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Open Source 3D Hardware
An anonymous submitter writes: "Open Source haven icculus.org has updated with a new project: Manticore. Different from most Open Source projects however, Manticore is hardware. It is a 3D graphics acceleration design, coded in VHDL. Although still fairly early in development, its goals are similar to those of other 3D cores, from companies like NVIDIA and ATI. The project includes an SDRAM controller for storage, and a VGA unit for display, in addition to the 3D rendering core. It is available under the Design Science License. Source, Documentation and other information available at the Manticore Homepage."
...but to actually make the dang thing won't they need a million-dollar chip fab or something?
...you are a THIEF if you use open source hardware!!
Microsoft needs your money! Now!
Why dont they put it on Open Cores?
Thats where all open hardware projects are.
Mouse powered Chips, Open source Processors and Lego
Than the bitboys!
:-)
Belief is the currency of delusion.
if they ditched the VGA it would be better
simply because you would not have to add all that redundant crap into the hardware
I dont care much for VGA other people do because they are lazy or cant modify their source code (-;
(even MS will be ditching VGA for longhorn)
regards
john jones
SLOW, impractical.. and good luck making it :)
Couldn't they just wack up something using a FPGA ? Surely for things like mid-range performance there are sufficiently dense FPGA's which can be coded up with [at the very least] basic 3D primatives (At least for testing).
...
Else we could go for a million LEGO Mindstorms.
though i havent followed its progress, i remember a similar effort in the area of cpus, project f-cpu.
yours or His?
who shall remain nameless from thus forth
I very much doubt that.
So much to do, so little bandwidth.
--
Try Mozilla
Peculiar numbers. This gives a small maximum resolution of 1024x1024, but really rather excessive accuracy. We don't really need 1/64 pixel accuracy do we?
what would really rock, is if they gave us all the details (equipment etc) that we could order off there site, to actually build the card.
i may know asmuch about electronics as most people know about nuclear physics, but that would be quite cool if you ask me, is it even remotely possible?
Microsoft IIS is to webserving as KFC is to healthy eating
But ... doesn't it cost money for an implementation to be tested for OpenGL compliance? Like mesa is an open source software implementation of opengl, and probably satisfies all the tests. But it ain't certified as compliant because a) nobody's coughed up the cash and b) probably past interests in not having an open source implementation back then (though opengl is fully open sourced now). Think of how JBoss had a hell of a time getting Sun to admit JBoss was even halfway J2EE compliant...
It's an interesting project but drivers guys, put some thought into the drivers...
Now all we need to do is get a computer to emulate the graphics card, hook it up to an open slot in another computer, and write a linux driver for it. Then we, too, can experience the joy of playing Quake 3 through Wine at a resolution of 200 X 180 at 10 FPS.
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
What would say is the abomination in that text?
So much to do, so little bandwidth.
--
Try Mozilla
Are we sure Manticore is not a genetic engineering project?
The success of open source is that it is easy for the masses to get access to the "products". This would not be the case with an open source hardware project.
Unfortuantely, I suspect this will not be successful.
diddling little boys would count. :)
you should just become a priest so you could get away with it
>What would you say is the abomination in that text?
I'll not tax your hermeneutical skills further, they appear to be lacking, as are your general debating skills.
The abomination is to "...lie with a male as with a woman..."
This would suggest to me (and many others) that the behavior is the abomination rather than the person committing the act.
Please save yourself the further effort of proving your inadequate debating skills by personally attacking.
So much to do, so little bandwidth.
--
Try Mozilla
...do they have to develop a 3D accellerator that is compatible with most software (OpenGL, DirectX, etc)? It seems to me that many of the design concepts in this arena are mired up in patents by giants like nVidia and ATI. For instance, doesn't nVidia have 'rights' to per-pixel vertex shader techniques?
Why bother.
The way I interpret those passages is "Always be honest with your buddies, but it's OK to deceive your girlfriend." For example, if your buddy asks what you're doing after work, it would be WRONG not to tell him you're going down to H00ters, but if your girlfriend asks, it's OK to lie and say "I'm working late tonight to make tomorrow's deadline."
