dojo for a port to OSX) run just fine under OSX. Unreal and Unreal Tournament run just fine under OS9. Starcraft runs great on both.
I'll agree about its disk speed. Its developers tools are kick-arse, and are fairly easy to learn. I'm still trying to leard ObjC.
Oh, my computer is a 2001 iBook Combo/600mhz.
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
Which is a shame, because if you could, they'd probably cost about $10. But instead, you have to get a 1.5 GHz monster or something, even if it's just going to be a router or email host.
I agree. But you can still get a Celeron 500/533 for $65CDN at Techtronics in Saskatoon.
The other problem is that you can't move your 500 mhz Celery to a 700mhz model. You need a new motherboard because the parts aren't available.
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
You'd be surprised how much mileage you can get out of a processor. For most of my uses, my Thinkpad 365 (486DX75, 24 Mb RAM) running AbiWord, etc... does most of what I need to do (really!), and I find that when I need real firepower, I just jump on my desktop G4 system.
A speedier iBook would be nice, but really, do you need it? I say just remove software that wastes processor cycles (read: MS). How many people (me included) really utilize their G4's?
The new iBook runs up to 35 percent faster than previous models in CPU performance tests such as encoding a song from an audio CD into an MP3 file using iTunes(TM). iBook also now features a new video-out port that supports VGA output, as well as S-video and composite video with optional adapter.
Quite a little performer. The G3 has some life in it yet. Check out IBM's spec sheet on the PowerPC 750FX Microprocessor.
blakespot
-- Heisenberg may have slept here.
iPod Hacks.com
I wish they did make a G4 iBook. I'm not trading in my aging Lombard in exchange for a machine with weak hinges and crappy paint.
I love the specs on the Powerbook. But I won't give up my durability (Sort of necessity in a portable machine.)
vi ~/.emacs
It's a shame, because it really is a nice piece of hardware - great battery life, compact size and lightweight. But it's SLOW. For OS X, you really need a fast (and apparently Altivec enhanced) CPU, and the iBook just isn't it.
Just want to point out that you need not buy a top of the line Wintel to get good graphics and gaming possibilities. Even the bottom end ones run everything quite nicely these days.
I know everyone says the Megahertz gap is a myth, but the fact is, it's very real - Apple's low end machine is slow running OS X, while a low end Wintel is fast running Windows 2000.
That doesn't make the iBook a bad computer (it certainly has some strengths) but potential buyers should be aware that OS X on a iBook 600 feels like Windows 2000 on a PII 266.
If that's okay with you, fine. Whatever floats your boat. But you should know prior to buying.
It will have support for hardware accelerated Quartz as well as an extra 100MHz on the olde iBooks.
GPL Deconstructed
If I understand correctly, Quartz Extreme will be an OPTION, meaning that the beige G3's won't run any slower than they do now, and this could only help higher end systems.
Also, my friend had a chance to talk to one of the Mac Geniuses, and he said he had 10.2 running on his wallstreet, and it was much faster and snappier than 10.1.4. The way I understand it, what kind of Graphics Card (Radeon) would be more important than the amount of VRAM.
> Unfortunately, I have almost no hope. Apple has demonstrated for more than 10 years that they do not care about unix users, and they will not address their concerns [google.com]. I sincerely hope that they change their ways, and start to care. The fact that they now have a very-high quality unix OS gives me hope that they might start to care about unix users.
t e. html
Apple do care about Unix users. In fact, if you listen to Steve Jobs, Avi Tevanian, or Phil Shiller, you would know that they take great pride in the fact that OS X has already become the single largest Unix platform since its first release just over a year ago.
According to Tim O'Reilly
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/19/invi
alpha geeks simply love Mac OS X because they get the best of both worlds without the hassle of dual-boot - a fully functional Unix system to hack around and an amazingly rich collection of applications for home and office. To further prove his point, O'Really stated
"Almost all of the Perl 6 core team has switched to Mac OS X, as have many of the top Java and XML developers. Developers in new fields like bioinformatics and peer-to-peer networking are also climbing on board."
and apparently, James Gosling (co-inventor of Java) from Sun uses OS X on a TiBook.
The keyboard is might be valid point for you personally, but it doesn't seem to bother others. I myself is a Unix developer for many years, but never noticed any inconvenience with any Apple keyboard, and my PC keyboard is similar to the iBook's.
My iBook is much slower than the latest with only a 500 MHz G3 and 66 MHz bus, but I love it and use it for almost everything I do, because it's light, beautiful, quiet, faster than my 600 MHz PC. Most importantly, it has never crashed since I got it nearly a year ago, and I normally leave all applications (a dozen or more) running in the background for weeks and never shut down the system unless necessary.
In contrast, my 600 MHz PC running Win XP is only used to run IE and Outlook, and is hybernated or shut down daily because it's too noisy, but it typically crashes once every 2 days or so. The crash is the most destructive I have ever seen - it simply restarts with a black screen and disk checking followed by a half screenful of text messages that only Bill Gates cares to read - no warning - no time to save anything.
So if the keyboard is the only issue for you, consider that as a blessing and go get yourself a iBook now and you will enjoy it.
Is there anything perfect in this world?
Why didn't this make the frontpage? There are a lot of people buying iBooks to run various flavors of BSD, Linux, and obviously Mac OS X on that are coming from Slashdot's target audience. Any story related to the iBook should obviously hit the frontpage.
mbbac
Dude, who peed in your coffee?
I have an iBook 600, and an iBook DVD SE 466, which I have handed down to my wife. Mac OS X is quite usable on both of them... at least as usable as Windows 2000 on the Pentium III 500 Dell that I used to own (sold it to buy the iBook).
I get around the same encoding rate (3x-4x) with LAME that I got on my Pentium III, I get around the same frame rate in Quake II, and Mozilla renders slashdot at about the same speed.
The most important factor in getting OS X to a usable performance level in my experience is the amount of RAM... both of the iBooks have more than 128MB of memory, the 466 has...
So according to my own (admittedly anecdotal) experience, you're full of shit... Mac OS X is very usable on an iBook 600. True, it would be even more usable on a dual 1Ghz G4 with 1.5Gb of RAM... but then again, so would everything else... and I can't fit one of those in my backpack :)
I couldn't agree more!
...till then I'll stick with two Macs!
I for one, am going to downgrade my laptop! (So, shoot me for doing that!) But I am for real. I have a nice Titanium PowerBook at the moment, but I have noticed that all I use it for (on the road) is for eMails & Web browsing, maybe some doc writing from time to time. Why the h*ll (pardon my French) am I carrying around such an expencive piece of hardware?
Well, I am a sucker too, that's why. What I also noticed, was that when I DO need power, is when I'm at home. So, now I'm downgrading my Titanium to cheap used iBook, while buying a low-end G4 desktop for home. And I can do all this with the price I get from my Titanium!
OK, I admit! It would be nice if the Titanium would have double the power, double the screen, quadruple the hard drive, plus a lot more. But I don't want to shed any more Euros for that...
If all else fails, pull the plug and get out...
The Life is out there...
Granted, the CPU is a G3, but apple can do better than a 100 Mhz FSB.