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Codingstyle Interviews PS2 Linux Developers

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the get-your-haxx0r-on dept.

Linux Freak writes "May 22 marks the official release of Sony's PS2 Linux kit in North America and Europe! To give you something to do while waiting for your package to arrive in the mail, Codingstyle has conducted an interview with several people in the PS2 development community, including two people from Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc. (SCEA) and Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, Ltd. (SCEE), as well as official kit and PS2DEV hobbyists."

36 of 114 comments (clear)

  1. It's Wednesday by rossz · · Score: 5, Funny

    So today, Sony is not evil. Tomorrow they will be evil again.

    --
    -- Will program for bandwidth
    1. Re:It's Wednesday by GeorgeH · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I know this is Slashdot, but can't we just once get a movie/music/video game story where someone doesn't post this? Can't we once get the idea that not everything in life is black and white, that video games can be fun and hacking on the consoles is really geeky even if Sony supports the DMCA or whatever "our" gripe with them is.

      Maybe I'm just naturally wary of people who force issues into "them" and "us" statements... but if that were true what would I be doing here on /.?

      --
      Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
    2. Re:It's Wednesday by gmarceau · · Score: 2, Insightful
      1. There is no slashdot

        The audience of slashdot is composed of a fairly wide range of opinionated individual. Even thought each reader probably have a mostly consistent point of view, the slashdot pool as a whole as little chances to be.

      2. Sony's hardware and music departments are mostly independent from each other - and often at odd.

        I'm sure Sony Music isn't too happy Sony Hardware is selling consumer grade cd duplicators.

      --
      This post was compiled with `% gec -O`. email me if you need the sources
    3. Re:It's Wednesday by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 2
      I think that the reason is that the editors are extremely critical, paranoid, and alarmist when it comes to DMCA and anything related ... and yet, by drooling over anything that comes from these companies, they prove that they really don't care all that much. Many people look at Slashdot to see what the tech community thinks of things -- and what they see by looking at the front page is that we're all talk.


      If /. wasn't so prominent, or if it was only in the comments, I don't think it would matter much. As it is, however, they deserve to be called on it as often as it comes up.

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
  2. Interesting by RTFA+Man · · Score: 2, Informative
    While this interview primarily focused on development using the PS2 Linux kit, the official kit isn't the only way that hobbyists can involve themselves with the PS2.

    Another method involves coding directly for the PS2 itself. This is known as PS2DEV. PS2DEV has become the keyword on the Internet to identify the home brew development community.

    These are people that use open source, GPL & free software to develop programs for their vanilla PS2. PS2DEV is concerned with building the community and tools to make it easier for anyone to get started programming their PS2.

    1. Re:Interesting by Slynkie · · Score: 3, Informative

      Seems like that's not exactly true, there are legal (NON-hardware) workarounds to do raw PS2 development...

      At least, that's what this FAQ seems to indicate.

    2. Re:Interesting by zaffir · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of course they violate the DMCA. Sony just hasn't deemed them worthy of their giant lawsuit hammer.

      --
      "Upon attaching the waterblock to my penis, I began to notice that I know nothing about computers." -- JRockway
    3. Re:Interesting by Knoxvill3 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Uhh, this guy got a score of 2: informative for copying what the website says in verbatim?! Bad Moderators, See for yourselves, 2nd paragraph on the page. ( Hint: "While this interview primarily focuses on...")

      --
      ======
      Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. - Euripides
    4. Re:Interesting by Space+cowboy · · Score: 2

      >
      > Sony did not yet sue any vendor over modchips
      >

      They have in the UK...

      --
      Physicists get Hadrons!
  3. Coding style's idea of style: by jemele · · Score: 2, Funny
    Warning: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2) in /home/codingstyle/www/pnadodb/adodb-mysql.inc.p hp on line 105 Warning: MySQL Connection Failed: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2) in /home/codingstyle/www/pnadodb/adodb-mysql.inc.p hp on line 105 Error connecting to dbcodingstyle Program: /home/codingstyle/www/mainfile2.php - Line N.: 82 Database: codingstyle Error (2002) :

    Tee hee hee. Robust, eh?