What was the license of Wine before the LGPL that would allow WineX to be closed source?
Atto
I didn't use the preview button, so get over it!!!!
Mike
There are many patents related to 3D graphics processing, hold by companies like nVidia, Matrox, ATI (just go to www.uspto.gov and search for your favorite graphics hardware company). And since this are not "software patents", they are already valid around the world. Are these guys considering this?
Q: I grabbed Manticore from CVS, but it won't compile on my x86 1.8 GHz P4.
A: Manticore is a hardware project. You must fabricate the chip using the VHDL files.
Q: Help, I can't get Manticore to fab.
A: Are you using an Applied Materials Silicon Etch DPS II Centura 300 etcher? This is the only machine we have access to, we can't support other models.
Q: I produced a wafer, what next?
A: Many people use a dremel tool to cut the chip to size and mount in a 432-pin test carrier.
Q: Do you have a PCB design for AGP4x?
A: Check the mailing lists, most of the PCB layout guys are quite active there.
Q: I finally have my Manticore graphics card. Where can I find the drivers?
A: We need software developers! See http://www.manticore.org/contribute.html for details
Who's going to manufacturer/produce it? I mean, I certainly do not want to hand build it.
Anyone who's seen Dark Angel will know they produce some damn nice hardware
They can't possibly hope to create something better than what the corporations have come up with... And how are you supposed to fabricate one in any vaguely cost effective manner? Another amazing story of people wasting their time, and you read it right here on slashdot!
I was just kidding, by the way.
is download and compile me up a new videocard. sweet.
And anyway, if you were lying with a man, chances are it wouldn't be "as with" a woman - you'll probably be using a different hole for a start...
While I'm sure this is an admirable project, I'd much rather see icculus rescue me, and remove the only reason I still have a Windows filesystem: Serious Sam. It'd be nice to get AvP, too, but Serious Sam is the one that counts for me. Yeah, I know it's a volunteer effort, but I'd love to see it deliver anyway.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
I don't think Linux needs VGA text mode
But the BIOS does. Without a text mode, many versions of BIOS will refuse to complete POST.
you can compile without any VGA support at all, and assuming you had the appropriate framebuffer driver included, there shouldn't be any problem.
So how will the Linux distributions' installers support the various flavors of display hardware if they can't fall back on text, VGA, or VESA? That'll make for one big a$$ kernel on the install disc.
Will I retire or break 10K?
here
Ok, all that being said, I think this project is a bit out of scope for what these people want to do. There's a really big reason that nVidia and ATI are where they are - capital and large teams of engineers. 'nuff said.
...is some cardboard and a soldering iron. Oh yeah and a degree from ITT Tech.
Well not exactly 3d, but simputer is another hardware project which is released under the modified GPL
And its not just nVidia and ATI, it's even more likely to be earlier 3D players who had more fundamental, less esoteric patents. Companies like Lockheed Martin, SGI and Evans and Sutherland.
In particular, I believe Lockheed Martin had some fundamental patents on texture mapping that I recall were particularly impossible to get around. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of them can confirm or deny that?
--LP
Hey, I think you're doing something pretty cool myself.
What I'd like to see myself is an open Northbridge chip -- memory controller, PCI controller, probably AGP on board -- just so we can get some cheap PowerPC boards out there. I know there's a PCI controller on Opencores.
/Brian
I'd like to see support for really slick hardware alpha acceleration of some sort. I could use that a lot more than extra 3D stuff. Probably so could a lot of business users. Perhaps a good place to start in making something that's cheap and useful.
If you think this is like apache, where it's actually a useful open-source entity, then you are sadly mistaken. It's nothing more than a learning tool. Besides, it's much cheaper to buy a 3D card than compile this and send it to a fab!
I applaud them for getting this far, but it takes hardware companies *years* to get decent hardware and millions of gates to produce useful products. I know, I design 3D hardware.