    1. Re:Coding style's idea of style: by Misha · · Score: 2

      using mysql for coding style irony is so passe! nowadays you need it to be non-transactional AND a memory hog to earn any real funny karma on slashdot. if it's insecure, you get a +1 Insightful bonus.

      i've been style-free since 1980. just ask my girlfriend.

      disclaimer: read between the sarcasm, i am not flaming.

      --



      I was thinking of how to intentionally fail my drug test... It would make a good memoir story someday.
    2. Re:Coding style's idea of style: by iomud · · Score: 2

      using adodb for mysql is almost funnier, if they have abstracted code why not use a more robust db?

    3. Re:Coding style's idea of style: by Linux+Freak · · Score: 2

      If my web hoster provided PostgreSQL, that would be my DB of choice. But they don't, so it's MySQL. :(

      http://codingstyle.com/interviews/sonyps2-20020522 . tml is a static page of the interview.

      Hopefully the site itself stays up. ;-)

  4. Still Cannot Create Your Own Games by Ho+Kooshy+Fly · · Score: 2, Informative

    This kit is all well and nice, but since Sony's copy protection exists for their custom DVDs it is all but impossible to play created games in normal systems. Obviously Sony wants to make money from the kits but what they really want is to make money for their games. Undoubtedly, they must feel that they lose more money from no copy protection than from more developers. Whether or not this is the case (it is probably is true), maybe a method for reading special DVD's for non corporate content should have been thought of. Oh well. Ho Kooshy Fly

    1. Re:Still Cannot Create Your Own Games by Steveftoth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The point of this kit it to let the normal person access the hardware of the ps2 so that they can write their own game. You don't need to be able to read the dvd-rom/cd drive to do that. Yeah, I agree that it kinda sucks, but they are not selling you a general purpose PC, they are selling a games machine. If you are really hc, then you can write a game using the linux kit and then take it to a publisher, maybe it will get picked up. Maybe you'll be able to get a job, who knows.
      I pirated games for the PS one, I had a chip-mod, but I still bought games when I knew they were good. They don't want a large underground group releasing non-sony licensed games.

    2. Re:Still Cannot Create Your Own Games by Joe+Tie. · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'd bet that the users who still codes for the DC is the same one that Sony is trying to reach with the Linux kit.

      I've been slowly moving along writing a little rpg for the dreamcast for a while now, and at first I was really interested in the ps2 linux. Heck, I was planning on buying a ps2 just for that fact. What killed any interest for me is the inability to actually share your work with others. Of my friends, only one actually likes video games. I somehow doubt she'd fork out the $200 it'd take to allow her to play mine, and unfourtunatly playing single player video rpgs as a group isn't very entertaining. So what's left is the fun of sharing your creation over the internet. For me much of the point of writing games is to get feedback, find out what people like and don't like, and know that people are enjoying your work. With the ps2 linux the audience is so small as to be pointless to me.

      As much as I see why they did it, since allowing someone to boot off a linux cd to a game included on it would have probaly led rather quickly to quite a bit of piracy, untill it is possible to have someone actually 'play' a game I code without buying the linux kit first I'm sticking with the good ol' dreamcast.

      --
      Everything will be taken away from you.
  5. Here's a mirror by Mr.+Spock · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've put up a mirror on playstation2-linux.com. You may also want to check out the official site which is, of course, http://playstation2-linux.com

  6. not to be an asshole but... by DanThe1Man · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Could someone explain the point of this exersise, except for the hack value. I don't want to be flamebait or a troll, but why would someone want linux on a low resulation TV monitor? You could use a regular monitor, but if you have a regular monitor, you probably already have a computer to partion and put linux on.

    1. Re:not to be an asshole but... by NETHED · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Good question, but its probbably the same reason we see Linux going into toasters and such.

      why do you climb the mountain, because its there. Probbably the same reason people use Linux on a PS2, just to see if they can, and what they can do with it.

      --
      --sig fault--
    2. Re:not to be an asshole but... by Mr.+Spock · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What do you mean "except for the hack value"? The hack value here is extreme! However, that's not the only point. What you get with Linux (for Playstation 2) is system manuals for previously secret playstation 2 hardware components, and an interface to write code for them. Sony is releasing a lot of software and documentation that was previously only available to licensed developers. If you have an interest in developing console games/applications, the kit can really jumpstart your knowledge and experience.

    3. Re:not to be an asshole but... by psavo · · Score: 2

      Could someone explain the point of this exersise, except for the hack value.

      Simple. Vexed.

      --
      fucktard is a tenderhearted description
    4. Re:not to be an asshole but... by inkfox · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Could someone explain the point of this exersise, except for the hack value.
      I make video games for a living. I'm a lead programmer, and I make hiring decisions.

      If you wrote a decent PS2 Linux game on your own, I'd hire you in a heartbeat, even if you had no industry experience.

      How's that?

      --
      Says the RIAA: When you EQ, you're stealing bass!
    5. Re:not to be an asshole but... by jeffehobbs · · Score: 2

      Watch out, X-Box! VEXED is coming your way!

      After trying it out, I can't really imagine this game would gain anything being ported to the PS2 - not that it would lose anything, either, but wouldn't it be better if some more interesting game concepts came out of the open source community, rather than just shoddy knock offs of existing puzzle games?

      ~jeff

    6. Re:not to be an asshole but... by inkfox · · Score: 3, Informative
      What would be the advantage of writing PS2 Linux game vs. a DirectX or OpenGL PC game as far as your hiring decision is concerned?
      The benefits would be your having experience with the quirks of the hardware, and experience programming within a limited environment. Most applicants who have only had PC experience assume infinite resources and scads of pre-written libraries. Console code needs to be fairly lean, generally needs to bang on the hardware directly to get the best results, and generally doesn't rely on heaps of pre-written libraries.

      Looking at your code, I can also determine whether you really understand the implications of the code you're writing. It's one thing when code is meant to be general-purpose, relying on the OS to translate everything into the most efficient formats. It's another when I can assume you should have had every opportunity to pick the right data formats and algorithms that work most efficiently on the given hardware.

      On top of all that, the fact that you were interested enough to get a kit such as this one and make a game on your own speaks volumes about your dedication to game programming, and it takes dedicated people to make good games.

      --
      Says the RIAA: When you EQ, you're stealing bass!
    7. Re:not to be an asshole but... by HeUnique · · Score: 2

      Hmm...

      1. Very limited memory (32MB)..
      2. Straight-to-the-bones programming - DirectX is a layer (which you're protected from crashing - well, many times).
      3. Non X86 world...
      4. Non MS world compiler tricks and optimizations...

      The list goes on...

      --
      Hetz (Heunique)
  7. Re:Homebrew, MAME, etc.. by swright · · Score: 2

    IIRC the linux kit comes with an Ethernet adaptor, and in the interview they talked about mounting network shares - there should be no reason why playing over the network shouldn't work. They also say they are expecting some media players..

    All sounds good to me :))

  8. Re:slashdotted by Linux+Freak · · Score: 2

    Heh...it's being Slashdotted alright. :-)

    I put a static page up: http://codingstyle.com/interviews/sonyps2-20020522 . tml

    Sorry about that. :^)

  9. Interesting interview... by b0r0din · · Score: 3, Funny

    "How much do you program on the PS2 kit?"

    Interviewee #1: Umm, not much.
    Interviewee #2: Umm, not much. My dog ate my development notes.
    Interviewee #3: I'd program more, but umm, not much. See I met this real non-plastic girl and we [censored- see alt.furries.erotica]
    Interviewee #4: I program a lot except on the PS2. Can I talk about how uninteresting my job at [insert acronym] is?
    Interviewee #5: I was just explaining how the RISC chip architecture worked when you interrupted me. Oh yes, what was the question? Oh yeah...umm, not much.
    Interviewee #6: I'm too busy trying to get to the next level of GTA3 to actually code on it. Is that what that beta thingy I received in the mail was for?
    Interviewee #7: (aptly named Sporkhead): Cool! My PS2 says 'Hello, World'!

  10. Finally! by DrCode · · Score: 2

    I often browse the employment ads on Gamasutra, and see jobs requiring x years of PS/2 development experience, wondering how one can ever get experience on such a closed platform.

  11. Re:Homebrew, MAME, etc.. by smart.id · · Score: 2, Informative

    There are ports of MAME and other arcade emulators for the Dreamcast. Dreamcast can also read CD-Rs, and Dreamcast is $150 dollars cheaper than a PS2, and you don't need to pay more money for a hard drive or a Linux kit.

    There are also lots of ways to code for the Dreamcast. (Windows CE, KOS)

    Dreamcast also has VGA output in its own display output, therefore no other device is required to convert from NTSC/PAL to VGA. For more information: dcemulation.com

    --
    blog & fiction: jd87
  12. Sony notification email by lucaschan.com · · Score: 4, Funny

    Heh, for those of you that didn't sign up to recieve email notification when the Linux PS2 kit was released, you're definitely missing out.

    Sony mis-configured the mailing list so that when people replied their messages went to everyone else that signed up for notification.

    There is currently some very dodgy porn being sent out to everyone via email, including some poor guy who's trying to buy the Linux kit for his son.

    Definitely made my morning. Thanks Sony. =)

  13. The most important bit of information.... by Cryptnotic · · Score: 4, Interesting
    ...on that page actually wasn't part of the article. It was a comment by "mrbrown".

    One of the most surprising features about the kit is how the Linux kernel is loaded into RAM and executed: the kernel ELF file (a common executable format that's also used on the PS2) is stored to the memory card, and the PS2/Linux bootloader loads it into RAM and executes it. However Sony allows you to place _any_ ELF executable on the memory card to be loaded. This means that any native PS2 program, even those written by PS2DEV enthusiasts, can be loaded without a swap trick or modchip. This is how the NetBSD and eCos teams were able to port their respective operating systems to the PS2.

    Because of this, the number of uses for the kit are actually limitless as long as the boot CD doesn't put the PS2 into some "limited" mode. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

    --
    My other first post is car post.
    1. Re:The most important bit of information.... by Cryptnotic · · Score: 2

      That's not really the point either. The kit doesn't require you to use Linux. The boot disc they provide will execute any code that is stored on the memory card. It should even be relatively easy to set up a PC or another device as a "memory card emulator", so you could load program data onto the memory card and have the boot disc execute that program instead of a Linux kernel.

      Linux is useful in that it provides a lot of features such as memory allocation, multiple processes/threads, networking, filesystem access, interprocess communication, etc. And there are also thousands of free programs for Linux that you can recompile to run on any Linux system.

      But, of course, you don't have to use it if you don't want to. You can always reinvent the wheel if you want it to be a different shape.

      --
      My other first post is car post.
  14. Re:It's about time... by Cryptnotic · · Score: 2

    There was no PS/2 model 56. There was a Model 50 and a Model 60, but no Model 56.

    --
    My other first post is car post.
  15. Anyone got 802.11b working on this? by mccalli · · Score: 2
    I'm -really- interested in getting this kit and putting a wireless ethernet adaptor on it. Uses would be none too sophisticated - MAME and MP3 playing really.

    All falls apart if I can't connect it to a wireless ethernet router. So...anyone done it?

    Cheers,
    Ian

  16. Re:It's about time... by Cryptnotic · · Score: 2

    Okay, I have been corrected. Someone mod my other post down for being wrong.

    --
    My other first post is car post.